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BC Global Warming Policies Soon to Be Unveiled
Oil and gas biz, Gateway project said to be untouched.
Premier Campbell: Internal struggle?
After six months of behind-the-scenes discussions on climate change, the provincial government appears ready to announce the first phase of its plans next month.
The government has held a series of meetings on global warming with environmentalists in recent weeks and at least some of the activists have come away impressed.
"There's a huge amount of stuff happening inside government," Guy Dauncey, president of the B.C. Sustainable Energy Association, told The Tyee.
Dauncey said the government appears ready to reveal the first stage of its climate change strategy at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention in Vancouver, Sept. 24-28.
Activists consulted
Dauncey, who met recently with Graham Whitmarsh, the head of the government's Climate Action Secretariat, said he expects the announcement to have a "strong municipal thrust" -- including some sort of municipal planning charter aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions at the local level.
He also said he expects the government to adopt a plan to cap all the province's landfills to capture methane gas. Such a move would be one of the few "quick and easy" steps that can be taken against greenhouse gas emissions, Dauncey said.
While not all environmental groups are enthusiastic about the government's record on global warming, Whitmarsh and Premier Gordon Campbell appear to have earned considerable good will by consulting with activists and promising to involve them in the implementation of their policies.
It was six months ago, on Feb. 13, that the Campbell government embraced the fight against global warming in a dramatic Throne Speech. B.C.'s greenhouse gas emissions will be cut by at least one-third by 2020, the government pledged.
Bold promises, few details
The speech talked about encouraging alternative energy sources and requiring cars to run cleaner. The "hydrogen highway" down the west coast of North America was touted.
Since then, Campbell has held a well-publicized meeting with California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, and the province has joined the Western Regional Climate Action Initiative, an organization of western U.S. states that hopes to set up market-based ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
But there's been little public discussion of how and where, exactly, B.C. plans to cut emissions.
The government has been close-mouthed about its plans, refusing to speak even on background to reporters. The Tyee's call to Whitmarsh for this story was not returned.
'Lot of detailed stuff'
Behind the scenes, though, politicians and bureaucrats have produced "a lot of detailed stuff," Dauncey said.
He said Whitmarsh told him that "one of the long-term staffers said that in 35 years of working in government he'd never seen so much focused energy on one topic before.
"Certainly the cabinet committee's been meeting every single Monday morning, intensively."
The government took some time to get up to speed because Campbell's green conversion "came out of the blue," Dauncey said. "A lot of the cabinet ministers didn't know what was happening at the time."
But Dauncey has no doubt that Campbell's newfound enthusiasm is genuine.
"Without exception, everyone I've met who has met with Gordon Campbell and/or Graham Whitmarsh comes away very impressed about the sincerity and commitment involved," Dauncey said.
Big emitters, big dollars
He said the government is well aware that some of its policies contradict the goal of reducing emissions.
The government's support for the oil and gas industry, as well as the Transportation Ministry's Gateway Program, which would expand highways in the Lower Mainland, are both policies that will tend to increase, rather than reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
"They know full well that these are contradictions and they haven't got an instant way to change that," Dauncey said.
Oil and gas revenues provide $2 billion a year for the B.C. treasury, he noted.
"They don't see a way to replace $2 billion from their income at the moment. You can count that in terms of potential budget surplus or you can count it in terms of hospitals and schools."
The natural gas industry has years of "momentum and inertia" behind it, which will not be easily overcome, Dauncey said. The Gateway Program, which is being energetically pushed by Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon, also has "massive inertia," he said.
'Fantastic meeting'
Members of the Sierra Club of B.C. also met with Whitmarsh about 10 days ago and came away raving.
"I thought it was a fantastic meeting," said Sierra Club executive director Kathryn Molloy. "I'm super-impressed. It was very encouraging to hear some of their ideas that they're working on."
She said she was given the impression that the UBCM meeting will be largely devoted to discussing climate change and that the province is looking at ways to encourage municipalities to develop their own greenhouse gas reduction plans.
Molloy said the Sierra Club will be meeting with the education ministry to discuss the group's involvement in school programs on climate change. And B.C. Hydro wants to work with the Sierra Club on energy conservation.
"At least we feel like we're part of a loop that's happening and that's positive," Molloy said.
Oil industry's threat?
Molloy also said the group is very happy that Whitmarsh has hired longtime environmentalist Louise Comeau for a "public outreach" job at the Climate Action Secretariat.
Comeau, a former president of the Sierra Club of Canada, "understands the issue of climate change and the need for change in government policy and the need to sort of roll that stuff out at the community level," Molloy said.
Like Dauncey, Molloy pointed to the government's treatment of the oil and gas industry and the Gateway Project as examples of policies that don't fit with its new green image.
She said the Sierra Club told Whitmarsh that it would be a "big show of faith" if the government reduced subsidies to the oil and gas industry. She said they were told that the industry has said it will take its business elsewhere if the subsidies dry up.
"I doubt they're going to go somewhere else," she said. "And if they do, well, they'll come back."
Offshore drilling still possible
Molloy said there was little response from government officials when she urged them to come out against offshore oil and gas exploration.
Still, she said, "the fact that they're reaching out and saying 'lets work together' is very encouraging."
Campbell's commitment to fighting climate change appears to be real, she said.
"Word on the street is that the premier has had an epiphany. He has read the book Heat and he's pretty passionate about the issue."
Said Molloy:
"It wouldn't appear that Kevin Falcon has had that epiphany, nor would it appear that our minister of energy and mines has had that epiphany."
Molloy laughed and added:
"It's hard to say -- those two, we may have to drag them along that path."
Eric Swanson, a spokesman for the Dogwood Initiative, was less inclined to give the government the benefit of the doubt.
He said he came away from a meeting with Whitmarsh and Energy Minister Richard Neufeld believing that the government is aware of the contradictions within its policies "but they don't seem to mind.
"The minister is committed to expanding and helping out the oil and gas industry as much as he can," he said.
'Internal struggle'
"The impression I get is that Gordon Campbell has got religion about climate change and the severity of it. I don't think he's joking about his commitments."
On the other hand, Swanson said, "he has a Liberal party which contains elements of the former Reform and Conservative parties -- especially people like Minister Neufeld, who are dyed-in-the wool oil and gas energy supporters."
The contradictions within the government policies reflect the contradictions within the government itself, Swanson said.
"You have people who are committed to these climate change goals because they're important and they're necessary and you have people who are still convinced that subsidies and royalty credits to oil and gas is good for British Columbians.
"You're seeing things that are so obviously contradictory that there has to be some sort of internal struggle and I wouldn't be surprised if Premier Campbell has to deal with those types of issues every day -- just reconciling the more progressive ideas of his government and the carryover ideas from the Conservative-Reform oil and gas-friendly politicians."
Related Tyee stories:
- BC's Emissions Go Down: Why?
Economy jumps. Greenhouse gas levels dip. Weird. - Huge 'Green' Boondoggle?
Critics claim $300 million will be wasted on BC 'clean energy' project. - Campbell's Green-Speak Double Talk
Oil and gas subsidies belie throne speech talk, enviros say. - BC's Deep Emissions Cuts: How?
What it will take to make good on premier's global warming promise. - Secret Energy Plan: Will Campbell Top Schwarzenegger?
BC pushed to match California global warming targets.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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58
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Frank
4 years ago
GC
Campbell read Monbiot's book? He changed his mind about the environment after reading a book? Good for him if its true.
Okay... so when will the rest of the Socreds, like Kevin Falcon, pick up their copies of Monbiot and decide that blacktopping the entire province might be shortsighted?
BC Mary
4 years ago
The 185 new ... NEW spin doctors working less than a year
have succeeded in making making everybody so ... very ... happpy?
tricia58
4 years ago
Epiphany or Lies?
Well I will wait to see what policies Gordon Campbell really comes out with before I believe it.
I am aware that Gordon Campbell can easily lie if that is what he thinks the voters want to hear.
So Gordon lets put a moratorium on offshore oil drilling. Lets see some real action not little actions like no provincial sales tax on energy efficient items.
Skywalker
4 years ago
After all is said and done....
More will be said than done...and by CanWest you won't know what is said and what is done.
Grumpy
4 years ago
Campbell Green?....NOT
To say Campbell is green is like saying Hitler liked Jews. Campbell is a polluting wolf in sheep's clothing. He does know how to manipulate polls and the media.
Gateway - A very dirty project, which is not green.
RAV - The most ungreen of transit projects.
Sea to Sky - not green at all.
BC Rail give away - not green because the provincial government forever tossed away any economical rail solution (much greener than highways) for Whistler.
The hydrogen highway farce - It now looks like that making hydrogen fuel is far from green and is very polluting.
What we have is a very nasty bit of business who is Premier, a corrupted electronic and print media supporting him, selling snake oil (in the vision of Campbell) to the populace.
If only we had a strong opposition, which we do not, could we show the evil twins the door.
jimmy_laroux
4 years ago
IPCC and Liberal Propaganda
That announcement was made just a few days after the IPCC report was published - when a few political points could be scored by giving lip service to the climate change issue while it was still fresh in people's minds - and before any policies aimed at reaching the stated emissions reduction were put in place. They simply announced this goal without any hint of how they were going to go about achieving it. But at the same time as the Liberals were greenwashing their image, they had been planning highway expansion and coal-fired power plants. It seems clear, based on their actions rather than their words, that they have no intention whatsoever of achieving their emissions reduction goal.
skeptikool
4 years ago
Rolls nicely off the tongue
Hydrogen Highway. It rolls nicely off the tongue, but I believe it was conceived more as a link to the 2010 Winter Olympics and a PR boost than to assist the weaning from fossil fuels.
Unfortunately, the demonstration will not come cheap and, being a highly technical matter, most will be fooled until the bills come in and we will be told that, "More research is needed."
There are environmentally benign electricity production methods that are being neglected, or introduced at a trickle. Better that these be fast-tracked coupled with, perhaps, the Electric Highway.
Who knows, GM might even be encouraged to speed up production of its proposed plug-in electric vehicle, and have a fleet of them available for the Game's opening ceremonies.
With so much innovation in green - er vehicle technology coming from offshore, I'd love to be able to buy a home product.
Booker
4 years ago
Heat
I too am surprised that Campbell read Monbiot's Heat. One can only hope that some of Monbiot's politics rubs off on Campbell, but I don't believe in miracles. We'll have to wait and see what Campbell actually does about the environment. As it is now, his record is lousy, and that's all we have to go on so far. On the bright side, this shows that environmentalism is now mainstream and politicians feel the need to at least look like they care.
From David Suzuki's latest Science Matters column:
The issue is not going away and even conservative politicians seem to recognize that.
The brain
4 years ago
Campbell says this, does that. (yawn)
"They don't see a way to replace $2 billion from their income at the moment. - story
Try raising corporate taxes. Our economy is as strong as its going to get... but then, raises from corporate taxes from government lobbiests for corps sluffing themselves off as politicians aren't exactly in the cards.
Sierra club (and only the sierra club) was mentioned. And they like dialogue, the sierra club does? "were going forward with offshore drilling, we'll keep you in the loop." That must be pleasing. "Were building a hydrogen highway". Ah, excuse me, you meant oil burning highway, as that's what the vaste majority of transportation will use. Ocean tankers outside of Kitimat, increases, not decreases in CO2 emmissions and CO2 resources such as coal and oil & gas being shipped abroad, don't do much for the fight against global warming.
Campbells government is typical with a say this, do that, mentality. I guess it works for the Sierra club, so says Tom Barrett.
And they do. Instead of corps like exxon spending big money to "deny, deny, deny" the science, its onto "say this and do that". Seems to work so far, specially for the sierra club and voters loyal to corporate lobbiests. And its all getting very old.
Stump
4 years ago
follow the money (along the new roads)
About the same time the Road Builders Association and New Car Dealers AREN'T two of the ProvLibs biggest campaign contributors?
bob the cat
4 years ago
Phew Gords all over it
Gords on it...what a relief..now we`ll all be ok..thought for awhile I might have to cut back on my shopping.
skeptikool
4 years ago
ICBC could do much to help.
With extremely high profits being reported, ICBC could do much to reduce vehicle pollution by allowing owners to transfer licence plates between vehicles.
An owner would, of course, be required to pay the highest premium of, say, the two vehicles owned, but could then choose to do the commute in the SmartCar or Pontiac Firefly rather than the family SUV.
A columnist writes, today, that B.C.'s NDP Opposition has been caught napping on the greenhouse-gas emissions issue. Right or wrong, I believe transferable insurance is a scheme that the NDP should promote and one that would receive wide support.
That a public insurance company should be making such profit is another matter, but one requiring vigorous examination and debate.
freebear
4 years ago
All talk Still More of the Same!
Its greenwash!
I do not think 'we' will deal with climate change as 'we' seem addicted to physical growth as it also is the foundation of 'our' economy.
With no vision for the future articulated by any government, but more of the same!
'We' need a benevolent alien species to visit us and take all our fossil fuels (fools!) away with them!
bob the cat
4 years ago
Lookin` Good!
If ya gotta read a book to know..like ya don`t feel the uv on your skin..the stark white glare of it..
how things grow...50 years of successful gardening and now things don`t wanna grow right monsanto seeds and.. the bizarro weather..
theres something quite wrong with our earth now isn`t there?
If ya can`t feel it in the bone ya gotta be numb..
or have chosen to be dumb boyo
..watch the birds awhile and listen up boyo.
Biological collapse..it ain`t gonna be pretty..no more water.. its the fire next time
and the free flesh market ain`t gonna see ya through this one.
If I were a religious man I`d say he who walks to and fro upon this earth has done his work well...the seeds long ago sown.
Suicide seeds...how deliciously anti life evil
alive
4 years ago
Spin is everwhere!
One example is the Global TV traffic rapport, notice how everything is moving along just excellent, with only minor delays?
Such an upbeat tone to that lately! I bet that is a part of making us all feel so good.
I wonder how the people actually stuck in traffic feels?
IAMC
4 years ago
Buzz
Buzz Hargrove is calling for the defeat of our Finance Minister, because the latest fedral budget offered Canadians a $2,000.00 rebate to those that by energy efficient, low emmission automobiles. This, apparently threatens the Ontario auto industry.
The Premier of Ontario, who is facing an upcoming election, is also afraid to upset the auto industry ( votes, votes, votes )
Now I had hoped that we could get something useful out of this climate change hysteria, perhaps cars that saved us gas money, and polluted less.
Why not simply build cars in Canada that are low emmission?
What part of this am I misunderstanding?
By the way. Exon Mobile only has 3% of the world market of oil products.
The so called deniers of climate change are out financed by 30 billion dollars compared to the funding that goes into the religion of " Man made global warming "
Give me a break Mr. Gore, in a year nobody will remember who you were.
Mainstream public does not believe the media on hardly anything. They see the liberal bias.
Polls of British and North American citizens, show that hardly anyone believes in this religion, led by Al Gore.
The science is never settled, or it wouldn't be science.
Why will none of these crackpots willing to debate this subject?
It's not true. Carbon is not a problem.
More of us are learning about water vapour and methane.
frank2
4 years ago
Off-loading again?
"Dauncey, who met recently with Graham Whitmarsh, the head of the government's Climate Action Secretariat, said he expects the announcement to have a "strong municipal thrust" -- including some sort of municipal planning charter aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions at the local level."
Is anyone surprised that the province will require improved environmentalperformance by local governments, while gaily continuing its own most egregious environmental offenses (energy subsidies, Gateway, forest disaster, fighting offshore gas/oil moratorium, Flathead coal, etc., etc.)?
The surprise will be if voters oppose this hypocrisy.
G West
4 years ago
Hello Ron, you've not been around much lately?
"...our Finance Minister"
I thought you were a Libertarian Ron, what's this new identification with the CPC?
skeptikool
4 years ago
"The enemy of my enemy..." needs review
Interesting, IAMC, but puzzling.
While Al Gore and Buzz Hargrove appear anathema to each other, you appear to be attacking both.
True, if the N.American auto industry does not produce the affordable, alternate vehicles to its current, polluting gas-guzzlers, they will be bought from whatever source makes them available.
The writing's on the wall. Buzz and his members should get behind the increasing public demand. There need be no threat to jobs.
Not a day too soon, it's encouraging to read that GM will shortly be testing its Volt plug-in vehicle. After decades, the industry, with all its resources, may deliver a product that many backyard mechanics have been able to produce.
ov
4 years ago
more local?
Yeah, right. I'll believe that when they scrap their plans to take the translink board from local to provincial jurisdiction which is primarily so they won't be bound by the livable regions agreement.
Nice poem Bob.
lynn
4 years ago
It ain't easy being green...or maybe it is
hmmmmm...didn't a guy named Mulroney use exactly this tactic when he co-opted the environmental movement into his corporate dreams and schemes? He made them insiders in the corporate process, insiders in the corruption, and thus slyly diluted and compromised their power, not to mention the effectiveness of their right to protest. How could they protest their own complicity - what they, themselves, were now a part of?
'Course, co-option isn't possible without the wide-eyed gullibility, not to mention vanity of those like Mr. Dauncey, Ms. Malloy et al. Ahhh, the rush that comes from being so close to the inner sanctum that often wields power (even if it is a totally corrupt and running-on-empty inner sanctum). Gawd to be so up close and personal to the mere dazzling proximity of it all... just too enticing for some, I guess.... all those uber-friendly "one-for-all" and "all-for-one" gov/eco-musketeer meetings, all those so-called environmental round tables of so-called environmental consultation. "Ah, the carefully-crafted allure of it all" said the spider to the fly.
So I finally (and sadly) get it. I guess green just doesn't mean what it once did. The word is just a hi-jacked brand now. A cleverly crafted image backed with with no substance or details. This is nouveau (read "easier") environmentalism - environmentalism for dummies... and hypocrites .....voila!.... Gordo's Club Enviro:
... the club that presently has logging trucks plying our highways like ants on an anthill
... the club that has left clearcut scars on our hillsides you can apparently see from the moon,
...the club that has caused a profuse blooming of signs on the front lawns of homes in the coastal town I live by - protesting the recent creation of a massive landfill dump brimming with deadly dioxins, threatening the health and safety of the people who have lived here for years.
...the club that has is now threatening to remove hundreds of prime agricultural land in this same lovely coastal town out of the ALR for the development of a private airport, gated community and private golf course...who needs food anyway?
...the club that is turning the BC coastline into an industrial highway of deadly cargo.
Btw, does Gordo's Club Enviro come with its own designer logo t-shirt ? (The label's gotta read: 100% pure polyester).
Does it come with "eco-friendly" airmiles with proof of purchase?
It's the new green, after all.
Don't worry, be eco-happy.
Moosebeer
4 years ago
Just a bunch of hot air
All the discussions, cabinet meetings, trips to California to see Arnold, etc is a waste of energy. If we could only tap into that renewable energy source and use it to heat our homes then we may be able to meet our obligations under the Kyoto Accord?
For 15 years we have had a global warming problem and we still do not have any effective policies in place to address it. This is a simple exercise to gain votes for the upcoming election.
ov
4 years ago
Lynn
:-)
Talent like that deserves a column.
ME2
4 years ago
re: it ain't easy being green....or maybe it is.
Thanks for saying it so well, Lynn.
Enviros like the redoubtable Mr Dauncey, and organisations like the BC Sierra Club no doubt believe that now that Gordo has seen the light, they of all people are best suited to shine that light on the proper path for him.
Whatever else you might think of Gordo, you'd be a fool to call him stupid. Look at how he's manipulated the enviros into becoming merely querulous little puppies regarding forest issues. Look at how deftly he's lifted a couple hundred acres of ALR land while leaving the NDP helpless to protest.
Global warming "action" is going to be a piece of cake. All he'll need is a few more enviro appointments, a couple of well-paid "advisory" committees, a good PR firm, and he'll have 'er made.
lynn
4 years ago
thanks ov and ME2
thanks ov and ME2. I haven't posted for awhile so I thought I had rambled on waaaay too long.
ME2, I think you are bang on in your observations about the cleverly sly manipulations taking place PR-wise, piece of cake-wise, ;-) to give the appearance of action on global warming. PR, real estate and property development...they are the invisible ministries of this so-called government.
Those who fall for the false allure of Gordo's Club Enviro (the one replete with clearcuts, toxic landfills, a disappearing ALR, trains that de-rail regularly spilling their contents into our rivers, a malignant growth of pipelines criss-crossing our province, hardly a park warden to be found these days, the selling of control of our rivers, power and water rights), bring to mind the lines from Goldie Hawn's character in the movie Private Benjamin where spoiled rich girl Judy Benjamin puzzles over how she enlisted in the "wrong" army. I think she says something like she thought she joined she joined the army "with the condos and the private rooms."
RickW
4 years ago
Global Warming Policy.......
.....why, we've gad a global warming policy for centuries now........and it's the one that Campbell & Co. fully intend to keep following.
RickW
4 years ago
Global Warming Policy.......
.....why, we've had a global warming policy for centuries now........and it's the one that Campbell & Co. fully intend to keep following.
North of Hope
4 years ago
Molley said, "Word on the
Molley said, "Word on the street is that the premier has had an epiphany. He has read the book Heat and he's pretty passionate about the issue." If an NDP member had such a change of heart, it would be called a flip-flop. We have a system that treats our politicians differently and the NDP unfairly. Look at some of Campbell's other flip-flops. 1st the sale of BCRail. In the 90's he said he would sell it and lost an election. For the next election, he said he would not sell it and when he won, he sold it. He screamed about the unfairness of the way the NDP tried to settle land claims and proposed a referendum on the topic to try to squelch any such deal. He flipped again and started to negotiate with the First Nations. He attacked public sector unions then flipped again when the teachers stood up to him. And he flipped on the green issue. He became so green that he flew to California to have a photo-op with California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. If he was truly green he would have travelled in a much more environmentally friendly way, maybe by riding an ass.
The question is, what is he up to? His main purpose is to hold onto power. As it turns out, it doesn't matter if the unions get a slight increase in wages or First Nations get a treaty. If he has power then he can do the work he was chosen to do back in the 90's when Gorden Wilson was driven out of the leadership of the BC Liberals, he will work for his supporters in big business, including those of CanWest Global. CanWest supports him and trashes anyone who runs against him. The small gains that the workers and First Nations have made are small in comparision to the gains Big Business has made. And we will pay the price for it. For example, just wait until those river hydro projects come on-line. The cost of hydro will start to skyrocket.
Lula
4 years ago
Agree with the above comments and more
A Cambell greenwash!! No mention of the Gateway project paving over the ALR, polluting communities along the way. No mention of the Deltaport expansion - may he should read "The Long Emergency" by Kunstler. then he would wonder why he is building all these polluting mega projects.
Hydrogen Highway!! More likely a super highway, with traintracks, a truck highway and pipelines carrying our electricity, oil, gas and water down to the USA.
See what happens with the new "Security and Prosperity Partnership" agreement being secretly negotiated between Canada, the US and Mexico in late August when our esteemed leaders meet!!
Gordon's environmental ideas are just the icing at the top of an ugly pyramid.
Join the protestors against Gateway and the Port Expansion. We were out there today when the port did its PR for Delta, and we need more bodies to write letters and protest.
BC Mary
4 years ago
When Gordo goes to the Montebello Summit, as he surely will
On August 20 - 21, when Stephen Harper, George Bush, and Filipe Calderon meet at the Chateau Montebello, Quebec, for their third Summit on the Security and Prosperity Partnership -- that's when Gordon Campbell will show his true colours. And his true colours aren't green, never have been green, and probably never will be green. How could they be?
Trouble is, the Montebello SPP discussions will be behind closed doors. And the press, such as it is, probably won't even get near the elegant big log chateau.
Nevertheless, it's there that the CEOs of 31 of the planet's wealthiest corporations, including Canadian National Railway, will hammer out The Treaty in such a way as to fulfill their own corporate dreams. And what they want is more traffic, more products, more profits. But it's all secret. Gordo likes it that way. So does Steve.
So Gordon Campbell would be right in his element at the Montebello Summit on SPP. He'll attend -- even if he has to go disguised as a waiter. Because the SPP embodies his dreams of turning B.C. into big highways, big railways, bigger ports, bigger oil, more stuff for sale ...
If in his golden years Gordo ever yearns for green landscapes, I figure he'll head back to Maui, richly content.
Cynic
4 years ago
I'm appalled at all this
I'm appalled at all this negativity! As it is so obvious to see, Gordon Campbell is most genuinely and patently passionate and truly really genuinely concerned about the green environment! I mean, just look at him! See the bottomless concern that radiates from his divine face! See how he struggles to entice us to join with him in this wonderful new movement to finally care for our replaceless green surroundings! I love his beautiful green words! I know now that all will be! Praise be, Green Gordon!
willy
4 years ago
Co2 global warming, bad
Co2 global warming, bad science. Wasting money chasing C02 is taking funds away from other enviromental causes. A whole industry is developing, chasing C02 and these people
do not want to lose their industry or funding. Facts and truths are being distorted by these industries and scientists. Al Gore and his Inconvient Truth is a money making distortion
of truth and facts. This Hollywood movie is being show in schools as fact, when in truth everypart of it has been torn apart with real science. Here are links with real science
behind them. Checks the facts before commenting.
http://www.john-daly.com/guests.htm
http://www.john-daly.com/index.htm
http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=1
http://www.warwickhughes.com/cool/cool13.htm
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,357366,00.html
http://www.ecoworld.com/home/articles2.cfm?tid=411
http://www.lomborg.com/
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA235.html
http://bruderheim-rea.ca/warming10.htm
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-02/uow-gno021207.php
http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/wm1403.cfm
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Christopher_C._Horner
http://webforums.pressdemocrat.com/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=1785
http://sidc.oma.be/index.php
http://digg.com/videos/educational/Man_made_Global_Warming_false_See_the_other_side_of_the_argument
http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/global_warming.html
http://www.everythingiknowiswrong.com/2004/11/two_sides_to_gl.html
http://www.imcool.com/articles/Enviro/Part2IsEarthWarmingSignificantly.php
http://www.imcool.com/articles/Enviro/Part2IsEarthWarmingSignificantly.php
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/Index.jsp
http://www.junkscience.com/
http://www.friendsofscience.org/
skeptikool
4 years ago
Willy, You ask too much
After you provide 22 links, you ask that we, check the facts before commenting. Your first link then provided 77 links. Really!
I fear I would not be among the living and that this thread would have disappeared from the board in attempting to meet your request.
There are some who wish to retain the status quo. I'm not among them.
It isn't junk science. We have soiled our nest and continue to do so and are paying the price.
The attack on Al Gore is politically driven - even to the extent of exploiting the misfortune of his mildly miscreant son to smear the father.
bob the cat
4 years ago
space debris
willy..is the ever growing "seal" around the planet of homo sapien launched debris hurtling round the earth at incredible speed
an example of junk science?
We`re sealing ourselves in dude.
Excellent post skeptikool..definitely a besto!
Capitalism
4 years ago
Wrong Direction
There is too much of an emphasis on Global Warming. While I think it is important, we as a province, shouldn't be tailoring our environmental policy to it. Carbon emissions should be one piece of a much larger plan. The focus should be sustainability. Unfortunately, the enviros have really bungled this one.
The reason - it is called global warming for a reason. BC is such a inconsequential part of the Globe that even if we shut our economy down, we wouldn't even impact global carbon emissions.
Does this mean we shouldn't be doing our part? No. However, we are getting far to carried away with the term "Global Warming".
G West
4 years ago
Life expectancy
The life expectancy of a traffic cop in China is 43 years...and falling.
Ever wonder why Cappy?
That's where we're headed if people don't pull their heads out of their bums soon.
Wake up and smell the smog - it's killing us all.
No links to those ‘facts’ in Willy’s list I see; and much of that smog comes from our coal…the basis, partly, of our prosperity.
Harold Steves
4 years ago
municipal thrust
I am "delighted" that Gordon Campbell is going to give a boost to municipalities with a "strong municipal thrust"
A "municipal planning charter to reduce greenhouse gasses at the local level" could give local government the power to scrap Gateway,stop the Delta Port expansion, provide public transit, and save the ALR.
On the other hand a "strong municipal thrust" could simply mean local government is screwed again.
G West
4 years ago
Harold
Don't hold your breath!
mopled
4 years ago
CO2 not pollution
I guess you all haven't heard the news that 1934 turns out to be the hottest year of the 20th century....the Dust Bowl didn't happen because it was cold.
After 1942 it cooled down again until the recent re-warming. It's part of a natural cycle which we might begin to understand if all the research money wasn't going to support a totaly false hypothesis.
Man-made Global Warming is a scam...of course Gordo supports it.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=61b0590f-c5e6-4772-8cd1-2fefe0905363&p=1
jimmy_laroux
4 years ago
Capitalism: Quote:The focus
Capitalism:
Define "sustainability". Are the concepts of "climate-change" and "sustainability" mutually exclusive (or at least unrelated) in your mind?
If all of BC were to stop emitting carbon into the atmosphere, it certainly would have an impact.
"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." - Voltaire
mopled
4 years ago
I guess you haven't heard
the good news. The Global Warming thing is caput for reasons I can only give you a taste of.
One of the nicest things about the unmasking of what is the most outrageous officially sanctioned fraud I've ever seen, is that a Canadian helped drive the stake through the vampire's heart. AGW/CC was shaping up to be a real blood-sucker.
Steve McIntyre's site has been swamped so he posted his lengthy discussion of the issues here:
http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/2007/08/does_hansens_error_matter_gues.html
I recommend also looking at and exploring:
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/Index.jsp
180 Years of atmospheric CO 2 Gas Analysis by Chemical Methods
ENERGY & ENVIRONMENT VOLUME 18 No. 2, 2007
http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2_supp.htm
Oh, the Exxon bit was denounced by Newsweek
in an editorial about last weeks article called "Global Warming Hoax" about Denialism.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20226462/site/newsweek/page/0/
Speaking of which there are 29 articles about real, unbought scientists who have tried to stand up to the juggernaut available at the National Post, which on this one at least,has taken the correct
position. It's called the Deniers and is usually found under climate change on the front page of the site.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/environment/story.html?id=4432a41c-7c52-4b74-934e-f0dac3b2bcb8
mopled
4 years ago
As for Gordo the Good
I forgot to ask, did you really think he was finally being a responsible statesman?
G West
4 years ago
same old same old mopled
I wondered how long it would take you to light your pants on fire over Nasa's arithmetic.
Not that it matters a tinker's damn in the face of the hurricane.
mopled
4 years ago
Did you bother to examine
the evidence I posted? I didn't think so. Science is not supposed to be about belief.
Here's something you might find fascinating.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070814/NATION02/108140063
Before Gore
D.C. resident John Lockwood was conducting research at the Library of Congress and came across an intriguing Page 2 headline in the Nov. 2, 1922 edition of The Washington Post: "Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt."
The 1922 article, obtained by Inside the Beltway, goes on to mention "great masses of ice have now been replaced by moraines of earth and stones," and "at many points well-known glaciers have entirely disappeared."
"This was one of several such articles I have found at the Library of Congress for the 1920s and 1930s," says Mr. Lockwood. "I had read of the just-released NASA estimates, that four of the 10 hottest years in the U.S. were actually in the 1930s, with 1934 the hottest of all."
Worth pondering
Reacting yesterday to word that certain European governments and officials are suddenly trying to abandon their costly "global warming" policies, Royal Astronomical Society fellow Benny Peiser, of the science faculty at Liverpool John Moores University in Great Britain, recalls the teachings of Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
G West
4 years ago
You'd be surprised at what I've read
But, as I wrote here about a month ago - it's a waste of time talking to a true believer...
But this, this is kind of fun:
NASA weather error sparks global warming debate
By Austin Modine in Mountain View
Published Tuesday 14th August 2007 20:28 GMT
Conservative blogs were alight last week when they turned up an error in NASA's methods for recording US temperatures. As a result, it has been concluded that 1934, not 1998, was America's hottest year on record.
The problem was caught when blogger, Stephen McIntyre (http://www.climateaudit.org/) of Climate Audit, crunched the numbers from NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies for himself. McIntyre found that apparently an error was affecting the data for the years 2000 through 2006.
Or more accurately, after 1999, the data wasn't being fractionally adjusted to compensate for the time of day or location from where the data was being gathered. McIntyre emailed his discovery to NASA's Goddard Institute, which prompted the data review.
The data correction reduced the mean US temperature by about 0.15 ºC for the years 2000 through 2006, for an average of 0.66 ºC. The news was a delight to global warming naysayers — such as the conservative blogger Noel Sheppard (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/08/13/how-important-nasa-s-change-historical-climate-data-last-week) at NewsBusters —who claimed it refutes a key tenet of the global warming "myth" advanced by Al Gore that nine of the ten warmest years in history have occurred since 1995. They also claim the lack of coverage on the mistake indicates a liberal media cover-up.
The new top 10 hottest years in the US are: 1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938 and 1939.
Global warming skeptics point out that now four of the country's 10 warmest years were in the 1930s.
NASA officials, however, have called the changes trivial to spotting a global warming trend. The US covers only a small fraction of the globe, and the resulting change to the world's mean temperature is on the order of one-thousandth of a degree. NASA climate modeler Gavin Schmidt (http://mediamatters.org/items/200708120001?f=h_latest) points out that longer term US averages have not changed rank. The years 2002-2006 were still warmer than 1924-1930. In the global mean, 2005 remains the warmest.
Never-the-less, we welcome back the returning champion of hot, 1934. This little firecracker was the height of the American dust bowl. Boy was it hot.
How hot was it?
It was so hot, swimming pools caught fire. It was so hot, people poured coffee on their laps to cool down. It was so hot, musicians were snorting ice cubes. It was so hot, catastrophic dust storms caused major ecological and agricultural damage that left over 500,000 Americans homeless. It was so...*ahem* oh. Yeah, that last one was kind of a bummer... ®
mopled
4 years ago
read it again
Steve McIntyre is not just a blogger. He's a geologist who has been a science reviewer for the IPCC.
http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/2007/08/does_hansens_error_matter_gues.html
"There’s been quite a bit of publicity about Hansen’s Y2K error and the change in the U.S. leaderboard (by which 1934 is the new warmest U.S. year) in the right-wing blogosphere. In contrast, realclimate has dismissed it a triviality and the climate blogosphere is doing its best to ignore the matter entirely.
My own view has been that matter is certainly not the triviality that Gavin Schmidt would have you believe, but neither is it any magic bullet. I think that the point is significant for reasons that have mostly eluded commentators on both sides."
Realclimate is an intellectual ghetto run by a PR firm and is nothing but spin.
Facts like we experienced far more warming
80 years ago and then got colder again destroy the whole greenhouse hypothesis. We just were not making that much CO2 then to have made any difference....as if less than 1/2 of 1% of a trace gas like CO2, which is the total amount in the atmosphere, could have any effect at all. Never mind that human contribution to that 1/2 of 1% is only 2-5% of it.
The Medieval Warm Period was also much warmer than now. Realclimate tried to dismiss it as a "local" event, but archeology has turned up evidence from all over the world that there was a global effect.
More severe climate change in the 1920's has been known and ignored by the devious Climate Cult with which you seem to identify.
G West
4 years ago
So he's a geologist/blogger!
Hooray
mopled
4 years ago
You left out IPCC Reviewer
Up to your old tricks...obfuscation by quick come back. My question to you is, is there a place where Left Gatekeepers go for training?
Romeogolf
4 years ago
Re: Wrong Direction
Such is the tragedy of the commons if everyone acts on that basis; the United States and Australia currently adopt this position, which is why China can get away with thumbing its nose at the rest of the world.
Sustainability is certainly the way to go. I would not include the Oil Sands, coal, and the Gateway Project under that umbrella.
We need to completely redefine our lifestyles. Actually, it's nothing new. We can find it in our traditions. Seems simple, but the elite have such an entrenched interest in enriching themselves from unsustainable waste, it will require a massive fight to overturn. Unless, of course, the individual consumer, en masse, completely changes their consumption patterns to living within a sustainable footprint.
Barring an ecological collapse, I'm hesitant to believe this will happen within a decade. It may only come with our children.
Romeogolf
4 years ago
Re: CO2 not pollution
Is the overall warming trend now in dispute mopled? No.
Weather does not equal climate -- same confusion.
mopled
4 years ago
Yes it's warming
But the point is, it has been WARMER within the last 2000 years at least 3x. It never ran away.....and we weren't making much CO2.
Get it!
Now combine that with the whole of the Solar System warming simultaneously with Earth. Then the fact that there are no coal fired plants or SUVs on Pluto, just as there were none here during the Roman Warm Period, nor the Medieval Warm Period.
What have you got? Well depending on how generous you want to be, I think there was either a giant misunderstanding of physics and geology or a scam was perpetrated.
More and more evidence is being presented that cycles which we barely understand govern climate change. Just today an Austalian scientist was reported to have found a missing piece of the puzzle of ocean heat circulation. Climate Science is in its infancy.
Here's some compelling evidence that there is little correlation between temperature and CO2 over the long haul.
http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html
Scroll down to graph:
Global Temperature and Atmospheric CO2 over Geologic Time
G West
4 years ago
well I think it's very interesting
That NASA has to achieve THIS kind of accuracy:
" after 1999, the data wasn't being fractionally adjusted to compensate for the time of day or location from where the data was being gathered."
Or all their conclusions are meant to be worthless – when in fact this current kafuffle is about nothing more than US temperatures - while little Timmy Ball, who for some time was the main Canadian Anti-global warming guru, can be feted like a prophet on the basis of a couple of hundred years of third party temperature observations made by a handful of half-literate Hudson's Bay Company clerks at two or three fur trading posts in Rupert's Land.
Sheesh! I mean, what portion of the earth’s total surface is occupied by the United States anyway?
You do deserve an answer to that question about Gordon Campbell. The answer is NO.
His commitment to saving the planet is about as sincere and meaningful as Arnie's.
mopled
4 years ago
Quite simply we were told
we were "burning up" because of 1998. It was SUPPOSED to be an UNPRECeDENTED warming.
It's wasn't. We've been warmer and then it got cold again.
What part of that don't you get?
You also seem to forget that it's not all of NASA, it's Goddard GISS, where the well awarded and re-warded James Hansen holds sway. I think Gavin Schmidt of realclimate is also part of the Goddard crew.
Did you catch the interview with the head of NASA who got chewed out by Hansen for going against the "consensus"?
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=2271ac23-6895-4789-9da0-6b28968b8d15
It's part of Laurence Solomon's series, The Deniers, but then I don't suppose you bothered to read any of them.
G West
4 years ago
Like I said earlier - you'd be surprised at what I read
I even read the hated National Post mopled - just so I can be up on what the dissemblers are saying.
Unlike the federal Cabinet and the chairman of the Commons Committee - I don't shut down and stop listening when someone arrives with news I don't happen to agree with. If you make a good point, I'll acknowledge it.
You haven't yet!
mopled
4 years ago
Then there is no hope for you
The information is all there for anyone to begin the journey of discovery on mass deception and media complicity.
CO2 is like "the magic bullet" that killed Kennedy or the jet fuel fires that brought down the towers on 9/11....none of them had/have the physical (in the sense of physics) capacity for doing the job. Totally impossible for all three.
G West
4 years ago
Bwah.....ha..ha..ha.haa
How you can be so credulous in some matters and such a skeptic in others is truly amazing. Must be tough to be you; always believing the world is run by some dark global conspiracy of nasty folks who meet in darkened rooms and plot the future of the world. You and murdock should get together.
Strange, truly strange: A little knowledge is, as they've always said, sometimes a dangerous thing.
mopled
4 years ago
They meet at some of the
finest places in broad daylight...like Chateau Montebello, the Council on Foreign Relations..(which just inducted Angelina Jolie, I suppose to give them credibility as humans. like Leonardo with Gore, and Bono and Paul Martin.) Oh yes, then there are the annual Bilderberg Conferences, they meet at such lovely places and even people like David Frum get invited, along with Arnie S.and Blair...and all before they were apponted to high positions.
Now I know you might argue that Arnie and Blair were elected, but should you, I'd like to show you my collection of bridges for sale.
There are lots of overlapping conspiracies. WMD's? Remember?
Your beloved AN ARAB IN A CAVE DONE IT is a conspiracy,(except he didn't do it) History is a record of high ranking gansters engaged in conspiracies. Google Al Gore+ Maurice Strong. Then Molten Metals.
Since it has ever been thus, and smart psychopaths are ever with us, I don't have a problem dealing it. It's just reality.
mopled
4 years ago
CO2 out; "synchronized chaos" in
http://www.dailytech.com/Major+New+Theory+Proposed+to+Explain+Global+Warming/article8450.htm
http://www.uwm.edu/%7Eaatsonis/
"Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt" --Washington Post headline, November 2, 1922.
If there was any doubt that fear-mongering has long been cherished by the media, the above headline should put the question to bed. But that 80-year old news story also illustrates two of the great problems for the global warming theory -- its inability to explain sudden climate shifts in the Earth's past, and to explain why the Northern and Southern Hemispheres are so unequally affected by warming.
A team of mathematicians have come forth with a startling new theory that solves both these problems. Led by Dr. Anastasios Tsonis, their model says the known cycles of the Earth's oceans -- the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the North Atlantic Oscillation, El Nino (Southern Oscillation) and the North Pacific Oscillation -- all tend to try to synchronize with each other.
The theory is based on a branch of mathematics known as Sychronized Chaos. The math predicts the degree of coupling to increase over time, causing the solution to "bifurcate," or split. Then, the synchronization vanishes. The result is a climate shift.
(cont'd at site)