I'm curious why you ignored...

There are two pretty common approaches to this issue, which you haven't chosen to add. The first is multi-threaded conversations. The Tyee's comment threads can get long, and I've always thought there's a place for a tree-view style of comments which enables multiple conversations to be grouped together. This makes the conversations easier to distinguish and read.

The second is user moderation of comments. This is a proven tactic on a host of venerable online communities, from Slashdot on down. Why place the burden of moderation solely on the (apparently overworked) Tyee staff?

Thanks to the Editing Team

I hope that serious discourse and reflective commentary will now win the day instead of the all too often personal barbs which are cowardly and distracting.

Expand

I think this will be a good development. Having some guidelines and a chance to point out particularly good posts may encourage us all to be more thoughtful about what we write. My first impression is that the "expand this comment" feature is kind annoying; it could slow down the reading and interrupt the flow of the "conversation". Most comments are of reasonable length, so I don't really think it's necessary to truncate them.

Good stuff

I'm hopeful that this new emphasis / acknowledgement of comments will help weed out some of the "automatic" anti-Campbell comments that seem to follow most stories.

I'm not choosing sides on issues, but it has been disheartening to see so many story discussions revert to left vs. right politics on this reader-comment forum. Maybe this new setup will help to keep the comments constructive and less political.....or at least have some non-political reasonings, besides the partisan rhetoric.

We'll see what happens...

Self discipline and quality of writing

Closely monitoring the posts is a very good way to encourage those who post to be more thoughtful and to express themselves more clearly. These things are helpful in building relationships, finding employment and even ordering a hot dog from a street vendor.

These things also add to journalistic integrity and are more effective in subverting myths and legends the mainstream press expects us to accept.

I'll vote against the

I'll vote against the multithread idea and against the "expand this comment". I really prefer the way the comments have been set up to date.
I welcome the "best comment" idea for now, let's see how it plays out. My pet peeve is those commentors who don't care to proofread their posts for clarity and spelling mistakes. Please make the extra effort.

I have no objections....

to this new angle. My only hope is that if there are multiple thoughts on a news article and something libellous is made in a comment that only that part is edited and the rest remains. Some of us know the blatant libel statements but some of us are not in tune to the finer points.

it's a sad day

when one has to click a button to continue reading comments and continue to do so for most of the comments.

The system needs to get back to 2007 and not the newsgroup-ish 2000 style.

This won't encourage commenting, just the opposite methinks.

The urge to tinker is great online, but from a business perspective, you have to watch out you do not lose customers and simply become an echo chamber - but hey, no one will read this part of the comment because they would have to click a button.....that fade...so bad.

Back to the Globe and Mail, Huffington Post, et al.

I fail to see how this will increase page-views and increase revenue - just the opposite, imo.

I'm a designer and understand how one can get enraptured by pretty colors, etc, to the detriment of he purpose of the thing you create.

That green fade is atrocious and it's placement senseless.

...

My only complaint would be the "expand this thread" -- the extra clicking is going to drive me nuts, and possibly away from reading comments. I was also hoping for a spell check.

Let's give it a try...

I like the notion of better posts "rising to the top", but find the "expand" feature tedious. It might be less so, if the cut-off were a bit less restrictive.

clipping he tree

Well, it had to come...

I agree that an initiative was needed. Whether it will 'get people out of the woodwork' remains to be seen. My own democracy-based PR experiences do not leave high hopes. But never say never.

One thing would be important to me: If and when there are cuts in a commentary, please continue, as you have done, to indicate this. There is no meaning whatsoever to reading any input, if we cannot see whether or not this was all the person had to say. That kind of 'retouching' is why we are here and not in the mainstream media.

Thank you for your hard work and valiant attempts at keeping this worthwhile.

Pointless Fun

I dont think they serve any useful purpose at all except perhaps giving people the illusion their opinions are being heard.

Internet comment spaces like this can be fun and a good way to waste time at work.

But ultimately they are totally and completely pointless.

Spell check

Real time spell check is available in IE 7 and Firefox browsers. Other forum spell checkers I have used are the 'demand' version where you have hit a button to request the check.

An edit function would be nice to see. Just to make things interesting it should have a one hour time out.

Change is good!

"Racist, sexist or homophobic remarks are not allowed in Tyee threads."

"Personal insults of either Tyee writers or commenters are not allowed."

It will be interesting to see where the line is drawn. Obviously, there will be people who push the boundary. However, I think this new change could really make a difference. Congratulations to The Tyee on trying something different.

Expand this comment

Perhaps this new feature will force contributors to write more concisely. I also appreciate the Tyee paying attention to commentaries.

Libel and personal insults

It is a good that you bring up the all-important topics of libel and personal insults. Libel has been used throughout the centuries as the censure's most powerful weapon. The threat of libel actions have been routinely used to quash the publishing of damaging information (otherwise known as news). Furthermore, the decision about what is libel and what is not has consumed vast amounts of court time and effort, and has required (in some cases) the attention of the Supreme Courts of our countries to decide.

Which court rulings will you rely on to decide what is libel and what is not? Is there a 'court of appeal' in these cases? Does the author get a chance to amend his 'libelous' work, and are you going to run tutorials on how to make the necessary amendments where-ever appropriate? Or are you just going to anonymously remove the comment without stating cause or remedy, in the good tradition of any autocratic body?

On the question of personal insults, note that it is 'fair comment' to criticize the content on this article, including making statements that a film critic might routinely make about a film, such as that the changes to the comments section are pedestrian while claiming to be innovative, and autocratic while claiming to be more democratic. At the same time it would be considered a personal insult (and some might even say implicitly homophobic) if I were to say that you, David Beers, are a deceitful and a closet despot for implementing these 'new rules'. In truth, the insult is there for anyone with an IQ of over 90 to see. (Oops, I did it again). What I meant to say is: In truth, it is clear for most everyone to see that the insult is the same in both cases. I don't know you at all, Mr. Beers. We have never met. I do believe that you are an intelligent man, and articulate. Clearly you understand that, in either case, I am 'insulting' the written work and not the man.

It is my firm believe that, if you choose the role of censure, then you should take the role of educator and show those who comment 'inappropriately' how they might write their insults professionally, and slander with impunity.

This is my opinion, in any event.

Comments

So are short comments more desirable than long ones but not as desirable as no comment at all?

A few thoughts...

Darren Barefoot suggested comment threads. I personally find threaded interfaces useful for organizing my own email, but extremely annoying in situations where I'd like to scan large numbers of posts. I frequently do so with a mind to filtering by poster, subject matter etc. and without a search engine I find it easiest to scroll through a big list. It's also a means of reading in a way that most resembles a conversation.

I've learned a lot from certain posters on the Tyee, and I also find that commentary helps me clarify my own thinking on the discussion. I certainly wouldn't characterize comments as 'pointless'.

One question: has the Tyee considered an automated process to submit a FOIPP request whenever someone registers, that way they could provide an icon indicating that a poster was the recipient of a media-monitering contract ;-) ;-)

Good point...

...the first thing I did was hit 'Expand All'

real names

Useful change. The comment sections were often tough slogging.
It strikes me that the discussion would be improved if people were willing to use their real names, thus taking responsibility for their positions and the way they are presented.
Where that's not possible, a one-sentence reason would also be helpful - because I fear my employer would be angry, or the ministry would make my life miserable or whatever.
That's likely to change the tone of the discussion.
And yes, it would be better if the media was also much more diligent in its use of anonymous sources, which risks the same sorts of abuse.

Expand this comment

I read the Tyee almost every day and have never made a comment. This article has got me out of my comment shell. The Expand this comment feature must go!! It takes ten seconds to expand a comment and then you find there are only two more lines to be read.

Libel and insults

One needs a good course in libel law, what is libel and how to avoid it. Insults, are just that, an insults.

Of course the Tyee must pull libelous statements off the the blog because of legal action, but leave the insults, bad taste and all, as it shows the true nature of the poster or postee??

The best posts are of course libelous and insulting, but with finesse; with that certain stab in the back. And please no "F" words.

ah yes....expand all

missed that at first, right at the top before the first post. I'm liking that feature.

I hate the idea ...

I really and truly hate the idea of competing with my fellow Tyee commenters! And/or struggling to please the judges!!

Gosh darn, but it's so easy to identify and delete objectionable comments. Don't need all this corporate jazz.

Don't want prizes. Don't want competition. Don't want to be insulted.

There. So how difficult is that for an Editor to get his/her head around?

Don't understand the need for 'expand.'

I'm assuming readers have brains which are capable of automatically ignoring, accepting, congratulating or denying the validity of comments--even bypassing them and moving along to the next.

The 'best comments' feature seems childish and silly, and certainly better suited to a kindergarten class when the supply of shiny stars and coloured ribbons has been exhausted.

So, in my opinion, lets drop the 'expand' and the 'best opinion' features.

The beauty of a feisty forum is that the readers decide what is good and what is not. We all come with our own shut-off switches, and don't need the editors to tell us what is 'best' for us.

This is just creeping big-brotherism!

Understandably, the Tyee requires safeguards against libel, but what this other stuff has to do with improving the commentary is beyond me.

What's holding back the others?

Best Comment!

I'll post a comment once in a blue moon and I'll tell you it's not because of the tone of other comments or anything like that. I just don't have a lot of spare time to dedicate to commenting (or more precisely I choose to spend my free time doing other things?).

Also, please forgive me for putting "Best Comment!" at the beginning of this comment but I just could not resist seeing if that's really how the filter works.

I'm cautiously optimistic

But mainly hoping that this does not draw me back into a Tyee posting addiction. That's the real problem, I think, not the format. I loved the suggestion about a maximum post limit per day, to keep threads from being constantly policed by the strident bores with nothing else to do.

Public Participation

I always find it remarkable that people who operate in the public sphere are frequently surprised that others attack them for their points of view. If you're going to put your opinions and thoughts out in public, then be prepared to have someone respond. That awareness should hold true whether you're expressing a political ideology, or bitching about the movie reviews. The same goes for the writers. If your skin is so thin that you can't handle people angrily disagreeing with you, you're in the wrong profession.

Yes, expressions of hatred, whether in the form of homophobia, racism, or bigotry should be unacceptable, to say nothing of threats of violence. But cutting critique, when it is logical and well written, is terribly useful. It's good for the audience, and it helps the writers of the original articles. Of course, I'm not suggesting anyone feel grateful about being hammered in print, but critique can illuminate parts of your point of view that you simply take for granted. You may not change your mind, but the process of argument will help you better understand your ideas and notions. At the very least, it gives you a sense of how your audience thinks (or appears unable to think).

Personally, I know my comments on the Tyee can be harsh. I usually reserve the worst of that for other commenters, because they tend to be the ones who spout stupid or tasteless material. I feel most of the Tyee writers do a very good job. The only real exception to that is Terry Glavin. His sin isn't a differing ideology. That I can accept. But there is little I detest more than someone with a relentlessly one-sided opinion who fails to acknowledge reality. It's not just that he gets many facts wrong, which is bad enough, but he manipulates his facts to avoid an accurate picture of events. That is unacceptable from someone who makes claims on being a professional writer and journalist.

As for the technical changes to the comments, I think it is an excellent idea to experiment with different approaches. A lot of people have already suggested nesting threads, and that can have some utility, although it can also obscure the work of others. Personally, I think the best solution is some form of minor moderation. Too many commenters, who are too lazy to think, resort to name calling. Their efforts seem more directed at generating noise to drown out the real insight of others. The noise makers should be pruned, because they divert debate into an empty exchange of insult. Enlisting the audience to help in that effort, by letting them vote on individual comments, could be useful; as long as you have a means of tracking IP addresses to identify voting abusers (cookies help, but they can be removed, allowing people to vote again).

But all in all a wonderful effort on the part of the Tyee writers and staff. Keep up the good work.

Paul willcocks on anonymity

A decent point but it doesn’t get us very far.

There are so many valid reasons for posting under a device that the only folks, with a very few exceptions, who'd use their own names are the same people who do so now: Journalists, writers, politicians or people who are using their 'identity' to trump others' arguments.

Precisely because using their own name provides them with a form of advertising and a nominal leg up on the equally-intelligent and well-informed commenter who is not using her own name.
The point, surely, is that it's the quality of the idea and the discussion itself that is important and not who or what the author is.

I do see some real problems with this current manifestation – the software is much slower and less transparent now; the 'rating' system will tend to be subject to manipulation – especially since it is anonymous when the user is not signed in, and, it does not require the rater to state a ‘reason’ why a particular comment is either offensive or exemplary. Consequently, it will likely end up creating more busy work for Tyee editors and tech staff for very little benefit.
Anyone familiar with the site and interested in discussing a particular article will, as someone mentioned above, simply hit 'all comments' and 'expand all' and proceed as before.

The 'best comment' thing is useless as a corrective or rating measure of 'anything' because it has to be moderated through the subjective lens of an editor anyway. In the short term there will be some amelioration of the most extreme posts but, eventually, when someone like Yehuda Abraham arrives here again the only remedy then will be - as it was then - action by an engaged editor.

I fear the current changes may well simply make on-duty editors a lot busier than they were heretofore.

In fairness though: the jury is out - these are early days.

Like it

I haven't actually commented here in a while. I do like this though. I would recommend taking the "collapse" and "expand" function out. If the comment is worthy of being selected as a "best comment", show the whole thing.

I also hope you are liberal in what gets put in the "best comments". I'd like to see everyone's perspective. I'd suggest that only the foolish banter be relegated to the All comments thread.

I'm also concerned about the time it takes to make the "best" list. How about having all comments automatically start in the best thread, and be moved if they are deemed insulting, etc. etc.

Lively debate is good.

On second look.....

This is pretty good. It seems to remember your preferences. For example, when I move to a different thread, it remembers that I like the comments expanded and that I want to read all comments.

Therefore, nothing has to change if you don't want it to. However, it does provide passive readers, who want to read the article and a few insightful comments, with a more meaningful forum.

Those who wish to engage in never-ending, off-topic, repetitive banter can still do so.

Good, if dialogue is encouraged

By reading the comments to this point, I see a greater number of readers writing (mostly positive) comments than has normally been the case. I am also reading (somewhat between the lines) that there are some who have remained flies on the wall through fears of being swatted by others with hostile intent. I am glad that they have been encouraged by this new system.

I say, revisit the experiment after awhile to see if it was a success or if things need changing/tweaking. SIG

Suggest as offensive is too easy

Most people who hear something that is politically incorrect or too "fiesty" will use it. Some people will find a pro george bush post offensive!

Perhaps give each person who logs on to comment at most say 5 "suggest as offensive" uses. If not it will be used by some as a way to settle personal spats and a make work project since each "suggest as offensive" click will have to be checked out.

Expand All improvements needed.

The Expand All activation function seems to be missing from the Best Comments feature. Expand All does seem work with Best Comments if it's activated from within All Comments. But it would be nice to be able to activate Expand All from within Best Comments.

I'm a fast reader. Scanning through comments that are all expanded is much more efficient/convenient than repeatedly clicking on the expand button.

The Expand concept may be a good way to help slow readers, provided it's easy to turn off and on from within the Best Comments section and provided each reader's preference is saved and activated with each logon.

If each reader could specify the number of characters or lines of each comment to be displayed before clicking on individual Expands is necessary, then I might set that at a fairly high level and use the Expand feature. This would also make it feasible to increase the number of characters permitted in each comment.

Even though I don't use the Expand function in its present form, I hope you don't get rid of it. In a democracy, it's important to get slow readers engaged.

Even if they don't use it themselves, the Expand function motivates writers to provide a descriptive headline plus a good summary in the first paragraph before launching into detail and providing some evidence for their opinions.

about time...

that something was done. I think that this system will work, but wonder why the staff did not decide to just let readers vote comments up or down. It might not be perfect, but I guess that it would work 99% of the time. The expand option keeps comments concise. Good idea.

The old Tyee was a much

The old Tyee was a much better site without all the bells and whistles and was blogger and reader friendlier!
Now, when I log on, I have to do a search for my blog name and then scroll to my last entry. When I logged on before I was automatically taken to my last blog.
But other than that The Tyee is tops and a bit addictive! lol
Espcially for people with physical disabilities, thank you.

Optional multi-thread/tree-style feature would be OK.

A few commenters are asking for a multi-thread/tree-style display feature. As with the Expand feature, a thread/tree-style feature could be helpful for slow readers. Even though I likely wouldn't use it myself, I wouldn't mind seeing that option available provided it's easy to turn off.

Changing configurations will likely be easier for fast readers than for slow readers. For the sake of inclusiveness, it could be better to orient default settings toward slow readers even if they are a minority in this forum.

Orwell was right

From an Orwellian perspective, it seems we may need the Rule of Law to save us from behaving badly. Many have behaved badly at The Tyee, so it has paved the way for increased dictatorial powers (martial law). I pray that Beers and Co. prove benevolent dictators who manage to increase thoughtful reader response through tethering the conch. SIG

Till 3:40 today

This thread had had a total of 56 comments: 34 of which rated the laurel wreath.

I've read them all and I can see no objective reason why the 40% that don't get gold stars are any less 'worthy' than the 60% that did.

Given the hassle to switch back and forth, and the headache it's likely to be for an administrator I can't imagine why anyone would bother rating a post as anything except if it were offensive and in violation of the rules. That does need to be brought to an editor's attention and it's a very welcome addition.

However, in my view, the ‘best comment’ thing is a waste of effort - without giving the commenter an opportunity to explain 'why' a comment should receive the gold star it's simply too subjective to be useful.

And if it comes to that the effect will be like dropping red flags – just more personal ad hominem remarks – the kind of thing that necessitated these changes in the first place.

That’s my view, at least so far. I’m also troubled by the number of posters here who’ve asserted that the nastiness is all a consequence of male posters' proclivities and prejudices.

I thought Tyee identities were between the registrant and the staff. Unless someone overtly specifies that they are either male or female – or uses a label which indicates a particular sex (and even that could be a ruse) I’d suggest the implication that male posters here are any more or less civil than female posters is either a consequence of meaningless speculation or a result of the fact that some insiders are using personal knowledge to draw that conclusion.

In an anonymous forum, the use of sex to push one’s advantage or to label and denigrate someone is no more acceptable than it would be in the real world. And that applies from both ends of the argument, in my view.

Any other opinions?

Please institute multi-threading

please pleASE PLEASE institute multi-threading, a must-have feature that is a staple of the most successful forums for years (e.g. Slashdot). the _main_ reason I usually avoid commenting is that threads are not grouped together. Scrolling down and picking through all the messages to determine which ones are part of a thread is a huge PITA, especially when there are lots of posts and scrolling is sensitive. it makes so much more sense to group a thread together, and give the option to expand/contract it.

I guarantee that it would make for a much _much_ improved forum experience.

How we're doing so far...

Thanks to all of you today for all the thoughtful comments on...commenting.

A few responses to some questions raised along the way.

Darren Barefoot asks why we didn't go with a solely reader moderated system, and with nested subthreads to allow 'side' discussions. We believe staff moderating, for now at least, allows us to be clear about the standards of conversation expected, and that's what a lot of readers were asking for -- more clarity and consequences when some commenters soured the threads. We are sticking with single threads for now given the goal is to focus conversation on the article itself rather than side conversations that quickly digress.

I should add that we're open to thinking about both ideas in the future, but wanted to roll these changes out now to get commenting back on track ASAP.

Some of you don't like fiddling with the compress/expand function. Please think of it as a tool you don't have to use if you don't want to. Just press 'expand all' and all the comments will be seen as the length posted.

Some have asked if it's really true that more males comment on The Tyee than females. That's what our reader survey showed. Of course, as some have pointed out, there is no way of knowing the gender of certain posters, even if the pseudonym they use seems masculine.

Hmmm. What else? We are going to go back and pick 'Best Comments' for articles that have run in the previous week. All other previous articles will only carry 'All Comments' and you will have to click that tab to read them.

You'll no doubt notice that almost all comments made it to 'Best Comments' today. Well, there were a lot of great comments. We may become a bit more selective for future pieces, but remember our criteria: adds new arguments, facts or insights and adheres to the rules. A fairly easy target to hit, no?

It's been a fascinating day for me and others here at The Tyee. We hope this new approach enriches your experience here.

oops

I too missed the "expand all" button at the top. Now I'm happy.

I'm also glad you're sticking with single threads. Simplicity and clarity are good things. The slightly new look is also pleasing to the eye. Well done, folks.

Expand feature is a pain in the a**

I welcome initiatives from the Tyee to improve the comment feature. Ok with most of the changes, except the expand feature and the "sexism" feature. Of course, if it prevents feminists from being sexists then that might be ok. However, factual/stats that would paint "women" or " men" as behaving in this or that manner should be accepted.

Congratulations Tyee

As a long standing reader and admirer of the Tyee, I have to say congratulations again David. How easy it is for an editorial board (or editor) to not tweak a system. Tweaking takes effort. And risk. As do all the most important things in life. If you get in the habit of taking risks, they become somewhat easier to do. This initaitive was a risk worth taking, as there there were some systemic problems with the first format which I'm sure many people complained about. I think this may keep the best part of the comments, while solving some of the worst of its problems. I'm certainly game to give it a go!

oops ...

I missed the expand feature in the all comments section. Mea culpa! Well done, Tyee!

Built in spell checker

I can take Tyee either way. But since Itype with two figers and can't spell as I hunt and peck, I sure would like some spell checker and i'm sure others would have the same wish. Using exploer I can't go up and use the tools section to read my own errors. The ideaod going to word to write a comment, then shoving it over to the Tyee sort of gets to be a bit of a drag

Dinner with Andre and Lynn...Guess Who's Not Coming to Dinner?

I feel the same way now about people who come to dinner at our house. I only want to attract and break bread with "quality people"....oh for the footloose and fancy free days when I cared not what others thought...

I remember the good ol' days though, a bottle of wine, good friends, good dinner. The sheer pleasure of my friends company. And the sheer ease of it all...and miraculously the conversation was great.

But now, like you, Tyee, I've got my standards. Good-bye simplicity. Hello to all that is ponderous and confusing.

I have new ground rules for my dinner guests, too: I ask them to keep their repartee short, otherwise I push a button and Jeeves the butler comes out and ever so nicely escorts the offenders by the neck to another room where they can expand on their silly long-winded stories to their silly heart's delight.

Now only soundbites, mere snippets of conversation are allowed at the main dinner table. (I only read Coles notes for the same reason. I mean War and Peace is sooooo long, and why read 400 pages when you can get absolutely "the same story value" by reading a mere 8 pages. (Geez, if only Tolstoy had known, it would have saved him.... (not to mention Proust).... a lot of time and needless effort.)

The other thing stressed at my oh-so-comfy dinner parties is that the conversation's gotta be good. "Quality control and all."

But only the best of ya will get dessert.

Yup...I cater to all the teacher's pets types out there so only "the best" dinner story comments... wait for it...bated breath et al..... get a "creme de la creme" creme brulee for dessert... and good ol' Jeeves will stamp a golden (but of course, never gauche) small seal of approval on your quality forehead.

Doncha ya just think this "egalitarian" approach really encourages everyone to get along? It really sets up such a nice, mellow mood for the evening.

For dinner guests who dare to complain I simply say: " It's my house and my dinner table so I'll be the judge of what's "the best"....whether you're creme brulee worthy or not... Sorry but them thar the rules."

Nothing like a manufactured sense of liveliness at a soiree I always say....especially one worthy of upping the Orwellian chocolate brulee ration.

Oh well.... onwards and upwards.

Always nice to keeps things light and.... you know, natural.

Expand all for "Best Comments" needed on its own page

Hi David. Nice work.

A small suggested tweak:

As cycling commuter suggested earlier:

What would be a nice feature is an "expand all" within the "best comments" section as well. Now that feature is only available if you prior agree to wade through "all comments".

The "best comments" are already perceived as being good comments (recommended reading, furthering critical debate and so forth) maybe let the viewers have a "expand all comments" view - without the stumbly expand-per-comment requirement of the "best comments" view.

Surely if the "all comments" view can have an "expand all" on their own page - so might the "best comments".

Hope this is possible within the software's architecture.

I do have a small problen with the "best comments" section - it creates latency and thus implicitly stiffles the immediacy of debate - which is very important in my view.

Internet News site are not "Sunday papers"; - the kind of news where one sits in a wingback and takes in pre-processed, or well aged views.

Why not consider to have a flag or icon if the editors feel a comment "noteworthy" reading - but keep all posts on the same thread as the others.

Maybe after a week or so of the articles' first appearance you can have the "best comments" (or whatever good comment tag in use) be auto-filterable in some manner (by aging) for the benefit of "late commers" to the article, who just want the "best of" - while still having the option of reading the whole kaboodle.

Immediacy is key to the Tyee - and all news sites of its kind.
Any libel, slander, personal insult: Just delete it - gone - since you're already stating you're filtering - and everyone "signs" the posting agreement prior doing so.

I don't get the green gradient. I take it to mean "If you're very brief and to the point your comment will look nice. Like this sentence :)

Default mode

I read the article, and as I scrolled to the comments, the default view of comments is the "best" comments, and "all" comments is merely an option.

I beleive that you have made a grave error in censoring "all" comments to the dungeon, and requiring readers to hunt to find out what everyone thinks.

The default should be inclusiveness of opinion, not just the Tyee editors' opinion. Don't they already get the first 1000 words ?

At the very least, your programmers could allow regular readers to adjust their profile to allow a diversity of views, and restrict the spoon feeding of comments to unregistered readers.

I’m a comment newbie with

I’m a comment newbie with a million people behind me;
ready to follow how many ahead of me -and quit.
Evaluation of submissions is why. Everybody is already doing it,
some with frightening viciousness, others with crushing superiority.
Judgment is often passed without even completely reading an entry.
To be enlightened, one must come out of the dark.
Patience is required for this process, people.
If being right is that certain, why is everything this wrong?
Vision and different perspectives may be required for our very existence.
The potential is as staggering as the need.
Readers’ contributions complete the story and give you an edge.
Moderate the entries and establish the flow; do not manipulate the entity.
Black out words deemed inappropriate, derogatory or negative. You could let anyone with the time or stomach click these open!
Your liability black outs should not open.
The Tyee leads the way again. Good Luck. Thank you.

“One cloud is sufficient to eclipse a whole sun.”
-Baltasar Gracian, The Oracle

Best Comments 'Expand All?' I'm confused.

Chris Bouris and Cycling Commuter echo others by asking why Best Comments aren't all automatically expanded.

They are. At least they were designed to be. And look that way on my screen. When I click on the Best Comments thread all of them are fully expanded.

Perhaps you have stumbled upon a strange programming glitch that makes it different on various browsers? Let us know by shooting an email to

Or, if you are instead suggesting we automatically expand just the Best Comments in the Full Comments thread, that's an idea. But we didn't program it that way so I'd have to look into the cost, etc.

I agree, Chris, the Best Comments feature has a lag built in, as they have to be humanly reviewed and selected. But one can always read the comments immediately on the Full Thread.

We certainly are noting and taking into consideration all the good suggestions we are getting. Thanks everyone.

commenting system

well first of all, the green fade has to go.

second of all, there is no reason for expand/collapse to require a page reload. you know my email, ask me - i can hook you up with an instant on screen expand collapse in no time. a simple bit of javascript and css is all it takes. the links-from-the-90s you have now are worse than useless. expand all is the only one i'll ever hit anyway. sorry to be harsh but seriously this is 2007.

i second the call for threading. some people just talk to each other, and it would be great to be able to skim right past them without even opening the thread. the responses to a comment could be hidden in the expand/collapse mechanism.

for spellcheck - get firefox! no point at all to including that in the tyee.

an edit function might be nice, but (much) more complicated than it's worth (not much at all). a spelling mistake or two is not going to end the world people. i especially hate the people who post multiple times only to correct their own spelling mistakes - who are you trying to impress? highly annoying. more importantly let's not give people the opportunity to edit the meaning of their posts.

best comment - haven't looked very hard, but it seems every post gets this by default? and you'll only take it away in limited situations? or else you're being way to generous with it. very few don't receive it. make work project? i for one don't trust the editor, i'd rather hit show all and skim past the ones i know there's no point in reading.

anonymity - technically, no real way to take that away, so no point trying.

"Expand this comment" is annoying for me as well

WHY??? is the only thing that comes to my mind. I just can't see what it is for, did someone decide that if you made it more "hi-tech" by hiding it within more functionalities that we will be more impressed and find the interface "funner" or more attractive to use?

I think the multithread thing will be very useful. Sometimes a few posters dominate, but start their own "side arguments" which deviates from the topic, and yet you don't want to miss the points they contribute to the main discussion, so it can be hard to go through all the acrimonious, unrelated stuff just to find what you want. Having said that, the current system is not too bad, as long as no lengthy spats arise and the system is well moderated I suppose.

(+) Expand this comment

This format is hopeless, when I'm trying to search (CTRL-F) for a specific threader or phrase throughout the article.

COMMENT

Why fix what ain't broke?

Fix the 'expand all' function . . .

. . . and you've got a winner. Or at least a step in the right direction.
The collapsed comment length should be about double the length. I wonder if you could make the column wider to reduce each comment's length -- there's a lot of unused screen real estate.
You might also put brevity in the code of conduct, and maybe a word limit on comment length. The long-winded does not work well at all on-screen.
I do not envy the comment screeners their job, but if they do it well initially the quality of discussion will go up.
Thanks for taking this initiative. I was getting to the point where I'm ignoring the comments section, or skimming it at best.

Aimless

There is a 3000 character default in place now.