Fish Farm Documents Show Politics Trump Science, Say Critics
Deleted facts flagged as 'Technically correct, but politically problematic.'
BC Fisheries Minister van Dongen: ‘We need to get moving’
Leaked internal provincial government documents show that when it comes to fish farms, the Liberals are more interested in politics than science, a Green party critic says.
Earlier this week, Times Colonist reporter Judith Lavoie published details of internal government documents dealing with aquaculture. The documents, copies of which were subsequently obtained by The Tyee, show the government has been eager to expand fish farming while being highly sensitive to the political optics of the controversial issue.
The official Liberal platform boasts that the government has improved "fisheries and aquaculture management with independent, science-based solutions." However, critics say the leaked documents show that the government has allowed politics to trump science.
For example, a draft of a letter from Fisheries Minister John van Dongen to a fish farm opponent states that "Atlantic salmon are capable of producing offspring in the wild, something that has been known since the early 1900s."
That sentence has been deleted in the draft copy and a handwritten marginal note from van Dongen's ministerial assistant states: "Technically correct, but politically problematic."
'Big Ticket Political Issue'
The documents are being made public at the same time that the federal government is being accused of sitting on a report on sea lice, the spread of which has been linked to fish farming. Although the federal government denies any political interference, opposition party critics say it appears Ottawa is withholding the potentially damaging report until after next Tuesday's provincial election.
Green party policy analyst Chris Shaw said the documents and the delayed federal report show that both levels of government are playing politics with an issue crucial to West Coast fisheries.
"It's truly scandalous," said Shaw.
One of the leaked documents is a letter dated September 18, 2002 from van Dongen to Premier Gordon Campbell titled "Big Ticket Political Issues." It states that "finfish and shellfish growth will need to be managed politically."
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
Push to fast track farms
In December, 2002, van Dongen wrote to then-federal fisheries minister Robert Thibault, complaining that the federal government wasn't moving fast enough to approve new salmon farms.
"We are in a very serious situation," van Dongen wrote. "It is not overstating the case to say that the lack of approvals for relocations and new sites is a crisis situation…
"The salmon farming industry, the service industry and the processing sector have laid off staff and destroyed fish due to the total lack of expansion and relocation opportunities."
Van Dongen wrote that "both my staff and credible industry spokespersons" saw two reasons for the "impasse":
"1. 'Extreme' application of the precautionary principle.
"2. Habitat staff in the Pacific region who are opposed to aquaculture - they look for any reason to say no."
Van Dongen added: "We need to get moving."
The documents also detail negotiations with Ottawa to increase provincial control of fisheries. A 2002 briefing note prepared for van Dongen states that the province wants to ensure it "can effectively influence federal fisheries decision-making that affects British Columbians." The note also states that groups such as the B.C. Survival Coalition "see greater provincial authority over fisheries as a way to reverse federal policies that they claim unfairly support native-only fisheries."
Science is sound says minister
The Green party's Chris Shaw charged that the government is stressing politics over fisheries science because the scientific studies quoted by fish-farm advocates "in my view is not supportable."
"They are running the risk of destroying the wild [salmon] stock," Shaw said. "The wild stock is under pressure from any number of factors but the fish farms are probably the best way to give it the final kick. If you really wanted to destroy the wild stock you couldn't think of a much better way than to put these toxic ponds in the migration path."
Van Dongen and the New Democratic Party did not respond to calls from The Tyee Wednesday. Van Dongen told the Times Colonist that government decisions on fish farming have been ruled entirely by science and good management.
Although the B.C. Liberal party received a reported $70,000 from the salmon farming industry between 1996 and 2004, van Dongen denied that the donations influenced government policy.
"I categorically reject that accusation," van Dongen told the Times Colonist. "I have had an open door to all sides. Political donations have had nothing to do with my decisions. Zero."
NDP leader Carole James told the Times Colonist that the leaked documents prove that politics, not science, is at the root of the government's fish farming policy.
Shaw said the delay in releasing the federal report is part of the same political mind-set. The report concerns levels of sea lice in wild salmon in the Broughton Archipelago, a cluster of islands near the northeast coast of Vancouver Island. The area has the greatest concentration of fish farms in B.C.
According to The Vancouver Sun, the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans announced in mid-March that it would make the sea lice report public by mid-April. It still has not been released and federal officials say they don't know when it will be.
Charges of federal foot dragging
Earlier this week, federal opposition politicians charged that federal Fisheries Minister Geoff Regan was sitting on the report to avoid embarrassing the B.C. Liberals.
Shaw said he has no trouble believing that charge. Ottawa has been very supportive of the fish farming industry "and they're not going to release anything that they think would impact the election," he said.
"One would have to be very suspicious," he said, that the federal report will back up the findings of a recent study from scientists at the University of Victoria and the University of Alberta. That study found that the transfer of sea lice from salmon farms to wild salmon in B.C. is a much bigger problem than claimed by fish farm advocates. Sea lice are parasites that can weaken and kill salmon.
If Ottawa releases a report that supports the UVic-U of A researchers on the eve of a B.C. election, "it pretty much undercuts all the happy spin that Gordon Campbell and van Dongen are trying to put on it," Shaw said. "The notion that the [federal] fisheries ministry is trying to play politics with this doesn't surprise me. They should release it whether it's pro or con and not play election games with it, quite frankly."
Brian Underhill, director of communications in Regan's office, said Wednesday that the report was not finished.
Although no release date has been set, "we're hoping to have it done as soon as possible… I'd like to get it out this week," Underhill said.
The decision on when to release the report will be made by federal government scientists, Underhill said.
"We're certainly not going to release it just to get it out before the 17th."
Tom Barrett is a contributing editor of The Tyee. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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allan
6 years ago
Comments on "Fish Farm Documents Show Politics Trump Scienc
What can you say about these Liberals other than they seem to have friends in high places, both in Ottawa and in the judiciary.
What other environmental and police reports, among others, are being kept from the public until after May 17?
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
Banquos ghost
6 years ago
This from http://www.queensjournal.ca/article.php?point=vol131/issue30/features/lead2
"The journal studied 700 samples of salmon from all over the world, including Canadian specimens from Vancouver and Toronto, and discovered high levels of polychl orinated biphenyls (PCBs) in farmed salmon. They found that levels of PCBs in farmed salmon were significantly higher than levels in wild salmon.
In addition to being linked to the development of cancer, PCBs have been associated with impaired fetal brain development. During the 1970s, PCBs were banned in the U.S. They are currently being phased out globally under a United Nations treaty on persistent organic pollutants, and their presence has been seriously reduced."
This from http://myhealth.ucsd.edu/healthyliving/nutrition/dec04toxins.htm
"Levels of 14 different chemical contaminates pesticides are higher in farmed salmon than in wild salmon," says co-researcher Dr. David O. Carpenter, a professor of environmental health and toxicology and director of the Institute for Health and the Environment at the State University of New York at Albany."
There are many more.
So what would encourage the BC Liberals to put the health of British columbians at risk?
Altruism?
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Well my friend if you did take the time to find out who Rafe is you wouldn't be saying it "detracts from the issue", and you wouldn't be attempting to "influence" others to believe the Mair "fish stories" - Believe me, it's nothing than crap backed by more crap.
Secondly, There is no discussion here, You are at Tyee Misinformation Central, designed and funded by the NDP union team to publish false information in order to get it's candidates elected at any cost.
Jean Binette
PS, Old age indeed has caught up to Anne Cameron , anyone can see the symptoms of senile behavior brought on by dementia which runs rampant among the Village Idiots who promote Carole James.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
Stump
6 years ago
Binette, drop off some "petty cash" at my house wouldja?
The rest of you, ignore the wanker and he'll go away eventually, just like a bad smell.
Banquos ghost
6 years ago
This Binnette is quite a piece of work isn't it? I think it's either a 'bot' or it's Christie Clark. But I repeat myself...
verso
6 years ago
Jean, you're all talk. Where's the science to back up your claims, or to even refute the claims being made against the industry? Every day the science against fish farms grows, and it's been studied around the world not just in polarized BC. So, as it's been said before, it's time put up or shut up.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
NI Resident
6 years ago
As far as political donations goes, why wouldn't an industry support the ONLY party which is in favour of its survival. The "closed containment solution", proposed by all other parties, only works if the solution is the extermination of salmon farming in BC, along with the thousands of coastal community jobs.
The Liberals HAVE taken a science-based approach to regulating the industry...just not Rafe Mair or Alexandra Morton's "science".
MJK
6 years ago
I agree with Binette on one thing..."there is no discussion here".
It's too bad The Tyee, The Straight and now Rafe are all on the fringes. The discussion should be in the mainstream. Not necessarily about the political overtones of the farmed salmon issue, but on the supreme incompetence displayed by our current and previous governments.
But then governments only reflect the thinking of the mainstream which is all about rampant consumerism, "development" of resources and working for more hours and money than anyone should consider.
And hey, I think Anne Cameron is a pretty neat grumpy old lady. Grumpiness is good. Greed never was. One man's dementia is another's sanity.
jtothemfk
6 years ago
Holy Spinning Binny!!! It's like a virus. Someone make it stop! Call in disease control, call the blog police!!! This replication/repetition is starting to sound like a real argument. Surely, Binny must work for the Great Amoeba known eupemistiacally as the Liebrals. What a jackass
verso
6 years ago
What exactly is that "science-based approach" to regulating the industry? I've heard it spun by many a politian, but as of yet, still have no idea what it really means.
Bailey
6 years ago
Hey, Jean, Could ya spot me $70 grand? I know it's chicken feed, but maybe you could use a friend on this site. I'll be you're friend.
Whaddya say, hmmmm?
TheMac
6 years ago
I'm getting confused. The Campbell government slashed jobs and programmes throughout the province, saying it was a tough decision because the existing condition was not sustainable.
They won't stop Atlantic salmon farming because the industry provides jobs,jobs, jobs
So...we wouldn't want to eliminate drug trafficing because of all the jobs it provides, and that's not a political decision, despite rumours of connections between the BCLiberal party and drug money...
c
mbraun
6 years ago
NI Resident: try 900 jobs in 2003. i may be nitpicking but please don't try to embellish the "importance" of this sector in the aggregate labour market. Also, how does the closed containment solution "exterminate" the salmon farming industry? doesn't that just change the industry's standard practices into something a little more sustainable?
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
jtothemfk
6 years ago
Verso, whatever it means it's extremely selective, picking and choosing as it does which "science" with which it approaches an ecologically sensitive industry. JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! Which are good? Which are bad? JOBS JOBS JOBS! Here's 8 bucks, you've been had!!
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
verso
6 years ago
Thanks for proving my point Jean.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
You're welcome verso.
Jean Binette
Adnuces
6 years ago
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........
Binnette, you are putting me to sleep. Same old story, over and over again. If you can't come up with an original thought maybe you could spare us all your repeat blatherings.
Adnuces
6 years ago
Sometimes it is more intelligent to keep ones mouth shut and have people just assume you are an idiot than to open your mouth and prove them correct.
deeby
6 years ago
Jean, please explain why you feel entitled to engage in a personal attack on Anne Cameron, who hasn't even posted re. this article.
...You've just graduated from right-wing apologist to asshole.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
She said my mother's family comes from "whore's"
Jean Binette
jtothemfk
6 years ago
Not sure if it's subconscious irony on Spinny's part but her repeated messages seem quite apt... "Golden Decade" "new era" "optimism vs. pessimism", etc. with the mantras. Spinny may be borrowing from the Liebral's machine. As any group will do come election time, they'll contribute to that party which serves their interests and members' interests. Just ask yourself which groups support the neo-cons and which support the pseudo lefties (i'm not a total NDP supporter) and then ask where their respective interests lie (no double entendre intended). And ask which agenda more likely leads to healthier communities (healthy including physical but also relating to security of mind and income, etc.) and which likely leads to more widening in the gap between rich and poor and third world conditions. Spinny doesn't seem to like to get into these discussions which inevitably begin to reach out a little further than her one-offs.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
jtothemfk
6 years ago
Just read your recent post and it's unfortunate, Jean, that Anne suggested your family comes from "whores". Which article thread was this in?
sail_junkie
6 years ago
Dear Binette,
I have to agree with the person who described you as a "wanker".
Since learning about this site, I have been struck by watching Liberals, New Democrats and others strongly disagree with each other without the personal attacks. Alas, someone lifted a rock and out you slithered!
Please take your filth; go back to Emperor Gordo and his fish farm pals and tell them that they can't hide the truth forever. At the very least, stop showing what a dumbass you are by saying the same thing over and over.
UVIC was looking at fish farm impacts 2 years ago
allan
6 years ago
jtothemfk. I beleive Anne may have been referring to stuff on Binney's family tree, which he was attempting to enhance his image with.
You can pick your wife, your lover and even your friends, but as embarrasing as it may seem Binney, your family comes ready-made.
BTW, what did the men in your family do Binney?
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
She might wish to apologize to Celine Dionne while she's at it.
Jean Binette
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
tommymoore
6 years ago
Seven times "dearpremier.ca" has posted the same insulting diatribe. I'm against censorship on comments, but maybe it's time this lazy and offensive poster was denied the privilege?
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
It's my comment my friend and don't call me lazy!
Jean Binette
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Well my friend if you did take the time to find out who Rafe is you wouldn't be saying it "detracts from the issue", and you wouldn't be attempting to "influence" others to believe the Mair "fish stories" - Believe me, it's nothing but crap backed by more crap.
Secondly, There is no discussion here, You are at Tyee Misinformation Central, designed and funded by the NDP union team to publish false information in order to get it's candidates elected at any cost.
Jean Binette
PS, Old age indeed has caught up to Anne Cameron , anyone can see the symptoms of senile behavior brought on by dementia which runs rampant among the Village Idiots who promote Carole James.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
Banquos ghost
6 years ago
Tyee editors: this Binnette clown has now reached the limit wouldn't you say? Else why the registration process?
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
What would the Tyee be then my friend? If you don't like or agree with the comment - then just scroll on by.
Jean Binette
jtothemfk
6 years ago
the comment has been duly noted and addressed. Now F' off!
douge
6 years ago
Binette is much like we have to deal with at all candidates meetings on the North Shore either they don't show up or if they do-- they don't. They don't know what in hell Gordo told them to say. So its blah blah blah blah.If anyone has ever seen Katherine Whitred or Dan Jarvis in action take some pix because I'm sure they'll be rare
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
douge
6 years ago
No lets leave Binette on. They have proven what we've all known and the rest of B.C has now got to see.Gordo's derailed.
crh
6 years ago
Why support some jobs and not others? It's easy to see a pattern. If you donate enough to Gordo and his Lieberals, than he'll order his puppets to support your industry. If no money flows his way, and only thru to other parties, than no support. Quite easy to understand really.
tommymoore
6 years ago
Keep digging, dearpremier.ca. The gaping hole you're on the edge of is slick with your spittle. The editor has been apprised of your carryings on, and many here would shed few tears at your IP being blocked.
NDP = NO DRUNK PREMIERS
tommymoore
6 years ago
[marquee][font color="#ffff00"]NDP = NO DRUNK PREMIERS[/marquee][/font]
Eddy Haskel
6 years ago
I had a good chuckle a couple of years ago when I read a letter in the New York Times claiming that there was "more old growth forest in British Columbia today than existed 100 years ago." The letter was signed by Premier Gordon Campbell. I suppose Mr. Campbell was reviewing "facts based on science" to make such a claim.
Nationalist
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Jean Binette misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from Jean Binette", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a Jean Binette will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the Jean Binette to invest and create Jean Binettes."
What can you say about what more could Jean Binette ask for? (unless you are Jean Binette a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Jean Binette)
Ask yourself how much Jean Binette donates to his/her/it's favorite cause.
Jean Binette
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Another pile of misinformation by the Tyee misinformation team.
The donations work out to $8,750.00 per year, hardly a massive donation from the "rich", more like petty cash".
Van Dongen writes: "The key elements on this file will be First Nations, environmentalists, and local and regional governments. Our objective as a government will continue to be to create the right economic, social and environmental conditions for the industry to invest and create jobs."
What can you say about what more could anyone ask for? (unless you are a total Village Idiot, and happen to see conspiracy everywhere like Allan above)
Ask yourself how much the HEU donates to their favorite cause.
Jean Binette
Sugar
6 years ago
Ridiculous. Get Binette off.
Banquos ghost
6 years ago
When does this kind of behaviour become abusive and no longer tolerable?
Binnette isn't likely to behave in an adult fashion any time soon so I request the Tyee do so and terminate his posting priveleges for this abuse.
You can lose thoughtful articlate posters or you can lose the Binnette's.
You choose.
Chris H
6 years ago
douge:
I went to a candidates meeting where Dan Jarvis showed up. After listening to him try and answer the questions he was asked by the people in attendance, I was embarassed to have him as my MLA. He kept getting flustered, he stammered, he got his facts all mixed up, and he said the most unbelievable things. The Marijuana Party candidate even did a better job, and I'm pretty sure he was high as a kite. I now understand why Gordon Campbell's inner circle laughs at Jarvis. He really should have packed it in and not run again. The very best thing Jarvis can do for his cause is not show up.
And on Jean Binette:
You've got to wonder about a person who keeps posting the same thing over and over again. Binette isn't really contributing anything when he/she/it does that. I hope The Tyee gives a warning about this behaviour. We don't need people spamming on the comment boards.
On Fish Farms:
It has been obvious for a long time that the BC Liberals view aquaculture in purely economic terms. Imagine if they had some candidates who actually had an environmental perspective. They might even take some votes away from the Greens. Too bad for them that they have not figured this out yet.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
But I'm having fun and isn't that what it's all about? You village idiots are just bullshitters without a care in the world about truth or fiction. At least from me you get the cold hard reality. Like it or not.
Too bad you haven't figured it out yet.
Jean Binette
PS, Chris H. You appear to me to be one of the worst offenders surpassing even the changeling Carole James.
Danno
6 years ago
I wonder if the reason Binette keeps spamming that message is to make her to story, so we all direct our attention to her and not the real issues..
I have heard all the science that Rafe has offered on his show, but none from the liberals, Rafe has asked a number of times for the liberals to produce an expert so he could invite and debate the fish farm issue.
None yet.. Oh expect for the poet..
Chris H
6 years ago
Jean Binette: From you that is a compliment. ROFL. Say what you want, but don't keep spamming the same comment over and over again. It just shows how uncouth you truly are.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Well my friend if you did take the time to find out who Rafe is you wouldn't be saying it "detracts from the issue", and you wouldn't be attempting to "influence" others to believe the Mair "fish stories" - Believe me, it's nothing but crap backed by more crap.
Secondly, There is no discussion here, You are at Tyee Misinformation Central, designed and funded by the NDP union team to publish false information in order to get it's candidates elected at any cost.
Jean Binette
PS, Old age indeed has caught up to Anne Cameron , anyone can see the symptoms of senile behavior brought on by dementia which runs rampant among the Village Idiots who promote Carole James.
kayakrick
6 years ago
there are some days when something happens to bring back a feeling that mankind really is o.k. and then out of nowhere comes a politician and ruins your whole day.
douge
6 years ago
Binette what is it you know about truth or fiction. How far has Gordo got his hand up your ass to make your head bob.
Danno
6 years ago
Jean,
Crap you say? If you information that proves what I have heard on the Rafe's show to be worng, please post it, (if you have a url link even better).
Lets discuss the issue rather than calling plp names..
Oh and Jean would you please post your resorces for the information that you post..
Thanks.
Danno
sail_junkie
6 years ago
Binnette, most of us wouldn't agree that behaving like an asshole is having fun.
I do agree with other comments which suggest that if you won't slither back under your rock, the Tyee should yank your posting priviledges. You are really getting tiresome.
sail_junkie
6 years ago
Didn't want to put this in the same post as my reply to Binnette.
This article shows that I really owe Rafe Mair an apology. For years, first on Brand X now on AM600, I would roll my eyes and flip the dial at the first mention of "salmon" or "fish farms". This was usually accompanied by a groan which meant "enough already!"
Alas, in recent times, there has been more science (from places like UVIC and American univerities)and more disclosures like this one. They all confirm what Mr. Mair has said all along.
Rafe Mair's resume may list many accomplishments. However, if close-pen containment ever becomes a reality, the people of BC will consider his fish farm stand to be his greatest contribution to a province he truly loves.
Binnette, if you have listened to Rafe Mair at all over the years, you would have heard him describe the Pacific Salmon as the soul of this province. Taking on the fish farming industry stems from a love of the province; not a desire to bash Emperor Gordo. I don't always agree with Mair, but I have never doubted his sincerity or his deep love for this province.
There! That will do until the next time Mair says something to get me cheesed off.
Cheers.
relayer
6 years ago
Jean's just mad because her buddy Gordon Gekko, er..Campbell is going to have his ass kicked on the 17th. I also predict that one day, Gordo will be hauled off to jail for his crimes. The truth will come out, it always does.
Burgess
6 years ago
The fish farm issue is the transfer of wealth from the wild fishery to the fish farmers. Can you say "GREED." Rather than enhance the historic Pacific fishery the Feds and the BC Fibs have chosen the political donation route to the detriment of the wild stock. The eventual goal? Daming the Fraser for power sale to the Americans. After all isn't that what is going on now with Kitimat power being generated by ALCAN? Who stands to gain? Alcan. Who stands to lose? Kitimat and BC. When the wild fish go kiss the tourist fishing industry goodbye as well. Go figure why they are totally mum on this issue. After all their livelyhood goes out the window with the fish. The illustrious Van Dork and his fellow coalition minions can see no further than their noses and the next four years. What a tragedy for the Province.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Well my friend if you did take the time to find out who Rafe is you wouldn't be saying it "detracts from the issue", and you wouldn't be attempting to "influence" others to believe the Mair "fish stories" - Believe me, it's nothing but crap backed by more crap.
Secondly, There is no discussion here, You are at Tyee Misinformation Central, designed and funded by the NDP union team to publish false information in order to get it's candidates elected at any cost.
Jean Binette
PS, Old age indeed has caught up to Anne Cameron , anyone can see the symptoms of senile behavior brought on by dementia which runs rampant among the Village Idiots who promote Carole James.
Burgess
6 years ago
While fishing off Bamfield we ran into the Russian trawler "Andre Stanovsky" (one of five at the time) Each trawler was larger that the old BC ferries. There were four or five BC catcher trawlers working for the big ship. They were licenced for Hake. The bycatch was tossed back into the sea. 2/3 of the catch in the net. The by catch was salmon, halibut etc. These factory trawlers work 365 days a year. How long will take to reduce the fish stocks to daming the Fraser? Jean of course will have enough wealth accumulated as a lacky to victoria liberals to eat processed algae along with the rest of the coalition groupies in Victoria. in victoria, in victoria, in victoria, in victoria, invictoriainvictoriainvictoriainvictoria....................
Fii
6 years ago
Jean isn't a woman. Are you? You're French- Binette- so it's Jean as in a man's name, no?? Anyway, Anne Cameron is witty, sarcastic, sharp-tongued, freakin' HILARIOUS!!!!, not grumpy. She's also a well-known author, Binette- so whatever you may think, she is doing something right; you are merely annoying everyone on this thread.
Mooney
6 years ago
One critical point missing from Mr Barrett's story which appeared in the original Judith Lavoie story is the fact that the government legal department in a letter to Van Dongen maintains that "the government doesn't have to enforce it's own laws."
I would think that this would bring a chill to everyone regardless of political stripe.
The Canadian charter section 15 states that we are all equal before the law and to have lawyers funded by tax dollars doing an end run around the Canadian charter at the expense of the public interest is scary.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
In my view Anne Cameron is nothing more than a wannabe Indian who thinks French women are whore's, which makes her just another Village Idiot - yes??, no??.
Jean Binette
verso
6 years ago
there is no discussion here
Jean, that's where you're wrong. There is a discussion, one that you have every oppportunity to particpate in, but for some reason keep pissing away. I'll never understand why people use tactics like this.
Rarely do I agree with JIm, but at least he engages in conversation. Sometimes I wonder if you actually work for the NDP because, to me, you seem to help their cause more than hurt it.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
That's where you're wrong verso, and it's because you haven't been around the "TYEE" long enough to realize it's true bent.
Most sincerely
Jean Binette
I could only hope I could "harm" the NDP - are you voting for Hairy Lali?
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
May 2005 Anne Cameron writes: "sixteen fifty four..are we making reference to the boatload they exiled after sweeping the gutters and prisons and shipping off the whores, thieves, and feeblewitted(sic)? Then married the women to the fishermen and woodcutters who were already scratching out an existance(sic)?"
Hilarious, don't you think?
Jean Binette
douge
6 years ago
Jean is working for the NDP . Maybe somewhat indirectly and maybe with sore ass once the premier removes his hand on May 18th. But I'm sure he or she is working on Dan Jarvis's campaign.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Cameron's verbal diarrhea reminds me of the Mair/Jaffer East Indian joke - equally hilarious.
Jean Binette
verso
6 years ago
Jean, I've been with the Tyee since day one.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Perhaps I am a Liberal "Pimp" after all.
Jean Binette
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
And perhaps you are a NDP "Pimp" after all. - assuming you are in support Hairy Lali and the same old gang from the past. Which is it?
Even Carole James is ashamed that she voted the NDP last time around. "Uh, that, as Carole James has said, was a different government, a different era," said Stevenson."
Most sincerely
Jean Binette
verso
6 years ago
Jean, if you ever want to have serious debate, I'm up for it. As for now, you've made my ignore list. Good day.
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Well my friend if you did take the time to find out who Rafe is you wouldn't be saying it "detracts from the issue", and you wouldn't be attempting to "influence" others to believe the Mair "fish stories" - Believe me, it's nothing but crap backed by more crap.
Secondly, There is no discussion here, You are at Tyee Misinformation Central, designed and funded by the NDP union team to publish false information in order to get it's candidates elected at any cost.
Jean Binette
PS, Old age indeed has caught up to Anne Cameron , anyone can see the symptoms of senile behavior brought on by dementia which runs rampant among the Village Idiots who promote Carole James.
jtothemfk
6 years ago
Well, Jean, Can't say I see any reference to you or your family in that little blurb you reposted. Give some context maybe? From what's there i can't see any hilarity or offensiveness...
Anyway, off topic. As others have requested I'd love to see some of the studies you obviously have knowledge of in order to refer to mair's analyses as "fish stories" and hard science as "crap backed up by more crap" Put up or shut up
dearpremier.ca
6 years ago
Of course you can't jtothemfk (sic?) - unfortunately it's most likely because you're another Village Idiot who supports Hairy Lali.
You have my deepest sympathy my friend.
Jean Binette
PS, I would be glad to "put up or shut up" just as soon as sonic931 gets back to me on the "sound science" he refers to.
touchwood
6 years ago
Titanic BC Sea Lice Disaster
On Sunday, April 14, 1912 at 11:39 PM an iceberg was sighted dead ahead of the Titanic. A minute later a collision occurred and the world's most powerful metaphor for arrogance and willful blindness was coined. If you could time travel, to what time would you travel to prevent the Titanic collision? What would you say and to whom would you say it?
In a week, Canadians are going to hear about a federal fisheries report which may admit responsibility for the failure to foresee and react against the looming causal relationship between salmon farms, sea lice and the mass extinguishment of returning migrating wild salmon resulting in the cascading collapse of salmon dependent terrestrial and marine ecologies. There is no excuse. The protectors of our coastal ecology and economy were bribed to take the day off. In a country so proud of itself for scientific acumen and humane, civilized sophistication, the impact of this culpability and willful incompetence will be humiliating. Think what happens when countries are humilated.
Some say the Sea Lice Report is being delayed because it could distort the May 17th provincial election with a tsunami of public outrage, animosity and disgust for the serial legislative cohorts who lent blindness or approval to this ecocide. If true, then the delay in the report really is keeping the Green Party from strong electoral success. On the other hand, the federal government claims the delay results not from strategic sympathy for its BC accomplices but because of its difficulty scheduling scientists to publically interpret the report. That may be true. But if so, the scientists they are scheduling are not biologists, ecologists or fisheries experts. The federal government's difficulty may be in arranging for the kind of experts employed to manage, defocus and assuage paradigm shifting public outrage.
These disaster experts are the PR scientists paid to help us complacently forget culture transforming disasters and emergent metaphors like Bhopal, Three Mile Island and the Exxon Valdez. They are the same people who alternately can spin and exploit a disaster such as New York 911 to frame a never ending trillion dollar war against an unknown enemy to impoverish and terrorize a country against its founding principles and vaunted expectations.
But, I am little optimistic. Optimistic that a Titanic level of humiliation and structural and cultural change will result from the BC Sea Lice Disaster and that the world will have a new metaphor for the cascading collapse of enormous, complex and resilient ecosystems that occurs when they collide with greed driven arrogance and willful political blindness. It is 11:39 PM. There is a champagne party in the lounge. What looms ahead?
Michael Major
douge
6 years ago
If in being delayed it is keeping the Greens from some sort of success or in it's delay is it to prevent the NDP from taking over the BC legislature.Is this another conspiracy theory from another village idiot Jean.You have to excuse some of us but we were educated under the social credit and your new found puppeteers the neo-fibbers
Mr Binette
6 years ago
Thank you for your comment douge -unfortunately, I am unable to comprehend what delay or conspiracy theory you refer to and the last time I looked there were no strings attached to my back.
If you are referring to the lengthy Michael Major "Titanic" story above, you should know that wasn't much of a disaster on a world scale and no Salmon were harmed.
Mr. Binette
PS, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from referring to Liberals as neo-fibbers.
Chris H
6 years ago
Hey, Binette ... where did all your spammed posts go? Can't log on with dearpremier.ca anymore? Count yourself lucky because most blogs would have IP banned you. But hey, we all make mistakes ... I just hope you learn from yours.
The DFP report is due to come out any day now. Will you accept that as "sound science"? They have been pretty forgiving of the fish farm industry so far in my opinion.
Chris H
6 years ago
er DFO report ... LOL (where is that edit button again?)
douge
6 years ago
Jean I am tired of people like you and the right wing media aiding the dismantling of the province my grandparents and parents built to such a caring and fair society.Go into a hospital or school now today and take a look around open your f----- eyes and ears to the real world not the fiberals lies.Jean people like you do not appreciate our seniors our children our enviroment our province. Stop the lies. And if you don't appreciate us calling the Liberals lies tough-- suck it up and get ready for a dissapointment Tuesday.
anne cameron
6 years ago
The early run of Chinook up the Columbia and Snake River systems has crashed. Washington, Idaho, and Oregon have ended commercial fishing and the First Nations tribes which have treaty rights to fish have done the same.
The fisheries experts expected 254,000 spring spawning Chinook would pass the Bonneville Dam; only 52,000 have passed so far. This was supposed to be an exceptionally good year, these are, for the most part, the offspring of the big run of 2001 where nearly 400,000 Chinook made it to the spawning grounds.
Anyone who wishes to further research this can go to "Truthout", and visit their "environment" page
I'm not saying open net pen fish feed lots are responsible, I am not saying sea lice have so devastated the fry as they headed out to sea that most of them died. I am not pointing a finger at anyone.
But it is passing strange!! When only a fraction of a run returns, surely that has to mean something is out of whack.
And, of course, we all believe there is no political link between the holding back of the Fisheries report and the election..just as we believe there is no political link between the holding off of the trial of the Legislative flunkies. And of course we all believe that this is the absolute best of all possible worlds and all politicians are honest, honourable, and completely trustworthy. Oh, and sober.
Big day tomorrow... everybody up early, eat your brekkie, drink some coffee, shower, shave, shampoo, dressed, shoe laces properly tied and out of the house to VOTE. Please!
big red
6 years ago
It’s sad, but not altogether surprising that the BC gov’t is ignoring science that does not suit their agenda. What I find more disturbing is the underlying assumption that the salmon farm industry can dump into our commons, feed their fish on whatever wild food drifts into the nest, and breed parasites… without having to prove anything… Instead the onus of proof is left to independent researchers, and (a reluctant) federal gov’t to prove that there is a problem… Doesn’t this seem bass ackwards? Shouldn’t it be up to industry to prove that this is safe? Their name-calling and nit-picking at other researchers’ work is no substitute for the real thing. It’s time BC stood up for itself: No more free rides on our environment. When it’s all over, it will be us paying for the remediation of our devastated salmon runs, if remediation will even be possible…