Why Welfare Time Limits Never Flew
Not just activists but ministry insiders fought policy, documents show.
BC Libs aimed to cut welfare rolls 30 per cent. Photo Elaine Briere.
When the government of British Columbia stated in fall of 2001 that it intended to force people off welfare after a certain amount of time, it was announcing changes that were unprecedented in Canada.
Changes that never happened.
Before the time limits could take effect in B.C., in early 2004, the provincial government announced regulatory amendments that effectively ended the experiment.
So who was responsible for the reversal? Whose opposing voice was heard loudest? How did a policy launched with such government fanfare end up scuttled so quickly?
Our search for answers took us through more than 1000 pages of internal government documents obtained through a freedom of information (FOI) request as well as numerous public documents and media reports, and resulted in a report titled The Rise and Fall of Welfare Time Limits in British Columbia, published last month.
The story that emerges offers insight into the politics of policy-making, and some key players in the drama may surprise.
Setting a time limit to purge rolls
In January 2002, the recently elected Liberal government announced a broad program of regressive welfare measures whose goal was to cut the income assistance budget and caseload by 30 per cent. Under the new rules, welfare was to be limited to 24 months within a 60-month period (or two out of five years). Single recipients and couples without children would be denied benefits altogether for the remainder of the 60-month period, while recipients with children would have their benefits reduced by between $100 and $200 per month.
While simple in concept, the rule was complex in practice. The ministry had to not only track the different classes of individuals who were subject to or exempt from time limits, they also had to track the months during which recipients ordinarily subject to time limits would be exempt, for reasons such as a temporary inability to work. The legislation creating time-limited welfare was made effective April 1, 2002. Thus, the first recipients subject to time limits would have their benefits cut off in April of 2004.
The first opposition to time limits arose amongst groups concerned for people in poverty, including front-line community organizations, anti-poverty groups, people in poverty themselves, progressive policy analysts and academics and public interest lawyers. These groups voiced their opposition when the government first made public its intention to legislate time limits, and also organized against time limits in the spring of 2002 when time limits were translated from a policy proposal into legislation. However, these efforts led to little public attention or support.
Resistance within ministry
The first effective opposition to time limited welfare arose after the legislation had taken effect and, interestingly, originated within the ministry charged with implementing time limits. While the civil-society organizations were motivated by concern for the well-being of those in poverty facing time limits, the motivations of ministry staff were more complex.
The internal documents obtained through the FOI request reveal that ministry staff identified and brought to the attention of their leadership that time limits would apply to recipients who could not be expected to find or maintain employment. Time limits would deny benefits to those who in the ministry's own assessment should receive assistance, and therefore were contrary to the mandate of the ministry.
Ministry staff also alerted their leaders to the fact that the government could face "negative public reaction" when time limits took effect. As a result of this opposition to time limits within the ministry, in the spring of 2003 the government began to adopt numerous exemptions to time limits for several classes of recipients.
The goal of ministry staff was not to challenge time limits in principle, but to exempt from their application recipients who in their view could not support themselves in paid work.
Activism bears fruit
Meanwhile, by the summer of 2003, the groups opposed to time limits from the outset were successful in bringing time-limited welfare to the attention of mainstream society. The number of recipients facing time-limit sanctions was unknown, but leaked government documents indicated that it could be upwards of 19,000 people.
By the fall of 2003, opposition to time limits was manifested in resolutions passed by municipal councils, including Vancouver and Victoria city councils, resolutions of school boards, and statements from various faith communities.
Earlier the B.C. Association of Social Workers had issued a statement opposing the time-limits legislation, and the opposition NDP and unions also spoke against time limits to welfare.
The motivations of these groups were likely diverse, but the public record indicates that a primary concern of the groups representing mainstream society was the prospect of a dramatic increase in the number of homeless people in April 2004, with all the community and social problems that would ensue.
Politics hot to manage
In the fall of 2003, internal documents reveal, there was also a significant shift in regard to time limits within the government. The focus shifted from ministry staff concerned with the mandate of the ministry to the politics of managing an issue on which the government was facing significant and increasing public opposition.
At this stage, the debate galvanized around the question of the number of recipients facing time limits. The government refused to answer this question. This secrecy led to the media itself becoming a force of pressure upon the government, as the credibility of the government crumbled on its refusal to answer simple questions that were clearly in the public interest.
Government back pedals
On Feb. 6, 2004, the government capitulated and introduced a 25th exemption to time limits. It exempted recipients who were complying with their employment plans, effectively making the policy redundant, as it was already the case that people found to be non-compliant with their employment plans could be cut-off.
The result was that, according to ministry projections, the number of recipients facing time limit sanctions in 2004 and 2005 would fall dramatically from 6,777 to 339. In fact, information obtained through the FOI request indicates that the actual number affected in this time period was 31.
It was a reluctant capitulation, not motivated by humanitarian concern for people in poverty, but rather by pure political expediency.
The downfall of welfare time limits is noteworthy because it is one of the very few successes in defeating the regressive welfare reforms that have been implemented in Canada over the past decade.
It appears that this success is primarily attributable to the pressure exerted by mainstream society through its representatives such municipal councils, and that the primary motivation was the perceived harm to communities that would result from a large increase in the number of people who are homeless.
However, the success of this mainstream opposition depended in part on the organizing and work of smaller groups involved in anti-poverty work. While the opposition from these groups was loosely organized, it was effective in providing accurate and timely information and analysis, which articulated the concerns of mainstream organizations. These smaller groups were acting as a catalyst to bring divergent groups such as city councils, school boards and faith communities together to voice their shared opposition to time limits to welfare.
Rolls slashed through other means
In retrospect, the failure of the implementation of time-limited welfare did not significantly shift the Liberal government's punitive welfare reform agenda. The government's target of a 30 per cent reduction in the welfare budget and caseloads was achieved through other methods, particularly the new rule that required two years of financial independence in order to be eligible for welfare, and a new required wait of three weeks before a person could apply for benefits. In this sense, the resistance to welfare time-limits was only a limited and partial victory.
However, the government's capitulation on time limits provides a compelling rationale to reconsider and rescind the requirements for two years of financial independence and the three-week wait. These eligibility requirements, in a manner similar to time limits, make income assistance benefits conditional on arbitrary rules and time periods. They should be rescinded by the government for the same reason that time limits were rejected, which is that they have imposed tremendous hardship on citizens through the denial of assistance to those in need and have contributed to the current crisis of homelessness.
Related Tyee stories:
- A Welfare 'Savings' Boomerang
Campbell's cuts ended up costing BC taxpayers billions, studies suggest. - 'Welfare to Work' Didn't Work
BC Libs sat on own report showing no real gains. - Facebook Used by Officials to Spy on Welfare Clients
BC officers cruise social sites for fraud evidence. - How BC Trimmed 107,000 People from Welfare Rolls
Some got jobs. Red tape, death likely knocked out far more.
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- Skating into 2012, More Resolutions
42
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alive
3 years ago
govern by opinion polls
It was a reluctant capitulation, not motivated by humanitarian concern for people in poverty, but rather by pure political expediency.
no1important
3 years ago
Exactly why we need a better
Exactly why we need a better way to distribute wealth in this country more fairly.
Guys like El Gordo do not have a clue what it is to be like being poor or struggling.
To few people in this country have too much and that needs to change. We are all equals and should share the wealth equally.
mass nationalization, sharing the profits from oil to forestry and everything in between is what is needed.
Even the feds should be sending us all $122 cheques from the wireless sale as the money belongs to the people and not tax breaks, grants and what not for large corporations (which many like Bell, telus, Syncrude, Canfor etc should be broken up and nationalized).
I am sick of a few suits in the boardroom dictating how i run my life and I am not alone either.
Look at the US and you will see how capitalism has been a huge failure.
We need Venezuela type of socialism here where the people not big corporations are the governments priority.
Budd Campbell
3 years ago
WHO IN THE MINISTRY SPOKE AGAINST THIS POLICY? WHO FOR IT?
This article is very disappointing. It promises to tell all based on Ministry documentation.
But it doesn't name those in the Ministry who spoke against this policy, nor those who were in favour of it. Did the opposition to this apprach come only from front-line staff, or were policy experts also involved in saying in won't wash? Was it a case of front-line people warning of trouble, and supposed policy experts arguing for a bold new social experiment?
Do any of the officials on either side have actual names?
snert
3 years ago
Hugo Chavez
I am sick of a few suits in the boardroom dictating how i run my life and I am not alone either.
So you'd rather have Hugo running your life than "El Gordo". Great choice.
Hughes
3 years ago
Oil can or stuffed shirt?
You would think this right wing autocrat would learn from his mistakes, but here he goes again stripping support from a very vulnerable group of BC citizens based on the arbitrary number of 70. Campbell’s latest loathsome exploit to deny services to those with an IQ of 70 or less upon turning 19 is just as morally bankrupt and reprehensible as the previously failed social experiment to cut support to the needy citizens of BC.
I’m left wondering if Campbell best suits the role of the Scarecrow “If [he] only had a brain?”or the Tin Man “If [he] only had a heart?" in The Wizard of Oz.
alive
3 years ago
Gord the puppet
Hughes
I would think that Gordo is the puppet, that dances on a string ----operated by his big business buddies.
It takes no brain or heart, just a greedy disposition!
Perry
3 years ago
No brain, no heart, no courage.
Why not all three, including the Lion without courage? No brain, no heart, no courage.
Campbell and his cronies do not have the courage to try living for a week, let alone a month or a year, with a housing allowance of a mere $375/month (for both welfare recipients and persons with disabilities.) It is not possible to do in today's market, no matter where you live in B.C., so people either live homeless, or in sub-standard housing, or use a large portion of their support allowance for housing, thus depriving themselves of food and other essentials.
The more I think of it, the more I'm inclined to think these politicians and their policy advisors are more like the The Flatheads - a race of humans living in the land of Oz who carry their brains in cans. Only, our B.C. Flatheads have holes in their cans.
ThePosse
3 years ago
Get it straight !
The media, The Tyee, everyone keeps talking about welfare as is if it's solely for people who aren't working.
Never forget the fact. NEVER FORGET THE FACT! ; people with disabilities are on welfare and they are being targeted the hardest.
We read the stories like the one above and picture it's bad for the unemployable, try having a disability and being exposed to Campbell's scumbag politics.
They tried to kick off the most Hitleresque campaign of total elimination by reducing the benefits to lower IQ individuals.
Just how bad are Tyee readers? Why can't they see that Campbell's policies directly kill people.
Imagine this the Liberals are trying to kick people off welfare and into the streets for people who aren't as smart as the rest of them. People who have IQ's of 73, 73 and 78 and who can't find employment will now be sleeping on your front lawn.
BTW ...how many people caught Rich Coleman thinking he was immune from the camera's eye at his home. He thinks "I can do whatever I want and no one can touch me at home or anywhere".....LOL
You can see his belligerent attitude towards the reporter the CTV cameraman ...like his body language said "I am above scrutiny" . EDITED FOR LEGAL CONCERNS -- TYEE EDITOR
Dungeness_Crab
3 years ago
Snert
"So you'd rather have Hugo running your life than "El Gordo". Great choice."
I think so, actually. Given a choice between Chavez, who nationalizes oil companies and provides food and education to his citizens, and El Gordo (whose deadly machinations are plain for all to see) then yeah. I'll go with Hugo every time.
If you have a third option in mind, now's the time to say.
ThePosse
3 years ago
Dungeness Crab and Snert
Where is the relation to the article you are supposed to be commenting on Crab and Snert?
EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS. PLEASE REVIEW TYEE COMMENTING RULES AND REFRAIN FROM INSULTING OTHER COMMENTERS. WE WELCOME ARGUMENTS STRONGLY MADE, BUT WE ARE STRIVING TO KEEP OUR COMMENT FORUM CIVIL AND WELCOMING TO A RANGE OF PARTICIPANTS. -- TYEE MODERATOR
At a news conference held Friday in Vancouver, the Raise the Rates coalition released an open letter to the Premier to be printed in the Vancouver Province on Monday. Sixty eight prominent community leaders and/or organizations including David Suzuki and Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan, are listed in the ad, but many more would not fit on the page and were faxed tothe Premier with the letter Friday morning. "In its 2007 budget the BCGovernment has a rare opportunity to show decisive leadership in acting onthe deep poverty and inequality in our province," Graham Riches, Director of the UBC School of Social Work, said at the news conference today.
The open letter calls on the Campbell government to raise both the shelter and support portions of welfare rates by at least 50 percent, end the arbitrary barriers that keep people in need from accessing welfare, and increase the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour and end the $6 an hour training wage. "Homelessness, binning, panhandling and suffering by people who are poor is completely unnecessary and immoral," said Jean Swanson of Raise the Rates. "The government could raise welfare rates and end the arbitrary barriers to getting on welfare and pay for it with only a fraction of their budget surplus." "There is a complete moral gap between the government and the rest of the people," said BC Federation of Labour president, Jim Sinclair. "There's been no increase in basic welfare for 13 years while CEO salaries increased 240 percent."
Sherman Chan, of the Working Group on Poverty, said that immigrants who have worked thousands of hours can end up working at the $6 an hour training wage simply because they need a job. Andrea Ottem, a registered dietitian, called for an increase in welfare rates so that all of us "have enough money to access safe and nutritious food."
The government should stop punishing poor children and families with low welfare rates and wages, Adrienne Montani of First Call, BC Child and Youth Advocacy Coalition said, noting that half of young families under age 25 are poor.
Contact:
Jean Swanson: 604 729-2380 or 604 298-1614; Sherman Chan, 604 254-9626, local 230; Adrienne Montani, 604 875-2000, local 6928; Ken Buchanan, 604 646-5345, Andrea Ottem, 604 738-3481. Or check out www.raisetherates.org
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
So What's the NDP's Official Position???
ThePosse:
If the NDP is not on side (and I haven't seen any evidence to that effect), what's the use???
G West
3 years ago
What are you talking about luke?
Don't you ever read anything but Campbell's crap?
It took me 2 minutes to find this....
http://bcndp.ca/upload/20070629104127_CaringGovernment.pdf
ThePosse
3 years ago
...and the Unions too?
I see many union spokesmen talking up the plight of their membership and union workers but I have yet to see a single one of them speak for the disabled in this province.
The unions act as if disabled people on welfare don't even exist in their world. Maybe the unions don't see the buzzards circling above their rose-colored world and maybe, just maybe that's why they don't get the sympathy anymore from the general public.
Maybe if the unions really had taken the moral high-ground, without monetary compensation, without some payoff, then maybe the rest of BC would support them. But as it stands not one of the dozens of unions in BC has taken up the plight of those on welfare or disability.
But ooohhh..if one of their membership ends up disabled and on welfare they cry foul.
That's not the way the world works. If the unions in this province had really respected all the hard working folks in this province they would start sticking up for those less fortunate, instead of only thinking of themeselves ALL THE TIME.
The unions have considerable resources at their disposal, both in the PR department and moneywise yet they don't throw a dime at helping the public that are disabled or those on welfare.
When the unions join the fight for those who are on welfare and have no voice or those that are disabled and pushed around more than any union, then maybe they will get more support for their strikes.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Hmmmmm....
G West:
That's called political bafflegab. Only gullible or doctrinarie folk would believe that stuff. lol
Sheesh, it's akin to the NDP's "Axe the Tax" campaign, yet the NDP's "Climate Action Framework" states therein at page 5:
That thingy is gonna be required to be priced out before May, 2009. Look forward the "cost to consumers" vis-a-vis the carbon tax.
Hypocracy, n'est pas?
Now back to the increase in welfare rates.
You have now confirmed that the NDP's official position is to increase welfare rates by at least 50% to make 'em the highest in Canada.??!!
That's certainly a golden nugget. ;)
Manitoba New Democrat Gary Doer won't even tread into that area!
Budd Campbell
3 years ago
TOTAL BS POSSEE
ThePosse
"I see many union spokesmen talking up the plight of their membership and union workers but I have yet to see a single one of them speak for the disabled in this province."
EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS. PLEASE MAKE YOUR POINTS WITHOUT ATTACKING THE PERSONAL CHARACTER OF ANOTHER POSTER. -- TYEE MODERATOR
Unions are involved every day in the workplace pressuring employers to meet their duty to accommodate workers with illnesses and disabilities. You're just making this up, and it's obvious what your real agenda is. It's not the unemployed, and it's not the disable. It's right wing politics, pure and simple.
G West
3 years ago
NO
The Campbell party is in power - the NDP is in opposition. There is a difference - you implied the opposition doesn't have a position on this question.
It does. To suggest it doesn't is either bafflegab or a refusal to engage with reality. The NDP policy is clearly spelled out, I'll post it for you:
• Restore pensions for disabled workers, which the Campbell government stripped away in 2003.
• End the annual review of income assistance for people with disabilities.
• Repeal the two-year eligibility limit for income assistance imposed by the Campbell government in 2002.
• Allow income assistance recipients to retain a portion of earnings from employment and a portion of court-awarded maintenance payments.
• Increase support payments by 20 per cent for income assistance recipients facing persistent multiple barriers to employment.
Now there is a real possibility that, by the time the election rolls around next spring, the Campbell government will have run the province so completely into the ground with its concentration on incurring long-term debt and obligations for capital cost projects combined with a complete dereliction in meeting its responsibilities to keep up with program spending that the new government will have to borrow to begin to make up for the Campbell neglect - but that's another question.
One thing I think we can be sure of, and that is that the arrogance and insensitivity of Campbell's bunch will increase; their inability to actually understand why helping their small circle of business friends has made them, in the eyes of the majority of British Columbians, the most corrupt and in humane government this province has had in the last 100 years.
Of that there is no doubt. So, spin away, it's too late to start paying service to the truth at this stage of the game, apparently.
G West
3 years ago
errata
In the second last paragraph, that should be, of course, ...the most corrupt and inhumane government this province has had in the last 100 years...
ThePosse
3 years ago
This Bud is NOT for you all.
"Total BS Posse and you know it. Unions are involved every day in the workplace pressuring employers to meet their duty to accommodate workers with illnesses and disabilities."
Yeah, the ones who are union members. You missed my point entirely and the point being the unions only talk up the plight of other union workers, regardless of what shape they are in.
There is a whole 'nother world out there and the streets are filled with them. Unemployable and marginalized but they aren't union workers.
It would be a total departure and a breath of fresh air if one of the unions took up the cause of those who don't have a voice.
Could you imagine the respect they would have then?
The BC Coalition of People with Disabilities used to be a force to be reckoned with but now they stand silent a lot of the time.They have no media campaigns that I am aware of and they no longer draw attention to the plight of the disabled who are on welfare.
Something has happend to the BCCPD. Could be a topic for a Tyee writer?
The unions, who claim they stand on the high-ground, have not come out condeming the Campbell's welfare policies.
Just to prove you are the one BSing "Bud Campbell" show me (from above) the union spokepeople here -- "Sixty eight prominent community leaders and/or organizations including David Suzuki and Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan, are listed in the ad, but many more would not fit on the page and were faxed tothe Premier with the letter Friday morning"
You are full of it Bud.
Budd Campbell
3 years ago
POSSEE: THIS IS JUST A POLITICAL GAME FOR YOU
ThePosse1
"Yeah, the ones who are union members. You missed my point entirely and the point being the unions only talk up the plight of other union workers, regardless of what shape they are in.
There is a whole 'nother world out there and the streets are filled with them. Unemployable and marginalized but they aren't union workers."
Unions have as their main function representing their members. Most unions reach well beyond that and take up causes, such as poverty, that reach well beyond their membership. I think you know that. And as I am sure you're also aware, when unions do make representations or spend staff time and financial resources in other, broader campaigns they are criticized by right wingers like yourself for wasting their member's money and becoming too political.
This is just a political game for you, Possee, nothing more.
ThePosse
3 years ago
budnick
EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS.
POSSE, BUD CAMPBELL, PLEASE STOP WITH THE PERSONAL ATTACKS. THEY AREN'T WELCOME IN THIS FORUM. -- TYEE MODERATOR
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Hmmm...
G West:
[EDITED. -MODERATOR.]
BC is in the second best fiscal shape financially, after Alberta, of all the Canadian provinces.
To re-iterate, the credit rating agencies continue to provide their highest ratings for BC, Moody's (Aaa), Standard & Poors (AAA), and DBRS (AA High).
Moody's recent annual report on BC:
"Prudent budgetary practices, which include conservative revenue estimates and annual forecast allowances to cushion against unforeseen developments, have generated positive fiscal outcomes in excess ofbudgetary targets, while allowing the government to increase spending on priority areas", says Moody's Senior Vice-President David Rubinoff, lead analyst for British Columbia and author of the report.
While pressures for increased spending have posed challenges for the province's fiscal plan, these challenges have been met with sustained discipline that, if continued, will ensure that targets are met or exceeded.
Net direct and guaranteed debt-to-revenue fell to 67.2% at March 31st 2007 from 105.5% recorded three years earlier. Over the same time frame, net direct and guaranteed debt-to-GDP declined to 13.8% from 20.2%.
As for BC program spending, Health is a good example.
In fiscal year ending 2001:
$9.3 billion;
In the current fiscal year:
$14.9 billion;
That's a 60.2% increase in annual spending since 2001.
Compare the growth in health care spending to the growth in BC's population.
2001: 4,055,195
2008: 4,413,973
~9%...
So a 60.2% increase in the health care budget with only ~ a 9% increase in population growth.
And that's a complete dereliction in keeping up with program spending?? lol
More like your NDP math. ;)
G West
3 years ago
Budget increases for capital costs
For which Campbell's friends in the construction and road building industry are very happy.
In terms of health care outcomes, long-term care beds, educational results and municipal debt things are not going well - program spending and avoidance of court ordered obligations (check out the recent OIC change to avoid the consequences of the Fahlman case for example).
The credit rating agencies were still rating enron highly just before it collapsed.
Like the rock slide at Porteau Cove, Campbell's shortcuts and increases in the long term debt, not to mention the abuse of public bodies like ICBC, are going to catch up to him and to all British Columbians.
By the way, what's the good word on public opinion about the Campbell Tax?
snert
3 years ago
ThePosse
I read the comment.
Yeah, I'm a typical BCer, alright. Sick and tired of watching good money thrown after bad into the black hole of poverty remediation.
Do you contradict yourself often?
Budd Campbell
3 years ago
THE TYEE MODERATOR: Where is this sensitve person now???
Possee, your statements to the effect that unions do nothing to represent the economic interests of anyone other than their own members is simply not true. Their primary object is to represent their members, but they do take up causes beyond those of their rank and file.
Your continued statements to the contrary may be considered "an opinion" by some people, but not by me. EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS.
POSSE, BUD CAMPBELL, PLEASE STOP WITH THE PERSONAL ATTACKS. THEY AREN'T WELCOME IN THIS FORUM. -- TYEE MODERATOR
Budd Campbell
3 years ago
NDP MATH OR LIBERAL MATH?
Luke Skywalker
Net direct and guaranteed debt-to-revenue fell to 67.2% at March 31st 2007 from 105.5% recorded three years earlier. Over the same time frame, net direct and guaranteed debt-to-GDP declined to 13.8%
from 20.2%.
Luke, please note that these comparisons are to a period "three years earlier", that is, to 2004. Can you recall which party formed the Govt of BC in 2004?
More like your NDP math. ;)
In other comparisons, you use 2001 as your base year, the year the government changed hands. So why quote a document that makes comparisons on other measures to 2004?
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Calculus Perhaps? :)
Budd Campbell:
See your point. 2001 was the base year for a response to "complete dereliction in keeping up with program spending".
The other was quoted from Moody's latest annual BC report viv-a-vis credit ratings. In any event, second best provincially in Canada is nothin' to sneeze at in 2008.
lynn
3 years ago
Bullies Inc.
The CampBull government like all governments of little character and great inhumanity consistently prove they cowardly operate on the basis of what they can get away with.
As this article notes the nasty time limits were replaced by equally odious eligibility requirements that still need addressing.....but good on the small human rights groups and anti-poverty activists that spoke up against the welfare time limits...
and off-topic.... but bravo just the same to those speaking up in defense of the seniors who without being given any warning (either to themselves or to their families) are being "transferred" out of their Vancouver Island senior residence where they have resided for years.
ThePosse
3 years ago
Scum
"The CampBull government like all governments of little character and great inhumanity consistently prove they cowardly operate on the basis of what they can get away with."
Kicking people in the teeth whose IQ's are higher than 72, 73, 75 - 80 is a prime example.
That was there plan last week. Probaby re-test them, if they are a couple points (3 or 4) higher than 70... WHAM! Kicked off disability.
To raise the rates and get everyones
social safety net back on it's feet here in BC there needs to be about $600 to $700 mil invested.
The media, Canwest and CTV all seem to forget the fact they are getting their Olympics, they are getting their Whistler Highway, their new bridges and stadium dome all on the backs of the disabled.
The $700 mil that welfare needs is being put into projects the disabled and the majority of the people in BC will never use.
Campbell is tearing down hospitals, closing schools and attacking the poor with his policies all the while people who are healthy and able bodied stand around with their thumbs up ....
Since the people of BC have let the disabled and unemployable be the greese for Campbell's machine they deserve no better than what they are getting now.
ted...
3 years ago
to my "Union-Bashing-Buddies" ...!
take a look any Union-Gold-Plated
injured-worker program....?
and NOW compare it to the MLA's
"injured-worker" program...!
--------------------------------
Unlike the WCB program,
who's injured-worker's injuries are
adjudicated by doctor who
has NO PRIVET PRACTICE !
MLA's claims are ACCEPTED AUTO-MATIC-ALLY
NO QUESTIONS ARE ASKED...!
------ In My Case ------
Despite the Fact I had the best,
specialist's in the province
working on my industrial accident ,,,
The "Pathologist" hired from Ireland,
(who fled under a cloak of suspicion
that HIS INCOMPETANCE led to the death's of thousand's of people),
decided my doctor's were lying ...!
-- further he stated ,
that MY SPECIALIST'S didn't know
what he was talking about ...!
--- Dear Buddy who supports Gordon Cambell ---
why don't you have a look @ what life is like ,
for people who are NOT YOU !
read the WCB's legislation ,
and then compare it to the MLA's
injured worker's program
Notice the BIG-DIFFERANCE ...?
----- ted...
after being kicked off WCB ,
and on to welfare for the disabled
I continue to live,
and praise the effort's of a total stranger ,,,
who stopped me form killing myself...!
AND, I also praise the effort's of
people like Bruce Wallace, Seth-K, Tim Richards , and all the people
who expose the lies we live with ...!
------ Lastly -----------
Claude Richmond , (ex-welfare Minister)
retiring to his 4-to-1 pension plan ...?
(we contrbute $4.oo for every dollar he putt's into it)
It was "Claude-Richmond" who said that with our over 4-billion dollar "plus" , Budget-Surplus
doubling the welfare-rate
would cost $750-million.
"that is TOO MUCH MONEY TO SPEND " he says...!
yet ,
take the MLA - Pay - Raise,
their 4 to 1 pension-plan ?
their generous compensation plan ?
and the FACT their pention is INDEX-ED
to inflation ,,, ?????
and the fact
that income is based on THEIR HIGHEST RATE OF INCOME THAT THEY'VE EVER EARNED ?
;{-
makes me wounder ( buddy )
why you are supporting them...?
----- Union's ...? ------
at least they STAND - UP for the people who pay them...!
we on welfare have no-body...!
we have no voice .
------- Like I say Buddy --------
walk a mile in my shoe's ...!
Notice HOW PIAN-FULL it is to sit, stand. reach, grab , and flex a muscle ?
it fricken hurts doesn't it buddy !
and ya , and I'm supposed to find a job...?
who in their right-mind would hire
a person, who is in so much pain ?
good stuff,
thanks , buddy ...!
( just kill me now )
ok...?
because , kissing the dictator's Butt ,
gives you chapped lip's ,,,
and makes the whole world smell like an ass ...!
ted...
ThePosse
3 years ago
WCB leads to welfare
Many disabled workers on welfare in BC who had been facing time limits had previously been deemed "employable" by WCB or had injuries that were time sensitive; they needed time to heal.
But this whole time period issue raised in the article exposes how treatable injuries turn into lifetime disabilities due to Campbell's policy of tossing everyone off of welfare.
The only thing stopping Gordon Campbell from firing tasers at these people are the frontline workers at the welfare offices.
If Campbell had it his way he would taser all of them for not being slaves, like the RCMP, mindless slaves obeying every Campbell policy without question and with total servitude to Campbell. That is why Campbell phoned in his support to the RCMP in the Robert Dziekanski case.
Welfare workers see people everyday who Gordon Campbell has tried to liquidate.
Olga and Gordon's plan; the Liberal government of BC promotes the hiring of Liberal friendly doctors who have failed in their private practices and will sell their tainted opinions for pennies.
WCB hires these tainted doctors, insurance companies hire these tainted doctors and the province's mental health care and provincial health care departments hire these tainted doctors.
Let's stick to the above article though;
"At this stage, the debate galvanized around the question of the number of recipients facing time limits. The government refused to answer this question. This secrecy led to the media itself becoming a force of pressure upon the government, as the credibility of the government crumbled on its refusal to answer simple questions that were clearly in the public interest."
BC doctors will give their diagnosis on patients that will, with full knowledge of Campbell's office, sway any monetary decisions in favor of Olga and Gordon Campbell.
Watch this video and ask yourself, "With Canada's natural wealth and resources why is this happening to Canadians?"
Click on the Bill McLeod video
http://tinyurl.com/6n4v3n
Arguing time limits on welfare is simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
zalm
3 years ago
Tyee moderator
I'm really surprised at you. This is the kind of thing that is both libellous and does nothing to forward debate. I think you need to take a close look at a few of the rants here and stop concentrating on the political differences of opinion so much. This opinion, so obviously lacking any kind of medical education or judgement is the kind of crap doesn't belong any any board.
Let's give this a re-think, shall we?
ThePosse
3 years ago
Moderator
Tainted fruit, tainted food, tainted air, tainted moderators, tainted editors tainted scents etc.
If you feel such a strong need to protect WCB, protect insurance companies and protect doctors why don't you become one instead of ranting against your readers and posters who are on the front lines trying to improve conditions.
You have no idea what you are ranting on about other than the fact you are attacking Tyee readers.
Do your research first before you start pointing libel fingers. Start here :
TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS IN PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED We, the undersigned residents of Canada, draw the attention of the House to the following:
THAT systemic misconduct by Workers Compensation Boards and Appeals Commissions across Canada relate to specific sections of the Criminal Code of Canada and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms such as (but not limited to) discrimination, harassment, intimidation, fabrication of evidence, fraudulent misrepresentation, fraudulent concealment, omission of duty, misappropriation of money held under direction, criminal negligence, extortion, disobeying an order of the court, disregarding presumption of innocence and subjecting injured workers to cruel and unusual treatment;
http://www.ciws.ca/petitionhome.htm
I was given an outlandish and wildly ridiculous diagnosis that implied I had been enganging in a physical activity I was nowhere near or had anything to do with. Off course this doctors practice failed as his patients left disgusted with his inability to diagnose even the simpliest complaints or injuries.
My first clue should have been he always let out a very loud "Cured!" as his patients left his examination room.Who hired him after he failed to build a private practice?
He is not the only one.The Tyee moderator obviously feels very strongly about protecting doctors, WCB and insurance companies.
Make sure you read that website above carefully or maybe try emailing me and asking me for info about who my doctors were or my claim file number. Ask me how my MLA or MP is handling my claim or how my complaint is going against the doctor who mistreated me but that now works for..?
Ask me about how Olga Ilich handled my complaint, claim file and how she dealt with the doctors who knew they misdiagnosed me.
Ask me about how Gordon Campbell and George Abbott dealt with my misdiagnosis and who they tried to have me see after the doctors misdiagnosed me.
Rather than making wild accustions try taking a journalistic perspective. Does the ThePosse have a claim file? Does ThePosse have letters from the Ombudsman? Does the ThePosse have letters from College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia? Does the ThePosse have letters from Fraser Health? Does the ThePosse have letters from his MLA?
Yes to all the above.
Sure you have the ability to start censoring my writing but look at the front page of the Georgia Straight this week and ask whose writing triggered that article.
ThePosse
3 years ago
OOps
oops
lol
Looked like "Tyee Moderator" was the poster.
My apologies to the real moderator. Thanks for standing by me this far.
Puts my last post in a whole new light, what that light is will be up to the readers I guess.
morechatter
3 years ago
BC House and Social Services
I know of a case where a women who gets here shot from mental health and then they send her right back to the street. She finally gets a place with BC Housing no thanks to them and what do they do to the women who is heavily medicated and almost not there well they say to her we are going to take your food money because we gave you $75 to live on the streets and you spent that on the streets. So we are taking it out of your food money and giving it to BC Housing there is your $20 don't forget to get your shot next week. Take care and don't let the bed bug bite.
They all do its there job to beat the poor down but do they have to do it so well and all they get is $20 hour to exploit the sick and infirm.
morechatter
3 years ago
Ands that the real irony?
We have people in power who heavily discriminate against the people who are often immediately adversely affected by governments decisions. I believe it was what got the Liberals in their feeling of superiority. Which is said to make u inferior. The number of disabled on a disability or children for that matter those are the people who are left to starve as the support given is not enough to survive as its not even enough to rent a place in most cases. Now What? Die. Starve. Cry. What?
morechatter
3 years ago
And your right about the WCB
Lots of disabled workers I know as helped someone with their case actually set precedence but despite winning they soon enough came up with some reason to deny benefits leaving another left to rot with little way out. Lawyers well then it becomes between you and your lawyers and years and years and tears and tears and suicide for some. Its how they have made it impossible so you just go away. This way they give you less and you life expectancy has just been drastically lowered on social services with no money to live and the abuse and stress. See they have a plan no wasting money on injured British Columbians they are useless unless you got some scam where you are giving some company millions of dollars for nothing but Richmonds gone. Employment Services for the unemployable? Stupid of whatever.
morechatter
3 years ago
I guess its just as Stupid?
As BC Housing and Social Services as it will be a cold day in hell before this group ensures it clients are safe and out of the cold with their injuries and illnesses. I am positive they would rather see them dead but then its just an opinion. Or is it?
morechatter
3 years ago
More Irony?
Which Kinda answers itself Longterm Disabled Workers get on Longterm disability for their injuries after meeting all the requirements of someone who will never work again but yet same injury apparently doesn't exist with WCB and told they can get right on back to work. And you shake your head and you do the Liberal crap dance and shake it all about and hope it lands back in their face. Try it!
morechatter
3 years ago
I ran a Clinic
and had lots of doctors who were accountable to me as in contract but BC's doctors are one of a kind as they refuse to help anyone who needs verification. Actually had one doctor cowerer when ambulance driver started giving doctors third degree for calling taxi on guy who could not stand up beause of head injury. They don't want anything messing with their paycheck especially the BC Liberals they have away of pushing their agenda on anyone who is a recipient of government money. Leave the poor and ailing to their lot. And what do I think of Doctors well not that much but boy do I have some stories to tell. But of course not.
morechatter
3 years ago
I meant ambulance
but make no mistake they were giving everybody heck saying this was no taxi service and take the bus next time. And this poor fellow was so out of because of his injury and the doctor was saying well he can't stand what else could I do? Pathetic.
WEASER
3 years ago
I ran a poverty group when
I ran a poverty group when this government first came in. It was the start of the worst attack on people that could possibly happen. I see so many people in my community that on disability whose quality of life has totally deteriorated. This government attacked the most vulnerable in our society and continues to do so. It has cut programs to help the disabled. It has given only a $50.00 raise to disability incomes leaving the shelter portion at $375 including utilities. I live in the north. That barely covers utilities let alone shelter. People do not ask for their disablities but some disabilities are invisible, like mental illness, so everyone was saying people are cheating, well they are not. People committed suicide when gordo brought in his 25 page review for people on disability. It was scary. I see so many people who need to be on disability but can't get on it because it is ridiculous what you need to qualify. As a result homelessness has grown in leaps and bounds, but never fear gordo has the answer. He will just put all the money at the teriary end of things, forget putting in primary and secondary care, lock them all up and throw away the key. We couldn't possibly do anything at the preventive stage. What I see on Global newshour,when they put people on with mental illnesses, is a government that has failed to treat people like human beings. We treat our animals better than we treat our own. It was all predicted the way it would go if they continued on the scheme. Well, now we can pay 40-50 thousand a year to keep one person homeless. When you are homeless you don't count in the unemployment stats. My community didn't need a shelter ten years ago and now it can't keep up with the need. And for all of you who say the tyee is left winged and biased, tell me this, where else can you post your comments freely and see how other people think. I can't even post a comment in the Province newspaper. Here I can read stories from all side and listen to what others say and make up my own mind. Most of all though I see and talk to the people that have been most affected and I burn with rage that we allow this to happen in our so called sophisticated society. Human rights were flushed down the toilet by this government.
WEASER
3 years ago
posse
Hey Posse, I hear you loud and clear. I know so many people who have been misdiagnosed but until it happens to you many will criticize. We never know however, when it can happen to us. One day maybe Campbell will have someone wiping his backside and they may not have compassion. Like they say what comes around goes around.