The B.C. Liberal Litany part 1

The B.C. Liberal Litany

A few years ago, I read a book titled “No Great Mischief” by Alistair MacLeod. It is the story about a family of McDonalds who came to Cape Breton from Scotland. In the book, MacLeod describes the Glencoe Massacre. This occurred because the Chief of the Campbell Clan despised the McDonalds and wanted eliminate them. The English King said that all clans must sign an oath of loyalty and they had to do it within a certain time. The Chief of the McDonalds was unable to complete this task on time due to unforeseen circumstances and the king realized this. The Campbell Chief took advantage of this and he and his men visited the McDonalds. The situation was explained to the Campbells and they were invited to stay the night. The Campbells agreed to stay and during the night they murdered the McDonalds. Scottish custom says that when you are invited into a home, even that of your enemy, you are to be hospitable. The Campbells not only committed murder but they broke this custom. Not all Campbells dislike McDonalds but there was dissention for many years. Today they get along and in some cases they have marry each other. However an evil Campbell gene sometimes rears its ugly head. Living in B.C. is like being a McDonald living in a leaky condo.
Site for the Glencoe Massacre
http://www.fix.law-firm.co.uk/Glencoe.htm

The B.C. Liberal Litany part 2

MacLeod goes on to write about the service of the McDonalds under British General Wolfe. The MacDonalds would go to the battlefield and rescue their fallen brothers. This infuriated Wolfe as he thought they could be killed. He further mused that if they were, it would be “No great Mischief.”
I had these thoughts towards the end of Lent as I thought of the “Litany of the Saints.” This is a long prayer where the priest says “St. John” and the congregation responds “Pray for us.” This is repeated for many saints and it goes on and on. All of these ideas came together into what I call the “Liberal Litany.” In this, Premier Campbell says “Tax Cuts for the rich” and his caucus, fart-catchers and bumboys reply “No great mischief.” And you can see it goes on and on. Here is

“The Liberal Litany.”

Premier Campbell says: Caucus, f*rt-catchers
and braünosers say:

Health care cuts No great mischief
Closing schools No great mischief
Laying off teachers No great mischief
Education cuts No great mischief
Breaking the teachers’ contract No great mischief
Take over the College of Teachers No great mischief
Declaring education an essential service
No great mischief
Break up of B.C. Hydro No great mischief
Privatizing B.C. Hydro No great mischief
Privatizing B.C. Rail No great mischief
Selling the Ferries No great mischief
Closing courthouses No great mischief
Cutting welfare No great mischief

You can see that the list can go on and on. Feel free to add to the list.

The B.C. Liberal Litany 3

The formatting didn't quite work, but it is the Caucus, f*rt-catchers and braünosers say "No great mischief" to Campbell's acts.

Well, with any luck...

CanWest will be gone soon.

media bias

I agree with BC Mary that mainstream media bias is a grave problem in getting out the true story of the BC liberal's dismal failure as economic managers.One way to do this is to blog or to enter a comment on this topic in the comment section accompanying articles in Canwest newspapers. I have seen some accurate and well written comments on the liberal's many economic failures, even there. The second major way is to phone, write or e-mail your local or nearest NDP mla and strongly request and advise that the NDP need an effective attack ad on the liberals pathetic management of the economy, once the gag law is lifted for the May election. Had the NDP done this in the last election, which they lost lost by a mere 5000 votes split over ten ridings, I believe they would have easily won. So good a trump is the economy and its management that it aces all other issues, and it is exactly how and why rightwing governments continue to win elections. Such an ad would be easy to assemlble from this article, and the recent Mark Lee article in The Hook, as well as the comments in my last post. I am all for social justice issues, but they must be coupled with criticism of economic malpractice. When the gag law is lifted we are going to see another flood of nonsense about "the lost decade of the nineties." An NDP attack ad on the same would add the extra few pecent of support the NDP need to win and would have a multiplier effect on their support, even if they used a mere 5% of their budget. Other points for an attack ad are the Vaughn Palmer column of last June which proved that absolutely no increase in manufacturing jobs occurred under the liberals, and I also believe Jim Sinclair cited statistics proving the actual standard of living, in the lower mainland, adjusted for inflation, went down $3000 a year. It will be such a pity if the NDP which seems to be winning on most issues, and which according to leaked liberal internal polls is probably 9% AHEAD of the BC Liberals (Bill Tielemann blog article) lets the mainstream media and Campbell's rightwing supporters and their extensive treasure chest, get away with their ridiculous lies, and the election, yet again. I wonder what the effect on an attack on harper's economic performance would have been in the last federal election, one that mentioned that Harper had given away an 8 billion dollar surplus in tax cuts for the rich, and that his finance minister, Flaherty, had, as Mike Harris' finance minister, left the next government a hidden $5 billion deficit.

Bill Tieleman - New Democrat

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=988599552908585128&postID=8098139951797922906

Coming from a New Democrat, that speaks volumes.

Campbell's gross mismanagement of the economy

What the NDP CAN run on, Luke, as I just said to the point of exhaustion, is Campbell's GROSS MISMANAGEMENT of the economy. Or do you disagree Mr Skywalker that being flat broke after 3 years of record revenues fron high commodity prices and tax revenue from the housing bubble, from record transfer payments from Ottawa, from NOT funding social programs, and from garage sales of crown corporations is good economic management?? The NDP don't have to run on their OWN record on the economy, when they can run on the truth about Gordon Campbell's absolutely dismal record. And of course the NDP, UNLIKE the BC neoliberals have other issues, besides helping the rich leech off the rest of us. Issues like liberal corruption, liberal broken promises, liberal gutting of our court system leading to the current gang warfare in the streets, and so MANY others, like giving away to their friends revenue producing crown corporations like BC Rail and teresen gas. My, my, wouldn't the revenue we used to get from what Campbell gave to his friends come in handy now?? Nice try Luke, but a little hit and run don't you think? But let's hear it from you as to why the BC Liberals have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to show for all of the good luck they had. And then, go your room luke.

Frenchy....

That's just your own hard-core NDP partisanship showing. Yes, the economy is the Number 1 issue in BC. it is a dominating behemoth.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/top_issues.html

And the public has already formed its opinion:

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=4177

That's a whopping 22% margin.

That's a whopping 23% margin.

http://angusreidstrategies.com/uploads/pages/pdfs/2008.11.15_BCPolitics.pdf

Extremely doubtful. The NDP has no credibility on the economy. That's akin to the Liberals running on the NDP's record on welfare and poverty in 2001. Too funny.

In any event, you should give BC'ers more credit. They certainly aren't dumb enough to jump from the frying pan into the fire. :)

Either can.........

Gordon Campbell,neither party can run on the good managers of the economy.....

Gordon Campbell has run the 3 biggest deficits in BC history, and has now added the honour of growing BCs debt to never seen levels,the deficits,added debt to BCs economy will weigh in future generations....

But as for Campbell running as a good fiscal manager,the facts don`t bear that out,in fact the facts point to the BC Liberals from 2001--through 2009 as the biggest deficits and biggest debtor goverment in BC history.

What Bill T was saying is the ballott question on may12th/2009 will be.......

80% of BCers don`t believe Campbell is honest or trustworthy,even people who support the BC Liberals can`t and don`t trust Gordon Campbell!.......

The Ballott question for BCers is....Who wants to vote for a .....

PROVEN LIAR and PROVEN LAWBREAKER, Campbell time and time again has LIED his face off,broke the LAW over and over again....

Every ex-Liberal I talk to states that they will either stay home or vote conservate and some will even vote NDP but I have been told by so many that they can`t and won`t vote .......

for Gordon Campbell a PROVEN LIAR and LAW BREAKER!

tens of billions down the chute

John Calvert in his paper "Sticker Shock" shows how the BCHydro 2006 tender call resulted in 15 billion in contracted levies to Pirate Power over the next 40 years at rates growing from 9 cents a kwh to 12 cents later on. Presumably by the time the election arrives Gordo and gang will have signed away as much as 60 billion with various 2007, 2008, and 2009 contracts, programs and tender calls.

Most of that power will have to be exported as BCHydro doesn't need it, especially in late spring when it spikes up.

So the Pirates get to sell all the power they can produce to BCHydro at 12 cents a kwh for the most part. BCHydro can't say no we don't need it/want it. Never mind that BCHydro can borrow money at quarter the rate and could have had SNC Lavelin or Bechtel built the projects for 3 to 6 cents a kwh.

So in low water or high power demand years instead of importing nuclear power at a few cents a kwh, Hydro must buy Pirate at 12. In high water low demand years it must buy Pirate power at 12 cents and sell it for a few pennies on the US export market.

As Bill Tieleman puts it, we are governed by a greedy bunch of Rubes. Suckers. Chumps. and Hicks, with no business experience signing contracts that a six grade home economics student would think were idiocy in exchange for New York hedge fund financed campaign donations and dreams of lucrative post election consulting contracts and board of directors appointments.These are tens of billions in taxpayers losses folks. Makes the fast ferry fiasco look like a bad day at the race track

The least competent government in BC history.

BC LIBERAL internal POLLS....

The BC Liberals OWN INTERNAL POLLS have them trailing in almost every riding,by some very large margins....

And the NDPs own internal polls confirm these true facts,now if Luke wants to say that the .....

BC Liberal internal polls are wrong,I suggest he take that up with the BC Liberal party headquarters.

I am not surprised at all about the internal polls,I have said it before and I will say it again,Gordon Campbell is throwing the election......

Liquor taxes,hydro increases,Campbell has told all his burnaby MLAs to flock off,all this before the election? LOL...

Campbell`s wish will come through,the voters gave Campbell a huge oppertunity in 2001.....

he had a huge margin of victory,the voters were reluctant to give him another chance in 2005,he won by the skin of his teeth,2000 votes in 7 ridings the NDP would have formed goverment,but the voters gave Campbell another chance......

And Campbell has failed miserably,on every level,health,seniors,big time failures on children,he failed the enviroment,he has brought the pacific salmon to near extinction and.....

Too many issues to mention them all but, the economy is in the worst shape in BCs history,our debt has gone from 32 billion to 53 billion dollars under Campbell,not counting p3s or energy contracts worth billions with American owned and operated companies.....

GORDON CAMPBELL has been a dismal failure on all levels.....

That will be the BALLOT QUESTION

BC Liberals internal polls

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2009/02/bc-liberals-internal-polling-shows-them.html

The Liberals are in free-fall

mustell polls are exceptionally dubious,

luke. Most of us do not believe that a pollster that nearly always varies by around 16% from the other two mainstream pollsters in favor of the liberals, that refuses to document the makeup of those polled -how many women, how many men, what their income is and multiple other factors is to be trusted AT ALL, luke. In fact there are those of us luke, that harbor the unworthy suspicion luke, that a pollster that is dependent on enormous revenue from the BC liberal's best place on earth ads(best place to be a friend of the premier's, presumably) are in ANY way, worthy of any respect, whatsoever, luke. Speaking only for myself, of course luke... I tend to be more interested in informal polls, luke, or in hard cold facts, such as the one that despite enormous revenues from the recent boom in BC's always boom and bust economy...THE BC LIBERALS ARE BROKE. They should have at least 3 billion stashed away from refusing to fund social programs, from garage sales on crown corporations, from the endless barrage of userfees, you know, the $30 a week user fees to make up for the $5 a week tax cut most of us got...But no, luke THE BC LIBERALS ARE BROKE.
Perhaps they gave all the money to their friends and owners, luke, it's hard to tell with the way they gutted the freedom of information act. To show for their efforts however, we do have an unneeded convention center, ($400 million over budget) a overbudget RAV line unsupported by the neccesary ridership, and, last but not least the BC taxpayer is on the hook for $70 billion dollars in hydro projects, which, had we borrowed the money ourselves, we could have done for one third of the cost luke, and have the revenue to pay for schools, hospitals and other worthy projects -like reducing the highest child poverty rate in Canada, rather than the revenue from these projects leaving the country, Luke.

So, if you want to applaud this stellar economic management, go ahead luke, but I fear you will only be hearing thew sound of one hand clapping, if you catch my drift.

Or...

Take the vast and unknown Olympic overuns as another example of BC liberal economic "management..."

p3s

Funny how Luke S in not mentioning the P3's that are going south.
Everyone better get their backs to the wall when the 75 billion in these things start going down the crapper.
With what is going on in the financial world it won't be long.

Even Vaughn Palmer .......

Disagrees with Luke`s spin........Advantage premier Carole James

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=ddd3ef0e-b549-48d4-8bf7-fd6afc73e98c

Michael Smyth knows that Campbell has lost all Burnaby ridings and neighboring ridings

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=f62a4cf4-34f0-440c-9da5-86f499250fba

But what is most......

important is,what do families and parents have to say,after all,it will be parents stuffing the ballot boxes.

http://www2.canada.com/burnabynow/news/story.html?id=abda965e-757c-4bd6-8e92-3f67c9afb990

quarry bay...

Huh??????

Sorry bud, I'm strictly a fact and analytical guy myself.

BTW, both Vaughn Palmer and I are on the same page: ;)

Luke

You wouldn`t know a fact if it came up and bit you in the ASS.

You don`t want to respond to internal Liberal polls.

And I put this to you Luke,if Bill Tieleman and I were wrong about internal BC Liberal polls,you would post the internal polls stating the opposite,but you can`t,won`t,because flattering internal polls don`t exist!

Why don`t you tell the readers about the west Vancouver Liberal MLA whose business partners owns a polling outfit? And what polling outfit would that be? Could it be a rusty musty company?perhaps.

And who has a "working" partnership with Canwest Global? Could it be Ipsos Reid? yes it could be.

My freind Mario Canseco will have some different results that you can take to the bank!
Double or nothing Luke? 20.000.00$ or nothing? may 13th/ put my money where your mouth is?

Ya,you ignore that question,you know and I know that you bet me on the provincial bi-election, and i whacked you 2 to 0 ---and I am giving you a chance to get even,10.000.00$ says the NDP win the provincial election, if I am wrong,were even, if I win, I expect to get paid!

Actually, luke, except perhaps long, long ago

and in a galaxy far, far away, you and Vaughn Palmer are often on very different pages...

In the words of I believe, John Diefenbaker, another conservative like yourself "Polls are for dogs..." Now, in the last provincial election we had what's commonly known as a push poll, from neoliberal pollster Allan Greg, with trick questions, the upshot of which was that the
BC liberals were 17 points ahead of the NDP. But come election day, surprise, surprise the NDP lost the election by less than 5000 votes spread over 10 ridings. So the real purpose of such "polls" was to discourage NDP supporter turnout. Similiarly, EVERY federal election, without exception, we see polls stating that this time, for sure, Stephen Harper is in majority government territory. We all know how that's turned out.

But, I am glad to see that you value Vaughn Palmer's opinion, because in a column written last June, Palmer cited substantial evidence THAT NOT ONE MANUFACTURING JOB HAS BEEN CREATED BY THE BC LIBERALS... no, not one. So naturally, as you profess absolute faith in Mr Palmer, luke, I know you MUST accept my thesis, backed up by the mountain of information I've presented today that the BC liberals are the most dismal economic failures in the history of the province. Good to know that you and I are on the same page, luke...

ading to North of Hope`s litany

German built ferries, no great mischief
lowering minimum wage to $6.00 an hour,
no great nischief (but how mean spirited)
and therein lies a short story: ...a few months back while shopping for computer paper I overheard two young girls, employees of this store talking. The one was telling the other how when she had first got out of school she was working for $6.00 an hour and then after 6 months when she asked for a raise she got fired.
I excused myself, told them that I was interested and asked for whom she had been working. "Wendy`s" she replied.
Our forest minister Pat Bell owns two Wendy`s here in P.G. Nice Guy!

quarry bay...

Alright. Sometimes statements on here are just too bizarre to respond to bite I'll bite.

lol... I have as much access to Liberal internal polls as both you and Tieleman.

Ditto NDP internal polls. If they were favourable to the NDP, the NDP would publicize same. Agreed?

That said, Tieleman posted what is termed "hearsay", not evidence, from what "someone" told him.

In response to Tieleman's blog post, a well-connected Liberal, Jordan Bateman, who IIRC is also president of Rich Coleman's constituency association responded:

http://langleypolitics.com/2009/02/oh-bill.html

Frankly, I prefer Bateman's evidence on the matter.

McIntyre is no longer associated or holds an ownership position in Mustel. You know that.

That said, if you believe that Mustel is tainted, then why do these non-Liberal outfits, among others, still use 'em??? :

1. BCTF - Mustel

http://bctf.ca/uploadedFiles/Advocacy/Campaigns/Worth_speaking_out_for/GoodNewsForTeachers/

2. BC Nurses Union - Mustel

http://www.bcnu.org/whats_new_media/bulletins/2004/10-20.htm

3. Coalition for Public Education - Mustel

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/BC-Politics/2009/02/08/PublicEd/

Because these organizations are aware of Mustel's track record, credibility, and reliability. That's why.

Your same silly argument could also spread overseas to Germany, where out of 6 national polling firms, I have always had a higher degree of trust in Forsa.

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm

Ya know what???? Forsa has Social Democratic Party links. But who cares???

Frenchy...

No... it was 13% and you are referencing a one-trick pony in BC known as Strategic Counsel. They have never polled BC voter preferences either prior or subsequent to that bogus May, 2005 poll.

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/05/16/GlobePollUnethical/

Only two firms have a track record in terms of accuracy and reliability in BC over the past ~15 years and that's both Mustel and Ipsos. In fact, they both generally mirror each others results.

And Mustel's numbers have been virtually "bang-on" in provincial and federal (BC) elections.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/accuracy.php

Study it. Ya might learn something.

PS. Just because ya don't like the results has no bearing on their accuracy.

Those that want Liberals gone

Go to www.BCNDP.ca and click on candidate. Call up your local office and/or go online and fill out the 'volunteer form'.

The www.BCNDP.ca cannot win without you, so become part of the solution, become part of the NDP and help shape the party that is run by us, the people.

subterfuge

Don't let the Liberal spin doctors pull the topic away from Campbell's fudging the books. I think that the books aren't just a little fudgey, I think they have been so cooked that no government will be able to see black ink for a very long time. Please stay on topic all you Liberal supporters. The topic is the Liberals, not some government that was wrongly turned out by these same lying Campbell Liberals and their buddies in the Main Stream Media. These Liberals are liars and thieves and we know that to be true. They have proven it time and again.

Sorry, luke but mustel polls are notorious

for their pro Campbell bias, and you have yet to respond to my point: what in the name of the pluperfect christ is a firm like Mustel which accepts million dollar contracts from the BC liberals for doing best place on earth ads doing in the polling business at all.

Still, in a province where the premier's brother goes on a tv station with a near monopoly to endorse the premier's policies I suppose almost anything can pretend to legitimacy. Moreover, Evie Mustel very nearly ran for the BC "liberals" in the last election, but I suppose she figured out there was more money in doing "best place on earth (to be a friend of the premier)" ads. No darth, er uh...luke...no evidence you can present to me from institutions as corrupt as many of our pollsters can in ANY way move me...or for that matter effect the outcome on May 12, because people are definitely wising up. I'm curious though, luke, now that the BC liberals are such profound LOSERS in everything but polls which deserve to be incinerated for the biased unmonitored, unnaccountable waste of trees that they are, will you be switching your vote to the NDP?? Yes, it's amazing how accurate these polls are -except in the one poll that's real: election day. How about a poll comparing every poll's accuracy TO ACTUAL ELECTION RESULTS! Whoops, better throw those polls to the dogs, who I'm sure will find SOME use for them. And, luke I don't think you're capable of learning anything, because each time, since you first crossed swords with me today, I've had the sensation of dueling with a rapier against a man armed with a paper butter knife -as your second hand arguments, ideas and wit all lamentably lack a cutting edge. Perhaps its time to stop pretending that the implement you're wielding is a light saber, luke...have some toast instead.

SIG...

Alright. If that's the case, let's look at one provincial riding... Maple Ridge-Mission. With the 2005 vote transposed, the NDP would have won the seat by a sliver - 44.5% - 44.1% in 2005.

One would think the two parties would now be on an even keel in that riding. NOT.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/mapleridgenews/news/40251988.html

In the case of Maple Ridge-Mission, which the NDP would have won by a sliver in 2005, it appears that the Liberals have 15 times the number of members that the NDP has in the riding.

It also appears that former 2005 New Democrat voters are also joining that Liberal constituency association.

It wouldn't have anything to do with economic concerns at the public forefront, or would it?

the topic

Luke, the topic is the Liberal's fudging the books, it's not about polls. Let's talk about how the Liberals have been cooking the books?

NOTE: not once has luke responded to a

single argument on this thread proving that the BC liberals are dismal economic failures. Instead, he merely posts polls on which there is no auditting, no oversight and no proof these polls were fairly taken. If I'm wrong tell me who's there when all these so-called unbiased polls are taken. What would you think of an election without people FROM both sides monitoring vote casting? What would you think if ONLY ONE SIDE monitored such polling. Show me the phone numbers, along with the sex, income, the way the person voted last time and the precise area of the province each and every result came from. Luke, and his ilk, don't want a debate, they are'nt capable of it, instead they prefer polls a substitute for debate, for transparency, and ultimately for fairness. Note well Mr skywalker has not responded with a coherent counter argument on this thread ONCE...Instead, he clicks buttons, ands summons up empty predigested pap ...he's as incapable of debate as the premier is of fairness -and anyone who thinks that polls trump debate is as hollow as a toy light saber...

Once honerable polling.....

firms have been corrupted on BC Politics,Mustel is nothing but a cloudy fuzz.
Ipsos reid ever since 2005 have been suspect in the province of BC,WHY?...What happened in 2005.....

could it be that Ipsos Reid partnered up with "Canwest Global?" or should I say Gordon Campbell TV......

Here are a few quotes from the 2005 press release....

"This partnership allows Global`s news teams SPECIAL ACCESS to Ipsos reid`s in house experts"

Read about the partnership here.

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=2838

Isn`t it interesting that the polling outfits connected with the BC Liberals have complete opposite results of HONEST/high integrity/ NUETROL polling outfits.

Why would Angus-reid have the BC NDP up by 5 points,and Angus reid was the most accurate polling firm in the last federal election......

Luke you can talk about the former glory days and once accurate results from Mustel and Ipsos-reid but none of those polling firms have any record in BC since 2005!

And,Luke,you said that Campbell would win both bi-elections,Campbell got whacked!

And Gordon Campbell had a 100 million dollar non-stop ad campaign running since last june/2008. and,Campbell one week before the bi-elections had a province wide,prime time news/press conference on all the BC stations,and a week later got blown out of the water by ......

2 ROOKIE politicians running against 2 of Campbell`s star candidates.

And Jenn Mcginn and Spencer Herbert blew Arther Griffiths and The Cancer clinic adminstrator out of the WATER.

And you want us to believe that Campbell is leading by 16 points--LOL LOL, When pigs fly Luke.

May12,,,The big CLEANSING

How a poll ........

is supposed to be done,4 areas of the province,ages,sex,income,and a whole series of questions.

The result is accurate,only today the spread is 10% points for the NDP

http://www.angus-reid.com/uppdf/2008.11.15_BCPolitics_1.PDF

We Love You Rafe

Keep telling it like it is, Rafe. Your experience and candid assessments are a huge breath of fresh air. Our political and corporate elites have NEVER been so out of touch with the rest of the population. They just keep drinking more of the same coolaide, and repeat the same group think statements about how they wish the world would be. But isn't.

It is a very strange time for Canadians, because in the US much of the last years 8 years fictional world view has been repudiated by Obama's frank statements. Not in Canada (yet). We're still having to live with the neocons who worshipped the Bush regime and mimicked the intellectual falsehoods they propogated. It is really sounding out of date.

Can't wait for the regime change!

Sharing is good....

Relax my freind,everyone knows the books are cooked/corrupt,even Gordon Campbell`s die-hard faithful(25%) know the books are cooked......

Many lies,many cons will be exposed by Premier Carole James,the true scale of Campbell`s crimes to the tax-payer(for generations)will be exposed.

I still suspect that Campbell may still resign rather than be defeated in the riding of Point Grey,he is behind in the internal polls in Point Grey.

Campbell has one last gambit to try,his MLAs are going to spread dribs and drabs of infrastructure money to all the little towns,the 100 million dollars will backfire,rural voters will see that Campbell is spendind 5 times as much on a retractable roof in metro Vancouver......

The voters are too wise to fall for Campbell`s Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde routine.

cheers

Quarry bay

Civics Lesson for Luke Skywalker

Excellent points Quarry bay. Has there EVER been a pollster who's been democratically, openly and accountably auditted and watched during the polling process? How do we know that pollsters don't take several polls which are bound to show variations of at least 10% and then choose the one that best suits their political prefeerence?? Maybe they're all honest as the day is long, but with their ties to the corporate sector, why should we believe them? And now for Mr Skywalker's Civics lesson.

Democracy was founded on DEBATE, not polls which are essentially in their unmonitored state ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE. That means biased hearsay, unchecked reporting, often debased by leading, or misleading questions and statements. I don't believe I ever heard much about Thomas Jefferson using polls. It is highly unlikely he ever went to maple ridge or its ilk and then based his election speeches on someone of extreme partisanship, like a BC LIBERAL CANDIDATE saying that it appeared to them that voters were switching sides. What you quoted luke, is PARTISAN, ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, which is meaningless as your PARTISAN, ALSO ANECDOTAL POLLS. No, luke, DEBATE is what happens when arguments are constructed, and FACTS are presented with order, rhetoric and wit. What you do basically constitutes clicking on links and cutting and pasting, out of your extreme reluctance and fear of dealing with actual facts and arguments, i.e., DEMOCRATIC DEBATE.

But, if you are looking for anecdotal evidence I suggest you check out comment threads accompanying articles in the Province and Sun these days, comment threads which are running at least two to one against the BC Liberals by voter after voter opining that while they were once BC Liberal supporters -NEVER AGAIN. This too is anecdotal evidence, but unlike in your dubious stories, in these conservative and often reactionary newspapers, support for the premier is PROVABLY tanking... this can be proved as facts simply by counting points of view in a PUBLIC, rather than PRIVATE arena. But then your ilk has privatized everything else, so polls are now the neo-liberal way of PRIVATIZING DEBATE.

eloquent, frenchy

"But then your ilk has privatized everything else, so polls are now the neo-liberal way of PRIVATIZING DEBATE."

Wonderful comment and insightful concluding statement, I personally declare you the winner of this debate.

Frenchy.........

I have no doubt that the(Mustel) people dialing the phone numbers reported the imformation accuratly,that is not the issue with Mustel.
The issue with the Mustey poll is this...

Who supplied the list of phone numbers?

Where did the list of phone numbers come from?

Why did Mustel polling do this poll only three weeks after their last BC poll,when they have been coming out every 3 months?

I might have a partial answer--The poll came out/released on a friday,I was listening to CKNW(the cutting ledge)--The show about 20 minutes in when......

Vaughn Palmer cut off a phone-caller and said...."breaking news Bill,a Mustel poll has just been released giving the Liberals a 16 point lead"

First off,breaking news? A poll 3 weeks after the last Mustel poll with virtualy the same results as the last one?

Which brings me to the last Angus reid(NDP up 5 points) poll,it came out on a friday,I was listening to CKNW since 6.00am that day,they never mentioned the poll once,I emailed the news room and asked why they didn`t report it! I emailed them again,then I called the newsroom and asked why it wasn`t being reported?(it was now about 3.00 pm) ..

The newsroom said to me that they had reported the poll on the news,I argued to no avail, the CKNW newwsroom had their marching orders!

Lets just say the last Mustey poll and the release and staging deserved an academy award!

Further on....

That staged breaking news,not only did Vaughn Pamer cut off a caller to do his cating job......

Every half hour on news, the Mustey Poll was the lead item,from 9.30 am on,every half hour it was the lead news item and it was also reported every quater hour when they break for commercials,they have a short snippett called "now in the news" then they break,so the Mustey poll was reported that friday until early evening,approximately 40 times......

And the Angus -reid poll wasn`t mentioned even once,even after I called and emailed...

Yea I called CKNW on this,they know what they are up to,so do the listeners,.....

More propaganda, they have everyday on CKNW a segment that each radio personality does for a half hour segment, its called the "ncomfortable question of the day"

Well last friday the question was "are labour unions still relevant"

Well what a set up for Christie,they might as well called it slam the NDP/socialist agenda question of the day,every caller people telling stories how the unions made them vote NDP or they were fired!

Anyways,listeners weren`t buying it,the poll question of the day was about the uncomfortable question.

The poll question was,are labour unions relevant, john Macolm reports the results after the 6.00 pm news,the results were,...

even after slamming them all day the results were 57% said labour unions ARE RELEVANT!
Won`t CKNW ever learn!

Speaking of comments......

Another BC Liberal going down for the count,Ron Cantelon is done like dinner!

Vaughn Palmer stated last friday on CKNW(cutting ledge)

"If Ron Cantelon loses Nanaimo there is going to be a NDP landslide election victory"
Here is the story

http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=c0d3238-4a97-4fe7-b038-226c9f66c81b

http://cknwam.corusradionetwork.com/emmis/AudioVault.cfm

Cue up febuary 27th 9.00 am, fast forward to 9.22 am listen to the caller and listen to the answers from Vaughn and Keith

here is that link to

The Nanaimo times.......

The ron Cantelon story

http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=c0d3e238-4a97-4fe7-b038-226c9f66c81b

Frenchy...

You guys are all nuts. :D

Mike Harcourt, Dan Miller, Gary Doer et al are just too right-wing for you guys... and they're New Democrats.

That's code for you being on the left-wing ideological fringe. Not too many people in society occupy that space.

That's the same sort of lingua that the World Socialist Web utilizes. lol

http://www.wsws.org/

let's stay on topic

Let's see if we can keep the topic on the Liberals' inability to keep the provinces financial house in order.

Polls and Canwest Media Monopoly

Every election I have observed since turning 18 (many yrs. ago) repeats the same
model. Any party that is centrist or centre-left, eg: federal liberals or B.C
ndp will find itself fighting both the right wing party and the entire media.

With canwest's monopoly this decade it is
more entrenched than ever. Thanks to the
internet, more people every day are finding
truthful examination of how poorly this
government has run our province.

It is so pathetic that no one in our regular press asked Campbell a probing
question regarding the 2010 games year
after year. His first tough query came
in Beijing from China's press. Bill Good
and his obsequios colleagues have lost
any right to consider themselves journalists. They are irrelevant jokes.

Pollsters that earn large chunks of their
revenue from Campbell's gov't and have never shown him or his party in anything
other than favourable public opinion are
not conducting impartial surveys. Mustel
is a joke and has never been close in
reflecting actual public sentiment.

We, the real voter and as citizens worried
about this province's future should flood
newsrooms and comentators with e-mails
demanding they stop the garbage reporting
and wake up to the dire reality we face.

People like luke continue the moronic line that any other party will ruin B.C. He hopes as in the past enough ill-informed voters will drink the koolade,
but he is sounding weaker in his arguments
each week. If he is a conservative (and not
just another hack receiving $ from the libs. or the gov't) then he knows this election should force Campbell to defend
many poor fiscal decisions.

Brg61

Luke is collecting a pay-cheque,Luke knows the game is up,by the time may 1st rolls around this whole Liberal fraud is going to implode,the Liberal MLAs know the election is over, I expect 3 to 4 more to resign before the writ is dropped,especially those whose already have big pensions,Campbell is throwing the election.

Everyday there are more blunders,this election is going to be similar to the 2001 election only it will be the Liberals being blown out of the water! I think Campbell`s liberals will be lucky to win 20 seats.
Gordon Campbell if he runs in point grey will lose that riding,my cousin lives out that way and he tells me he and every neighbor he talks to will be voting either NDP/conservative or green.Everyone is pretty twisted about the golf course,spirit park and possible school closures,no one can trust the word of a liar/over and over again Campbell has broken his word.
Global/Canwest/Corus, it`s just a matter of another month and they will all capitulate to the fact that Campbell is finished.
Like Mccain in the USA/ everyone knew it was over/ Campbell is done like dinner,you will notice Luke didn`t bother with the double or nothing on 10.000.00$ ----

Which proves that Luke doesn`t even believe his own spin,because if Luke really thought the BC Liberals had a 16 point lead he would take the bet,but he won`t,remember with Lukey,it isn`t what he says,it`s what he doesn`t say.

brg61...

I'm a federal Liberal but having a dud like Dion with the idiotic Green Shift that no one understood is a losing proposition.

Carole James is also a dud along the lines of the NDP's Bob Skelly, the Socred's Rita Johnston, and the Liberal's Stephane Dion.

And the BC NDP's 2009 candidate list is a who's who of left-wing labour activists.

Where are the centre-left Mike Harcourts, Dan Millers, and Gary Doers in the BC NDP?

There aren't any.

Mustel was bang-on in the last 3 BC provincial elections... '96, '01, and '05.

As New Democrat Bill Tieleman is fond of saying:

And in BC, Mustel is the most accurate name in politics.

Luke...........

Like I said,Ipsos-reid and Mustel were accurate in the past,in 2005 were off some what,Ipsos=reid starting the downhill path when Canwest global took them over in 2005--Mustey has been manipulated.

And I don`t give a flying fluck about the past,the future starts on may 13th with a new goverment and a new premier.

Your game of running to Doer,or Harcourt or center this or that is crap,the Luke game of disraction,Mustey`s credibilty is going to be shot when they are 30 points out in the election.
Like Sig said,back on topic,for you to be believable Luke,you need to say it`s a fudge it budget,and that is a fact,and I don`t care about last century.

You want to debate,debate, Campbell`s revenue forecasts are bunk,you know-it,everyone knows it,the story isn`t about the 90s,it`s about today 2009.Unless you can admit the forcasts are crap there is no debate,even Liberal supporters like Les Leyne/Palmer/good/Clark know the budget is bunk,so what is there to debate with you,nothing,your telling everyone the barn is black when all can see that the barn is red.
It gets tiresome,you would at least be believable if you said,ya it`s a fudge it budget but the NND had one so who cares,at least that would be honest,give my regards to your DOER posters you have pasted to your walls!

Ya,thought so Lukie/PAB member

Actually luke

Bill Tieleman made that throw away remark about polls ONCE; the constant repetition of the refrain is entirely YOUR responsibility.

Time to get over it and move on.

thanks to sharing is good and to hello to

quarry bay. Thank-you sharing is good. Now I know how Joe Biden felt debating Palin. Quarry Bay, your explanation is more plausible, and certainly some explanations are due for the often astonishing lack of accuracy in polls compared to actual election results. It is not so much that I believe pollsters are cheating in ALL the ways I said. I was rather trying to play devil's advocate to show how offstage, unmonitored and untransparent the polling process generally is, as well as how over-rated and over revered public response to polls tends to be. I have not posted on the internet for awhile and am a trifle rusty... I don't object to anyone on the right or left who understands what debate is pointing out possible flaws in my judgements. However, over tolerated stooges like darth fraser institute oubliette-crawler annoy me intensely. "Luke," as I said is no more interested in debate than the premier is in democracy. His sole talents remain cut and pasting comments from nontransparent, sources and attempting to distract posters from the issue at hand.

Although Campbell's dismal economic performance was the thread topic, I feel the criticisms on the holy cow of pollsters added to the thread and hopefully further diminished Luke's credibility, such tattered rags of it that remain. To make up for the distraction from the thread I will try to post a synthesis of the hook marc lee article, rafe's viewpoints and my own later today on this thread. I still maintain that the NDP badly needs an attack ad on Campbell's dismal performance as an economic manager. THe liberals should have a 3 billion dollar surplus at least. Unbelievably, they're broke and now expect everyone but their friends to pay for their breath-taking incompetence.

Gary Doer not a labour activist? Oh please

To quote from Wiki :

"He studied political science and sociology at the University of Manitoba for one year, but left to become a corrections officer at the Vaughan Street Detention Centre.

Doer became president of the Manitoba Government Employees' Association in 1979, and served in this capacity until 1986.[4] He also held prominent positions with the Manitoba Federation of Labour and the National Union of Provincial Government Employees, served as a director of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, and became a governor of the University of Manitoba.[5] In 1983, he negotiated an agreement with the provincial government of Howard Pawley in which civil servants agreed to delay a wage increase in return for a guarantee of no layoffs or wage rollbacks."

Doer sure sounds like a pro-union Lefty to me.

Facts

But of course Luke has never had a close relationship with facts. Nothing but drivel and spin 24/7

frenchy

You're right, the NDP should attack the Liberals on their supposed strength because its where they are in fact weak. Make a point of how the Liberals benefitted from federal largesse and commodities and yet pissed it all away.

In tandem they should attack the results of Liberal incompetence on the economic file and point out just how much the Liberals have allowed areas of this province's social net to become degraded.

luke's inadaquacies

Funny you should mention the liberals,luke. I was just thinking how Iggy would have been actually telling the truth if he had said: "A coalition, just not neccesarily a coalition with the bloc and the NDP." For the federal libs are right back in their normal mode where yesterday was not soon enough for a taxcut for the rich, but where daycare needs to be studied for 10 years, preferably by an over paid committee chaired by them and their friends. But, had the federal liberals any brains and integrity they would have sued the premier long ago,first for forever associating the liberal brand with George W. Bush clonelike policies and second, for forever destroying the association with the word "liberal" and good economic management.

I was disgusted to read yesterday that Don Bell, perpetual backbencher, had eagerly ran (but lost) to qualify as the liberal candidate for the North Vancouver seat. As Bell's sole mark of distinction was his supposed support for the arts, his willingness to serve Campbell who just gutted the arts budget which has a proven multiplier on funding as an economic stimulus, say, oh, one billion times that of the fraser institute, it neatly enscapsulates both liberal corruption and liberal economic incompetence.

Thanks, frank.

I have always admired your intelligent and even-handed and fair posts.

A poll for Luke

Do you think the Liberals care about the best interests of British Columbians by the way they have thus far governed the province (run the provincial economy)?

Sure. More news that's (nudge, nudge) not news

Fascinating in a bad, bad way is CanWest's diligent boot-licking which continues even on their deathbed. This morning, Times Colonist (Les Leyne) is telling us that the 8,000 pages of confidential government documents are trivial and (nudge, nudge) something to scorn.

Yeah, right.

The Globe and Mail (Mark Hume) says something quite different. Seems that there's a sweat-shop running in Victoria (at taxpayers' expense) 24/7 monitoring radio, TV, and print news for any comments about Basi, Virk, or BC Rail. So that Premier Gamble can "polish his image". Read the story here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090303.BCBASIDOC03/TPStory/?query=mark+hume

But is that legal to set up a government department working as a secret political agent in constant re-election mode?

It might be legal if the dept. is funded by the B.C. Liberal Party. But if it's taxpayers' money? I don't think so.

Never mind. CanWest understands its duty. CanWest steps right up to pronounce this as "trivial". As in, "Nuthin' to see here, folks, just keep movin' along." And I'm pretty darn sure that Les Leyne hasn't even come close to reading all 8,000 pages.

British Columbia deserves a better press. I hear wondrous rumours, too, that we just met get one! If so, I hope they call it SILVER LINING. and that they mean it in a good, good way.

Sure. More news that's (nudge, nudge) not news

Fascinating in a bad, bad way is CanWest's diligent boot-licking which continues even on their deathbed. This morning, Times Colonist (Les Leyne) is telling us that the 8,000 pages of confidential government documents are trivial and (nudge, nudge) something to scorn.

Yeah, right.

The Globe and Mail (Mark Hume) says something quite different. Seems that there's a sweat-shop running in Victoria (at taxpayers' expense) 24/7 monitoring radio, TV, and print news for any comments about Basi, Virk, or BC Rail. So that Premier Gamble can "polish his image". Read the story here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090303.BCBASIDOC03/TPStory/?query=mark+hume

But is that legal to set up a government department working as a secret political agent in constant re-election mode?

It might be legal if the dept. is funded by the B.C. Liberal Party. But if it's taxpayers' money? I don't think so.

Never mind. CanWest understands its duty. CanWest steps right up to pronounce this as "trivial". As in, "Nuthin' to see here, folks, just keep movin' along." And I'm pretty darn sure that Les Leyne hasn't even come close to reading all 8,000 pages.

British Columbia deserves a better press. I hear wondrous rumours, too, that we just met get one! If so, I hope they call it SILVER LINING. and that they mean it in a good, good way.

Hmmmmmmm...

Reading comprehension everybody... reading comprehension.

Gary Doer is from the labour school of Dave Haggard who ran for the BC federal Liberals, NOT the NDP.

To refreshen your memories (so that it will sink in) Gary Doer's government:

1. Permits Manitoba Hydro to engage in IPP's;

2. Permits Manitoba Hydro to build dams for U.S. export power;

3. Is eliminating the corporate capital tax;

4. Reducing corporate taxes;

5. Introducing corporate tax credits;

6. Reducing taxes on high income earners;

If ya like Gary Doer's NDP government then ya must love the BC Liberal government. What's the diff between the two?

Certainly the BC NDP believes that Gary Doer's policies are too right-wing. The current dumbed-down version of the BC NDP would never introduce similar policies.

And the BC NDP is recruiting "left-wing" public sector labour activists as candidates. A real winning strategy. These people are from the political B and C teams. NO Gary Doers, NO Mike Harcourts, NO Dan Millers, not even a Gregor Robertson within their ranks.

Frenchy:

Good for you. Naomi Yamamoto, the best candidate IMHO, won.

If I were you, I would start looking inward at who the NDP is recruiting as they seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel in their recruitment drive.

BTW, everyone here put up their hand who says that they don't like Mustel's poll results.

I see all hands raised. Alrighty, no wonder ya don't like Mustel.

Ergo, I can only come to the conclusion that most posters on here are either social workers or CUPE/ public sector union types. :)

Frenchy:

Using your logic, BC is gonna become even worse financially under the NDP. You can already add on to the annual deficit under the NDP:

1. $600 million in foregone annual revenue from removal of the carbon tax;

2. $1 billion in annual debt from James Bonds - 007 Series;

3. At least another $1 billion in annual lifts to ministries based upon current NDP whining.

Ergo, the BC NDP will promise BC'ers another $2.5 billion+ in annual deficit budgeting. Now that's gonna be a real winner with the electorate. NOT.

The ideological left-wing will never "get it" and never will.

And they will wonder, when they wake up on May 13, 2009 why the new legislature will be a 60 - 25 Liberal majority, with the BC NDP receiving its lowest popular vote since 1969, excluding the 2001 anomaly. ;)

Living the Liberal Secret is Living the Liberal Lie

And Luke Skywalkers says,"If the NDP doesn't run ads with that endorsement, then I sure hope that the Liberals do"!!!!
And this should make you proud about the Liberals for sure as advertising there is no shortage of. Like the BC Housing advertisement where they got this picture of a family they have housed, every 6 ft, on a sky train ramp and every bus shelter and media out there. Whats that all about Luke, its an organization that has grave financial problems as its leaves the sick and dying to the streets but it has mega dollars for bogus advertising? And here is a figure for you Luke as I figure the Liberals spin doctors will find them selfs out on the spin.

BC Debt

Your talking fiction Luke,why don`t you talk about the massive Liberal debt,70 billion in private energy contracts,20 billion in infrastructure debting,.....

Lets talk about Campbell`s massive pay raises for civil servants last summer....

What were his reasons " It`s not easy to retain senior public servants"

"we have a shortage of workers"

"the private sector is scooping up all the talented senior staff"

"We have to keep on par with other provinces"

Well isn`t that interesting, seems the private sector is laying off workers by the thousands.

Seems like wage freeze has been put on all junior public employees.

Seems like goverment workers are now having forced time off and 10% of the employees are going to be laid off?

That means that every reason Campbell gave to justify those massive raises to his freinds is BUNK-BOGUS-LIES

"It is a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

gosh, gee whiz luke, I don't seem to recall

Gary Doer assaulting children to pay for a 25% taxcut for the rich that he forgot to mention until the day after the 2001 election. How many child deaths resulted in Campbell abolishing the position of advocate for children?? At least three that we know of... Do you think maybe that could be one important difference between him and the ethically challenged parasite now calling himself premier? Nope, try as I might I don't recall Mr Doer cancelling braille books for the blind, moving little old ladies around like baggage so his friends could make money off privatizing carehomes etc, etc. The fact that you see no difference between the two men just indicates the abysmal moral slough sluggishly fermenting under what you presume to call your ideals. In my opinion after the liberals are reduced to twenty seats in the next election every unneccesary death resulting from their policies should be counted and every single bc liberal mla should be fined and imprisoned depending on the degree of their culpability. Are you religious, luke? If so, then perhaps recall what Christ about the fate in the next world of those who cause harm to innocent children:"Better for them that they had never lived at all..."

I believe the punishment Christ described was something on the order of being boiled in a pit of ordure for all eternity. God knows, I'm not religious, but for that outcome, I'd probably convert...

Luke Skywalker works the Poles

What kinda shape are you in? Have you ever considered a different type of pole as the figures are'nt doing the job. Maybe a strippers pole as you bump and grind out those numbers for us all to see. And certainly no harm meant Luke Skywalker because we are all part of the same coin just your the other side of it.

Public servants

And how does Jessicca Macdonald handle the put it to the employees

She tell them this, "do you want unpaid time off in the summer,or the fall,or the winter,please check one box"

And then report the story that they have come to a concensus because of how the boxes were A b or c

Read it here

http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/Public+servants+polled+taking+free+time+avoid+wider+layoffs/1346180/story.html

Jessicca MacDonald--I wonder how guilty she feels about her 104.000.00 raise to bring her yearly pay package to 348.000.00 per year plus expenses!

And now she wants the peasents to lose 2 days pay on theit 2 week pay-cheque?

You what this is Luke,another one of those on PURPOSE Campbell BLUNDERS....

Many more to come

Manitoba is like US history for Luke, a void

"Gary Doer is from the labour school of Dave Haggard who ran for the BC federal Liberals, NOT the NDP."

Gary Doer is from the labour wing of the NDP. He did NOT run for the provincial Liberals, he ran for the NDP.

To refreshen your memory (so that it will sink in) Gary Doer's government:

1. Will not allow the privatization of Manitoba Hydro and has put into law that a future gov't wishing to do so will have to allow the people to decide in a referendum.

2. Does not claw back assistance from the federal gov't to people in Manitoba.

3. Keeps Hydro in charge of hydro. Not IPPs.

4. The NDP has created the largest bursary program in the province’s history.

5. Made college tuition fees the lowest in the country.

6. A 60% income tax rebate on tuition fees for students who have graduated from a university, college or apprenticeship program and have chosen to live in Manitoba

7. Apprenticeships are up by seventy-two per cent.

8. The 2007 budget adds $200 to the basic personal exemption, and increases the spousal amount and eligible-dependent amount by 24 per cent to match the basic personal amount.

* A single person earning $40,000 would save $46.
* A senior couple earning $40,000 through private pension income and old age security pension would save $43.
* A family of four with one earner making $60,000 would save $194.
* A family of four with two earners making $100,000 a year would save $127.

9. The province invested more than $14 million in child care to backfill a withdrawal of funds that were expected to come through a program of the former Liberal federal government, which was killed by the federal Conservative government.

10. 2007 Health care spending up 8%.

11. Funding of training for doctors and nurses and reductions in waiting times for hip and knee surgeries.

12. Installation of a new $10-million "non-invasive cancer knife" — the first of its kind in Canada — to treat cancers in all parts of the body.

13. Manitoba Hydro loans for geothermal systems of up to $20,000, and interest rates on such loans would be locked in at 4.9 per cent for the first five years.

14. The 2007 budget introduces a new "green energy manufacturing credit," which provides a 10 per cent credit against the costs a manufacturer incurs to make a system more environmentally friendly.

If ya like Gary Doer's NDP government then ya must love the BC NDP. Carole James is even less left-wing than Gary Doer.

"And the BC NDP is recruiting "left-wing" public sector labour activists as candidates."

Yes, people like ex-union guy Gary Doer.

BC Mary, Les Leyne is a bad joke once

described by the raging grannies as gordon campbell's bumboy, an accurate, if slightly flattering description. Despite this the Times Colonist (God help us all) is actually generally less biased than the Sun, which is still not saying much. I note that the online edition of the Times Colonist today did carry reporting on Gary Collins using his office as a liberal fund raising device and some info about the legislature raid, now stalled for over 5 years by the premier's office... Also Bill Tielemann wrote on the legislature raid in today's 24 Hours...Links should be posted, a process I am not yet clear on...

BC Liberal incompetence

1. Can't balance the budget in their first year or their last.

2. Pissed away the huge windfalls from commodities and the Feds.

3. Child poverty highest in Canada

4. Median incomes have dropped in only two places in Canada, BC and Quebec. And in Quebec's case it was very little.

5. BCers will be paying tolls and fees for decades just to keep doing the same things they've been doing for years such as cross the Fraser.

6. Sold provincial assets for magic beans and in return brought a 2 week party to BC.

Frenchy

click to the story you want to post

in the address box you you will see the link address--It will go something like this

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun etc etc etc etc

write it down,be accurate,it`s case sensitive

then come back to the tyee,give your link you want to post room,parargraph down,give it space

then type in the link address,it will automatically come up in red,of course not every web site allows you to light up links.

I make many errors posting links,if you want to make sure the link is right,type the address in your own address box then click it,it should go to the story if all is correct.

Unions love Doer

"Ottawa (22 Dec. 2005) - The National Union of Public and General Employees (NUPGE) is praising the Manitoba government for taking a strong stance in favour of defending public medicare.

NUPGE president James Clancy has written to Manitoba Health Minister Tim Sale applauding the government's forceful opposition to the establishment of a private MRI clinic (the Maples Surgical Centre) in the province."

and how did that turn out?

"Deal reached to end dispute over private health care in Manitoba
Provided by: The Canadian Press
Written by: STEVE LAMBERT
Dec. 18, 2006

WINNIPEG -Manitoba's brief fling with two-tiered diagnostic health services has come to an end now that a private clinic has agreed to stop allowing patients to buy fast access to its magnetic resonance imaging, or MRI, machine.

The Maples Surgical Centre announced a three-year, $2.3-million contract with the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Monday that will see its surgical services and MRI scanner used for publicly-funded procedures.

In exchange, the centre has agreed to end its year-long practice of allowing patients to bypass several weeks of waiting for medicare-funded MRI scans by paying $695 for a quick, private scan. "

Just the facts ma'am

Former federal NDP leader Audrey McLaughlin, whose leadership bid Doer supported, agrees with that assessment. “I guess if I were to characterize Gary, I would say that he’s a principled pragmatist," McLaughlin says. "Gary came from the union movement and I think he understands negotiation. He understands, of course, as Premier he works for all Manitobans. But he’s never really lost sight of the basic principles about why he got into politics and I think that’s stood him in good stead.”

Ontario Liberals and kids

"Ninety children known to Ontario's child welfare system died in 2007, according to the latest report from the chief coroner's office – a number the province's new child advocate says is shocking and should trouble us all.

Equally disturbing, says Irwin Elman in his first annual report to the Legislature today, is the government's refusal to share detailed information on these deaths with his office.

"These are obviously very critical documents for the understanding of the events leading to the death of the child or youth, and entirely necessary for the work of the Advocacy Office," Elman writes in the report entitled 90 Deaths: Ninety Voices Silenced. "The matter of access to information is one that we will pursue vigorously."

In an interview, Elman, who has worked with youth in the care of children's aid societies in Toronto for more than 20 years, said he had "no idea" so many of these vulnerable children, who were either open cases of the CAS or had died within a year of their files being closed, could perish in a single year in Ontario. Nor did he know that the number of children who have died has been constant since the late 1990s when the Coroner's office began tracking their deaths.

When he asked medical officers of health and colleagues in child welfare, they, too, were surprised by the number and urged him to speak out, Elman said.

It is why the deaths are highlighted on the cover of his 25-page report, he said, with the face of a child whose mouth is covered by a red banner reading "90 deaths, ninety voices silenced.""

http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article/591523

Frenchy...

Methinks you had too much poutine last night. ;)

Well...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/11/26/mba-child-poverty.html

Frenchy, come again????

And what sort of factual and analytical basis draws you to that conclusion?? :)

Alright, I'm posting the current BC political landscape - all 85 seats, give or take a couple, based upon the foregoing:

1. 2005 vote transposition;
2. 2005 election spread of 4%;
3. Riding specific margins and demographics;
4. Current polling trends;
5. NOT whiners on the internet; :)

Now this is gonna be fun. :)

BC Election Outcome - 2009...

Vancouver

Vancouver-Fraserview - Lib
Vancouver-Hastings - NDP
Vancouver-Kensington - NDP
Vancouver-Kingsway - NDP
Vancouver-Mount Pleasant - NDP
Vancouver-Fairview - Lib
Vancouver-False Creek - Lib
Vancouver-Langara - Lib
Vancouver-Point Grey - Lib
Vancouver-Quilchena - Lib
Vancouver-West End - NDP

Total Vancouver:

Lib - 6
NDP - 5

Vancouver Island:

Esquimalt-Royal Roads - NDP
Juan de Fuca - NDP
Oak Bay-Gordon Head - Lib
Saanich North and the Islands - Lib
Saanich South - Lib
Victoria-Beacon Hill - NDP
Victoria-Swan Lake - NDP
Alberni-Pacific Rim - NDP
Comox Valley - Lib
Cowichan Valley - NDP
Nanaimo - Lib
Nanaimo-North Cowichan - NDP
North Island - Lib
Parksville-Qualicum - Lib
Powell River-Sunshine Coast - NDP

Total Vancouver Island:

Lib - 7
NDP - 8

Lower Mainland

Burnaby-Deer Lake - Lib
Burnaby-Edmonds - NDP
Burnaby-Lougheed - Lib
Burnaby North - Lib
New Westminster - NDP

North Vancouver-Lonsdale - Lib
North Vancouver-Seymour - Lib
West Vancouver-Capilano - Lib
West Vancouver-Sea to Sky - Lib

Delta North - NDP
Delta South - Lib
Richmond Centre - Lib
Richmond East - Lib
Richmond-Steveston - Lib

Surrey-Cloverdale - Lib
Surrey-Fleetwood - Lib
Surrey-Green Timbers - NDP
Surrey-Newton - NDP
Surrey-Panorama - Lib
Surrey-Tynehead - Lib
Surrey-Whalley - NDP
Surrey-White Rock - Lib

Coquitlam-Burke Mountain - Lib
Coquitlam-Maillardville - Lib
Port Coquitlam - NDP
Port Moody-Coquitlam - Lib

Abbotsford-Mission - Lib
Abbotsford South - Lib
Abbotsford West - Lib
Chilliwack - Lib
Chilliwack-Hope - Lib
Fort Langley-Aldergrove - Lib
Langley - Lib
Maple Ridge-Mission - Lib
Maple Ridge-Pitt Meadows - Lib

Total Lower Mainland:

Lib - 28
NDP - 7

Interior

Boundary-Similkameen - Lib
Kelowna-Lake Country - Lib
Kelowna-Mission - Lib
Penticton - Lib
Shuswap - Lib
Vernon-Monashee - Lib
Westside-Kelowna - Lib

Cariboo-Chilcotin - Lib
Cariboo North - Lib
Fraser-Nicola - NDP
Kamloops-North Thompson - Lib
Kamloops-South Thompson - Lib

Columbia River-Revelstoke - NDP
Kootenay East - Lib
Kootenay West - NDP
Nelson-Creston - NDP

Nechako Lakes - Lib
North Coast - NDP
Peace River North - Lib
Peace River South - Lib
Prince George-Mackenzie - Lib
Prince George-Valemount - Lib
Skeena - Lib
Stikine - Lib

Total Interior:

Lib - 19
NDP - 5

BC Total:

Lib - 60
NDP - 25

Ya wanna double or nothing LUKE?

Your so far off it isn`t worth rebuttal.

I will just point out 2 glaring/obvious mistakes that any moron can spot,except you Luke

Burnaby--All 4 ridings will be NDP

Delta--Ndp will retain and Vicki huntington will win as independent in the other

BY the way,powell river sunshine coast isn`t on Vancouver island and the Liberals will be luckt to win even 1 island riding.

You posted that list of dribble for conflict,and I see you have given Fairveiw back to the Liberals,pretty funny since Campbell just got whacked there!

Maple ridge,lol lol--I have personal connections to that riding,go into any cafe or bar in Maple ridge and start talking up the Liberals and your likely to get beat up.lol

I guess you figure people have forgotten about the upper pitt river IPP/I assure you,it`s still a hot topic in maple ridge.

quarry bay...

Mmmmmmm NOPE. Liberals won by up to a 6% margin in 2005, with the province-wide vote spread at 4%. The NDP also has drawn crappy candidates such as Mondee Redman (failed BCA candidate) and Jaynie Clark (labour activist). Certainly not appealing to the swing voter, notwithstanding current polling trends.

Delta South - Liberal or proto Liberal, what's the diff? The local NDP chair is stating that Vicki is too right-wing in the Delta Optimist.

Vancouver Fairview - 25% turnout in by-election while 65% in general election. The NDP's MLA is an oddball... too left-wing for the demographics compared to the former BC Medical Association head for the Libs. Gary Collins old riding.

Maple Ridge - New 6-lane Golden Ears Crossing and 8-lane Pitt River Bridge. And just compare the Liberal and NDP constituency associations in Maple Ridge as I posted above:

Speaks volumes.

Heres a Little Secret For Your Luke Skywalker

It doesn't matter what is said as once the Public has Lost Trust in its Government its safe to say the Liberals have lost no doubt. And no amount of bumps and grinds in your figures can change that but you sure know how to work those numbers, but then so does Campbell's Liberals.

morechatter...

You keep forgetting about the flip side of the coin - Carole James. Her negatives have risen dramatically since 2005 and there is not much confidence by the swing middle of the road voter with her.

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=4177

HA HA...

Richard Lee won by 20 votes,he is the laughing stock of Burnaby,Nuraney could offer cash and still not get elected,lol

I don`t care about any sign-up,maple ridge has grown by thousands,mostly working class that hate Campbell.

I don`t care what the turnout was in the bi-election,you can exstrapolate the same results from 25% turnout or the usual 60% turnout.

Were those voters not motivated by Campbell`s 9 point plan he announced on prime-time on all the news channels,15 uninterupted minutes,and that non-stop advertising campaign,lol

With your phoney theory,that means if Mustel phoned 5000 people their poll would 5 times more accurate,lol

To think the Liberals will win against any island riding incumbents,thats rich!

And in case you think John Les is popular,lol, how naive to think the people will vote for a corrupt politician that had to step down from his position as top cop,lol
Campbell will lose more votes from cancelling the albion ferry than he will gain by goughing with golden ears bridge tolls,clearly you have no idea what the people in maple ridge care about!lol

You have Farnsworth losing his riding,too much,Ian Black will be slaughtered.

The NDP canidate REDMAN in burnaby has won everything she`s run for,and she`s beautiful, lol, Richard LEE / fungus,useless fungus.

MAN are you going to look the fool,I won`t embarass you anymore Luke,I am getting a side-ache from laughing so much!

Gordon Campbell.....

80% of the people of BC say that Gordon Campbell is not HONEST or TRUSTWORTHY

http://www.angus-reid.com/uppdf/2008.11.15_BCPolitics_1.pdf

Michael Smyth`s column.....

StoneWally doesn`t answer questions,but that best line in this column was Wally Oppapp`s response to question in the legislature testreday,the lines speaks volumes...

Oppall stated " We usualy follow the law "

Read the story yourselves....

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story?id=ffe0f853-0052-4889-adds-38a1249b8117

quarry bay...

Have some reading comprehension dude. :

NOPE. He keeps Port Coquitlam.

NOPE. She lost in 2005. And for a BCA'er to lose in Burnaby is a joke.

Two of 'em.

North Island's Travena who won by a slim 3% in '05. She's a British granola bar eater from Quadra Island. The Lib's candidate, OTOH, has much better credentials from what I've seen.

Nanaimo's kranky Krog. Heavily Liberal North Nanaimo (which has seen large population growth since '05) has been partioned into the riding which would have seen him win by a slim 3% in '05.

Tight '05 races.

And with current polling trends, they're outta there.

The Michael Smyth column

messed up the link,I try again

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story?id=ffe0853-0052-4889-add5-38a1249b8117

I messed up the link again...

3 times the charm....

The Michael Smyth story......

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=ffe0f853-0052-4889-add5-38a1249b8117

Meet the beautiful Mondee Redman...

Read her flawless record,her credentials,and see what she looks like,and how well she is liked in Burnaby,ignore Luke`s spin,one read and you will see that she is a lock,especialy after the prison FIASCO.......

http://www.canada.com/burnabynow/news/story.html?id=badf48a8-1af7-403e-9b17-be8840c9ac03

Your right Luke......

With current polling trends they will be outta there as MLAs, only to be promoted as BC cabinet ministers in the NDP goverment,lol

Luke,you seem to think that Campbell has gotten more popular in the last 4 years,haaa.
The ferry increases will kill any slim hope of the Liberals gaining or retaining any seats on Vancouver island...

Perhaps you forgot about the next BC ferries rate increase, schedualled for APRIL 1st/2009----

Just in time to outrage already outraged island residents!
But of course,with the thousands and thousands of layoffs on Vancouver island(do to Campbell forestry practices)They won`t be able to afford ferry fares therefor may be unaware of the rate increases!

quarry bay...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

That said, Redman was an elected BCA schoool trustee in 2002 and lost in 2005 finishing 3 places out of contention.

For that to happen in BCA Burnaby is a bit of a joke.

Perhaps Burnaby voters know something you don't?

http://www.city.burnaby.bc.ca/cityhall/elections/previouselections/election2005.html

It doesn't matter anyway, since overall provincial voting trends impact riding specific results.

quarry bay...

Correct... and as Vaughn Palmer also rightly states from my above post:

WOW!! Luke, have you checked out the

Bill Tielemann article just added to the front page of the Tyee, or are you too busy packing your bags for a midnight flight to Brazil?? Now tell us how this latest proof positive that the premier cheated on the sale of a billion dollar taxpayer asset isn't going to affect the results on May 12...Guess the gag law's going to be way less effective now. And, luke comparing Doer's record on child povery to that of Campbell's, who sneered at the warnings of every advocate for children in the province who stated again and again Campbell's cuts would put the most vulnerable children at risk is beyond sick even for a human stain like yourself.

Thank you kindly, Quarry Bay,

I'm saving this page and I'll try and get on to the trick. Keep up the excellent work, and we'll beat these bastards like a drum...

Frenchy...

You're a real piece of work.

And with what I'm assuming is the general mindset of people within the NDP, you wonder why you will be left in the political dust-pan. ;)

Some can dish it out

But they're not so good at taking it.

Still phoning in your responses I see luke.

I've been away for more than a week and reviewing your contributions over that time I see nothing much has changed - how come?

Hmmmmmmmm....

Hmmmmmmm.... NOPE. Typing right here, right now.

Always enjoy your comedic relief. :)

And, R/man

On another subject - schools and the architects who design them - perhaps you're unaware that certain architectural firms have been sued and, in one case at least, have done all they can do to obfuscate the fact that they provided an inferior product in their public schools work for the province.

Your artistic nature appears to be blinding you to the facts of the matter.

I think you'll find that some 400 out of the 700 schools built in BC from 1985 until 2000 were 'leaky' - the suggestion that this has more to do with the NDP - which is YOUR thesis, is nonsense.

The builders and the architects ARE THE PROBLEM.