The most horrible prediction in this article is the 6 years of Harpo. Under him there won't be a Canada left in 6 years, sold for peanuts under the "deep inegration" racket to US multinationals, with a string of directorships waiting for Harpo, a la Mulroney.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

I have always thought Dion will be the new leader. He is sophisticated and knows how to deal with Quebec, which is way out of Herr Harper's league. He is also French and thus his turn in the Leader's chair..

.

Is it really? If I recall Herr Harper has a rather small minority with not a single member elected in an urban riding.

I'm not sure that the rightward slant of American, which is to say North American politics will necessarily go for another 6 years.

I believe the Bush crime family is going to fade away in 2 years, to count their lucre and toast the bin ladens. If Jeb was electable he would already be in office -- W. was a very long shot.

Working Man,

The Tories have had trouble capturing ethnic and urban voters. They are trying hard to capture the ethnic vote, which has been solidly Liberal since Trudeau liberalized immigration.

They will never win the Urban vote, but are capable of winning more of the suburbs including Richmond, Coquitlam and the North Shore.

The Tories don't benefit urban areas. They are a party for business and for middle class families. They are not for the single mother in East Vancouver.

Assuming the Liberals are centre - capturing the centre right and centre left vote - there are more Conservative voters than NDP voters.

I know several BC and Federal Liberal supporters that would opt for the Tories over the NDP. These people are fiscally conservative, but socially moderate. The Liberals could risk this if the firmly plant themselves on the left. This appears to be their course given that they were barely able to win any seats OUTSIDE of urban areas.

This is a party focused on city issues, much like the NDP.

Yammer,

I gaurantee that the Republicans will retain (both the senate and the house) in the fall, and will likely win the presidency in 08 (depending on who they run).

I spend a considerable amount of time in the US, and the fall in Bush's popularity is from Conservatives. Canadians and the World seem to think that the War in Iraq is killing George Bush, but they are wrong....illegal immigration is killing George Bush. His failure to deal with this issue is angering Americans.

Most Americans believe that their safety is at risk, and polls show that most are willing to sacrifice privacy to ensure their safety.

Most of all, Americans are capitalists and hate taxes. The Democrats are being controlled by the ultra left (see the election of John Kerry as party leader).

Wrong on all counts Capitalism 3 out of 4 voters voted for left leaning paries in the last election .
Harpo may be able to squeak out another tepid minority with even less seats but that'll be about it .
Wake up and smell the java for chrissakes.
Look at Mexico that is in the middle of a holy mess of an election because the rightests refuse to allow the left to govern.
All other elections in SA have gone Liberal in the past 5,years.
The age of Conservatism is as dead as a door nail .

All I hear from my American friends is that
the Democratic leadership has sold out to the Bushites. They support the Iraq disaster and Gitmo.

It is all bull. There is no difference between parties. Its all about wealth creation and growth; until we gag on it, and that will be soon.

Since the Liberal party likes its 'tradition' of having an anglophone, and then a francophone leader alternate, they - the Liberal traditionalists - are stuck in a quandry.

Darth Cretienous was a francophone, no argument.

Mr. Dithers is thought of as anglophone by most of the party, that was why he got his 'coronation'. However Mr. Dithers was also from Quebec and spoke french better than Darth Cretienous.

So now which way to jump?

I think that the general view of Mr. Dithers as anglo will prevail and a franco will be the selection, making Dion the natural choice.

My prediction, second or third ballot, with Kennedy (?) a distant third or fourth, KO'd on the second or even first balloting. The proof of this 'fix' will come when Kennedy 'voluntarily' transfers his support to Dion and then gets a plum party position for a few years, staying near the power, learning the ropes and making himself ready to take on the job after 2-4 years and the time when the CONformers have stubbed their toes a few more times.

Who knows or even cares what american (or Mexican) voters actually think when filthy, crooked republicans steal elections (and anything else they can lay their dirty hands on) through fraudulent means anyhow.
Infact next time you go down to the usa why don't you stay there and do us all a favour.

How to win elections the "conservative" way. I wonder how long before the Harpo gang starts advocating the use of electronic voting to "harmonize and deep integrate with our great friends and trading partners"?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13933.htm

Ed Deak.

-

Bob Rae could win. He has a good head start, and those Liberal contenders who fear Ignatieff-style US imperialism will, perhaps reluctantly, get behind him -- Ujjal and Irwin Cotler are already there. (Not sure why Stephen Owen is with Ignatieff, though the support of "Arar national-security secrets man" Wayne Easter (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/03/arar-easter050603.html) and the friendly Esquimalt military buff make sense.) Rae knows political organisation. If he doesn't win, it will be interesting to see who he supports in the anyone-but-Ignatieff campaign... or who Ignatieff supports if he's out early. Dion and others are making the environment a key issue, thankfully, but I don't see him as the debating spokesperson who can crush Harper, though being a nice guy could go a long way.

Haha! Conservatism has never been stronger. You have Conservatives in power in Germany, Australia and all throughout North America.

In Canada, the Conservative provinces are continuing to exert stronger influence on Canada as a whole.

The only time Conservatism has ever been this strong was during the Thatcher, Mulroney and Raegan years!!

Dead as doornails....what a joke! Since when have the Liberals been left leaning? They slashed taxes dramatically, balanced the budget and all but eliminated transfer payments. So they legalized gay marriage....c'mon. These guys are not left leaning by any stretch. They are leaning that way now for the first time since John Turner.

Bob Rae:

A former NDP leader who bankrupted Ontario and was decimated in the next election. No freekin' way!

He is a smart man and a great speaker. Though Harper (by all accounts) is the smartest PM we have ever had. Too bad he has an uncomfortable demeaner.

Not sure at the moment which way to jump.
Rae and Dion are for sure the favourites at this juncture.
Dion is adamantly opposed to the Afghan adventure as is Rae .
Both are pro Kyoto so there is not a lot to differentitate the two at this juncture .
I think Dion probably has the best vision for Canada for our future .
If we get returned to power quick enough we can cancel some of the dumb ideas the neo-cons have has about procurement for the forces .
When has it been necessary for Canada to be at the scene first ? Never .
We are always a second and third responder .DART can be carried on one heavy lifter .
No arguement about the helicpoters .
Now the forces are wobbling on just what kind of trucks they need .
Personally I think Dion could run circles around Harpo in any intellectual debate .
Smartest guy in the room my ass .

Anyone noticed the carousel of news stories these last few days on the Mexican election; they keep on saying Calderon has won, and then more irregularities turn up, now it looks like there'll be an official recount, whether the National Post, Globe and Mail, or NY Times have already declared the election over or not? Plus all the writeups about how bad an Obrador government would be for the economy, which is "code" for "pull all your money out and crash the place if the commies win"?

I'm finding it amusing, in a sick kind of way: the media trying to sell us on the benefits of a right-wing Mexican government; because, among other things, it'll be a better relationship with the Bush White House. Why do we need to be sold? To remind us that Harper is the establishment choice for "continental stability" and all that. But the posturing over uncounted elections already being won by the conservative candidate, before all the votes have even been counted, is getting quite farcical...

BTW Ed, which Big Lake are you at? The one near 100 Mile or the one north of Billy's Puddle? I might be in Lillooet and Clinton during the next month is why I'm asking...

"The only time Conservatism has ever been this strong was during the Thatcher, Mulroney and Raegan years!!"

I beg to differ. Most of Latin America has gone left. Elsewhere too, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, New Zealand and Norway. The left, while out of office, remains a very strong force in Germany, Greece and France. Bush is in deep trouble as is Blair. Labour in Australia is getting back on its feet. The Harpocrit is supported only by a minority, etc., You have to go back to the 1970's for the left to be in this good a shape. And I am only talking about the moderate electoral type left. The militant extra-parliamentary left hasn't been this strong globally since about 1920.

To my Mexican companiero's,
VIVA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheesh. Thought that was a picture of Jerry Springer at first.

It won't be Kennedy.

I suspect Dion will win, as the only francophone in a race that's "due" for a francophone to win. The Central Canadian party establishment isn't about to let anyone from outside that region win, and are likely to fixate on Quebec. Rae and Ignatieff have baggage - though Ignatieff could have mitigated his, given time. Kennedy is an unknown, and neither he nor Dryden seem to be picking up delegates. Volpe has delegates, but his financial misstep means he can be nothing more than a king-maker.

Of course, it's too far off to really tell what will happen.

I'm curious which of the candidates have a position on paying back the millions stolen from the Canadian public by the Liberal party (to buy votes) last time. If they can't address that issue, there's no point in listening to whatever comes next.

I have to laugh; every time in the past forty years that a liberal or SD government went down to defeat, we were deluged by a chorus of "tide against the left" and "conservative trend". Every time one of their own got clocked, silence or pretending it didn't happen or talking about "local issues".

Capit, when you show a little objectivity, we will take you a bit more seriously.

R. Smiley

When it comes to the Gliberal leadership I am for ABI - Anybody But Ig. This guy is really dangerous and I have the feeling he was planted here in an attempt to produce a US-style politics, ie a one party state execpt the single party has 2 brand names and all other views (especially anti-war) are marginalized. Not that the Liberals are in any way progressive or libertarian socialist, but at least they kept us out of Iraq. If both major parties were controlled by war mongers I fear for this country.

Phuque , did you hear the idiot Albertan's crowing,in Washington, about how Alberta was a Republican state and Alberta was Texas North .
I almost threw up in my Corn Flakes after hearing that idiocy .

Left? - Right? who gives a damn. These names are given by the media to help the peons vote the way the media wants them to vote. Don't like somebody, well call him a lefty. You want someone to support a candidate call him a Rightie, that's what is all about.

Therre is no difference between the BC Liberal Party and the BC NDP, if anyone thinks so, they are nuts. Both parties were totally autocratic in power and made many foolish and expensive mistakes. The NDP - FastFerrys; the Liberals RAV

Who gives a damn who the Liberlas elect as leader, the party is as corrupt as a gangreenous sore. The Conservatives remind me ever so much of that nasty bit of evil that ran Germany in the 1930's and 40's. "Might is right", among many others, was their motto, the same that the conservatives use today, unless you are dealing with the USA, then it's "give'm what they want"!

Until we get a true democracy or even a little bit of real democracy, all we will get is 2 to 5 year dictatorships and all the corruption they spawn.

I'm betting BC leaving Canada by 2050 and good riddance to the rest of this smug & corrupt third world country!

I agree wholeheartedly with Grumpy!

Yeah but then we get an island with Gordo's anointed as head cheese.

Who wants that?

With Bush at 33% in the polls and the losing war war in in Iraq I am not so sure of that.

Then again, you can only be sure of two things.

Hmm, Trudeau was pretty smart, too. Hitler was by all accounts a good a good speaker, too.

"Until we get a true democracy or even a little bit of real democracy, all we will get is 2 to 5 year dictatorships and all the corruption they spawn."

Hey, Grumpy you got it!

I wish there was a greater selection to choose from. Almost all of our PMs in recent history have been lawyers from Quebec.

It would be nice to get some representation from another region that is not another short-lived minority government.

The only way any party will win a majority is with our current system of voting. We desperately need electoral reform, and campaign funding reform.
What is left? What is right? If right means having a small number of fat cat`s selling the country to the highest bidder, I guess I`m a lefty.

I think the Liberals have a secret plan - Justin Trudeau, just wait, in a few years we will have Trudeaumania all over again.

We all loved to hate Trudeau, but hands down he was a Canada-firster a true Canadian. We haven't had a PM like that since!

All we have now is a bunch of Quislings ready to sell out the country for a few dollars more! Look at the SoftWood agreement, Harper & Emerson are selling Canada out. Screw the americans and show them that we are made of sterner stuff like a 50% export tax on energy, you want energy, you pay!

Where are all the Capitalists on this one? When you have something that is in short supply and the other guy needs it, ramp up the price until he squeaks. The Americans, true ecconomic terrorists need a taste of their own medicine! We need leaders with backbone, not jelly as we have now.

Right! So, where were everyone when Clark wanted to get US subs out of Nanose Bay?
That was leadership!
He said screw the USA, if they will not negotiate then we have means at our disposal too!
But our Federal govt. was too busy suckholing ...........then as now!

Unfortunately, it was constitutionally impossbile.

But I get to look at Glenn's Navy every day from my Gastown office window. Maybe he did win?

I understand he is doing very well working for Jim Pattison.

Good on him but I know w-o-r-k is a dirty four letter word for you gloomy.

Anyone know how the "Tories for Rae" campaign? I thinked it edged the Tories for Fry campaign by a few votes as the way to give Harper his majority.

I think the only way for the Liberals to have a chance is to go with Ignatief. Why, because he is the only person without any baggage and also the only person to go up to Harper and snag all but the socons.

The liberals shouldn't even bother with the left, they'll all come back from the dips on mass like scared sheep, as many wanted a change of regime if only long enough to pluck some of the weeds left by Chretien/Martin eras. And any of the candidates seem more progressive than Mr. Dithers. Policy?? Who needs policy.

Kennedy would probably be a good pick, had McGuinty not come off to a bad start, and probably would allow Harper to feast on the rest of the 401..

Ignatieff would be the best choice, only because he probably couldn't be distinguished from Harper. Both are brainy, both are more fiscally conservative, both had no past experience screwing over their electorate. The only real difference is that Iggy won't be pandering to the social conservatives, and can wave that in Harper's face. Iggy's best bet would be to go hard on carbon taxes and the environment (Alberta's locked up.. so who cares about votes there), stand up on social rights, and then agree with everything else Harper says. IE go for issues that you know Harper can't change his mind on, and play it safe on everything else.

Now the left may disagree with me, but put two evils together and you get the lesser of the two. Put a good and an evil together, and you get a martyr.

I Agree flat lux the scariest prediction in this article is the prediction of Harper in power for another 6 years.

Thanks Fiat lux for referring us to the article in Information Clearing House. The "comments" were very interesting. Conservatism, whether here or in the US, is the problem Capitalism. As an article by George Lakoff, Marc Ettinger and Sam Ferguson for the Rockridge Institute put it: "Conservatism itself is the villaim that is harming our people, destroying our environment, and weakening our nation." -and further: "We should be putting the onus on all conservative leaders who would lead us off the same cliff."

No specific comment except to say thanx for the comments. I have great fun writing this column because I have no fear of censorship and no need to self censor. If I have fun writing the column, and I do, I also get great enjoyment out of reading your responses. This is what open line radio used to be once upon a time.
Bless you.

R

Actually, Rafe, this site has been known to censor comments not in line with the Cause of Socialist Perfectionist Utopia.

Who was the kingmaker over the past many years? It was Paul Desmarais. Martin worked for him and Chretien's daughter is married to one of his sons. Peter Mackay has been seeing his daughter. Bob Raye's brother works for him and he ran the '95 referendum NO campaign out of Desmarais's Montreal office, as well as Chretien's campaign. The Desmarais's are very powerful. Who are they backing? If Bob Raye's brother John is working at Power Corp. and his brother Bob is running it could well be he who succeedes.

The answer lies in who is the invited guest this summer at the Desmarais' Charlevoix estate.

I am a not a Liberal, but I would say that Dion will win. With the Conservatives running so strong in Quebec, the Libs have to react. Iggy will not appeal to Quebec pacifist thinking, Dion is the ex environment minister and a very smart man. Not as smart as Harper, but close.
It may be that we see Dion elected to PM in ten years, when Harper is sick of the job.

A statement like: "conservatism is the villain that is harming people, the environment and the nation," is a short cut for thinking.

Conservatism is not the problem of capitalism, capitalism is the problem of capitalism; it's so brilliant at concentrating wealth [with the aid of competitive state policies] that it's killing the demand part of the equation.

Conservatism is the answer as security issues are set to increase manifestly with rising income disparity and environmental costs. Having civil liberties contradicts the concessions being made for capital.

And no way is Harper the most intelligent PM. He's just another Americanizer who has long lusted after making Canada [by his own account a second-rate country] America.
He has a blueprint for the whole thing that he set in motion from day one. Why else do you think that the press is banned from Parliament? Is he not pursuing constitutional change as we speak?

Selling out Canada is neither clever nor new. I'd agree that we need a leader with a political spine and not some turtle-necked yankee lover.

Capitalism:

That's ikd saying that FDR was responsible for Pearl Harbour because the Japanese happened to attack it on his watch.............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Peterson
The third reason was the weakening North American economy. Productivity levels were falling throughout the United States and Canada during this period, and were likely worsened in Ontario and other jurisdictions by the recent passage of a Free Trade Accord involving the two countries. While there was little that Peterson, or any other Ontario Premier, could have done to prevent this downturn, it weakened his government's reputation for fiscal competence. (Indeed, the government's projected surplus budget for 1990-91 ultimately yielded a deficit of at least three billion dollars.)

"Everyone knows" that the Ontario economy tanked under Peterson..........not Rae.

If the Harpocrit is so intelligent why is his viewpoint limited to a shallow ideology that any freshman university student can rip to pieces?

I love the political life in Canada right now. I can't hide my confirmation that my team has Gretzky and the other team are leaderless, with no hope in site.
Harper is obviously very cunning, intelligent man, who will manage to defeat the gloomy left wing forces. But that may only include the NDP for now. If the Lib comes back to the right of center, there may be a slight threat, but it would take them awhile to differentiate themselves.
Any way you look at it, the Con is in good shape, being that they are what they are. They are defined and accepted, even by more and more people all the time.
The Lib have a long way to go, before they get their act together. They know that. They have a lot of baggage to dispose of as well.

All ideology is shallow. That's the point of it. One tangent.

It's not that Harper's not intelligent, but he pales in comparison to Trudeau who was both more clever and less transparent.

Interestingly, they both came in with an agenda for constitutional change.

Trudeau trumps Harper because what he was doing was actually against the grain. Being a nationalist in Canada can't be easy.

The only reason the cons are in good shape is because there is no one else in sight. The liberal contestants are nibbling on the fringes of political consciousness.

Yep I AM Clueless, you definitely have a con going. That's what con men like Harper do:Whether or not it is a good thing is quite another matter. One thing that is certain, you know absolutely nothing about it.

Why is almost everyone going Ga-Ga over Rafe these days. As I recall, he was Billy Bennett's first Attorney General.

Rafe, I'm with you on Kennedy. The first time I heard him speak I realized that to be liberal actually _means_ something.

There is a huge, silent majority of us who are sick of partisan politics, hungry for real governance, and tired of being screwed by whichever party is in power. The NDP, though miles away from power, still seem to lose a few more principles each time they get close enough to smell it.

As for Harper, he's just getting a free ride with no real opposition. How many Canadians have even heard of Bill Graham?

If the Liberals choose a strong, visionary leader, and truly rebuild and renew the party, all predictions for Harper's reign are off.

Rafe is an old rabble-rouser, who will stir any pot of shit,just for the hell of it.
Guess what? people love to hear their leaders being taken to task, and Rafe has nothing to loose now.
I seldom agree with him, and his political affiliations over the years simply stink.

Skookum

We're about half way between 150 and Likely. On Swan Road. The second cattle guard is on our land. Look for "Roger's mechanical" on the left , He's our partner.

Ed Deak.

Very well said.

To Ed from Skookum; ah, too bad; if it was the one near 100 Mile I'd have tried to get up there from Clinton; past the Puddle is a bit far, unless I have someone's car and lots of gas ;-) Woulda been good to sit and chew some fat maybe....y'never know maybe I can get my ass up there sometime this summer; always meant to check out Likely, Horsefly, Wells etc; used to partly know the CoC commies - Gerry LeBourdais et al - who I'm sure you know of and probably don't approve of, but they often have good old-time musical kicking around...I'll never forget the old Canyon Shuswap guys in their crash-hostel in Williams Lake playing old, old fiddle styles in a distinctly Old West kind of way; I'm a musician and some of my stuff tries to evoke that flavour; but it would be good to hear the real thing again....

missed a word: good old-time musical kicking {I]hanging[/I] around.

After we revived Uncle Oracle with some smelling salts and a shot of gin I went on. "Uncle Orc, who'll win?"

Loved this bit....

Hedy Fry - Canada's Al Sharpton.

On the other hand, Gloomy, Rafe gives you the backroom deals of politics because for the most part, he's been there - or rubbed shoulders with people who have.
I'm surprised MacLean's hasn't put the grab on him - or maybe they have, and he's refused.
We need his type to at least try to keep the politicians honest.

Quite frankly, I believe the Liberals will require a contender for the next election. There would have been a successful Tory non-confidence vote already except that, given the public mood of another election, it would have been a death sentence to the party/parties suggesting it....in my opinion.
Regardless of age, the Libs would jump at the chance to elect anyone who has a name that has a slight promise of victory.
Grooming for 10 years? That seems like a lifetime in party politics.

All I mknow is that every time Ontario and Queer-bec elect their leaders from there, it fuels the embers of separatism in BC.
Goody!!!!!!!!!!

Yup, and that is why he is so popular.
Considering the shoulders he has rubbed agains, I bet he has much more dirt he could air except he would be ashamed to have to admit he was there, and did nothing about it.
A good little yes-man when in office!

Harper is as dead as yesterday's news .
No vision,no clarity, and certainly no accountability spell the end of the neo-cons .
Every time the moron is threatened he says it will be a confidence vote .
Can't wait for the opposition to call his bluff and bring this train wreck to a screeching halt .
The opposition is adamant about not signing on to the SLA with the yankees .
Harpo says fine it will be a confidence vote.
Great! we may be able to limit the damage to just under a year .
Hitching his wagon to GWB was the dumbest move I've ever seen .
Bush is at 30% in the polls and the neo's are only slightly higher in Canada .
Nope. I see a Liberal minortiy on the horizon.
His insane stances on Kyoto and Afghanistan insure a Liberal win. Count on it .
Stephen Dion will be the next Liberal leader with Bob Rae as his deputy .
A solid one two punch to the solar plexus of the neo's.
Buh-bye Doris, Vicky,Chucky,Bunny et al.
See you on the opposition benches.Forever.

Hope you're right Hannibal but alas, Harper's running the way of Mulroney except that Mulroney's opinion was more valued by the U.S. And, unfortunately for our country, Mulroney lasted too long.

Besides the average voter under the age of 40 is (generally) woefully ignorant of politics and they're the ones that kept Mulroney going.

Come on, Dime, capitalism could not exist without conservatism - they're interchangeable.

Jack's I agree.The difference is ,is that Mulroney never had a bunch of right wing nuts(Alliance/Reform) in his party to contend with .
They were the Progressive Conservative Party and not a construct of 2 or 3 different parties .
People like Vic Toews and Doris Day would have had no place in that Government not to mention mental midgets like Myron Thompson.
I beleive all of Canada is awake now as to just who this new Government(?) is .
Harpo is a liar and a thief .
Now that they have been caught out by Elections Canada for fraudulent fund raising it will be interesting to see the outcome.
Their response was "Hey,check the Liberal's out "
Bunny Ambrose should be fed a steady diet of C0 2 .
Peter Lougheed has called for a moratorium on oil sands development and a more equitable royalty structure.
The one Klein put in place has cost Albertan's over 250,billiom dollars in income.
Now that is insane .

http://whatreallyhappened.com/usa_vote_facts.html

Jesus wept . I pray we will not travel down this road to oblivion .
Incredible !
How to fix an election without really trying .
The code was written by amateurs . That is reassureing .
No paper trail ?
California decertified the machines it was using .
How is this, even, possible ?
Scary,scary ,scary .
Can't wait for the neo-cons to try and sell this idea to Canadians.
"Well,Steve it worked for me in the last election.Delivered me Ohio with no sweat "
If memory serves Ohio is the state that put Shrubby over the top .

Maritimer, if you want to talk about conservatism and capitalism being interchangeable I'd ask you to qualify it. This:

["Conservatism itself is the villaim that is harming our people, destroying our environment, and weakening our nation."]

Granted it's out of context, but it sounds like a fill in the blank argument. If you substituted terrorism for conservatism, it would sound like it was quoted from Bush.

Neo-liberalism has done much more for capitalism than conservatism. It's discursive magic is behind the development treadmill, every post-Bretton Woods supranational agreement and organization out there [UN, WTO, ICC etc.], and every Hollywood-fueled N.american living a fat life of consumption. It's all about the freedom to choose slavery.

But it may be something to say that ideas are what are at the root of this Mutually Assured Destruction that needs no nuclear weapons.

The Neo-libs and Cons are pretty close.
But Harper, Bush [sr/jr] and rest of the hawks are Neo-cons like Strauss which is not the same.
All this classification is a bit of crap though. I mean, it's like saying you play rock and not blues.

I would agree that you couldn't have capitalism without an ideological prop to make the sale. But liberalism [neo or not] is all about private property and "free" market as well.

Dime, I have to agree with you with regard to the Liberals in Canada: Chretien and his crew out-mulroneyed Mulroney and Martin wasn't any better. We need a party in power in Canada that will curb the power of Capitalists and their corporations. Harper and his conservatives are not that party.

But neither is the NDP. Its policies would devastate the economy and throw tens of thousands out of work. Thus, they are unelectable.

So what does that leave us? The Liberals.

I listened to Jack Layton on CFAX last Friday. He talked about the need to eat babies for breakfast on weekends. He was swillin whiskey and pinching the bum of the producer. He then stoked a Camel laced with cocaine.
It was at about this time that he revealed an AK47, and threatened Terry Moore to turn over his bank card and provide the pin number.
Ralph Klein has cost the Alberta economy 250 BILLION dollars.
Apparently you can make it up as you go here.

So if Alberta got a fair Royalty rate like the world average of 20 percent instead of an unfair royalty rate of the world lowests (1%), brewed by pirates out to plunder from your pockets; that surplus would have been $$ 200 BILLION $$

IAMC, Millionaire Jack is a good speaker. He says all the things people want to hear and he can do so safe in teh knowledge he will never govern. Nor does he ever state how he will pay for it or how the taxes he raises well affect economic perfomance and unemployment.

And of course, he'll tax someone else. He likes being a millionaire. And remember we have Millionaire Jack to thank for Herr Harper.

hannibal:

Seems these are valuable assets for being shoo-ins for elections nowadays............

I frankly think that Canadians would shrivel into themselves if faced with a firebrand candidate.

working man
Back to your incessant whining I see. Stuff like this, for example:

As always with not a single proof or reference and ignoring the fact the NDP governments of long standing in both Saskatchewan and Manitoba, with economic and population problems that BC has never had to worry about, are doing very well. Not even a single erroneous quotation from Caesar today!

As to the federal situation, if the NDP is elected, could they do any worse than any number of old line exemplars I can think of.

Lies and innuendo - your stock in trade.

Working Man, we don't have "millionaire Jack to thank for Herr Harper" as you put it. The uninformed voting public did that!

I frankly think that Canadians would shrivel into themselves if faced with a firebrand candidate.

Agreed RickW :
Hence the milquetoasat now occupying the PM's chair .
When I think of firebrand all that comes to mind is Pierre .
He had a big set and knew how to use 'em.

freebc, try separating from the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America being implemented by stealth by Bush, Harper, and the right-wing head of Mexico.

Really? Millionaire Jack voted with Herr Harper to bring the Liberal government down. He lost the balance of power at the same time.

I have a lot of respect for both the Sask and Mantiboa NDP because they have done away with the fixed quota of union seats in the party convention. This has led to more balanced and reasonable models and quite good government in both provinces. I believe in one person one vote but the federal and BC NDP do not.

Economically, Sask and Manitoba are doing well but only in relation to how well they did in the 1980s. Neither have growth or GDP per capita, not to mention average wages, of BC and Alberta. They only comprise about 10% of Canada's population.

Lefties like to make excuses and blame others, but the peformace of Bob Rae and the BC NDP in the 1990s speak for themselves.

Besides, Millionaire Jack can say anything he wants. He and his party will never, ever form a government. They are too narrowly focused on orgnised labour and ignore the rest of us. Our interests are not necessairly the same no matter how much leftie squealing and conspiracy plots there are out there.

And the population thing is nonsense. BC is a highly desirable place to live while the prairies are not. What do you suggest? Internal visas so only card carring NDP memebers can live in British Columbia?

You really are getting to be a bore!
Get a life!

Working man...
Needs to be repeated....voting Canadians gave us Herr Harper and bear the responsibilty - don't try to foist this off on someone else. This is how elections work. Hopefully, many of them will opt for a different choice next time, but, God,
Bush got elected twice!!!!!
Secondly, yes, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are doing quite well, despite not being endowed with the location/natural resources of B.C. and Alberta. To expect these two prairie provinces to have growth/GDP like the other two is rathr silly.
But then again, maybe you think Ralph put the oil in the ground?

How long, since BC entered confederation, was the NDP in power?

BC has plenty of problems, despite the current boom times for opportunists like you. BC's history is full of these ups and downs. The population thing is far from nonsense. If you knew anything about the praires and the difficulties there you wouldn't say such a stupid thing. However, it fits the pattern of everything else you post - ignorant in the extreme. You haven't even got a clue what I was refering to and you don't have the good sense to ask - what else is new?

Harper is very very smart.

> 2 terms easily...probably more.

Watch him ... and learn from him.

He has been studying you for longer than you would want to know.

PM Harper is not your enemy, nor the Conservatives, but yourselves.

Liberals are in the dark for some years yet. They'll return, but not quickly.

Overall, Canada does not want them to govern for at least 3-4 years.

Understand the polity.

Keep at it.

Best,

James

Based on the fact that herr Harpo has alienated the entire electorate with his BS.
No Kyoto . The nimber one priority in Canadians minds .
Yes to Afhanistan. Even though this is a much different deployment than was envisioned .
He lied about not appointing anyone to the Senate who was not elected .
Made David Emerson a cabinet Minister after luring him,through John Reynolds,away from the Liberals .
His budget is a crock of shit. Punishing the poorest once again .
Yea, he is really getting all his ducks in a row.
You ,James, are foolish beyond belief .

Caught by elections Canada illegally fund raising .
Taking away a day care program that most Canadians wanted .
One in 4 voted for the all moron party .
What in the hell are you talking about?!!!
Better wake up and pay attention to what is going on around you .

And yet we - your 'foolish beyond belief' are in government.

Who is really the bigger fool here?

It still hurts. It will for about 2 more years yet.

But it can get better.

Like Ignatieff, you just have to 'go find yourself first'... (yawn)

Best,

James

Sold out the country to the US on the softwood lumber deal that no one is going to sign anyway .
Crawled right up GB's ass and is a sychophant of the most umpopular president in history.
Yea, he's smart alright in a room full of mental defectives which you would have to be to vote for this goon .

James go play in traffic will 'ya.
The grownups are talking .

Like Ignatieff, the rest of the Liberal Party post-'The Sponsorship Scandal' simply must find their metaphor again ...(yawn)

I give it a solid 4-5 years minimum.

What'll you guys do meantime?

James

4 -5 years in opposition...more time for yourselves to go play in traffic, we suggest.

And we control the traffic now...

Keep pluggin' away, little opposer

Best

James

Is that a graduation gift, james? The royal 'we' I mean.

Yea,G his mommy gave it to him, for graduating kindergarten .

Working Man wrote:

That was just a wee little parliamentary technicality (just kidding).

Maritimer wrote:

The voting public was not uninformed: it knew exactly what it was doing. Most Canadians are inherently conservative: it just looks nicer under a patina of liberalism. The patina has worn off.

greengreen wrote:

And who provided them with the timely opportunity to do just that? I seem to recall some kind of coalition between Herr Harper and Hack Satan prior to the last election ... Oh, I forgot -- guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I expect at least two more terms of Tory rule (majority governments) and as many of Republican rule in the U.S. Canada is not and never will be Latin America, and most Americans have scant regard for Sweden and Norway. I wish it weren't so -- but given the self-congratulatory elitist myopia of the political left in Canada and the U.S., I can't see any other alternatives. The forces of social and fiscal conservatism have won by default -- practically handed their victory on a silver platter -- while the left continues to snap and snarl and whinge and whine and snatch its defeats from the slobbering jaws of victory. And then blames the uninformed voters. Uh-huh. Sure.

Or should we say the mis-informed voters?
They could learn something indeed by watching Sweden and Norway, but the only news we get from there is like when Gordo makes a "fact-finding" tour to select the facts he desires.
perhaps blaming the media makes more sense than blaming the voters?
But we all know who owns the media, don't we?

Right on, Gloomy! I still say Conservatism is the problem. As Paul Waldman says: "It's The Conservatism, stupid". Conservatism does not serve the people. It's a failed ideology of the past and we don't want to go there.
Please, Bluenose, do not bring up Bush and the US Republicans - they have failed miserably on all counts!

The CPC is doing very well. I am sure we will be in power until Steve wants to quit. We don't have serve limits in Canada. Although we know that wouldn't have helped us against the Liberals over the last 12 years, it's interesting to see how the Americans don't allow any President to do more than two terms. George Bush did two terms.
When people talk about Bush popularity rate ( which has risen from a low of 32% to 40 % ) it doesn't really affect his power. Afrer all, he is not going to be in power in 2 years.
So, he doesn't have to worry about anything except protecting the American agenda. So don't look for him to do anything that will be approved by regulars on this site.
Conservatism is a valuable philosophy, when compared to the opposition, who are very flaky, and don't seem to articulate what they believe in.
We are in a NEW ECONOMY now. Wake up, it's the time of the season.
The economy in the US is beyond expectations. So is ours. Please give up the negative BS , BS, BS, BS, BSH that is being portrayed here.

Maritimer wrote:

I couldn't agree more. But, unfortunately, they will probably be re-elected. And re-elected. And re-elected.

IAMC wrote:

It certainly is. It's the end of days, the end of history, the end of time. How else to explain the notion that "conservatism is a valuable philosophy?" A valuable philosophy for whom? Oh, don't answer that.

It's not the American agenda, IAMC, it's the Conservative agenda. Much more of Bush and his crew and other like-minded self-centered individuals and corporations and Americans won't have a country.

I would find that rather unlikely. Two things will undo Herr Harper:

1. First Nations. Herr Harper has managed to unravel years of hard work to get a good working relationship with the federal government and the First Nations by reneging on the Kelowna. His recent pledge to end the Native Food Fishery may appease the rednecks who already voted form him. It will not, however, play well with urban voters who, correctly, see him as boinking the poorest people in the country. Incidently, I don't see the lefties here even mentioning this.

2. Afghanistan. The public will only take so much of this. We have no business there except to make Bush and Rummy happy. The death toll will continue to rise in a war that can never be won. Herr Harper is using it as an excuse to raise military spending and shovel money into American corporations, which in fact played a big part in his elections. This is all fine and good while the economy is strong but when the recession comes and revenues fall, it will be hard to justify closing hospital beds in favour of new C-17 aircraft.

Thirteen years. What I ask you you NDPers is to examine the reason why you so rarely (or federally never) hold office. Is there something you can do to make your party more electable?

I have asked this question many, many times. What I get in reply from the socialist geniuses here is name calling. Not one of you has the courage to answer this question without blaming others.

Why can't you take some responsibility for your failure, fix your party and form a government? Herr Harper (rightly or wrongly) did just that and is now the PM.

What poll puts Bush at 40% idiot ?
He barely raises above 30 .
Conservatism is not a philosophy nor has it ever been .
The Conservative/Reform/Alliance Party (CRAP) has as nmuch to do with true conservatism as the Liberals do with anarchy .
Nope your leader is a moron with no business leading the best nation on the planet and he is surrounded by even bigger morons.Ambrose,Toews,Doris,Chucky et al .
I thought Chucky was supposed to be dying from the cancer.Looks awfully healthy to me for someone with one foot in the grave.A lame attempt at gaining sympathy.
Nope the Barnum and Baily party(all clowns) will be a one trick pony .
Canadians are sick to death of the arrogance without substance displayed by these idiots.
Everything becomes a confidnce vote.
Well guess what they are gonna call the bluff and send Canadians back to the polls where the Liberals will be returned with a majority.Count on it .
The cons just go from one stupid blunder to the next .

Yea, I was amazed at Harpo's insistence on doing away with the native fishery as the high court in BC ruled it was perfevtly legal and the white boys shouls shu the phuque up abou it .
It figures the court challenge came from a failed neo-con candidate .

The rights of Canada's aboriginal peoples to fish isn't based on their race. It's based on aboriginal rights and title which haven't been extinguished and that are protected by our constitution.

Harper's statements are based on the self-serving, racist view that aboriginal rights and title don't exist. They show that, like successive governments before his, his government intends to treat Canada's first people as though they were the last ones to arrive in this country.

—Lyle Brewer | Vernon, B.C.

Working Man
The reason that we haven't been better served, by having more progressive governments in British Columbia for longer than those 13 years since BC entered Confederation, has nothing to do with the record of those 13 years. If it had, then succeeding governments would have removed the legislation passed during those years - and replaced it with something more business friendly – and they haven't.

More progressive governments will be elected and you know it. That's why you post nothing but lies and innuendo - except when you're sucking up to Frank which I’ve also noticed is another tendency - on this site. You're a frightened little man who knows your time is nearly over.

But the head of the coalition, Phil Eidsvik, says the problem is the current federal Aboriginal Fisheries Strategy, which allows only First Nations to fish commercially on certain days during the salmon season.

He says if everyone is allowed to fish together on all days of a run, there's nothing to fight about.

"All the guys I talked to say it's long past time that we started to fish together again. I look forward to that. Fishing together is a good thing, not a bad thing," said Eidsvik, who ran unsuccessfully as a Conservative candidate in Surrey in this year's federal election.

The Fraser River salmon fishery used to yield $200 million a season. Eidsvik says recently it's only netted $25 million, and he blames federal management for that.

The federal government introduced its Aboriginal Fisheries Strategy in 1992, in response to the landmark Supreme Court of Canada Sparrow decision in 1990 that said First Nations' rights to fish take priority.

That he would even call it race based is racist in the extreme.
I smell Tom Flanagan all over this one .
He will lose as the courts have already ruled it is perfectly legal .
I agree the Fisheries department should be run by natives in its entirety .
They know the best way to manage fish stocks.Maybe then there would be somethigng to actually catch .

working man

Another reason progressive governments haven't been elected in Canada - apart from the provincial scene - is that Business and Politics have their hands firmly in each other's pockets - just like that stupid ad on TV. You're always giving each other the reach around and, as BellGlobemedia's current takeover of Chum also illustrates - both business and the old-line parties are enabled by a captive and compromised media and the PR 'profession'. You might want to read David Beers' interview with Jim Hoggan if you doubt that too.

And furthermore, working man, why would you come here asking why we don't have more progressive governments in this country?

It is people like you, who pretend to be working class, who constantly suck up to what they see are the elites in this province and country in the hope that you may one day join their exclusive little club who retard the growth of good government for all Canadians: People whose political activism seldom exceeds the action of posting an offensive sicker on their pickup bumper every few years.

Progressive people are doing their level best to counteract the fact that each stupid person gets the same number of votes as sensible, forward-looking people who think about more than the size of their wallet when they cast their ballots. If there haven't been more good governments in this country it is not the fault of progressives.

I can’t explain why you and IAMC and realistic man and neocon and cappy vote the way you do – but unfortunately, the rest of us – women, children, the poor, the sick, the elderly, the thoughtful and the real activists, have to endure the tender mercies of governments that don’t care about anything more important than that god awful term – the bottom line. Don’t come here asking for answers to that question – look in your own heart.

"It's based on aboriginal rights and title which haven't been extinguished and that are protected by our constitution."

Funny how these right-wingers are all for the right of property except when that property has to do with Aboriginals. The European invader stole their property, and the least we can do is let them have a few fish in return.

Only 31% of those polled approve of Mr. Bush's job performance and 68% believe the United States is worse off today than it was before Mr. Bush became president.

hannibal
On fisheries and native issues, as well as Canada's decision to vote with Russia on aboriginal issues the other day at the United Nations, (after the Commons' Committee had approved a yes vote) I think you may well be right. That and, of course, Harper's letter yesterday to a Calgary paper.

I think First Nations may be sorry they voted for Phil Fontaine and not Bill Wilson for Grand Chief yesterday - this may turn into a real crisis.

I think your analysis may well be correct – IF not Flanagan’s actual hand – certainly his teachings are reflected in the actions of his acolyte pee wee.

I assume you saw or read O’Connor’s latest comments about the most recent fatality from Afghanistan – what a classless individual?

There you go with the name calling again. It really does not reflect well on you two.

That is certainly my hope. Your task is reshaping your party so it can be that progressive force. I have put that task out many times but none of you can or want to answer it. Until you do, you will perpetually sit in opposition.

Instead of name calling, agumentum ad hominum and Straw Man Attacks, I once more challenge you to:

Tell me what your party can to do make itself more electable. The NDP has not had any success federally and limited success provincially. Tell me why the NDP has done well in Sask and Manitoba and how you can apply that to the BC and Federal scene.

Why does this frighten you so much? And I will never resort to name calling.

You are the frightened one, working man. Look back over a few of your posts to understand why I might say that.

Again, don't blame progressives for the failure to elect better and more representative governments. We're pushing as hard as we can - the forces of reaction in this province have always been enormous - as you'd know if you actually read any history. If you really thought it was important to change the character of the governments we suffer under in this province you'd actually do something about it instead of sitting on the sidelines whining - 'you guys don't know anything about getting elected'; 'you're hopeless' etc. etc.

The fact of the matter is, you don't like the truth when someone points it out to you; instead you post nonsense and half-digested ideas you think are clever and cutting edge and you genuflect when Frank's around. For some pathetic reason you seem to want him to think you're a human being.

Is it because you see him as a fellow businessman?

You never do anything but call people names - do I really have to go back and copy/paste the evidence?

Why don’t you go post something at ProudtobeCanadian.ca – you’ll find yourself right at home there and it might help you understand why people aren’t very patient with your lies and half-truths around here.

If you had the ability to understand anything, then perhaps i would repeat a few of my suggestions.
In any event it is actually none of your business how the NDP aims to progress, if you were told, you would only doyour best to hinder it!
So why talk to the enemy, eh?
Have a good life weasel! (yes you deserve that name!)

Again, the name calling. It really does not reflect well on either of you. Gloomy, we live in a democracy, one where, unfortunately for you, your party does not hold power very often. Perhaps this is a symptom of the negativity you and your party so commonly display.

I know it is a long haul to that last Wednesday of the month.

Instead of the straw man attack, why not point out some of the "lies and half truths" and refute them all.

Any why not try to answer the question I have asked so many times. Until you do, your party will never hold power and that appears to be the scource of your name calling, negativity and anger.

Yes,G. Soldiers contemplating suicide is a sure sign of high morale amongst the ranks.
That nitwit Lewis McKenzie was on Rutherford today spouting off about how we are no longer peacekeepers but warriors and how that myth equates to our health care system.I am still nauseous .
I wish Romeo Dallaire,a soldiers soldier,would bitch slap him and, "Nah, we aren't fighting a war", O'Conner .
Dallaire is ten times the man McKenzie ever thought of being.
After all who is the Senator ?
Harpo has bitten off more than he can swallow with this latest move .
The courts will never back him up .
I agree about Fontaine and Wilson as well.
Wilson is much more of an activist than Fontaine.

G West:

Beaten before, keen for more?

Oh do tell us of all the books you've read.....................(yawn)

Such a dilettante, G West, like your candidate Ignatieff.

Focus.

It's the internecine Liberal Party, stupid!

Best,

We James

james
the only thing you're capable of beating is eggs.

More than anything, Harper's actions against First Nations are revealing how dangerous this man is. I agree, hannibal, step by step, he is on a mission to put Flanagan's policies in place....beginning with First Nations. Already, under a mere minority government he is changing the meaning of "Canadian."

The real danger of Harper is that he doesn't care if he is representing Canada. He is unreachable on that level. He's never liked this country anyway.

Here is the link for this article from The Tyee's "Reported Elswhere"...the vote at the UN Human Rights Council, that G West referred to. ( 45 nations voted for the proposal, only Russia and Canada voted against).

http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=18828

G.Do you have a link regards the Harpo letter to the Herald ?
Thanks

"G West"

Having beaten you, I think you insult eggs everywhere.

Keep at it plugger...

Best

James

James: Be a good dog and go lick your nuts in the corner .

Lynn: Thanks for the link .
Now it is official Canada is a laughing stock on the world stage .

james
not only have you never 'beaten' me, you're not even on the same page.

i take it school is over now and you're signing onto the internet before mom comes home from work - not a good idea for an impressionable young thing like you - someone should always be looking over your shoulder to make certain you don't get into trouble

yeh, hannibal, nice company ... the First Nations conflicts are going to be very interesting...as predicted.

Campbell, I see, is in Haida Gwai today further cementing his relations with the community there.

And the oil tanks are burning in Beiruit - God what a mess - this is going to turn into a regional crisis very soon, I fear.

thanks for posting that link lynn, I should have done it myself - and, btw, I've enjoyed your writing on the god's bullies story too.

Well as the neo-feds have abdicated all responsibilty for the FN's it is left up to our Premiers to do something positive .
At least Campbell gives the appearance of trying to do something positive for the people .
Despicable little worms that they are they couldn't even sign onto a non-binding treaty that is more symbolic than anything .
At least to my mind .
Yea, the middle east is ready to explode in all directions .
I fear for the out come .
The EU should keep the hell out of it and mind their own busineess.Their opinion is less than meaningless IMHO.

Well said, lynn.

Beating on the poorest people in our society is really what Harper is all about. He is flunky of American corporations. One only has to read some of this NSC speeches to see that. In my opinion Stephan Dion is the only man who can take Herr Harper to task and form a government to stop him. I think we all know it ain't gonna be Millionaire Jack.

I would say that Harper's real quest is to make First Nations invisible. From the rejection of The Kelowna Accord, to his UNHRC "no" vote, to his arrogant disregard for the Supreme Court ruling on this fishery, he is demonstrating not only a total disregard for aboriginal rights but he is intentionally not recognizing the nationhood of First Nations at all.

This falls completely in line with Flanagan's consistent policy of arguing against native land claims, and calling for an end to aboriginal rights. Flanagan believes in the total assimilation of First Nations.

That we now have three very aggressive steps taken against First Nations despite it being only a minority government is very revealing. It makes very clear where a majority Harper government will lead.

And I am not naive enough to believe that Campbell BC Liberals are taking the high ground in this...their policy has been to assimilate First Nations in BC via assimilation and control within corporate "partnerships." Just a different tactic to the same end.

The part that really galls me is that Flanagan isn't even a Canadian,he's American.
And Harpo the great is following his every word as if it were carved in stone .
The hidden agenda is now crystal clear .
To abuse the FN's mercilessly until they surrender all claims to their treaty rights and land claims .
As the FN's represent only 5% of our population they are going to need all the help they can get .
This is a genocide by stealth .
First nations second thoughts is nothing but a recist diatribe written by a so-called intellectual who;s white supremacist attitude is all too obvious .
Assimilate this you goofs .

So, three days after this article was posted by RM, I read today that Kennedy is now being called THE front runner.
He signed up the most delegates, ahead of Volpe. The guys on fire.
Rafe has called a good one here, perhaps. This race is at least something for political junkies to satisfy themselves with, at best a demonstration of the weak leading the weak. I haven't heard anything profound coming from any of these candidates, although Scott Bryson is far enough right for me.
The contest is going to get very interesting, what ideas will someone come up with ?

REST OF COMMENT DELETED: OBCENE AND DEROGATORY. IF YOU CAN'T REFRAIN FROM THIS KIND OF COMMENTARY, YOU WILL BE BLOCKED FROM CONTRIBUTING COMMENTS, GLOOMY. -- Tyee editor

Gee Gloomy, if you get away with that one, I will be truly shocked. You must have had a very bad experiece with an AMERICAN at one time.
I am so sorry for you. Your are truly a useless CANT.

DELETED COMMENT -- Tyee editor

I stand corrected .
Dion and Rae are in the lead without question.
Volpe will be the king maker swinginh his votes to whoever offers him the best deal(title)
Harpo is all finished as being PM of Canada he will be a one year blunder .
People despise this goof with a passion .
He has ruined Canada's world wide rep .

I never thought the day would come that I'd agree with Clueless but you guys must have had some bad experiences with americans. From a transplanted american easy on the name calling, please.

IAMC, take it easy on gloomy. He is not a very happy person and feels that life has passed him by. I find him as comical as hell so don't discourage him from posting.

Oh, and wait for his comeback. It will be juevenile and peurile, a real thigh slapper.

Speaking of transplanted Americans, I think Flanagan - although he certainly came from the States and was educated there - has been a naturalized Canadian for years and has lived and worked in Calgary since 1968.

I don't agree with much of what Flanagan believes and especially the genesis of his ideas about Native people and their role in Canadian society but the fact that he's American has nothing to do with it.

You can listen to him discussing his First Nations policy in a RealAudio clip you can access here:

http://www.fcpp.org/video/firstnations.html

Judge for yourselves.

[I]

Flanagan worked for Preston Manning in the early days of the Reform Party of Canada, but left following the 1993 general election. Currently, Flanagan is a close confidant of Stephen Harper, the Prime Minister of Canada and leader of the Conservative Party. He worked as Harper's national campaign director in the 2004 federal election, and was a senior campaign advisor in the 2006 election.

Flanagan is a senior fellow of the conservative think tank, the Fraser Institute.

Au contraire G . I beleive his americanism has everything to do with his racist attitudes .
He may be naturalized but it doesn't really come into play .
Lots of people are naturalized citizens and they don't go spouting off about FN's.
His view is myopic in the extreme .
His idea's are dangerous as are those of his puppet Harpo .

I am not saying that all American's are racist but his view that the FN's are the first immigrants is like saying black American's were the first economic tourists.
FN's have fought too hard for their rights to be taken away on a whim .
FN's have never been given the opportunity at self-government so it is all conjecture.
Admittedly there are elites in all segments of society but the contention that all programs enrich only a few is stupid .
We have the Hobbema's who are given royalty cheques when they reach the age of eighteen.Some squander the money and others invest it just like white folks would .
The Sawridge band owns all the Sawridge hotels in the province and the income is shared with the band members .
Two new casinos have been uilt by the FN's and they will get the majority of the income .
Given the $ and opportunity they are great contributors and could be self sustaining in a relatively short time frame .

From the UN declaratiion .

So happy I can give you a cheap laugh!
I must admit that i have in fact met amerikkkans who are almost human in their approach to "foreingers".

hannibal
It may do, his Americanism I mean. But, someone who's lived and worked in Canada since 1968 is, in my view, entitled to be considered a Canadian despite the offensive and, I think, operationally racist, aspects of his views.

I don't agree with his approach to First Nations issues either and I certainly oppose - as you know from reading me - what Harper is apparently up to in this file. But, I know a great many thoughtful Americans and former Americans who'd analyze Flanagan the same way I do as well. The homogenizing cultural approach to this issue has had lots of support from Canadians as well as Americans so I don't think it's just an us/them dichotomy.

In any case, I think the issues need to be judged and responded to on their merits and not with the kind of name calling that Blonde pitbull pointed out above. I understand and empathize with your (and others') frustration.

That doesn't mean I think it is responsible to stoop to the kind of name calling that has come to be so well associated with right-wing neocon spokespersons like Ann Coulter.

I see she is now saying that New York Times reporters who disclosed (among other papers I hasten to point out) certain aspects of Bush secret war on terror ought to be subject to a firing squad.

Let's make sure we keep the wingnut pronouncements on the wingnut side of the debate.

My view only. I think the correct view and the one we want to have prevail in Canadians' hearts and minds is on one side of this debate - let's not dilute the quality of our arguments by stooping to Ann Coulter / Michelle Malkin / Rush Limbaugh / Bill O'Reilly / Marcus Gee / Tom Corcoran [I could go on] standards.

I agree G.,It wasn't my comment but I apologize to BlondPitbull for using the quote .
I like American's and feel sorry for them for having the government that they do .
Problem here is once the bell has rung you can't edit it out .
You know how much I respect your writing and attitude so feel it is only fair I apologize to you as well as anyone else offended by the quote .
Personally I would never write that .
I know our attitudes are ,fairly,close on most issues .
I am just,extremely, frustrated that Harpo is on the world stage now embarassing our country on a daily basis and that Flanagan has inordinate influence on him .
I know there are thousands of transplanted American's living and working in our country who came here during Viet Nam and I would hate to offend them .
Thanks for pullimg me over .

Thank you, G West, and your apology is accepted, hannibal, as I understand your position. Cheers and have an excellent weekend to all.

Thanks Pitbull.You too .

Liberal leadership candidate Bob Rae made a statement this morning regarding the softwood lumber dispute. He said that he is encouraging MP's to vote against this deal in Parliament, even if it is a confidence vote.
Bring it on Bob. Nothing would be better than an election this fall. With the popularity of the CPC and particular the leader, this would guarantee a Conservative majority government. Someone on this thread said that most people hate Stephen Harper. Nothing could be further from the truth. The man is very popular, as he should be.
Bob Rae is a goofball, I can't imagine him as PM, he would spend too much.
We don't want that.

Harper is about as popular as a summer cold. How do you explain his policy on First Nations?

What policy on First Nations ? It seems to me that there should be equality amongst Canadians. That would be my FN policy. I heard Bill Wilson interviewed by Dave Rutherford on CHED Radio this morning. He was a real jerk. He kept on repeating that he was smarter and knew much more than David. I couldn't believe this interview. I have never heard of a more rude and arrogant idiot. I guess he's grumpy about losing the leadership to a much more sensible Phil Fontaine. Thank God Mr. Wilson didn't win or we would have blockades all over the country. The man is a racist.

Or child care. Or
his Cirque de Soleil budget(smoke and mirrors)
Or his insane stance with the media.
Or illegal fund raising.
Or his stupid position regards FN's.
Or his love affair with G.W. Bush.
Or his absurdist view on climate change with no support for Kyoto .
Or his insistence that all media scrums be cleared through his office making 124,people redundant .
Or his stupid crime package that every social scientist has totally rejected.
Or his axing the long gun registry.
Yea, he'll get a majority alright.
When HELL freezes over you nitwit.

Bill Wilson put that goof Rutherford totally in his place.
He couldn't handle Mr.Wilson and so he hung up on him. Yea, really adult there Ruherford .
Nope the goofs are headed for the opposition benches to languish forever .

Or the dirty little war in Afghanistan that is turning into a real achilles heel .
Or putting a non-elected member in the Senate when he sowre he would never do that.
Or David Emerson the traitor sitting in cabinet.
Just a few of the reason's the neo-cons days are numbered .

Herr Harper has had pretty much a free ride so far, one that appears to be ending. Like I said here before, Afghanistan and First Nations will undo him.

Let's also hope the Liberals with their new leader run a campaign that is better than their two last pathetic goes of it because they represent the only party that can actually stop Herr Harper.

It may well be that the First Nations will soon regret not having picked Bill Wilson as Grand Chief. They may well need someone like him to deal with Harper and Co.

I guess you're willing to trade places with our first nations citizens then IAMC. I'm sure Mr Wilson could arrange a trade for you with one of his Cape Mudge band members. I'll get back to you when the arrangements are finalized, you goof!

I'd love to have a status card, are you kidding. Could you actually arrange this. Sign me up.
G West is my new best friend, thanks

You don't get a status card. You just get to trade houses with a First Nations family.

Many, however, know him as Bill Wilson, a blunt-spoken hereditary chief with a law degree who immersed himself in native causes and politics for more than four decades instead of becoming a lawyer.

Some of the most provocative of Wilson's sharp-edged rhetoric have become national news. During a 1990 lecture to a group of lawyers, Wilson said it was a "stupid mistake" for aboriginals to have welcomed the first European colonizers.

"We should have killed you all," he said, describing the mostly poor Caucasian colonizers as ''homely, diseased, smelly people in boats.''

Yo Bill! Hey man, let's let bygones be bygones.

ROTFLMAO.Way to go G.
Told that sucker what's what .
Agree that Mr.Wilson would be the better choice as he takes no prisoners .
He was eloquent and well spoken and Rutherford couldn't handle it .
It was hilarious to hear the imbecile sputtering and spewing all kinds of garbage after he hung up on Mr. Wilson .
It,really, made my day .
Rutherford couldn't sk even one pertinent qustion whicj is why Mr.Wilson got fed up with him and basically called him as ******* .

If Parliament resumes on September 18 and a vote on lumber is lost there could be an election called for the end of November. The Liberals would be in the middle of their leadership campaign, with the leader selected by December 3. They would have to run Bill Graham?

Will Jack keep his word and precipitate an election for the second time? Could be fun.

"May you live in interesting times"

You sure you want to go ahead with this Clueless? It'll take months to do the paper work you know, and, when you actually become an Indian there is no going back.

Status may not be all it is cracked up to be my friend.

Just to correct the usual misinformation spread around here, David Rutherford did not hang up on the racist, he said goodbye in a polite way at the conclusion of the interview.
You can here it on the archive at CHED Radio 630 AM, just Google it. It's a great radio station.
Sure G, I got the time to wait for my status card if you can swing it. It's worth 10 Billion dollars. Imagine a country that issues a minority with a special card ? Sounds like old South Africa to me. Apartheid is not an activity Canada should be engaged in.
I say, no status cards, all Canadians to be equal. Lets get over this racist mentality of Canadians towards Indians and Indians towards Canadians. I realize Indians are Canadians. They were almost our first immigrants.
Unfortunately the Spaniards didn't do treaties. They preferred total integration into the European Christian culture. The English were more civilised and preferred the legality and respect of treaties.
We will do our best to honour these commitments, and I believe we have.

Indians as immigrants? What utter nonsense. We have treated First Nations abominably and a status card is small payment for a stolen land and a lost heritage. You are the racist IAMC. The deal's off, you don't have the necessary character to be an Indian.

G; I know your tactic of labelling anyone that questions the status quo on First Nations issues a racist, but quite frankly I am disgusted by it.
I am promoting equality for all Canadians.
I am appalled by Indian Reservations as a concept. How is this fair ? At least let them own their land. How could you be so cruel. They should be able to divide the lands and take ownership of ' personal property ' just like the rest of us.
C'mon G., Canada has to get over this indigenous peoples concept, as has everywhere else in the world. Australia, New Zealand, USA, need I go on ?
WE are the problem by not doing whatever we can to end this culture of prejudice.

No you're not IAMC You are just like your prejudiced little friend on the radio - you don't tell the truth and you pretend to yourself that you are a good person. You’re not if you believe what you write and you can't accept what we've done to the First Nations of this country. We have treated them with a racism all the while we were pretending we were saving them from their savage traditions.

We took their land. We killed most of them off with our diseases and then we destroyed their culture and traditions, their language and their religion. And now we, and pee wee Harper too apparently, want to say take this crappy land we gave you (because we kicked you off the land we wanted for our own selfish purposes) and do with it as you will. Sink or swim.

To even call this a solution is racist in the extreme and a symptom of an attitude of complete disrespect for the culture of a people we have done our best to destroy.

Your idea, and Harper's would allow a further exploitation of a people who deserve a lot better, who deserve the tools and the capital to make their own decisions and to govern and educate themselves - completely separate from our corrupt culture if that's the way they want it.

You and Harper still want to shove 'our' solutions down the First Nations throats for your own selfish reasons.

Let them have their own land...you're kidding - if you actually mean that then we Europeans better climb back in our leaky boats and paddle the hell out of here because it is all their land

You can't have equality until you address the inequity and paternalism of the past. Indians deserve to run their own show and if it means a lot of us Europeans are displaced into the bargain it is no more than what we deserve as a culture and a society which is covered with the shame of our fathers' and grandfathers' complicity in a criminal conspiracy. I had no idea that dinosaurs like you and this Dave Rutherford character still existed.

G; Think about it, it's not even a given that the group of people claiming to be related to some people that lived here a very long time ago, may not just be tourists themselves. I am trying to advance the argument that nobody can say where this land ever started or ended at. There were no contracts in law. Various people showed up in various locations over a period of time.
What are we arguing about ?
Conquering nations existed in the West far before the white man came along.
Read Paul Kane ' Wanderings of an Artist ' and you will get another view.
He painted a picture that is worth viewing.

Paul Kane was a johnny come lately. My first degree was in art history.

First Nations peoples have been on this continent for more than 10 thousand years and there is plenty of archeological evidence to support that. The absence of legal contract is no impediment. There was a sophisticated civilization in North America long before Europeans arrived. We are the descendants of imperialists who treated the people who called this place home as uneducated savages. We stole their land, murdered and sickened their people and practically wiped them out.

I don't ask us to be responsible for anything other than that - and that is quite enough - only a liar would try to argue otherwise. This 'latest immigrants' theory of Tom Flanagan and his neoconservative stable mates is nothing but oportunistic garbage. Even more dishonest because Flanagan tries to sell it as genuine 'Christian' concern for the native people. Afer the horror of the residential schools no native with any self-esteem would accept that kind of crap from anyone who called himself a christian.

What the natives may or may not have done to each other is of absolutely no consequence for anyone except somebody who is only concerned with making excuses.

How can you listen to this Rutherford moron, by the way? All he ever does is scream and talk over his guests - what a goof - totally uneducated and ignorant.

WHo is Rutherford anyway? He calls the CBC a left-wing organization and pretends there is nothing wrong with increasing media concentration. Never once acknowledging his own bias as someone broadcasting over the Corus network and promoting neoconservative values in a blatant way that would never be tollerated in our public broadcaster.

Thank God for the CBC is all I can say. With idiots like this character on the radio I really am worried about where this country is headed. No one has to tell Rutherford what to say because he has the neo con line memorized completely - if I had to listen to him again I'd take my hammer to the radio.

This guy is no journalist, IAMC, he's a crank and hannibal was entirely accurate in his assessment. You sir, are a liar in my view! That was no interview. It was instead an excellent example of media bias and a shill for the CPC getting his comeuppance from Bill Wilson. Alberta is a wasteland, an intellectual black hole apparently.

I can understand why pee wee would want to show up on this guy’s show. As for the morons who called in afterwards and the chuckling, laughing, ignorant holier than thou exhibition they made of themselves after Wilson hung up. I am ashamed of these people who call themselves Canadians – they are no nothing ignoramuses, period. I’m surprised even you would listen to such utter garbage.

Realisticman the Liberal's have a contingency plan in place should Harpo precipitate the downfall of this Government(?)
It would be a hurry up convention that will in all likelihood see only one ballot .
I am ,really, hoping that Bob or Stephen win this contest as they are both far superior intellectually than Harpo .
Harpo can only dream of a majority government .

Further to this.
Tibetan and Nepali natives crossed the Bering Strait land bridge that existed millenia ago .
The Inuit look almost identical to Tibetans and Nepalis from the Kumbu(Sherpa) region .
What are they, just, tourists ?

Haida Gwai share a lot of traditions common to the Samoan's of the Hawaiian Islands .
I suppose they were tourists as well .

So why aren't Haida Gwai making land claims in Samoa ? It's an extension of North America apparently.
This premise that Canadians have bought into, is a flaky argument when you really get down to it.
If the world was once connected by land, what is the logic of the argument that the Indians have title to this land.
Did they have private property rights then? NO, and they don't now. Let's change this by giving them the Crown land on which their reserves stand on. If this land is unsuitable, then lets give them some other Crown land. Not privately held land. Those that own this private land followed all the rules they had to.

Could we have some evidence of this? I suggest you do some research about what happened with respect to the promises made to Tecumseh and Joseph Brandt?

When you're done with that you can check out what happened to the Blackfoot in Alberta, the Inuit and the Cherokee - just to mention a few examples.

Because the cultural norms that pre-contant native society seem to beyond your ability to understand does not mean that First Nations don't have legitimate Charter recognized and Court sanctioned claims.

We stole this land once and you want to steal it again.

Your argument is the flaky, selfish and ethnocentric one. They have rights to this land that supercede most private property rights - they deserve a lot more than the scraps you and Stephen Harper seem prepared to give them.

Mr. Kennedy not popular with the business community? That's OK. His handlers can rework his image.

Look at Stephen Harper. This one time ethnophobe and Quebecophobe is now getting into bed with his long time ago adversaries.

Apologize to the Chinese-Canadian community for the head tax? No problem.

A seat for Quebec at UNESCO? D'accord.

I'm just waiting for Harper to appear at a future (currently non-existant) Woodbridge, Ontario gay pride parade. Lotsa cute Italian muscle that will have disposible income to donate to the Conservative Party. Or will Kennedy beat Harper to this constituency? If Harper is worried about his image, his handlers can just tell him that he is surrounded by World Cup soccer fans. Viva Italia!

For as lpong as I can remember I have no recollection of a Liberal ,NDP or any other party member being hustled out of a meeting .
It has happened 3, times in recent memory Monte Solberg being confronted by protesters at a church(?) in Ottawa .
Rona Ambrose in Edmonton who insisted on taking a van across a parking lot for her protection .
And now Jimmy Prentice being whisked away from a FN's meeting .
And they get the idea they are on the cusp of a majority .
Hardy,har,har. That is to laugh at these incompetent fools .

I wish the FN's had elected Bill Wilson as Grand Chief as he is a formidable presence a a terrific spokesman for FN's .
He speaks the unvarnished truth without political corretness .

G West:

You are apparently blinded by your heart on the issue of aboriginal land rights.

You evidently care, but to a fault.

Does any other side of this complex issue have any merit for you? Your pulse will have to slow a bit in order to appreciate it, I suspect.

Best,

James