de-evolution?

perchance the Quebec provincial (in the parlance of 'la belle provence' National) election election has hit upon the kind of real change that 'the canada' needs.

de-evolution, just as the nation as we know it now evolved from earlier forms, so do can it fall back into those forms.

Better that the ADQ's version of powers to tax and govern take hold, as the 'status-quo' cannot continue ad infinitum without either the tax payer's pockets running dry or a continued reduction of 'services' to a point of irrelevant value.

Devoltion = more Conservative?

These two concepts cannot be expected to move in tandem. They may be both desired but devoltion to a province that has left-leaning government does not mean more conservatism, it means less.

Quebec, and to a considerable degree, Alberta have been asking for the devolution of powers for a long time. This can only mean less duplication of service centres and staff at govermental levels; ergo more efficiency and less intrusion by the federal government into areas of jurisdiction that were outlined at this country's founding. There's been much talk recently of the growing urban populations. Devolution of power at the provincial level is probably a good thing to also consider.

Question

I think Mr. Harper gets it. More power to the provinces. Though, wouldn't it be scary if the NDP were ever to gain power in this province. They'd have double the resources available to them than they did in the 90s...

That is a very scary thought!

we've never really been a

we've never really been a nation. the 7 years war led to the proclamation of 63 and then the quebec act, which pissed off the anglais, which led to the constitution act 1791 b/c they wanted their 'own' colony. in the war of 1812 they defeated the yanks together but fought for entirely different reasons. durham's report suggested a unified gov't in order to make the french a minority so they would assimilate into english society, and confederation angered the francais b/c they became an even smaller minority. when the judge and jury in riel's trial recommended mercy macdonald said: "he shall hang though every dog in quebec bark in his favour". then they differed on the boer war, the tin-pot navy, conscription in WWI and WWII and on and on and on it goes. nationhood in canada is an allusion. we were probably most unified when paul henderson scored 'the goal'. how frivolous. it will NEVER happen, so why pretend? harper is trying to be pragmatic and that may be a good thing, considering the damage that trudeau and chretien did with their lofty inachievable ideals.

detail needed

An 'allusion' to what Elliot?

Please clarify

are you seriously intimating

are you seriously intimating that you don't recognize a spelling error gwest/alcibiades/?/?/?, or are you simply being an ahole again?

if it's the latter your

if it's the latter your comment is a perfect example of why i don't 'debate' with you. you harass me for not engaging, and yet when i make commentaries you snipe. do you think it's any accident that most here think you're a fool.

Harper gets it.

Yes Capitalism, Harper understands what has to be done. You're right too if the NDP had a bigger budget and was in power here it would be scary. We have to volunteer our time, when needed, to make sure it doesn't happen.

Elliot, don't take the 'shadow's' bait. He's around every corner on this site, if you bite you'll give him the satisfaction of raising your blood pressure and throwing the whole thing off topic.

i don't pay much attention

i don't pay much attention realistic. he's the epitome of a blathering moron toting the marxist party line. i actually feel a little bad for a guy that spends so much time on this site.

Not at all Elliot

I was impressed by your post.

I almost totally disagree with it but that's no problem. I was simply questioning the part that didn't hang together for me.

I thought perhaps you were using 'allusion' in its normal sense of referring to something else - and I was curious as to what that might be.

So, you're actually saying that Canada is not a nation. Is that correct?

If that's the case, I'd like to understand what it should have done - at various points in its history - to have 'become' a nation. From your point of view of course.

I certainly agree that John A MacDonald - in his prejudicial and racist handling of the 'Riel' rebellion, made a serious mistake of judgment.

What frightens me more today though is the equally, and perhaps more serious, mistake of judgment that Stephen Harper is apparently entertaining in surrendering to his western Canadian power base the capacity of the central government to build a stronger nation in the future.

If all the Ottawa government is left with is the power to make war, dance a Schottische with the Americans and create a more socially egalitarian society in Quebec than we have in the rest of the country then we are truly in for trouble. I think that's exactly what Mr. Harper and his handlers want.

realisticman

That's as close to an admission of outright defeat as I can expect from you I guess. Avoid the confrontations because you’re just not up to them.

Incapable of countering the actual facts and figures of the Canadian 'problem'; I'm disappointed to see that you've reverted to an alliance with Capitalism - someone who has never won a single argument or sustained a single valid point in my rather extensive experience.

As Ed Deak posted yesterday on another thread, when a corporate relationship with an individual from the so-called accounting profession can subsist on the basis of whether a client wants his business to show a 'profit' or a 'loss' I think we know who the real crooks are. Ed's experience meshes almost exactly with mine. Moreover, the recent evidence of the penalty meted out in Supreme Court to a certain BC Liberal insider called Doug Walls is just another prime example of the duplicity of the system that you and Cappy idealize and, sadly, idolize.

Glad to see you've found a friend. Must be lonely out there on the extreme right wing.

It's actually too bad, other than your purblind acceptance of the business/commercial and privilege mentality I don't think you're a bad guy.

In this battle though, I'm with the 80% who are struggling and the 20 - 30 % of the kids in this province who live in poverty every single day. Your methods are making thing worse – a lot worse.

Devolving anything more to this government in Victoria would be a complete surrender to the rule of the Cosa Nostra - in my view.

Here's what Ed Posted

Somehow I don't think it's out of place here.

I have to leave and you guys can tear into it with your extensive knowledge of the issues so I'll have something to deconstruct when I get back to the office:

Capitalism survives and
Commentor
Fiat lux
1 day ago

Capitalism survives and thrives on fraud, deceit, lies and fraudulent accounting, so it is no surprise that governments in its service are hooked to the same.

The peculiar thing is that people always followed such crooks into suicide, since the beginning of time.

This is the only incomprehensible part, because it keeps on repeating itself through the ages and always ends in the self destruction of societies and civilizations, yet, people never learn.

I'll never forget a new accountant I had about 35-40 years ago. His first question was: "Do you want to show a profit, or loss?"

This may be an old joke, but I swear it was true.

Ed Deak.

I hope Ed doesn't mind!

Budget

What is this, an NDP budget???

These Conservatives are starting to really bother me. Clearly, some more vote buying here. Targeted tax cuts are one thing, yet I want to see more broad based cuts. Young people can barely afford to live on their own anymore - where is their piece. Where are the corporate tax cuts - where is the capital gains tax cuts??

Thankfully, more is being transferred to the provinces. This will give Mr. Campbell and Ms. Taylor greater flexibility. The BC Liberals are the only government we can count on.

I'll still vote Tory - what is my alternative - Mr. Dion??

These guys aren't even a right wing party. They are the Liberals, who tell the truth...

Cappy

YOU ALREADY TOOK IT ALL – you’ve had your payoff: That's the whole point - have you looked at corporate profits and executive compensation lately?

You want MORE?

Of course they're buying votes...what did you expect? You'll get your payoff if Steve gets four years with a majority and the people who really need some help will really get the finger then. But that's okay, the poor and the handicapped and the young and the old are used to it. Just don't interfere with YOUR junkets to Vegas eh!

Patience, patience...

G

I'm not an executive in a public company. I'm a partner in a medium sized business. Who cares what a few key execs are getting - they are hardly representative of anything....

Nothing will interfere with my junkets to Vegas. I just don't believe in targeted tax cuts to the degree we've seen over the past two years. I believe in broad-based reductions.

They better make good with their majority! Also a 4K levy on gas guzzlers - c'mon!

Sharing is Canadian

Elliott said:

With grammar corrected, I find myself agreeing with Elliott a second time in one week! I find that more than a bit frightening!

Humour aside, I can recall an article I read in the 80s that described Canada as an archipelego of islands located primarily within 200 km of the north US border strewn across a sea of forests. Though differences exist between these islands, there are some universal beliefs that have held them in a union. I have since viewed Canada for the last 20 years and have found the archipeligo description to be a good lens through which one can understand Canada. A few things come to mind when I look through that lens:

1. Because we have such cold/harsh winters, sharing is a good thing because it helps us survive. When the earliest settlers arrived, In BC, this tradition existed through potlatches and other less formal means of wealth redistribution. Sharing pre-dated European colonial forays/ideologies in "Canada". Once settlers moved in from Europe, they continued the learned the local practice of sharing through quilting bees, barn-raisings, crop planting and harvesting. The trappers, farmers, loggers, fishermen and settlers would go out into "the sea" to extact the bounty from the land - often trading and sharing with one-another. Those who were too selfish found themselves coming to lonely and bitter ends. Yes, the Chateau Clique and the Family Compact worked with all their might to recreate traditions of a ruling elite, but reforms to Euro-style aristocratic thhinking came despite the whinings of the priviledged class. Eventually (though it took some time), everyone agreed that all adults should be allowed to share in governance.

2. The rule of law and civility generally came before settlement by the Europeans. We have created systems of governance that do not allow one group to subjugate another group (though we are making up for lost time with the treatment of First Nations' rights Japanese WWII Internment, etc.). Canada never had much of a Wild West nor a revolutionary mentality here. Change came through compromise (with some backroom deals to appease the powerful or the angry, of course).

3. Yes, we have different reasons for political union, but a strong union keeps us strong - for surely the Americans, with Monroe Doctrine & Manifest Destiny as their montras, would swallow Canada one island at a time. And, almost every last Canadian can agree that he or she is NOT an American.

4. Hockey is a cool sport for a land so cold. It is a sport that allows the people of Canada to show that they have the moxy to deal with the unforgiving nature/brutality of winter ice.

5. Back to sharing again, Universal health care, gun control, public education, environmental protections, pogey and social assistance for the poor are a must.

It seems to me that most Canadians agree with the above statements (particularly #3, 4 and 5). I believe we have common ground for not wanting the feds to give more powers to the provinces. To give more power to BC and Alberta (in particular) just opens the door for TILMA and the eventual take-over of our land by the Americans. For if an American business can have an easy time running roughshod in Alberta, they will be able to do the same here - and visa-versa (wherever the least resistance can be found). With the strong American influence on Alberta since big oil started moving in in a big way back in the 40s, 50s and 60s, it will only be a matter of a few years before Alberta becomes the defacto 51st state with TILMA making BC to follow closely behind. We can't think that the Americans are ever going to lose their arrogance and believe that the Canadian way is the right way. If they can do business one way in Alberta, then NAFTA means that they will be able to do the same here. If other provinces sign on to the TILMA, then Canada, itself is doomed to merge with the Americans.

So, yes, I agree that nationhood has always been tenuous here; but Canadian disdain for (fear of) American military/capitalist aggression is as strong as it has ever been. The puppet, GW Bush, has never been clever at hiding the corporate strings that control him. Canadians have always seen that. That is part of why they wanted no invasion of Iraq. Canadians don't want the kind of life that most Americans have. They just want to visit Disneyland, Florida, Hawaii, and sometimes Mexico in the winter; watch CSI, Opra and a few Hollywood blockusters; and sit up here and laugh at all of the other nonsense that one finds in the States. It is my humble opinion that most Canadians find bitter-sweet satisfaction in believing that Americans, in general, seem more ignorant, unhealthy and self-absorbed than Canadians.

When one lives in the cold, one must remember: sharing is good. If we maintain a potlatch philosophy, we are true to the needs of inhabitants of the Canadian archipeligo, and we can accomplish much more as a confederation of peoples. For that reason, I disagree with Elliott's belief that we should have stronger provincial powers. We need nationally set minimum standards of care and education for all our people. We need to make sure that BC does not move further toward the American model of the richest 10% earning 29 times as much as the poorest 10%. We must redistribute wealth in order to have a healthy society in which to raise our children. It is time for us to reverse the movement toward extreme wealth for a few and poverty for many.

Compassion

You know me West, I see someone hurt and I reach out to help them. I've said some nice things to both Coyote and Alice before. Doesn't mean we're in love. Furthermore, I'm generally blind to people's pasts, even if a crazy Marxist comes up with a decent idea or comment I'm willing to listen. I don't consider them tainted for life.

As for devolving powers, you must know that across the spectrum in Quebec they call for less federal intrusion in provincial areas, always have. I thought that you were all for supporting the aspirations of Quebecers.

sorry for the typos

Whoops, sorry for the typos above. I think most of the meaning is relatively clear despite a few misplaced words and letters. I am really going to have to use that "preview comment" button. It would have helped with the above.

Baloney

Help my eye! LOL

You're as much into continuing corporate kleptocracy as Cappy is and you know it. The only Marx I’m a real fan of is Groucho.

Nice try though.

What I'm actually in favour of is similar socially responsible programs for the rest of Canada as Quebec already has - which you well know.

And, despite all the talk of devolution, there was no sign of it that I could see in this Budget. Not a single tax point transferred to the provinces despite all the huffing and puffing.

And, thank God, no further gimmees to the high rent crowd for extensive and increased capital gains rip-offs. That’s obviously something Flaherty is saving for when Stevo has a majority

But Harper's just about used up all the financial room he has so the next move is up to the opposition and, my view, there will be no rush to the polls. Duceppe will keep Stephen in power and Stephen likes it. Next big question is whether or not 3.4 billions over the next two years is enough to get Jean re-elected in P.Q.

This sounded an awful lot like a Paul Martin LIBERAL budget to me.

You?

Oh, let me know where to send the charity contribution forms so you can exercise your public spirited commitments to compassion and helping out the poor and downtrodden. I had no idea you were such a philanthropist. And I'm sure Cappy appreciates you throwing him a bone too.

And Cappy, I don’t care what size firm you run, you’re a self-confessed ceo and I bet you’re ripping someone off – if not today – certainly tomorrow.

Devolution..whoa

Wasn`t there a new wave group (old wave now I guess) some years back called Devo? for devolution...the people were called "spuds" or something.
How far back will Tom Flanagan and Steve take us spuds?
I seem to remember one of Devos hits was "Whip it"
When the train leaves the station..this spud won`t be onboard.

Profit or Loss?

Hardly the type of comment that allows you to condemn all business as fraudulent and deceitful. In fact, in many small and medium businesses that’s a rational question to consider before deciding how to manage you tax filings…..

Plus ca change

Haven't studied it all yet - working on a contract.

I give automatically through direct deposits.

I always defend people against bullies.

NLN

That is absolute crap. That may have been the case 30-40 years ago. Most businesses, especially public corporations are very honest in their tax filings.

Cash businesses have been known to cheat on their taxes, though this is anything but common-place.

Businesses believe in the law and they follow it.

simply put

Corporate Fascism:

Business controls Government which in turn controls the people.

Social Democracy:

The people control government which then controls business.

Capitalism

You misunderstand my point. I’m not suggesting that businesses break the law. As a small business owner the nature and extent of your tax filings could put you in a loss or profit position depending on what your objectives were. Nothing wrong or illegal about it. I raise that point to counter the ongoing claims by Ed that all businesses are fraudulent and deceitful.

Naturally, public companies have different obligations.

That is what I said to you G West

You kept asking for evidence, (on another tread)and when you got it, you just asked more questions!

Funny how it comes back to bite you in the ass!

I wasn't just talking about tax filings and neither was Ed

alive.
What are you talking about?

When have I ever avoided a confrontation?

You might want to check with the r/man and cappy about that allegation?

And when have I ever tried to score a cheap point on you alive?

That is, as always, your stock in trade - not mine. I'd suggest you might not care to have me post some more of the kinds of thing you deal in my friend.

The whole point of business is to turn a profit NLN. That's the Holy Grail, remember. Nothing else matters to the shareholders. And if they can do it with nil tax liability so much the better - that's what is wrong with the system.

I do appreciate the opportunity to permit me to point it out again.

Working stiffs have no chance to fiddle their taxes and their bottom line - their taxes go direct to the government. Or at least they're supposed to. I've also done the books for an awful lot of small businesses who run a little ponzi scheme of their own with withholdings as well. Just wish I wasn't ethically bound not to tell the authorities.

realisticman

Glad to hear it.

I'll start going back through your posts for some evidence. So far none has come to light - but I've only gone back a year.

By the way, I completely agree with this

as Ed has put it. He means 'capitalism in general, by the way, Cappy, not you in particular.

But I wouldn't want you to think I was backing down on the general case. I'm sure you THINK you're being quite ethical and proper...I just don't agree.

Which law (the jungle?)

Enron

Bhopal - Union Carbide

Nigeria - Shell

There's more but why beat a dead horse?

gaulois

I would say likely because the people didn't actually see much of that money. It's like foreign aid. The governments that give foreign aid KNOW that the large majority of it ends up in Switzerland or the Caymans, et al, and that the people see very little of it. I suspect the same holds true for the money going into Quebec. And I suspect the government (Liberal/ Conservative - makes no difference) KNOW this too. It's just another way of shoveling money to their 'friends', while making good headlines.

Stump!!

How can you say such a silly thing?

Businesses have, throughout history, given money to the arts and all manner of health research and continue to do so today!

Are you truly one of these people that imagine ALL business to be bad?

For god's sake!!!

And every damn penny of it is deductible

Cry me a river realisticman.

Stump could have provided a much longer list.

I hope you're following Barabara Amiel's and lord connie's performance in Chicago. Perhaps we can hear a little something about Eric Prince and Blackwater too.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060508/scahill

Capitalism is way way beyond altruism, my friend, way beyond altruism. Don't get me started.

Nevermind river, here's a tidal wave

Also,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_and_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philanthropy

What is this? Guilt? It's the foundation of much of our culture and health research, etc.

And don't forget

these are all after-tax funds.

Truth hurts

Billions in the budget for ecological measures.

Dare you to watch this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

I disagree - it's not very different

from the kind of thing the Medici were up to in the Renaissance.

You can be sure Mr Buffett has plenty of sharp practice to make up for and in a decent country he’d have been taxed more fairly and never accumulated such a crock of ill-gotten gold. Furthermore, like most foundations, his was initially used to provide a healthy roll-over to the next generation of corporate thieves.

For god's sake realisticman, if Bill Gates were a country he'd have more assets than many places with hundreds of millions of people. Corporate philanthropy doesn't even go a tiny bit of the way to make recompense for lives ruined and worlds they've wrecked. These people are only the latest iteration of King Leopold of Belgium.

You must be joking!

you must be joking about that youtube clip

I notice it's filed with stuff from Glen Beck.

In my view that kind of denial of serious science is the product of a bunch of cranks.

About on a level, intellectually, with Holocaust denial.

I'm surprised at you.

Even Terry Glavin wouldn't go that far.

But back to the budget. Pretty much on a par with a Liberal knock off wouldn't you say?

And if the Quebec voters take the money AND put Boisclair in as the Prime Minister of Quebec Mr Harper is going to look a complete fool. You can be sure that the Bloc will be working 24 hours a day for the next week.

Poverty and the rich

Realisticman,
If you really want a serious discussion about the role of the world's rich nations and the further role of the richest citizens of those nations in terms of making a serious effort to address world poverty, illness and health conditions, I'd be happy to send you a copy of Peter Singer's article on the subject. It would be a good place to start.

It's about 6000 words so it would be out of the question to post. Let me know if you would like to see it:

I notice it's filed with stuff from Glen Beck.

No it's not. He's not in it for 1 second. They're not cranks either. BBC.

Yes, it could have been a Liberal budget. One good thing is the two year write off for capital expenditures. That should create investments and jobs, and hopefully raise productivity. Don't want to watch tv;I'll read all about it in the press.

Thanks for the offer, when I have the time I'll probably start with a trip back to Florence to study the Medici's. Since they were among and perhaps the first to patronise art and architecture in what is our western culture. Early 7am start for a long day tomorrow for clients in Melbourne - not Macquarie.

Realistically

We really have to ask ourselves where the wealth came from in the first place that brings such kudos to the "unparalleled generosity" of history's rich.

For instance, this is how John D. Rockefeller made his money:
http://www.umwa.org/history/ludlow.shtml
But, I guess, once you make it, it really doesn't matter how many you've killed to get it.

The BBC has cranks too

In my opinion it's very thin gruel - a lot like 9/11 conspiracy theory in my view. A lot of my British friends are very discouraged with what the BBC has turned into…Orwell wouldn’t have been surprised of course – he worked there.

Florence IS wonderful. I often think the folks the Medici built their criminal enterprises on top of probably wouldn't agree though. Nevertheless, surprisingly - even though there is lots of wealth in Italy - it's a much more egalitarian society than we have here in this country. Sadly.

Art should serve man - not the other way around.

I guess the Glen Beck clip was just next in line with all the other ones making fun of Al Gore...

Accelerated capital write offs are just another gimme from one branch of compromised business to another. You know better than that. It's a cooked system and it stinks.

Let me know if you change your mind about the Singer piece – it’s very good. Some of his animal rights ideas I have very little patience for – but this was well worth the effort. Just give me an email address (I check that one every day or two) to which I can send it.

concerning the youtube clip

Yes, on par "with Holocaust denial." Thank you G West. I do belive realistic man needs to have a chat with objectiveviewingman.

Stepping away from global perspectives for a moment... nevermind ice caps and hurricanes... I can't ride my bike across the Viaduct into downtown during rush hour without hacking filth out of my lungs and wiping it from my skin in the morning. The fabric of denial wears very thin when you emerge from your glass box and face these very tangile realities. We're so concerned with the quality of our water -- what about the air we breathe? Would you like Evian to bottle that, too?

We're on an excessive and wasteful crash course here -- and it's very hard to imagine anyone can digest the propaganda these suits spew claiming that we have absolutely nothing to worry about and no effect or commitment to the natural environment. And we all know the men and their corporations most concerned with keeping the oil pumpin and palms greased are the ones who can afford to pay off interviewees and slick film productions.

Ah say

Very nicely put.

Thanks

what businesses believe

Putting aside the fact I'm not the individual attributing altruism to a thing... I can say such a silly thing, because too often the argument for capitalism is that it rewards greed, which capitalists maintain is the driving force for people. Greed is often the reason laws are broken too. So, we have Capitalism (the poster) often saying people are motivated by self-interest, but businesses just want to follow the law. Seems to me he/she needs to reconcile those opposing (to me) perspectives.

no they don't

No. You can't attribute intentions to non-persons. People in charge of businesses do those things. Sometimes. Sometimes they let people die because it's cheaper than fixing a problem.

But businesses ARE "people"........

That's what corporate law is all about. So either that means businesses follow their own self-interests a la The Corporation ), or people too just want to follow the law.............

As churchill said.

The law is an ass.

one less to argue with

Right Gwest,
you were not avoiding a discussion, but you avoided recognizing that my “evidence:” had any validity, and did not offer any contrary “evidence”!

So instead of being large enough to admit you had shot off your big mouth without researching first, you sent a steady stream of BS.

When the tread finally was going into the archives you lamely said that perhaps my solution could have some merit; like thank you for eventually admitting it.

I opened this up because in this instance the shoe was on the other foot, and I thought that perhaps you now could see how frustrating it is to have ones arguments totally ignored?

Guess not, too bad, I shall refrain from engaging with you again!

I don't agree with your analysis

Not then, not now.

Your 'argument' was a case - sympathetically told - arguing from the particular to the general. As a guide for policy and decision-making it had no validity. This is my opinion and I stated it.

I asked you for broader empirical evidence and since you were the one who suggested that castration was a useful method, not necessarily from a voluntary point of view, for addressing the pathology of serial sex offenders coming out of the prison system after having served ALL their time, I don’t think that was unreasonable.

Eventually you provided some evidence and I acknowledged that. In the interim, however, you reacted in an ad hominem manner to me as a person and not to what I had said.

I thought the final denouement of the discussion was about as satisfactory as it could have been under the circumstances.

You might want to go back and check to refresh your memory.

As to missing your 'engagement', given the tone you affected yesterday, I certainly won't.

save your time and energy

save your time and energy alive. this guy has become the tyee's resident mouthpiece ahole. he thinks he should decide who is allowed to comment b/c he's such an important guy. the most hilarious thing about this whole situation is that he actually thinks he's accomplishing something by spending 24/7 on this little unionist website. he refers to 'the work he's been doing around here' as being very valuable and appreciated by mr. beers and he justifies his despicable act of posting with multiple aliases as an 'experiment'. what a bloody joke.

Very funny

Still playing Chris Simon hockey I see El!

RealisticMan

Hey guy, I think you were talking about the Channel 4 piece "debunking" climate change?

For balance you should read this article about that show from the Guardian's George Monbiot.

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/03/13/channel-4s-problem-with-science/#more-1047

Balance

Hi Frank. I read Monbiot's comments. It certainly is a balance, of sorts, to the Gore piece but so much of the comments are ideologically driven it's tough to have a concrete perspective. Channel 4 is going to investigate further. I was reading some information recently that made sense to me, that 2-stroke engines that power much of the transportaion used in Asia, are responsible for a huge amount of pollution that even crosses the Pacific. Having traveled in Asia I can understand that these bikes, etc. individually create 10 times the pollution than a comprable modern car. India, China, Malsia, Thailand, Indonesia, etc., there are millions of them. Many studies have been done on this and in India they are trying to manufacture less polluting bikes. It's interesting to consider that as Asia becomes more wealthy through their capitalist economies and more replace their motorbikes/mopeds with cars, there will be 1/10th of the pollution generated. We should help them build cheap cars to save the planet! Seems crazy but true.

A NASA scientist claims that methane gas contributes a far worse dollop of pollutants than CO2. The methane is primarilly generated by vast tracts of paddy-fields growing rice! What do we do here? Rice! Help them build vast greenhouses for rice production where the metane can be captured and perhaps used for generating electicity? Maybe.

I've read studies that show that a significant, and perhaps the greatest, contributor to pollution in the BC lower mainland is NO2 which comes from the dairy-cows industry. This time of year cow excrement is sprayed on agricultre fields as fertilizer! This should be stopped, there is a biodegradable inducing enzime that really should be used by the farming industry, that renders bovine waste inert. Industry and transportation seem to be easier targets.

As they say; more study needed.

Wel..

The stuff you mention could very well help, but it isn't happening even though even you, a guy on the Tyee, knows about it.

Well, I'm a pessimist on this. I think immigration will swamp anything the West does and population growth and lack of political will will override any little moves in the rest of the world.

I know, I should believe that a $2000 rebate on a Prius sold in Canada will save the planet.

The biggest way to reduce greenhouse gases is to reduce population. Which would also reduce pressure on little things like the number of fish in the ocean and habitat for land animals. I see no chance of that happening.

So whether the guys from Channel 4 are right or not, its still just an academic exercise as its obvious there's a problem of some sort.

Wasn't it also Channel 4 that delivered the documentary "The Power of Nightmares"? That the whole terrorism thing is just a way of delivering political power to the Right?

realisticman - Not

We should stop eating meat too - no question methane is a huge problem. There are people starving in this world who wouldn't be if the grains going to produce beef cattle methane were used to feed people. Furthermore, cattle are ruminants and ought to be eating grass and hay and not corn and other grains.

The only study needed at this point is one to try and understand what's wrong with people who have the chance to act in their own long-term self interest and refuse to do so.

In my opinion.

First and most important step. Business travel is no longer deductible if done by plane. Get the worst polluters out of the sky as quickly as possible. You do most of your international business - as do the rest of us - electronically. Why do we fly when we don't HAVE to.

Monbiot has been trying to make this point for literally years. I see no progressive action from business at all - so, the bloody government will eventually have to force the issue.

If the muskeg tundra starts to thaw - which it is showing signs of doing, you're going to need one hell of a big greenhouse. That's a methane problem. A real one. I suggest a little side trip to the Aral ‘Sea’ if you think we have a handle on the mess man has made of things.

Sorry bud, it may well be too little and far too late - No more study.

Time for a little action.

One Grain, Ten Thousand Grains

Sure, grains are the right thing for humans to eat but we'll be long gone before a government has the will to force the price of red-meat beyond the reach of the average family. Cow's milk is probably still promoted by 'Health (sic) Canada'.

Gore's piece is a bit shrill, it's like a Moore flick, and the Channel 4 rebuff is somewhat suspect too. More study means that a calmer and less scaremongering assessment is required.

China is starting to wonder about obesity and their population is starting to decline since the birthrate has gone below 1.2.

Imagine my shock the first time I went to Shanghai and my hosts graciously took me to lunch at a McDonalds! It's tough to be polite. It was, fortunately, only for a snack so I politely scoffed a fishwich and we then decamped to a fresh noodle house for some real food. My mind was reeling, I couldn't insult them with my opinions about the McScourge but did show more eagerness and contentment in the noodle shop. As Eric Burdon, who's intentions are good, said to me over dinner many years ago, we've got to get to the Chinese, man!

But realisticman

You're the one who brought up methane - and you're the one who thinks airplanes and international travel are benign - and you're the one always posting trite and compromised comments and links made by and referring to global warming deniers and skeptics.

More study is BUSH talk for do nothing.

You're way too smart for that nonsense. We're in big trouble and if the west doesn't lead on this we don't just look like hypocrites - we are hypocrites.

If it means damping down our life style here and it the excited states, big deal.

This is the moral equivalent of war and you're playing the role of Joe Kennedy and Lucky Lindy in the late 30s.

Time to come around. You're playing maestro's hand on this one and Tyee doesn't need two maestros, God knows.

Are you aware of Charles Simon’s work?

You sure you don't mean Paul Simon?

When I think back
On all the crap I learned in high school
It's a wonder
I can think at all
And though my lack of education
Hasn't hurt me none
I can read the writing on the wall

Kodachrome
They give us those nice bright colors
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world's
a sunny day
I got a Nikon camera
I love to take a photograph
So mama don't take my Kodachrome away

Maybe Neil Simon

Of course, you must mean William Simon;

William Simon

Nope - wrong again

http://www.simon-archplan.com/

Love this one

William E. Simon

as for william simon

hardly.

The problem with the tax system is that it's been designed far too carefully to create the kind of society that's just the opposite of the kind Simon said he wanted. Productive people are the ones who don't get to fiddle the system; it's the parasites, cheaters and time servers who get to take advantage of a system designed and approved by and for themselves. The proof of the pudding, is, as they say, in the eating.
But thanks for the segue.

Check out CHARLES SIMON. He's an architect/planner with some really GOOD ideas - and ones that don't cost $1400/square foot either.

$1,400 sq"

and they're selling!

Harbour Green One was 1,400, love that red Brazilian marble cladding, and so is Laguna. What will Harbour Green Two go for?

Is it sustainable?

No pun intended. Cheer up!

sorry dude it's not...sustainable.

It's just a matter of time - the bubble is growing.

But you don't want to recognize that, do you?

I could care less if they're selling. One thing capitalism never seems to have a shortage of is idiots like donald trump and conrad black and folks who think their 'standards' mean anything. The people most impressed by ostentatious display are clowns. Have a look at the Opus Hotel some day….and don’t forget to read their bumpf.

Good architecture doesn't have anything intrinsic to do with marble cladding - never has, never will. I liked Frank Gehry's first house - for himself - when I saw it published in the 70s it was a far better building than most of the stuff he's produced since. That's not architecture it's theatricality and show, nothing more.

I don't know if you've seen it, but it was clad in corrugated iron and plywood. Very honest. Very human scaled. Very memorable.

Check out the Charles Simon stuff. The pdf brochures have a lot more information than the html pages.

Nothing to cheer up about my friend, unless intelligent people like you stop being bought off by fancy marble cladding and international 'relevance' we're done for.

The press is already a lost cause; politics is a tissue of lies and the economy is a shell game. Time to wake up and smell the rot before it's too late. I have children - I care about their future.

You're smarter than the elliot/neocon crowd; what happened to your soul?

This system is making things worse - not better and it's doing it fast.

Time for a reality check my friend. btw, I posted the answer to your question about recycling compact fluorescent bulbs on that other thread.

How Big is that Bubble?

We've all been watching that bubble and asking each other and ourselves how big it is and when it might pop. It gets bigger and goes higher so it's difficult to perceive just how big it is because it's farther away. Then it descends a bit, the market levels and it becomes a bit smaller again. We're embarrassed that we are all somewhat preoccupied watching it.

Last week a friend told me that he'd sold his downtown penthouse, was taking off to Europe for a while and would again buy on his return when, he guessed, the bubble will have shrunk or popped. This week, another friend, squirmed at the current size of the bubble and adamantly stated that he will not buy yet because the bubble is unsustainable. He's been saying that for the past five years. Over the past five years the cumulative growth in prices has been almost 100%. He is, of course, squirming in part because to him the bubble has always been just about ready to burst. During that time he's spent over $50,000 in rent and the purchase price of a modest pad has gone from around $300,000 to over $500,000. He could have had a mortgage at historically low rates and therefore paid down a chunk of the principal. His down-payment cash that he's left in the bank has been earning only a couple of taxable points, if he's lucky. To be comfortable now he's yearning for the bubble to go splat big-time and then he'll scoop up the spoils and laugh. Maybe. A substantial rise in interest rates could cause the bubble to pop but then he'll be looking at some big monthly payments in his new mortgage. Had he bought before and built equity by taking advantage of low interest rates and paying down the principal, then a spike in rates might not hurt since he could extend, at worst, the amortization.

It's very complicated, especially while one is waiting to take the plunge. The highest stress has to be for those that just recently bought and are terrified of rising interest rates and for those who yearn for the bubble the get on with it and burst so that they can buy cheaply.

I think part of your problem

Is that you have the wrong sort of friends.

Pardon me while I puke over the concerns you've just expressed above. The real victims of the insanity we're in the middle of aren't so concerned with the sort of stress your friend is coying with.

They have real problems.

No wonder you're so blind to that reality of the way the vast majority of citizens live in this country.

That was the whole point of the analysis you claim to have read and understood.

You can have my tissue (that's right tissue - not linen handkerchief) to wipe the tear that’s running down your well-tanned cheek my friend.

Let me know when you have a grip on reality and you've stopped caressing the Brazilian marble.

Friends

One has worked hard, 3 hour sleeps then back to work, made money doing award winning projects and now working in Europe for a while. He's put his children through school and now sold his home.

The other is a freelancer that rents.

What's wrong with these two people?

They have real problems.

What on earth are you saying? The young guy that's developing his career should abandon it and do what? Stop working and paying his rent? Stop thinking about his future? Stop working hard to develop his client base? Go and be a monk?

What are you getting at?

In a House of Canada context and especially using the allegory

along with the possible metaphor side of your discussions gentlemen..., I find myself wanting to add my thinking of related matters.

The Devolution question which the author raises above along with the '' concerns that are expressed immediately above as to the state of the economy and HOUSING markets per se.., GIVES ME AN OPENING THAT I COULDN'T RESIST.

The thought of what will become of the election coming up on the 26th of March also pre-occupies my mind.

What I find fascinating as I listen to both of you discuss the impending collapse or ..., ever expanding optimism and markets themselves .., makes me want to suggest that we are entering a completely new ENVIRONMENT here! .. *( as in a 21st Century Economic Environment that clearly seeks to create an opening as to ... how we go about doing our business , and how we go about understanding MONEY itself*.

The accelerated paste of KNOWLEDGE itself creates an ECONOMY at both a very Human Scale and at the same time..- as Marshall McLuhan would say - as to the GLOBAL VILLAGE unfolding before our very eyes.., CREATES ALSO A NEW FORM OF ENERGY...,

(IMAGINATION) BEING EVER AND NOW FRONT AND CENTRE AS THE EMERGING WELL OR ( BANK ) IF YOU WILL , OF THE NEXT CURRENCY*

After all money*.., finds it's source and creation from within the very imagination that I speak of.., ( a language by any other mean that found it's place in our tribal earth, from the earliest days of our ability to ... live with a collective imagination ..., finding it's deepest seeds and roots .., from the transition of our nomadic way of life .., to what became our sedentary ability to not only feed ourselves but to in effect , (* collectively ) fend for what we'd managed to build as .., all VILLAGES have managed to build in the short period of our evolution.., as HOMO SAPIENS..

EVOLUTION- DEVOLUTION*.. indeed.., what I'm trying to place in front of you gentlemen.. and Readers in general.., is that beneath all of this battle for our HEARTS and MINDS.., as to near and far elections coming up.. ( the house called CANADA.., is at a very important breaking point .., ( having reached - or should I say survived .. hundreds of years of IMPLOSION , and transformative visions .
To the point of now being at a moment of cusp . Of Eureka.., as to creating a new language of consensus .¸- when it comes to a 21st Century economy*..

Language and Consensus building and ..., an economy ( information barter ).., that will revolutionize the world's understanding of what role money has played in the past and will revolutionize also what role.., the NEW ECONOMY.. ( KNOWLEDGE ECONOMY ).., will play in the unfolding future ..

Thus as a background to all of these discussions.., one needs now to grasp what is actually happening to our NATION, as we enter the seasons and cycles of change..,

Changes that will see our children.., taking on the future language and models of society .., that has , as of yet , to be planted in any HUMAN GARDEN that I can point to.., but our very own garden.

As a NATION.., that is 21st Century bound we are also bound by an emerging experience of the true knowledge economy that is just around the corner..

A knowledge that asks of all of us to grasp it's significance .., that asks of all of us to search deep within our collective imagination.. , to surface..*

A NATION finally that has seen the 21st Century light of knowledge.., , a light that seeks to be acknowledged .., as one of - much like the uncertainty principles of physics have- that we, as individuals and as a collective..,are best equipped with the IMAGINATION .. ( imagine a nation ) ..that will break loose from the chains of a language and an economy that no longer makes any sense..

Our economy will derive from a direct association and linkages to our very capacity to IMAGINE...*. thus KNOWLEDGE (individual and collective ) to be the prime motor of our ''economy''*

This economy will asks of all of us ..to create information banks in our neighbourhoods .., to pool our imagination at city, village and later Provincial levels..,to eventually aggregate at a very highly connected level .., in a NATION state of mind..

In a NATION ..., ( people to people ) economy..,

In a 21st Century energy*..,

more to follow later..*

I await your reactions.. Ladies and Gentleman ..

The fact your friend has 10,000/year

The fact your friend has 10,000/year to spend on 'rent' didn't escape me r/man.

I won't be crying any tears because he can't manage to get his toe into a ridiculous housing market - a lot of families can't find a decent rental flat or basement to raise their kids in at a rent they can afford. Given the kind of sympathy usually extended to the poor and the handicapped, the native and the old around this place by folks like Cappy, elliot and neocons of several stripes I'd be entirely justified in telling him to suck it up and move to Abbotsford. That's the usual treatment sob-stories get around here.

Suck it up!

You're going to have to provide your own tissues this time my friend.

That's the whole point. The system you and cappy and harper and dion and martin support and cheer about has screwed all of us and created a society where the operative ethic is grab what you can before someone else gets it.

I'm shocked someone of your obvious intelligence and sophistication hasn't figured that out before now.

Of course people shouldn't have to put their lives on hold - but that means all people - not just the ones playing poncie real estate pocket pool with the politicians in Victoria and Ottawa.

Did you not sleep well last night? You're usually sharper than this.

10k

$800 a month for a live/work to run his business isn't alot of money these days in Vancouver. No benefits, no vacation, no sick-days, no pension. Plus he has to buy the latest technology to stay viable. He deserves more than a sneer.

but r/man I'm not sneering - read the whole thing again

I am not sneering at your friend.

Read what I wrote again. My sneer was a metaphorical riff on the common reaction around here by folks like, (pardon me, but you are among them and probably the most intelligent of them – which is the reason I focus on you), YOU, who, when others and I have said there is something wrong with the way the rewards and returns for work are distributed in this economic paradigm have been responded to with that self-same kind of dismissive sneer. Surely you remember doing exactly the same sort of thing to me over conditions on Indian Reserves.

When single mothers here or people who have had difficulty finding jobs and a decent place to live and clothes and food and education for their children..or decent affordable child care, .the most common response is that they should move somewhere else. When people talk about conditions in the Maritimes – the most common response ‘Those lazy buggers’; when people in Quebec develop a decent system of child care and women are able to return to work and help contribute to their families and the Quebec economy in a positive way ‘Damn Frogs stealing our tax dollars’; need better health care – ‘Pay for it or wait in line.’ This is the capitalist mantra and, just to be consistent and make a point of the disconnect that exists in people’s minds over such issues, I tried out the cappy/neocon riff on you. It’s not so nice is it? In fact it hurts, it demeans and lessens honest people and their efforts and it makes us a small, mean and selfish people.

I thought you’d get the point without my having to spell it out.

Anyway, you know, if you're an honest man - and I think you are, that this crazy heated up everyman and woman for themselves real estate world-class city if only we had the Olympics bullshit is just that. It's a ponzi scheme for the rich and the privileged few and your friend is every bit as much a victim of this insanity as most people his age trying to raise a family and do a good job and lead decent lives are.

I have every sympathy for your young hard-working friend realisticman but my sympathy doesn't just extend to him - it includes the 80% of Canadian families who are being screwed by a system rigged to advantage the few and take advantage of the rest.

I really hope you're beginning to see the light. Too much marble for some - despite the fact they might build the odd statue - means too little for everyone else.

It's time we all woke up and took a deep breath. This is NOT working and your friend's experience is just another example of the story that CCPA study confirmed.

Welcome to the monkey house.

I think part of your problem...

That was uncalled for. This guy is struggling; I've offered to help him too because I know he would honour a debt. He's the type of friend I like.

Vancouver is rapidly becoming like may other expensive city centres.

If Harper devolves a substantial proportion of tax points to the provinces then the provincial legislators could offer tax incentives to builders of rental housing. The Liberals have always wanted to hold as much tax power as possible so they could always use it to sway both the voters and the provincial governments. I wouldn't be shocked if, one day, Harper were to devolve a lot to the provinces. He gets along well with Mario Dumont and his birth was as the sidekick to Allaire, in Quebec, who wrote the Allaire Report that recommended, to the Bourassa Liberals, that the Federal Government devolve powers in 16 key areas.

I don't understand why nobody mentions the federal tax-encouraged MURB programme. If investors could make the figures work more rental units would be built. Maybe they're not needed in Montreal or Toronto but they are in Vancouver.

As long as we have a market economy, a stable provincial government and Vancouver grows, then home prices will rise, absent MURB-like programmes or substantial densification - or a crash somewhere that reverberates here.

The US just announced housing starts up for the past two months and the Fed said rates will stay low, so the boom goes on, again.

Maybe it'll crash, maybe a government will nationalize housing, maybe...Meanwhile we all grow a little older.

realisticman

Don't you read? I was obviously referring to these 'friends':

Remember?

The point of everything I wrote was very clear and you are way too smart not to have recognized exactly what I was saying.

You may get your figures wrong a lot of the time but you read well and you know the meaning of standard English. You know what a riff is and you understand what satire and irony are all about. No mystery: I was just trying to get your attention.

As I said, I have lots of sympathy for you friend - but not JUST him. I put it this way:
I have every sympathy for your young hard-working friend realisticman but my sympathy doesn't just extend to him - it includes the 80% of Canadian families who are being screwed by a system rigged to advantage the few and take advantage of the rest.

Remember? That’s what this crazy paradigm is doing to us.

The boom, so called, is just another way of pumping more stolen money out of a compromised system you seem only too happy to be a part of my friend. At least until yesterday - when your citation of your young friend's dilemma gave me pause and cause to think that, underneath the capitalist carapace there was still a progressive and compassionate heart.

I can't make it any plainer. Why would I take valuable time to bother 'reasoning' with you if I thought you were no more than another cappy or an elliot or a neocon.

What we are living is JUST NOT WORKING. In addition, it's making things worse for families like your friend's - and for children and for the vast majority of middle class families too.

We are not earning our way out of anything - we are making things, by a factor of a least 20x, worse than they were in the early 70s.

Our culture has bought a skein of lies and it is time for intelligent people like you to get some new friends - cappy and elliot and neocon are pretty typical of the 'I'm all right Jack’ mentality and if you think that's the group you belong in....well - go for it. However, remember what you're doing and whom you're doing it to.

This is no longer a question of something that can just be played back as the politicians fault. We have the messed up, mean, nasty and selfish society we all deserve. Moreover, it is long past time we changed; time we woke up from the nightmare of lies and payoffs.

We're all gonna end up dead one day my friend - it'll be a sad day if folks like you and me don't at least try to change things. That would be a far better monument to the future than any number of marble-clad foyers, statues or works of art.

I'll send you the Singer article. Just give me an email address:

I would like to leave the last word with Richard Warnica

'' So why are we devoting more than our usual resources to this week in Canadian politics? Because today's budget and next week's vote may see not only the triumph or failure of Harper consensus in Canadian conservatism, but also a turning point in the Canadian federation.''

Thanks for a fascinating insight and ARTICLE *

VILLAGE ..,

So why are we devoting more than our usual resources to this wee

SPEAKING OF DEVOTING MORE THAN USUAL OF OUR RESSOURCES..., ( it would be in that spirit that I offer these following observations )..

Just finished a fascinating book on the years of John Diefenbaker as a political force within this country.

I come away fascinated by the details of his life that to this day has escaped my attention...,

There is much to be learned by reading about some of our GREAT LEADERS who dared to step up to the plate.., and attempt to come to grips with such an '' impossible '' country as CANADA .., has come to be.. or is becoming..*..(* according to many pundits who have observed our baby steps to nationhood .)

My take on all matters concerning Canada - including the very matter of DEVOLUTION itself .., such as the above article tackles.., and furthermore , my very own fascination with the IGNORANCE palpable of our vast LANDS..., it's history , it's heritage , it's ROOTS..! brings me to this plea of looking deeper and searching out for ourselves , the history that makes us who we are today.., OUR COLLECTIVE MEMORY IN NEED OF AN INVENTORY , IN NEED OF AN AWAKENING *

Though my thoughts also go to another article written by Rafe , in which he predicts - yawn - once again , the break-up of this country.. *.., I am more interested in the efforts that are on going on a day to day basis.., by CANADIANS and yes CANADIENS* of all stripes who go about building the kind of CANADA that will not only survive the naysayers.., but will eventually thrive , with the innovations that come with a determination and with a sense of destiny also.., indeed let us abandon the negative approach and learn from our ancestors.., by bringing light and hope to our QUEST..

What can each of us do to build the CANADA OF TOMORROW rather then drowning in our sorrow of what will happen if we break apart.. , God people ,get a GRIP ON LIFE .. !

Let keep the candle burning on this beautiful dream of having a homeland that is not only nourishing and plentiful but so vast as to have all of us live out the remainder of our lives.., within our means , within our dreams.., of living out to the outmost of our potential the kind of life we would have for ourselves and our CHILDREN*...

AS to the CHILDREN now.. and the memories we might share with

them...

Speaking of Children.., I came across a fascinating insight into the history of this province that would serve as a reminder of our beginnings.., especially as we head into our 150th anniversary next year..

CHILDREN OF FORT LANGLEY...*... HOW ABOUT A DEVOLUTION to the very memories of each province and it's beginnings !, in a sense of getting at our beginnings as a province., in a sense of our ROOTS*.., and from there we can better grasp the country we've become part of..,

http://www.fortlangley.ca/

I've included certain key elements below that will serve as a window to the next exploration and discovery needed*..

The Fort: little info Takes you to a page that talks about the events leading up to the founding of Fort Langley: the 42 man party who set out from Fort Vancouver in November of 1824 to explore the Puget Sound and Fraser River, and how that expedition led to the founding of Fort Langley.

Recommended Reading, References, and Links: When you click on added here, you'll find book titles and reference material that many of us have used in our genealogical research, along with links to some other forts in Canada and the US. Additions to this list are heartily welcome and encouraged.

Fur Trade Fort Links: Fort Vancouver was the first, followed by Fort Langley, and many other fur trade forts along the Pacific Slope. This contains links to the other fur forts in what was once called The Columbia District, Oregon Territory, and/or Washington Territory. Some of these forts have their own brigade days celebrations, the details of which can be found on their web sites.
Come learn about the pre-history of the Pacific Slope; find out what isn't commonly known about our history.

If you know of a fur trade fort web site that isn't on this page, drop us a line and let us know