Tax and spend > the Gordo way

What has happened is that BC's great 'tax and spend' premier has to hide his RAV/Canada Line mega project costs.

RAV is the Premier's great P-3 (Ponsie scheme?) philosopher's stone and will do anything to make it look successful. He already has Bill Boring and the Asper press on his side, shilling for the now $2.5 billion (almost $4 billion when one adds debt serving) metro subway. This doesn't include TransLink's payments to the concessionaire operating RAV.

The guru's at TransLink knew this and incorporated the 'Parking stall tax' or RAV tax as a hedge against payments to SNC Lavalin if ridership did not meet projections. Small business (Liberal supporters) revolted and Falcon created the phony TransLink review to make TransLink a provincial governmet controlled organization.

Even in Toronto, the TTC is going away from hugely expensive subway construction and building with much cheaper light rail. {From the Globe and Mail} "They (light rail) are also cheaper. While new subway lines can cost as much as
$250-million a kilometre, building dedicated light-rail lines can run as
much as 10 times cheaper, ranging from $10-million to $35-million a
kilometre, Mr. Giambrone said."

Campbell and Falcon have painted themselves into a financial corner with RAV and will fiddle the books; stack the new TransLink board of Experts with political hacks; and continue to mislead the public until the entire TransLink house of cards collapses sometime before 2015.

Relatives

OK boys and Girls, how many relatives has Gordo and his clan have working at SNC Lavalin and the Australia-based Macquarie which is involved with the Sea-to-Sky Highway expansion and Golden Ears Bridge?

Other than his, according to Rafe Mair, Gordo's relative by marriage, convicted fraudster, who got a sweet deal from the provincial judge, it is understood Gordo has a few relatives who will work for and will profit from SNC Lavalin's jobs in BC.

BC Mary, G. West, have a look at the family tree, it may prove very interesting. we know for certain that the Asper press and CORUS radio will never look into it!

Just a note on transit

A public transit system fails, when the 'public' are excluded from the planning process.

Ancient transit proverb.

You will get SkyTrain

You will get SkyTrain whether you like it or not. (Bill Van Der Zalm 1980)

You will get SkyTrain whether you like it or not. (Glen Clarke 1996)

You will pay TransLink's new taxes whether you like it or not. (Kevin Falcon, sometime in 2008)

They're everywhere!

And here I thought that judges just followed the law that was laid down by the government. At least we had some say in electing the governing party. I was all set to rail against that government's tendencies to make up new legislation whenever they're in need: teacher's strikes, their own pay raises, etc. After all, it's all about power and control.

Now you tell me that the judges are in on the deal and are making their own decisions about our freedom! Where will it end? And don't forget the police! Also unelected and unaccountable (especially in Vancouver)!

Time to split us all up into city states, I guess. This democratic accountability through a centralized government thing just isn't working.

SkyTrain - a taxpayer-funded sinkhole

If it had been built to best serve the public, instead of politicians and their favored contractors, it could have been a system that others would have copied. As it is, half the area is being served, leaving large sections of the Lower Mainland not feeding the SkyTrain ticket machines.

more of the same

Falcon is qualified as a Transportation expert by virtue of university degree in English and his real estate ticket. Why would anybody question his expertise.

Or is it just possible that Translink was not giving Gordo's campaign contributors full value for their donations.

Check this article out to see how agent Falcon gives full value to those who give.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/03/15/Audit/

Democracy?

Democracy? Yer kidding. The only time we have democracy is on election day, and that's once every 3 years at the municipal level, once in 4 at the provincal level, and about the same federally. Our problem is that the good citizens either have short memories or they haven't being paying attention and listen too much to the mass media.

Accountability

When Falcon meant he wanted more accountability from Translink, he meant accountability to him, not the taxpayer. The North Shore Mayors should simply not show up in protest. It's not like their inclusion in this structure will amount to anything anyway. The rest of the Lower Mainland will simply say thank you for your money for our megaprojects.

The red metro project.

Many people think that any 'rapid transit' project is 'green'. Not!

Which would be greener in the terms of transit?

One SkyTrain line from Vancouver to New West.

Three LRT lines serving Richmond, Lougheed Mall area, and Whalley.

Well for the cost of the latter, we got the former!

Captain Falcon is steering us and the TransLink 'ship of fools' into a financial iceberg. Guess who will get to the financial lifeboats first? Not the women and children, that's for sure!

Almost sounds like the

Almost sounds like the models utilized for both YVR and BC Ferry Services...

Gotta tell ya though... as a consumer of those two transportation services, I'm much happier with the quaility of product after the transition!

Of course, taxation without

Of course, taxation without representation is the mainstay of all of these phoney free trade treaties, all designed to remove decision making powers from the public.

It used to be called fascism, now it is called "globalized wealth creation" and they seem to be able to get away with it and murder.

Just recently I read an article, claiming how the North American Competitiveness Council, comprising of the largest corporate mafias of the 3 NAFTA countries, is planning to take over powers from elected governments, without any new laws passed, giving them the right.

And it seems, they may even get away with it, given to them by our "business friendly" governments and a suckered public.

Ed Deak.

Bob, did ya

Bob

Did you notice the general unkempt appearance of of BC ferries? The rust, etc.

As for the airport, I hate the place, poorly run, etc.

Council of mayors

If the mayors on the council of mayors really have no power, they should refuse to serve. Who wants to be a rubber stamp?

As with the Canada line, P3 hospitals, BC Gas, BC Rail, Gateway, this will be public money or assets going for private gain.

FALCON/WEASEL

Only FALCON could grin like a weasel while dispensing SH!T to the public.

DO NOT KEEP SILENT when your

DO NOT KEEP SILENT when your own ideas and values are being attacked. ...If a dictatorship ever comes to this country, it will be by the default of those who keep silent. We are still free enough to speak. Do we have time? No one can tell." -- Ayn Rand, Philosophy

Great article! I especially

Great article!

I especially like Campbell's quotes from the 1998 debate :-)

murdock: Judges rule on

murdock:

Judges rule on laws passed in parliament. They don't create new laws. Read about the Canadian legal system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_legal_system

Good grief ...

Bob Jeffries, that's a paid political announcement if ever I heard one.

Don't forget the families of those two people still on board the Queen of the North who would profoundly disagree with your fancy little promo for "the quality of product after the transition" ... so says you, as a "consumer" of said product.

Quality of product. A BC ferry? A product? Extolled by a consumer of such "products"? Give me strength.

Lack of concern

It seems by the lack of comments here, it proves the point that not many use TransLink, nor care about the public transit system.

Grumpy, I'm not a user but I

Grumpy, I'm not a user but I do care about the point of this article as outlined in the conclusion. Increasingly, we people are being shut out of decision making, shut out of control of the way we get to live our lives. The elite takeover continues, incrementally, and is shifting into high gear.

Grump:

Don't be discouraged....

It often takes a lot of time before the majority of people can accept change or buy into the need for change. One is often up against self- induced ignorance and apathy, denial, and information overload etc. by the info- overlords.

Recently on the TYEE someone posted that when approx 1/3 of the given population becomes disenfranchised on a given issue...the seeds of revolution are sown.

Revolution can simply be a radical change by the grassroots, and heads simply roll.

I think people of all political persuasions are getting fed up...and the " powers -that -be " had best tread softly and carefully and also realize we are the ones that ultimately carry " the big stick ".

PS I'll cite you an example in my next post.

the majority

Oh, I agree completely. That's the very reason why right-whingers often fail to recognize the gradual shift towards social democracy that has the corpo-capitalist elite living in denial.

Heads don't need to roll. But something will give. My guess is that it will be any system that equals money to entitlement.

Grumpy:

In today's March 22 VANCOUVER PROVINCE, pg.A13

Headline: " Richmond is forced to dip into reserves to pay for 2010 Oval ".

Details:

---About $84 million is needed right way for immediate costs in building the Olympic Oval.

---Much of the money will come from $113 million in city reserves, which have been shuffled from long term City works' accounts.

--in 2004 when they won the Olympic Oval right, they were counting on land sales, casino revenues ,and sponsorship rights to pay for the Olympic Oval.

Mayor Brodie is counting on the reserves for bridge financing...but all the sources of funds have been secured. (LOL)

---Just $43 million has been realized from the Land sales on the Oval site ie on adjacent City land not required for the Oval...(due to highest and best use via self -serving City Voted re zoning) . In 2004, City Manager George Duncan predicted that these land sales would generate $74 Million.( his projections are off by 40%, and this is in a hotter real estate market NOW than in 2004 and with higher prices NOW than 2004. What a joke !

---NO sponsorship has come forth...though the City was projecting $33 million.

---Casino revenues have produced $ 15 Million so far, and $35 Million of these casino funds are required for the next 7 years. (ie $5 million per year for 10 years to pay for the Oval ).

The Property Assessment appeals procedure has wound down, and the Local Gov'ts will now crunch numbers to determine their budgets. Looks like a major Property Tax increase in store to fund this Oval-white elephant aka the so-called experts were wrong ...AGAIN !!!!

The RAV et al is just another major deficit in the making besides the Olympics......now Local Gov'ts are in serious /desperate need of a Sugar daddy-ish cash cow .

The Local Gov'ts, such as Richmond, will be doing new OCP changes to UPzone areas and force the issue ...ie higher Property Taxes due to new "Higher- and -Best- Use" designations...more DCC's ..more Permits...etc etc. to perhaps help to break -even and cover political/bureaucratic asses , but certainly not to in any way benefit the increasingly disenfranchised citizens which these same " Powers that Be" simply load more amd more debt onto.

PS If Richmond had sold the 30 + acres of land , and not built the Oval, it could have realized approx. $ 100 -150 million and almost doubled its Cash Reserves.

Conclusion: You ain't seen nothing YET.

"That's the very reason why

"That's the very reason why right-whingers often fail to recognize the gradual shift towards social democracy that has the corpo-capitalist elite living in denial."

Stump, the elite are definitely not in denial. They see very clearly what they are up against and are moving ever more quickly to crush the growing awareness of who and what they are. They are fascists. I don't envy them. Nor us...

good one, Maestro

Summary is nicely put. I guess we can expect to see what's left of the GVRD's Livable Region Strategy for Richmond totally demolished now.

Without handling the dykes issue at all, it sounds like you expect Richmond to blow past its 2025 population maximum density of 185,000 inhabitants by....what...2008? And then onward to 250,000 or more by 2025? All of whom may require a multi-billion-dollar bailout when that 1-in-100-year flood arrives.

Keep us posted

Not on topic but............

Just a bit of nostalgia. In our front yard we have an ancient pear tree which has three varieties of pears, It came from the farm which once was on the land where the skating oval is. The chap who farmed there or should I say orchardist, spent a lifetime breeding new fruits or splicing fruit trees to produce many varieties of fruit from the same tree.

A friend of the family, Gordon Bicknell and my father went to the remains of the farm in the early 70's and rescued what they could from this notable orchard. The pear tree still bears fruit, sadly the other trees were transplanted to Sea Island and now are destroyed.

In other countries, such farms are kept as national treasures, not here, where asphalt is deemed a national treasure.

Livable Regions........

Livable Regions was doomed from the beginning as the authors of the plan never understood transit. I told them at the time and they laughed, I knew nothing. Well many years later, Livable Regions is doomed and our transit system is in tatters.

Grumpy:

Small world:

It is always interesting why the City of Richmond kept that 30 acre parcel for 40 + years. The city had bought the huge 700 acre Brighouse Farm in the early 1960s, then created the Brighouse Industrial Estates development. They had first sought voter approval via referendum to move forward was a public sector developer, it failed, but the City went ahead anyway...(perhaps an early indication of trumping democracy and perhaps part of Richmond City Hall bunker mentality political /bureacratic culture.)

What is interestin gis thta this same basic EX-700 acre farm is now being looked at with a new OCP. The City is looking at re-zoning it for high density residential. This flies in the face of the Cities original plan with it as the original developer. My view is that it is the path of least resistance to re-zone such NON residential land , if one is aware of how such things as Voters on NON residential land , NIMBY's, and rights of non residential tenants, etc.

Gov't does get credit for brilliant long and short term cash grabs and guns to peoples heads, etc.

The rumour of why this small 30 acre parcel was left was that a cow that had anthrax(?) and was buried on site as a health measure. However, the Olympics were never on the radar screen till about 3 years ago...and Richmond stole the Oval from Burnaby, so these 30 acres sittng there for what(?)reason . Richmond wouldn't have been able to grab the Oval without these 30 acres being available...ie what if Richmond had sold them?...or never had them?....where would it go ?...many things just DO NOT add up.

The evidence suggest that Burnaby started to blink and Richmond grabbed the Oval with nothing more than some unknown person or persons saying "HEY we have 30 ACRES over there and it will fit . Lets grab it and sign a blank cheque". Nothing remotely suggesting due diligence was ever presented,...the so-called viability and feasibility was done long after the deal was signed.

Hizzoner Mayor Brodie tries to BS everyone later about the added $20 Million parkade underneath vs an On-grade slab. Says it will save land otherwise used for parking so they can sell it to help pay for the Oval. In my view this idea is at best break even,ie the land they don't use for parking will sell for about $20 million(optimistically). Richmond has shown the hand of formulaic lies and deceit to the Voters that many Gov'ts use as standard practice. Weaseling and fudget budgets.

Many of those trees you mentioned were still there till recently, now the site is becoming one big flattened development site.

The name you mentioned is interesting,we actually met one of their daughters just recently and reminisced a bit. All part of the Sea Island airport expropriation purge in the 1960s and 1970's.

Small world.

Zalm: Interesting comments...

Talked to an interesting insider recently.

Richmond is looking towards a City Center plan to accomodate growth till approx. 2050.

This very well connected insider (trust me) stated that the new City Center plan will be maxed out in 1/2 the time , as you so wisely predict.

What was even more interesting was what goes on in the backrooms and what process etc. leads to and makes these types of decisions...as this same person laid it out in detail of what goes on and/or what went on .

Suffice it to say, its not a pretty picture...but concurrently doesn't surprise me, it all adds up given what anyone who pays even a little attention would likely concur and reach the same conclusion. Classic example/s of Inmates Asylums, Rasputins and whispers in ears.

Stump and Cynic:

Heads will roll, they always do.

I think the classic choice between "the devil you know" VERSUS " the devil you don't" may have the latter trumping the former in the near future. A silent revolution may be brewing, otherwise we simply encourage more of the nouveau same, a very scary thought .

The NON Right -wing politicians aka Lefties are continually following some Darwin society model..." deer in headlights on a super autobahn ". In my view, the Left's survival is predicated on an evolution to create a more fiscally responsible elected and truly old school democratic representative group.

The current so-called right wing is becoming much like a "tax and spend left wing"...these old roles to achieve valuable balance in the political universe are getting turned inside out and upside down.(?)

I think many have misinterpreted what is going on...the so-called Right is becoming tax and spend like the old so-called Left...balance is perhaps achieved if the Left more objectively , and not ideologically, identify the actual political spectrum deficiency void and hence fill it properly to re-achieve and re-establish the political spectrum' s true and desperately needed balance. (Isn't this what Tony Blair did in Britain ?).

In other words:
(new)Right = (old)Left...

THUS balance is re-established by

(new)Left then becomes =(old)Right.

Richmond Council has a significant Left Wing/Leftie presence,and perhaps one Leftie more it would be a small Leftie majority but their voting pattern is not all that different than their non -left peers... it's becoming generic...but the Lefties appear the most clueless , almost like political groupies. Most are civil servants, sorry, but that IS a conflict of interest in my view.

Perhaps this is why the Left is increasingly ignored and on the extinction list...it hasn't figured this out and thus authors of its own demise continually writing sequels.

As this topic alludes to " Taxation without Representation " hasn't History already laid out the template and the plot of the end result...all the foreshadowing is looming...and a sequel is long overdue?

Wow

are you ever 'plugged in' maestro.

I am impressed.

But you're still twirling around in circles.

And being ignored.

G - Alci-West

......still mooching or trolling with no hook on the line eh? Is that environMentally friendly or just plain stoopiyd?

PS Also contradicting yerself..."you" didn't ignore it...but then maybe you are perhaps truly a non -entity, thus = zero...thus one of the few truths you have authored in past ,present and likely the future.

Time 4-U to go rag on Shannon R.

Maestro

The Irrelevant Left is coming for YOUUUUUU :-)

Perhaps you should pay attention to history as it exists, not as you want it to be. The whole world is slowly moving 'leftwards' (to use your rather useless shorthand of bi-polarity) and will continue to do so.

I think you're making assumptions based upon a few years in a couple of countries. Clearly the trend is the exact opposite of what you profess -- when we look at things on a global perspective over a period of several centuries.

Earth to Stump:

Nothing's changed Stump...view still holds and even moreseo listening to Leftie babble here and globally.

Thought I might submit those previous comments to see what debate might evolve.

Are you still accepting collect calls from G -Alci-West ?

See....G West quoted me, then looks like he got "stumped" , sh!te his pants and took off speechless.

Look for the quivering rock just above the hard place.

PS out biking today?...I and 100's of others had to avoid some cheap a-hole on a bike who was forcing drivers to avoid the curb lane so they could express their version of a green vision and drive slow. I think they should ticket them and tow them as well, maybe be forced to do community service and wash 4 x 4 's that have been out 4 x 4 ing.

Ah well...

out biking

To and from work. To and from daycare. Luckily being made of flesh rather than sugar, I didn't melt.

Must of taken 10 or 15 seconds out of your day. The horror.

Perhaps your MLA or MP will be more interested in your ideas for laws? I hear they relish letters from crackpots.

Nothing's changed

Nothing's changed

None so blind....

Stump: " None so blind "

Hey...Ray Stevens lyrics...see common ground.

" Everything is beautiful..." when traffic isn't impeded by the bike nazi's

Rafe Mair to join March 31 "Stop Gateway" rally in Delta

Ex-broadcaster Rafe Mair to take part in anti-Gateway rally in Delta next weekend

Joseph Ruttle, Surrey Now
Published: Saturday, March 24, 2007

LOWER MAINLAND - Ex-broadcaster Rafe Mair will be among those attending an anti-Gateway rally Saturday, March 31 in Delta.

The Stop Gateway event is being organized by Surrey resident Donna Passmore to bring together a broad-based coalition of environmentalists, academics and other citizens opposed to the massive transportation plan for the Lower Mainland.

Passmore says the plan represents a "1960s mentality" toward solving the region's gridlock. "I've been working on sustainable transportation issues for 16 years," he said. "This is the absolute wrong way to be going. If anything we need to be investing money to expand public transit."

Passmore has a wide range of objections to the plan, from concerns about global warming to ALR protection and threats to wildlife. But it's the process of selling it that really gets her going.

"[Transportation Minister] Kevin Falcon has been promoting this fallacy that he's consulted with thousands of people," she says, noting more than half the people at an information session registered their opposition to the plan.

"The government has been engaged in the most egregious example of manufactured consent this province has seen."

Mair has agreed to attend, echoing Passmore's concerns about how Gateway is being sold to the public more so than the plan itself.

"The reason I will be there is to complain about the lack of proper process and the need for environmentalists around the province to unite," Mair said in an e-mail.

The rally is from 2-5 p.m., at East Delta Community Hall, 10379 Ladner Trunk Rd.

Thanks for that Mary

And thanks too to Donna Passmore and Rafe Mair.

It's important to remember - just as with the recent citizen-driven demonstration of disgust and collective angst over the government's plan for the decommissioning of the Legislative Library - that the people have, in their own hands and with the assistance of a few members of the media who have not sold out totally to the Campbell clique and their entitled friends, the power to fight back in a principled way against these machinations.

We can work together to send Campbell and all the other corporate ‘kleptocrats’ back where they belong before every horizontal surface in this province we all love and care about is paved or covered with ticky-tacky constructions of dubious provenance.

These people do no have the public interest at heart.

Thanks for letting us know Mary.

errata

should be:

...do not have the public interest at heart

(looks even better in bold)

'We can work together to

'We can work together to send Campbell and all the other corporate ‘kleptocrats’ back where they belong before every horizontal surface in this province we all love and care about is paved or covered with ticky-tacky constructions of dubious provenance' congratulations gwest/alcibiades/?/?/?! that little bit of nonsensical lefty garbage will merit prime consideration for the blather of the month award.

announcement #1

Stop The Gateway Rally

On March 31, 2007 a mass rally will be held in Delta to protest:

for Sustainable Transportation
for Wildlife Protection
for Agricultural Protection
for Neighbourhood Preservation
for Democratic Process

Saturday March 31, 2007

2:00 - 5:00 PM

East Delta Community Hall
10379 Ladner Trunk Road, Delta
(Between Highway 99 and Burns Bog)

This is our chance to show support for all those folks who stood behind us last year. They are being exposed to the same treatment as we were at Eagleridge Bluffs - a complete lack of consideration for local residents and the environment. There are alternatives to the Government's plans that will achieve the same results, but no one is listening.

We will be chartering a bus to Delta and would like you to join us to listen to Rafe Mair, Joe Foy, Donna Passmore, Gordon Price, Adriane Carr, David Chudnovsky and Jim Houlahan speak out against the current version of the South Fraser Perimeter Road. We expect a departure from the Horseshoe Bay area around noon. All times and details will be confirmed as we get closer to the day.

Please send your name and email address to Ray Rogers

along with how many seats you will need. Do not respond unless you are certain to attend as we need to make sure we don't waste seats. If we fill the bus each seat will cost $7.00. If you are planning on attending but will not require a seat on a bus would you please let Ray know prior to March 31 so we can have an accurate count of our participants.

Thank you for your continued support!

The Eagleridge Bluffs Coalition - Standing Up For Nature!

Or by city bus

Take the 351 Crescent Beach bus from Burrard Stn, it is a 46-min ride plus 10-min. walk (well the bus takes 3 min. if you make the connection) from the end of the line.

gee i'm so disappointed that

gee i'm so disappointed that i won't be able to make that crying rally. i'll be doing something productive that afternoon: coaching a kid's soccer game. some of you whiners might want to try such an activity. maybe you'll discover what real british columbians are saying about building our infrastructure to meet current needs.

'for Democratic Process'.

'for Democratic Process'. you would mean elections here wouldn't you ray?

i mean, as opposed to having

i mean, as opposed to having 78-year-old grandmothers breaking the law and then claiming it's right because an extremely small minority of the population thinks it is?

Leftie Royalty

Oh good...

All the usual Leftie Royalty will be there at the rally and their "higher purposes calling "

"When we're calling yoo hooo hooohoo hoo hoo."..oink oink pass the hat.

Do any of this Leftie royalty actually live in the area they are protesting ?

Only common ground with this issue is they should re-route a bit of the South Fraser Perimeter Road through THEIR Vancouver neigbourhoods ie start at Arbutus corridor's North end and run it right through to South end. 3 lanes EACH way. Then we can set it up for another SkyTrain branch...as they will become accustomed to the 24/7/365 noise by then.

Calling all Lefties and Righties and Fence sitters:

Before you Lefties (and possibly others)get all lathered up,...(hope its not too late)... I will submit a link later on you might find interesting on this South Fraser Perimeter Road project.

It contains some VERY interesting info.

Ciao

Onother own goal

'We can work together to send Campbell and all the other corporate ‘kleptocrats’ back where they belong before every horizontal surface in this province we all love and care about is paved or covered with ticky-tacky constructions of dubious provenance' congratulations gwest/alcibiades/?/?/?! that little bit of nonsensical lefty garbage will merit prime consideration for the blather of the month award.

What is the score now Elliot?
212 to nil? I thought you right wingers weren't angry - guess that was just another typical dishonest assertion.

Must be fun when the only target you can touch anymore is a 78 year-old grandmother who's in jail and can't fight back. That really is the height of impotence.

Chris Simon hockey dude, Chris Simon and Marty McSorley hockey.

And I thought you were a real Canadian.

G -Alci -West -iabides

What is a R-E-A-L Canadian?

(All I get on a GOOGLE search is some obscure Superstore).

Please explain...

maestro

What is a R-E-A-L Canadian?

(All I get on a GOOGLE search is some obscure Superstore).

Please explain...

Post nonsense to me - right back at you dude - nicely wrapped and with YOUR label on it.

Meeting needs

Elliot said, "maybe you'll discover what real british columbians are saying about building our infrastructure to meet current needs."

It is too late to plan to build infrastructure to meet our current needs as the infrastructure has already been built. This meeting will take place to plan the building of infrastructure for future needs, perhaps with some thought to reduction of pollutants and environmental sustainability so they don't have to drive and pollute the air when they take their kids to a soccer game.

Gee, G -Alci -West- iabides

Still can't answer a straight -up question?

You stated it, I am simply curious, simply define it, for full- circle clarity sake.

Didya GOOGLE ?
Should I ask Mel Hurtig or Maude Barlow ?

Please advise.

maestro

more stuff for the garbage can dude:

You stated it, I am simply curious, simply define it, for full- circle clarity sake.

Didya GOOGLE ?
Should I ask Mel Hurtig or Maude Barlow ?

Please advise.

South Fraser Perimeter Road:

Check out this link re: the South Fraser Perimeter Road.

http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output/documents/p247/1161961392814_eda0203bb84c4a1384cb9389f2287e2f.pdf

Note the archeological concerns.

Interesting reading.

Interesting how this will all be resolved, as well as the other legal inferences and implications.

Aoplogies :(wrong link), here is the correct one

http://eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output/documents/p196/d22424/1160689077959

www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output

http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output/documents/p196/d22424/

Quote:PS out biking

maestro ! did you know that back in the day ofr dirt roads the GOVERNMENTS OF THE DAY WERE PETITIONED to pave the roads for the masses of people that embraced that NEW FANGLED GADGET...THE BICYCLE ???

seems that your HANDLE...MAESTRO is quite apropo...SH!TMEISTER...THE MAN WITH all the connections ! AND KNOWS MORE THAN ANYONE OUTSIDE HIS CLIQUE!!!

WOW!!!again,like steven harper,you are the smartest person in the room...NOW,GET OUTTA THE BATHROOM,SH!TMEISTER...and see how you fare in the REAL WORLD .

and i note your ally seems to write a lot like another TROLL ,bent on ruining discourse with his EMPTY DISCOURSE...YOU BOTH ,HAVE GONE THRU A LOT OF NAME CHANGES???

careful there thomas, or

careful there thomas, or gwest/alcibiades/?/?/? will have you banned from the site.

214 - nil and another own goal

boy you sure are a funny guy

boy you sure are a funny guy garth, and so creative too!

215, or is it 216? - nil

keep it coming El.

Blessed by thomas49

Thanks thomas49...truly honoured you focussed on moi.

Now get some WD49 err WD 40 on the keyboard..too many upper case letters...you ain't Harald Kahn are you ?

"We" don't need allies per se...unless you haven't noticed. However, " You " and your comrade-sky's seem to goosestep in perfect harmony at the drop of a...well..you know.

Interesting tidbit about paved road lobby and cyclists. Can't say I've heard that one before. Not a total loss reading your (typical)Leftie reBUTTal. Regardless, obviously one mode of "X" wheeled transportation has overwhelmingly trumped another via choice since then. As in DEMOCRATIC choice, all things being equal(Leftie oxyMORON).

The bicycle is more a relevant REAL WORLD example and parable of Leftie-ism. A few ideological zealots bereft of common sense and pragmatism get lathered up with a given subjective view to impose their punch party relgion on the rest of us...Didn't a posse' of Leftie politicians want to shut down the Burrard Bridge to "Cyclists only" ? Yep !!!

As I have said many times on the TYEE ...I traverse areas with dedicated bike lanes on a daily basis, MILES of DEDICATED lanes...as in " BIKES ONLY " lanes with all the logos painted on them. My dailynotes show "NO CUSTOMERS". EMPTY...SQUAT all cyclists.

Build it all you want, they don't/won't come?

Then....Lefties do what? Oh let's see..Lefties like to convince aka punish people?.....lets either force them at gunpoint or fine them...or tax them...yessir. Sounds like a (typical) "___Or Else" Leftie plan.

To accomodate them....the normal road gazetting has been changed so instead of 2 vehicular lanes each way for a total of (4) ....its one lane each way(for a total of (2) , as the bike lane absorbs what could otherwise have been a vehicular lane.This is on an arterial road and results in greater congestion = MORE pollution.

Conclusion : the simple existence of a bike lane is actually having a greater negative impact on the environment, it should be torn up and re-dedicated to vehicles to reduce the impact of the I-N-E-V-I-T-A-B-L-E.

This is a Perfect "parable-like" example of the religion of Leftie ideology being catered to in an increasing disproportional sense by clueless gutless politicians to the benefit of an increasing minority. Chant " Ohhh Bike Lanes ..Go Green ...oooo". Common sense and pragmatism are then ignored, and this is why Lefties belong on a separate channel so we can actually tune them out if not shut them off. Then we can get back to our REGULAR reality programming.

Of course the Lefties will get all lathered and throw more ideology on the fire of pragmatism to try to extinguish it...with the usual result. Squat /bugger all.

Yes,....often you just can't keep a good Leftie down...but the "proper Polls" usually keep them in check and out of harms' way. Lefties = Food for thought(???)...or is it fodder for future amusement( ???=!!!).

Rant on Bro'!!!

Burrard Bridge Again

This erroroneous statement has already been corrected once. Please get your facts right.

spelling correction

"erroneous" obviously

Re: Burrard bridge

Political musings were recalled by the Lefties on Vancouver Council... otherwise the formal plan was to dedicate 2 of the 6 Burrard Bridge lanes to cyclists.

In a 6-4 Vote Vancouver Council voted against it. The majority ruled...ie the common sense prevailed on Council, , as did the majority who were Motorists , given the apparent Motorists vs. " two -wheeled minority fascist(?)" conflicts that had arisen in a previous attempt for bike lanes on the Burrard Bridge in the mid 1990's .

It was called off after one week of trial, though the intent was to extend it. Didn't learn from the un-re-invented broken wheel the first time ?

the other half of the story

from the '96 council report:

The trial bicycle lane during Environment Week created several changes
in travel behaviour, most notably a decline in traffic using the bridge
of 8800 car occupants/day. There were increases in the number of
cyclists using the bridge and these are summarized in Appendix C.

The bike lane project also generated a significant volume of public
contact through the hot line, E-Mail, letters, phone calls, etc. Over
700 comments were received which were almost evenly divided between
those in support of the measures and those opposed. The summary of
public input is listed in Appendix D.

WHAT DID WE LEARN?

Further to the traffic data and public commentary that was received, a
number of broad conclusions can be reached. These include:

- There are very strong emotions on both sides of the bike lane
issue. The pilot project served to polarize people's attitudes
and, to some extent, reduced tolerance of bicycles operating on
street. This affected streets well beyond the Burrard Bridge
corridor.

- Travel behaviour, within the corridor, was modified in two ways as
a result of the pilot project. First, on an average weekday, there
were 870 additional cyclists (39% increase) and a decrease of 8800
car occupants (9% decrease). There is very little indication that
people were diverted to other routes; consequently, a number of
person trips were not made across False Creek. Either these trips
went to other destinations or they were discretionary trips that
were not made. Overall, 7500 fewer people crossed the bridge each
day.

Secondly, vehicular drivers changed their behaviour quickly and
adjusted to the installation of the bike lane. Delays of up to 20
minutes were reported early in the week and reduced to a few
minutes of delay later in the week.

- Congestion increased as a result of the installation of the trial
bicycle lane. Delays occurred to all vehicles including three to
four minutes reported by Transit officials for buses. There were
three accidents in the corridor; this is above average, but
probably is not statistically valid and the most significant
problems arose at the north end of the bridge with the off-ramp to
Pacific.

Clearly the biggest problem with the project was car drivers unwilling to share space on the road. Sounds like a conductor I know.

Conductor?

Who?

The one on the kids TV show ? ....Who almost got fired because of almost being late for the show due to two - wheeled fascists blocking traffic ? Even the ones with $125 bikes from Canadian Tire .

Disappointed children turn into militant Lefties...vicious self - perpetuating cycle...read all the studies.

==========================================

keep going my friend

with every idiotic bout of name-calling you diminish yourself and devalue any smattering of intelligent commentary you might yet display.

Your anger at that which you make no attempt to understand says a lot about you.

OK as long as we are still friends....

Stump esq.

BTW Now, remember,you are the one that mentioned "conductor"...

Regardless..." back on track ", I have no real major problem with cyclists per se, but like anything in life, the public has to be sold on its merits. That applies to all sides of the political spectrum, left , right or center.

Maybe bike lanes work in your neck of the woods..,good for you,...but they don't in mine.

We have miles of them...its serves more like a memorial to an idea that has tried and in my view failed miserably . Politicians that take OUR , I repeat OUR tax dollars and not only invest in this public infrastructure, obviously fail the rest of us, given the hugely disproportional benefit to a minority. The cyclist lobby should convince their like- minded peers and allies to use them..correct? However, it still fails if they have, and if they haven't what does that tell you ?

The report you cited had me zeroing in on the months used May and June..sorry that skews results ie more favourable weather prior to the summer when less people in town...everyone dusts off their bikes...also schools can skew number with the teachers perhaps encourage the children to go green in the usual touchy feely things they tend to do in modern education,..and try it during school hours.

More relevant is the say cyclist data from November to February months...traditionally the darker and harsher weather...the point in these studies is year round demand, not part time ....is it not?

If say 10,000 hard core cyclists were shown to make use year round and not for novelty sake ie say a trip to Stanley Park...ie they worked down town and would thus alleviate a round trip, then I could be, shall we say, begin to become more interested in supporting this idea, but personally its irrelevant to my own daily travels.

I know I throw comments forward somehat tongue -in -cheek about "cyclists as nuisances" but really...they can be a hazard to themselves and drivers...there are plenty of side streets on non- arterial roads ie side streets to travere from A to B , Lord knows we have discussed restricted vehicular access ie Leftie planter curbs on side streets, correct?

Finally, if cyclists want to cross False Creek...etc. then they should fund a " bike only bridge" and be prepared to fund raise for it and pay tolls...but quit the subjectively based theft of what was intended for vehicular traffic...bikes pay squat as it is, vehicles pay taxes in many forms.

I think the majority has spoken...as it should and that it was good on paper, but not in reality, and consequently reason prevailed when the final decision had to be made. Thus, there is hope out there, "right" comrade Stump ?

Maestro

Vehicles pay? Let's see, $36 million from the Department of Motor Vehicles, $450 million in gasoline taxes..... hmmmm, can't find any more. total, say $500 million in round numbers.

Costs: ministry of highways, $1.1 billion, medical care requirements due to accidents - estimated by the BCMA at 9% of BC's Health Care budget or $1.2 billion, $600 million in foregone land value from roads that could otherwise have housing or business built on them, delays to valid commercial traffic of nearly $100 million (or $400 million if you believe the BC Trucking Association, which I don't).

Total so far: $3 billion in costs against $500 million in revenue. And I haven't even added anything for free parking, pollution, fuel manufacturing costs or construction costs for new roads, like $2 billion for the Gateway project, or $850 million for the Kicking Horse. Looks like a net loss to me, muttster.

Grab a brain. Cars are the silliest choice for society to make for transportation - not even Kevin Falcon would argue with that. We need to gently start making choices to wean ourselves away from this dependency and let our common ingenuity and spirit reduce our demand for this completely arbitrary form of personal expression and ego-gratification. If some wanna climb on bicycles and become two-wheeled hood ornaments for your speeding Escalade, I think the least you could do is try to dodge them.

Personally, when I'm on one, I stick to the marked bike routes which are on side streets. But it's amazing how many drivers want me to give up the one side street allotted to me, so they can use it as a faster route during rush hour.

I don't care if you hate cyclists. I'm not wild about the ones who run stop signs either. But for heaven's sake, recognize your addiction. Publicly.

You leftie moron's must be kidding...

You have got to be kidding.

I only periodically come here because I have to see what the heck you folks are on about.

So this morning, I check my email and here is this headline for this thread. Sho' 'nuff here you you all are, (there are a few exceptions forgive me) bleeting away about bad old Gordo Jus' doon things in the lower mainland and not consulting with you and taxing you without asking and everything.

Well for some of you, here is a rewind to focus your energies!

HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH GORDO...

You folks have been ardent NO DEMOCRATIC PARTY supporters for a long time, and your remedy for all these ills was lost with MIKE HARCOURT and company When they were in power so many years ago.

Remember the heady days when the Socreds were being tossed from anything but memories? Remember that referendum that asked whether you wanted "RECALL" and "INITIATIVE"? Mike Harcourt and his Non-democratic party butt heads gave you some worthless piece of legislation that cannot be regarded as recall and intiative the we voted for it. But you got it anyway.

You people are flat stoopid! You chime away at the lieberals and all us bad right wingers an' how yoo wants DEMOCRACY but you haven't got a clue what it is.

Democracy is definately not what we live in now. And all of the current parties, Liberals, Conservatives, Greens, NDP, the works, NONE want to change things because all of the parties have agendas that they want to force down somebody's throats. They all lust for power.

So blame this junk on Mike Harcourt because this mess you are living in is ALL HIS FAULT and YOURS for supporting him at a time when this legislation was being drafted.

Some of you know me as being against ProRep. I still am, however, IF recall was effective so that it was easier to intiate a recall of a sitting MLA, AND if there was INITIATIVE legislation that was binding on the legislature to enact, AND if such legislation did not prohibit the great unwashed public from reaching in and either amending any piece of legislation or outright repeal of any legislation if it was the mood of the public, then I COULD concievably go with prorep because it wouldn't matter who was the government of the day, because the people of the province would be holding the leash for all of the politicians.

I believe it is time for all politicians who are supposed to be representing us to learn the word "HEEL". They are all out of control and it's time to stop.

Zalm:

I don't " hate " cyclists,

They just symbolize many things.

However, your last post is somewhat skewed and seriously missing much of the other side of the equation. A strange combination of hot hair yet mostly flat tires.

Simple experiment is imagine life without vehicles and only bikes.

People " de facto " Vote all the time, " with their feet", not just during scheduled elections. One of these daily votes is one's choice of mode of transportation. Me, personally, all things being equal, IF I was say within 1-3 miles from work,I too would probably take a bike.

Now, the irony is watching yesterday's news and seeing how childhood obesity is becoming epidemic and experts are suggesting that current generations of children may not outlive their parents. Our kids are kept very active and do not fit this obesity profile, but it requires vehicular mode of transportation to access these activities, bikes are not practical for many reasons. Vehicles provide the opportunity to access many more options in life.

It would be great if bike lanes would have their own congestion /traffic jams , but in taking notes for years, I rate them as fiscal and practical failures...they were built and they didn't come. Many bike lanes which I see built seem to be away from the congested city centers, almost attracting more of a recreational use, a sort of ironic Catch -22, in that they should be perhaps a mode to reduce vehicular traffic commuting to work, but then this reduces traffic flow, and thus the vehicle ultimately wins.

Conclusion: The overwhelming " Vote with their feet" is foot on the gas.
That's both legal and democratic .

Again, sell society on the reality and practicality, not fund using ALL OF OUR TAX $$$ some sort of ideological agenda message by special interest groups that disproportionally benefits a very few.

Our politicians seem to cater to these ethereal subjective touchy - feely concepts far too often...and also band-aid if not simply ignore the more important ones, which is why many of us question what actually is true leadership anymore.

We have enough of that already, and don't need any more.

maestro

Pardon me dude, but you're the one who posted this golden example of nonsense to which zalm so rationally responded:

"Finally, if cyclists want to cross False Creek...etc. then they should fund a " bike only bridge" and be prepared to fund raise for it and pay tolls...but quit the subjectively based theft of what was intended for vehicular traffic...bikes pay squat as it is, vehicles pay taxes in many forms."

Remember?

The point is that the general public has 'funded' the roads and traffic system already. The fact that motorists like you can't find anything other than the kind of thing you wrote to say about their fellow citizens (bike riding or otherwise - who all pay takes) is the real mystery.

I'd say you've been well and truly "Fisked". You can look it up.

Taxation without representation...

Kinda makes me glad we "jumped ship" and returned home to Alberta...

So when do the residents of the GVA throw their own "tea party" in the waters of Burrard Inlet?

or are they just going to roll over and die like they do on so many issues?

Maybe its time that some of those who are complaining the loudest get off their butts and start doing something...

edmontongirl

Good One...

The don't call this the Left Coast for nothing.

While many navel gaze with circuitous arguments, others tend to move forward. We truly must be the laughing stock East of the Rockies.

The rest of us must keep soldiering on.

Be thankful your climate tends to act as some sort of natural barrier that keeps this minority faction out of your own jurisdiction ...but as soon as we do our own Jed Clampett and tap into Texas Tea in BC...(speaking of Tea and Tea parties), we can either fund some of this Left Wing Valhalla or send them out on the next bus...for their own safety...once people see what a shallow illogical ideology we are supposed to accept and tolerate ad nauseum. I have relatives in Alberta as well and it appears that don't rock the boat is the best advice to sh!tedisturbers.

These types in BC don't get that much of this sh!tehole is of their own making,and either oblivious to it or in denial of it .

G Alci West iabides

Couldn't give it a rest eh G West, at least for a day ?

I see the G Alciabides West psycho cyber-stalking programming kicked into hi - gear around quitting time.

Modus Operandi: Jumping in like an unwanted guest and speaking for anyone and everyone.

(Note to Zalm...does G West speak for you, or are you too lazy to answer, please clarify )

I see you and the " members only " moronic minority TYEE posse' are ganging up on another party in a current TYEE post, using the same old tactics.

BTW I guess your censorship petition didn't work eh? Maybe try again .

Obviously you can't read, nor see the point...time's up...OK blinkered gopher boy ?

Otherwise : Keep running in the " Leftie Iditarod", I hear you are gaining. Keep those elbows sharpened and bless us with some more of yer $5 (U.S)words.

Lovely own goal

Do you play on the same team with el, by any chance?

I think you'll find zalm doesn't need my help - particularly when you're his target.

Lemming

Whatever equation it is you're talking about, I was enjoying it until I stumbled upon your ratty comment that started my whole last screed.

You know, usually you have intelligent things to say, and then you can usually be counted on to ruin it by letting one last flaming triple-coiler with steam go, right in the midst of our (generic "our") conversation. I'd like you to stop writing about two paragraphs before you actually do. That's all.

The equation we can deal with another time. I wasn't focussing on it, and I'm quite sure you weren't either or you wouldn't have said such a silly thing without researching it first.

Why? It doesn't exist. It'll never happen. Even in Mad Max's time of serious oil shortages and war, there were still plenty of vehicles left. And that strikes me as a lot more realistic, given what history says about our race's predilections for status and comfort. There will always be a mix of transportation modes, partly to serve actual needs, and partly to serve ego. End of story.

I doubt it. I've been up at Children's Hospital all last week and all this week too. I almost gave up riding for two days there when I got so soaked by the sideways rain. And I have given up before and taken the car or transit, only I don't give up so easily now. I live just over 2 miles away. 15 minutes. Sometimes it sux to live in Vancouver.

See, your whole argument here rests on the fact that after a hundred years and literally trillions of dollars (add 'em up) in manufacturing and marketing of cars, roads, desire and consent, we have a society centred around cars. Big surprise, eh? And you expect to see signs of change after the "investment" of, what, 6 or 7 years and a few tens of millions of dollars? Who's in la-la land now? Especially when we consider that your car-centred empire requires the constant, everpresent subsidy of more than $2000 per taxpayer per year, whether they use the roads or not.

That's right. Your foot on the gas costs me $2000 a year. I'd like you to be a little more polite about it, because it's MY money.

Your rhetoric shows you to be someone who refuses to conform and follow the herd, but when you join the herd in the morning commute and blow your horn at all those (few?) cyclists who are exercising their refusal to conform, you get all hot and bothered. Why?

Give 'em a break, and perhaps a few more will join them. After a few years, they might have enough riders to justify their own grade-separated routes in and out of the city, giving you more road room to exercise your "freedom of choice".

Like you ever had any.

Quote:(Note to Zalm...does G

Don't be a bigger turd than Elliott the Iddiott. I work for a living, 9-12 hours a day, volunteer with five organizations, help out family and sometimes friends, and occasionally make time with the wife for some visiting and happiness.

I lurk here because I have the chance to learn something, and sometimes I unwind disassembling iddiotts into their constituent balls of shit.

Why do you lurk here?

Lest you think...

...I'm not a driver, I've an early Smart with 9000 km on the clock. I drive it like I stole it. I'm compensating for a really large penis.

What do you drive?

Ok Zalm

Like wise, you usually have good intelligent comments( which now somewhat assures me you ain't G West.

However, you did go a wee bit " postal" on that last couple of responses.

My main beef was when 3rd parties jump in with inferences of what 2 other parties were discussing and almost with a further inference they speak for some of these parties. The day was going along fine...other topics were unfolding as were the posted comments...but G Alci West iabides was boring even themselves so they started the old cyber stalking.

The rest is the usual old pattern on the TYEE, which has been duly noted many times.

Zalm:

FYI : Given your premise , in effect everything is actually " subsidized " .

The big pot called General Revenue has everyone dipping into it. Once one's kids are grown...why should one have to pay school taxes (usually as part of ones overall property taxes )?

However, one will continue to. Childless parties still pay it. People that have large familes and spread out in age gain the most.

SkyTrain will be totally irrelevant to us...yet we are forced to pay into it so others can benefit, so WE subsidize THEM.

Health care: Apparently, most of the health care dollars per person are spent in the last few year of life. We pay into that pool of funds...which implies most of us don't dip into public health care for most of our lives till near the end. We subsidize everyone else till then, if we classify subsidy as paying more into than recieving.

Etc. etc.

Re my comment of Bike to work if work was with 1- 3 miles...why would you say " I doubt it".
You don't know the particular circumstances... most of our first mode of transportation other than our feet was a bike. I biked 4 miles to work one way 5 days a week as a student. Nowadays, I could pick a good route and take a bike within a 3 mile radius, IF work was that close.

That's why I get a bit ticked off with " I will go inside your head and speak for you comments like " G Alci west Iabides the body snatcher " often does.

"Smart car"...good for you, though I am a bit suprised they really haven't cuaght on, perhaps that indicates something on a majority consensus.

Note: I did note take the bait and comment on you generous God - given endowment which compensates for your vehicular choice, gee, what if you bought a motorized scooter or a Segway.

IF I did actuall do that, G West would immediately get all excited. Hey whats this "..wwwwwwoooooooowwwwweeeeeheheheh ..".....see , there you go dammit !!! G.West has ALREADY hacked into my comments, look how excited he is.

Otherwise, much in the way of personal details, I think most TYEE posters would be advised not to. I assume you heard what happened to Truman.

( CONT'D )

I don't lurk here, I had

I don't lurk here, I had been e-mailed TYEE items by colleagues, then I simply chose to view it more regularly, and later join in and post comments. The stories are good, often timely, a wide variety, and provide a more comprehensive take on many things that the traditional media can't or won't cover . The editorial comments by the readers are interesting . However, some are discussing censorship,...yet often in pot calling the kettle black mode...and some are actually baiting others so they can be "Coyote'd". I am the last one that will wish to see someone censored, and have been on record as stating that.

I think self censorship works best...and many TYEE topics are just the same ideological rants repeated by the usual suspects. In hindsight, and I realized this early on, its best one not get too deep into an issue... the ideologues will shut you down with " burn the witch/warlock " and "J'accuse" trials...twist ones words... and unfortunately others miss out on what may have been submitted as info and discussed. Best to keep one's own cards close.

Congrats on your volunteering etc. ,I enjoy it too. I think you are an overall good dude Zalm , so simply take all this as nothing personal, its simply "the passion of moot court"...maybe we'll all one day sit on the TYEE posters retirement home and laugh over the good old sparring days. (Not sure about G West...old ___?? never die, they just___ ???)

Have a good one !

Truman?

What happened to Truman?

Truman happened to Truman, I think

After Truman made a big deal about posting his name so everybody would know who he was, GWest looked his name up in the phone book, tried to call him, and Truman was going to accuse him of harassment

Peace, bro. You've sent

Peace, bro.

You've sent some good information our way, especially about Richmond, and a few other topics to boot.

I just get irritated with the "Leftie" banter because I don't know what it means to you. You, in some circumstances, seem to support all manner of public goods traditionally associated with small-l liberal philosophy (see Mill) that we have often called leftist in the recent past. Occasionally you have a libertarian streak in you. All well and good - it's good to be suspicious of big-anything, whether government, unions or business.

But leftist views appear to inform your thinking at least as much as "rightist" views, if I can call them that, because I think that's a rather new, even made-up word. It's not like I want to pigeon-hole you, but your language demands you be pigeonholed in the anti-leftist camp, whatever that is, yet you don't fit there.

I freely admit I don't read everything you write - I don't even read all the threads or articles on the site. No wonder your consistency hasn't amazed me. So where do I put you? How do I respond to you? Like Eel-iott? Like Coyote? Like Cappy? Like Grumpy? Or should I just laugh?

Drop a clue. Lord knows I'm not the brightest character in the world, but I can learn. Cappy and I have both learned to have a respectful, if antagonistic relationship with each other. I won't waste my time with elliott. GWest and I definitely have a respectful relationship despite our differences, and I support him regardless of that bogus issue that some others seem to be stuck on, and not just because I would learn way more from him by engaging than ignoring him.

And just so you know me....I think it's OK to have ignorance of a subject. But when presented with information about a subject, and to maintain one's ignorance - that to me is reprehensible. That's the one thing that will make me see red.

Now you know what will always get my goat

Blonde Pitbull and Zalm

Truman a few weeks back said some parties had come to " visit him " where he lives.

Apparently they tracked him down via his use of his real name and apparently over some of his TYEE postings. He didn't go into details, other than it was in a harassment / threat mode by these aforementioned parties .

Zalm: I didn't hear about that G West contacting Truman and Truman making harassment accusations...was that posted before? where did you here that ?

PS That's why I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to post real names or e-mail addresses.

Zalm

Labels , especially one's position in the politicial spectrum , are interesting...but your analysis is likewise. Very intuitive.

For the record, I have " in-lawed " into a family of "Lefties", am immersed in Lefties, "Leftie immersion", but all is fine, this has been a good relationship for decades. I guess opposites attract big time. Many are in public service, have degrees, will vote NDP provincially and Federal LIEberal federally in kneejerk fashion . Suffice it to say, always good discussions, moi generally wins in our moot court -no holds barred.

So what is a Leftie ? That can be a huge discussion, but often they are parties whose definition of equality is the lowest common denominator, State intervention on just about everything via legislation till you puke, tax and spend/spend and tax , flatlining illogical ideology etc. Hypocrisy and inconsistency. Anyone that dares disagrees with them is usually deemed an idiot or an a-hole. Typical tactics are " When did you stop ___ing your ___?"

Einstein once said something to the effect that when you shine the light on an issue, analogized as a circle of light, the large the circle,the greater the answers, BUT concurrently, the greater the circumference of the darkness around it. ie more questions result(darkness)as more answers are found(light).

No one has absolute truth, but we are all continually immersed in the so -called truth -wars. Often the truth is surficial, but in my view moreso on the Left side.

Your quote: "Ignorance on a subject.." is a truly relative term just as knowledge of a subject is a relative term, much like my Einstein analogy...sometime the light = the question and the dark = the answers... and then often flip- flops in the vice versa mode .

Portions of Leftie-ism are fine, perhaps best refered to as the more pragmatic and logical portions of socialism, such as Medicare, OAP, etc. Let's build on strengthen and maintain those.

I am not saying that the other sides of the political spectrum don't have a lot to answer for...we'll let the dust settle there. Some of us are immersed in specific issues..."Knowledge is Power", and its often amazing how the more one continues the journey how the dots are connected.

I tried this early on, commenting on the TYEE with deeper look on some issues, but have decided Naaahhh, NOT worth it. The typical Lefties just "J'accuse" and shut one down. THEIR ignorance is embarrasing.

Is that my problem ? No.
Do others lose in the opportunity to be better and more comprehensively informed ? Yes.

(CONT'D...)

So Truman had unexpected

So Truman had unexpected visitors. Doesn't sound like it went too well. Hopefully Truman is over it by now.

Quote:Zalm: I didn't hear

Yeah....uh...don't ask me to find it. We can't search by post any more, unfortunately. It was late in 2006, I think.

I also recall an exchange (at the end, none too pleasant) between Truman Green and James Green, and got the distinct impression they were related....

Quote:I have " in-lawed "

Hmmm....I in-lawed into a family of "righties".... and am rightfully called the "outlaw" now... Still win a bunch now and then, because I don't press untenable positions. I get more mileage out of exposing faulty logic, regardless where it presents itself.

'sfunny, I don't get bent about that any more because it seems to cost so little in contrast to more than $12 billion a year in military spending, or $32 billion in business subsidies, both of which, though they add to the GDP, nevertheless impoverish society with their total waste of resources. A billion on a gun registry is peanuts, by comparison, especially when 65% of taxes are raised from the aforementioned individuals, and only 15% from businesses. If ya didn't pay fer the song, ya don't get to complain about the singer....

As we both agree, big government wastes money. What matters what they waste it on as long as the right people benefit, ie us? By all means, reduce waste. That should be the natural aim of any citizen who has not reached his Peter Principle limit. But don't use that as an excuse to ship the remaining tax dollars overseas to non-Canadian investors in non-taxable profits, when they could be benefitting investors and taxpayers at home, if we set our policies right.

I may think of social credit as voodoo economics, but they were right - the dollar spent a home has a ripple effect far beyond its original sum. The dollar spent overseas sinks like a stone into a pond.

Which is why I get a bit wound up over "some people" selling our natural comparative advantage (BC hydro/cheap power rates) to foreigners for no net benefit to the people of BC.

Might be interesting to meet for a beer. I suspect we have more in common and less at odds than most on this site. (Never mind, that's the third glass of wine talking now)

...but I'm still a LEFTIE!!!

Maestro

Please continue

Zalm: Re: " Cont'd "

No problem:

This post won't get archived till later...kicking back and philosophizing ain't a bad P/T gig. I'll keep posting. Stay tuned.

Is that?

Is that a budding romance I see here on the Tyee?

Club-sky

Philosophical question...

If I throw a stick will you chase it..or will you get all excited and h*mp it ?

(No hard feelings,... so here's a joke fer ya).

A Bear and a Club-sky both had their arses over a log when nature called.

The Bear says to Club-sky..." Do you have trouble with sh*te sticking to your fur ? " (NOTE: ....other than the hairy palms )

Clubsky says " No "

So then the Bear has a dump and grabs Club-sky and uses him to wipe his ass.

(PS Is that what really happened Club-sky ?)

Now, now...

You're just showing off in front of your new friend! I'm so happy you've met someone. Just want you to know that I've moved on. I'm really over you this time. Really...

Club-sky last post

Translation:

It went over your head like everything else.

Advice: Maybe grow another one.

Zalm shows that there is hope and much common ground...unlike some other unnamed TYEE posters.

BTW: Did you and the TYEE posse' knock off a few other TYEE posters...haven't heard from them in a while.

Green

Yes I'm Green, but not with envy... I see you are newly smitten and I just want your new friend to know that nothing ever happened between us, never will. Isn't Spring absolutely fabulous!

Leftie test: results prove negative(redundant).

Club-sky

Quote-sky

" Just want you to know I've moved on "

Then Club-sky returns... The Return of Clubsky " the sequel".

Philosophically: When did you ever arrive?

Realistically: So? Like I even care what you do ?

Legally: Broke your own word/agreement ie you returned vs moved -on. ( Leftie self-exemption ? )

Only " Fabulous Spring " that gets you excited is the broken one in the High Chair you are sitting in.

Try again.

maestro,BS queen...

geez,maestro ,you sound like one of those liberal queens kevin krueger or that other weasel that is pictured at the top of the page...

SMALL WONDER YOU DON'T USE YOUR REAL NAME !

Radiant!

I can feel the glow of radiance, you're in love and that's so special! Have you told him yet? I guess maybe it's a little soon, you don't want to scare him off too quickly. I'll just sneak away now, pretend I wasn't even here! My apologies for the interuption, I'm sure he'll be back soon....

Zalm:

Sorry about that:

Now you see why I have concerns re: certain Lefties sub - species.

We had to call a pest control expert, took about 3 hours. Once Miss March showed up, Clubbed n' TommyIQ = - 49 took off like bat out of hell-sky.

Maybe need to send Miss April in next to do a clean sweep.

hey master BS artist............

geez!!!ain't that what maestro means ??? one who has mastered the artistry of BULLSHITE !while playing yankee doodle dandy is my daddy on the accordion ???

OR DID I MISS SOMETHING IN WEBSTERS DICTIONARY WHEN I WAS LAUGHING AT YOUR LAST POST ???

about thomas49...thats the ,name given,the year born(along with my identical twin brother harald)and the exact time in seconds between us(me and my bro that is)and my IQ is higher than DOLTS like you can count,even if you use all your fingers and toes...

so,maestro...again we see why you don't use your name...just another big mouth with nothing to say but lots of time on your hands to fill the air with your BS.

funny how you cannot even win a debate against your buddy G West and we have all seen his debates over the years and those serious DEBATES are something that you could learn from...

BUT ,YOU MAESTRO... ARE THE PRIME EXAMPLE OF THAT FINE LINE IN COOL HAND LUKE...

WHAT WE HAVE HERE FOLKS!!! IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE .

typical liberal queen...and hey maestro,when are you and krueger coming outta the closet ??? probably when you start collecting your pensions no doubt !

like the "taxation without representation under new translink"doing what you and those KLOWNS think you all can get away with,again typical NEOCON BS.

Sorry bout what?

You're true to form. Full of insults, some so obscure that I don't get them. Whatever GWest and clubofrome said to get you going, I think you need to take a deep breath before you plunge in.

It's not that you aren't making any friends, because you aren't. But you're not even intelligible.

I liked you better when we slept together, you big logical, libertarian lunk. The clown that's full of insults, I don't even know.

Hmm:

Methinks something is a -Miss

Correction:

Methinks something is a-Miss-sky.

LL Cool Hand wingnut...

Libertarian Lunk! Good stuff! I've only ever tried to point out that there are multiple personalities at work. The raging "leftie bashing" moron. Inspector Conspiracy looking for evil at every turn thinking everyone who disagrees with him is a GWest clone. Then the somewhat normal family guy with a seemingly encyclopedia like memory for facts and details about all things BC. All those under just one name!! As far as I know I'm accused of being a leftie idealist for which there may be no cure! Not exactly the same type of anti social personality disorder on the scale of this wing nut. Rage on blow hard!