What I find amazing in this day and age is that we are so desensitized to what is actually degrading to people. So much is accepted as normal moral behaviour. If you do not feel good about something being said or done to you, and you do not feel as though you could walk away feeling as though that person has just contributed to your life and survival or you to theirs, then something may be wrong. I am not advocating that we must be in an overly politically correct society but decency, respect, integrity and simple morals are all that is needed.

I do not think that the above person who posted has seen the video and if you have, maybe it would be a good time to reflect and possibly re-evaluate your standard of the above decent human attributes that are generally sought after by respectable and upstanding citizens with leadership qualities in our communities because they truly display the above mentioned qualities.

I saw the video and it disgusted me I have seen people display this type of behaviour in the early 70's when the rights of different races were being trampled on and people looked the other way, a time when this kind of behaviour was displayed. We live in a different world now, and when you know better you cannot turn your back and pretend you do not know. No one can tell me today that it is okay to publicly over a microphone tell a woman that she needs breast augmentation. And this is just the tip of the iceberg for what else was said on the "Telus Idol" video.

Corrections

The "supposedly inapropriate behaviour" was definitely not supposed it was very real and quite disturbing particularily if you are of the female gendre.

Futhermore to some corrections as well it was not the unionists who leaked the information about the "Telus Idol" fiasco it was a Telus spokesperson who leaked it to the public. The Telecommunication Workers Union, TWU had made an agreement to keep the "Telus Idol" video under wraps for the good of bargaining. This "Telus Idol" video has been around for more that a year. So I would think that the leak of the video really should have happened in February 2004 after the event took place. Not only that after the event happened in January apparently (only rumor) the staff members who did not attend the event were emailed and told to watch the "Telus Idol" video.

As far as I am concerned the whole management team right from the top are disrespectful and deserve to loose their jobs. When this type of behaviour is displayed as publicly as this was and made okay by the CEO on down. This is not a good indicator as to the type of people that are supposedly the leaders the ones to look up to for direction. This is like a cancer and IMO this will not leave until there is a house cleaning this was not a supposedly innocent bunch of boys at a stag but they acted like they were at a stag and it was a mixed audience. Where were their leadership skills and their moral values???

So Scylla when commenting in any forum it would be IMHO a good thing to get the facts straight before you comment glibbly.

Backatcha, what I find amazing in this day and age is that there are still some people in the world who insist on speaking for everyone else. You seem to be one of those people. I suggest you stop doing this.

If you are offended by something, fine; say you are offended. Do not try to say that I am offended. You don’t even know me.

“The "supposedly inapropriate behaviour" was definitely not supposed it was very real and quite disturbing particularily if you are of the female gendre.”

Especially, do not try to speak for every female! Some of the rest of us will hand you your head for trying.

It very much looks like no one will ever see this video again, as it has been pulled from every site that used to have it. Pity. I’ve seen opinions on all sides of this issue, but I’d like to be able to see it for myself so I can make up my own mind.

If anyone knows where to find a copy of the video that we can watch, would you please post the information?

Backatcha... your points are excellent!!!

It is both amazing and appalling to see that people still have the audacity to call behavior such as what is clearly evident on the Telus Idol video "supposedly 'inappropriate'"... What on earth is wrong with people these days? It is as though in this "anything goes" culture we now live in, people are abjectly refusing to call immoral and lewd sexual misconduct what it is and have to attach a euphemism to it in order to cram it down the throats of those of us who can call something EXACTLY what it is... If you pile cherries on top of a bucket of manure, that doesn't make it a sundae!!!

The video is evidence of a strongly sexist mentality in the Telus Command Centre. The fact that no one will comment on the "appropriate discipline" that was meted out to the offending executive means there wasn't any and YOU can take THAT to the bank...

In my first year with Telus, our social committee planned a company social function at a cabaret where partially-clad female servers are part of the draw of the cabaret itself. Employees who are "under-sized" in the chest area are encouraged to have augmentations and it is well known that many employees go ahead and have surgery.

At the time I learned of the venue of the event being planned, I approached the Social Committee to state that I found their choice of venue, objectionable! I advised them that this choice would, prevent me from enjoying that evening with my colleagues and I felt that it was a very poor choice of social venue from a public perspective as well. If I would not choose to go to such a place on a private evening out, I certainly am not going to go there for a "company" function.

The Committee responded that I could choose to go or not to go and that was the end of it. I was treated with disdain and a bit of ridicule for the values I hold that they saw as being my "stuffiness". The evening went ahead as planned and I found something else to do...

I have always felt that when I am employed by a company, I represent that company as I go about my personal life. I have honoured my employers by applying higher standards of behavior to my personal life and being a lady of considerable integrity.

I am deeply resentful of an executive who upon being publicized for their nasty, lewd behavior, saw fit to impose an ethical standards course on those of us who already have ethical standards when they obviously do not.

And I am sick to death of hearing the words "allegedly" or "supposedly" when the whole sordid mess was documented by video...

This whole situation surrounding Telus Idol has little to do with the Company and Union negotiations we as bargaining unit members expect the Company to enter but it has VERY MUCH to do with the climate of "anything goes" they have established for the executives in our workplace!

Silken

Ok. The Union Leader's name is Hope Cumming? That's offensive and I shouldn't have to put up with it.

The video, which I have no reason to believe has been reported in accurately, may be offensive and troublesome but is it worth screwing with the entire province's economy?

File a harassment suit; take some grievance action. Do NOT shut down the entire phone company.

I just want my friggin' DSL.

Gryphonrider... Try as I might, I cannot see where Backatcha said that she was speaking for "all women" or even for you! She said, it was "quite disturbing particularily if you are of the female gendre [sic]". I am assuming that Backatcha is female due to her writing style but... she has as much right to speak out as you do. Since the video documented male executives making sexually-lewd comments to the females who performed in that video, I fail to see why anyone should have to "pretend" that it was anything else.

You say, "some of the rest of us will hand you your head for trying"... It is true that women who don't mind being sexually-exploited as long as it earns them money will object to anything that may interfere with their bread and butter! However, those of you who think you are going to "hand anyone their heads" without intervention from those of us who believe in our right to dignity and respectful treatment are sorely mistaken.

You can't find the Telus Idol video because Telus is a powerful company that is controlling what YOU can see in the same way as their advertising dollars are preventing SOME of the media from providing objective coverage of the lockout.

Do you get IT yet???

Silken

Of course you do Darcy and we should all be willing to suffer indecent treatment at the hands of our employers so that you can have your DSL...

Read up on the issues and ask the Company why they wish to have the right to screw with not just the provincial but our NATIONAL economy!

The lockout IS NOT... I repeat IS NOT.. related to the Telus Idol video...

Silken

To get the video use the peer to peer program e-donkey (get it from shareware sites), and search on Telus Idol. Two versions are available (mpg and avi), but they take some time to download. The video is very bad quality.

Let's not forget that Telus is a Corporation and their shares are listed on the stock exchange. They have to make money. The old BC Tel labour culture is passe. BC Tel once had a monopoly on all land lines. If they had an increase in labour cost, they simply went to the CRTC and asked for a rate increase and passed the cost onto the customer. When the last contract with TCU was negotiated there were hardly any cell phones and now ther are a majority of customers using cell phones. The old land line division is losing money within Telus. Yes, they are making a profit, but it's in spite of these buggy whip makers. Telus have said that nobody is about to lose their job, they are only looking for flexibility to manage the modern world's expectations of tehir customers.
Soon you as a consumer will have a choice between Telus and Shaw for all three key services. TV, telephone and Internet. Shaw isn't bound by archaic labour relations. So Telus must be able to compete or disappear. Where will the TCU workers work if Telus goes out of business ?

None of this is about anything but character.

You look at this stuff and what you are seeing is clues to who these people are, deep down.

They don't even respect each other.

Add this to the way they disrespect their customers, their employees, the laws and customs of Canada, as opposed to the US, even their own company, it's equipment and so forth.

Then factor in the fact that they forced the work stoppage by unilaterally imposing changes in contracts they refused to negotiate for many months, then keep pretending that this is somebody else's fault. You see that they don't respect the truth either.

It's a lot of clues, and they all point in one direction, don't they? To a certain quality of character. Not a very nice one either.

darcy,
A few points on your comments.Your first comment on how you find a persons name "offensive" completely takes away from any (if any) points you try to make.You lose any respect of your argument before you even begin. You do have a point about the video not being reported in accurately. The Tyee is the only news outlet that I have seen do any real coverage on this story. As far as "screwing with the entire province's economy?" I believe you should direct your anger at Telus CEO Darren Entwistle. Silken is correct in that this is a Lock-out (do a little homework). Out of curiosity I did watch the video and I consider myself to be a pretty easy going person. You know, going to parties, having a little fun, making comments to freind's and such, but this is not a private house party. Some questions to ask yourself. This was paid for by who?, and why feel it necessary to have your employees watch?
Remember this. The Company felt the need to make this video. The Company felt the need to show it to employees and the Company is the one that should answer to it. Not the Union.
No, by the way I do not work for Telus and know very few people who do. The Company that I work for is at least very respectible to it's employees and the Managers I have talked to about this, well let's just say they shudder.

Baily; Have you ever seen the movie called " The Corporation " ? Corporations do not have a social concience nor are they expected to. We as workers can only ride their coat-tails in order to make money to feed and educate our children. Half of Canadian people work for the government so I can see how it's difficult for Canadians to grasp this concept.

darcy.mcgee can get his adsl from someone else. It may take a few days longer, but you're being offensive by purchasing products from a company under picket. I take the liberty to speak for all of us. Anyone who goes out of their way to do new business with a company during a labour dispute has less morals than a jackal.

well I will not go so far as to say I am defending anyone else but I know what I would do if my wife was up on that stage!

back in the office eh ronny erwin, so what are you one of the pr types hired by gordo to spew your right wing rhetoric?

Thank you so much for your comment darcy.

"I just want my friggin' DSL."

This comment typifies Telus exactly how Telus management works. They want what they want and nothing else will do. They have no regard for their customers or their employees. This Video shows the degrading ways of the management team at Telus. All I want is to be treated with respect and dignity as both an employee and a customer. Unfortunately with the present management team, this will never happen. I don't see a very friendly future from this company...

Could someone please tell me what this video has to do with negotiating a new contract and getting everyone back to work? 'Sexist and homophobic'? Get over it. Sounds like the TWU leadership is taking advice from Jinny Sims and the BCTF. Also sounds like if these people don't get serious about getting with the times re; recognition of new technologies and competition etc. they may be out of work for a very long time. That can benefit absolutely no one, except perhaps the replacement workers.

Oh yes Ron, I saw The Corporation. What I got from this film was the sad fact that we are returning to Serfdom. We get our little piece of the pie and we eek out our existance to make those at the top extremely wealthy. When is it enough money? 100 million, 250 million, 1 billion, 50 billion. Unfortunately with "The Corporation" it is never enough.For Darren Enwistle and his gang of thugs, it will never be enough.

You married nemisis? Let your wife/husband come to a party one day and we'll degrade her/him. Maybe one of your doughters can come to the stage and we'll comment on her breasts in a public place. This video has to do with the character of those running this company. It has nothing to do with getting a fair and equitable contract....rather it gives some insight as to why we cannot get one with Darren Entwistle at the helm. No respect for anything or anyone.

I know someone who went through the down sizing of the 90s, she ended up in the hospital she was so stressed out and sick, this was from management. The creep wanted to keep his little bimbo in her high heels and didn't want repercussions from the head office so he abused my friend until she had a nervous break down. He got the boot eventually but it was to late for her the damage was done.

This is only one story, you have to wonder how often it happens and how many women are being abused by bad bosses.

So it's good for a little insight. Big deal. Now get on with trying to get a new contract so everyone can get back to work. I know some Telus employees personally and I fear for their future. The Union leadership should get serious about getting this done before it's too late. Forget about the stupid video. Articles like this one and this inflamed rhetoric can only exacerbate this situation. GET ON WITH IT!!!!

Alberta's TCU workers seem to be more intelligent than there brothers and sisters in BC. But that shouldn't surprise anyone, should it ? They are mostly back to work. They know buggy whips are not a hot item anymore.

This is another example of Telus's demeaning attitude towards women.

Since 2000, Telus has focused on closing down traditionally female work positions.
Taking employment away from those that often need to most.

Telus wants to outsource the work to a Philippines call center, increasing the need for the Canadian government to support more Canadians, by increasing the taxes of Canadians.

Is Telus Idol embarrassing to Telus?
Telus has already agreed to workshops that would cost about $5 MILLION to stop this story from coming out.

Telus is a sad commentary on today's corporate culture.

The people of Canada have a responsibility to ensure Corporate correctness.

We would nemisis if Telus would return to the bargaining table. If you check the facts you would see that it's Telus that refuses to negotiate. The TWU agreed to Binding Arbitration, they agreed to have a mediator brought in, they provided a counter offer to which Telus has not replied. I fear for the future of Telus Employee's also...only because of who leads this company. I also fear for unionized employees across Canada if Darren is allowed to bring his American style negotiating tactics here.

Telus smelus. i just cancelled my home phone. They are not getting another dime out of me. thisa Entwhistle dude sounds like a real knob.

I bet he is a lowsy dancer too.

Ahh Ron, let's attack people's intelligence. I see why you side with Darren and his gang of thugs....you too do not respect people and have to resort to insulting them. I also believe that the TCU was allowed to negotiate, they were not handed a "Final Offer" and told to take it or leave it.

For those interested, the partial Telus Idol clip is here: http://www.cupwnewvision.org/telusidol.htm

Sometimes publishing private videos cause unforseen results: re, Rodney King,Canadian Paras,Sky Hook, Guantanaman Bay, Supected terrorists in Iraq.
Now we have Corporate videos for internal use thatleak out. Will it cause harm to Telus?
Canadians will care, Canericans won't.

ron is the last person who should try attacking peoples intelligence, stupid is as stupid does!

Telus FORCED implementation of the "offer" on people as of July 22, which is why the pickets were set up on the 21st!

People didn't have a choice as of the 22nd as to what their working conditions were. They were told what they were going to be!

If anyone in Canada wants those conditions, please feel free to go to a sweatshop country: forced labour, poor pay and miserable working conditions. In MY Canada, that doesn't happen!

Here are some excerpts from their "Final Offer":
http://www.twu213.com/docs/forms/Foffer.pdf

Have a look, it's quite enlightening.

Wow, I'm just back from more than a week of hiking and biking and definitely not phoning only to learn that ignorance is a growth industry here in BC.

No I didn't learn that on the trails. I've managed to pick this wisdom up reading the reactionary plonk above from those who think this is a "labour" story.

It is definitely a business story, a human rights story and a few other things, but it has nothing what-so-ever to do with "labour", a strike or the sad fact that D' McGee has lost his toy.

Quit the whining you pathetic consumer or at least pay attention to the facts if you are capable without your friggin' DSL to sooth your fears.

This is a business story that shows the average consumer/citizen trapped in a deregulated nightmare that they are little more than cash machines to be milked by the marketplace.

It also shows that Telus leaders assume an ownership perspective over their employee and see absolutely nothing wrong in humiliating Telus workers if it will motivate sales staff to screw another customer in the name of profit.

It is a human rights story in that workers have been humiliated, harrassed and psychologically abused by a company's leadership who take pleasure in dominating people, and apparently prefer to beat up on women.

I have not seen this video and am not surfing the net looking for traces of it. If it is true that Telus honcho Darren Entwhistle participated, then I would suggest he be nominated as Canada's Corporate Pig of the Year.

If you have ever had reason to try to call Telus to have a problem dealt with, you will know that the underlying arrogance and disdain for workers and consumers as displayed in the video is simply business-as-usual.

I would also suggest (but I won't hold my breath waiting), that Entwhistle be fired along with the corporate lackies who joined him in this embarrassing event.

D'arcy, until you get your toy back, I'd recommend you purchase a hard copy of Playboy or what ever your favorite site is. You can use your typing fingers to turn the pages in case things get too confusing for you.

Ron,
I was interested in how many Telus Union members, not managers or replacement workers, have actually crossed in Alberta becuase as you have stated they are more "intelligent."
From what I can find Googaling the Uniun has stated that they paid out inital "lock-out" pay to 79% of it's members. Not including those on holidays or those that have gone to other jobs and are not collecting pay.
Telus has apperantly hired a private company to check on the # of employees still on payroll. I cant find any Press releases to the figures so I dont know what they are. It will be interesting to see I am sure.

Western; I will get back to you. Right now I admit it's only anecdotle based on reading Alberta websites and news reports. But there is no doubt that Albertan's who are members of the TCU are not nearly as militant about this STRIKE.

What is this TCU you refer to Ron? And please refer to this labour dispute for what it really is, a LOCKOUT!!! I'm sure if you do just a little research you will find the CIRB documents that show Telus locked us out as opposed to the Union going on strike.

One can easily live without a telephone, television, and internet. All it takes is a change in attitude. All three entities are just avertising mediums that attempt to cause you unhappiness and fear in your life so that you will buy more and more useless products that don't live up to the hype. Telus should pay us to be hooked up to the consumer wheel.

Sorry, I meant to say that the TWU is on STRIKE. Why doesn't the union executive allow their clints a secret vote on the imposed contract that they are STRIKING against ? Wouldn't that settle matters for good ? I bet they are afraid of the results.

It would cost Telus 13 million to dump Entwhistle. Nice separation packages these morons get set up with.

I'm on the verge of cancelling my Telus line, except for the fact, it's my computer hookup. Delta cable is looking better and better.

The trouble with Ron Erwin, is that he actually believes his bumf, our ecconomy is at a knifes edge - Ford, GM, and a host of other major corporations are in desperate trouble and now with gas prices soaring, it could be the coup de gras for many.

Then what happens Ron? Anarchy and its happening now. Our current 'free enterprise' system isn't working to well, with a lot of people falling through the cracks. When that number reaches a critcal mass, about 30% or so the result - revolution.

I guess 3.5% unemployment in Victoria is evidence that free enterprise is not working. I guess that really upsets you socialists. It's way better for your argument when many people are suffering. What a pitifull position you have.

Oh Ron, now you're spewing the Telus rhetoric. We WILL NOT vote on a NON-NEGOTIATED. This so called contract is the one that was imposed on the TWU members as part of Telus's Lock Out measures. Telus has not bargained in good faith and the CIRB has found Telus guilty of not soing so 3 times now. You really have to do some research before you make statements. Maybe instead of just spewing the Telus lies you could get informed of the facts. My goodness Ron, you can't even get the Union's name correct!!! Seems to me you're full of misinformation and it would be a benifit to us all if you would inform yourself before spreading more of Telus's lies.

Apparently this imposed agreement is a better offer than the agreemant the BC Federation of Labour made with their employees.

Doublespeak Ron.....stick with the topic please. We're talking Telus here and your trying to deflect the topic and ignore the issues. It's imposed and because of that is unacceptable. Did the BC Fed negotiate their contract? YES!!! There in lies the big difference. Telus is a coporate bully and is trying to dictate the terms of the contract without negotiating. Can you seriously defend that? Maybe you would like to negotiate the purchase of your next home this way. The seller can dictate the terms, price and anything else he feels is good for him and you just have to accept it. You going to accept that? You're dancing around the issues Ron and not really presenting your side of the argument very well.

the bubble in Victoria isn't going to last forever either, eventually realtors are going to price them selves out of the market, who can afford an average house price of 433,000 when interest rates go up a few points.

Rising gas prices are going to slow down the economy here, I don't see as many RVs on the road this year and friends who are avid campers have cut down on their camping, spending more time in their back yards hanging out. Don't blame them! Recreational boaters are cutting back and I see a lot of guzzlers for sale on the side of the road!

Ron says; "Why doesn't the union executive allow their clints a secret vote on the imposed contract that they are STRIKING against ?" Sounds like a good question. Why not?

I`ve been following this story for a very long time and one thing I cannot fathom is that why any of you would work for someone you hate so much? Boggles the mind!

Nemesis... A proposal does NOT a contract make!!! Why would telecommunications specialists pretend to be able to LEGALLY interpret a proposal without training in contract law? Why do you think we have a Union? And why would we, as laypeople, contractually-speaking, accept an offer from a Company that fails to recognize our representation? Why do both sides of a proposal each hire legal counsel??? Why don't they both just use the same one? Why are you pretending that telecommunications specialists should be able to interpret that proposal? Even with legally-inexperienced eyes, we can see it's a piece of crap!!! A negotiated agreement has not been presented. Now.. your turn... Why is Telus so scared to negotiate it if they think it's stellar???

Maxwell:

We don't 'hate' Telus, we just hate what the Executive Leadership Team is doing to it...There's a big difference!

I'd like to refer back a few hours. Ron Erwin, you mentioned the documentary "The Corporation", which makes the point that the corporations which dominate our economic lives, have become legal 'persons', and can be shown as persons to be psychotic.

You seem to think it's somehow a good idea for psychotic persons to be in leadership positions in our society. What do you think a society is?

Humans are people. All human endeavor, all noblility, all accomplishment, all creativity is done by people in relationship with all people. Those of every kind, living lives of every kind contribute themselves and their efforts to society; to the sum total of human life on earth.

It has to do with our qualities. Our personal qualities. If we're intelligent or stupid, we contribute that. If we're honest or liars, we contribute that. If we live our lives struggling against the baser greeds and impulses and trying to create a small triumph, that is our legacy.

If psychotic values are allowed to steer our course, what will be our legacy then? If profit becomes, not just our means of accomplishing our contributions, whatever they might be, and instead becomes our only value, in true psychotic fashion replacing human values, what then will be the sum total of human contribution to the quality of existance?

Dessident, maybe you could suggest an executive leadership team that would be your choice to do a better job.

Bailey you stated exactly and summed up the whole essence of what this was about in the first place. Back on topic before the Telus rhetoric was placed here, by the way if the TWU takes a vote on the "offer" that the company forced on the employees (nice point marc.johnson about would you like to be forced into the contract conditions by the seller of your new home, I liked that)that means simply that they(bargaining unit employees) will be acknowledging this "offer" as the last contract that was "supposedly bargained" (there's that darn word supposed again) from that day forward and if binding arbitration were to be forced or mediation that "offer" of which was NOT NEGOTIATED by the union will be the one in play. Telus executives keep promoting their propaganda by trying to get the not so informed employees to put pressure on the union exectutive to put it to a vote of which would then obliterate years of this unions negotiated (blood sweat and tears of previous union members)down the drain. Quite simply Telus has been maniputating the press as usual(as they have your customer dollars to buy the media) and putting forth how wonderful they are and that these are stellar offers made by the company. Now I ask all intellegent people who are reading this a question. WOULD YOU SIGN AN AGREEMENT THAT: FIRSTLY YOU ARE FORCED TO DO WITH NO INPUT, SECONDLY NO DEFINITION OF "CORE" WORKERS, IN ONE BREATH TELUS SAYS 345 "CORE" WORKERS WILL BE AXED AND IN THE OTHER BREATH NO DEFINITIONS AS TO WHO IS A CORE WORKER, THIRDLY (BIG ONE HERE) CONTRACT THAT SAYS ETC. IN IT??? Ooops forgot to mention the contracting out of Installation and Repair and a call centre located in the Phillipines partly owned by Telus!

Now I humbly ask all intellegent people as well, would you also [B]like to work for executives that have no remorse (the mores of a pea) for the actions of degredation of women and fellow workers as they were told they must watch the video????[/B]

Do we not stress in our society that children learn what they live?

Spending 5 million dollars on a respectful work place course, when it was really only the actions of only a few executives. Isn't that penalizing people that already have morals and scrupples? Consumer dollars I might add, dollars that could have been spent on keeping jobs in Canada instead of call centres in the phillipines @ $5.99 CDN per day per worker, gosh, will there be so many more dollars for shareholders? Moreover will this not have a great rippling effect in our communities, as an economy is only strong when the people in the individual neighbourhoods are gainfully employed, big key here with a standard of living that they can sustain themselves and the community around them ie: the local corner store and gas station etc. Will the service be better with Telus? As we all know the service has gotten so much better at Telus after all the job cuts in the past few years hasn't it? Things that make you say Hmmmmm.

I explained why not nemesis. Why do you people insist on asking the same question over and over. Read the thread carefully nemesis, the answers are there.

Maxwell....got quite a few years in, top of the pay scale, pension, quickly approaching middle age, and lastly I do not hate the company, I dislike the leader and his bully tactics. You've heard his motto....FIFO...Fit In or F*** Off....that should say it all. Oh yeah, have a look at the Telus Idol Video, it will give you idea of his character and just how the man runs the company.

I picked up the movie The Corporation today. This movie is really something else.

Backatcha, you are quoting language that does not appear anywhere in the telus offer. Your number of 345 is wrong as is your other wording. As was posted previously the following is the exact wording in the offer:

In the contracting out section of the offer it clearly states the following (page 37): "29.01 No regular employee will be laid off as a direct result of the company contracting out work that is normally and currently performed by bargaining unit employees. The Company further agrees that it will not contract out any bargaining unit work in the job classification and headquarters area where there are employees on lay-off who are capable of doing the work, providing the necessary tools and equipment are available".

There is a Letter of agreement (as is customary in BU agreements) entitled "Contracting Out" (page 140) as part of the offer which states: "A. Notice of intent to pursue Contracting out options for Specific non-core Functions

Given TELUS's commitment to keeping employees aware of developments that impact them in a timely fashion, and without limiting the rights under article 29 of the Collective Agreement, this letter provides advance notice of the company's intent during the term of the agreement to pursue contracting out options as an alternative to performing the work associated with the functions shown below with it's own employees. Currently, approximately 375 employees work in these functions. The functions are:

* Fleet Operations * Supply Operations Functions * Investment recvery grup * Warehuse and Internal Distributin * Mail peratins * Real Estate Functins * Building Maintenance service and trades * Travel Service * Frms Cntrl and Cpy Administratin * AC Electrical Renvatin/Maintenance * Miscellaneus Equipment Repair peratins (printed circuit cards, vice and radi telephne sets, test equipment * All Cable Cutting * Telephne Bth Cnstructin and repair * Custm Manufacturing Shp Functins * Cin Cllecting and Cunting"

I wuld say that is a pretty specific list. I take it yu have never seen this list r knew it existed r were yu just hping that yur brthers and sisters and the public wuld believe that the cmpany had nt been specific? Mre false rhetric frm the TWU!

By the way in case yu dn't knw the language f the mst recently expired cntract, check ut page 37 f yur TWU (expired) agreement sectin (f) it states: "The Cmpany agrees that it will nt cntract ut wrk nrmally perfrmed by emplyees within the bargaining unit if such cntracting ut wuld cause any emplyee in the bargaining unit t be terminated r laid ff unless n present r laid-ff emplyees are capable f ding the wrk."

Maybe yu culd let everyne knw when the last time telus had a layff. Remember there is a difference between vluntary seperatin and layffs as seems t be verlked in the unin prpaganda.

Ron, here is an analogy for you (sorry, big word, means a story that relates)

You are buying a new car, you old one isn't running well. Now, you go to the car lot and the salesman says, "Here, this is your new car." You say, "No, it's not, I want one like I had because it worked well". The salesman says "Sorry, but you have to take it, and until you do, I am going to remove parts of you old car until you accept." Then, all of a sudden, he squashes your old car and tells you that now you have no choice, take his car, or walk!" Well ,you don't want his Lada/Edsel.. (Put your favourite lemon here). So, you decide to walk, but without your old car, because it's now gone!

This is what the company has done to us with their "Lockout Measures, up to Implimenting the Offer! What's the matter, quit whining, you can't have the car of your choice, unless you stand up for what is right. Stand up to the bully! We want a respectful, revised collective agreement, not one with ETC in it's clauses. Yes, it's there, check it out, I have.

For all of you people asking about why we don't vote on the so called "final offer". Isn't it blatantly obvious by the number of people on the picket line that we VOTE NO!!! The one's that disagree have and will cross the picket line, and most of them have crossed because of intimidation by the company.

Again, an offer that is being implemented is NOT NEGOTIATED is not an OFFER!!! We the picketer's WILL NOT work under an IMPOSED set of rules (I can't even call it a contract). Can we be any clearer?

Henesey, nice thing about a competetive environement is you can go to a different car dealer. In both your analogy and in this real life situation that is exactly what you should. Go somewhere else! Would you stand at a car dealer and complain. I doubt it. You would go elsewhere. Why do you stay here and complain if the options are better elswhere.

Wwood:

I have invested a number of years toward my retirement with TELUS. I don't hate this company, in fact I love my job. I simply wish to accorded the respect due to any worker. That tells you why I won't just go to another company. Would you leave a company where you have invested time and money (Yes, I have shares)? Didn't think you would, Wwood. Nice try though. All TELUS has to do is NEGOTIATE a collective aggreement. Simply accept the Labour Ministers offer of a Special Mediator, opps, they don't want that. Well, how about Binding Arbitration, fair all around. Opps again, they appealed that after the said they were pleased to accept. Right, Darren is on record as saysing "I will let this company go down before I bargain with the Tellecommunications workers Union. Hmmm, methinks we need to stand up to this bully.

I happened across this a little while ago http://www.petitiononline.com/FiFoWar/petition.html

If this is the mentality of replacement (scab) workers for Telus.... I have lost any respect I would have had for this Company.
Below are just a few exerpts from an online petition a member of the TWU has put together.

Name followed by Comments 505. Blundell Telus? I don't know about that...i'm just trying to find out how to make nipple molds out of used pudding skins. what?
502. Mauro Franca, do we have tartar sauce? uh
501. Valerie Gooplehise Wood tastes funny when its been spolied by fectal matter, BUT ...remember soya sauce is loaded with salt, so when you think about it, you ARE ugly! Belleville
500. Buff'n'Beefy1974 Hey ladies! (male/26/fit) I'm new here. Anyone wanna chat? Grass
497. vulva voidness My eye is itchy - can anyone spare some labia? MAJORIA
494. Jeremy I want to wear Hillary Duff's corn hole as a hat. Tadpoles
493. WHAT What what you dont like our anti striker comments , shame on you, lazy smelling dust lickers YOUR MOM
491. kangaroo goo Hippy Hop Hop , sniffling elbows on a antartic crust, singing la de da doo day I like to smell the gays San Fransico
489. Particle Boards Uncle Last time I checked I WAS CHINEASE?
488. Anemic Blood Eyelid Donna, your a fat faced liar, your life is a sham and you need to pay off your zellers card you poisionous anteater Your neighbour
487. Arun Kanagasabapathy In my country, our major export are festive salt shakers made from the nostrils of disobedient children Toad
485. hillary clinton ARUN!!! WHATS up BUDDY! ? GUY! quatar
483. Arun Kanagasabapathy In my country, we do not have Starbucks, we have famine and ebola. Tuna
482. Arun Kanagasabapathy In my country, there are 712 locations where we can legally urinate on our brides. Thunder Bay
480. Arun Kanagasabapathy In my country, our president has fur. Salt Lake City
479. Lago No puedo creer la arena mojada de las marcas de la leche del árbol más celosa. Tengo una caja de entrerroscas de la cartulina y el requesón hace que canta. ¡CHA HA HA HA! De todas formas, toque mis estrellas de mar, y hágalas púrpuras. Viva Crisco!!!!!! Ecuador or something
478. Nelf Scraggenflumper I really think that a large company such as this should take the initiative and try and clear this matter up before it escalates into..BABA BOOEY BABA BOOEY! HOWARD STERN'S PENIS!!!!!!!!!!!! Winnipeg
472. Arun Kanagasabapathy In my country, we don't have cell phones, and my brother lives in an ox carcass. Phoenix
471. Julie Rennie When exactly is that thing going to crawl back out of my ass, anyway? I'm really starting to get worried about it. Christ, it's been like 7 hours already and I need to take it back to PJ's Pets by 9, or I won't get a refund!

When I posted earlier in this forum I still held out some hope that there was some regard of decency at Telus. Is this the future the costomers are going to get. It seems to me that Telus Idol has had an impact on some people afterall.

To Wwood:

Ok, the Seven Dwarves would be a good start...

To Wwood:

"Maybe you could let everyone know when the last time telus had a layoff."

That's because the contract language has been there.

You see, If this 'Foffer' is ratified, it's gives clear license for Telus to do what they wish, when they wish.

Question: If they have no intent to do it, why it it in the proposal?

The language also gives the company the right to own my life "depending on service levels".

Sorry, not acceptable.

Wwood, this comment you made is ridiculous,

"Henesey, nice thing about a competetive environement is you can go to a different car dealer. In both your analogy and in this real life situation that is exactly what you should. Go somewhere else!"

This is a place of employment, with a union, who bargains a new contract for us. Get this through your thick skull. THE CONTACT WAS NOT NEGOTIATED!!! TELUS HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF BARGAINING IN BAD FAITH. What is it with you people who can not understand that there are labour laws in this country and Telus is trampling all over these laws. They are a coporate bully and we just have to stand up to this BS.

WWood, Why didn't you post any rebuttal on Telus Idol?

Lost for words?

I hear customer service levels are actually going up with the strike.

Rather than spending 5 hours on the phone to reach a manager who can actually fix all the billing errors that Telus routinely makes, you can now reach one within an hour and a half.

Lets see now rebuttals on telus idol. Lets see some real nice examples of the type TWU behavior

In the words of realbluehowz (A real role model for union productivity). He says above about telus idol,"This is another example of Telus's demeaning attitude towards women".

The very propper Silken is quoted as saying "I am sick to death of hearing the words "allegedly" or "supposedly" when the whole sordid mess was documented"

Now for a very small taste of the upstanding TWU members comments pulled from any number of the current forums.

I suppose that these are not demeaning or threatening to anyone.
Here goes. By the way there is tons to choose from. Go to the VFC site yourself to see more upstanding respectful behavior.
Quotes follow:
This one from VFC
"For future reference, when we are working side by side, my brothers and sisters and those scumsucking lowlife puke bucket scabs

I DO live near to you, but car pooling is just out of the question, the smell of dead skunk ass is IMPOSSIBLE to get out of my upholstery, trust me I tried, I picked your MOM up last week (I thought she was homeless and needing a ride to a shelter, I had no idea she was a street walker.)

and yes I do think you look fat in those pants. Looks like you've gained 30 pounds since I last saw you (girly scabs will love that)"

And I eagerly await the day that I can watch scabs (such as LM) get their flaky pussy asses hauled off the job because the TWU finally stepped up to the plate. I will laugh and throw pennies at them to start filling the tin cups they'll be holding on the street corner...or condoms because they'll have to sell their scabby bodies. End of quotes.

I guess it really depends on what side of the argument you are on that determines how your behavior will be tolerated. Tons more

Maybe we can do a full article in the media around this type of behavior

Had a long conversation with a Telus manager tonight. Sounds like this strike will be going on for a very long time indeed, unless the union can recognize that the telecommunications world has changed immensely in the past ten years.

why am I not surprised that a telus manager would say this and blame the union for not recognising the changes. Couldn't have changed that much if telus is making money hand over fist, when is enough enough, well they will be getting considerably less from me.

wood how do I know you didn't make this up? Looks like it to me, if the media had an opportunity to dig up some dirt on telus employees they would with out your feeble efforts. The telus employees must be getting pretty frustrated reading crap like your bogus rhetoric and dealing with morons for managenment like entwistle.

Talked to union members tonight and it looks like this LOCKOUT will be going on for very long time indeed, unless the company can accept the fact that they are making record profits with the old contract and it's about time Entwisle and his gang of thugs shared the rewards.

Oh and Wwood and nemisis, do you want me to post the financial reports here or can you find it on your own. Ignore those facts...

[B]Dearest Wwood,
I tend to disagree with you again, a scab and how they are treated has been an acceptable behaviour since the inception of unions in the early 1900's, the only thing now in present time you lucky scabs won't go through as much ridicule as you would have 20-30 years ago. However it will not be an easy road for you to walk. You really only degraded your own integrity and betryed your fellow workers but who am I, I do not judge you but I am certainly glad I will not be walking in your shoes in time to come. What this is really about is the simple fact that everyone signed a document with the union that you swore you would hold up the constitution and bylaws of said union. This could be construed as a betrayal to your self and your brothers and sisters in the union but there again who am I to judge those shoes will feel like cement boots later on. Alas, yet again we are side tracked with the normal hide the pea game. I will ask you again, you actually bore me with this game. So her goes, I have tweeked the question hoping to make it a little clearer for you to digest, comprehend and comment about.

[B]Wwood, Why did you not post any rebuttal to defend the great upper management "team" for their actions and or lack of actions regarding the Telus Idol video as it pertains to the lude behaviour?

Your comments would be appreciated as to what you think the level [I]of character and morals it takes to act out in public in such a crass, disgusting and degrading manner as what was displayed by this video called "Telus Idol" and as I remember this is the original subject of this thread?????

A straight answer is all I ask. Is this so hard?? No side steppin dancing, been there got the T shirt. If you are not going to answer straight up then do not bother as it is like I said boring to read through the pr mumbo jumbo over and over and over again. It would also be curtious for the readers in this forum to not have to sift through a bunch of double talk in order to find a straight answer. [/B]

Thank you in advance Wwood

Wwood just another little hint no more deferrals to other subjects it's an age old diversion tactic, just straight truth if you can manage that.

as was said earlier. Entwhistle has been the reason that we are now a national data/ip and wireless company which is the envy of the global telecom market. The only morons are the ones leading the TWU who would have had us remain as a western ilec and gradually had our business eroded. Then they would have whined about leadership as is their constant refrain.
Real leaders take risks. TWU leaders just take.
The legacy of the TWU will be that they failed to adapt and went extinct. Too bad for the majority of fantastic TWU members.

I see you'll quote a post where someone deals with an opinion and try to argue that. However it appears that you chose to ignore facts presented to you. How about the fact that Telus is making record profits under the old agreement. How about the fact that Telus has been found guilty of bargaining in bad faith 3 times. How about the complete lack of respect shown by senior management in the Telus Idol Video. How about the 6,000 people who do not work at Telus anymore...Oh yes they weren't laid off, but the fact reamins that the company was 6,000 people short and the customers suffered miserably because of it. You won't discuss the relevant FACTS...instead it appears that you want to spew the Telus rhetoric. You fit in well with Drew and the other Telus spin doctors...nothing but twisted ramblings of those who refuse to see the reality of the situation. The TWU will live long after Darren and his thugs has left the company...but of course only time will show me correct on this.

Bailey; re: coporations are phycotic, do you mean like the BCTF ?

Wwood... The "very propper [sic] Silken" wishes you to know that your opinion of Entwistle says a great deal about who you are!!! You say " Entwhistle has been the reason that we are now a national data/ip and wireless company which is the envy of the global telecom market." What utter hogwash!!!

The wonderful people who have devoted their entire careers to serving Telus clients in the frontlines are the ones who deserve the credit for the prosperity that Telus now enjoys!

You remain quite unwilling to post anything other than Telus rhetoric.. refusing to answer direct questions... giving credit where it is NOT due... and continually spouting a generalized opinion that you have abjectly refused to support with any kind of evidence. If you were pleading your case in a courtroom, you would lose through your sheer unwillingness to offer any kind of evidence for your case. Throughout this entire opinion thread and the other one that initially brought the executive's warped behaviors into the limelight, you have maintained that Entwistle is a smart man and entirely responsible for the profits of the company. He is NOT smart! He is the figurehead for all of the arrogant elitists he represents, forgetting always that there are more of us than there are of people of his ilk. No "smart" man would alienate his own employees and become so proud of his ability to abuse them that he openly defies court orders! No "smart" man would have allowed himself to be filmed dancing with a female employee at his feet for the rest of the country to see! He is NOT smart - he is grandiose, considering himself to be above the laws and decisions that have been rendered by the courts. He is narcissistic - totally in love with his own image! He is sociopathic - revealing his lack of human conscience in everything he does. He's a Hannibal Lechter - trying to eat people while trying to look smart. But like Hannibal Lechter - he will end up strapped to a furniture dolly with a cage over his face so that he can't eat people anymore. It's a DUMB DOG that craps where he eats Wwood... Not a smart one!!!

Silken

Wwood are you lost for words again? Can't answer direct questions? My,my, my, thou doest protest too loudly.

Wwood are you lost for words again?

Can't answer direct questions?

My, my, my, thou doest protest too loudly.

its amazing what can be accomplished with quality leadership and a high performance team. it can all happen dispite people like you and the rest of the bitter minority coninually poisening the workplace. I look forward to the day (like now) when that vocal minority is history

Again Wwood not a straight answer out of you yet, other than evasive rhetoric, must have gone to the Darren Entwistle School of Communication. I am not bitter at all, nor am I the minority, just realistic. I have the integrity and intelligence to know when I am being fed a constant diet of propaganda. You however would not know if the truth came up and bit you in the .....

I just can't seem to lower myself to that of the "charater"? and "Dignity"? of the actions and language of that on the "Telus Idol" video.

Any direct questions that you would like to answer Wwood?

I thought positions of leadership were supposed to be filled by people with integrity? Or did that go out when management and their gods were given ridiculous large salaries? Money can buy everything these days eh?

Telus and their CEO have shown their true colours years ago by not giving a twit about their customers.

Not at all suprising that you would rather focus on a sales party taken completely out of context rather than getting off the street. I will not. I will continue to focus on getting good productive team members back together working to continue to build our company by ensuring that they have all of the facts and can seperate the truth from the fearmongering. A perfect example is this:
If you don't see it the company way it is your right to strike. If on the other hand you don't see it the TWU way you will be threatened with some sort of half baked Kangaroo court. The only problem as I see it with this is that I somehow don't think your little tribunals (whata joke) will be able to keep up with demand. I also can not believe anyone would actually show-up to a bunch of drooling bitter folks just waiting to pounce on someone with an independant thought. I will await eagerly for my call. What a laugh. OMG.

Wwood,
I don't work for Telus but I think I know you. Yeah I'm sure I do. You sound just like some of the Managers in the company I work for. Can never answer a Question when asked, like a good politition, and always take credit for mine and the other employees work. Oh yeah I'm sure I know you.

How friggin sad that some people who have posted here see more value in the reduction of phone costs than the wages of a nation.

This is the pitiful cry of the free-enterpriser who wants to play in the market place free of the community chest of needs.

Someone else can pay for the roads, the hospitals and the poor, because we seek a more noble cause, the pursuit of profit.

Bah, humbug, I say. Telus, you created your wealth and power off the backs of your workers. You have a community-based moral obligation to ensure those workers enjoy at least a tiny fraction of the huge profits you have reaped as your workers have waited for a fair contract.

To do otherwise is to suggest Telus is little more than a blight, a cancer within the communities it profits from.

Well said allan...

And to you Wwood. You stil have not discussed many serious issues brought up to you. From your last post it appears that you are a Telus manager/scab who has drank the koolaid. A few parting words to you Wwood, bahhhhh, bahhhh, bahhhh....

Awww Woody.. honey.. that sales party went "out of context" all by its lil self.. We are not "on the street".. we are a buncha good folks who love the fresh air and visiting each other while we wait for all the scabs to get ground into hamburger by Darren's big boot... How's that for "out of context"! Why on earth would we be bitter when our cause is worthy and yours is simply to keep padding your pocket no matter what it costs anyone else? A 226 million dollar revenue pot says to me that End-whistler had a "good productive" team and doesn't have enough sense to place any value on it... But while you are in there doing your 12/6's, we know it is only a matter of time before the whole damn lot of you end up with serious exhaustion and lots of divorces... Just think Woody... you will lose 50% of your assets in divorce court cause you're never home and your wife finds out in all of this that you have the moral values of Hitler...

When are you going to get IT that we are not ON STRIKE?!?! We are LOCKED OUT!!! Or is the CIRB bitter too???

Woody.. don't keep letting us down.. Answer some questions... And while you're about it.. think of how fresh and rested we are while you have our good clients ripping you new butts every minute of your day...

We KNOW what's happening Woody... It's just a matter of time...

Silken

Western... you hit the nail right on the head!!! Thank you for offering your keen insight...

Allan... awesome post that tells it EXACTLY like it is... Simple, straight-forward and TRUE!!! You rock Allan!

Marc... baaaahhh is right... lol...

CRH... excellent points... cudos to you...

Backatcha... wonder what happened to the Gryphonrider? Said... you don't speak for me and then SHE didn't speak either.. lol... Dontcha just wonder?

In solidarity brothers & sisters,

Silken

I wonder if WWood has seen the documentary "Is WalMart Good For America?" Corporations are WalMartizing the workforce and at the same time their employees become nothing but cult followers. The "WalMart
Idol" parties in the documentary were like a religious revival, the masses were beating their chests and shaking their fists in the air. Chanting.

Pretty repulsive working conditions we all have to look forward to. However it takes taht kind of devotion and blank stare to make it easier to get us all to drink the koolaid when the ones we idolize no longer have a use for us. Praise the CEOs and bless them Jesus!

Western, Allan, Marc.,CRH, 4Cryinoutloud, allen, urus, Dessident, Henesy and Silken each of you have such unique points of view this is why I like to come to forums and see the different expressions of view point and yes that also includes Ron and Wwood.

By the way Wwood what about those direct quetions that I asked you in a previous post are you ever going to give a straight answer?

Allan, you nailed it, except the part about lower phone costs. The outsourcing will not result in lower costs for us consumers just more in the pockets of the upper echelons of management in the form of bonuses.

Voice Over IP will have the effect of lowering our phone costs however and that is a great thing.

Wwood, the amazing thing is what can happen with a dedicated knowledgeable workforce in spite of a lack of leadership. Mr Entwistle and his FIFO (fit in or f**k off) management philosophy really has built a solid team since coming to Telus. This team is called the TWU. For most of us the union was never even on our radar and never came into play into our day to day work until your hero came onto the scene that is and now we are all one huge solid force fighting for the Canadian way of life.
The life that includes dignity and respect for all of us and a decent wage and a middle class that contributes to the social fabric of this great country.

TWU = Dodo Bird = New Zealand . You do the math. The emporer wears no clothes.

Talk about Dodo Bird Erwin... Who taught you how to spell? Since when is Emperor spelled with 2 "o's"???

Isn't it amazing how when you point a finger at people, there are 3 more pointing right back at you? YOU do the math!!!

Silken

Oh Silken - a little like the pot calling the kettle black. i seem to remember you saying the definition of pariah was leech.(yeah right)

or is it just you that gets to be special. i'm suprised you can even find a finger--you can't even get the insults right.

Silken; I am too stupid to understand above posting, sorry.

Wwood feels that Telus has “quality leadership”, personally I don’t see leadership, I see a FOLLOWER. All of this has been done by the USA in the past so how is this leadership? I don’t see any innovation here, it’s all been done before, maybe we could see some innovation by having a CEO working with employee’s by sitting down and bargaining with the union for a fair contract instead of forcing one on them. With a fair contract and working WITH the employee’s NOT against them, I feel this would bring huge profits for everyone and very happy customers. Employees are the “performance team” they make the company! I’m not saying that the employee’s know how to run the company, but they are out in the field talking directly with customers, isn’t customer input valuable? Even over the last 4.5 years the employee’s have worked twice as hard, due to all of the buy-outs and early retirement incentives. We didn’t stop trying to improve Telus, we accepted change even when we were forced to do so without training. I know of lots of workers that worked on their OWN TIME to study and learn new products because the company would not pay for training. We have been pushed and bullied by the company for the last 4.5 years and still we have made record profits! Of course the public would not hear about that, under the old contract we have been embracing change and working extra hard with less people and still the company wants more!

Why is it that the company wants so much “flexibility” when we have proved over the last 4.5 years that we have been able to install and support everything new the company has offered (and with less staff I might add)? We are known as ONE OF CANADA’S LEADING TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMPANY now and have been able to keep that over the last 4.5 years! What is it that the company wants that we have NOT been able to do in the past? What conclusion can you draw from this? Sounds to me like the only flexibility the company wants by contracting out and cheap labour is for one simple reason, MORE MONEY.

Sorry Wwood, after working for the company for 15+ years I think I will stand with the TWU, if not for them I believe there would be no company, because it would just be part time, low paid and contracted out workers who would not give quality work because they would have to work fast and sloppy to be able to take the lowest bid. Look what happened to the truckers that kept under bidding each other.

Roguespear... I would LOVE to take credit for that definition but I am afraid the person who wrote it will have to own it... I have never even HEARD that before.. never mind SAID it!!!

Perhaps you could show us all where I said that???

LMAO!!! Toooooo funny!!!

Silken

We already had that figured out Ron... But even though I KNEW I was trying to put a 10 lb. idea into a 5 lb. brain, I thought there was no harm in trying...

Silken

Good post Vmax!!! We already catch hell for taking longer than 6 minutes to serve each client. It takes an upset client that long to just tell us what their issues are sometimes! It's a real irony that if we take the requisite time to actually SERVE the client, we catch hell for our stats and if we don't we are graded down for our quality scores. If we don't retain the client, our variable pay is reduced... Most clients aren't aware that because the system fails to record the time we spend trying to call them back that many reps simply don't try. When a cellular client has a brand new phone dropping calls and calls in to tell us the problem, he spends a long time in the queue only to find a Client Care rep saying there is nothing they can do. The upset client is then transferred to L & R if he says the word "cancel". If his malfunctioning cell drops the call, he has to try again because the L&R rep knows their after-call stats will go up and they will catch hell in their next "monthly review" so they don't call the poor guy back! As a senior rep who has been in service to the public for 35 years, I call them back anyway and smile at my manager when I am being "reminded" that my after-call is too high... No matter that I save all but 8% of the clients who come to me threatening to cancel.. I am then told I must get my sales stats up.. I respond that my ability to retain the client is based on my ability to LOWER their expenses... The manager responds my sales must be higher... I can just "see" what the NEW company is going to do when the staff are all so subservient that they refuse to defy the company and actually provide GOOD service to the clients.

One of the things that is missing from view is all of the senior reps who simply quit before the lockout happened. Fed up with being treated like kindergarteners and chastised every few weeks... they left to work for a respectable company where they could find some satisfaction in being able to serve a client properly. What a sad time this has been for all of us to lose so many good people prior to the lockout... people who over the last 5 years simply could not take a moment more of the corporate rape of their fellow countrymen...

If those posting their insults and stupidity only knew that we are also fighting to help you have the "quality service" your high invoices are charging you for... you'd shut the hell up and go get a sign on!!!

Silken

Silken, are you sure about why these people left before this STRIKE, maybe they were too embarassed to be associated with this event and your types of fellow employees.
And of course you are going to try and con us into thinking you actually care about the service you are providing. That line has already been worn out by BCTF, CUPE and the like. I take it for the bunk it is.
It's all about self preservation and that's understandable, but at least be honest about it.

Erwin... I will not crawl into the swamp with you so save your breath! My stats and the quality of my service to TM clients are all well-documented. As a matter of fact, there are many clients who will only deal with me on their accounts because I was the first person to actually put their needs instead of the company's profits first. It's unfortunate that such good service is a remote concept in your own small brain and that you find it necessary to hide behind your computer screen to insult and denigrate those of us with integrity.

I would be deeply concerned if you suddenly left a reasonably-competent argument in your wake instead of a slew of insults... I would be even more concerned if you showed respect for anyone here... As it is, I am heartened by the fact that you don't... We are obviously doing something right...

Play on Erwin... you are only cutting into your own credibility with your insults...

Silken

Wwood where did you go? I think Wwood won't be answering any direct questions. Oh well. It's like the politicians when the media asks them a direct question they disappear. Silken, I think this might be a tag team effort by Ron and Wwood when one can't handle the brain work the other appears. Just a theory though.

Thanks for you kind words Silken!

I personally think that most of the people that cross the picket line are ones that have not worked for the company very long. They’ve had a taste of the good life and figure it will always be good. Listen to us, we’ve been around for a long time and have seen the damage that has been prevented by the union. Over time you will come to understand, as I did, that if there was no more union your job would start become like the one that you left, believe us. I remember when I first started with the company, for the first couple of years I kept telling my co-workers “Wow this is fantastic, you should see what it’s like in the real world”. What I mean by that is: I had worked for quite a variety of companies before Telus (BCTel then). Not only were the wages very low in comparison, but the hours were longer and there was very little in the way of benefits (if any). I was then and still am today a hard worker (as are all of the employees), and like Silken and many others, we go out of our way to help the customer.
I was fortunate to have a good manager who would allow us to help customers because he believed the same things we did. He knew that at times I would work OT to help my co-workers and customers without putting in for it, and at times he would walk over to my desk and say go home you deserve it. Now don’t get me wrong here, he was that way with everyone in our group, he not only recognized our hard work he rewarded us for it. Not all managers are bad; I have talked to other employee’s who have told me similar stories. These mangers were taking risks and would probably be fired if caught. I have also talked with employees where the opposite is true.
So we keep telling all these people that are crossing how it was the union that made the work environment and pay what it is today. They don’t seem to want to accept the fact that if this contract goes through things will start to change. If this contract is accepted it pretty much says that the union is not valid and therefore no longer required (Can you say Union Busting?). Things will change gradually; Silken has already shown how the call center environment has changed into a sweat camp even with the old contract (These are things the union wants to prevent). That is just one area of the company, over time you will start to loose more and more of your rights. Without a union you may not have any say if all of a sudden your manager decided that he/she didn’t like you and farmed you out to another department, which could be a lower paying position according to the new contract. Why do you think so many people want to work for Telus?
I think that the older workers that cross the line and know what it’s like are afraid that our CEO will have the power to break the union. They don’t want to loose a job that has such good pay and benefits. By supporting Telus you are trying to guarantee the loss of the very working conditions that you value. If you don’t believe he would do that then look at all the underhanded and dirty things that he has done so far. You think that he will only do these things now and stop doing them if he gets his way? I suppose if you only have a few years left you really don’t care about anyone else. Well I have a conscience, and I know as well as the rest of us that by standing together we will get a fair and bargained contract; you are just slowing down the process.

Silken and vamx200. Please see letter from TWU workers on this site on the other Telus story on Tyee. The cracks have begun.

Nah.. thanks anyway Erwin... They're all you posting under different nics I am sure...
We are rock solid.. Too bad you spend your day making up different nics for your foolishness...

Silken; I guess this will be the last comment from you on this. It seems your credibility has been shatterd by this breakaway TWU group. Mow at last some of you make sense. Ha Ha Ha

Ron,

Why now when confronted with the truth, would you expect the likes of Silken to take their heads out of the (quick) sand

and yes sorry I attributed the error to you, when it was Suze, but with all the diatribes it so hard to tell you apart

and just to clarify--above is Erwin and then your witty comeback--don't see 2 "o" in his--a transposition, maybe--better luck next time

Ron says:

"Silken and vamx200. Please see letter from TWU workers on this site on the other Telus story on Tyee. The cracks have begun".

Again deferring the subject of this thread, we can read, but we are presently on the topic of "Telus Idol". I have seen much drival and no direct questions answered or intellegent viewpoints expressed by Ron or Wwood on this topic. Again the typical propaganda machine at work here. Back on topic "folks" otherwise this is meaningless spewing of telus rhetoric and it is getting boring. Ron, is that all you can come back with, a correction of a correction? Is this what Wwood refers to as "quality leadership and a high performance team". I am so impressed with your correction of a correction right now, I am covering my eyes from the brilliance of your light!

Erwin... You are clearly losing it... but as Backatcha said... You are only about a 1000 miles from the topic of this column... Do try to get your lips away from the crack pipe before you type..

As for you Roguespear... Made ya look didn't it? How would you know where my head is planted when yours is so deeply entrenched in Endwhistler's butt? Bet you haven't taken a breath of fresh air in years have you?

What a pair of losers...

With amusement,

Silken

For those inquiring minds...judge for yourselves. Here is the link to the TELUS Idol Video. http://www.cupwnewvision.org/telusidol.htm

Well Ron and Wwood, you have neglected to answer any of the FACTS that have been presented to you. For the people who do not work at Telus, these two are a prime example of how the Telus leadership works. They will not answer a direct question and they will not deal with the facts presented to them. They live in a world of make belief refusing to see what's right in front of their noses. Telus has gone from a great company to a second rate one (at best) since Darren Entwistle and his gang of thugs have come aboard. Thanks so much Ron and Wwood for showing the public just how our leadership works at Telus.

Oh, life is wonderful isn't it.There are two stories on the Tyee about the Telus STRIKE.
I am sorry if I mixed them up. I guess I am too stupid to see the nuances that separate them.
Essentually there seems to be a STRIKE that is about an outdated CBA that applied to an old model of the workplace being the one that is favoured by the Union Leaders. Wheras Telus was trying to use a newer model based on current realities ( Google getting into the VOI business as well as needing to compete with Shaw for all 3 TV, Tel, Internet services on one cable )
Silken and others would not want us to know about the dramatic split within the TWU on this matter.
But alas, all is out in the open now.

Ron, Ron, Ron, You're still ignoring the facts. This article is not about the Telus LOCKOUT, it's about the Telus Idol Video and the character of the man running this company. We have also presented you with other incidences of Mr. Entwistles complete disregard for the law, the customers, and the employees. Once again you respond with Telus rhetoric. Telus's spin doctors keep on about the CBA being outdated and they just cannot compete.

Once again let's deal with the facts Ron....Telus is making record profits and Telus is one of the financial leaders in the telecom industry. Why can't they share this wealth and profit with their employees? This BS about the ever changing face of the telecom industry is a little hard to accept when Telus is doing so well. Should things change and the company does falter, we can look at it at that time. Right now, using this as an argument is ridiculous.

Do you really want to talk about the dramatic split Ron? OK....

fact number 1-Over 86% in favour of strike action. This speaks volumes on how the membership of this union feels. These are some real big numbers Ron and those that feel left out by the union should try to understand what democracy is all about. We do still live in a democratic society don't we Ron? Because I disagree with the GST can I just stop paying it?

fact number 2-a minority of bargaining unit employees have crossed the line. Telus like to put out this 50% number. I ask how this can be possible when over 50% of Telus employees are in BC and BC is locked out? Kinda makes one wonder just how this can be. There is a small division in the ranks of bargaining members but those who have crossed do not do so on "higher morale grounds" as they would lead you to believe. They are crossing for a few reasons, money, free meals, MP3 players, $30/day extra, free cell phone...etc. Kinda resembles those that they follow doesn't it? Profit at any cost. They are willing to sacrifice their reputation for some measly trinkets and extra cash.

Once again Ron, you've come to this forum, spewed the Telus rhetoric and ignored the facts. Once again you've attempted to lead us away from the original topic of this thread. Ron, we're talking about the lack of morals of Darren Entwistle. This video gives us an inside into just what the leaders of this company are all about. Their lack of respect shown in this video is also lacking towards both the customers and the employees of Telus. This is the truth for all to see but you and a select few still want to ignore the facts.

marc.; Atlast you admit it is a STRIKE. As far as Darren Entwistle is concerned, it doesn't really matter who the CEO is, you would be demonizing them even if he was Tommy Douglas( the greatest Canadian in history acoording to the CBC and look at thier situation )

Everybody... Please forgive Erwin... His hamster simply refuses to stay on the wheel despite the fact that he has lashed the poor little thing onto it and the only way he can make it run, is to recite his Company rhetoric!! Be grateful we are not the hamster!!!

Erwin... Instead of posting here, why don't you use your time to go look up the DECISION by the Canadian Industrial Relations Board who ruled that Telus has LOCKED OUT its employees...

Earlier in the year, there was a strike vote resulting in 86% but the Union DID NOT strike...

There is no such thing as a LOCKOUT VOTE!

Is Entwistle even a Canadian or is he here to trash one of our industries before he moves on to the next one in another country... Lemme see... Looks like he was resident in the UK before coming here in 2000...

Silken

Marc..... I really admire your patience with that fool of fools... Your years of gentle and compassionate service to the Telus clients are certainly coming in handy here aren't they?

He WON'T focus Marc... He can't cuz he is likely the guy who has the CN tower in his pants and is STILL trying to engrave the room number on his key for the female employee they were all harassing and demeaning in the Telus Idol video...

I wonder what all the executives' wives thought about their husbands sitting as judges at the Telus Idol fiasco? Do you suppose it was "okay" by them to hear that their husbands were making sexual comments and offers to the young ladies on stage that night? If that had been my husband, his executive butt would have been sitting on the curb waiting for a transit bus... But then, I just happen to believe that married men who go around making sexual offers to women half their age need a few old-fashioned wallops upside their heads with a frying pan...

Yah... good ole Erwin here... more and more, it looks like he was one of them...

Excellent post Marc...

Silken

I like Ron's postings. It saves me the time of reading BC or Alberta Reports.

Yah Eddy.. they are "amusing" if nothing else...

Silken

Yah Silken! There are more people out there like Ron than you can imagine. I think it comes from too much information and not enough thought. And people love lies so much that they actually BUY them in the form of crap literature, cheezy documentaries, and products that are advertised in the 'Wolrd Weekly News', and many other forms that all add up to corporate hype and 'let's make a buck at any cost!'.

Silken; your insults bore me, but obviously a lack of logical thought by yourself clouds your brain to the point that you feel it necessary to personally attack me.
This shows me how hopeless your cause is. If you have anything to do with the TWU leadership I would bet that this dispute will end the TWU. But I am happy to see that the TWU has divided itself into the radical left on one side and logical reasonable workers on the other side. I hope your side loses, I always hope that side loses. And I am proud to state that.

Wow Ron, you must have got really excited when you saw the word strike in my post, you grammar and typing went right out the door.

"OH! OH! OH! He typed the word strike, I've got him now."

Ron I was talking about the strike vote that was taken by the union. The union never acted on this strike vote. Nice try though Ron "Spin Doctor" Erwin. You stuck your foot in your mouth in your earlier posts but I'd say your past the knee and quickly approaching the hip now. Ron, thanks again for showing what the supporters of Darren Entwistle are all about. Mindless Buffoons who can't think a logical thought of their own. All they can do is repeat the Telus drivel and once they depart from that arena, they are truly lost.

Silken, I really believe some of the wives of these kinds of men are after the same thing as their husbands. Status, Power, Money. They're upper class you know. They will accept the odd affair or indiscretion just so they can reamin in that circle of "The Elite". Well they can have it, I certainly don't want it. I'm also sure there's a few out there that would make sure their husbands were minus a body part if they found out. You also have to ask what kind of woman ( The Idol Chicks) would accept that kind of abuse in the corporate world. I thought we had gone beyond that kind of treatment of women in this day and age.

Hey Ron, another little lesson here. This one is in Mathematics. 86% = majority. (very big majority). Afraid the TWU isn't going anywhere in the near future. But once again you chose to ignore the facts. Try real hard Ron to grasp the concept of a majority.

Let's see 86% one way 14% the other way. So 86 to 14 would be ahhhh, divive by 2, 43 to 7, oh darn, can't divide anymore...hmmm okay, 43 divided by 7 is about 6....so WOW, 6 to 1.

WE OUTNUMBER YOU RON!!!!

You and the rest of the rats following the Pied Piper Daren, will soon discover the truth.

Marc... You raise an interesting point and I so agree with you that the wives of these kinds of men seek the same "rewards" as their husbands.. but that isn't love is it? That's just "usery" in its purest form. If a woman is willing to accept her husband's philandering for the sake of the almight dollar and power, what makes her any different than a woman who sells her body for money?

I DO ask what kind of woman (The Idol Chicks) would accept that kind of abuse in the corporate world? Surveys have proven that a very high percentage of women have been sexually abused during their childhoods and don't even recognize sexual abuse for what it is until they have some form of therapy. The media also sexually abuses women in their constant insistence that a woman's value lies in her sex appeal.

In the corporate world, we have not moved forward much at all. I prepared a dissertation in my poli-sci class a few years ago titled "Women in Politics - The Longest War" which supported my belief that women have not moved forward at all. We still remain a very small percentage of the House of Representatives. Granted we can now attend Law schools but the stats bear out that we are still in a highly patriarchal system.

It all comes down to money & public perception. Women continue to be economically disadvantaged in our economy. Consider that women still make $.65 to every $1.00 men make and that the vast majority of women and children still live beneath the poverty line post-divorce while men are said to be economically-advantaged by a divorce. Women's lobby groups like "R.E.A.L. Women Now" also reinforce the idea that women should remain of the private domain rather than in power. Women in larger agricultural centres (we have a lot of those in Canada) also fail to support another woman's nomination into power BUT the nominations are higher in metropolitan areas where women are attending universities and becoming educated about this issue.

I worked in a law firm not long ago, where the senior partner had a few bimbos on staff just for his "viewing pleasure" and those of us who worked hard were rarely advanced.

Our forward movement is painfully slow... I am sad to say.. So women like those in the Idol have already figured out what it takes to get ahead..

Sad isn't it???

Silken

By the way, I should add... my highly-respected professor in my poli-sci course gave me both a 96$ on my well-researched paper and asked me if he could retain a copy of my paper... He and his wife are both Ph.D's & published authors...

Silken

lol... talk about a freudian slip!!! That was a 96%... lmao!!!

Silken

Is it lonely there in the swamp Erwin???

Why doesn't Telus give us what we really need? A walkie/talkie telephone that is connected to our favorite psychic hotline.

heheh...so what did you get the $96 for? Sorry, had to.

Yes I guess it is sad out there for the working woman. I guess it's all the "Big Boys" that just want to give the illusion that woman are getting equality...

Take it easy on poor Erwin....it's not easy being a sheep in the corporate world full of wolves. One day soon his world will come crashing down and maybe then he'll see the truth. But then again, maybe not....

Marc; what method was used to poll TWU workers to find out whether they would strike. And is 84% represent those in Alberta as well ?
And Silken' I wouldn't worry too much about the plite of women. They make up a majority of the University students in medicine, law and just about all othet proffessional degree courses.

Everything will be ok as soon as Hilary gets herself elected President and Billy becomes the nation's 1st First Gentleman.

Marc... c'mere and bring me something to beat you with...

Laughingly,

Silken

Marc just a quick note one of the women in the video did not really put up with it. If you look at the video again she called him a pr**k and said it again. I am not flaming you, the point I am trying to get a cross here is the fact that if you look at the faces of both women in the Telus Idol video, the expressions were that of. I'd like to kill you, you b*****d but I can't because my job would be gone. As far as I am concerned it was fear and resentment in their faces. I am a woman and I could feel it.

So, again Wwood and Ron what to do about you boys. Still can't comment on the Telus Idol? Afraid you might lose your job?

Erwin... We polled by having everyone light the person next to them on fire if they thought we should not strike... It was considered the "humane" thing to do considering the pain they would suffer if they chose to continue to work in the hell we called Entwistle's Telus...

Why does it not surprise me that you would not worry about the plight of women? You have about as much social conscience as a flea on a dog's butt Erwin..

Silken

Backatcha... good point you raise about the reaction of the "Idol Chicks"... "Shania" was brave enough to call the "horndawgs" what they were... But why that other one would lie down on the stage and writhe around to a corporate parody is beyond me... Again, I think it has to do with her knowing what she was REALLY there for... Chances are pretty good, she'd been out with the H.D.'s before that!!!

Erwin WON'T address it and Woody is apparently um... preoccupied.. I suspect he's busy under Erwin's desk and Erwin isn't letting him up to type...

Silken

Ron, this was a stike vote in both BC and AB. Yes it was a vote to show if the members would strike....ahhhh Ron, how many people are on the line right now? The 50% that Telus claims? I really don't think so. I talked to many of the members about this strike and there were few that supported Telus in any way, shape, or form. Those that did not are scabbing now. The numbers that support the TWU are there Ron no matter what you think, say, or insinuate. You're sailing in a sinking ship Ron...

Silken....errr I don't think so...well unless you pay me enough. Okay enough already. I was just trying to get into the scab mentality there....ewww, I have to go shower.

Good point Backatcha....they were disgusted and they did retaliate. Still for the life of me can't understand why they would still be working there? Oh yeah, money, prestige, power, etc...

"Erwin WON'T address it and Woody is apparently um... preoccupied.. I suspect he's busy under Erwin's desk and Erwin isn't letting him up to type...

Silken"

Maybe that's the reason for the typo's in Ron's post. I'm ty (head hits desk) ping a let (head hits desk) ter as fa (head hits desk) st as I ca (head hits desk) n

Marc; I asked how the workers were polled. I also asked if the 84% were thoses in BC only or is it BC and Alberta.
You skirted the question and responded with "this was a strike vote in both BC and Alberta. " What is the % in BC and what is the % in Alberta. Was the vote secret or what ?

Feeding, clothing, putting roof over kid's heads. Lifes necessities etc.

Previous post was in answer to Marc question about why women would do such things in Telus Idol.

Marc... thanks for the belly laff!!!

Silken

Ron are you just simple, if you want to know what the % was between BC and AB guess you should have been there and spoke up when the motion to destroy the ballots was introduced on the floor at that very meeting. Ooops sorry your not a BU employee so guess you weren't allowed to be there. And stop the BS about pitting AB and BC against each other.
Again telus crap. When are you guys going to recognize the fact that we truly are intellegent enough to know who you are and what you are doing. Get over yourself.

"thoses" Erwin?

doh...

Marc about the money, prestige and power. It could be they are providing the necessities of life for their children and could be fearful of losing their job.

Repeating myself there is a lag, could telus be having a censorship fit again?

Silken; so your highly repected professor in your poli-sci course gave you ninety six dollars for your paper. I would have thought he would have paid you more than that.

Erwin.... My highly-REPECTED (doh) prof gave me 96%... At least I NOTICE my typos!!!

Once again good point Backatcha....that would be a good job to lose and you would be labled for life (kinda like scabs)

Glad you have a sense of humour Silken...

Oh Ron, what are we going to do with you. I betcha you read this one and were going OH! OH! OH! again thinking I have him now.

First of all, 86% man, get the numbers right...sheesh, you can't even hold a thought from post to post.

Secondly I guess I misunderstood your line of thought there. I don't seperate Alberta and BC...we are one union. So when you asked I just assumed you would logically think it was both provinces. The total number of 86% was the vote combined between both provinces and as Backatcha stated, ballots were destroyed.

Hey Ron, did you attend any of the strike votes and if yes where? I went to all three in Edmonton on the South Side and then attended the final on at the ATA building on the north side. If you attended any of these meetings you would most certainly not be asking the questions you're asking. In the first one in Edmonton, Telus had their plants making a stink but in the end they were booed and could not be heard. The other meeting had a very definate anti Telus sentiment and the solidarity shown at these (standing room only) meetings showed support for the TWU not Telus.

But Ron, you keep that foot of yours in your mouth (buried right to the hip now....remember the snake who ate it's tail Ron). You keep believing what the Telus leadership tells you. Unfortunately no matter how many times McArthur, Radford, you and the rest of the spin doctors try to say that the TWU is weak, the FACT is we are very strong and we have the backing of many unions in Canada as well. Darren and his gang of thugs will not win over the TWU.

marc.; thanks for answering my question, the vote was not secret. That should be against the law.

I do not work for Telus but I do work for a large corporation. Yes, I admit it. Middle management fatcat, part of the imminent destruction of the free world. As difficult as it may be to some, my coworkers in comparable non union positions make around the same money and have similar benefits to Telus’s unionized staff. Maybe not the six weeks of holidays or stock purchase plan but relatively close. This is not because of a union, it is because we need to pay market rates to get and keep the right people. Our company has choices and our employees have choices.
At our office we do not have the need to be so overly politically correct, we don’t work with people like some on this forum who would twist an otherwise good natured teasing into some capital incident. I finally looked at the video this morning.
The Telus idol video. The linch pin of the twu’s holier than thou last gasp attempt to discredit an industry leading corporation and deflect attention from their own leadership shortcomings. Now you have really hit rock bottom. You are showing the rest of the world how truly desperate your situation must be.
It looks like any other corporate party including the requisite couple of people who had a few too many drinks. By the way I happen to recognize the loudest guy and he is not even an employee of Telus. Not sure why he would have been there anyway but whatever. Have you never been to an office Christmas party or heard stories of lampshades on the head, political blunders, because they drank too much. Probably not. You don’t seem like the type that would socialize outside of your little cynical clique. I mean really what would you possibly talk about. I hardly think those isolated incidents would normally be accepted as representative of the character of an organization. I did not see one instance of Darren Entwistle doing anything inappropriate whatsoever. In fact I saw a rather proper CEO dancing on the stage with a group of employees in a clearly fun atmosphere. I was expecting to see some devil with horns, whip, a red cape and large erection making people bow at his feet while demanding virgins to be sacrificed. Your description of some female ‘writhing’ at his feet was no more than a 5 second piece of a women dancing and ending up momentarily on the floor. Cmon really!
As far as supposedly degrading comments, these are clearly peers of a tight team who are comfortable kidding and teasing each other. I’m sure if you had any experience on a sports team or any other team, you would know that the people closest to each other are the ones that seem to take the most ‘shots’ at each other. I wouldn’t expect you to understand but I think most people reading this can relate. This is likely the reason that you people don’t mix out of your little circle. cont.

I know you all would rather we all plodded through the streets in our dull grey uniforms, all the same pay, all the same homes, all the same cars. That would be the fair way. No upper class, no lower class. Might I suggest communist China.
Instead of looking at life as the glass being half empty all of the time think about it being half full. Look around while you plod the pavement. Look at the people going about their lives generally appreciative of what they have. News flash! Life’s not easy and there are no guarantees.
You should plead to get your hairy butts (you to men) back in those buildings as fast as you can while theres still a chance. If you truly believe that they can move your job elsewhere (shows how little value you place on your role) why are you practically forcing them to do it? I am sure they are already finding out they can do without a lot of you as time goes on.

Erwin... The only thing that should be against the law is our having to suffer your continuing ignorance... and... arrogant elitists with no moral values...

You did however, give us the opportunity to publicize a great deal more of the facts surrounding the Telus Idol embarrassment and the conditions we have worked in while your buddies try to take undue credit. You also very clearly showed your unwillingness to address the topic of this entire thread despite your being asked to do so numerous times... We thank you for showing the public the kind of ignorance behind the mask of the elite...

We thank you for this wonderful opportunity...

Silken

barry this is but one of the many blunders Darren has made. I've also seen behaviour of this type back in the day when I worked the oil patch. You have to realize that this video was to be used for motivational purposes within the company and managers were told to order it. All these "rig pigs" I worked with back in the day at least had the common sense to not tape their transgressions.

Yes companies pay the same rate but many more pay less. Many from the department where I come from came being thankful to have that "union job". Now they scab. I also know of companies that pay close to and have good benefits. This is not the point. These people chose to hire into a union shop and as such should follow the rules of that union. The cardinal rule of the union environment is, "DO NOT SCAB"

You remember the recent debacle with the NFL team and their training video??? Sure a bunch of players having a good time. I've been in locker rooms too. You forget to talk about the big difference here, I've never taped those goings on and tried to use them as rah rah tapes. Very very big difference.

Finally, this labour dispute is not about money. It's not about benefits. It's not about holidays. It's not about contracting out. It's about our company dictating to us what we have to accept. We have been told that we have to accept this agreement....bargaining is over. Telus has been found guilty of bargaining in bad faith and they continue to this day to do so. Just this week I received yet another glossy package from Darren himself extolling the virtues of this new contract. Sorry Darren, send it to my elected bargaining committee. Funny you mention communist China isn't it. I hear that's exactly how it is in China....do as your told or else. Kinda like Darren's Fit In or F**k Off motto don't you think?

barryb, it was telus that made public the telus idol video. The TWU stated that it would keep it private, but Drew spoke of its existence in one of his Baghdad Bob speeches. From there is when all the public interest came around. So please apologize to all the fine TWU members for slighting them with your 'holier than thou' frothing at the mouth insinuation.

barryb been there, done that, got the f**k*n T shirt. Who the hell are you to call us down and tell us we have a "cynical clique" who crowned you King Puke of the forum. Just for a little bit of background just for you I graduated high school in the 70's and I know all about the "rig pig" mentality as well I sang in a rock band then, so there is nothing about partying that is new to me and I can party hardy with the big boys and probably show you a thing or two about how to party.

What has been talked about here if you care to inform yourself and read the whole thread before bindly jumping in as though you are some great all knowing Grand Poobah. The fact of the matter is as Marc stated quite well, is that we are talking about a culture, an underlying current in Telus, that I have NOT seen by the way, since the 70's. We are not a bunch of overly sensitive politically correct whinners. We know more now, and should a least be respectful in our workplace minimally, and are supposed to be civilized and not animals what you described in your post was out of control partying it is not acceptable. That was not a stag party. Suppose you suggest the next time that you are at the office party that you are going to video tape it. Bet my whole years wages that no one would misbehave. Now what does that say. If there would be evidence then people behave as they should. Interesting little thought isn't it? So is it acceptable behaviour? I too have been to many office parties and have noticed something really interesting when the top brass leave with their wives, the party starts to get wilder, interesting. Is this voluntary behaviour or is it controlled? Things that make you say Hmmmmmm.

What we have been talking about for many posts in this thread is about a cancer that is at the executive level of Telus. There are past managers who quit because of the culture in Telus they are now aligning themselves with the Union and their ideals. As Marc mentioned the "Telus Idol" video is just the tip of the iceberg, with this bunch of corporate whores, and I do mean this with the greatest respect because I could have said worse. If you want politically correct go to another forum.

Darren Entwistle exploded into this company of which by the way was built originally in Alberta by the tax payers of Alberta (just a little trivia for you). This phone company was known as AGT at the time, in 1980 it was the most advanced phone system in North America,I had call waiting in the late 80's you didn't if you were anywhere else in Canada. The tax payers of the province of Alberta paid for all of the infastructure that is still operational today. I worked Installation and Repair in rural Alberta in the 80's we were the ones that piloted the mobility phones in our trucks. In BC the same was true which later merged with Telus in 2000.

Continued next post

Along comes Entwistle guns ablaze and announces FiFo (FIT IN OR **** OFF), he later states that in Europe they are more blunt but it didn't matter how he said it the message was clear. If you went against the grain you were out and it is great to say oh just find another job, but do you know what it is like to find a job in your late 40's and early 50's? Some people were closed to retirement kinda hard starting over don't you think? There are issues around pensions etc.(by the way etc. is a word used in our offer from Telus now, oops off topic) He has only been the CEO for five years and has caused so much fear and intimidation of job loss and outsourcing, and made it very clear that the union busting tactics would ensue.

The PR spin doctors have, I must admit, done a marvelous job of letting the public know just what they want them to know. And another point that you also don't know oh grand one is the fact that the TWU kept this "Telus Idol" fiasco quiet, and made an agreement with Telus that they would not say anything about the video for the benefit of all concerned, so that the bargaining could continue for the good of the membership. That's when Telus decided that the "Respectful Workplace Course" be implemented for ALL employees. Now I ask you bbarry would you like to have to take a course when you had nothing to do with the incident?? Would you like to be forced to watch a bunch of drunken disrespectful jerks as part of your job as a sales person?? You know what has been said in the past, about people acting out as truly who they are when they are drinking. Furthermore we never stated that it is all of the executive in the company but the select few that displayed such behavior unfortunately they are the ones in power. If you listen close enough in the video, there were gasps and boos in the audience, even some of the people in attendance were not impressed. So take your all knowing attitude and stuff it where the sun don't shine. When you have more facts to support your views then go for it but until then..............

barryb a great empire fell because of reasonable accepting attitudes from human beings who would not stand up for integrity, respect and dignity.

It's okay be one of the guys in the locker room or part of a "tight team" as you so aptly brought forth in your justification.

So tell me why did one of the women in the video call one of the judges a prick?? I don't think by the expression on her face that it was an endearing comment.

Whew Backatcha... YOU GO GIRL!!!

Silken

Another thing barryb insofar as your statement about getting the right people at market rate, how the hell do you think the market rate was established in the first place? It was unions that fought for the fair wages and yes did it go to far sometimes, but over all before the inception of unions there was child labour and adults being treated like slaves. But, you now buy into the corporate rhetoric about the need for us all to move forward because these are all old notions. I certainly hope that you do not have children because the future is not as bright as you may think Mr. my glass is half full, you continue in your fairy land because in the future it will be truly defined as who are the HAVES and who are the HAVE NOTS and I hope your chidren are in the later category because if they are not then you will regret things that you have or have not done.

Isn't it interesting cheap child labour is popular again, big American and Canadian companies contracting out to Mexico for manufacturing of products, Hmmmm. If you take a look at what the wages were 20 years ago compared to now you will find less and less disposable income plus the fact that most families have two people working and therefore breaking down the family unit. We wonder why there are more and more kids in trouble, the parents are so tired and working long hours but we don't need unions right? And the market rate is great right? And your comment about 6 weeks holidays I certainly don't get 6 weeks. Like I said you should come to the battle armed.

It seems to me one has to work at Telus for 8 years to have 6 weeks holidays tho' I guess I should look it up to be sure. People who have started with Telus Mobility in the past 4 and 1/2 years earn $16.14 per hour. That is $31,473 per year. They net approximately $1,950.00 per mth or $975.00 per pay. That is IF Telus doesn't screw up their payroll and forget to deduct something for a long period of time. I am not sure who is making $4000 per mth but it sure isn't anyone with less than 5 years in... which is most of us... most of the senior reps are long gone. Even in the class I trained in of 14, there are only 4 remaining as is the case with most of the new classes...

Just a few facts for those watching....

Silken

8 years and 6 weeks vacation ? wow

Barryb, you have said it all.

Silken, sorry to hear that you guys have to pay tax on your income. This is horrifying. I notice you haven’t quoted anyone else’s income net of taxes. You should really be lobbying to have yourselves excluded from that. After all real world rules should not apply to your group. Certainly anyone reading this would understand that.

Eight years and you get 4 weeks vacation I believe.

Hey I remember a Barry B. that used to work for Telus. Guy worked his way up the corporate ladder right from the gound floor. I remember one of the BA's talking about this Barry B. and saying what a great fellow he was before the Entwistle era. She asked him one day why he became such an A**hole....he told her that times change and it's what's wanted these days (or something to taht effect). I also remember attend a info session with this same Barry B. and the man wouldn't answer my questions after a while. Moved to the middle of the room (I was in front) and gave me his back for the rest of the session. Cornered him on one topic and he told me to talk to him after and when I did he basically told me to get lost. Yeah, it was a human rights complaint where an employee became suicidal and Telus would not help him. Instead they forced him back to work and harrassed him constantly. Almost lost the fellow....Anyhow I'm sure it's just a coincidence that a Barry B. would come to the defense of Telus....couldn't be the same Barry Baptie from T & O.

Evil, evil Telus, they are trying to kill off their employees. How horrific it must be reporting to work everyday, I don't know how you do it. You must truly be a brave soul. Or stupid.

Sounds to me like fifo is hardly limited to the corporation. It is obviously apparent that fifo is alive and well and key facet of union life. Why else would there be the vicious treatment of those union members who have decided that their union leadership is no longer representing their values. Just look at the pro twu posts to see how ingrained fifo is.

The twu members who have decided to work are more voicing their opinion of their leadership or lack thereof than any shortterm monetary gains. At least they have the courage to do the ‘fo’ of fifo amid the bullying and intimidation of the union. To bad the same can not be said for those who have no interest in’fi’ with the company. Tribunals and the like (sure). It will be interesting what history shows on the implications of the twu’s ‘inquisition’. Like all the other rhetoric I suspect it will be just that. We’ll see. The longer this goes on however the less chance there will be to fifo. At that point there may be some who are wondering how bad it might have been to ‘fi’ to one organization versus the other.

Wwood; ????????????????

Awwww Erwin & Wwood.. here together.. isn't that cute??? You make great bookends with your tin cans for hearts, your rocks for brains and your eternally flapping mouths... Reminds me of those lil "yup-yup" dogs with the nodding heads we used to put in the back windows of our cars... Do your eyes light up??? And aren't your boyfriends tired of dusting around you yet???

Ron,
If you unfamiliar with FIFO (fit in or ‘f’ off) it was an expression (used once to my knowledge) when talking initially about the change in culture required to transform a 100 year old regional monopoly phone company into a national global leader in Data/IP and wireless.
To accomplish this goal, a clear, focused strategy was laid out as was a set of values required to accomplish this goal. Incidentally this is the same consitant strategy and values we abide by today. Basically it was communicated that if you want to be part of the ride, get on the bus, if not, now’s the time to get off. Most people got on the bus and have enjoyed a great ride. Others who should have had the courage to get off did not do so. Instead they got on and complained bitterly about the ride all along. There have been opportunities to get off during the ride with very generous buy-out and voluntary separation plans. But what would some (I say some because the vast majority of the twu are honest hardworking people who share the company values and I can’t wait for those people to come back) of these people do for gods sake if they couldn’t tag along and complain The union has made a huge issue around FIFO as they are like to do. My post was around the irony of the fuss they have made about this given that this FIFO mentality is even more rampant and ingrained in the twu.
They would never see it that way because some refuse to take of the tainted glasses.

Ron and Wwood glad to see you both back. Now, will you answer the direct questions that have been asked over and over and over again? I will not retype them as I may exert myself as a union member in good standing. By the way Wwood insofar as a "global leader in Data/IP", if you care to read above a few of my posts the "old regional monopoly phone company" was the most innovative and advanced phone company in North America in the early 80's and has the infrastructure to support your "new" innovations today, without it, you would all be starting from scratch like a lot of the competitors, so cry me a river. Telus was built on the taxpaying dollars of the citizens of both Alberta and BC. I worked for AGT, so you can spew all of your corporate rhetoric that you so desire but people who have the background with this company know better, and know who built it from the ground up.

I really don't mind any company making a dollar, and my union co-workers don't mind either, that is how our economy works, myself and others are willing participants. When it becomes a bunch of "pigs at the trough" though, then that is quite a different matter. That is exactly what this is. You too have been fooled, and you company executives are no different than we are, you just drive a fancier car, mortgage a more expensive house, all you do is ad a couple of zeros and poof your an executive (and don't get your shorts in a knot I am well aware that you are educated and worked hard, by the way I have a college education too) I can't wait for the day when they start outsourcing your jobs to the young and savvy new executives. If you think that you are immune to this, I am sitting here smiling, stay in your nice little bubble, and when you are fifty something and someone wants to push you out, as you will then be the guy who is working for the "old Data/IP company". By the way your skills won't be marketable then. Why do you ask? Not because your not smart enough, because that’s how life is when you have so much on your plate paying the bills, raising your family, time flies when your having fun, overwhelmed with life’s trials and tribulations. You will not have kept up, yes with a few courses here and there, but this will not be the "new innovative think" for the time.

Continued from previous post

Just so you know, this is done by pure design and it is the corporate way. Is there a pattern here? Maybe at that time you will be wishing that you had a group of people to help you stand up to the corporation and help you fight for your rights, because you still need to put maybe 5 years in and then you could retire comfortably. Would that be a Union?

The way things have been going in the last 20-30 years since the "computer age" began we all have been subjected to being controlled by the very medias that we have invented. Now we are in our homes in front of our TVs and computers and do not know our neighbors, we couldn't get much of a protest going on pretty much of anything, not the volume of the 60's and 70's. What a way to control a civilization so that they do not ever get out of control like that again Hmmmmm. Makes you wonder doesn't it? Unions are the last bastion of this "civil disobedience". Would there be a need to get rid of them? Hmmmm

So time will tell in your careers as to how things will go, but from my experience the past has usually dictated future behavior there really is nothing new, just a few little twists here and there. I like my line, you are either the "Enslaver" or you are the "Enslavee". Kinda sums it up don't ya think??? Who knows maybe things will all be different for you both, maybe, maybe not! Anyone willing to hedge any bets?

I am sorry for you that your outlook on life is that you’re either an enslaver or an enslavee. That explains a lot.

You’re correct that taxpayers largely paid for the basic infrastructure. So that put copper in the ground. Taxpayers have not funded much of this enterprise since the era you are still seem to think we are operating in. It’s what has been done with that copper and the national fibre and wireless network that is important. You know the old saying, “it’s not what got it’s what you do with it”. That is first the result of a clear strategic vision and then execution by a committed team. Make no mistake this is a team effort. The only people I hear that seem to vary on this opinion is the twu. If you listen to the posts on here it is strictly them that built this company. Surely even you must agree that this is a team effort combining strategic vision as well as execution (us). This company has achieved more in the last 5 years than has been achieved in the last 20. It is a rock solid foundation for the future and there is lots of room for everyone to enjoy and take part in the future success.

I never have and never will rely on anyone other than myself for my worth in the job market. No one union or non can be saved from a company in distress. Maybe you’ll be OK because the layoffs may have to happen starting with the most junior. I guess you’re OK with sacrificing the young. Doesn’t seem very uniony to me.
You will never hear me saying “I haven’t been trained on this”. I will go out and attain the skills necessary to be a key contributor. So far TELUS has been very supportive in a number of ways rewarding that initiative. I do this because I completely realize that I could be replaced by someone better. That’s competition. That’s the world we live in. I am OK with it, and will prepare myself and my family the best I can to prosper in it.

WOW!!! Ron and Wood! Once again you resort to name calling and your insenssitivity towards the sick is appalling. But once again you've exhibited the same mentality of those who run Telus, FIFO at it's best. Thanks again for showing the public the mentality of this company. Nobody at Telus tried to kill anybody. They would not respect the medical needs of many many employees to the detriment of these employees health. This company feels that the sick are a burden and try to exit them in any way possible. Also you've once again taken an issue that is a problem at Telus and pointed the finger at the union. Kinda reminds me of my children when they've done something wrong. But Johnny did it too...But Son, Johnny is not my child, you are and you have to take responsibility for your actions. We in the union are well aware of the problems within and we are dealing with them everyday. Not a one of us in the union are so arrogant to think that there is not a need for improvement and therein lies the difference between the union and this company. The new company motto should be,

TELUS, WHERE WE DO NO WRONG!!! (it really was the fires, the heat, the power outages, etc etc etc)

Wwood I wasn't asking for your pathetic attempt at sympathy. I happen to be a realist and when I made the statement "you are either the Enslaver or you are the Enslavee" it was that, just a statement no emotion, it is what it is. I quite accept it, it really is the way this mud ball runs economically.

It is you that injected the emotion, not I.

Are you bothered by the statement maybe?

It cuts close to the bone doesn’t it? I know you are an integral part of a "team", hope they keep you around for a long time! And I certainly hope that you don't have to "market your skills" or display your "worth in the job market" when you are late 40 or 50 something.

Is that all you can come up with?

Was my example to you both above in my other post possibly a potential truism?

When did Telus become a company in distress with 248 million dollars net profit and if this figure is slightly wrong, oh well, close enough. Or you can pick that apart as well and tag on an insincere apology again.

One more thing can you please figure out which side of the fence you are on, I am in a bit of a quandary by your statement of "I guess you’re OK with sacrificing the young. Doesn’t seem very uniony to me" I did not say that. I think you better go back and read that again! I was talking about the company opting for fresh blood after they are done with you boys.

By the way in no shape or form did I ever say that it was not the whole of the employees of the company that built this company, everyone did it, you too are an employee are you not or do you sign your own paycheck? You certainly inject your own data and emotion when it suits you. You also assume an awful lot, you know what that does!!

Another little point of interest except for road construction, new subdivisions, new businesses and repair you are correct in the following statement except for;

"You’re correct that taxpayers largely paid for the basic infrastructure. So that put copper in the ground. Taxpayers have not funded much of this enterprise since the era you are still seem to think we are operating in".

one little bitty piece of information that you forgot (or omitted) the whole system in Alberta was all done and upgraded, I know because I was on one of the upgrade crews. Taxpayers turned over a telephony system that was upgraded at their expense; the maintenance was very low and still is you would not have wanted to have taken it over before the upgrades were done.

It must be depressing to the employees of TELUS to see they jobs evaporating in front of their eyes while heartless hardcore unionists waste their energy fighting to win pointless arguments in forums.

The TWU does not represent the employees of TELUS it represents the TWU. The isolated uneducated and narrow minded leadership are self centred and only interested to the well being of the union not the membership.

For five years the TWU have not bargained with TELUS, they have not tried to find a way forward together with the company to ensure success for the employees. They do not care about the employees.

The alleged lie: “we are locked out” is pathetic; the union took the members out on strike the day before the new contract was to be implemented. This will go down in the annuls of history as probably the worst tactical blunder in labour relations history.

The union has one rather meagre objective; to stop change. How can you even slow the pace of change when you are not there? How can you overpower a superior force using a frontal strategy?

In truth these clowns made the decision to take the members out because they had already lost, they had not been engaged in meaningful dialogue and they had nowhere to go and no imagination to come up with a more creative approach. In conflict you always lose even as the winner, through collaboration everyone can win.

The union is now in a terrible position; they are out on the streets and have no way back, many of the jobs which they are supposed to be protecting are now being proven redundant. Many of the processes which protected huge swathes of employment are themselves being overturned, exposed and seen as what they really are; make work projects.

Why would the company have multiple dispatch centres?

Why would they run their own fleet?

Why would a telecom company own a print works?

Why would they do their own janitorial work?

Why would the same order be re-keyed 4 times before it is dispatched?

Why would multiple trucks roll to the same site to install a simple service?

Why would an organization sustain call centres or any other work in locations where the work pool is limited, militant, poorly motivated and has proved to be unproductive?
I believe in unions, I believe in the balance they should bring in the work-place and believe in the power of a consolidated voice. This union is just not very good and should be judged on its performance and that performance has been immature, out of date and ineffective for the employee.

The employees are becoming increasingly aware of this as evidenced by streams of people returning to work. More union members are asking hard questions of the information they have been given, they are seeing lies and incongruity in the statements of the union.

To keep the members inline the union resorts to threats and intimidation, does this sound like an group which is really going to win anything? In reality the question is how badly will they lose, how many jobs will leave BC, how many lives will they wreck.

One thing is certain that they are not talking to the company and they are not trying to negotiate their way out of this situation. They have fat pockets filled with their members’ money and it has been burning a hole for far too long. The leadership have let their members down.

They have not given the members a vote on the company offer. Why? They are using an ancient strike mandate. Why? Surely something this important in the lives of the members would have been confirmed before such a momentous act if you really cared about what the majority of members wanted.

The members seem to be on the street for no reason, to achieve nothing and with no strategy to get back to work.

The geniuses in the union leadership respond with master stroke of trying to reduce the reputation of the company, trying to drive away revenue and trying to sully the relationships to the customers. Less revenue equals less jobs - what a ridiculous plan that is unless the union doesn’t care about their members jobs or their members.

WAY TO GO BLACKADDER!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly the only ones that will hear and understand you are Wwood and Ron

and as you said time will show what an exercise in futulity the labour "situation" is and how much irreparable damage it will ultimately do to the members

Blackadder says:

"Why would an organization sustain call centres or any other work in locations where the work pool is limited, militant, poorly motivated and has proved to be unproductive"?

I guess that really says it all now doesn't it. So those on the front line have had no input into the success of "Team Telus". I had a little hope and faith that maybe this was not true. You have proved it now without a shadow of a doubt what management thinks of it's employees and the management attitude.

I will not even try to rebutt anything else as there is no point, you said it all very well.

Backatacha,

Blackadder says:

"Why would an organization sustain call centres or any other work in locations where the work pool is limited, militant, poorly motivated and has proved to be unproductive"?

Read: BC folks, not Alberta

bet you are on the BC side--boo hoo

Backatcha. Thank you for your complement.

Productivity of money invested is the measure of value in the corporate world. Over time it turns out to be a pretty fair measure and certainly when you (if you) invest your earnings in companies I am sure you do not invest in companies who look like they will do badly and lose your money.

At a micro scale it is a fact that some of the workforce is more productive and thus more valuable to the mission of an organization. It therefore is logical to expect that when decisions are made this is a major factor in those decisions.

The main thrust contained in my posting is that the leadership of the union have betrayed the membership through being self serving rather than representing their membership.

That through lack of imagination they have put their membership’s lifestyle at risk and do not possess a plan to get these people back to work.

That they have chosen a blatantly stupid strategy which can only have one outcome, they have therefore increased the pace of the changes they oppose and are now resorting to bullying tactics against their membership as their last semblance of support wanes.

If they are rock solid they would have already put the offer to the vote. They won’t because they think they will lose. They spend too much time focusing on attacking personalities and not enough time working to an appropriate outcome.

Oh jeez...another one comin on line. Ron, Wwood, Barry B. and now balckadder. I got about a third of the way trough your post and just gave up. You make all the same BS claims that the people before you made. You just don't get it do you. 86% in favour. This give the TWU a very powerful and supportive mandate on what we expect of them. The 14 % can't live with this fact and as such have become scabs blaming the TWU for their dispicable actions stating "they were not represented." DEMOCRACY PEOPLE!!!! A while ago communist China was brought up as an example and I see that is what you want to. Let's ignore 86% of the TWU membership and cater to you and the other spineless scabs. All the questions you ask can be asked by Telus if they just return to the bargaining table, or accept binding arbitration, or accept a special mediator....

Well I read it all the way through this time Blackbladder. Just one this to say....hahahahaha, you're kidding right? What a long and drawn out pile of crap you wrote. Same this as all the others (and for that matter Telus spin doctor rhetoric) Can't you guys come up with something new, something original, something...well meaningfull.

roguespear says:

bet you are on the BC side--boo hoo

There again proof that you all seem to have at least one thing in common, you assume.
If you had cared enough to at least sound as though you have some intellegence to read anything above in this thread you would have at least identified the fact that I am from Alberta.

But of course, the modus operandi of glib assumptions again.

Blackadder is there a new version of the "telus rhetoric" I am a bit bored with seeing the same thing over and over again displayed here. Can you get a bit more creative, I certainly would appreciate it.

Marc

It is impressive that you managed to get all the way though alone. Well done.

For the record I do not work for TELUS and I am not paid by TELUS but it is interesting to watch the gross stupidity of this union unfolding.

To your comment - Currently you have 100% of BC membership on the streets; you have less than 46% in Alberta and next to nothing elsewhere.

The BC people will soon be given the chance to work, a proportion of those will cross, we can both speculate on the number but it is immaterial.

TELUS has a larger number of union workers outside of BC than in BC. During the strike vote the result was manipulated using the prevailing rules to avoid non sympathetic members voting either through the rules of voting entitlement or by the inhospitality of the voting arrangements. (Locations, timings, no secret ballot and aggressive hostility)

It is interesting those people expressing dissention within the TWU ranks become insulted and threatened for following their conscience. This truly doesn’t sound like democracy.

Despite this you really aren’t getting to the main point; the members of the TWU are on the street because of a lacklustre inadequate leadership who have not been supporting the needs of the membership well. I am not against unions at all; this union is clueless and self-serving.

1. They have chosen a stupid strategy to stop change (their only objective). It is clearly impossible to stop or slow the pace of change when you are absent and withering on the sidewalk.

2. If you are not in dialogue you can not influence outcomes. No one is talking to them now or is likely to soon. In fact the last 5 years have been a farce with zero progress, zero pay rises, zero negotiated benefit and many lost jobs. If these cretins represented your child’s sports team you would have fired them.

3. The work and practices which they are protecting are in many cases being proved superfluous to the future of the business. They have continued to fight for them despite clear Darwinian decay, technology has moved on they have not. The members will pay the price for not being retrained and moved into valuable roles. Many of these jobs do not have currency out in the job market as no other company would behave this way.

4. They have made the fight personal. Replaced substance with vitriol which has polarized the dispute and makes resolution so much harder.

5. They are trashing the company, its products and services, they are impacting customers and they are trying to negatively impact revenue. Revenue = jobs. Less revenue = less jobs.

Blackadder says:

To your comment - Currently you have 100% of BC membership on the streets; you have less than 46% in Alberta and next to nothing elsewhere.

So if you don't work for telus then where did you get this little gem.

There is nothing in the press on 46%.

Blackadder says:

TELUS has a larger number of union workers outside of BC than in BC. During the strike vote the result was manipulated using the prevailing rules to avoid non sympathetic members voting either through the rules of voting entitlement or by the inhospitality of the voting arrangements. (Locations, timings, no secret ballot and aggressive hostility)

Where you there? Since you don't work for telus how did you get this little gem.

This was not in the press either.

Inspector Clouseau (backatcha)

Being informed doesn't mean being employed.

This information is easily available and commonly known within TELUS.

Thank you for corroborating the facts.

You must be real "tight" with "team telus" !!

You are quite welcome don't mind a bit!

Marc

It is impressive that you managed to get all the way though alone. Well done.

"I love it when a person starts with an insult. It usually means I’ve touched a nerve.”

For the record I do not work for TELUS and I am not paid by TELUS but it is interesting to watch the gross stupidity of this union unfolding.

“So you work for Wilcox or AFI? Some company who pays you who in turn is paid by Telus to cast doubt within both the public and the union. Yes people, Telus has hired many firms whose sole purpose it to spread misinformation and break the union."

To your comment - Currently you have 100% of BC membership on the streets; you have less than 46% in Alberta and next to nothing elsewhere.

"Where do you get your numbers from? Telus tells us 50% you tell us 46% some others say 60%. I’ve seen the numbers for our Local and they are not bad at all."

The BC people will soon be given the chance to work, a proportion of those will cross, we can both speculate on the number but it is immaterial.

"So why did you bring it up?"

TELUS has a larger number of union workers outside of BC than in BC. During the strike vote the result was manipulated using the prevailing rules to avoid non sympathetic members voting either through the rules of voting entitlement or by the inhospitality of the voting arrangements. (Locations, timings, no secret ballot and aggressive hostility)

"Wow lots of big words to say nothing. All members in BC and Alberta were able to vote. This will be the new angle now? The vote was fixed. B.S."

It is interesting those people expressing dissention within the TWU ranks become insulted and threatened for following their conscience. This truly doesn’t sound like democracy.

"Excuse me but we have a democracy in the TWU. The majority (and a very large majority at that) has given the TWU leaders their full confidence to do what is necessary in this labour dispute. It is these scabs who will not honour and respect the democratic ways of the union. We voted…the vote said strike….we are now on the streets…you call it a strike, I call it a lockout. The majority has spoken so please spare me this bullsh!t."

Despite this you really aren’t getting to the main point; the members of the TWU are on the street because of a lacklustre inadequate leadership who have not been supporting the needs of the membership well. I am not against unions at all; this union is clueless and self-serving.

"86%...enough said on that. I think the TWU leadership has some pretty damn good upport. If the crybabies don’t like it, they can all get involved and change it. Otherwise shut the F up. "

1. They have chosen a stupid strategy to stop change (their only objective). It is clearly impossible to stop or slow the pace of change when you are absent and withering on the sidewalk.

You’re kidding right….you can’t possibly be this stupid. They are protecting the ways of unions across Canada. Why is it that CUPW, CUPE, AB fed, BC Fed, Teamsters, Nurses, NDP, etc etc etc. have given us unequivocal support. This kind of change that Telus seeks is one which will eliminate collective bargaining. They have violated rules of bargaining as set out by the CIRB. Need I go on? This has discussed again and again but I guess like others on this site you chose to ignore cold hard facts.

2. If you are not in dialogue you can not influence outcomes. No one is talking to them now or is likely to soon. In fact the last 5 years have been a farce with zero progress, zero pay rises, zero negotiated benefit and many lost jobs. If these cretins represented your child’s sports team you would have fired them.

The only thing correct in this paragraph is that someone would have been fired. It would have been Entwistle though not the union leadership. He’d have us playing baseball with 6 kids instead of 9 because we can save a couple bucks on uniforms. Again you ignore cold hard facts and again this has been discussed to death. There are many facts out there to substantiate our claims, they’ve been provided yet you chose to ignore them. Entwistle has tried to implement a NON NEGOTIATED CONTRACT!!! I have received this so called offer 3 times and all 3 times I have ignored it. Until this maniac goes though the procedures as set out in Canada’s labour laws I cannot accept a contract no matter how good it is. You speak of democracy yet this goes against everything that a democracy is. We voted to the tune of 86%. Democratically that would indicate to me that Telus can stick it.

3. The work and practices which they are protecting are in many cases being proved superfluous to the future of the business. They have continued to fight for them despite clear Darwinian decay, technology has moved on they have not. The members will pay the price for not being retrained and moved into valuable roles. Many of these jobs do not have currency out in the job market as no other company would behave this way.

Blah, blah, blah, more big words and again no substance. Mr. Entwistle recently cut 6,000 jobs to the detriment of both the customers and the remaining employees. Oh sure big D, there were no layoffs though were there

4. They have made the fight personal. Replaced substance with vitriol which has polarized the dispute and makes resolution so much harder.

Damn right it’s personal. This maniac has taken a company that was first class in every way and he’s gutted it. I’m ashamed since Mr. Entwistle has come on board.

5. They are trashing the company, its products and services, they are impacting customers and they are trying to negatively impact revenue. Revenue = jobs. Less revenue = less jobs.

Record profits once again for the quarter. Give me a break. More of the Telus lies. I work directly with the customers and I’ve seen many lost because we cannot offer quality products or service. We stink because of what this man has done to the company.

Blackadder,

Would you sign a contract that was FORCED on you, with No negotiation from a company that is thrice guilty of "Unfair Labour practises"? One that gives Managers unlimited control over your personal time by implimenting Manditory Overtime, takes away some of our basic human rights as outlined in the Charter Of Rights and Freedoms and has the word ETC in it?
Cause if you were willing to sign such a disgusting contract that would make you right in line for a high paying job at TELUS.
If you think that our union is self serving then you arent looking at the big picture. My Values are above Value. I cant be bought with Pancake breakfasts and a refurbished P.O.S I-pod.
I will give you props on your ability to write a good piece, but you need to do some research on both sides before you comment. I would say that you clearly have not done your homework on this at all...

Cheers...

Alcologne

You make a great point, the contract which has been implemented at TELUS was not offered to you as a vote, was not negotiated and may have elements with are undesirable to you. This underlines the point I am making; this union leadership is incompetent.

For 5 years they have achieved nothing at the negotiation table, this contract was first offered at the table nearly 2 years ago for discussion. There were no discussions of merit, no counter offers made which identified the key negotiation points and no productive conversations.

The childish antics of the union negotiation team in the meetings with the company are legendary, I am sure it was funny at the time but I am also sure the members would have preferred that they had put in an honest day’s work on the members’ nickel.

This brings us to the question “why are you out on the sidewalk?”, the answer is to stop change inside the company which effect your jobs. The worst place to be to stop change is where you are; the change is happening and you have no input to the extent of the change, the speed of the change or the direction of the change.

This union put you in this place which means you have already lost. Worrying about mandatory overtime is legitimate, negotiating the terms and boundaries of mandatory overtime logical. The problem is bigger, is your job going to be there to go back to?

The current path can not have a happy ending, something has to change and the union does not have any cards to play. They may embarrass the company now and then; they may get a customer to switch off their services but in reality these are wrinkles in the course to an inevitable ending.

OMG....Blackbladder. You truly are out to lunch. It has been the company not the union who hasn't negotiated. Get your facts straight. Telus has presented one offer and only one offer...the Final offer as they call it. I think we're up to fianl offer number 8 now. It was the company who agreed to Binding Arbitration then backed out which held things up for about 18 months. It's the company who has come to the table empty handed. It's now the company that refuses to negotiate and will not agree to a special mediator. They do not want to negotiate, they're only goal is to break the union. You think our leadership is lacking. Well they've kept us off the streets for all this time and now as a last resort they've been given no other choice but to have a labour dispute. I have nothing but respect for them and what they've done for us. They have a saying in the union...."High Road Marc, we always try to take the high road." I've heard both Rod Hiebert and now Bruce Bell say this time and again (as well as many others). Know what? This union takes the high road and it will pay dividends it the long long run. 86% support Blackbladder....keep on ignoring it.

hhmmm I must confess to knowing a tenth of what blackadder claims to know, I do know I am not a telus manager not sure about him tho, would like to see that entwistle guy down the road with no pay in disgrace for the telus idol video. I am dumping telus.

Blackadder, you seem to be a very learned individual. I would like to know how you would have handled the situation, since you seem to have all of the answers. I find it hard to understand that you have such a good understanding of the imposed contract. If you have read the points that have been posted over and over again in this and other forums and agree with them, then I would suggest that you must be part of a corporate greed machine. We don’t want the union to put the imposed contract to a vote not just because it was not negotiated, the language as we interpret it sounds like if we do agree to it the company would have complete control to do as they wish with it’s employees. Now none of us are lawyers, but the union has lawyers to let us know how to interpret the contract. You suggest that we should have stayed at work and negotiated with the company. The company has made it extremely clear that there will be NO NEGOTIATIONS under any circumstance; the presented offer is the FINAL OFFER. That being said if we would have gone to work, would that not suggest to the company that we accept the contract as is? Would that not also suggest the UNION is not required and therefore invalid? If the union is invalid why would they waste their time with any type of negotiations?

How would you have handled the situation, how do you fight against a corporation that would have them return to the barging table? Are you saying that it would be better not to have people try and hit them in the bottom line, how else can this be done? You say that there will be no jobs to come back to, well maybe that would happen with the imposed contract as well, what guarantees are there. This is the modern day world as you say, so really what have we got to loose? Yes you certainly seem to have all of the answers and you say you support UNIONS too! Since you don’t work for Telus, lets hear some of you theory’s.

ohhhh vmax, don't encourage him/her.

I would also like to know what the difference in negotiations are by starting with a brand new contract or starting from an old contract. Don’t you think that either way each side will want to remove and add which would still end in a stalemate? The question has been raised many, many times, if the company thinks they are offering such a great contract why won’t they negotiate? That question always has the same answer; because it is a fair contract etc, etc. So who is saying that it is fair? THE COMPANY! So because the COMPANY says this is a fair contract we are just supposed to roll over and say “you know best”? I can’t believe anyone would want to be treated this way in any workplace.

It has also been stated that we will not accept change. How can you say that if you don’t work for the company? We have not only accepted change, we have embraced it! All of the new product and technology that has been thrown at us we have worked with and supported! We have accepted this change and the company will not always give us training and still we have worked with it, learning on our own time in some cases! So what kind of change are you talking about?

Blackadder, Wwood and others state that they get jobs by their merit, well I have been there over many years and done very well, until something happened with the company and they said we can’t pay you anymore goodbye. So I started over and then started again and so forth. I have no pension to speak of and now I am in my 50’s. How many companies will hire you at that age? I may not always agree with everything a union does, but I’m sure that even you can’t say that you agree with everything your company does either. So if we are forced to start over, at least we can say that we took a stand in what we believe in. If we are so wrong why are there so many other unions supporting us? Why is Jack Layton supporting us, oh of course the NDP is more of a union supported party, so how come they won so many seats in the last provincial election?

Blackadder,
Had some time to catch up on your mindless banter so I thought I could afford
some time to correct your spelling.

1)The TWU does not represent the employees of TELUS.

I think you ment...The TWU does represent the employees of TELUS

2)For five years the TWU have not bargained with TELUS, they have not tried to find a way forward together with the company.

Another spelling error...I correct...
For five years the TWU have "tried" bargaining with TELUS, they have tried to find a way forward together with the company.

3)The alleged lie: “we are locked out” is pathetic...

got it wrong again?....

you mean... The real truth: “we are locked out” is completely right.

4)How can you overpower a superior force using a frontal strategy?....

How many beer have you had?....I correct again...You can you overpower a superior force using a effective strategy.

5)In truth these clowns made the decision to take the members out because they had already lost...

Check your typing , I'm tired of being your secratary....Don't worry I fixed it...
In truth these CEO's made the decision to take the members out because they had already lost.

6)The union is now in a terrible position; they are out on the streets and have no way back, many of the jobs which they are supposed to be protecting are now being proven redundant....

Thats it I'm not fixing your mistakes again...this is the last time...
The company is now in a terrible position; they are out of their mind's and have no way back, many of the jobs which they are supposed to be doing are now being proven a waste of money.

If your going to say things , stop making mistakes

P.S. There are some that will listen to your crap and there is the majority that know it's crap.
Hope your saving your money. I hear Telus management is an endangered speices.

Blackadder wrote..I believe in unions, I believe in the balance they should bring
in the work-place and believe in the power of a consolidated voice.
It amazes me that in one breath you condem unions and in the next you praise them.
I will not try to understand the logic behind this statement. Perhaps you realize
that without a Union, you would have no security yourself.

Blackadder wrote...The employees are becoming increasingly aware of this as evidenced by streams of people returning to work. More union members are asking hard questions of the information they have been given, they are seeing lies and incongruity in the statements of the union.

First of all the last stream of employees I have seen has come from the east.
Not, as you would try to have have all beleive, TWU members.
You are right in saying that the members are asking hard questions. They are very intelligent people and know what it is they are fighting for. That is why I would challenge your statement about "streams
of people returning to work". Show me the money!!!!!!
If it is true of what you say, why has Telus posted 226 job positions on workopolis.com since July 29
and has only one posting prior then that, April 21st....Ohhh yeah TWU members are streaming back.

I'll leave it at that. I need to catch up on the rest of your DIC BS later to post an appropriate reply.

I have copied the following paragraph from the Company’s final offer and pasted it here.

ARTICLE 5 – UNION RECOGNITION
5.01 The Company agrees to recognize the Union as the sole collective bargaining agency for the employees covered by this Agreement and hereby consents and agrees to negotiate with the Union or its designated bargaining representatives in any negotiable matters pertaining to this Agreement affecting the relationship between the Company and its employees.

Why would the company put this in their offer and then impose a non negotiated contract on the employees? The way I see it the company has out and out lied to both the union and its membership. This is the IMPOSED FINAL OFFER, how do the words FINAL OFFER relate to the word BARGAINING? The TWU has tabled a counter offer, but the company will not even look at it, how does that relate to BARGAINING?

It has been said that the TWU is not Democratic because it will not put the FINAL OFFER to a vote. I may be wrong here but doesn’t FINAL OFFER pretty much say voting is just an exercise in futility? Let’s have a look at a scenario shall we? Suppose the union had put the FINAL OFFER to a vote and it got voted down by say 70%. After reading ARTICLE 5 above, you would have me believe that the company would say “ok your right (TWU) they didn’t like the offer, so let’s now go to the table and bargain.” Somehow I don’t see it happening that way. More than likely the company would go and tweak a few things throw in more money and say “get them to vote on this one”. If the union says no, they are not being Democratic. Tell me is the company being Democratic or is that how bargaining is done these days? If the TWU had put the offer to the vote, they would pretty much be telling its membership that they really aren’t needed, because there has been no negotiation, their only function is to count the ballets.

If I’m wrong, please explain how the BARGAINING process works.

So I wonder wonder who's going to post for the company next? Judy S. or maybe Karen R.

vmax200,
I beleive from reading Blackadder's post's that he would have handled the negotiations with the same narrow minded thinking that seems to be prevolent in the upper management at Telus. It seems, from what I know of the situation, there is no attempt on Telus's part to even try and negotiate. Black is White is more to their line of logic. Blackadder, I believe that if the Union has manipulated the voting system, you have a wonderful opportunity here to go to the press and reveal all. Maybe the Tyee will help you out there. Give them the info you have. Show them the money.
Or stop making false accusations.

Vmax
You say “The TWU has tabled a counter offer, but the company will not even look at it, how does that relate to BARGAINING?”
This is entirely incorrect. The company has in fact reviewed the TWU proposed amendments to the expired agreement. Telus responded with the following, “TELUS, reviewed and rejected it because it failed in any meaningful fashion to address TELUS' need for improved productivity and flexibility and widened the gap between the parties with respect to some key aspects, such as contract duration and reduction of extra days off.” If you disagree I will be happy to dig up additional related material.
The union leadership has made no comment on the contract now in effect. Someone said that if they were to negotiate based on the contract now in effect it would imply acceptance and basically make the union no longer required. Maybe you could tell me what value the twu leadership plays in a third party imposed agreement. In that scenario they don’t even get to count votes. No matter how you look at it they have added no value at all and quite frankly have really sold the membership down the road.
The one I really like is Western’s “For five years the TWU have "tried" bargaining with TELUS, they have tried to find a way forward together with the company.”
Maybe you could enlighten all of us on the imaginative ways they have tried to find a way forward with the company. You must be referring to the brilliantly engaging tactic of “heres our old agreement, we would like more holidays, more money, less flexibility and less work. That probably took a whole weekend for them to come up with.
The twu leadership should at least make the same review of the contract that has been imposed and officially offer some suggested changes. That would at least show they have done some work and read it.
Blackadder poses some very serious and thought provoking questions that every member should be asking themselves and their leadership.

And Wwood rears his head again to counter a post with more BS. You state,

"This is entirely incorrect. The company has in fact reviewed the TWU proposed amendments to the expired agreement. Telus responded with the following, “TELUS, reviewed and rejected it because it failed in any meaningful fashion to address TELUS' need for improved productivity and flexibility and widened the gap between the parties with respect to some key aspects, such as contract duration and reduction of extra days off.”

Thanks you so much for proving our point. The company has taken a counter offer and said to the TWU, "Nope, we have given you our final offer now 6 times and it still stands as the final final offer." Do you understand the concept of negotiating? One makes and offer, the other counters, with this repeating itself until they sides can come to a middle ground and reach an agreement. The TWU in it's latest offer reduce the number of ATO's to 9, reduced the retro active raises to 3% and several other consessions. Telus said no and it will not budge from it's original final offer. You go ahead Wwood and get some proof if you can. It's all in black and white and unfortunately you've come on here again and outright lied to eveyone reading this thread.

One more thing and please get this point through your thick skull....WE DID VOTE!!! THE MAJORITY HAS SPOKEN!!! My god man, how can you keep on harping on this lie that we did not vote.

Wwood and Blackadder you boys are funny bantering back and forth when the real issues are not being dealt with. You are actually not too bad at the smoke screens. It does not really matter now how the bargaining did or did not happen. That is all water under the bridge. What the company is mad about right now is the fact that the membership did not vote on the IMPOSED OFFER, and the reason it is IMPOSED because Telus went behind the unions back and distributed the IMPOSED OFFER to all of the Bargaining Unit employees of which is not legal, and is interfering with a trade union, and partly because of this Telus has been found guilty (3 times I might add) of bargaining in bad faith. It does not matter what Telus thinks of the union or its executive, they were and still are the governing body for the Bargaining Unit employees pursuant to the Labour Act. Telus broke the law plain and simple. Then Telus stated that the IMPOSED OFFER will go into effect July 22, 2005, you have no say as we think that your union is not doing a good job this is put into simplistic terms so that you both will understand this. If anyone out there can deny this by using some common sense, that this is not an IMPOSED OFFER then speak up. The TWU executive and under our lawyers advice had no choice in taking the actions that they did, if we went to work July 22,2005 we would be saying we accept the IMPOSED OFFER.

So now that we have established that it is an IMPOSED OFFER, we can now begin to understand why the membership WILL NOT VOTE on it. Why?, you say, because if they do, legally by the labour codes this will be the last contract voted on and therefore the IMPOSED OFFER will be the contract to start from not the original contract that Bargaining Unit employees have been working under since January 18, 1999 until now. That is why Telus executives on down to entry level managers have been pushing and manipulating the Bargaining Unit members to convince the TWU executive that they should vote on the IMPOSED OFFER. If the government is brought in either by binding arbitration or mediation, because something WILL be done as this "job action" will eventually have to come to some resolve, as there will be public reaction not favorable to Telus. We all know that Telus has such a spotless reputation on service levels and not enough manpower to do the job so the wonderful IVR was implemented as a "cost effective" alternative, and we all know how Telus customers love the IVR. Ooops side tracked.
Contiued next post.

So in essence Telus is mad that we the membership of the Bargaining Unit in the TWU didn't take the bait and vote. They, Telus are also choke about the fact that when they sent all these expensive four color glossy packages out to the Bargaining Unit employees (upwards of 4 packages mailed out x 13,000) they thought particularly in Alberta that no one would see through the mirrors and lights and go for the offer, and by the way, the offer is a good offer, except for when you are offered extra wages it does not make up for the fact that this is a pretty package all done up with a bow. Now here is the reality plain and simple your job will be outsourced to Manila, Philippines wherever, but we gave you a good offer, and oh by the way if we move a call centre to New Brunswick you have the option to move. The executive of Telus underestimated the resolve of the Alberta members the “contingency plan” is not going as expected. They also underestimated the Alberta customers and how much they too have resolve as they do not like and some I have talked to distain, at what Telus is doing to their employees. Shaw has 600 orders per day of VoIP phones. Guess it really says it all now doesn't it?

Wwood, you are truly amazing! In your statement that Telus reviewed and rejected it because it failed in any meaningful fashion to address Telus’ need for improved productivity etc, shows that you do not understand the concept of BARGANING. In a true bargaining situation they would allow the other side to come back with another revised offer. There is no bargaining, did you not read my posts? Did you NOT READ the post that is taken from the COMPANY’S offer that states: The Company agrees to recognize the Union as the sole collective bargaining agency for the employees covered by this Agreement and hereby consents and agrees to negotiate with the Union or its designated bargaining representatives in any negotiable matters pertaining to this Agreement affecting the relationship between the Company and its employees. If you did read them where did I lose you? Then you go on about a 3rd party IMPOSED contract, which demonstrates that you don’t understand what a Mediator’s function is. A mediator only puts together an offer that both sides would have to agree on, he does not have the power to IMPOSE anything, only to SUGGEST! You are correct in your statement that there has been no talk between the company and union but not because the TWU would not talk, take the time to read the CIRB documents! Telus has been told over and over again to go back to the bargaining table and negotiate in good faith, but they have refused to do so. Why, because they have a fair and generous FINAL OFFER now IMPOSED! That is the answer to every question! Don’t you think this is like a broken record by now? Do the words FINAL OFFER clue you in to anything? Have a look on the TWU website and you will see that the TWU has in fact gone over the FINAL OFFER and has agreed to more changes should the company go back to the table. I don’t know how many times we have to say this: The COMPANY DOES NOT WANT TO GO BACK TO THE TABLE!! Yes Blackadder seems to have all of the answers and that is why (if you read my posts) I have posed some questions to him, I would like to learn more, but I don’t want to hear the same thing over and over and over again! It’s a waste of everybody’s time!

Go to - labourtalk.ca

Why? That site has nothing to offer.

Finally a true discussion forum for both sides without censorship and fear of reprisal.

Sorry for the slow response - I was enjoying the weekend.

You asked me how to save the union – it is impossible; they are in an untenable position unless they change the cretins who got them into this silly situation. There is no possible way to redeem the current situation while the leadership care more about dogma than the membership that pay their wages. (High lighted words are clearly more important than a well thought out argument)

Arguing that the leadership have 86% support of the members who are eligible to vote is the most preposterous concept when they do not have the support of the 54% of Alberta who have gone back to work , no noticeable support in the rest of the country and in BC we will know shortly.

I would recommend inviting the full membership to vote on the contract by secret ballot, something which has no chance of you implementing given you don’t care what they think.

I would recommend employing a leader who understands how businesses work, can talk business language and can find a way out of your immediate jam which is currently beyond your imagination.

Insanity is defined by continuing to behave in the same way and an expecting a different outcome!

This union leadership has lacked the imagination to move forward the cause of the members in the last 5 years ……………………………………………………

Secret ballot, that's the ticket. The union leadership doesn't have the gut's for this defeat of their leadership. In fact this goes for the voting procedures of all unions.
Imagine yourself, it's tome to vote for your MP. You are hearded into a room where union goons ( big ugly guys ) are lingering around. The list of candidates is read out and you are asked to hold up your hand and vote in clear view of these goons. How democratic is that ?
This is a joke. I think they should hire an independant auditor and have a mail in vote about accepting the new Telus offer.
I imagine union leadership ( goons ) would be quite upset. Too bad. Get a real job.

Blackadder, I just read your post and I have lost any respect that I may have had. You obviously did not read my post, because if you had you would have seen that I DID NOT ASK YOU HOW TO SAVE THE UNION. I asked you how you WOULD HAVE HANDLED the situation PRIOR to us being LOCKED OUT. You also did not read my second post where I explained WHY WE WOULD NOT VOTE on the so called FINAL OFFER! Your post even has a TELUS SPIN DOCTOR FLAVOUR TO IT, buy tuning my words around and saying that I asked you how to save the union. I will not waste my time with anyone that does not read and address the issues that I bring up! So keep spinning your rhetoric, maybe someone will believe you, but I’m sure if people actually read the posts they will see through you!!

back on the job eh ronny and spewing your usual crap, what union goons are you talking about do you actually think people are so nieve as to believe this nonsense.

I know lots of union people and have never heard of goons telling people how to vote, if they did they would be voted out of power since unions are a democracy. You are just a mouthpiece for el gordo trying to make all unions look bad to support the ideology of the used car sales man or if you like the snake oil salesman robbing the taxpayers blind.

Their was one rat union that used to use mob types with guns to force their membership to do their bidding but I don't think they are around anymore. I think their president was kicked out of the steelworkers union for stealing pension money so he started his own rat union. The socreds loved the guy as he was helping them bust the building trades, the people who actually built this province.

I have had first hand experience with union goons. They do exist.And they are the ones that rob the taxpayers blind. What else do they know waht to do ? They couldn't run a lemonade stand in the Mojave desert.
Take a secret vote and then spew your B.S.

"I have had first hand experience with union goons. They do exist.And they are the ones that rob the taxpayers blind."

Well Ron and Blackadder you're both very misinformed. This union did conduct the vote by secret ballot. There is not a goon mentality in the TWU and this is just another attempt by the two of you to discredit the TWU. In fact any kind of inappropriate behaviour is not tolerated within the TWU and respect for all is expected. I guess the two of you saw a re run of the Jimmy Hoffa movie recently (or something like that) The ways of the "GOON UNION" are long gone.

"I would recommend inviting the full membership to vote on the contract by secret ballot, something which has no chance of you implementing given you don’t care what they think."

Gawd you're laughable. Yep, Blackadder has made a recommendation TWU...let's get on this right away. This statement proves just how egotistical you are. You really can't be this full of yourself can you? Oh wait a minute...you support Darren Entwistle and his ways. I guess you can be.

Wwood

"Finally a true discussion forum for both sides without censorship and fear of reprisal."

I see you're there Wwood and I see you're still spreading misinformation. I would have replied there but couldn't be bothered signing up for a site where people don't seem to know what they're talking about. Anyhow, check out the thread where both you and Twacy post the numbers for the Telus stock. Ahhh, this is AT&T on the NYSE exchange. You've put in the symbol "T" but you've entered it for the NYSE. Try it on the TSE and you'll actually get the price for the Telus stock. The price of the Telus stock is about $44.

Had to point this out as it seems you see yourself as an expert on this labour dispute. Man you can't even find the right stock price for the company whose actions you're defending. Seems you just don't know how to obtain the facts does it Wwood...

Blackadder,
Where is it you get all those wonderful percentages? If my memory serves me right, I do recall reading in the news about 18 months age the TWU held a strike vote and received 86% support. This number I will hold to be true until you post your "how that vote was fixed" conpiracy theory. As for 54% going back in Alberta. Well I have seen many different numbers on that ranging from 14% to 100%, depending on who releases them.
I have two question's to pose to you and Wwood. Why did Darren Entwisle back out of his promise agreeing to binding arbitration and why did he reject an offer from the Labour Minister to appoint a special mediator. I look forward to your reply.
On a side note I heard yesterday on CKNW that the "R" rated version of Telus Idol has hit the net. Look forward to seeing what can be worse than what I have already viewed.
I do beleive that this is what this comment forum was to be about?

Wwood won't answer these questions as they do not fit in with what the Telus Propaganda Masters are telling him to post. It seems that Wwood, Ron Erwin, and Blackadder use the techniques of ignoring what does not fit in with what they spew. If there's something that is true and it refutes their message....THEY IGNORE IT!!!

Yes the R rated version. I'm sure these three will defend this one too as just a bunch of executives drinking and having a little fun. Yeah, duct taping a woman to a chair is fun allright. I didn't think Telus was into the making of bondage clips....but whata the heck, I hear there's lot's of money to be made in porn. C'mon guys, defend Telus executives actions in duct taping a woman to a chair. Defend your "Telus Idol" Darren Entwistle as he witnessed this display and did nothing. I really want to hear this one.

Marc; sorry I never watched it. But by the sounds of it I guess it should be required content for Womens Studies courses at UVIC.

Great response Ron, again you refuse to deal with the subject. It's impossible for you to deal with an issue if it's not in line with the Telus rhetoric. Quit wasting our time Ron.

Ron, you said it all. I certainly hope that there are some women’s groups looking at this one. This is the arrogance that obviously filters down in management of any company; guess the women’s groups still have a lot of work to do as you are evidence of that very fact. You sicken me with your pompous arrogance; I do not need to say more.

Well here is an interesting FACT! Mr. Wood has come onto a thread which is dealing with the Telus Idol video. I've gone over every single one of his post and not once does he debate this video. Instead he has come her to spew the Telus rhetoric. Are you the mini version of Drew Mac. Ron? Absolute nothing in regards to the video folks....nothing. We need to vote. The union is run by goons. Alberta was not represented. All lines used by Telus these days to cause a rift in the membership. Oh and Ron, the post with all the question marks that made this thread a mile wide...if you can't figure out how to use your computer, put it away buddy.

where did you have first hand experience with union goons, crossing a picket in the states?

where did you have first hand experience with union goons, crossing a picket in the states?

or maybe in the 40's or 50's