A real brave thing for Spector to do. I wonder would he ever call his wife (if married?) a biatch? What about his boss? His daughter?

Do we ever hear males calling each other bastard or kuk succher?

I think it would be more productive to state (if you disagree with, or do not respect the person) to say exactly that: I do not respect your opinion; you are ingnorant of the facts; and so on.

I would also argue that name calling is a form of bullying. The House of Commons and Members of Parliament - setting a wonderful example for impressionable young minds!

According to the Free Online dictionary, the primary meaning of "bitch", when used in a metaphorical sense, is "a woman who is considered spiteful or overbearing". Frankly, it is more slang than offensive, and really doesn't have a lot of punch. If you've never referred to your boss as a "bastard" (or "bitch", as the case may be), Freebear, then you may be out of step with the rest of the human race and are probably offended by words like damn, hell, and shit. What Mr. Spector said was pretty mild and scarcely worthy of comment. My own sample is that all the women in my office grumble angrily about how Belinda (as she styles herself) is a homewrecker, while the men say much, much different things, usually along the lines of how they'd like to get into the sack with that cute blonde.

So let's stop bitching about this issue....(WHOOPS!!)

The fact that NORMAN Spector has said something is a key element in the BIG story of the day. Jeez, this feature gets more lame by the moment - dump it and start again.

Norman Spector used to post here on Tyee, anyone can go back and read his 'words of wisdom' in the archives if one wants to.

I say why bother.

Now he's a news maker?

What are YOU smoking Warnica?

Yep, They call each other that all the time, among other things.

However I am more upset that the terms used to describe Belinda are canine related and that we are do a dis-service to our loyal companions by calling her these names. I doubt very much that Belinda is able to comprehend the qualities of loyalty that dogs have. A quality much admired by Lord Byron who honoured them on his companion’s gravestone.

Somehow I doubt anyone will say the same of Belinda

The nature of the debate is showing the immaturity of the House of Commons, the continued conversation and the fact that this commentator has suddenly become more important than the lives that are being lost half-a-world away, by Canadian boys in Afghanistan or others from Darfur to Iraq is not only not being discussed any more it is actively being ignored by our 'elected' representatives is sad.

The concept of intelligent people governing themselves intelligently is gone...the way of the dogs.

Why doesn't that tired old hack, Spector, call Tie Dommi, whatever his name is, a bastard, for having an affair with Belinda. It's always the woman isn't it. Like Tie was tied down and screaming no, what about my wife. What a sad, old, has been, Spector is. God, we are now having to endure someone trying to create a Clinton/Lewinksy thing here. It figures it would be a conservative AND associated with Mulroney! It was pathetic then and even more so now. Doesn't anyone fuking learn? The dumb and dumber are taking over faster than I would ever have believed. Helped along by twits who labour under some illusion they have something valid to say. Write some truths, Spector. You'd be doing a far greater service than gossiping like some old hag over the back fence. Hang up your shingle. You're done like dinner.

Percy - you are correct only everyone likes to play politics. Do you guys remember a white aid to the black mayor of Washington DC who used the old Norse derived word niggardly (meaning stingy) in 1999 and had to resign when a black colleague overheard and interpreted it as a racial slur. Moreover a woman is more likely in public to get away with using the word bastard than a man bitch UNLESS it is really unpolitic. Still I think most of us secretly admired Carolyn Parrish for calling Americans bastards prior to the invasion of Iraq.

The real element of rank hypocrisy is that Spector brought up the tired old canard that Belinda Stronach was born with a silver spoon in her mouth.

Unlike Peter Mackay: the son of a poor potato farmer who struck out on his own and raised himself into the ranks of the political elite by sheer dint of his own effort ... whose impoverished father obsequiously stepped aside to give Brian Mulroney a threadbare seat in the Commons until the 1984 general election.

Unlike most members of the Commons: the penniless scions of penniless parents with neither the wealth nor the power to help their financially disadvantaged offspring secure a seat in parliament.

The real story is that former CEO Belinda "never worked a day in her life" Stronach is despised by men like Spooky Spector because neither she nor her family were ever part of the political establishment in Ottawa. The same criticisms of "wealth" and "advantage" that these insecure little men level against her could just as easily be applied to many (if not quite all) members of parliament.

It is the same old double standard: a married man acquires a mistress and no one blinks twice ... nudge nudge, wink wink. But a divorced woman sleeps with a married man and she is a cold and treacherous bitch. Twice divorced! Oi vey!

None of this appears to have dawned on anyone in the mainstream media ... who it seems would prefer to keep the issue focussed on objectionable words rather than question whether the accusations against Stronach might not have equal validity if applied to virtually anyone else who trolls the corridors of power in this country.

Happy Halloween! (Set aside those UNICEF pennies for Poor Peter's Pence!)

Not done, Spector, a former senior advisor to Brian Mulroney and ambassador to Israel, added this piece of analysis on the origins of the story:

"Half the Press Gallery now are women and women find this very offensive."

Spector is an egotistical Half Wit that worked for one of the most HATED men in Canadian politics.

Belinda Stronach has bigger cojones than Spector and that's why his gums are flappin.

Plus Spectors POOR RATINGS amongst the intellects that matter(the common folk) he has gotta make mileage some where and why not off the back of a strong personality as BS.

And most know I am no fan of Stronach's.
but GUTLESS GUTTERSNIPES like Spector make my skin crawl.

You can see why he worked for MULRONEY .

Spector's a has-been. If he had any integrity he would write about the lies and liars that abound in the political arena. He's so insecure that he panders to the fools and strokes his ego with the fact that he thinks the 'big guys' like him. No clue that he is just a court jester. I am fed up to back teeth with this kind of hack. No balls to face the challenges that lie ahead for mankind and use his abilities to do good for the world. Why does this always surprise me?

Anyone who appears on the Bill Boring show is a hasbeen. Let's face it she's a poor lil rich girl, pretending to be a politician and will screw anyone to get to the top. it's just business, eh!

I haven't seen Normie on CBC lately, come to think of it. Maybe he's hoping for a call. Anything would be better than sitting around with Boring Bill Good.

I don't know if I buy the poor lil rich girl pretending scenario. Maybe she did/does want to make a difference. She had a prosperous business handed to her and the novelty of running that could have worn off. I don't know. They all seem to ooze with sleeze once they enter the hallowed halls of parliament. Good intentions slide away into the night. I try to remain optimistic. Not an easy thing to do though. Spector was way out of line with the bitch remark. It is beneath contempt.

Let's parse all this rhetoric - the word "bitch" was used to describe Stronach, and there was an uproar. Was there an uproar because the word "bitch" was used, or because it was inaccurate?

I would say that it was the use of the word. If Spector had called her a "self-centred, privileged, ultra-ambitious, homewrecker" then I doubt that there would have been as much of a brouhaha. It's the use of the word "bitch" applied to a woman that's drawn the firestorm.

Why is that? Well, "bitch" is still a pretty offensive term - regardless of the fact of it's used on primetime TV now. It's laden with overtones, assumptions and connotations - which is precisely the reason why Spector used it. He can try and hide behind a dictionary definition (Webster's Neanderthal Version) but it doesn't remove the fact that it's a sexist term used to derogate women and shouldn't be used in a public radio broadcast. At it's best, it's in very poor taste and inappropriate, at it's worst it's hugely sexist.

This thread is interesting because people seem to be arguing that Yes or No, Stronach is or isn't a "bitch" Wrong argument. Shouldn't matter that is she is or isn't - the word simply has no place in political discourse. Scott Brison may be gay - but is it acceptable for pundits to call him a "fag", then justify, but yes, he is. . . fag means gay male and he is. Unacceptable.

These are all terms laden with extra connotations inappropriate for political discourse. And yes, before all the disempowered white males scream persecution, "bastard" is also inappropriate. Carolyn Parrish got into trouble because of the word, NOT the underlying meaning.

I totally DISAGREE.

The matter is small minded gutless wimps taking CHEAP SHOTS.

We are in a POLITICAL ARENA and not a school yard with half witted snotty nosed kids.

Get back to the business of running this country and not slagging people for SUPPOSED INDISCRETIONS.

DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE SHE HUMPED DOMI ???

I totally DISAGREE.

The matter is small minded gutless wimps taking CHEAP SHOTS.

We are in a POLITICAL ARENA and not a school yard with half witted snotty nosed kids.

Get back to the business of running this country and not slagging people for SUPPOSED INDISCRETIONS.

DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE SHE HUMPED DOMI ???

AND WHO IS YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION???

AND WHEN YOU LEAVE THE ROOM ARE YOU PARANOID SOMEONE IS TALKING ABOUT YOU???

Grow a set of cojones instead of picking nits EINSTIEN.

GEEZ...WHUT HAPPENED???

two...two...two posts in one...WOW

double my pleasure and someone elses displeasure.

I've never quite undertood how some women can blame the "other woman" but not the husband, who was the one who took the vows, after all. Why is he not the homewrecker? Is a single man who sleeps with a married woman the homewrecker? I'd wager a guess not, but that the married woman is "a bitch". I have a friend whose father has another family- two children by his mistress. My friend, when she was telling me the story said "I don't blame my father (who is a married man with three children!!) but I blame her because she had the *power*" Okay, so you've painted a picture of a father who is a dumb lout with absolutely zero self-control... that's nice. It's insulting to men really, if you think about it.

Good for you Norman, at least you have the balls to openly say it.

woody? is that another name for stiffy?

Or just a punny misogynist pick for a persona.

U could have used peckerhead as well,but I'm guessing you're saving that for another site you can bash women on without EVIDENCE.

Of course reading your posts over the last year shows me you need very little EVIDENCE to form your opinions.
And kissing SPECTORS ASS like you just did !

Well,that says everything,doesn't it !

Really not caring about Norman Spector... or Belinda Stronach for that matter.

Haraldkann - dude, calm down.

I used the descriptor "self-centred, privileged, ultra-ambitious, homewrecker" as an example of an alternate phrase Spector could have used instead of "bitch".

My point is, whatever Stronach is, she doesn't deserve to be called a "bitch" - read my post again.

AND WHO IS YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION???

We are in a POLITICAL ARENA and not a school yard with half witted snotty nosed kids.

It's pretty clear I can read and do understand the situation.

And much of the population is pissed at the half wits dragging out this incident for personal gain...like that pinhead SPECTOR .

Haraldkann,

Sigh. Guess I'm going to have to write very s-l-o-w-l-y and c-l-e-a-r-l-y to you since you seem to be blinded in your gallantry to protect Stronach.

I said look at my post again - not at the situation which you claim to understand.

It is immaterial whether Stronach did or did not have an affair with Domi, and whose friggin' fault it is for this failed marriage is equally irrelevant.

Your hyper-aggressive defence of Stronach's reputation and your repeated repudiation of the affair is appreciated in some quarters, I'm sure, but aren't you going a little overboard Haraldkann. . . or should I call you by your real name. . . TIE DOMI?!?!?

Please don't beat me up Mr. Domi. I promise not to crowd the crease and to "leave Belinda out of it"

Mr. Spector's sad entry proves that yet another older white male has never grown out of his generation's chauvinism. He, and many like him, simply never grasped the concept that an accurate measure of a person's professional merit is independent of their anatomical body parts. The converse means that one is free to critique Ms. Stronach, or Margaret Thatcher or Martha Stewart. But critique them by the same standards as one would critique Stephen Harper or Tony Blair or indeed Mr. Specter himself. There are no rational grounds to preserve gender specific insults for men or women alone. And the more Mr. Spector protests this advice, the more it appears he suffers from the very misogyny we're trying to eradicate. And this from a man who invokes the horrors of the Shoa (Holocaust) to criticize others who would prey on those less able to defend themselves against the dominant society. Indeed Jewish minorities are persecuted in many countries. As are women. It's wrong, Mr. Spector. Figure it out.

The point is both Norman Spector and Peter MacKay are liars without honor or integrity. MacKay lied to Parliament, a deed worth of dismissal at the very least. They both should be kicked out of their jobs as far as I am concerned.

Colin said:

Right on Colin...I love dogs too! Nevertheless, if he said the “dog” comment, soooooooooooooooooo what, he is an idiot, end of story. He is also a wimp as he should have admitted it. SHE on the other hand, should have risen above it instead of using it as a lever to elevate herself into the public eye once again... What idiots they both are, and I am a gal. She would have showed more class if she would have rolled her eyes and moved on to REAL issues of the day.

They are both embarrassments to themselves... imo.

Peace dude,

-Bear

Quote:
Get back to the business of running this country and not slagging people for SUPPOSED INDISCRETIONS.

And much of the population is pissed at the half wits dragging out this incident for personal gain...like that pinhead SPECTOR .

Sigh. Guess I'm going to have to write very s-l-o-w-l-y and c-l-e-a-r-l-y to you since you seem to be blinded in your gallantry to protect Stronach.

I said look at my post again - not at the situation which you claim to understand.

Klowns like you are a dime a dozen on these sites...PSUEDO INTELLECTUALS bent on teaching the world ...THE VIEW FROM ABOVE THE CLUTTER OF WEARY COMMON FOLK.

seems like you cannot read at all incredulous...

so we can see what a LITTLE MIND YOU HAVE BY YOUR HANDLE .

"PSUEDO INTELLECTUALS,Know it alls"

"The point is both Norman Spector and Peter MacKay are liars without honor or integrity. MacKay lied to Parliament, a deed worth of dismissal at the very least. They both should be kicked out of their jobs as far as I am concerned."

Time for you to leave specor. Your babble is rude, and often off-target.

Reitre now, save us from seeing and reading your embarrasing words. Should I call you a bastard? Not right, grow up, get out, leave.

I did have some empathy for Peter Mackay before his "dog' comment. Now it is eveident that Harper has created a culture of no respect for women. His sneering style is one that reinforces bad male behavour. Peter Mackay just reflected the culture of the current Government. It would be far more appropriate and timely if people were speaking out over the recent cuts by Harper and his Government to programs for women.

haraldkann, Talk about a sour puss.

The only "dog" in all this foolishness is Mackay who appears to have a habit of snuffeling around powerful women like an over eager puppy. First Stronach then Rice. The sad part is he doesn't seem to realize that toadying behaviour doesn't turn most women on. Hence his apparent lack of success.

Of course the the real "dawg" is Stronach, who definitely appears to "get around". Lots of rappers laud themselves for their "dawg"-like behaviour (Snoop-Dogg comes to mind), and men generally get off far more easily for it than women do. It's definitely a double-standard, but I don't think it is quite as pronounced as most people here seem to think. As for Spector, "bitch" is inaccurate. "Slut" is closer to the mark. Neither are appropriate for public discourse, especially when you consider that it is unlikely a man would receive the same treatment. But Spector has succeeded in getting the attention he probably wanted. For a media pundit all press is good press.

Haraldkann - buddy, you got some ISSUES. I'm just having FUN in these posts - try and not take it so PERSONAL. I sure don't.

The reason I ascribed to your OBTUSENESS (which is now clearly evident for what it is) was gallantry trying to protect STRONACH. I clearly over-aimed. Please allow me to rectify this:

Tell me, haraldkann, do you keep a SHRINE to Belinda somewhere in your dark basement in some decrepit house in Surrey? Do you collect trophies? Lots of news clippings, defamed pictures of Bill Clinton - with his eyes cut out and "Stop looking at HER!!" scrawled in crayon next to his face? Does your mother shake her head in worry as you rock back and forth on the floor sucking your thumb everytime Belinda shows-up on TV?

I am no PSUEDO-INTELLECTUAL, but a PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL. Though if that was an intentional misspelling on your part, then bravo Haraldkann - good one! Very clever.

well done norm. thanks for telling it like it is. the best thing about this story is that all the lefty freaks were saying the same thing before the decorative lampshade with the bulb burned out turncoated to the libs.

I was feelin' sorry for poor old Norm, but I see Elliot is on his side - so all's well Normie you retarded twit that used to work for the biggest Canadian criminal to still walk free.

Yeah, because neither MacKay or Domi had *any* choice in the matter, right? They're just stupid men who were confunded by that scarlet woman's sly, evil feminine wiles!

Jeeezus. I'm not sure what's more laughable here...the stereotype that men can't think for themselves when it comes to a relationship, and thus cannot be responsible for anything bad that happens from it; the childishness of all parties involved in this farce; or the "Scarlet Letter" 'tude that people seem to have about Bimbo Stronach.

I still can't believe that people think this whole story is newsworthy.

I think one of the most amusing things about the whole situation is Spector's arrogance in thinking he can justify the remark after the fact to the Globe and Mail, while continuing to dig himself in deeper.

His credibility as an analyst lies in tatters, even as he seeks to justify the comment by saying that it was just 'analysis'. He is now the Tom Cruise of Canadian political pundits.

So, what did Norman Spector say? He called a woman "a bitch". He saw her that way and he said it. It's not a word or term that every male past the age of pre-school hasn't used at least a few times when talking about a female who, for one reason or another, has rubbed him the wrong way. Any guy who says he has not in his life referred to a woman as "a bitch" is lying, and if you find his friends, someone will confirm it.

The only thing that's different in the Spector incident is that he said it in a public forum. Oh, the shock! If it had been a woman in a public forum referring to a man as "a son of a bitch", no matter what status the two occupied, the feigned "outrage" would have been comparable. But there also isn't a woman alive who hasn't either referred to, or called some male "a son of a bitch". Find me one who says she hasn't, give me a list of her friends and I'll prove my point. But so what? If she thinks so, she's entitled to say it. If it offends someone, again..., so what? It's not inciting anything-it's an opinion.

Spector said something that a lot of people don't have the balls to say and don't have the forum in which to say it where it will become a topic for public debate. And it's a debate only because people have been BS'd for so long into believing that if you restrict your comments to what would be acceptable to the speech commandoes of the world, then we would all get along. Sure has worked out well hasn't it? Someone a while back called this suppression "political correctness". Well, that's nothing more than a euphemism for 'cowardice'. PC is more correctly, 'passive conformity'.

For forty five years a guy named George Carlin has been playing to, 'sold out months in advance', audiences all over North America. Two hundred a year! His audiences for the most part are not the foul mouthed degenerates heard at sporting events, bars, and school yards. Rather they are people who want to hear someone say the things (sans four letter words) they themselves would like to be able to say without being set upon by the language police. Forty five years, three generations and no empty seats. Who are all these people?

So, if the CRTC, sponsors, or editors cave in to the shrill cries of the 'offended' then they have lost a bit of their spinal column. And everyone will live happily thereafter. Right?

Bud Clydesdale

Coquitlam, BC

Re Colin's comments, somewhere far above: yes, the comparison to a dog was unfair, and Peter MacKay owes an apology to dogs everywhere for comparing them to the faithless Belinda Stronach.

As for his remark "demeaning all women" this is horseshit (is that unfair to horses, I wonder?); the remark was aimed at Belinda, and no one else - and frankly, could have been wittier. I think Peter should have stood up and said, "look, I was just making a comment about Belinda and me, it had nothing to do with gender issues or women in politics. She was a complete c**t to me and all's fair in love and war" or something to that effect.

So when a woman uses "bastard" or "*******" on a guy, isn't she by the same token demeaning all males? I mean, other than in the usual ways women demean and emasculate men, and in fact have whole magazines devoted to manipulation and armchair spousal analysis. Commercial advertising is full of jokes on dumb, childish, thick-headed males with a host of stereotypes trotted out to get the ladies chuckling (Oh, I used "ladies" - was that demeaning to women, too?), but no one says "boo". But do a similar stereotyping on women, even in comic advertising, and the fit hits the shan.

Double-standards are the norm in political correctness, and hypocrisy concerning female attitudes towards men is built-in to the mindset. They don't run around wearing buttons and putting up posters saying "All Men Are Rapists", as they used to do back in the early '80s, but that perception/bias is in-built into the underlying premises of "deep feminism".

Men are stupid, men can't read maps, men need someone to "keep" or "manage" them, men only think about sex, men only think about sports, etc. etc. This is all stock-in-trade, as are all kinds of negative epithets that few of the lady MPs standing up and complaining about Peter can claim not to have used (if any).

Peter did a human thing; lash out over a bitter love affair. Surely women, who are supposed to be empathic and forgiving, can deal with that. Or not, apparently.

Wow, you guys are pre-George Carlin on the censorship scale, huh? The asterisks were the a-word, of course; just clarifying for the curious.....wish I'd used something juicier now....oh yeah, the ten-letter c-word and the thirteen-letter m-word, those'll do - both common derogatives levelled by women at men, apparently not just at one man but at the whole gender; i.e. by extension of the logic used in condemning Peter's ex-puppy-love blurt-out.

And I'll bet Belinda uses both the m-word and the c-word on a regular basis, although not (as yet) during a sitting of the Commons....

Skookum 1
I think the main slap at women was actually Spector's broad brush (and entirely) erroneous slag (is that permitted) at the women in the Parliamentary press gallery.

First of all he said it was 50% of more women, which is isn't, and second of all, he implied that the only reason the McKay/Stronach story has legs is because of who (women) is covering it.

I think he's out to lunch on both scores. As to his language - I think that's covered by free speech. The real key here is more whether or not Peter McKay is a liar. As the foreign minister of this country I really could care less what he thinks about his former lady friends. I do expect him to step up and tell the truth - and I don't think he has.

As a sex scandal, I think the Pierre Sevigny - Gerda Munsinger affair was a lot more interesting.

This could be used to describe ALL the senior politicians in Canada.......these descriptions are in fact essential traits for Canada's politicians.

I didn't agree with Spector very often, but I had a grudging respect for him. I even thought it was pretty cool when he quoted me in one of his articles. However, anyone that would cowardly call a woman a bitch and then defend it by pulling out the dictionary loses my respect fairly quickly.

Calling her that word is nothing short of a crude, personal attack. To do it on the radio, in a very public arena, is despicable. What kind of message is he sending? Is it now ok for teenagers to call girls at their school "bitches" if they can prove the term applies? Is the standard for political commentary on CKNW now name calling?

Watching Spector walk his dog in silence while a news reporter and camera followed him around was pure theater. Doesn't he have anything to say now? It was like watching Peter in his gum boots all over again.

We now know that Spector believes it is ok to call a woman a bitch in a public forum. He shouldn't be surprised when people now start calling him names. Hey, why shouldn't they? That's what they think.

I agree Chris H. By ignoring the fact that the minister of foreign affairs is a liar and someone who is not willing to be accountable for his own behavior while calling Belinda a bitch and implying that the women in the parliamentary press gallery are nothing more than shrill gossips, Spector has shown his true colours. He's a died-in-the- wool misogynist.

Thank goodness the other member of the eastern intellectual mafia who came to BC during Bill Bennett's reign was a more responsible and respectable and honourable man.

It's too bad that Mark Krasnick died in 1995. I don't believe he'd have indulged in such petty theatricals.

Spector should be ashamed of himself.
I'm not surprised he doesn't post here any more.

Tie Dummy sure as hell can’t be the brightest bolt in the box ,why in hell go with hamburger, when he had steak waiting for him at home, bimbo and Tie, their a match set , like cup and saucer.

"First of all, it's none of his business.

"And secondly, for a certain kind of man, sexy women belong in pornography or in the peeler bar or on the street corner, where their sexual power is in some way mitigated by their exploitation and vulnerability and the fact that we look down on them in society.

"She is a woman who is clearly sexually active and doesn't make apologies for that, and is in the traditional male corridor of power, and some guys just have a problem with that."
(Shari Graydon, media analyst)

- Well put, sister!!

But hey, why quote such an articulate woman when we've got brilliance like Woody's words above-- it's "they're" not "their", DOH-boy.

G West

Yeah, but the media drift is that "she's over there" was somehow a slag at the whole gender, which of course it wasn't. It was those kind of histrionics that are what's out-of-place. Even if he'd called her a dog to her face, it was still a personal insult, and not a gender one. And dogs, as discussed, deserve better comparisons than an ex-lover you have to sit in the same room with all the time. I'm surprised Peter hadn't said anything yet at all, in fact, other than the potato-patch thing.

And while it's obvious he's been evasive on his non-calling her a dog (because he didn't, not directly) and that can be branded a "lie", I don't think it's anywhere near as big a lie as, say, the Tories' promise not to tax income trusts. Or, since he's foreign minister, lying about state secrets. But oh, they're secrets, so they're often lies anyway, or at least anything he could tell us about them would be anyway, right?

Cornering someone into rash denial on a personal matter, then badgering them about being untrustworthy for public office, is an age-old tactic, most famously (for anyone who reads the classics) in the Greek rhetorician Aeschines in his Against Timarchos. You couldn't be a politician if you had been on the receiving and/or paid end of sex in ancient Athens, you see, and according to Aeschines', Timarchos had not only been a boy whore but was a practicing rake and debauche. Juicy stuff, but probably a bag of lies; the trick in the bag is that anyone accused in a suit could not testify in court, so Timarchos could not testify on his own behalf (it's presumed he left town rather than contest the charges...possibly to Corinth, which was known for its parties...).

Skookum1
All valid points. However, in the context of McKay's already blotted copybook I think it's not unreasonable to have expected someone like Spector to have spent at least some of his venom on the man, rather than the woman in this little soap opera. McKay's record is pretty spotty and he's been at this bitter thing with Belinda for a while now. Men kiss and move on all the time - why should it be a problem if women do it too? After all, I thought his new fav’rite ‘gal was Condi.

He (Spector) paints himself as an honest interlocutor (see his website) and check out his comments to the Globe and Mail - and that's not the way I read him. Furthermore, he’s trying to cast himself as representative of ‘all’ men in his comments about Belinda. Pretty demeaning in my view.

I've had a couple of personal confrontations with the man. One over whether or not Al Jazeera should be permitted a place on the Canadian Cable dial and the other over the conclusions of the Israeli commission that looked into Sharon's involvement in the Sabra and Shatilla massacre.

Norman expects everyone to be as impressed with him as he is with himself.

And, I think he has a real problem with what he sees as uppity women. Wish I had kept some of the ad hominem remarks he's leveled at various women journalists over the years.

Personally I have no problem with criticizing either McKay or Stronich - I think neither of them fit my ideal for public service anyway.

There's probably not an 'alpha' female around that hasn't been called a bitch by males or females at some point in her life. It comes with the territory. What's the big deal?

Are you one snert?

Looks like you're gonna have to read a few more books to figure that out. Off you go.

Just seems to me that your complacent attitude is a little cavalier unless you're an alpha female yourself. I thought snerts were sexless.

Are you hitting on me?

Isn’t a snert similar to a snorf?

Actually I'd take either one of them over Harper or Manley, and ditto for the pack of the Grit leadership race.

More fun if both of them, on opposite sides of the House: Like a scene from the outer circles of Dante's [I]Inferno[/]....I think it's the fourth circle, maybe the third, where the panderers and seducers are. Their punishment is to run in two hordes, one the panderers, the other the seducers, in opposite directions around the full circuit of Hell, colliding with the group they meet coming from the other direction....

Most of the politicians wind up in the Inner Circles, though: sodomites and usurers and others in the nasty malebolge, simple heretics in the fiery six circle, on the lip of the pit, imprisoned in open crypts beneath a burning rain...treachery is repaid in the bottom-mest circle of hell, though, ice-cubed in the frozen lake Cocytus, which locks Lucifer himself in as he devours Judas.

But since Hell isn't frozen over anymore....

Now how did I go off on that? Ah, just got up, need more coffee....seriously, between the Boy and She-Ra (She Who Must Be Obeyed), I think either one of them are more palatable as party leaders. Not that Belinda has any coherent ideology (or Peter for that matter) - which IMO indicates she's willing to listen to the public, much more than someone from one of the party cabals would be. And she's no Maggie Thatcher....

NO SH!T...brainiac

Fun at anothers expense! you gotta be sitting in peeler bars with your brain drained of ALL the blood it takes to get yer lil stiffy noticed,you can't have real fun if you don't understand the situation.

Which you clearly don't...

Mackay a dickless wonder slags belinda stronach in the house...THEN LIES like the GUTLESS PUKE HE IS.

Small wonder she dumped this twerp...then a half witted pundit/Spector goes apeshit with the BITCH designation

MEANWHILE THE COUNTRY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHATS ON THE AGENDA.

Then again half wits like INCREDULOUS want to draw out the incident with their AIRY FAIRY BLATHERINGS.

LOVE THAT MUSING!

Anyone ever hear of Thatcher being called a BITCH...hhhmmmmnnnnnnnnnn ?????

Excellent - you're back. The thread was so much the poorer without your enlightened comments and INFLAMMATORY COMMENTS WRITTEN IN CAPS.

By the way, great tactic: use caps to emphasize your points as if writing them bigger will make them more valid. Combined with your repeated insults to me and others about our small members makes me wonder about your own penile inadequacy. . .didn't mommy tell you never to put your wee-wee into the pencil-sharpener?

I was starting to miss you Haraldkann. . . glad to see you're off your meds and that the nice nurses at Riverview have re-instituted your computer privileges.

I'm intrigued at some of the previous posters who have claimed respect (grudging in some cases albeit) of Spector's balls for calling Stronach a bitch on a radio program. WTF?!?!

Many of these posters claim that in today's PC environment, stewards for the unvarnished truth such as Spector, had to overcome the repugnant and restrictive PC agenda.

Now, I ain't that old, but I remember a little thing called manners. Some may call it decorum, others simply good ol' fashioned politeness. But how is it possibly productive for Spector to call one of our elected officials a bitch on a public radio program? We ain't talking about a couple of drunk guys sitting at a bar talking smack. That kind of language - Carlin notwithstanding just has no place in productive political discourse.

Spector used the word intentionally and hurtfully. He clearly doesn't like Stronach - and that's fine. He obviously thinks her of low moral fibre - fine, too. His right to think what he wants - but using that word bitch, well, that's just plain mean, impolite and inappropriate. I won't even bring-up sexist.

All of these delusioned posters who defend the use of the word bitch by Spector, who try and argue away its injurious and insulting - how would you like it if someone called your mother, sister, daughter or wife a bitch? Fightin words, I'd assume - regardless of whether your mother/sister/daughter/wife was or wasn't a bitch.

Yeah, you go Spector. Balls the size of Jupiter. Takes a lot of balls to verbally abuse a woman.

Spector is not interested in the unvarnished truth. He's interested in making up for some obvious inadequacy in his own background, who knows exactly what?

He is a rude, ill-mannered, arrogant and highly elitist man. One look at the self-serving stuff he posts on his own website, appropriately named 'Norman's Spectator' is all one needs to understand his modus operandi.

The short periods of service he seems to have devoted to the several incarnations in his career indicate that he has never captured the modus vivendi of cooperating with others for any extended period of time. Little surprise that he would relish the notoriety his childish statement about two other children engendered.

Yeah, I was being facetious 8). Agree with you about Spector - but guess every village needs an idiot. . .

skookum 1:

Give here 20 years though.......

Geez,me and the wife spent all weekend at the cottage sharpening my pencil...

You seem to know a lot about Riverview there INCREDULOUS,first hand knowledge is it ???

Then again,I wonder about your medications ,Everyone knows they let you guys out of there in the early nineties...YOU HOMESICK ???

so welcome to your new job,INCREDULOUS,the village was wondering who was going to apply for that position.???

Seems you were a shoe in after your first posting!Who would have known???

Well just dropped by for a quickie,now I really gotta get to work.

HOPE THE POLITICIANS FEEL THE SAME WAY.

Spector is a bitch.

Human beings are one of only six species to pass the mirror test — which tests whether an animal recognizes its reflection as an image of itself — along with chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins and possibly pigeons. Human beings under the age of 2 typically fail this test and I suspect Spector and McKay are cut from the same soiled cloth. By any definition, past or present, they represent the worst examples of what it means to be gentlemen - in public or in private life.

Spector's use of the word 'bitch' was wrong and it suggests an inability to make any more insightful observation. Time to retire, Norm.

Belinda has always seemed to me a ladder-climbing opportunist. She was involved behind the scenes to facilitate the merger of the Tories and the Alliance. Then, she promptly ran for the new party's leadership. Then when she did not like the party she helped create, so she bailed, conveniently for a cabinet post.

That the Liberals and Belinda have tried to make so much hay out of McKay's 'dog' comment confirms this is public posturing. McKay should apologize like a normal adult, and life should go on.

Belinda's personal life can be questioned, as it does not say much about one's judgement when one is twice-divorced by age 39. As someone said to me years ago, "for all the talk about Trudeau's intellect, look who he picked for a wife?"

It is also legitimate to ask why women are always seen as the 'homewreckers'. If we men did not spend so much time thinking with our gonads, we might have the sense to say 'no'.

Is it just me, or does Belinda Stronach look like Paris Hilton? Will there be a Belinda video? Can she change parties again and still be elected? We know she goes both ways, but how about taking a run at Jack Layton? Why does everybody hate little rich girls? Life is SO unfair!

And now King Ralph has put his oversized foot in his mouth with his 'joke' about Ms. Stronach and Mr. McKay!

How (ex) statesman like!

Stronach didnt force mckay to call her a dog or spector to call her a bitch. Or klein to imagine and talk about mckays conservative bone in her.
And posters here would do well to acknowelege that.
I would be fired if i called a woman a bitch in the course of my work.
And i work in construction! Why not apply the standards of society to parliament too?
I think the reason that they say these things is good old intimidation. They have a male dominated institution and they want to keep it that way.
Imagine women making the career choice.
Whether it is ndp liberal or conservative, no woman will want to be called a slut or a whore or a dog in the course of her work day.
So, allowing ignorant bullying men to intimidate Stronach means fewer women running for office, for ALL partys. And that suits the conservative old boys just fine!