A question

If and I stress if, the BC Rail - CN Rail deal is proven illegal by reason of criminal activity (a contract that is fraudulent is no contract at all)does the province of BC get back BC Rail?

Tricky multi billion dollar questions!

As will the BC Rail bomb explode? Not if the Asper press and Bill Borings CKNW have anything to do about it!

Sweep, Sweep, Sweep

BC Rail makes the FastFerries look like peanuts, but where is BC's almight press? Where is the public dismay? Nada. DUI Campbell has the mainstream media in his pocket.

As I said before...

I doubt that there will be a trial given the blatant refusals by the Crown to submit witness lists. This act sounds to me like the Crown doesn't want this trial.
Having said that I now look forwards to when (not if) this trial will be stayed.What can we as a population do to see that justice is done in this case? Can we have a public inquiry? It was done to the feds. Why not here? Anyone?

BCMary

http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

Many thanks to Bill for his continued good work on this file. For more, including updates, stay away from CKNW and tune in to BCMary.

What!?

""The special prosecutor and RCMP have refused to provide this statement, advising that its disclosure would breach the third party rights of this individual and the two witnesses," the defence states."

You are trying to send these two guys to jail, and the prosecution isn't disclosing who gave them evidence? I don't think the RCMP have the authority to promise a witness' identity will remain secret after the evidencec he gives goes to court. The judge can protect his/her identity, but come on. The defense needs to make a defense. This is absolutely ridiculous! Perhaps they don't want to go to court. Sigh ... what a waste of taxpayers money.

Expect fallout either way.

If this doesn't go to trial, what little public confidence there may remain in gov't will disappear entirely. And of course, if it does go to trial, Gordon Campbell and his gov't will collapse entirely,and will be sent to jail, which I've been predicting for years. Either way folks, you're witnessing the collapse of Gordon Campbell and his equally corrupt excuse for a political party. They're going down, and not a moment too soon.

Where is the Vancouver Sun

What an incredible scoop. And where is the Vancouver Sun. Or Province. Or Times Colonist. Or any other mainstream media.... The silence is deafening. So to the Tyee we turn (and other internet services). Thank God. Keep it up folks!

It's too bad the MSM isn't

It's too bad the MSM isn't pursuing this as hotly as it did the Clark backyard deck "scandel"

A state of anarchy

If this mess doesn't go to trial, the public will know the fix is in and that the courts can be bought.

As with yesterday, when Betty K. got 10 months, yet in comparison with sentences for far more serious crimes, 10 months seems onerous, unless the judge was instructed to give 10 months!

It is now a fact that BC Casino's are nothing more than a money laundering scheme for the drug economy. Crime is rife around these places, yet the government does nothing. why? They make money off the deal, just like any pusher or pimp!

How far will BC fall until the public wakes up to the fact we live in a criminal organization.

Parts I - III

Much of the actual content of the first 75 paragraphs of the Notice of Application for Disclosure are already available on Mary's blog. Robin Mathews take, entitled Application for Disclosure publicly exposes highly placed elected officials, is also there and it's a great read too.

Lost opportunities

I'd really appreciate hearing more from you, Grumpy, about the lost opportunities the province has missed by transferring ownership of the 'BC Rail asset' to CN for (net of tax considerations) next to nothing – in my view.

Given a number of other developments that are concurrent with this government's idea of 'doing business' we not only have a railway that is no longer being operated safely - according to a safety audit that only an application under federal FOI rules could pry loose - but we have a handful of poorer and more expensive (not to mention environmentally disastrous) approaches to transportation problems in this area.

I've been reading your posts closely for months and I think that's a fair summary of what you've been saying.

On the other hand, have I not gone far enough?

Defence lawyers also say

Defence lawyers also say Pickton had nothing to do with the murder of the 25 people found on his farm. If a defense lawyer says that it must be true. Everyday defence lawyers file claims that are loosely based in fact in order to try and get their clients off.

Lets take what a defence lawyer says with a grain of salt.

A state of blissful ignorance...

Writes Grumpy.

Only if they 'know' about it!

Clearly the MSM is not talking, nor reporting, nor asking questions, nor paying any attention to this at all.

This means that the 'great unwashed' is being 'taken to the cleaners'.

Where is the 'loyal opposition'?

End party politics, stop voting for anyone flying any party flag, independant candidates only!

At least then we may get to wrest control away from 'special interests'.

just wondering

1)The BCRail purchase was mostly paid for by the $650 million or so it had in deferred tax credits. The taxpayers of Canada covered the Lions share of the purchase. CN received the benefit.

2)The valuation the Gordo officially put out on BCRail was based on the past 10 years recession revenues. With the resource boom, predicted by most real experts, that happened after the sale BCRail's profits alone would have returned several billions. The Sun's financial experts with their journalism degrees somehow forgot to include this in their analysis Ok'ing the deal.

3)Gordo is a school teacher. Gary Collins worked in a restaurant, Kevin Falcon is a real estate agent with an english degree. Carole Taylor has an english degree and has had a career in journalism. There are no Liberals with any medium or large business experience except former RBC Chief Economist and Harvard Business School professor Ralph Sultan PEng who sits on the backbench. Frankly I think Howe Street simply tells the Gordo what to say and do then writes his legislation for him.

Strangely, the NDP's Gregor Robertson is an award winning owner/founder of a medium size extremely successful business.

Fix or just gross incompetance?

Jumping ship

Sounds to me as if the rats are leaving the ship!
Basi and Virk have nothing to loose, and obviously have decided to spill the beans!
It does not surprise me if Gordo orchestrated the so-called negotiations, so that we should believe it was a fair hearing; after all we see it in all his dealings!
Maybe it is time for the opposition to stop being "nice" and begin to play by the same rules that the government does?
oh, and goodbye G West!
It must be difficult for you to have nowhere to spend all your spare time.
Then again, the rest of us will save a lot of time, not having to peruse your opinions in duplicate.

G.West an answer

Yesterday I sent BC Mary, at her invite, my opinions on BC Rail and the Road Builder's Association. There is a whole lot more to BC Rail than selling it to CN at a flea market price.

I think the road builder's Association were afraid of an affordable passenger (6 to 8 daily services) rail service from Vancouver to Whistler, thus money spent on highways would be spent on rail.

We see the same sort of nonsense in the Fraser Valley, where the Road Builder's Association is in for a windfall of new highways construction projects, with Falcon saying there isn't the density for rapid transit.

Fact is, we do not have, or ever did have the density to support a SkyTrain (RAV/Canada Line too) metro service. We have ample density to support LRT operation up to Chilliwack. for the cost of Gateway, we can build upwards of 300 km. of LRT line in the region if we build it smart ans cheaply. In Spain a newly opened LRT line cost under $6 million/km. to build!

The German City of Karlsruhe operates some 400 km. of light rail (well over one half being built since 1993) in a region of similar size and population as the Fraser Valley. The trick to success is track sharing with mainline railways and on-street operation in city.town/village centerers, which keeps total cost down to under $15 million/km.!

300 km. of LRT would cost about the same as Gateway! you can see why the RBA would 'freak' with money going towards rail!

Same is true of Vancouver to Whistler passenger service, $250 million would buy you an affordable downtown to Whistler rail service with an average speed of 80 kph (50 mph)which would be extremely completive with the car. Even AMTRAK was sniffing about for a Seattle or Portland rail service to Vancouver & Whistler! Get rid of BC Rail and the RBA would free of any real 'rail' competition. Sell it to CN which hates any sort of passenger service and viola no competition,for 995 years!

So I leave the rest to BC Mary to tell!

Thanks Grumpy

Much appreciated. It's too bad that the MSM can't manage to put together the blocks that would spell out to a wider audience in British Columbia what's actually been going on in this province. And it is very interesting that none of them have taken the self same information available to people like Bill Tieleman and made headlines of it.

Have you ever wondered why?

It's kind of sad that they have to go to people like Bill Tieleman and BC Mary and Robin Mathews and the Tyee to find people like you who aren't afraid to speak out and help open people's eyes.

Some folks may not agree with the methods some of us use...

I think I can live with that. This is supposed to be 'alternative' media.

The fact that it's less concerned with spin and personalities than the mainstream press is probably a good thing.

I'd suggest that anyone who's been reading closely has been learning something here at Tyee too. Not least about treating folks one disagrees with in a civilized way despite the differences - or similarities in their politics and philosophy.

31% said YES to selling B.C. Rail but 69% said NO.

Yesterday, on the Tyee web-site, someone (G West?) posted the results of a poll. Wish I had noted whose poll it was. But I did take note of the question and the result:

Q. Was the B.C. Liberal government decision to sell B.C. Rail the correct one?

31% said Yes. And 69% said No.

If the respondents had known more about the B.C. Rail-CN transaction, those results would probably have changed drastically.

And yes, Grumpy, this is the heart of the matter:

To get back B.C. Railway is my great hope for this province.

Wasn't me Mary, sorry

Wish it had been.

I was busy at other things yesterday - alas - I'll go and check it out

Grumpy:

I respect much of what you say and submit, and defer to much of your expertise in Transit - related issues..

However, I can't buy ,or even lease ,into a premise that a rail service to Whistler is economically viable or feasible(and also ties into the conspiracy theory with BC Rail ).

We have had BC Rail passenger service before to service the area...did we not?..the Train from North Van ran right up into the BC Interior. If it was economically viable, why would it be cancelled ? BTW :Our family took this same BC Rail passenger train in the past.

The Whistler-istas are not, by and large, going to jump on a train and then weekend up in Whistler, at least not to a degree that the rail service WON"T be subsidized....aka it very likely won't even break -even.

Many Whistler-istas live in the suburbs and will not make transfers to get to a centrally located downtown train to get to Whistler. Its already a long DRIVE to Whistler with a vehicle...they will simply jump in the SUV etc. ....turn the key and ...take off.

Maybe its good the Gov't instead invested in and improved the Sea -to- Sky highway etc. ...so the NDP don't get in again and try and outdo the Fast Ferry Fiasco with another NDP fiasco(redundant).... empty Train effectively going nowhere.

Even the NDP and its supporters would see , or more importantly "perceive" , this Whistler rail service as serving mostly an elite clientele...which is not good for their own NDP interests ,nor any hoped -for NDP support.

On second thought, Maybe it was me.

Was that the Robbins poll?

I only posted it to make the point that the people of West Van were not all that enamoured about the idea of paving EagleRidge Bluffs. Which was something that had been claimed by commenters on the Mair story yesterday

I hadn't read the whole survey and the results for some time.

Glen Robbins polls are always interesting because they cover such a variety of questions.

Was that the one?

This one?

http://www.robbinssceresearch.com/polls/poll_166.html

Sorry no maestro

Actually a downtown Vancouver to Whistler would be feasible, if one kept the travel time and prices reasonable.

The solution was the Talgo 'tilt' train which runs from Vancouver to Seattle. Using Talgo on the run would have cut travel time to an acceptable level, without expensive track renewals.

The same was said for Amtrak reinstating the 'Cascades' service from Vancouver to Seattle in the 1990's. Ridership is at the 90% level an reservation must be made at least 2 weeks ahead of travel time!!

The problem with BC Rail was its 50 year old 'Budd' cars and it's lack of downtown Vancouver service, both could have been overcome with proper investment.

The Entire BC Rail passenger service was subsidized to a tune of about $6 million annually. Compare that with the $200 million+ annual subsidy for SkyTrain! How much will be the subsidy for the Sea to Sky?

With a decent 'rail' service, there would not need the massive improvements to the Sea to Sky as we are seeing today. This is what the road Builder's Association wanted, no competition, while at the same time a massive highways project for their members to feast on!

As for elite clientèle, I understand the Rocky Mountaineer guy is loosing his shirt on the expensive 'Hotel' train service now (or was) being offered.

With the sale of BC Rail we will never know, but certainly a reasonable passenger service would certainly a lot more 'Green' than the highway.

If the RCMP actually enforced the speed on the S to S, a lot more people would have taken the train.

And who is the biggest contractor on the sea to sky project?

I agree with you Grumpy. We know there was a report published, I'll dig it out later, that pointed out exactly how valuable the BC Rail Asset was as a going concern and a vehicle for growth and development here in BC.

I believe it was published in early 2001 but I can't remember if it covered the points you've mentioned.

No doubt the province would have been much better served by retaining the railway and its operations, instead of unloading it for a song and a tax promise to CN - which has, ever since, done nothing but high grade on the tracks and run the equipment, safety standards and its employees - into the ground (and the odd stream or river)..

I'll see if I can dig out the report and have a look.

A 'rail' pipe dream

There was a lot of obstacles to overcome in operating a downtown Vancouver to Whistler 'rail' service and one of the major obstacles was CN Rail on the North Shore.

But with a perfect storm of the Olympics and such, legacy passenger service certainly would have had the politicos move mountains to make it happen.

The Road Builders Association saw this and acted, lobbying the govenment. I am not saying they were the main reason, but one of many reasons why Campbell sold out the BC taxpayer on this most questionable deal.

I'd actually heard that before, Grumpy

It happened to be during a lunch conversation I was having with a couple of high-rent lawyers at the Hotel Vancouver just about exactly two years ago today. Unfortunately, I had nothing more than that to go on and it was a casual conversation so I couldn't really pursue it then. I think there are other ties to Whistler developers and the Olympics as well, by the way…which is why the government is going to fight like gang-busters to deny an eventual inquiry into the sale.

I haven't been able to find the report yet - it may be saved on a backup CD but I will dig it out....so stay tuned.

The big problem right now is the complete incompetence (by design or not) in covering the story.

Grumpy

The subsidy to the Sea-to-Sky highway is quite high - Partnerships BC already noted that building the highway using a P3 cost $45.8 million more in construction charges than if the Ministry of Highways had built it themselves.

Further, the P3 partners have to pay to borrow money at a rate of 7.5%, against the government's rate of 5.8 %. This rate, over the life of the P-3 contract, is taken into account by Partnerships BC when signing the contract, and will cost taxpayers $120 million more (when discounted to current value). Of course, if we didn't build it at all, we'd save the whole $789 million cost of the highway, thus avoiding carrying charges of approximately $59 million a year.

The maintenance contract of about $10 million per year is expected to remain about the same - no net cost to taxpayers.

Thus, when amortized over the life of the contract, the subsidy for the Sea-to-Sky highway will be $66 million per year. The ministry of highways records an Annual Average Daily Traffic (AADT) count of 6600 cars per day, so each of those drivers is being subsidized to the tune of $27 per day.

All figures from Ministry of Highways, Partnerships BC or BC Auditor General ( who did not audit the Sea-to-Sky, but merely provided an "opinion")

Nice ride, dude!

Yep, that's the one ... Robbins Research, Question #13

Thanks, G West. That's the poll, all right. Done by Robbins Sce Research way, way back -- 2 years ago -- in March 1 - 13, 2005.

So I'd love to know how people would respond to that question, if they were asked today:

"Was the BC Liberal government decision to sell B.C. Rail the correct one?"

What people answered bears repeating:

NO - 69% .................. YES - 31%

msm where are you, as this

msm where are you, as this is the biggest scandal to ever hit BC and you CantWest are another big corporate scandal!
What Goes Round etc

A $27 per car subsidy

Interesting post by Zalm, if drivers are being sunsidized by $27 to use the Sea to Sky Hwy., then a $25 to $35 rail ticket would not be out of line. Add the gas used, then rail would be cheaper.

No wonder the RBA would frown on a passenger rail option!

It would be interesting....

It would be interesting to peruse the Elections BC donation list and see if, to whom and how much RBA forked over. Then again I suppose that assumes the info is under their name/ title.

Spiderman

Brilliant!

The best part of this so far seems to me to be Erik Bornmann (Bornnmann? Bornman? how is he spelling his name this week?) hung out to dry by the defence. He was all het up to take his bar and work for McCarthy Tetrault back east when they caught wind of his bar hearing.

Of course, given that sometimes the best thing a lawyer can do for his client is omit a few details, that's not to say Born(n)man(n) wouldn't make a good lawyer.

It's gonna be great when the details start leaking from the defence. All this great stuff wouldn't have started coming out now if they didn't have a weak case. The defense lawyer's best strategy with a weak case is to try it in the media first.

Unfortunately for the defense, Canvas Goebbels Multimedia Misdirection isn't interested in covering anything more complicated than the latest conspiracy theory and cheerleading for the big Oly. This trial won't sell newspapers til the tar and feathers come out.

And it still makes me wonder that if the smoking gun points back from Basi and Virk to Chief Flight Instructor Collins, won't it also point back to IWA 1-3567 President Sonny Ghag?

Note of thanks!

Thank you BC Mary, Bill Tieleman and the Tyee for persuing this story of corruption and malfesance. The establishment press may not be covering it, but at some of you good folks are. You won't be forgotten!

Someone was asking where was

Someone was asking where was the opposition? They tried a number of times in the last few days to get information and Wally kept reminding them the issues were before the courts. It's a standard response and not just the Liberals have used it.
The speaker finally cut off Farnsworth as he decided the MLA was too close to the earlier questions . The opposition has been active but you can't fight the speaker. Let's all cool it for a little while longer. when everyhone gets sworn in, the have a option Lie like Hell or tell the truth. Then we will know as much as the insiders do now. The judge will decide guilt or not.

Maestro

If taking the train is sexy, the Whistler "fashion-istas" will take the train, just like they do in Zermatt. There, in what is arguably the sexiest and most fashionable ski resort in the Alps, you must leave your car some seven miles away in Tasch and take the train to Zermatt. Most of the "beautiful people" take the train first class from Lausanne, Bern or Geneva, where porters and concierges meet them (and their security people, valets and servants) at the station and walk them up to the hotels, chatting them up all the way, priming the spending pump.

This "highway to nowhere" is exactly the kind of fast ferries fiasco most reasonable people were afraid of when the Libs came to power.

Tieleman responds to comments

Thanks once again to those who left kind comments on my article today - I truly appreciate it.

Like most of you, I hope this case does go to trial so that many of the allegations can be tested in court and found true or false.

This is a remarkable case, with tentacles stretching into every nook and cranny of BC politics. If it goes ahead, British Columbia will see a slice of political life never seen before.

zalm

Interesting to see you can't think more than one day into the future. It may not always be the "highway to nowhere". There is a whole hinterland out there to be accessed one road at a time.

If two lanes is good enough

If two lanes is good enough for the Chilcotin, for the south-east, for the Rocky Mountain trench, for Prince George and for Dawson Creek to do the business of the province (move containers, cut trees, mine ores, drill oil), it should be good enough for the hinterland you speak of. A four-lane divided highway over the most difficult terrain in the province that ends at a tourist resort that may not have enough snow to piss on in twenty years is not my idea of long-term thinking.

I'm sure it's not yours either. Welcome to tomorrow - let me know when you get to Friday.

Only one of many possible scenarios.

zalm

You are regressing. There will be expansion in the future no matter what you happen to think might occur. Oh, btw, you forgot the 4 lane highway to Kamloops. If that's not nowhere I don't know what is.

another beauty from david

another beauty from david tieleman. or is it bill schreck? good luck guys. and remember that you're dealing with 'allegations' by the defence.
btw; anyone new to this site should know that 'gwest' has been posting under false aliases and supporting his own arguments with other identities. probably someone you don't want to take too seriously.

Snert

Kamloops is the interchange from Vancouver for outbound garbage and most containers to the rest of Canada, and the transfer point for about 40% of interior dimension lumber and raw logs. It also carries most of the supplies and California foodstuffs to and from the interior and hinterland. It's a natural for 4 lanes. So is the Okanagan valley. There's lots of 4-lane highways in BC. There's darned few built into the side of a mountain range, and none at all that have nearly zero heavy truck traffic on them.

All this is reflected on the BC Highways website where you will find their Traffic Demand Management studies that shows how much traffic uses each of the major roads in the province.

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/trafficData/index.asp

Or how few. 6000 cars a day to Whistler is a pittance. Twice as much traffic goes along 176th past 96th in Surrey each day - that's a candidate for four-laning.

And...

The Pemberton corridor is one of the last places in the province that development will occur on.

I grew up in West Van. I knew Nan Hartwick and her daughter Diane when they were trying to push development in the Callaghan Valley in the early '80s, and they were the second bunch to do so. Everybody's been promising development up there for more than fifty years. Has it happened? Til the Olympics, no, not at all, except at Whistler and the "worker-bee" subdivisions in Squamish and Pemberton.

And how long do you think Squamish will be a desirable place to live, now that FMC/Woodfibre has shut down? Squamish is trying to figure out where to make up 40% of their tax revenue. That's why they tried to attract universities and colleges, recreation centres and anything else that would bring in the people - they knew the mill would leave one day. But now it's happened, and property tax rates are about to increase 50% in 3 years in Squamish. What will that do to property values?

Meanwhile, what's happened up at 100-Mile, Williams Lake, Creston Valley, Okanagan, etc? Steady increases in population, everything from retirees to vacation homes to business starting up. Lots of traffic, lots of business, and best of all, few subsidies and no highways to nowhere!

If you feel so strongly about the Pemberton corridor, why don't you buy some land there?

Or have you already?

False Aliases?

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, Gord.

Steam train.

zalm

The first time I went through "Whistler" was on a steam train after taking a boat to Squamish. The PGE hadn't been completed yet. The next was on Bud Car because the only road into the area was a BC Hydro right-of-way 4x4 only access road. There was virtually nothing there.

There has been a huge change in that area and there is absolutely no reason to believe the growth will stop. It might take a while but at least the highway will be there.

I can't believe the bitching that goes on after the fact in this forum.

As opposed to....

....what, the mainstream media? Every time someone writes up the government for wasting money on anything from P-3s to Olympics to user fees to expanding the Premier's office staff and budget, the BC Fiberals bring up the fast ferries or the mythical deficit as an excuse, and Canvas Goebbels dutifully trots it out on Page 1 as an authentic and definitive factoid from whatever minister is responsible.

I don't disagree there has been change in the corridor, just like the whole province. But what Falcon and Campbell insisted this highway was for was to open up the movement of goods and services, not tourists. And in case you hadn't noticed amongst all the change in the corridor, those are the two qualities that are in shortest supply.

Build it and they will come.

What more can I say.

Kinda quiet

Gee, our right-wing friends seem kinda quiet on this article. Was hoping to read some entertaining defences but instead its same old same old. Even the fast ferries got trotted out. Even though this gov't has pulled the equivalent several times over.

Keep it up guys, I love to see ya so quiet.

Governments are supposed to

Governments are supposed to be the custodians of entrusted, public properties and not their liqudators, without permission from the owners.

The same law applies to all trustees.

What the neocon gang has been doing is selling valuable public properties, without telling the owners what they have sold, what the conditions, benefits and responsibilities are?

The details of the sale of BC Rail to CN is a deep secret and, to the best of my knowledge, anybody who tried to get the details of the contract, under freedom of information, have received a bundle of blank pages to "protect the competitiveness" of the corporation.

This is outright fraud many trustees have gone to jail for, but this gang seems to be untouchable, no matter what secret deals they do, what lies they tell and what they cover up.

Ed Deak.

ZALM and INTRAWEST (FORTRESS)

The Pemberton corridor is one of the last places in the province that development will occur on.

I grew up in West Van. I knew Nan Hartwick and her daughter Diane when they were trying to push development in the Callaghan Valley in the early '80s, and they were the second bunch to do so. Everybody's been promising development up there for more than fifty years. Has it happened? Til the Olympics, no, ...

People need to remember that the Vancouver method of doing business in the real estate business is to essentially restrict the pace of development, thereby contriving relative scarcity and producing higher prices. This can be seen in the Squamish-Lillooet Regional District where there are numerous additional opportunities for recreational developments, including alpine skiing, but others as well, such as fishing, hunting, horse and bike riding, golf, etc., etc.

To pursue a full-out development of this corridor would logically imply a major improvement to Highway 99 not just from West Vancouver to Whistler and Pemberton, but all the way to Lillooet and a new connection to the Trans Canada and Highway 97 at or near Cache Creek, producing a third major highway route in and out of the Lower Mainland and shortening considerably the effective road distance to the corridor's tourism and recreation facilities for affluent travellers from Calgary and Edmonton. Such a development would put the emphasis on what economists call a "quantity adjustment", at the expense of what the current property and business owners really want, which is a "price adjustment". It's for this reason, a calculated desire to underwrite a certain amount of development, but not too much development, that wealthy special interest groups have persuaded the BC Govt to widen and improve Highway 99 only so far as Whistler.

Whenever a competing commercial alpine ski project is bruited, and even when EAO approvals are granted as in the case of Cayoosh Creek, opposition and protest always bubbles up in one form or another. Supported by whom? Obviously, by all those who currently run businesses or own properties, large or small, in Whistler. This is the hardball economic interest group which stands to loose if development is scaled up too much, and which has considerable pull with both provincial and federal governments and politicians, and with the media as well.

Quote:This is a remarkable

Yes, Bill, thumbs up to you; & the same can be said about the Callaghan Valley under the guise of the Olympics & the agenda that has been operating here for years.

"Whenever a competing commercial alpine ski project is bruited . . . . This is the hardball economic interest group which stands to loose if development is scaled up too much, and which has considerable pull with both provincial and federal governments and politicians, and with the media as well . . . . restrict the pace of development, thereby contriving relative scarcity and producing higher prices. You are right on the MONEY, Budd! But there is much more to be revealed . . . .

The B.C. Rail stinky deal, is just part of a bigger picture of corruption by a circle connected by stategically linked people, including key 'Bagmen' & poliitcal operatives that have controlled their "hardball economic interests" for many years: the Campbell Govt. is no more Liberal than the moon is blue - it is the same key players with a different name crafting the big [b]public ticket assets for their own advantage[/b] which includes, B.C. Rail, the 2010 Olympic economic opportunities controlled by Vanoc riddled with Campbell links suppressing the truth/controlling everything to their advantage. Follow the money - B.C. Rail was politically motivated not for the best interests of the public but for this group, the same can be said for the massive highway expansion & Vanoc 'activities' - There is an agenda other than for British Columbians - be certain!

One key factor: this same Campbell Circle have used a circle of land bureaucrats to manipulate the 'corrider' from major ski developments competing with Whistler/Blackcomb, particularly the Callaghan Valley, yes, Budd - to protect their assets in Whistler from real competition to milk their profits from Whistler. Essentially, Whistler was built on the backs of the taxpayers & the Land Ministry senior bureaucrats were deeply invovled with Whistler working with this circle.

These same land bureacrats, unbeknownst to the public at large, have been deeply involved working with Jack Poole & Vanoc controlling access to the Callaghan Valley following the hidden agenda to build one of the largest venues, the Nordic Venue, at massive taxpayer's expense.

Isn't it a riot how Paul Mathews of Ecosign from Whistler got the contract from the land bureaucrats on Vanoc to oversee the Callaghan Valley & stated how wonderful for Whistler to have this for Whistler's/Blackcomb's benefits. Gee isn't this the same consultant hired by Whistler & again by the Land Minstry to do a report against the development of Callaghan Valley as a major private sector ski resort, requiring no taxpayers money?

There is no coincidence about what has happened regarding the Callaghan Valley. I, too, know the Hartwicks, very well. There are stunning confidential government documents which have been suppressed detailing the vested iterests. Justice is being pursued based on the truth.

There is indeed, much more to come.

And Intrawest is not the least of it

Pulling all of this together is going to require a collective effort. Zalm and Grumpy, and not least BC Mary have done a great deal of the ground work. As has Bill Tieleman.

The sacrifice of BC Rail to special interests may be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back.

But the Campbell government is going to fight this in every way it can - because the future of their way of doing things is really going to go on trial here.

The mainstream media just doesn't have the will to cover these matters openly - especially the media people whose loyalty has been bought by the upcoming Olympics. Something Maurice Cardinal has also been emphasizing elsewhere on these pages.

I think these things are all connected - through roads, highways, bridges, ports and Native land settlements.

I think it's time to start putting it all together, don't you?

okay g. why don't you

okay g. why don't you create a couple more aliases and get busy on it?

Callaghan clarification . . .

Clarification Zalm re: your quote:

It wasn't a matter of the Hartwicks "trying to push"; more accurately, the Hartwicks won the final, legal proposal call as the sole proponent to develop the Callaghan Valley. They were shoved out of their position through deceit/abuse of the public trust by political/bureaucratic actions behind secretive doors; a hidden agenda by the land bureaucrats at play under the guise of the Olympics. The Hartwicks are not part of the Circle.

Yes, G West it is "time to start putting it all together" & exposing the cover-up is a good start. Round & round the circle goes until the links are broken.

Ministerial responsibility = resignation

It strikes me that, in the proper British constitutional system which we pretend to but don't actually apply, Collins should now resign having been caught out by a direct falsehood, and also because of the police investigation of him personally that had been going on (which he had denied).

But in the proper British system, Campbell would have resigned because of Maui, the Opposition wouldn't have been humiliated by being shunted aside in House proceedings, and half-a-dozen other major resignations should have taken place by now for one thing or another.

But this is so blatant it's shocking, [I]especially from a Finance Minister[I]. This is the guy in charge of our bond ratings, OK? So to be implicated in influence-peddling, and also not telling the truth to the public about being under police surveillance.....simply his presence in the office could hurt that prized AAA-credit rating the province has finally gotten back (which was WAC's long-standing boast, squandered by his son).

But this is BC, not Britain. Collins and Campbell will continue to "govern as usual" and simple little pittances like observing constitutional convention and protocols do not apply. Those in charge of the rulebook rarely are interested in blowing the whistle on themselves....

further...

Just ask the RCMP ;-)

In fact that there's a conflict-of-interest involving an RCMP investigator on the case brings to mind another RCMP conflict-of-interest affair - Casinogate. Anyone here dare to remember that the investigation of the NBI Casino was instigated by partners in a rival casino, who happened to be RCMP members? And that one of those was Peter Montague, no less?

But this is Canada. The police are a political force in their own right, and obviously have their own agenda (cf. Ralph Goodale), and the politicians don't mind because politically-corrupted police can always be put to use to "get at" the other side, as was done in the case of Glen Clark (and Ralph Goodale).

It strikes me that some factional discord within the RCMP might be behind the ledge raids; given the cover-up of it since by other RCMP than those who did the raid itself. All very curious, perhaps even more curious than the government finagling that was exposed....

"organized crime has reached the highest levels of our society, including the government" is a near-quote from the day of the raids, by one of the Mounties, that rings in my head over this. "Don't steal - the government hates competition" also comes to mind....

and one more cliche

"Government [I]IS[/I} organized crime."

Not sure who that's from - Chomsky? But it seems very apt in this instance....

Aliases

I forget Elliot, is "Elliot" your 2nd or your 3rd alias?

NBI Casino

Skookum1, I never heard that before about the RCMP and the casino connection.

News

There will be, I think, some interesting news on this subject tonight. More later.

The organized crime by

The organized crime by government is chickenfeed in comparison to the globalized organized crime by the multinational corporate mafia, now duly protected, enhanced and legalized by phoney "free trade" deals and the WTO.

Governments can only exploit locally, but the multinational gangs can do it all over the world, including destroying the lives, stealing the properties and killing millions every year.

Ed Deak.

Budd Campbell

Every so often a TYEE comment, or any other for that matter, is amazingly so dam bang-on. Excellent comment.

My view is that we will begin to see much more in the way of corruption on this front..ie Land, Land Shortages and how this is resolved via the vested interests.

Having driven the route from Lilloet to Whistler, via the back door of Cache Creek, this corridor is prime development land within the epicentre GVRD local.

What actual groundwork is being laid as we speak, excluding the Publics' perceptions and propogandized veneers ?

There is an undeniable underbelly in the so-called Planning Dept's relationship to " those that guide their hands ". If one tries and sees how the movers and shakers establish their Turfs and their formal pre - development ownership, the evidence is often overwhelming.

These Land shortages are now reaching overwhelming critical points....and it will get uglier from here on in. With ugly comes a lot more potential for corruption, and with it a need for increased citizen vigilance.

I recently sat through a public meeting to this effect on this basic topic, and when it came time for the public to speak, they shut the meeting down 1/2 hour early immediately after my own choice words and comments were voiced.

Go figure...dam coincidences eh?

ALR

Maestro, is this a way of showing your disgust with the ALR without actually mentioning the ALR?

It is all very nice to speak

It is all very nice to speak about "developments" in outlying areas, but with the economy collectivized and concentrated in a few major cities, what are the people going to do to make a living?

Canada has about 3 1/2 people per square km.
as against hundreds and thousands in other parts of the world.

We also have hundreds of ghost towns and huge areas wide open for the establishment of largely self sufficient, locally based economies, but the powers would never allow it, when they can jam people into cities, where they have to buy everything for survival and jack up the GDP and profits.

Ed Deak.

Dammit : G West is also Generalissimo Frank-owe

Gee " frankly speaking " Frank..are you a d-r-u-m r-o-l-l..." Leftie " ?

How's things in the KGB ?

Dam free speech eh ?
Sorry I didn't put it past you first.

PS Good on ya for your own support of G West's scam. Says a lot for your own agenda and credibility.

Now...Pass the re-fried beans.

Priceless

The man with the baton sez:

Jeepers, Creepers, baton guy, that tells me that you are even more toxic in person than when we're just reading your screed.

And then you say:

So just where is this Dam Free Speech or did you mean damn free speech. As usual, you make no sense.

reply to frank

That would be because the major news sources were busily covering it up, and hounding Glen Clark from office for f**k-all (compared to what Campbell has pulled, for instance). I know I read it in the Straight (probably TG's onetime column titled "Glen Clark is guilty as hell"...), or maybe it was Terminal City. It did make the Sun[/i} at one point, but only just barely. It's one of those topics that the Big Media like to stay away from, especially when they've got a bandwagon of their own to cultivate.

It's one of those typical double-standardidsh hypocrisies in the BC/Canadian reality that there was no parallel investigation of conflict-of-interest within the RCMP over the prosecution of the NBI Casino, and also that there was no investigation of the timing and circumstances of Global's bloodhounds showing up [i]as if they were part of the police force[/i} on Clark's porch.

But advancing a prosecution against a firm that's in competition with another firm operated by your friends [i] and union/professional colleagues[/i} can only be considered an inappropriate use of police power. From what I remember, Montague himself was a Liberal supporter and intended candidate at the time, too, and the casino license he was connected to was therefore suspect. But the Big Media thought it was more important that Clark took his kids on vacation with their friends and their parents.

Clark was vindicated, but the media and the rightist rabble still like to pretend he was a crook; by comparison Bill Bennett was found implicated in securities trading, but he's portrayed now (gasp!) as an elder statesman. Gary Collins can offer benefits, or have his staff do so, and then pretend that everything's on the up-and-up, and that everything is business as usual.

Montague? He was never prosecuted. And he's still a Liberal Party activist. No wonder - "smear campaigns are our specialty" might just as well be the motto of the Grits as it was of the Mounties during Gustafsen Lake when he made that unfortunate quip.

The fault in this? Not the RCMP, who after all are just watching out for their own asses, knowing that they can get away with whatever with the right combination of press releases and looking the other way:

The fault is that of the Big Media, who do not have an honest bone in their body and are always on marching orders from their publishers. If they were doing their job as the Fifth Estate is supposed to (or is it Fourth Estate? I'm losing count...), they would have given equal time to the RCMP's prosecutory finagling and involvement with rival casinos, and you'd know more about it.

But similarly, if the Big Media had been doing their job, you'd know that the "smear campaign" surrounding Gustafsen Lake also deliberately concealed disresputable and aggressive behaviour by Lyall James and his Montana cowboys, who rode herd on the Sundancers with gunshots, bullwhips, and shouts of "red niggers". The Sundancers were portrayed as bullies and terrorists, thanks to the RCMP media campaign that kept the truth about Gustafsen Lake buried.

If the Big Media were doing their job properly, we wouldn't have to wait for the court to let us have access to public documents, and there'd be investigative reporters circling like sharks around [i]every[/i} government deal. Instead, the Big Media here are still allowing their columnists to rant about dead issues like the Fast Ferries, and raving about what a great job the Liberals are doing with the economy (such as keeping the realty values in this false economy so bizarrely overheated).

So I can't blame the RCMP; they're only taking advantage of the very long leash the Media and the Politicians have given them, including the "national icon" stuff and all the hand-wringing when one of them gets shot for some procedural stupidity (as at Mayerthorpe). And while the media [i]seem to be giving them a hard time over the Vanderhoof and Houston shootings, at the same time they're fielding lots of "positive" stuff on the Force or its members. It's all a game, and rather a sickening one...

But yes, there's more to Casinogate than CanWest Global - or the RCMP - want the public to know much about.

He doth protest too much

Maestro my good man, I'll take that reply as a yes, its still all about the ALR isn't it? That's why you attend those meetings, correct?

Why don't we take a poll? I'm going to go out on a limb and say the people will find me guilty as charged.

Good, we shot another journalist today. How's things with you in the SD since the big crackdown in '45?

The damn free speech is even worse.

Try to remember to do so in the future buddy, I hate being out of the loop.

Doesn't it though? He told me about half a year ago at least. And I take it you still support Elliot and IAMC and Cappy for their multiple personalities? Among many others.

I prefer ground beef in my burritos

Update

For the latest from Madame Justice Elizabeth Bennett's court room - check Bill Tieleman's blog tomorrow morning.

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com

Interesting developments in court today.

Oh hi maestro

How's tricks?

Rail Service in the US

was deliberately compromised in the 50's to force people to use Eisenhower's wet dream called the Interstate Highway System. Ford, Chrysler, GM didn't mind that multi-trillion dollar subsidy at all....

PS

When the Speaker of the House told the NDP to shut up over the Ferret-Collins fiasco, they did. Now why is that?

skookum1

Thanks skookum1. There's no doubt you're the go to guy on anything to do with BC, a veritable gold mine of information. If you ever publish anything I'm buying a copy :-)

Jimmy Hoffa: aka G West

I'm not sure how tricks are....why don't you ask tricks yourself on your own behalf?

WTF happened re: "a Link", where's the link you usually provide G West, miilions are waiting.....you are slipping...let me rephrase that..slipping more than usual.

kootcoot

Was that you sitting next to me at the same meeting ?

Sorry we had to call security...even though the ladies were pointing and laughing...we won't go into why...for legal reasons.

I think you have snuck by the TYEE editors..weren't you recently BANNED from the TYEE ? Hey, but I was the first one in your corner on the Free Speech facet.

However all bets are off re : all the rest, you clueless d*psh!t .

Frank:

No, it wasn't re: that, not directly anyway.

But good to see you back to old form...dissecting the quotes and rebutting each one individually.

Frank..what? G West told you about the scam 1/2 a year ago? And not the rest of us ? Frank this is terrible...do you know that you may now be deemed a confessed accomplice ?

So Frank, while the TYEE quasi- Spanish Inquisition is going on...what other multi -TYEE personas are out there? ..let er rip ! We need to clean up the TYEE . You and I are about the only honest ones left...err let me rephrase that comrade....the only honest ones " remaining ".

C'mon Frank, don't disappoint us.

I never mistook you for an honest man

Honest!

If you paid a little more attention to what goes on around you and spent a little less time on bafflegab you'd be surprised how much more you'd learn.

I told you everybody knew. Except you characters from the far right wing. Too much navel gazing I guess. And too busy calling people names and hiding from the truth.

Thanks to Budd Campbell and

Thanks to Budd Campbell and secondlook for thoughts on the Callaghan valley. It's important to remember, though that there was no proposal call by Vander Zalm until the project had been pushed for about ten years prior, starting in Bennett Jr.s time. By the Hartwicks. Using every trick in the book.

Sure wish I could find my old diaries. The Hartwicks were the second lot pushing development there. I can't remember who was first.

Jimmy Hoffa aka G West

Truth Eh?

Sure. Let's go for it.

How about you first? ...Mr. Man of a thousand faces and farces.

It's becoming clearer and clearer why you had multi - personas...you let it slip months ago. I hope the others don't fall for it. Thats why true conspiracies often fail, they have to be 100% air tight with perfect memories. You seem to have " forgotten" that.

You are appearing less and less immortal and more and more punch drunk. ALSO: Quit the "ad hominem attack" accusation crap, YOU were G-U-I-L-T-Y of a classic one way back, of which the TYEE editor actually had to intervene big time.

Why don't you point out where I have stated an UNtruth, or was dishonest, or lying, or that I have another TYEE identity. (Also,please note: disagreeing with the Leftie bible and subjective Leftie rhetoric is not applicable to the aforementioned).

START THERE .

PS Truth oozes out daily Jimmy/G West...too bad I feel less and less pre-disposed to share many of " my own notes " . That's my own editorial "right".

Carry on.

...So, when are you going to

...So, when are you going to say something, apart from repeating time worn slogans and calling names?

Ed Deak.

BEING DEROGATORY TOWARDS A PEOPLE

FRANK
Psst, I heard that "woody" is from the
--------- and speaks perfect ---------
THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED FOR DEROGATORY TOWARDS A PEOPLE. Frank, YOU ARE ON NOTICE TO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS SUBSTANTIVE AND FREE FROM SUCH DEROGATORY REMARKS. -- TYEE EDITOR

Quote:But good to see you

Thanks, and at least no one will ever accuse me of misquoting them :-)

great, get that kangaroo court revved up, I'm in. And ya, G put his email address up here all the time. First time I contacted him he told me about "Alcibiades". I already knew anyway since it was so friggin obvious to anyone paying close attention. I just didn't know the why and he explained that to me and I understood his reason because I was in that discussion where he did it.

Elliot is also Nemesis and I think he was also an old poster named "Sir John A" but he denies that. Cappy is also MabellBC. IAMC used to post under the name Ron Erwin, was kicked off by the Tyee and yet returned under his new handle. When I called him Ron he didn't deny it.

There are a few others I'm not positive about such as taxcutter99 so I'll let it go for now.

I am also "FrankOnHolidays". I am NOT "Frank2" although he seems to be a fine chap so I don't care if anyone thinks we're the same poster.

But I have been accused myself of being both "allan" and "grub". Two gents I wish still posted here.

Big Difference

Cappy was never kicked off. I posted a message telling everybody I was going to change my handle and identify myself. I did. I made it very clear that I changed my name to avoid confusion.

People kept confusing me for a "she". I didn't have too much a problem with it other than many on this board kept emphasizing she!

Once logging in as capitalism, I have NEVER posted under my old handle.

Allan, Grub and the Brain

All of Garth's other handles.

Frank, explain to me why this was acceptable?

Frank Until I feel better

Frank
Until I feel better this will have to suffice, unless of course the HEAD SPRING SALMON feels different about it.

Ah well

Sure beats talking about the issues. And treating everyone with some respect and decency.

Which was the point all along.

Thanks for the underline guys.

Now, have all of you seen Mark Hume's story in this morning's Globe and Mail?

Full story: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070308.BCVIRK08/TPStory/?query=mark+hume

'I told you everybody knew.

'I told you everybody knew. Except you characters from the far right wing. Too much navel gazing I guess. And too busy calling people names and hiding from the truth' this fool actually expects people to believe this crap. isn't it incredulous that the editors fell for his garbage and let him continue to post. so much for this website. i guess as long as big labour and the ndp foot the bills they'll justify just about anything.

Thanks El

You keep proving my point with such poignancy. How do you think the Canucks will do tonight?

Love Handles

Cappy, I already gave you a pass on another thread about your handle. I remember you saying you were doing it.

Now in G's case he would say something "blah blah and blah"

and then 5 posts later on the same thread Alci would say "As I said above, blah blah blah".

It was friggin obvious. And G is not "allan", "grub" or "brain". For one thing I know where those 3 live and they are nowhere near G's place in Victoria.

Now again, why didn't you guys have a problem with Ron when he was kicked off the Tyee and came back under the name IAMC? I didn't hear you and nightbloom raising so much as a finger in protest.

Or Elliot not telling us he was also Nemesis until I asked him directly. Like G, he admitted it. As far as I care that's the end of it. I don't still go on about Elliot/Nemesis and possibly "Sir John A".

woody

You're kidding right? What thread was that on?

Acceptable?

His reasoning for creating Alci was acceptable. His continuing use of the name was not although that's mitigated by the fact he was very open about it to anyone who asked.

Do you disagree?

just checked my email

Not a single note from anyone.

If anyone wants a further explanation - although I think I've provided one more than adequately and more than necessary detail - you know how to reach me.

garthwest@hotmail.com

David Beers felt that posting under two names - even if both took exactly the same point of view and attitude in every case - was still an attempt to build a false consensus.

I thought it was an interesting point but I'd say - given the kind of reaction I've seen - that it hasn't achieved that very effectively.

The whole point was to try and get people to engage in actual discussion and not throw verbal and personal and hurtful bombs at each other.

If I've ever done that to anyone, I'm sorry.

For attempting to get people to actually talk to each other and respect the fact that folks with different opinions can behave like civilized beings (even though we are, almost all of us, both anonymous and pseudonymous) I plead guilty. G West and Alcibiades – never anybody else.

I never intended to do it for more than a year. I've kept extremely detailed records of that period and, I'm seriously thinking of writing a book about the experience.

If I do, I hope you'll all buy a copy.

Ah...what the hell, Frank.

See, you are the only Left of center I can remotely trust and also get a straight answer.

In spirit of G West......You can contact me at

DAVE

or

LeftieReHab@telus.net

or

www.GlenClarkinHell.com

or

Frank3@telus.net

PS. If you get a busy signal keep trying

Is this on?

Somehow I doubt those would get me in contact with you maestro :-)

My email

And if anyone wants to contact me, my email is

FrankIsSortaHere@yahoo.ca

I tried for an email at the Daily Worker but it was a no go.

And I'm already on the mailing list of a certain Nigerian businessman with banking problems so I don't care if I get spammed.

To : Volvo Lux

Volvo -Lux:

Now Ted....

The Leftie subjective -truth washer usually has various settings for the spin cycle...

However, is beating a dead horse an SPCA offence ?

You've made your many good points...I think most of us get a feel for where they come from, why they come from there , and where they are going in the future .

We will consider them as food -for- thought and part of the bigger picture in many TYEE discussions.

Have a good one.

Frank # 1 :

I said keep trying..let me know when you get through.

FRANK: I thought you said you were once in the military, C'mon..p-e-r-s-e-r-v-e-r-e...didn't they teach you that in the military?.

The 10000 th attempt on the 1 ST link or 3 RD one will have your name put in a lottery to win a permanent time share in a Socialist (aka Leftie)Country of your choice, ....no, actually OUR choice..at least one -way air fare.

(NOTE FINE PRINT: you have to pay the GST, PST, Fuel surtax, Airport fees...etc. etc. but then it goes into the good old Gov't General Revenue...a worthy cause, ie for Lefties to plunder.

PS G West flies free, and will regale the lucky winner with old posts and links, and what he has been doing since 1975...all those "Hoffa as part of Detroit products" rumours...what a crock.

E Mail

Thanks for your e-mail fellas, but I have no interest in contacting you. For obvious reasons, I'd prefer remain anonymous and I don't want G West knowing anymore about me than he already does.

As for you G, if I ever saw any evidence that you tried to spur meaningful debate through your little sherade, I'd give you some credit. You are not BC Mary or Fait Lux. You're not even Frank. You've been the biggest provoker of crap on this site and most will agree.

Go look at the last Glavin thread. Issue based discussion - thanks to you not joining the discussion.

If indeed IAMC is the re-birth of Ron Irwin - it is still not the same. He never took two different handles, at the same time, and used them to feed off each other.

Frank, Alci once commented to me that, and i paraphrase "not that I need to defend G West, but everybody knows his name is Garth, not Gavin or Garf" - something to that effect. I don't care to find it, because I don't want to waste any more time on his sherades.

Military lessons

Yep, I think it was right after our "shoot to kill" lessons and our "learn to carry your own weight" for 20 miles lessons. (Actually its called "shoot to live" in the Cdn military but its the same as the British "shoot to kill" program).

C'mon, Cuba or Sweden is fine with me for a few weeks next Christmas, my calendar is open. Otherwise I'll be back in Saskatoon enjoying the lovely -35 at that time of the year.

That is the problem with capitalist paradises isn't it? They like to claim low income taxes but the user fees and nickel and dime taxation just grinds you down...

Cappy

No problem Cap but its there just in case anyone wants to say something to me without having to join the Tyee or post it publicly. I promise I'm not trying to go out on a date with ya :-)

Its not exactly the same (what ever is?) but he didn't tell us either. And neither did Elliot.

But as long as the person doesn't deny it, and Elliot and G didn't, I have no problem with it.

Banning

And by the way, rather than worrying about someone's handle I think people should be banned for making outrageous personal attacks like taxcutter99 did on aalborg. Or his calling 12 year old girls "sluts in waiting". Or for all his other attacks on women (and there were many). Yet he wasn't banned nor were his posts deleted.

That is where if you guys had joined me in demanding the guy being banned immediately (and I rarely call for editor intervention) you would find me more sympathetic when you ask me for support on your personality issues.

Capitalism

Did you want to be reminded of this?

From the premier's shares thread.

I thought we'd settled this then and decided dealing with ideas and issues was the real deal.

Was I mistaken?

I think I will write that book.

How'd you like to be labelled - Cappy or Mabellbc?

You'll get at least a chapter - maybe a whole section.

And, isnt' it interesting

not one line appeared in any of the 3 big CanWest dailies today about the latest chapter in the BC Rail case

"CanWest? Yoo hoo? Are ya there, CanWest?"

Has anyone seen any mention today in either of CanWest's 3 big B.C. daily newspapers concerning the events which occupied 90 dramatic minutes in B.C. Supreme Court Room #73 yesterday? Anything at all?

Madam Justice Elizabeth Bennett, presiding at a pre-trial conference on 7 March 2007, said significantly: "The public interest in having this case heard outweighs just about everything else."

She also said, following discussion among the judge and counsel, that - apparently because of the public interest in this B.C. Rail trial - all documents not under publishing ban will be available upon request from Criminal Registry (perhaps for a slight fee). Madam Justice Bennett graciously opened up scrutiny of documents concerning this trial ... remarking that there is a presumption in the law of public access. CanWest, please note.

Well ... I've got news for CanWest. The B.C. Rail case is inching toward trial. It's a trial which will shake the very foundations of our province. CanWest: this is news. Big news.

Something from a friend of mine. Just thought I'd share it with you, since, as Cappy says - his real interest is dealing with the subject matter of these Tyee stories.

Let's get back to it.

Frank:Nice to see you back in fine form

Congrats and welcome back Frank....

BTW: the other dual + identity "non-simultaneous" ones never denied it, at least in my recollection. Most certainly it was duly mentioned by others on the TYEE.

Name changes are legal and proper...ie Identity " A " now retires itself and NOW becomes identity " B ".

Maybe Ron took the same advice I just gave Truman today.

It's when one plays BS games with simultaneous multi identities...and other than Ghost Writers or nom de plumes... that is rather illegal in the REAL world , isn't it?

Remember "Warren Betanko"...whats the difference? ...or should "Warren" be re-instated as a Vancouver Island MLA ?

Keep your own nest clean, Frank, just some good advice.

Frank ,Frank, Frank,

Problem with the TYEE is when you draft a comment, the spy satellite is down at times, and one cannot see what others are thinking ,typing and sending until after your own TYEE comment is posted.

Regardless,and that said,Ya spilled the beans Frank ,... Uh Oh...I kinda suspected it all along.

PS I can see this is gonna be a FAR bigger mess on the TYEE than originally thought.

Maestro, Maestro, Maestro,

k

Throw me a bone, what are you talking about?

Legal and proper

I would disagree, they're only "legal and proper" if you tell us. As Cappy did.

Frank:

I'll save the bones for the dog I don't have.

PS: Maybe think about your more recent posts. Why is the cyber- DNA attached ?

Sorry, but I will NOT go any further at the present time.

Carry on.

I've seen enough...

maestro has a fever. And the prescription is more spin. He's hot to prove he's not insane, but the evidence has clearly shown dysfunction beyond repair. You're getting more negative press around here than Can West!! Please continue, there's a crowd gathering now...

Cyber-DNA

What's cyber-DNA?

Club-sky

Hi G West JR:

Howzitgoin'?

A chip-sky of the old block-sky eh?

This is rich!

I think you need to answer Franks question. What is cyber-DNA? Anything to do with the missing strand from your own collection?

Frank:

Sorry...maybe in the future.
Think about it a bit more.

This is getting real interesting from here on in.

Aha:

Aha :

It's obvious now:

Frank = Clubofrome (the typing Pet Rock)

.....BUT does Clubofrome = Frank ?

Experiment.

In the search for scientific truth. Lets conduct a little blind trial. Lets have GWest, Frank, Truman, clubofrome... I mean me... (Oops)... and everyone else too, all post at the same time. Ladies and Gentlemen, synchronize you watches.... Everyone prepare your message and hit post at 1500, today, March 8th, 2007 on this thread. Remember wear protective goggles and don't look directly into the monitor. There should be a bright white light, DO NOT GO INTO THE LIGHT! If this works we may just have stumbled onto the secret of cold fusion...

Doug Walls

Just learned that Doug Walls has been sentenced to 2 years less a day - conditional time in the community - not in gaol.

Kind of interesting in relation to the crime and what happened to Betty K the other day, innit?

When those streams cross, in the immortal

words of Dr. Peter Venkman, Dr. Raymond Stantz or was it Dr. Egon Spengler - that would be bad.

1500 you say?

1500 is 3 O'Clock maestro...

Did we miss anyone?

The rule

That's the "premier's brother in law" rule G. In English common-law it goes back to King Richard I believe. For the Betty K types its the Tower I'm afraid.

Collector

Hey G, is it just me or does maestro remind you of someone who collects spores, mold and fungus?

Miss anyone

Yes, anarcho and lynn and Zalm and brain et al.

I also want to announce I'm thinking of changing my handle to Alcibiades to brighten things up around here and because I always had a thing for Athenians.

land hoarding to keep prices high

Maestro:

Having driven the route from Lilloet to Whistler, via the back door of Cache Creek, this corridor is prime development land within the epicentre GVRD local.

Well, for one thing it - the Lillooet-Cache Creek corridor, or the Lillooet-Lytton or Lytton-Cache Creek one, doesn't have much water, and for another a lot of the used land you see is either grazing lease (Crown or ultimately native title, perhaps, once the dust settles) or Indian Reserve. Yes, the Fraser (and Thompson) are right there but it's the pumping expense that has inhibited agriculture in that area; Lillooet used to have major market gardening as an industry, as well as orcharding, but because of water rights and pumping cost that's all gone by the wayside; also because alfalfa became the mainstay crop, as well as more recently ginseng. Lillooet itself is developable, particularly East Lillooet (which, in order to develop, needs better water from the east side of the river, as the wells and springs on the west side are highly mineralized. Brown, in fact, and stinky...

That wsn't the point of my response, though. I just wanted to throw in two bits about Whistler's control of its own land supply, which is openly debated there from time to time. That is, in terms of how to keep realty and land prices high while making more land available. This is also why Whistler has opposed independent development in the Whistler-Pemberton and Whistler-Squamish stretches, notably a recent effort to get a workers' townsite outside the RMOW in the Green River area, that would be outside the control of the compact between realtors and municipal authorities that has turned Whistler's expanse of "swamp, rocks and rain" into several (dozens?) of billions of property value.

Lillooet and the other communities up the line dread "Whistlerization", and I can guarantee you the Lillooet Tribal Council will oppose it tooth and nail....

Me=Club

You caught me, I'm ClubOfRome too. It was so obvious, we both like dolphins after all. Can't believe no one spotted it sooner.

Unfortunately my alter-ego split from me due to a bad experience with Red Kryptonite and now he's a separate entity. Its all been very depressing for me and I wish you hadn't reopened that wound.

Frank=Me

I've always wanted to say, "let me be Frank here..."

Now that was funny... :-)

Is it possible for JIm, sdGreen, NoLeftNutter, neocon and poindexter to all post at the same time because they all have a similar style of writing and the same world-view.

I'm pretty sure there's only 2 or 3 persons behind those handles.

I'll be blunt...

That's exactly what I was thinking 2 minutes ago!

Systems Check...

Switch to CRM114 code descrambler, pre-ignition: green; spell check on...

T minus 4 minutes...

Switch to auto mode...

Nirvana....

One with the universe at last! Wow, look at the colours!!

Doug Walls?

No Jail time in Fraud Scheme
Mar, 08 2007 - 1:10 PM

VANCOUVER - There will be no jail time for two men involved in a million-dollar cheque-kiting scheme in Prince George.

Doug Walls and Mike Millard have each been sentenced to two years less a day to be served in the community.

Justice Patrick Dohm noted extensive letters of support for both men, and the fact they did not receive any personal gain from the fraud.

Back in the late 90's, the two men engaged in a cheque-kiting scheme in a failed attempt to save Walls' Prince George Ford dealership, which employed about 140 people.

The scheme cost C-B-I-C over one million dollars.

Walls was at one time president of the Prince George Liberal riding association.

He was also involved in a separate controversy involving contracts with the provincial government while he was the interim head of Community Living B-C.

- CKNW

Who do you suppose wrote those letters of support?

Betty K should have defrauded Eagleridge Bluffs I guess - next time she'll know better

Elliot...

Way back when weren't you "the punisher" or was that someone else? Woody, maybe? Let's all 'fess up now. I've always been me or do you think I'm BCMary or redrivergirl or Lynn or...?

The Punisher!

That's right! I recall the Punisher and you know he did have the same style as Nemesis! He didn't stay long though.

Hmm, could Maestro be the new edition of freebc?

freebc

Spend much time in Vanderhoof these days maestro?

Maestro = freebc?

Maybe or maybe he's the punisher they shared similar "gotta go" writing styles or maybe....?

blonde; gwest is

blonde; gwest is desperately trying to deflect criticism by claiming that changing your alias is the same as posting simultaneously with multiple aliases and supporting your own arguments. what he did was deceitful and underhanded. he knows it but won't leave this site b/c he has nothing else to do and it has become an unhealthy obsession to him. i seem to remember the punisher being quite over-the-top-rude and in fact admonished him one time. i suspect he was sanctioned by the editor. as for you, i know there could only be one blonde pitbull.

Message from above...

It's true Frank, there are Dolphins in heaven!

Frank, you remember the punisher?

He promised me "the other half of the story" on how the Auditor General could say the NDP had a "true" 1.3 Billion (minimal fed handout)surplus but the Libs claim of a 5Billion structural deficet was correct. Promised me he'd tell me May 18/05 (day after the election ). Never came back. Broke my heart.

Good point BP

You're right, the "gotta go" thing was definitely a maestro-Punisher thing, not a Nemesis-Punisher thing.

Hmm, curiouser and curiouser

El

I'm not desperately trying to do anything El. Never have been. I don't get angry. And I try not to get knocked off the puck either.

But I don't like bullies and people who do nothing but bash around in the corners with a high stick. Moreover, that's what you've been up to as long as I've seen your play here at Tyee.

C'mon, pick yourself up off the ice and get back in the game.

You must have one good idea left. That one you posted on the farm accident story wasn't too bad. You made a valid point about how things weren't always better a hundred years ago.

I agree with that. Now lets see what else you can come up with.

And I'm a great admirer of Blonde Pitbull.

Only one Blonde Pitbull?

Love you too, Elliot, awww shucks I'm blushing, but while I can claim to be unique I honestly have to say there's lots more pitbulls (blonde, brunette or redhead) out there you just have to come out to the wild side -Whalley, Downtown Eastside anywhere you gotta fight just to keep eating.

And that other post

The one about convicted sexual offenders who have served their time and are trying to adapt to life on the outside again (on a kind of permanent parole actually is what it amounts to) ...

Well, your point about that was pretty much on the money too.

Credit where it's due my friend.

G West

I hope you didn't hurt your face trying to keep it straight as you said that.

But I don't like bullies and people who do nothing but bash around in the corners with a high stick. Moreover, that's what you've been up to as long as I've seen your play here at Tyee.[b]

Dolphins in heaven...

In my next life I wanna be dolphin...just about as smart as humans(probably smarter- its just humans have egos that stop them from admitting it) without all the petty crap our species puts out. Clubofrome do you see any pitbulls or do you think I'd have to give up biting all the righty asses to get in?
GW I'm a great admirer of yours- no matter who you post as.

T'anks m'dear

It is my great pleasure - it'll be G West all the time from now on...for anyone who wants to follow

I hope there's room for a fella like me up there with those dolphins Club.

I told you crossing the streams could be dangerous.

How are we gonna get along without you?

Interesting & Obvious re: Doug Walls

GWest, I, too am rolling my eyes at the light sentence handed Walls - surprised? No. He is related to Gordon Campbell ~ long arms & all that rot.

I repeat: the tentacles of the B.C. govt. reach into the justice system - regardless of Party & depending on what the issue is. If anyone really believes our courts are not political they are living in la la land'.

'The Government' will protect itself at all costs by withholding potent evidence against themselves; it's called extensive redacting & "hide those files as fast as you can!" If the Judge agrees to these 'pathetic offerings' the taxpayers are at the mercy of the particular Judge & in most cases Democracy has suffered. Been there - seen that; first hand.

Never forget: Judges always have to consider BIG PROMOTIONS that are coming down the pike & whether it is in their best interests to act with honour on behalf of THE RULE OF LAW. Things can get mighty hot in the Law Courts kitchen behind the scenes.

Reading BC Mary today, so far Judge Bennett seems to be a decent human being - perhaps she puts more value on her personal reputation more than succumbing to nudge, nudge, wink, wink from political linkages on high. The 'jury is still out . . . Please keep on the straight & narrow, Judge Bennett - it is good for the soul & you will be loved by us average taxpayer sick of 'government by corruption'.

CanWest is possibly hiding under the bed

Here's Bill Tieleman with the shocking tally. Not one of CanWest's big B.C. dailies, carried yesterday's news of the B.C. Rail pre-trial conference. Bill writes today in 24 HOURS:

Disappointing to discover that just 5 newspapers in British Columbia bothered to report on the latest developments in the trial of David Basi and Bob Virk, two former provincial government aides charged with breach of trust.

My own newspaper, 24 hours, ran my report from the BC Supreme Court hearing Wednesday, the Globe and Mail ran a report by Mark Hume, who was also there, and the Kamloops Daily News, the Nelson Daily News and the Prince George Citizen ran stories written by Canadian Press reporter Camille Bains.

This according to an InfoMart database search of newspapers conducted this afternoon.

That means neither the Vancouver Sun, the Province nor the Victoria Times-Colonist reported that the most important political criminal trial in British Columbia has been delayed again, or that serious questions were raised about the evidence and about the lack of public access to court documents.

I am also unaware of any radio reports based on reviewing BC radio websites but the story may have been broadcast without being posted on their sites.

One can only hope that this omission by so many prominent media will be corrected shortly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Many thanks, Bill.

Paradise for Conspiracy Theorists

When will you lefties not learn that the most likely explanation for something is usually the most obvious one?

In this case, what we have is 2 individuals charged with impersonating the Congress Party. Meanwhile, the prosecutors play one rat against another, earning valuable (though not necessarily reliable) testimony.

That's the whole case in a nutshell. All the rest of the conspiracy is a figment of your leftist delusions.

you might want to expand your reading material a little

The prosecutors haven't even been heard from yet.

That's one of the problems. If you think the fruits of wiretap surveillance is the same thing as impersonating someone, you have a good deal to learn about the law. And, from all appearances, the rats are on the other side of the velvet rope.

Try this:

http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

If you've been relying on Canwest Global it's no wonder you're so confused...'Congress' party indeed. Actually, that is a good name for the BCLiberals.

Nothin' leftist about that either.

Martin

G, Martin never got over Clark not being jailed for having a deck.

Oh!

He's one of THOSE.

Thanks Frank. I have so much to learn.

Dammit:

Amazing cluster of like-minded given the aforementioned posts.

Go figure ! especially the odds, probabilities and timing .

NOTE: Like- minded = passing around the one "L--tie" brain.

"Ring around the punch bowl";

As per usual, the L--ties huddle around with sharp elbows and enforce their self -deemed rights to entitlement.

( However, must be some primal response, no one else wants it. Recent discoveries show ancient evidence of the genesis of L--ties...more later) .

Regardless,The plot thickens and the truth oozes out.

PS Blonde PitBull, nice to see you again dear. Whenever you enter the TYEE scrum, I often think of a "CHEERS" character.

Pit Bull HAS BAD DOG BREATH

BS, Blonde PitBull, whenever you enter the TYEE scrum, I think of a snarling dog with bad dog breath, skidding her arse across the white carpet floor.

Woody:

Friendly advice:

Careful the Dog Owners mafia (....you know, the ones who carry plastic bags , let their dogs crap , make sure no-one is watching and then take off )doesn't complain and have your comments censored for racism.

Don't say Fr_nch poodle, G_rman Sheperd, Bl_ck L_brador, N_foundlands.....or Cl_bofrome in heat, or at least trying to .

They are usually the ones that walk past homeless people on their way to the Vet to drop $1500 to get the mutt a manicure, then rant on the TYEE about how sick society is.

BTW Some cultures eat dogs...and that's not racist.

WOODY,NOT A FAVORITE SON

maestro , I realize what your alluding to, but after all that has taken place here on this site lately Im not to concerned, If the Head Spring Salmon gets his lather up, and gets upset over a tongue in cheek remark such as that, so be it, I suppose, if I get the boot, I could adopt one of those Nom de Plumes that were recently dropped, but then I may be getting much to close to the home plate. If you get my drift.. eh

Skookum 1

Skookum 1

Good points on the development potential:

I am more of the view that you can build just about anything- anywhere, for many reasons, technical or otherwise, ..its potential is simply buffered by the stroke of a pen. (One should see what they are doing in DUBAI...)

However, given the very recent news about Translinks' new expanded jurisdiction , it will spread its tentacles all the way EAST to Hope, and also up past Squamish into Pemberton,so what IS the agenda ?

Why not simply get it over with and go way up North and past Dease Lake?

The current prognosis is that this little stroke of a pen will allow for major expanded Translink Tax/Cash grabs. ie the gas prices will no longer be cheaper in these outlying areas. I'm somehow feel assured "the powers that be" are just drooling at the extra revenue this will generate, and likely have cash grab projections right down to the penny.

MORE and MORE new victims of legalized crime .
Now Translink can have an even bigger pool of legal victims to also make another cash grab from increased PROPERTY TAXES as well.

Of course, this is typical camouflage of an insidious Trojan Horse. Feel Good propoganda hides "same old hands" yet in more and MORE pockets.

Fasten yer seatbelts.
Oh , I forgot, you won't need them on the Buses and SkyTrain that runs up to Pemberton and Hope...maybe by the year 2897.We should have another go at the Olympics by then.

You must turn left before you get to heaven...

Those that turned right missed the exit and are headed for the one-way express elevator down. Yes, my not so bright friends, it's a one on one with Louis Cypher himself!

Very keen observations about the Dolphins PB. What would be the human potential for good if ego didn't get in the way? Very interesting question. Dolphin facts: They speak several languages, enjoy: frolicking near the beach, moonlight nights and seafood buffets. And the best thing is, they have sex for pleasure! And unlike maestro, they never have to pay for it!

Live long and prosper lefties, and know that your place next to the almighty Dolphin is secured. I'll try to visit when I can, but I'm needed else where now.. where ever justice has been denied and basic freedom to swim in a free ocean taken away, I'll be there....

People who disagree with maestro...

Yep, its called a group of people that think you're wrong. You can't tell me you've never encountered such a species previously. You probably bump into us all the time :-)

Actually we're usually the vet. The ranting Right are the guys that get ticked about the 14% they're paying on top of that $1500 for their little darlings.

Sailing season already?

Its time to hoist your sail and ride with the dolphins already club?

I believe the injustice in Hawaii is terrible right now, godspeed my good man!

Martin

Thanks Frank. I have so much to learn.

Oh it gets worse G. Wait till he tells you his house never increased in value during the decade of the 1990's and how Bill Bennett had a better economic record than the NDP.

Yes, I have provided real estate and economic stats from BC Stats etc but he didn't like 'em. He's waiting for new ones to be issued from "Rite Fax R Us"

NEW OWNERS OF BIG OLYMPIC FLAG

On the news this morning, new owners of the big Olympic flag. Forgone stated that he wasn’t to concerned about the new flag owners. You could sense fear in his voice. I say good for you guys Let this just be the first step in shutting down this colossal waste of resources and money .This is who Vanoc and the Olympics fear the greatest ,The Natives.
We must defend the honor of these two ladies Harriet Nahanee and Betty Krawczyk additionally The death of 71 year old Harriet Nahanee. Cannot go by without retribution and that price should be the shutting down of the 2010 Olympics.
Following is part of Betty Krawczyk letter to the court stating her concerns for Harriet Nahanee . To read the rest of her letter I have posted her site address below
Below is the letter I wrote to Madam Justice Brown before she sentenced Harriet Nahanee to 14 days in Surrey Pre-Trial dentention center which is unabashed hell. Harriet is now fighting for her life in St. Paul's hospital. She developed pneumonia in Surrey Pre-Trial. I am extremely upset that Madam Justice Brown would do such a thing. Betty Krawczyk

Jan. 3, 2007

The Honourable Madam Justice Brown
The Supreme Court of British Columbia

Madam,

I understand that writing to one’s judge is frowned upon, especially when one is writing about another accused, however, I am very worried about Mrs. Harriet Nahanee.

Mrs. Nahanee is not well. She has asthma and is suffering the after effects of a recent bout of flu that has left her very weak. Still, Mrs. Nahanee is also very stubborn and will insist on reading the Proclamation of 1763 when she appears next before Your Ladyship. The problem is she won’t be able to get through the entire thing without help but will insist on trying anyway. I would like to act as Intervenor for Mrs. Nahanee, to help her through the reading of the Proclamation, but also to bring forth two other issues she wants to bring to your attention:

http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2007/02/below-is-letter-i-wrote-to-madam.html

Frank (the Vet) version #1.00000

Still can't answer a question :

Is that $1500 per paw or for all four legs ?

Senior citizen dog discounts ?

What if it's a low -income persons' dog?

Taxidermists?

Can you spay CLUB-Sky ?.... money is no object. He can "put himself down", pretty close to it now anyway. Club-sky keeps chasing parked cars.

What if the cheque bounces ?
Never met a Leftie that doesn't hate getting ripped off...(well I mean "professionally" , besides the usual broken record "society -is -evil- and -I- want- a -raise etc.etc." rant).

Split personalities...

Pull it over maestro. As Truman says, your little hints at violence just under the surface are obvious threats and symtoms of your personality disorders now exposed. Call it Blog rage, whatever, but you have it. Warning someone to be careful then your reference to having me clubbed by baseball bats, while barely holding your temper in check. Then seemingly to calm down, you change personality's again by going onto another story and writing the part of the family guy again. Split personalitys for sure, probably something deeper too... You're barely hanging on bro!

Petition

The price depends on the cut of your jib maestro.

And since we're reminiscing, I've never met a Rightie that was cogent.

clubofrome

Thank god you're back. You had me worried when we went to plaid yesterday.

Tis the season, Frank!

Watched a few Dahl's porpoise just off Bowen on route to Nanaimo. Nice. The fleet is ready to go again, except for those still under repair from the December storms. I heard a story about a boat house that went missing, broke away from the dock. They found the boat, but not the house!! Tales from Davey Jones locker! Fair winds Frank...

No worries G...

I just followed all the good will and clicked my heels together 3 times and I ended up back here! Right in my own back yard. Toto and I will never run away again! There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's....

G West: Glad "he's" back?

G West's Quote to clubofrome:

"Thank God you're back.
You had me worried when we went to plaid yesterday ."

Sounds like coded language for someones turn in that relationship to wear a dress and blow something.

(NOTE: Seinfeld-ism applies ie Not that many in a free-society think there is anything wrong with that).

whoa!!! Personal attack!!!

I think you just crossed a line there maestro. That smells of a personal attack.

Are you sure your old handle wasn't taxcutter99?

Mr Beers may have to put you in the woodshed for a few days.

Another Phobia?

Oh ya, something deeper for sure.

Maestor in the Clouds

Baton Dude sez:

I'm so glad you manage to elevate the discussion and not resort to COMMENTS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DELETED FOR BEING DEROGATORY TOWARDS PEOPLE. maestro YOU ARE ON NOTICE TO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS SUBSTANTIVE AND FREE FROM SUCH DEROGATORY REMARKS. --

Frank # (???)

The Jim Jones Punch bar is closed Frank...pay the tab...leave the tip...it'll open again when the next Leftie agenda rolls around.... oh...say...30 seconds ? Kindly wait outside, they will very much appreciate your patience. No sorry I retract that,...doesn't the sign say " Drink the Punch dammit ".

Otherwise , leave the two " friends " alone. Did I say their was anything wrong with it...you ain't one of those ___phobes are ya? That's what actually gets people purgatory-ized.

Even us Non - Lefties are a wee -bit liberal.

Geez Frank...what DID they teach you in the armed forces...shoot first ? Keep the safety on at least. Yeeeshh.

Persecution Complex...

Now maestro feels picked on, everyone is ganging up and not listening to him. This should spur him back to blog rage, kick the dog, punch the wall kind of mood. I think I'll leave now, as I've seen his break downs before. It's embarassing. Toodles...

maestro

Whats your hook maestro? Whaddya do for a living?
Where did all the hate originate from?
Have you examined this at all?
You seem an embittered man desperately trying to say something. Why not just say what it is that is twisting you up so.
Goodness man get a grip..you sound a right raving lunatic.

Hmm.

The Leftie Kangaroo court has spoken-sky.

PS Get spayed Bob the Scat. Take your TYEE posse' and buzz off. It's your bunch that is toxic and boring... you tend to crash parties and get your arse bounced out.

Can't believe how you cling-ons cling even closer to each other when your membership is exposed. Simply mind your OWN business, not that that has ever stopped you and your ilk before.

That said....Have a good one !!!

It's time to get all groups

It's time to get all groups in BC together as "ONE" and march Peacefully for Democracy and Freedom of Speech "NOW"!
FREE Betty Krawczyk "NOW" 10 months in jail, is she going to die for FREEDOM also?
In Loving Memory of Harriet Nahanee
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/03/05/Eagleridge/
Old Growth and keep our trees here for jobs
VANCOUVER location:
Premier Gordon Campbell's office
3615 West 4th Avenue (Point Grey)
1:00-2:00 pm mon March 12
Before TILMA's April 01, 2007
For more information about TILMA, and for ideas on how to fight it, contact the Council of Canadians at 1-800-387-7177 or email

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/westview/story/3758460p-4345834c.html#top

bob the cat

I have sooooo missed you! It is good to read you agsin!

Damn: The spaying didn't

Damn:

The spaying didn't work...

Time to use the vise grips.

Hi OMG

Hi OMG
Good to read you too! Right now as you can see I`m in the process of being "spayed" by a very strange character called "maestro"..

vise grips

It's gonna really hurt BTC! Some of us are toxic and boring, but we're here for you when it is over. Maybe Maesto spare you...let's hope!

Maestro, Woody...

Did I touch a nerve, fellas? I was just playing the guessing game.

Maestro, I thought we had found a common ground to to communicate and be civil while doing it....

Woody, what can I say ...your name makes me think of which head the blood goes to in a mans body which makes him incapable of coherent thought. From you it makes me ...cold.

Go ahead and shoot, boys, I got my tinfoil hat on!!!

are you a real blond

Hi there BLONDE PITBULL I knew I would get a rise out of you , wait I can’t get a rise out of you, you ain’t got no riser, bet you wish you did though, huh (hope you realize Im smiling all this time) Tell me, like are you a real blond 100%, or just the top 40%

You want a "riser"?

From me? You're playing in the wrong ballpark with me, honey, while I've got more balls than most men I have no pointer and definitely no wish for one- attached. Try again.

Tyee Posts...

I have been largely away from BC since 1999, and the addition of the Tyee to the mix of commentary and news is welcome indeed. Imagine a "Letters" section that actually publishes all the letters! This is what we have here.

Unfortunately, one thing has not changed, since the days when I first got interested in politics in the Dave Barrett years, and that is the altogether tiresome habit of people in BC to dismiss each other's opinions and analysis of fact with nothing more than, "You are a leftie!" on one side, and "You are a right wing fascist!" on the other. It helps not at all.

The personal attacks and nonsense displayed on this conversation are a sore and tiresome end to what started out to be a good post.

Freedom of speach? Surely that is one thing that posters here can agree on. Keep the personal attacks at bay, keep the news, analysis and grounded opinion ripping! And let those who rule with blithe complacency be the ones who feel the sting.

Blonde Pitbull:

No Worries my dear;

Things will get back to normal.
This will move back to the common ground to communicate.

It was simply free beer night at the TYEE , and some of the TYEE "L"ies got sh!tfaced just on the fumes.

You probably saw the news about the mutant form of pine beetle. It's now going after dead wood, which is why the TYEE "L"ies are now out buying suits of armour, starting from the neck up.

Most of these TYEE "L"ies don't have a "point" OR a "point-er". Reminds me of the JOKE about this little troll in a bar who keeps spitting in bar patrons faces...wanna hear it?

PS Please promise us you won't use an Alcan Chapeau to cover up those lovely blonde protein-based locks. I can see even from here that would be a terrible waste.

explication, please

writes maesto.

And then this:

You probably saw the news about the mutant form of pine beetle. It's now going after dead wood, which is why the TYEE "L"ies are now out buying suits of armour, starting from the neck up.

Most of these TYEE "L"ies don't have a "point" OR a "point-er". Reminds me of the JOKE about this little troll in a bar who keeps spitting in bar patrons faces...wanna hear it?

Which seems designed to be funny, but actually isn't.

Maybe it's the medium man, but it is just so not working.

Just so everyone knows.

I thought I'd post the information here that proves CanWest and the Sun are finally getting up to speed on a story that the G&M had days ago - and people on line at Tyee and at Mary's place have had even longer than that.

Way to go CanWest. You deserve a lot of credit.

Here's Vaughn Palmer's version of events.

I'll highlight a couple things so nobody missed them:

Vaughn Palmer, Vancouver Sun

Published: Saturday, March 10, 2007

VICTORIA - For everyone still wondering about that police raid at the legislature three years ago, there was encouraging news in a Vancouver courtroom this week.

"The public interest in having this case heard outweighs just about everything else," declared Justice Elizabeth Bennett of the B.C. Supreme Court.

She spoke her mind at the latest procedural hearing in the seemingly interminable pretrial phase of the much-delayed case.

It was taken as a sign that the judge has reached the end of her patience with the legal wrangling and means for the case to go to trial, as scheduled, next month.

She surely spoke for many British Columbians, who've been subjected to endless speculation and doubts since police first descended on the provincial parliament at the end of December 2003.

The judge appeared to be taking the side of the public a second time during her comments at Wednesday's hearing.

"These proceedings have to be as open as possible," she said. "We will have a system in place for proper access to documents."

Meaning proper access by the public and the news media, as reporter Mark Hume noted in his account of the hearing, published in the Globe and Mail newspaper Thursday.

The case has generated considerable interest and much speculation in both conventional news media and the online variety. Check out Bill Tieleman's latest piece on the Tyee website. Or Google "BC Mary."

But members of the public are also following the case on their own, or trying to do so. Justice Bennett disclosed in court that she was in receipt of a complaint from someone who'd been denied access to a document that had been circulated in the news media.

The judge's attitude may not have been improved by the fact that the document -- an application from the defence for more disclosure of information -- had fallen into the hands of the news media before she'd seen it as well.

Perhaps that helped reinforce her determination to get on with the public airing of the case.

The next procedural hearing is set for April 2 and the trial date is April 16.

Proceedings will likely commence with a week or two of legal arguments over the admissibility of evidence gathered through wiretaps and a series of search warrants.

Depending on what survives that winnowing, the public should begin getting answers to questions that have been posed and reposed for more than three years.

There was the sheer spectacle of the raid, followed by the bald declaration from police that it was connected to organized crime and the drug trade.

Then came the revelations of connections to key players in the provincial and federal Liberal parties.

Another shocker was the news that the raid was somehow connected to the sale of BC Rail, the government-owned railway, to CN Rail.

Then the allegation that, to preserve a viable bidding process for the BCR, the B.C. Liberals had dangled some sort of inducement to the second-place finisher. Supposedly, the consolation prize was the inside track on acquiring a second railway, the BCR spur line to the Roberts Bank superport.

Now, this is the point where the reader should be advised that much of this is speculative and none of it has been proven in court.

Note, too, that several of the presumed "bombshells" in this case were duds. The drug charges led nowhere. Most of the names mentioned in connection with the case were neither charged nor accused of wrongdoing.

Still, there's more than enough to warrant a full airing in open court, which is why Bennett's comment this week was so refreshing.

Without presuming to read her mind, I would note that she's been here before.

For she was also the judge in the Glen Clark case, which had similar elements. The charge of breach of trust. A political dimension. Complaints that the charge was overblown and unwarranted.

Bennett skilfully navigated those thickets in a written judgment in 2002.

Here's what she had to say about whether the case should have been aired in open court:

"Our free and democratic society requires such allegations to be investigated and a prosecution undertaken if there is evidence which meets the threshold required for charges to be laid. Anything less would bring the system of justice in disrepute."

Nevertheless, she acquitted Clark. He was guilty of "poor judgment . . . . However, there is nothing in his conduct that crosses the line from an act of folly to behaviour calling for criminal sanction."

Don't take this as a comment on the merits or possible outcomes of the case arising out of the raid on the legislature.

Rather, I wanted to record that Bennett's masterful handling of an earlier, no less politically charged case, suggests this one is in good hands as well.

Thanks Vaughn. Nice stuff fella.

Fair's fair after all

And here are those links again:
Mary:
http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
Bill:
http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/

And of course, right here at the Tyee for the rest of the story.

Robin Mathews, the spark that warmed a courtroom

Thanks, G West, for posting the Vaughn Palmer column. I'd just like to add something to where

by introducing this public-spirited human being as Robin Mathews, a passionate British Columbian, and a retired university professor of Canadian Studies.

Robin attended each of the recent pre-trial sessions for the B.C. Rail case, and wrote up his observations for The Legislature Raids, my blog.

Robin, I must add, kept pushing me to keep the web-site going, saying "What you're doing is important! Keep at it!" and he poured time and effort into his reports, freely contributed.

With quiet dignity at BC Supreme Court, he kept asking the right questions: asking Criminal Court Registry or the lawyers for copies of the documents he knew should be available to the public.

He wasn't always treated with the respect he deserved. And he wrote about that, too, "so that everyone could learn what you have to do, to participate in these matters," he told me.

So when Madam Justice Elizabeth Bennett admonished the court, last Wednesday, I'm sure that it was very much about Robin who had brought that issue forward.

As he left the Courtroom on Wednesday, Robin was interviewed by Mark Hume for The Globe and Mail, and another reporter for Canadian Press. Robin didn't tell me that. It was Bill Tieleman who -- with a touch of pride -- told me to watch the news that night.

G West :

You ever heard of the " LEFTIE IDITAROD " ?

Let me know.

I'll 'splain it to ya...

Surprised

maestro, be honest, did you really get off scot-free after saying one poster was looking to blow the other? I'm just curious where the line is drawn.

Three cheers

Three BIG cheers for BC Mary, Robin Mathews & Bill Tielman for your ethical action of speaking up & exposing the truth. It is only through people like yourselves, motivated for the right reasons, that the public's best interests are kept uppermost in the minds of the courts & the other media ~ it sure helps to let all of the 'powers that be' know that people are watching closely how this case is being handled. Perhaps it will put the courts on notice for other political cases as our courts in B.C. have become so political.

It also puts the MSM on notice that they will be left in the dust if they don't get with it & start reporting the truth instead of 'bleaching it' free of political stains. I guess Vaughn deserves a pat on the back - but you 3 voices above, lit the fire!!

Persistence does pay off!

Frank:

Let G. West answer their own mail.

BTW it was a double entendre...."Plaid" comment..thus Kilt..Bagpipe...

PS Are you now the G' man's spokesperson? hmmm.

'Splainin to do!

Keep it up everyone, he's bought into the big lie, Tyee conspiracy. Good work, especially getting him to explain his own posts! That's great stuff! Complete breakdown not far off now....

Giving credit where credit is due...

The ''outing '' of this story is very welcome and I would like to congratulate those that persisted in bringing this to light..!

As to those that choose to be erratic and disruptive I can only say shame on you all.

This story goes to the very core of our identity as a community. Do we simply ignore or worst yet attempt at creating diversions for the sake of our very own personal egos... or do we sit up and become diligent in our following this STORY... so that we all can learn from it.?

My choice is already made. BRAVO to all who kept at it to release the kind of information that all concerned and caring citizens can not only learn from ..but eventually make a sound judgement on. Events that clearly affect how we determine our participation in this governance model that we've given ourselves..

DEMOCRACY INDEED... AND WITH AN INFORMED CITIZENRY . Makes for a knowledge rooted society*
( and we all know that knowledge is power).Therefore let's get to the root of this story..* Let's get to the very root of the culture that drives these events..

As with the Picton farm saga..,these eventual outcomes of two trials within this province will go a long way in defining us for the decades to come!

CONGRATULATIONS , ONCE AGAIN , TYEE...
you've played a leading role in bringing about a certain ''intelligence'' that surely would not be as obvious as it is at this time..

Village ,

club

missed you on the weekend.

I posted a special treat for you right at the end of that boy trouble thread.

In case you missed it, here's the link.
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/02/27/BoyTrouble/
Enjoy.

(we have to work out an emoticon for dolphin)

maestro seems to think that 'plaid' has something to do with kilts; go figure.

mighty WHITE of you

La Village La West said to La, Woody you've played a leading role in bringing about a certain ''intelligence'' that surely would not be as obvious as it is at this time..
Why Thank You La Village La West, that’s mighty WHITE of you.
Got my risduals cheque?

No Tech Weekends

Except for the sporting kind... maintenance, cleaning and sometimes actually sailing. We waited for wind, but all we got was wet... It was coming down so hard... it was thought that if it came down any harder it might just displace enough air to create it's own wind... Rain displacement breeze. We estimated the rain would have to be so thick, you'd risk drowning if you took a deep breath...

Thanks for the treat. Watch yer top knot...

THE QUEBEC CONNECTION

GWest+Village= Garf

Does anyone else think that

Does anyone else think that maybe the BC Rail/BC Legislature Raids of Dec/28/03 on April 02, 07 and TILMA April 01, 07 might be a gordo way of negating the trial?

April 02 07 Raids trial

April 02 07 Raids trial

This story goes to the very core of our identity as a community.

This story goes to the very core of our identity as a community. Do we simply ignore or worst yet attempt at creating diversions for the sake of our very own personal egos... or do we sit up and become diligent in our following this STORY... so that we all can learn from it.?

To kd Brown.. : Imagine a "Letters" section that actually publi

A VERY GOOD POINT KD BROWN..., and a post worth repeating..

KD Brown 2 days ago

I have been largely away from BC since 1999, and the addition of the Tyee to the mix of commentary and news is welcome indeed. Imagine a "Letters" section that actually publishes all the letters!

This is what we have here.
Unfortunately, one thing has not changed, since the days when I first got interested in politics in the Dave Barrett years, and that is the altogether tiresome habit of people in BC to dismiss each other's opinions and analysis of fact with nothing more than, "You are a leftie!" on one side, and "You are a right wing fascist!" on the other. It helps not at all.
The personal attacks and nonsense displayed on this conversation are a sore and tiresome end to what started out to be a good post.
Freedom of speach? Surely that is one thing that posters here can agree on. Keep the personal attacks at bay, keep the news, analysis and grounded opinion ripping! And let those who rule with blithe complacency be the ones who feel the sting.
commenting help

Another post worth repeating *

Three cheers

secondlook 18 hours ago

Three BIG cheers for BC Mary, Robin Mathews & Bill Tielman for your ethical action of speaking up & exposing the truth. It is only through people like yourselves, motivated for the right reasons, that the public's best interests are kept uppermost in the minds of the courts & the other media ~ it sure helps to let all of the 'powers that be' know that people are watching closely how this case is being handled. Perhaps it will put the courts on notice for other political cases as our courts in B.C. have become so political.
It also puts the MSM on notice that they will be left in the dust if they don't get with it & start reporting the truth instead of 'bleaching it' free of political stains. I guess Vaughn deserves a pat on the back - but you 3 voices above, lit the fire!!

Persistence does pay off!
Quote:
"Nothing that has been covered-up will remain covered"

as to SKOOKUM's reflections........

There is in your thinking very powerful scenario's and optic that invariably asks of all readers to think with an open mind ..., '' the what if ? '' and where? , when? , why? , and the WHO ... above all.

What is beneath all of this news now surfacing. To the point of wondering also why it's taken so long to surface.

In the world that I inhabit , there are clear defining moments in history that herald a turning point.

Are we in B.C. living such a historical
transition?

THE REAL QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS , as we all know , reside in the ability to IMAGINE*... to think with an open mind , and an open heart.

To in effect , create a point of view to then explore and discover the larger context and content of any given topic...

From this ''communication grid and technique '' we can all , as fully thinking and independent individuals reach a conclusion , eventually , that will be not only factual, but clearly reflect the reality itself. ( of any given situation).. The evidence , as a case in point.

This is why the courts are such an important instrument - when not interfered with- at getting at the TRUTH!

Thus we are indeed , in an interesting moment in our collective history*.., as we see the cleavage of powers in our society deal with these unfolding chapters in our provincial political - individual - and collective lives*.

What's the international symbol for hot air?

I protested!

I knew all the way along that the sale of the BCR was a BADDDD deal for BC.
In fact, I singlehandedly protested outside the Coast Inn of the North in Prince George when all the biggies showed up to buy a train set. Seems that Gordo didn't want to talk to me. In fact, all of the lieberal butt heads that showed up were so busy kissing Gordo's butt that they couldn't possibly have known what they were doing.
As consevative as I am, I am very much pro democracy where I believe that the people of BC own these things and should be allowed the grace to approve any deals that divest us of any government owned division, through a referendum.
And I believe BC Hydro was on it's way out until Gordo pee'd on Paul Nettleton, one of the few incumbant MLA's re-elected. Paul as you know blew the whistle on Gordo who in damage control mode had to change his plans suddenly.
I was on my way to recalling Paul, but it turns out that revenge is sweet to Paul. I'm hoping that he is enjoying this.

freebc

You don't know where Paul Nettleton is, do you?

I made some efforts to find him late last year and I'd still be very gratified if you could put me in touch with him.

garthwest@hotmail.com

Symbol - Maestro = Hot Air

Jeepers Bill, this story has legs, eh? A week later and the discussion is still going on, the new story this week is great also. Mary, Robin and I got you happening now, just kidding, but you picked a good time to come home from Mexico.

Up above snert asked:

If you can find the avatar for maestro, thats it!

Harper is into the bush

Harper is into the bush NWO
Time for a Nation wide boycott of all big biz box stores that sell STUFF which 90% of us don't need!
Now gordo is creating all Mayors under his Dick-tator ship.
We have got to stop this traitor and his band of "lil" brown nosers in their tracks.
Gordo won't debate TILMA in the Legislature and we know why.
Where is our opposition's voice for the people of BC?