Mediacheck

A Tyee Series

Absolutely Scandalous

Global opinion on corruption and politics.

By Angus Reid, 14 Aug 2007, TheTyee.ca

The Jack Abramoff scandal promises to haunt American Republicans in 2008, or at least that's what the Democrats are hoping. So it should come as no surprise that corruption and ethics have emerged as possible big issues in the Democrats own primaries.

Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton recently came under fire when she refused to rule out taking money from lobbyists. "A lot of these lobbyists," the former first lady told an audience of bloggers, "whether you like it or not, represent real Americans. They actually do. They represent nurses, they represent social workers -- yes, they represent corporations that employ a lot of people." Clinton's views on the subject are all well and good. But with a recent poll showing that a full 56 per cent of Americans believe most congressional votes are for sale, it may not have shown a dynamite sense of political acumen.

Still, U.S. voters aren't the only ones worried about the ethics of their political class. Political corruption has citizens from Britain to Brazil up in arms. Below is a sampling of global opinion on the topic.

In Britain, 62 per cent of respondents think that campaign donations influenced now former prime minister Tony Blair's appointments to the House of Lords. Four men who secretly donated money to the governing party were later nominated for peerage by the prime minister.

In Russia, 54 per cent of respondents think corruption has continued during the presidency of Vladimir Putin. In 2003, Putin established an anti-corruption committee, which has been criticized by the opposition as a tool to punish wealthy businessmen who do not support his regime.

In Brazil, where a scandal over alleged payments to smaller parties threatened to topple the government of Luis Inacio Lula da Silva, 41 per cent of respondents think corruption is the most embarrassing aspect of life in the country.

In Peru, more than 90 per cent of respondents think corruption is a severe problem. Peruvian President Alan García has implemented an "austerity" project, which entails a reduction in the salaries of "overpaid public servants."

In the Palestinian Territories, 87 per cent of respondents claim the government is corrupt. Last year, Hamas emerged victorious in the Palestinian Legislative Council election -- under the name List of Change and Reform -- by asking voters to "stop the monopoly of decision-making and put an end to corruption."

In Ukraine, 84 per cent of respondents think bribery is widespread. During his term in office, Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko has been dogged by allegations of corruption. He dismissed his entire cabinet in September 2005 to appoint a new roster of senior staff in an attempt to make the government more effective.

In Canada, 64 per cent of respondents think the Liberal Party has not done enough to regain the trust of Canadians since the sponsorship scandal.  [Tyee]

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  • Chris H

    4 years ago

    US voters

    "Still, U.S. voters aren't the only ones worried about the ethics of their political class."

    US voters are worried about the ethics of their political class? LOL. So worried that no third party has ever been able to mount a credible challenge to the two party system. Let's face it, American voters are lemmings. It is no wonder why so many have even given up voting altogether.

  • ME2

    4 years ago

    Yer right Chris

    When you have only Tweedledum and Tweedledee to choose from, why bother to vote?

    Hmmmm, sounds something like Canada, don't it? Mebbe we could put nummer three and four together and make up a third?

  • telus employee

    4 years ago

    Proportional Representation needed

    I agree with Chris H and ME2 that there are basically two parties in America (and Canada) that domoinate the government. But the problem isn't as much the poeple as the electoral system. The antiquated First Past The Post system used in Canada and the US was designed to for a two party system, one in power and one in opposition. Most democracies have moved on to a proportional system in the modern world.

    In Canada we continue to get 'majority' governments with less than half the counted vote. People end up voting for the party they least fear, rather than the party they desire most. Parties like the Green and NDP get underrepresented and the Conservative and Liberal become complacent and corrupt because they know they are guaranteed to be in power sooner or later no matter how bad they govern.

    PR won't end corruption, but it will give the voters more choices to replace corrupt governments with.

  • Fiat lux

    4 years ago

    Democracies always self

    Democracies always self destruct, because people are too lazy to think and make decisions for themselves, and the ruling classes always use individual freedoms for corruption and self enrichment to enslave others.

    But it only happened a few hundred times in history, so the message didn't sink in yet.

    Corruption will always exist, but looking back, I don't think these governments could have gotten away with such obscene degree of it 30 to 50 years ago. And I still blame the existing, ruling economic theories licencing it.

    Ed Deak.

  • Birch

    4 years ago

    Money and Power

    Since the beginning of civilization, money has purchased power, and the power of physical force has expropriated money. Plutocracy has always been alive and well, and of course, the greater the economic inequality in a country, the greater the potential for it to thrive.

    During the great revolutions which established republican democracies (or related forms thereof), greater social equality spread power more equally. This dynamic probably reached its global zenith some time after the New Deal in the USA and the establishment of Labour and its equivalents in Britain and parts of Europe.

    Based on this heritage, Canadians and citizens of other democracies have tended to assume the privileges of equality embodied in citizenship. However, as economic elites have fought back over the past few decades, that equality has been eroded. It shouldn't be much of a surprise that the increasing disparity in financial wealth in our societies has led to the common purchase of political influence and the casual dismissal of the desires of the majority. (This is obvious in such fiscal areas as health care, child care and education; continuing majorities press for government-financed services, but the government instead responds to the "imperatives" of tax cuts and other measures favorable to the wealthy.)

    The irony is that the way "public" opinion is spun by the corporate media, average citizens have been taught to focus dominantly on selective examples of governments' corruption (eg. Clinton sexcapades, Clark's sundeck misadventure, and the like) rather than much bigger problems such as TILMA, the tainted sale of BC Rail, the rape of Iraq, and so forth. Citizen outrage over these latter is commonly re-channeled into action over the former. Meanwhile government itself, which has been the primary institution for improving the lives of democratic citizens over the past couple of centuries, is smeared with scandal, and we are left with the plutocrats in charge.

  • Fiat lux

    4 years ago

    Very true , Birch.... The

    Very true , Birch....

    The most important thing we have to remember is that all governing plutocracies have been, and are built on the conspiracy of 3 sectors: The Merchants, now represented by multinationals and banks, the Priesthoods, now represented by economists and the Military, who'll serve anybody in power .

    All past and present empires and economic systems have been built on lies and fraud, sold by priesthoods. People have always been led by the nose, and up the scaling ladders by faith in screwball theories.

    The present plutocracies wouldn't be able to do a damn thing without the fraudulent teachings of economics in our universities, just as past, and to a great extent present, conquerors have always justified their actions with religious dogmas.

    As long as we subscribe to the economic dogma of the "competitive equilibrium of market economics", we can cry, scream, and whistle up the wall, it won't make any difference.

    Ed Deak.

  • Bailey

    4 years ago

    Priests of culture

    All these things are cultural artefacts. The seeking of power; the sycophantic sucking up to the wealthy, even when they're clearly nuts; the fetishistic attraction to money; not even money---to large numbers printed on bank statements and ledger pages. All rituals of culture.

    I think that the real priests of culture are artists. Those who manipulate the ritualistic meanings of a culture, apply those manipulated meanings to the minds of the members of the culture, and thus either reinforce things or change them.

    In this, one has to take a cultural view of art itself. What definition to apply to it? Some would define art narrowly, and limit it to images, or only to certain types of images or writings, but I would argue that all media which can be shaped and presented to the minds of the culture are art.

    That means that this Tyee is art, and these letters we post here are art. All similar media, capable of changing minds, and shaping thoughts and attitudes. All Art.

    Look at this piece here. Absolutely Scandalous. Influencing the minds of all of us here. The assumptions it doesn't even have to state are that taking money for influence is wrong. That it's contemptible, even though it might make you rich, when richness is so deeply held to be good. Deep cultural assumptions we all share without need to speak.

    The popular tv and print view of power is more and more as evil, seeking money by robbing, killing and betraying principles of the high culture. The "government" is more and more portrayed as the bad guys: men in black disappearing the heroes and heroines for low reasons.

    All of these portrayals are art by my broad definition, they all change minds and attitudes on some level.

    How long before the tipping point is reached, and the culture itself rejects the premise that money, or even property, are more sacred than the lives of whole segments of humanity and the natural world?

  • ME2

    4 years ago

    Well, there's a consensus

    Well, there's a consensus here that we live in a corrupted culture. However much I might agree with that analysis, I also agree with those who say it's just the same old same old, having read too many critiques of their cultures written by thinkers of their times, all of which which sound too similar to our own.

    In times past, the enervated culture either collapsed or was overrun by a newer, more vigorous group. I don't see either of those denouements for us.

    IMHO, today we Westerners live a comparative good life, fueled by Capitalism and Democracy. The issue for our times is which of the three methods of managing Capitalism - Communism, Socialism or Fascism - will supervene.

    If either the first or the third succeed, any hope of managing Capitalism for the benefit of all will be lost. Only with Socialism can Democracy succeed, and proof of that is written plain as we watch the Fascists strive to dismantle the Social Safety Net and "privatise" public assets.

    Those who hold that Capital cannot be controlled have to remember that today wealth is measured with (as Ed says) fiat money, which is in turn guaranteed only by mutual adherence to law. No longer do they gather up a bunch of peons to steal the goodies from each other in a war, today they do it in Court.

    And we can do it in Court too, and with the vote, if only we can get together long enough to do it.

  • rockyvoids

    4 years ago

    Too late

    By the writing on the wall, we can see it all happening again. The coming crash.
    Not only should we been having the separation of Church and State, but also having a separation of Business and State.
    Although the first separation is a leaky boat fast filling.
    No, we'll keep bellying up to the wishing-wells of lotteries, drugs, pie-in-the-sky gotta have gadgets.
    My hope is that the crash will come before humanity succeeds in getting of planet and spreading this cancer further.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Be Nice

    One thing that could be done in Canada to endear the population to politicians would be to increase the wealth by lowering taxes. It works! Yet another example here:

    Iceland's tax reduction lesson for Canada

    NEIL REYNOLDS

    August 15, 2007 at 7:48 AM EDT

    OTTAWA — What's the best way to expand a welfare state, irrationally assuming for the moment that you want to expand a welfare state? Cut taxes. Especially cut corporate taxes. You will collect less revenue every time you nick a dollar but you will have many more dollars to nick - and you will almost certainly find yourself with more tax revenue than you know what to do with. Iceland is a good example. Though tiny in population (with 280,000 people, it has only twice the population of Prince Edward Island), Iceland provides a compact manual to supply-siding your way to public sector expansion, a large-type Big Government for Dummies guidebook.

    Iceland now collects far more revenue (as a percentage of gross domestic product) from a low corporate tax rate (18 per cent) than it used to collect from a high corporate tax rate (50 per cent). Thoroughly Nordic in its instincts, the country has used part of this windfall revenue to buy more government - even as other countries have cut back on government. In 1992, Iceland's government spending accounted for 32 per cent of a stagnant GDP. Now it accounts for 40 per cent of an expanding GDP, a 25-per-cent increase in public sector share in 15 years.

    cont.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    etc.

    Iceland now buys marginally more government than Canada buys (39.5 per cent of GDP) with cut-rate taxes on personal income and corporate profits - indeed with less than one-half the Canadian rates.

    However you split up Iceland's increase in national income, this small country's economic transformation in the past 15 years has made it a supply-side example to the world. A basket-case economy in the 1980s, with an inflation rate that hit 100 per cent, Iceland is now the fifth-richest country in the world (based on per capita GDP, adjusted for purchasing power, of $40,000 U.S.). In the International Monetary Fund listing, the only richer countries are (tax haven) Luxembourg, (oil-rich) Norway, (low-tax) Ireland and the U.S. (Canada ranks 10th with per-capita GDP of $35,600).
    Lower taxes - and paradoxically higher tax revenue - have helped transform Iceland from a basket-case economy in the 1980s into the fifth-richest country in the world, based on per capita GDP.

    Lower taxes - and paradoxically higher tax revenue - have helped transform Iceland from a basket-case economy in the 1980s into the fifth-richest country in the world, based on per capita GDP. (Simon Johnson/Reuters)
    The Globe and Mail

    Hannes Gissurarson, a professor of politics at the University of Iceland in Reykjavik and author of a forthcoming book on what he calls "Iceland's renaissance," says the decisive factor in the country's success has been the elimination of high tax rates on income - whether personal or corporate.

    In a paper co-written with U.S. economist Daniel J. Mitchell and published this month by the Washington-based Cato Institute, Prof. Gissurarson says "Iceland's paradox" - lower tax rates, higher revenues - "documents a strong Laffer Curve effect." Before Iceland lowered its rates on personal income and profits, he says, these taxes collected revenue equal to 9 per cent of GDP. They now collect revenue equal to 18 per cent.

    cont.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    etc.

    Named for Arthur Laffer, the California economist who inspired Ronald Reagan's tax cuts in the 1980s, the Laffer Curve holds that there are two tax rates that will produce the same amount of revenue - one of them high, one of them low. A corollary is that, masochism aside, low rates are preferable to high rates. Iceland provides laboratory proof. It began cutting rates in 1992, incrementally reducing its taxation of "productive activity."

    By the end of the decade, the rate on corporate income had fallen to 18 per cent and the rate on investment income (dividends, interest, capital gains) had fallen to 10 per cent (from 40 per cent). Though nominally high at 36 per cent (down from 48 per cent), Iceland's flat tax on personal income contains a universal deduction that protects significant income from any tax. (Iceland funds municipal spending through a separate income tax; the central government's flat-rate income tax is 22 per cent.)

    Only two countries have lower tax rates on "productive activity" - Ireland (with its celebrated 12.5-per-cent rate) and Hungary (with a 16-per-cent rate).

    In Iceland, the impact has been remarkable. In 1998, the country's 40-per-cent rate on investment income produced 2 per cent of government revenue; in 2006, its 10-per-cent rate produced 14 per cent of government revenue. Economic growth accelerated, averaging more than 4 per cent a year for the past decade, more than 6 per cent for the past three years.

    Prof. Gissurarson and Mr. Mitchell do not herald Iceland as a low-tax country; rather as a country that uses low tax rates to encourage saving and investment. On the other hand, it taxes consumption in the usual European manner with high (24 per cent) sales taxes. Yet the two economists insist that Iceland's tax rate reductions are, beyond any doubt, "a supply-side success."

    The lower rates produce faster economic growth, which produces an expanding tax base, which produces "healthy" rises in revenues.

    High tax rates are counterproductive - whether judged from an economic or ideological perspective. Yet Canada clings to them, champions them. Why?

  • zalm

    4 years ago

    Your point being....?

    I think you may have a point R'man, in that giving fewer taxes initially to politicians may cause them to be less corrupt with what they are given in taxes, but I could be wrong. In fact, I probably am, because I'm not a politician who is at the mercy of every lobby group that happens along.

    I'm all for lower taxes, but I would insist that what lower taxes we have paid, at least at the provincial level, has not gone to the most needy in our society like I would have intended. Instead it has gone to subsidies to mining businesses and transportation firms, while real estate developers refuse to pay their own way in waste management and services for the developments they build.

    Once it is acknowledged that lower taxes as a means to the end of a fairer distribution of society's resources (note I did NOT say "wealth") for all, then we have something to talk about. Until then, your three pages of comment are as of little moment as the opinions of the President of Kazakhstan.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    It's funny

    As soon as I read Neil Reynold's column this morning I thought to myself - 'Wonder how long it'll be before the R/Man puts that sucker up as a reference?'

    Must have been prescient - he liked it so much he posted the whole thing. Even the utterly out of place nonsense about the Laffer curve.

    Are you going to start using Iceland as your new avatar now R/man? Time to throw over the Emerald Tiger for the Frozen one?

    Before you blow that trumpet too hard you might want to check the population of the place - less than half the population of Vancouver; that's the city of Vancouver - not the metropolitan area either.

    There are about 300,000 permanent residents in the place - a remarkably homogenous population in an area about 3 times the size of Vancouver Island (which has more than double the population). Incomes are very equally distributed and the government is highly socialistic. Reynolds, as usual, hasn't done his homework and neither, apparently, have you.

    About 70% of Iceland's income comes from the fishing industry although there has been some attempt lately to diversify into tourism and technical areas.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    Also

    The statistics Reynolds quotes are highly questionable. Not only does he have the population figure wrong, his growth figures are out of whack too.

    Quote:
    Iceland's Scandinavian-type economy is basically capitalistic, yet with an extensive welfare system (including generous housing subsidies), low unemployment, and remarkably even distribution of income. In the absence of other natural resources (except for abundant geothermal power), the economy depends heavily on the fishing industry, which provides nearly 70% of export earnings and employs 6% of the work force. The economy remains sensitive to declining fish stocks as well as to fluctuations in world prices for its main exports: fish and fish products, aluminum, and ferrosilicon. Government policies include reducing the current account deficit, limiting foreign borrowing, containing inflation, revising agricultural and fishing policies, and diversifying the economy. The government remains opposed to EU membership, primarily because of Icelanders' concern about losing control over their fishing resources. Iceland's economy has been diversifying into manufacturing and service industries in the last decade, and new developments in software production, biotechnology, and financial services are taking place. The tourism sector is also expanding, with the recent trends in ecotourism and whale watching. Since 2000 growth has varied from -1% in 2002 to 8% in 2004. The 2006 closure of the US military base at Keflavik had very little impact on the national economy; Iceland's low unemployment rate aided former base employees in finding alternate employment.

    Source: CIA Factbook.

    So maybe, like almost everything little Neil writes, this one too should be taken with a hefty dose of the salts.

  • ME2

    4 years ago

    Yes, G West, R-man's

    Yes, G West, R-man's offering is yet another example of the old saying that "figures don't lie, but liars do figure" (I acknowledge that R-man is quoting someone else)

    Quote:
    Iceland is now the fifth-richest country in the world (based on per capita GDP, adjusted for purchasing power, of $40,000 U.S.). In the International Monetary Fund listing, the only richer countries are (tax haven) Luxembourg, (oil-rich) Norway, (low-tax) Ireland and the U.S. (Canada ranks 10th with per-capita GDP of $35,600).

    Pretty impressive, but if one takes even a quick look at the means whereby these countries have achieved their status (stati? :-)), it becomes obvious their strategies are very different from each other.

    Norway, for example, is a very Socialistic country noted not only for careful husbanding of resources and the profits from them - such as with the oil industry - but it also for imposing very high personal and corporate income taxes.

    On the other hand, the US as #4, just ahead of Iceland, is a prodigious wastrel of its own and other's resources. Even with its relatively low tax-rates it is an economic basket-case, kept on international life-support only because if it is allowed to collapse, it will bring the rest of us down with it.

    R-man doesn't seem to wonder why #4 US has such an embarassingly large proportion of poor and working-poor in its population compared to other Western countries. Perhaps this will prod him into figuring out who those low taxes actually helped.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Diversifying and Growth

    As you, West, point out. Iceland has diversified and expanded their businesses. They have done this by lowering corporate taxes and thereby attracting new businesses and investments and, therefore, the government has received more income.

    What the government does with that income is another story.

    The fact is corporate taxes were lowered and government coffers grew.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    And furthermore

    As demographics and other statistics show Iceland ain't much of an example of anything - except how housing subsidies and an abundance of geo-thermal energy will give a tiny country a little leg up.

    Not to mention the fact that they don't have any defence or military budget at all and that 70% of their income comes from fishing - he also hasn't mentioned the enormous VAT that Icelanders pay, but, coming from Great Britain as he does, he probably doesn't care to bring THAT up.
    If pee wee weren't burning up billions in his Afghanistan adventure and actually enforced a fair tax system instead of the dogs' breakfast we have here now - tax rates for individuals would go down and the range of brackets would flatten too.

    Much ado - like everything Reynolds writes - about nothing.

    Lowering corporate tax rates does not stimulate the economy in any kind of a sustainable way - especially in light of lax competition and monopoly rules. They should call it the LAUGHTER curve - not the Laffer curve. Reagan created (until Bush) the biggest deficit economy in the world and all the people who've been using their houses like ATMs in the States are starting to suffer for it now.

    What a joke! As for those government coffers growing - the US is currently almost 9 Trillion dollars in debt...that's a real laugher!

  • Bailey

    4 years ago

    A plan

    There are several different elements to this corruption. One would have to address a lot of things.

    A lot of money is a suspicious circumstance. Who was it that said 'Every great fortune is based on a great crime; the greater the fortune, the greater the crime" ? We ought to treat it as such.

    The close examination of the origins and histories of the billionaires, and publication of their stories might help with that.

    We absolutely must seperate the guardian class from the functionary class. Eisenhower's 'military-industrial complex' is a criminal organisation. That was the point of his speech, and it still is true. Politicians who carry out the work of corporations, military officers who move directly from their service to high paid industrial jobs, these people are clearly betraying their oaths. It should be prosecutable. It should at least be widely seen for what it so clearly is. Criminal.

    It's the job and the sworn duty of these guardians to protect the state from these influential interests, and regulate them in such a way that they can function honestly, and profitably, to the benefit of society. They're failing.

    There needs to be a reprioritisation of the means of distribution of essentials. Essentials from a social point of view, I mean. Food, shelter, education and transportation. Medical, maybe. For people to function and contribute to their communities, they need all these covered.

    There isn't enough work needed in this technical age for everybody to have some, unless you start sending thousands of slave coolies to replace one dumptruck. The idea that all must work or starve is stupid. It's a bigotted religious expression of the sinful nature of others. It needs to be discarded. You can no longer expect to always find productive jobs necessarily. Except...

    One reason early Capitalism was successful was that the rich could pursue whatever crackpot scheme they thought might work. Till their money was gone. Some of these worked. Some worked spectacularly even, and took us all forward. That principle can be applied to the whole population. Educate them, give them stability in their lives, then watch what they come up with. You don't know who will be the next Ford or Tesla, but without education and stability, it seems certain nobody will.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Am I confusing you with the Facts?

    Quote:
    Iceland's economy is highly export-driven. Marine products account for the majority of goods exports. Other important exports include aluminum, ferro-silicon alloys, machinery and electronic equipment for the fishing industry, software, and woolen goods.

    Aluminum smelting is the most important power-intensive industry in Iceland. There are currently two plants in operation, with one under construction and two in the planning stage.

    Alcan owns a plant in Straumsvík near the town of Hafnarfjörður which has been in operation since 1969. Its initial capacity was 33,000 metric tons per year (mtpy) but has since been expanded several times and now has a capacity of 180,000 mtpy. Alcan is studying the feasibiliy of expanding the plant to a capacity of 460,000 mtpy;

    United States-based aluminum manufacturer Alcoa has become a major investor in Iceland and has a major plant under construction near the town of Reyðarfjördur.

    Iceland enjoys high levels of freedom from corruption, investment freedom, trade freedom, financial freedom, property rights, business freedom, fiscal freedom, and monetary freedom. A point of pride is that Iceland is rated as the world's least corrupt economy.

    I would have thought that many of theses attributes were ones that a BC'er would wish to emulate, West. The maritime economy and the aluminum from plentiful power seem to also mirror BC. The absence of corruption is also pertinent to Reid's article. Why do you so often refute unquestionable facts that make people's lives better? I thought that your were in favour of an expanded government with healthy finances for social programmes. Iceland's history of lowering taxes has been a great success for their people.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    Baloney

    Iceland has no military budget, not a single drop of oil and until a few years ago Icelanders who wanted to buy consumer goods flew to either St John's or Boston.

    If they make deals with Alcan like the BC Government has just made here with BC Hydro I pity them. Much ado about nothing - just like the Laffer curve. You only pay attention to the 'facts' that tend to support your point of view R man the reason it's a non-corrupt economy is because it is a socialist economy and a relatively egalitarian one.

    Ten years ago it's biggest export was Bjork. It's perfectly fine to lower taxes for everyone if the taxation regime is relatively flat and fair. When things go a little sour, as they will when the corporate types start leveraging their compromised assets, as they always do.. things will change. As for Reynolds column, he doesn't even have the GDP growth factors right.

    Spare me. Your system won't work in Canada because we have governments who care more about their friends and their ties to the business community you love so much that it never can happen. More handouts to commerce will just make things worse for your friends and mine who can't afford a ridiculously inflated home now.

    You might want to check the markets today - it's all going bad. It's a shame that's the only way we seem to learn - the TSE has now lost 15% since the start of the year and billions have gone up in smoke because they've been worshipping the system you love. Sad, sad stuff. If we'd built the country we should have done from the 70s this wouldn't have happened - we'd have a much more egalitarian society like Iceland's.

    Sad.

    By the way, have you checked the VAT in Iceland?

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    A Socialist Economy, you say

    Quote:
    Economy—overview: Iceland's Scandinavian-type economy is basically capitalistic, yet with an extensive welfare system, low unemployment, and remarkably even distribution of income. The economy depends heavily on the fishing industry, which provides 75% of export earnings and employs 12% of the work force. In the absence of other natural resources—except energy—Iceland's economy is vulnerable to changing world fish prices. The economy remains sensitive to declining fish stocks as well as to drops in world prices for its main exports: fish and fish products, aluminum, and ferrosilicon. The center-right government plans to continue its policies of reducing the budget and current account deficits, limiting foreign borrowing, containing inflation, revising agricultural and fishing policies, diversifying the economy, and privatizing state-owned industries.

    Socialist, if you say so. Sounds OK to me. I also have no problem with high consumer taxes (VAT at 24%). Lower corporate and personal taxes, as they have done in Iceland, and raise consumption taxes - OK.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    No, not OK you completely ignore the fact that

    The corporate giveaway will, if followed the way it has been here since the 70s - just lead eventually to concentrations of wealth in fewer and fewer hands.

    Tax every dollar, no matter how earned, the same and you'll get your lower tax rates and flat tax structure. Get it?

    If the centre right government follows the current tack - just like the idiots did in both Maggie the T's UK and the States (and as we're doing here) it'll all end up in the pockets of a few corporate kleptocrats.

    Why can't you and Reynolds see something that's as obvious as the nose on your face?

    You pretent to care about equity and fairness while you're shilling for dissemblers who've lied to you and everyone else.

    It doesn't work. PERIOD.

    And you should be able to see, if you're following the actions of central banks all over the world, how dangerous your worn-out ideas really are.

    Wake up man - the west is being run into bankruptcy by people who couldn't give a damn about the average citizen. Even a so-called philanthropist like Gates can't see that that the aid he's given to places like Ghana is actually making things worse - infant mortality there is rising - not falling and Care has finally decided to stop taking American 'tied' aid because of the negative effects.

    Christ man, Iceland has 300,000 people - and absolutely nothing to teach an economy like Canada's.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Sounds like Maggie talking

    Quote:
    If they make deals with Alcan like the BC Government has just made here with BC Hydro I pity them. ...When things go a little sour, as they will when the corporate types start leveraging their compromised assets, as they always do.. things will change....it's a non-corrupt economy is because it is a socialist economy and a relatively egalitarian one.

    A couple of years ago Alcan was awarded with the Highest Business Honours afer 40 years in Iceland. Don't know about, "when things go sour". If it's a non-corrupt economy and, as you say, a socialist and egalitarian society does that mean that you a actually a right winger because you say that we have, "absolutely nothing" to learn from them?

    I'm shocked. GWest utterly dismisses anything to do with a corrupt-free egalitarian society that he himself calls highly-socialist because its small.

  • zalm

    4 years ago

    Alcan awarded what?

    I suppose they were awarded that honour because they were actually making aluminium at their aluminium plant in Iceland. Here in BC, they're running on one shift (a buddy came down to find work in the Lower Mainland last year after the maintenance shutdown - he was told that the second shift would never start back up) despite selling into a strong (though not rising) market, yet Alcan sees fit to sue for increased water removals from the Nechako to increase their power exports but not to make more aluminium! What gives?

    In the global market, it's easier for Alcan to increase profits per dollar invested by marketing power from BC simply because it can. If there were a submarine transmission cable to the British Isles from Iceland, Alcan would be selling power to Britain into a pricier market, and shutting down aluminium production in Iceland, while running three shifts at Kitimat. But they're not. It's a global economy, and Iceland's gain is our loss.

    To boot, Alcan is guaranteed its low water rates for power production regardless of whether that power is used in aluminium production (as was originally intended in the contract) or whether generated for export sales. The BCUC, with interventions from private citizens tried to fight that one (that was part of the lawsuit that was settled last year) but lost. Once again, BC taxpayers get ripped off by giving away the water to Alcan but getting only a few of the promised jobs in return.

    And we - citizens, employers, businesses, institutions, everything - still have to purchase our made-in-BC-advantage-cheap-hydro-power at world market rates because Gordo privatised Hydro in order to conform to....what?.... someone remind me again why we're supposed to pay market rates for our made-in-BC-advantage?

    Sheesh. Is clear thinking really in such short supply?

  • G West

    4 years ago

    Those stupid business awards

    You must know business awards don't mean a damn thing anyway R/man - just a bunch of thieves getting together to down a few jars and pat each other on the back. Doesn't mean anything in Iceland or in Canada except for business worshippers and wannabes.

    Someone I know was middle manager for Delta Hotels the year they were voted one of BC's best companies to work for (and they made the top 50 in Canada that year too). He left because he wouldn't continue to do the kind of squeezing his superiors were constantly forcing him to do to get more for less out of the people who actually did the work in the hotels he worked at.

    I didn't dismiss anything R/Man - I just said it was meaningless as an example - as I pointed out earlier, it's not very long since Iceland's biggest money making export was Bjork - and I wasn't kidding. It's just plain irrelevant - and if you think that a 24% VAT would sell in this country, where 80% of the working population can't afford a home anymore, you're smoking something besides tailor-mades these days.

    As for the reason it's not corrupt (if it truly isn't) - did you ever think that's largely because it IS egalitarian?

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Maybe 20%

    Right now in BC 6+7 is 13%, another 7 with a concurrent reduction in personal federal tax would be acceptable.

    What could be egalitarian?

    A high consumption tax combined with a lowered personal tax puts more cash into people's pockets, encouraging higher levels of savings and less frivolous spending. Since more people are living on credit and are overextended, as you have said, I would have though that that was right up your alley West.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    I disagree - it just plays into the hands of corporate interests

    The point is realisticman, you go at the problem from the wrong end. The Nixon/Reagan/Thatcher nonsense has gotten us into this mess - why prolong the pain and continue to make things worse.

    Tax every dollar no matter how you earn it and you'd get your tax reductions without a huge and administratively hateful consumption tax. You'd have flat tax rates and they'd be lower for everyone and there would be far less chance of people fiddling with the system the way they do now. I'm all for putting cash in peoples' pockets - but not just Gordon Campbell and his friends' pockets.

    All high consumption taxes do is stimulate the black market - just like rationing.

    Time to enter the real world. If Iceland's doing well it's doing well for the reasons I've advanced not the crock that Reynolds is selling.

    How many times do you have to have it demonstrated to you that this ain't working?

    Things are no so desperate that benny boy bernanke had to drop the discount rate by .5 of a point and the Canadian Financial community is spinning like a top trying to figure out how they can keep the contagion at bay: At the very same time that the forest industry is going up in smoke because of the melting housing economy in the States.

    A situation that isn’t likely to start to improve till about 2009. We’re in for trouble realisticman and you and I both know how we got here.

    And that is ABSOLUTELY SCANDALOUS!

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    It's Bjork

    Bjork first and foremost then fish. That what makes Iceland scandal free and wealthy. It has nothing to do with low corporate taxes and corresponding business investments in software development and pharmaceutical developments and high consumption taxes which reduce rampant consumerism. Or aluminium production and investments by Alcan and Alcoa. Nothing to do with diversifying the economy, and privatizing state-owned industries. It's mainly Bjork. Thanks for the clarification Mr. West.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    You might want to ask

    You might want to ask the people of Kitimat how they feel about Alcan - easy to pretend things are rosy in a tiny country in the middle of the North Atlantic that is afraid to join the EU; that has no oil and couldn't defend itself if it were attacked by a herd of voracious sea lions because it has no defence budget.

    The point is R/man, you haven't actually addressed a single one of the obvious holes in Reynold's ariticle - from his flawed statistics to his lack of information about Iceland's geothermal energy, centralized heating system and housing subsidies.

    Canadians who live in a far north and isolated environment like Iceland get a sizeable tax break now - otherwise they wouldn't live there. Icelanders are pretty much the same.

    Next time try and pick an example that actually means something. Not a country whose closest Canadian analogue is Prince Edward Island.

    I've always liked Bjork though. And, you might find, if you look, that there are more people of Icelandic heritage in Manitoba than there are in Iceland. The most renowned poet in the Icelandic Language is a Canadian. If all those folks, like the refugees from Ireland who left their homeland cause things were so desperately bad there, had thought things were as great as you do they never would have left.

    Thin out the survivors long enough and survival isn't such a difficult thing for a while.

    In the end, if Iceland is successful it'll be on account of the spirit and cooperation of the people who live there - not because a few neanderthals still think that corporations care for anything but themselves. Watching the hedge fund gurus and the banks and the rosy scenario doughheads try to pretent we're not suffering from 30 years of thievery is pretty interesting though.

    Sadly, the close ties our Canadian Governments have built with the US probably mean a lot of Canadians are going to start to suffer soon too.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Et tu...

    Sounds a lot like Canada to me. In fact Canada may be easier to secure a mortgage loan.

    Quote:
    The Housing Financing Fund dominates the Icelandic housing credit market ...
    The Housing Financing Fund is a public sector institution and by far the largest supplier of credit in the Icelandic mortgage market. It lends both for social and private housing, for construction and older properties alike. Loans are secured with a mortgage that may be equivalent to up to 90% of market value in the case of social housing, 70% for first-time private buyers and 65% in other cases of purchases in the secondary market

    http://www.sedlabanki.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=4591

    Once again, like Ireland, the facts get in the way of your socialist argument, West.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    No they don't

    Not until you get all the Irish Canadians and Icelandic Canadians and Limey Canadians to come and tell me why they're sorry they left their countries and came to Canada.

    Moreover, if they do so tomorrow, I'd welcome them to catch the first steamer back.

    Those are the facts people like you never want to contend with and you know it R'man - thin out the plants enough on the ground and almost anything can live anywhere.

    Once again, you're apparently incapable of understanding:
    a) why Iceland isn't an avatar of anything because of its size, the homogeneity of its population, the special circumstances of its climate and geography and whatever temporary positive results may appear to obtain, they
    b) in no way contradict the scandalous record of what neo-classical economics and elitist government have done to a decent place like Canada,
    c) and which, as is now happening in Ireland and will soon happen in Iceland, no doubt, turns into a nightmare for the average family who ought to have the rewards you're more than prepared to shower on corporate kleptocrats like Alcan and its enabler Gordon Campbell.

    The point is, you've simply been taken in by the lies and can't see the truth of it.

    I notice a lot of American 'manufacturers' are also discovering that products created by cheap deracinated labour are almost always cheap deracinated goods - damaging both the soul and the health of their creators and their ultimate users - all for the profit of the people YOU seem to worship.

    But go ahead – ignore the writing on the wall; keep your fingers crossed because that’s about all this bankrupt gilded age has going for it.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Dear Pastor West

    Don't get your knickers in too tight a knot. I was merely pointing out that mortgages are as easy, if not easier, to obtain in Canada as they are in Iceland and that they are often for a higher proportion of the purchase price. This, of course is what constitutes housing subsidies in Iceland. Therefore, your supposition, one amongst the erroneous many, that housing subsides are one of the main reasons for Iceland's magnificent successes is also wrong.

    Since I find your comment regarding homogeneity a tinge distasteful I shall ignore it. If you would care to climb out further on this limb and explain yourself I'm sure we would all benefit from your insight as to the superiority of less racially mixed societies than ours and their concurrent social superiorities - as you seem to be suggesting.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    No it's not R/man

    The point about homogeneity is pretty obvious. I shouldn't have to explain it - egalitarian societies are a lot easier to imagine when people look and act alike - when they share a history, a culture and an outlook...when they don't have to deal every day with the 'other'.

    You're the one who, a bit more than a year ago made a personal remark about someone 'cruising' around looking at Indian villages and reservations as a memento mori of the fact that there ain't much equality or common shared purpose in this place called Canada.

    But by all means, continue to ignore it - you seem to manage to ignore all the problems that exist in this place because of our colonial and imperial background, something to which the current corporate kleptocracy of YOUR avatars adds insult to injury. This system and these crooks are not my fault - you're the one who cheers the system that is going to lead to about 10 million Americans losing their homes.

    Not me.

    You're the one who can't make a decent case for reducing corporate taxes because it just simply will not work - not me.

    Unless such reductions are part of a thoroughgoing reform and rebalancing of the whole taxation structure such an action will - as BC and the USA and Australia proves in spades - do little more than concentrate more wealth in the hands of folks who currently have too much already.

    I'm not saying that racially pure countries are better - I'm simply observing that multicultural and pluralistic ones are a lot more difficult to manage and imagine as humane places. Running just beneath the surface of this country and this province especially is a strong and noxious current of racism and prejudice. Just wait until the recession starts to cut and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

    By the way, you're the one who claims Iceland is a magnificent success, not me.

    I just think it's irrelevant and, like everything Neil Reynolds writes (and I read him all the time) pretty much worthless as a model for anything other than ICELAND. Furthermore, your championing of Alcan - a company which came to BC to smelt aluminium (and now seems loathe to actually do that)- which is now Gordon Campbell's putative electricity saviour is really pretty funny. Might be wise to remember that.

    And, I'd advise them (the Icelanders) to keep their eye on 'em too - such companies care nothing for anything but the bottom line - a corporation can never, by definition, be a good citizen of any country. It serves another master and cares nothing whatever about the public good.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Curb your Cynicism

    GWest

    Quote:
    the west is being run into bankruptcy by people who couldn't give a damn about the average citizen. Even a so-called philanthropist like Gates can't see that that the aid he's given to places like Ghana is actually making things worse - infant mortality there is rising - not falling and Care has finally decided to stop taking American 'tied' aid because of the negative effects.

    I just had a 40 minute conversation with a young man that yesterday returned from 2 months in Malawi, entirely at his own cost. He was there working in a hospital. He, without my mentioning it, said that gifts of anti-viral drugs from the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation had stabilized the infection rate and that the malaria infection rate has reduced to virtually zero since another American company supplied mosquito nets free to all.

    Caring for the public good is alive.

  • G West

    4 years ago

    That's not cynicism

    The problem with donors like Gates and Buffett (and Oprah Winfrey for that matter) is that they target a specific and very local goal and frequently ignore the broader implications of the way they do aid. I have no doubt that there are areas where the malaria infection rate in Malawi has been reduced to zero and I'm sure Bill and Melinda are using that very specific result to emphasize the fact that they are such lovely philanthropists. As for the overall situation, not so much.

    You might, for example, care to consult this data:http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator.cfm?IndicatorID=74&country=MW#rowMW

    Not for a moment to denigrate your young friend's dedication, it is however, much like suggesting that Oprah Winfrey's small elite girls' school is going to solve the problems of literacy for Africa's AIDS orphans. Too damn little and too damn late and usually too damn much phony Christian piety and elitism too boot. That compounded in Winfrey’s case with a selfish desire to re-make her own disastrous childhood by providing satin pillow covers for a handful of girls of a certain age. It is tokenism of the most vulgar kind.

    You might also want to look at the way the Gates foundation does things. They love to set up facilities and cut ribbons – dedicate a small tasteful bronze plaque and then they move on to other crusades. The actual tough work of finding local doctors and nurses (most of whom have been poached by the West), cutting through the red tape and corruption and establishing the necessary infrastructure links to make the tiny changes permanent and capable of being reproduced on a country-wide basis are left to impoverished local government. A viable clinic which is more than a day’s walking distance from the villages without medical services is about as useless as a bus without a steering wheel.

    In countries like Nigeria the facts are even more stark. Despite the promise of black gold and foreign investment, things on the ground are worse today than they were 30 years ago.

    I'm no cynic my friend I'm a realist. Most of the talk of big capital and the public good is garbage talk and blatant self-promotion – just like formal USAID - and the rest is self-aggrandizing feel-good nonsense. Much of it is a self-conscious effort to make up in later life for earlier sins of omission and commission (something along the lines of Andrew Carnegie’s guilt driven library binge) and the downright lies and deceptions that created the fortunes in the first place. Let me send you that Singer piece, read it, and then we'll talk.

    You might wish to start by reading this:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/16/world/africa/16food.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

    and then move on to this:

    http://www.care.org/newsroom/publications/whitepapers/food_aid_whitepaper.pdf

    Okay!

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Hate

    GWest

    Quote:
    Too damn little and too damn late and usually too damn much phony Christian piety and elitism too boot.

    My nephew is neither an elitist nor is he religious. He went with a colleague voluntarily and helped many in need. I will not advise him of your comments. That you dismiss the success of the anti-malaria campaign speaks volumes EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS -- TYEE MODERATOR

    If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.
    Hermann Hesse

  • G West

    4 years ago

    I don't hate anyone

    least of all you and your friends - read again what I wrote about him and his efforts:

    I have no doubt that there are areas where the malaria infection rate in Malawi has been reduced to zero

    and this:

    Not for a moment to denigrate your young friend's dedication...

    So please, refrain from the personal remarks and read what I actually wrote.

    And consult the data I provided - which does not in any way comport with what you're saying about the general case except in that there is a possibility that successes have been achieved in small areas - one of which is, no doubt, where your nephew has been working.

    Hate doesn't happen to be one of my methods - truth and honesty, as much as I can manage given the effort I put into it, are.

    By all means, I suggest you should share with your young friend as much REAL information about the problems of Africans as you can find. Dedication is no antidote for naïveté.

  • realisticman

    4 years ago

    Belittle, then

    Quote:
    Not for a moment to denigrate your young friend's dedication, it is however, much like suggesting that Oprah Winfrey's small elite girls' school is going to solve the problems of literacy for Africa's AIDS orphans.

    I read what you wrote. Did you?

  • G West

    4 years ago

    Absolutely not

    I don't denigrate Oprah Winfrey either. But if you think one fancy school for a few dozen carefully selected girls is going to solve the problem of literacy among orphans in Africa (or even just in South Africa) then I guess it's also easy to believe that the actions of a few dedicated amateurs are going to turn around the malaria situation in Malawi overnight - an impossibility clearly illustrated in the material I referenced above.

    It, like Winfrey's school, is little more than a drop in the bucket. Which is the point I was trying to make; a point which has evidently gone completely over your head while you turn to calling me names for allegedly insulting someone I had no idea was a relative of yours.

    You need a thick skin for this kind of debate my friend - a quality you're apparently lacking.

    You may think your 'young friend' (later identified as a nephew) is a real hero and I suppose he is in a quixotic sort of way. The problems of the Bill & Melinda way of doing aid are pretty well known. But you may wish to start your education with this document:
    http://www.foodfirst.org/files/pdf/policybriefs/pb12.pdf

    And, if you really are a Foreign Affairs reader, you must have seen this too:

    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070101faessay86103/laurie-garrett/the-challenge-of-global-health.html).

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