Blair Lekstrom got it wrong. We the public don't have a "general right" to know how our money is being managed. We have a "absolute right". And right now I am looking into the constitutionality of this farce. We the people elect governments to serve us. Not to render us impotent.
When Campbell made a "promise" and used that word he was telling us what he was going to do. Not what he wasn't going to do. Or that he was going to do the opposite. Man this guys nose just keeps getting longer by the minute.
I don't think I really have to mention that there must be a lot of business lobbying for this bill. Oops, I just did.

Maybe what Campbell meant by transparent government was that any intelligent individual can see right through his plans. How much more of this dictatorship can British Columbia survive? Some things do not work like a business and through privatization we loose control of our most required services. Again, I cry for our children.

This comes as no surprise, the Lib's P-3's are coming apart at the seams. RAV is now over $1 billion over it's first estimated costs and the cost is still rising. There is now clear evidence that there is no private investment for RAV!

The BC Rail give away now looks like one of the worst deals Campbell & Falcon have done and with recent rail accisents, is coming back to haunt them big time.

The BC Ferries fiasco and give away; this has Campbell & Co. by the short and curlies, as the 'blame it on the FastFerry' cliche has worn very thin with the public.

2010, well the NDP is digging up cost overrun and cost overrun on this item. It now looks that the the public is going to be left with a $200 million+ hangover when the 2 week spectacle is over.

And so on and so on! The Liberals are crooks who went on a massive giva away binge to their corporate puppet masters!

I'm outraged of course, but I am certainly not surprised by the development of these Bills 23 and 30, which restrict the public right to know its own business. It fits within the entire character of the new direction of developments occurring withing the new Neo-Conservative State-, which is really a return to the old, old ruling class type more typical of much earlier Dickensonian Capitalism-, pre the "socialized capitalism" of the post WW2. It is more putting that late version of "liberal capitalism" which finally so alarmed the suddenly more "conservative ruling class", out of sight and out of mind.

They are in the process of deconstructing it right now.

In a way, for a person such as myself, though I stand fundamentally opposed to everything about the New/Old Capitalism, and the relationship it is about to re-establish between the governing and the governed, I accept it also as a perverse kind of opportunity. Like all the Federal Conservative government's sham assurances of "the most open governance", echoing what we have heard from the equally neo-conservative Liberal government in Victoria, the illusions of "accessibility" and shared governance with "the people" that have so hoodwinked the popular mindset over the Great Prosperity Period of post WW2 capitalist development are being layer by layer stripped away and discarded. And in its place we are to be left eventually with a more naked and at least "class-honest" form of privileged ruling class power.

Which is why it is at the same time to be seen as a bit of a relief by the more "radicalized" elements within capitalism, such as myself. It will serve to make more clear much what we have been talking about, concerning the dangers of the quasi-fascist/neoconservative period of capitalist development as has been rather tentatively unfolding, but ever more steadily since the first Restraint Bills of the old Bill Bennet Jr government here in BC, and Klein in Alberta along with Harris in Ontario. (Themselves taking their que of course, from Reagan in the US and the Iron Lady of Britain. Making clear, even yet, that this is a globalized capitalist development, seeking to infect France and Germany even as we speak, though up against greater and more effective resistance there in Old Europe.)

Neoconservatism arising out of the ruling class of the new, actually very old capitalism has become sufficiently emboldened by first, the collapse of the Labour Movement around Operation Solidarity in 1983, which has continued to cave in on itself ever since, becoming more and more an emaciated, rib cage shadow of its former self, and the rise in public apathy amongst the citizenry which grew out of that "loss of hope", along with mistrust within what had to there been seen as more or less "the people's movement", all of which has come to characterize the deeply settled in "public apathy" so apparent as the other side of the times as well.

The polite, nicely spoken NDP, especially under Carole James style of heavily compromised leadership as well, continues to unravel and slide right towards the Federal Liberals at least, right before our very eyes. Which makes equally clear where they have really been wanting to go for a long time now as well.

Continued next post...

Also it means that local governments will not be able to voice concerns about power projects and such, apparently they are already making their concerns about this bill known.

From previous post...

So, with Bills 23 and 30 we are merely settling into a new stage in this development of Neoconservative Capitalism. It will run its course, in my view, over which course will be made clear, to those it has not already, the dangerous degree to which the progressive social development potential of capitalism has hit the proverbial wall, and is becoming essentially more and more anti-social and blatantly preoccupied with but ruling class issues and concerns.

"Fuk the Great Unwashed!", it screams out ever more loudly.

Which to me, frankly, for such as I certainly cannot stop or reverse it anyway, is a good thing. Or at least, it has to happen. This period of pain is regrettably necessary, it would seem. Presumably to forge new and necessary survival instincts and resolve amongst those to whom it is being ever more applied.

It's that Pavlovian thing come to live amongst us again. :-)

The control of information has always been the greatest power in the hands of power elites, through history.

The word "democracy" originated with the classic Greek words "demos" meaning "people" and "kratos", meaning "power", combined meaning "people power".

Neoclassical market economic capitalism, or "free enterprise", is based on the unlimited power of business elites to control the economy and enslave people, through the manipulation of imaginary money used as weapons and chains.

Like its idiot twin, state capitalist communism, neither can exist under any form of people control, or openness, because decisions are made for the benefit of special interest power elites, therefore have to be kept in secret to keep the sucker public quiet and climbing the scaling ladders.

As long as economies, which means the management and distribution of scarce resources, are based on ideological theories favouring ruling classes, true democracy can not exist.

Therefore, it is obvious that the proponents and governments that follow screwball economic theories, can not possibly permit any form of people control, which would be based on open information.

E.g. Exxon's Lee Raymond "made" close to $6,000 per minute, and his "retirement package" was $400. million, while he was trying to fire as many workers as possible and cut the wages, or outsource the jobs of the remaining.

This, my friends, is NOT DEMOCRACY, or any form of acceptable economic system, except in the warped minds of economics professors, certain politicians and trolls who sing their praises. As they did for Hitler, Stalin and Mao's Cultural Revolution.

Now lets' hear the trolls complain about "lefties" trying to stop wealth creating progress through government secrecy.

Remarkable how quiet they are on certain subjects.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

--Benito Mussolini (1883-1945), Fascist Dictator of Italy

This present group in Victoria is not business-like..it is business.
They see B.C. as a corporation and are "operating" it as a corporation.

Removed. Please refrain from potentially libelous statements. Tyee editor.

If you oppose these Bills, then I'd suggest writing your MLA, today. We need to put the pressure on these dimwits now, before it's too late.

Fait above and bob the cat below now assist in putting this "useful" piece of reportage into a context that really helps us more precisely understand what is occurring here, I think. Without this "context", what would otherwise be merely another random parliamentary event or piece of legislation is suddenly seen to fit within an "elite" or ruling class pattern of behaviour, with which "the people" should by now be familiar. (Though regrettably, are too often not.)

This is not a new development historically, but only to what has previously existed in "the memory" of current generations in this country , younger than myself cerainly, :-) and presumably Fait 8-D LOL-, though I would not attempt to speak for him. (Though Europe, certainly Germany, France and Italy are more familiar with the early warning signs, being why the opposition to it has been more aggressive and effective there. Though they too are as capable, one generation to the next, of forgetting, no doubt.)

--Benito Mussolini (1883-1945), Fascist Dictator of Italy

And it is into this "...first stage of fascism...", or "Corporatism", described for us by Mussolini, and provided to us by bob the cat, into which we are again, degree by degree, entering in this new "Neoconazi" period. Just as a demonstration, as though it were really needed, that what goes around, comes around-, only never twice at quite the exact same spiralling level or way. :-) It seems to me.

A good day brothers and sisters. I will return to this again, later today.

Theres another bullsh!t bill proposed by the corrupt fascists that you probably havent heard about yet but it will affect ALL OF US!
A couple of years ago we found out that gordo was about to give away most of our rivers to independent power producers(ipp's )including the magnificent Ashlu in the upper Squamish valley.
The deal was simple: ipps make campaign contributions to the provincial liberal party in exchange for unfettered access to BC's rivers.
Then, with massive taxpayer subsidization, said PRIVATE-FOR-PROFIT power companies set up power plants with short term contracts to provide electricity to BC. After the term of these contracts expire, usually after 15 - 20 years said ipp's are free to sell the electricity anywhere they want at the highest price they can get!!!!
There was however, one unforseen problem.
Local government, under existing law, had the power to stop development if they felt it was not in the regions interest which is exactly what happened when the SLRD stopped the ill-conceived Ashlu project.
Well that was last year and this fragment of remaining democracy infuriated the provincial liberals and their multi-national corporate puppet-masters, ledcor.
Since then they have tried ever sleazy trick you can imagine to reverse the SLRD decision, including bribery of the local native band to get onboard, coersion of the SLRD board members and a cynical, phoney local add campaign portraying ledcor as a benevolent corporate presence as opposed to a greedy, opportunistic, bully of a psychopathic institution which it is.
As brazen and contemptuous of democracy that gordo and his crooks have been not even they would yet dare invoke the controversial bill 75, the "steam-rolling" act whereby the province, in it'$ infinite wi$dom, can over-ride ANY local government decision.
Fast forward to last week and guess what? gordo and his cronies have introduced a new bill "aimed at usurping the authority of municipal and local governments over zoning for independent power projects on Crown land in BC" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Attempting to mask this dispicable attack on democracy and our people's right to make decisions about our own water and regional development dick "nixon" neufeld was quoted, laughably, as saying: "If it's being portrayed as something that will remove any power of local government, that's wrong. What it will do is compile all that input and information and place it before one decision maker".
Yeah right!!!! And guess who that "one decision maker" is!!
Finally I will add that a few years ago I attended a fancy gig at furry creek golf club attended by mr. neufeld and members of the ipp association of BC. (Aug 14, 2003 - Furry Creek Power Project)
When the issue of obtaining approval for these projects came up (i.e. environmental assessment process) Steve Davis, president of the BC ipp assoc. and podium speaker, noted to the crowd reassuringly and cynically that the ministry of sustainable resource development which granted said approvals should be renamed as "the ministry of RUBBER STAMPS".
Then he, neufeld, gary collins and a bunch of white haired old men all had a good long gut laugh!!!
Welcome to the new era!!!

The reason for the secrecy is clear. Each contract will contain the following clause:
"Each member of cabinet will be appointed to a company director with a yearly salary of $1 million dollars for the life of the contract. this provision to be effective on awarding of the contract and for it's length or until the members death; which ever occurs first."

What people should realize is that under any form of so called "democracy", when it comes to PPPs, corporate secrecy involving public funds, or real capital in the form of resources, disappears and should be made illegal.

Corporate, business secrecy is OK when it involves other businesses, or internal practices, but where public funds are involved, it becomes a criminal conspiracy to steal.

If the dealings are kept secret, how does the public know what goes on and who can take this right away ?

Ed Deak.

[Comment partially edited to remove potential libel. Tyee editor]

When so many other countries are moving away from the fascist model of government as exampled by the u.s. Ours (provincially and federally) are moving towards it.

Hey! It's only bidness....relax.

I am finding it interesting that friends and coworkers that voted liberal are now getting quite quiet. They all laughed at me when I said Campbell and Co. would make all previous governments look like rank amateurs. Oh its so hard not to be smug.

ohhh...slithering little snakes that they are, the Campbell government has already previously covered that one as well, in one of the most dangerous pieces of legislation ever that completely trumps any kind of local autonomy....the BC Liberals' "Special Projects' Streamlining Act." This bill gives the premier and the cabinet the power to override almost any law or municipal regulation to push through projects they identify as significant. No limits, no strings.

And don't forget:

Bill 12, the blatant act of legislative tyranny brought in against the collective bargaining process of teachers last fall.

And....

Bill 13, The Civil Forfeitures Act that passed with hardly a whimper by the public...in it you can lose your house or assets just on the suspicion of unlawful activity...the act allows for the seizing of the property of a person who has not even been charged under the Canadian justice system.

Ever wonder what a fly feels like when entrapped in a very carefully woven web that has been purposely designed to render him immobile and powerless?

I dunno! Slithering?

I know some people say we'll soon forget about that, but I promise that we won't!" -
Newly elected B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell, victory night speech, 2001
______________________________________________
On May 17, 2005, 12,498 people in Vancouver-Point Grey KNEW that they were voting for a liar when they re-elected him.

They got what they voted for.

A Gordon Campbell promise?

I wouldn't wipe my bum with a Gordon Campbell promise.

This scenario is being played out in our fed govt too....Harpers new accountability act only increases secrecy and the ability to coverup mistakes.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2006/04/28/account-060428.html
North america is becoming scary as a whole.

pale

I hope you are scared. I know the feeling. I felt scared until Jan.23/06. Since then I feel wonderful. And proud to be a Canadian again.
Have a nice day.

This for Fiat Lux and Coyote, it's an interesting story having nothing directly to do the subject of this thread other than some of the ideas you raise about the fascio-creepism currently infecting western society. It appears some people are actually taking wealth redistribution from the ruling class into their own hands...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0509-05.htm

Well IAMC it seems you like being told what to think.....some of us think we should have the right to think on our own...Have a nice day yourself in that totalitarian place...

pale, we can all think and say ( well almost say ) anything we want. There is nobody forcing either you or me what to think.
You don't have to think you have the right, you do have the right. I am not sure what you were trying to say.

I think, this legislation could easily be attacked as class action suits in the courts, as it sets illegal, double standards:

The public is informed in great detail on the wage and contract settlements between the government, doctors and other self employed health practitioners, like chiropractors, physio therapists, road and other contractors etc. also of the wage settlements of hundreds of thousands of wage earners paid from the public purse. This is perfectly legal and necessary.

Therefore, keeping the monies paid to, or the contract details between the government and other service contractors secret is illegal, as all these payments and benefits involve public funds paid from taxes and other fees collected by the government for the purpose of public services and the government is fully accountable on how they're spent.

When an individual, or corporation signs any contract with elected governments, so called "free enterprise" and any secrecy about the details cease to exist.

Now lets hear some learned legal opinions on this.

Ed Deak.

James Burns,

Thanks for the story link. And we need more of that happening, don't we? :-)

If you are going to steal, "STEAL FROM THE RICH!"

What's needed initially, are these kinds of acts which grab headlines and at the same time serve to educate people, because they make political statements that are clear and acted out across the class line.

And the main need of the period we are going to have to go through to build the left, and I mean a radicalized/striking to the core of the issue, non-collaborationist left, is for actions that serve a purpose of drawing attention, the message of which cannot be misconstrued, even by ruling class media hacks, and which educate, excite the imagination, and embolden folks to "spread the spirit of resistance and rebellion."

hope you are scared. I know the feeling. I felt scared until Jan.23/06. Since then I feel wonderful. And proud to be a Canadian again.
Have a nice day.

You arent scared anymore because you are fed what to think....:) That would be my take on your comment.

The NDP yesterday found another 90+ million dollars in hidden costs for this 2010 winter Olympics 4 rich only thingy paid 4 by the working poor!
Wonder why they want to push these bills through?
Bills 23 & 30 http://www.bcndpcaucus.ca/files/Bill%2023%20backgrounder.doc
Bills 12 & 13
Can U spell Neo-Nazi?
Why are all of our health records outsourced to a US Corporation called "Hummugus?"
Why does Harpo want 1000 more RCMP who are just another extension of the military?
To quell & disperse dissidents not to combat crime, as they take more & more of "Our, The Peoples Rights" away and we really wake up & start to organize maybe to late!

A little trivia:
What does Mr. J Pedro Reinhard have in common with Royal Bank of Canada, Dow Chemical & Coca-Cola Co? He is Dow's Chief Financial officer and a top policy maker on all three company board of directors. killercoke.org

paale, okay, because I think differentley than you it's because I have been brainwashed.
What an easy way to get through life.

Awww cmon IAMC....lets look at the events shall we?
I posted a link stating that the new ACCOUNTABILITY ACT from Harpo and comp does nothing but allow them to cover up and lie even more. I stated that it was a trend across North America, and that it scared me...(Personally I think all this super duper secret stuff should be a wake up call to all you right wingers who supposedly espouse such a distaste for govt interference and lockstep policies, but I guess I was wrong) Then you stated that you arent afraid anymore as of the election of a Minority Harpo Govt.
So, A led to B, and so on...Now, If you purchased a home alarm system that day, or a new batch of happy pills I will be happy to say, OH, SORRY!
Until then you are just confirming what I said, You are now not scared because you like what is going on...hmmm. But how are you going to know you like it or not?

I'm Definitely Scared With Respect To This Cuckoos' Nest

Lynn

Ever wonder what a fly feels like when entrapped in a very carefully woven web that has been purposely designed to render him immobile and powerless?

Lynn welcome to the life as a lawful firearm owner in Canada, we have been subject to this kind of search and seizure for the last decade.

Because they are short of 2200 officers and are not even keeping to normal attrition.

Well they were an extension of the military back when they where called the NWMP.

Todays fascists don`t have to goosestep around in big boots and black uniforms.. there`s no need..they are almost completely unopposed..they have a willing and compliant constituency with the many such as IMAC.

Colin
You..just...don`t...get it

colin, I don't know where your head is @ but it isn't here today, as the RCMP can & will take control of all local police forces and do exactly as they are ordered by the Gordos & the Harpos of today!
Just look @ the Guns & Roses concert in Vancouver a couple years ago....

Everytime he sidles up close to a clue, and every once in awhile he catches us all by surprise and just about does, he promptly scares himself and the logical extentions of some of his more sane conclusions. At which point he promptly hightails it back into the neocon weeds 'n tall grass to stand with IAMClueless and the likes picking their noses and thumping their chests, and giving out with great jesus Tarzan calls. (Like that comment of IAMClueless above, translated from Neocon-speak of course, to mean "...proud to be an Amerikkkan again."

Right up there in intellectual erudition with his frequent, "God Bless Amerikkka!" proclamations.

Emerson was a perfect role model for such a thing, was he not? Accountability acts should be designed to prevent crooked theives like him, not the other way around. Harper. What a two faced hypocrite. I personally can't wait for the next election, but since we have a western separatist in power and Eastern separatists backing him up... wow, is this country tolerant.

This kind of proposed legislation brings me back to the Saskatchewan Devine Con government of the 80's. If any Con knows their history, they'll know that 21 MLA's got charged with fraud and theft, 17 were convicted, and one had stolen over 50 million all by himself and one committed suicide before it went to trial. Same scenerio is setting itself up in your province.

Rest easy, IMAC or Ron Irwin or whatever you call yourself. You will no longer have the opportunity to know what it is to be scared of, once the bills are passed. (what a retard)

And Colin. Trying to be a war hero again? Or just the support for the war mongers... you remind me of Con O'Connor & Company more and more every day. (what a loser)

Ed Deak, I haven't heard anyone say it better. To all the rest, have a great day.
:-)

I'm getting more and more interested in the cases of "potential libel" being posted here. Haven't seen that before. Seems eerily appropriate. crh and pjr ... would you mind revising and reposting your comments so we know whose ox is being gored?

Does anyone else feel that there's some significance in the timing for this BC Liberal legislation? I mean, here's the BC Legislature, enacting virtual safeguards for the Gordon Campbell government just as the trial of Basi & Virk gets under way -- in only 27 days.

Bill 30, as I read it, could inhibit what can be said in court about the financial affairs which led to the charges of bribery, fraud, breach of trust, and influence peddling.

There could (and should) very well be a call for a public enquiry into what happened to BC Rail and Roberts Bank, after the trial. But the findings could be kept secret under Bill 23. So what's the point?

I also see significance in the trial beginning on 5 June and the Legislature is being prorogued (shouldn't that be de-rogued?) on May 18? Gone for the summer. Most everybody on holiday. So perhaps the Basi & Virk trial will quietly slip by for 3 unnoticed months. Ha ha.

Anybody in or near Vancouver, who could occasionally be in the courtroom and report back, please check my blogspot:

http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com

Once again, with the proposed limitations to this province's freedom of information legislation, we are forced to accept daily from the BC Liberals what we would not tolerate once a year from the NDP. When it's not hysterically funny, the political double standard in this province is simply outright appalling.

Where the devil is our loyal opposition? Do we have to do this ourselves?

How should we word it?

WHEREAS:
Bill 23 and Bill 30 are specifically designed by the BC Liberal government to conceal public information in a way which strongly suggests that it is intended to conceal evidence of misbehaviour if not outright criminality. And

WHEREAS:
The BC Liberals elected by the people of BC promised faithfully to maintain open and accountable government, and were elected on that promise. And:

WHEREAS:
No possible democratic government can be imagined that could survive these bills, which forbid the electorate access to information that would be crucial to them in carrying out their duties as citizens and electors.

THEREFORE:
We the undersigned call upon the Governor General of BC, the Premier of BC, and the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of BC to call a general election at the earliest possible time, before said bills, or any such bills are brought to a vote.

Something like this ought to work, if the opposition gets behind it. Ms. James?

gotta love the new poll:
gordo's libs = 54%
carole who's ndp = 37%
knives out soon?

Sask Farm, I understand your frustration that results in child like name calling, It's about all you got left. It's over for you left wing radicals.
Did you here the latest Mustel poll.
Provincial politics

BC LIB 54% up from 45% last Nov.
NDP 37% down from 42% last Nov.
So whereas the BC LIB led by 3% then, it's a lead of 17% now.
What name are you going to call me now ?

verso said it: If you oppose these bills, write your MP. I'll be typing my opposition to this travesty out tonight.

I AM Clueless:
You might want to check this one out:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20060509_POLL_RESULTS.pdf

Alc, I am not going to check out anything from the NYT. The radical left wing rag that feature Abu Grabe on the front page of their rag. When it comes to politics they are out to lunch.

Its a pdf file dude. BE Brave. You might learn something.

45%... hmmn, isnt that the percentage of the vote our premier got in his own riding in the last election?

treason is treason, these bastards can only last as long as bctv and the canwest newspapers can shield them.

tks,
rjm

The radical left wing rag

You really are clueless.

I love this IAMC guy. Has nothing to say, hasn't said anything in weeks, except beating his chest like "Me Tarzan! Me Big! Me strong!"

Carry on kid, like I said before, we need the comedy relief, as the gold hits just about $700. signaling the end of the wealth creating rats fleeing the mess they created. But first making sure to get rid of their worthless dollars and that they're well supplied with trade goods when the crash comes.

Ed Deak.

BC Mary your splendid idea for the Basi, Verk etc is a very humanitarian way to get the big rats out in the open!
Now if only the opposition would only get a backbone and stop our Evil leaders from going on summer break forcing them back to into a summer legislature to face the music..
Why wait?
That's bull, if I break the law, like write a bad check will I be allowed to go on holidays first, yeah right!

I find it interesting that the BC Liberal supporters who post on this board have nothing of substance to add to this article. They can't even muster a defense. Instead, they want crow about the latest poll numbers.

I can't blame them for wanting to distract us, what w/all those good news stories of late: the Children's Ministry, ER rooms in chaos, a budget shell game of Olympic-size proportions and the latest, two bills that would make government anything but "open and accountable".

Yes, the Libs could be around for a third term. Eventually, though, they will be tossed out and the next bunch will have theses same laws to hide their own dirty laundry.

So, Liberal lovers, what do you make of these bills? Do you want to know how your tax dollars are being spent? I wonder what your reaction would be if Glen Clark put forward these same bills...

Can't you bloody hear it though? Especially that IAMClueless twit?

Anyway, like Deak says, "We need the comedy relief", from time to time.

I'm heading up into grizzly and mountain caribou country bright and early, so I'm off to an early nighty night. Us old men need our zzzzs. Taking my camera gear and hoping for photo ops.

Catch ya's later brothers and sisters.

Though Bailey, before I go-, damned good point about Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. (When what we really need is a majorly "Disloyal Opposition"-, to the ruling class agenda.)

BC Dude, yes if anyone breaks the law they all will be able to go on vacation or whatever.
I don't know where it happened, either in Vancouver or Edmonton or Victoria, but a couple of 15 year old kids, beat the crap out another kid, near death, and yet they were released into the community with strict provisions that they don't contact the victim.
I guess they aren't allowed to visit him in the Hospital to express their concern.
If you write a bad cheque you most certainly be able to continue your permanent vacation.
By the way this is a current and ongoing story.
I know you lefties don't like any rules, you prefer anarchy.

I am surprised that the Editor doesn't edit more out of these posts, for fear of libel action.

After two attempts by bureaucrats to bring libel and/or slander charges for me, for comments I made on the radio and at public meetings, I have learned to be very careful.

The great weapon of the elites is libel chill, censorship of those who fear leagal action.

What we have in victoria is an elected dictatorship. We live in no democracy, rather a 3 to 5 year dictatorship. The elites elcted can do as they please, with no fear of reprisal, unless there is a minority government or a bankbench revolt, which is extremely rare in Canada.

The control of infomation, is the control of power.

As for recent polls showing a slip for the NDP and gain for the Liberals is only natural for a government just after an election. Mind you Carole james is a wet noodle and useless as a party leader. She fails to understand the role of the loyal opposiion is to oppose.

Cry havoc and send in the dogs of war, should be the battle cry of the NDP, instead we have wimper, whine, and moan!

The NDP need a change in leader, someone dynamic not Ms. Bucket!

The NDP have been bought off by the BC LIB .
There huge Public Sector Onion, Nurses, Doctors, settlements were the payout.
Now can Carol go back to her people in the next election and get some more support ?
Maybe, but the other Carol, by offering up these $3,000.00 taxable bonuses has scooped her.
It's funny watching this all unfold.
It's my belief that it's matter of demographics.
The PSU, like all of us is getting old. And although they may have had the fire in the belly at one time, the fires out.
So that means the only hope for any future for the NDP is to get a younger audience.
The problem with that, is that they have all disappeared with their Family Planning people having killed many of their future supporters through discouragement of their types to have kids.
I mean what a pain in the ass kids are.
Meanwhile, the Christians and others have been propagating.
The left seems to be doomed unless they get more radical and try to align themselves with the DMC Party in the USA.
Let's all have fun watching the left in North America try to radicalize.
My side still has more of a future.

'I wonder what your reaction would be if Glen Clark put forward these same bills...'
every day i thank god that he will never be back.

IAMC
You've still never written about your reasons for bothering to post here. Why not? You refuse to read any of the things people submit for your attention, you apparently disagree strongly with most of the journalism, not to mention virtually all of the commentators. You have two or three 'friends' who believe most of the same things you do - in truth I find their participation kind of strange too - but you particularly never say anything constructive. Elliot is quite funny in his own way. TC99 has serious anger issues and Capitalism is a caricature – each of them does say almost sensible things occasionally - but you never actually even try to put a cogent thought down and don't even defend your political point of view with a modicum of intelligence and honesty.

Why do you bother? Is there some deep-seated element somewhere buried in your psyche that's telling you to come here and 'save' the people you disagree with? Or, on the other hand, do you come out of fear, fear that you may actually be wrong in what you believe and suspicious that your life is unfulfilled and largely pointless?

Do you ever take the time to even consider these, or similar questions?

Just curious why anyone would continue to offer himself up for public ridicule the way you do.

It’s not that I want you to stop or anything. Your presence here actually makes my job infinitely more straightforward because you never say anything remotely intelligent, insightful or logical. Mounting a defence against your nonsense is laughingly easy. In fact, it’s occurred to me that you really are a closest leftist who comes here acting like a ridiculous fascist simply to make the case for progressive politics by default.

In addition, you’ve never answered that question about the 14 countries and what they have in common. Why not?

Right, IMAC and Elliot, so your non answers to my questions concerning these bills, and your refusal to comment directly to Tromp's article implies your support for them. I'll try to remember that next time you take issue with how government manages your tax dollars.

Alci....

Surely, you don't expect the faithful to think, let alone to come up with logical reasons ?

One minute the lefties are control freaks who want to control and restrict everything, hindering free enterprise and thought, the next : "I know you lefties don't like any rules, you prefer anarchy".

Gordo even has a Deregulation Minister and works every day to remove public control, rules and accountability, but it is the lefties who want anarcy? This guy is getting funnier by the minute in his desperate attemmpts to prove that the Earth is flat.

Ed Deak,

Fiat Lux

No, Of course I don't expect much from the flat earthers Ed. On the other hand, yesterday I posted a pdf of the latest poll of Bush's popularity in the US and I AM Clueless refused to even open it. I've seldom known or read anyone who so reveled in ignorance as the cipher behind that label.

I agree he's hilarious. Now and then I find it useful to demonstrate in print how typical that mindless yahoo attitude is among such neo conmen. Further, illustrating his ideological connections with others of the same stripe has the added benefit of damning by association. You know the old story:

A drunk and a pig are sleeping together in the gutter when a gentleman and his companion pass by and one comments to the other:
"You can tell a man who boozes by the company that he chooses."
So the pig got up and slowly walked away.

We all have our methods of shining light on the matter. I admire, by the way, yours very much.

BC Mary

I was edited for mentioning in the beginning of my post that:

a. It was curious that both campbell and bush had very publicly been shown to have substance abuse problems (I used a word that is slang for this).

b. It was curious that both of the above persons were running possibly the most secretive regimes in their province and country's respective histories.

Having struggled and fended off the same substance (easily bought in local substance vending outlets) many years ago I used a word in common parlance to describe myself and fellow substance abusers.

I'm still trying to figure out how that could be libelous as both men publicly admitted that there was a problem. However, I do recognize that I am a guest here and I also recognize that even the threat of a false lawsuit can cost money, time and reputation and that they should be avoided if possible.

Regarding glen clark doesn't he work for you guys now?

'Regarding glen clark doesn't he work for you guys now?'
not sure you could make a much more shallow statement jester. par for the course.

I suspect that the government is WELL aware that the sides in these issues are polarized enough, and will result to finger pointing, red herrings and apples being compared to hippopotamus..(no I cant spell, but it works phonetically)
Its a divide and conquer situation.
That being said, to those who are opposed to this legislation- we need to confine the debate to the actual context of the bills being proposed, and just ignore those who are trying to draw it into straw arguements and worthless chest beating.

We need a constructive plan here. I wrote to the NDP site last eve, today to the phones!

i'm sure carole who?, bill schreck and david tieleman will get right on that.

not without a kick in the pants, and thanks suzy sunshine.....thats so constructive!

alc; gee I'm really broken up over your put down of me. I don't know if I can go on.

Is anyone else being reroted to another site?

iamclues your response to my entry had nothing to do with my Basi, Verk entry.
My check thingy was just a hypothetical situation. duh

EDITED FOR POSSIBLE LIBEL. BC DUDE, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM LIBELOUS STATEMENTS ON THIS SITE OR, REGRETTABLY AND IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE SITE, I WILL HAVE TO BLOCK YOU FROM FURTHER COMMENTING.

As far as the so called opposition Where are they?
This secrecy bill will if passed be the end of democracy, we should be out in full force to topple this organized crime riddled government Both Fed & Provincially
If the third world people can do it then we can also do it!
The last time we were in control was "1983 Solidarity" but we were sold out by Jack Monroe his name is now down in history as a Traitor to the people who backed him.
The last time Glen Clark was on tv he was on Jim Pattison’s yaught with George Bush Sr, George Bush Jr, and a few others fishing in one of the few places that the fish farming hasn’t screwed up.
Glen Clark is now a CEO of one of Pattison’s biz’s.

The only thing I can remember Carol Taylor doing since she was elected was getting caught accepting a big raise from Gordo. She quickly backed off from that but the damage was done and she has had not one thing of note to say since then.

A pox on both their houses.

Time to start a BC First Party. Neither party in this provincial legislature has any integrity IMHO.

The thing I dont get.....is here in BC we normally eat our premiers for breakfast...lightly toasted. This opposition...(what a joke) has been so lazy that they cant say much more than BOO!
That drunken romp in Hawaii would have been enough to send that idjit packing if we had a proper opposition.

(I can critique all parties and not feel one smidge of guilt that im not being LOYAL to da king)

IAMC
You're right; it will be difficult for you keep on, because true ignorance is a great burden. Take heart though, I'd hate to lose anyone with that unteachable talent for stringing a handful of non sequiturs together without ever coming into contact with a single meaningful idea or valid conclusion.

Hooray, Bill 23 and the offending section of Bill 30 were pulled today. See the article published on this date: May 10, 2006.

Stanley Tromp and The Tyee and Bailey, too, deserve a heap o'credit for the pulling of Bill 23 and "the offending section" of Bill 30 ... this is a far, far better turn of events.

Meantime Basi and Virk must be aging rapidly. Cruel, to keep postponing their trial. Plus, the evil Mr Big(s) must be having a field day every day of this twilight zone where their deeds cannot be discussed.

How BIG is this trial? One measure might be that it will take 3 years to sort through the evidence even though it was gathered up in 32 boxfuls and some hard drives at the time of the police raid on the Legislature. Not as if they're out having to sleuth around. Or the Special Prosecutor could be faking, I suppose. I mean, it's THAT big.

Most people, when they find a job is not getting done fast enough, would begin to work overtime, or they'd hire more help, yeah? There's real danger IMO in letting this affair drag on.

On the other hand, the trial could become a feature attraction during the 2010 Olympics.

Humm Democracy has raised it's head no thanks to Carol James.
But that's how gordo got in last time as Canwest " http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/canwest.asp " for the first time ever put Green Party in it's worthless rags

BC Dude you're gettin' it all wrong amigo!!!
It goes:
"fool me once, shame on y..er me?
fool me twice, uh...WON'T GET FOOLED AGIN!"

BC Mary, what will happen with the trial is that after another seven postponements it will be dropped as being not in the public interest to pursue...

R. Smiley

Here is a petition to sign about the Libs 23% cuts, undermining, sabitoging, just to bring in their buddies PP3 Copeman.

http://stopercuts.bc.ndp.ca/

ripponfalls, if you really believe that, are you willing to sit with folded hands, smilingly accepting it? Tell me it ain't so.

Not even a tiny hunger strike? A sit-in? A picket? A few phone-ins? Nothing but this somewhat overbearing comment that gloats "I told ya so."

And what does that make you, for cryin' out loud, if you see it coming and do nothing?

I placed a comment few days ago, supporting complaint about silly secrecy, but critical of other forms of government, which are even much more secretive. Specially tyrannical socialist systems like Soviet or Nazi National Socialist German Party (NSDP). My comment disappered. is it nice?