You know something funny, Rob Q? I think you've proved my point, ... and I might add, to a rather exhaustive, indeed overwhelming degree! I read one of Ben Mulroney's columns from your link, and I would suggest to you that it includes only marginally more sycophantic worship of the United States than what we are presently getting from the Paul Martin Liberals, the point of departure being the BMD system, which is really far too much of a white elephant to be a genuinely serious arms control issue.

Of course, as a lower middle class social democrat, I am pleased indeed to see that Justin Trudeau is following in the millionaire socialist traditions of his famous father, ... braving the spitballs and hazings laid on by the spoiled brats at a private school that charges $10 Grand tuition for high school, ... and $6,700 for Kindergarten. Kindergarten for Christ's sake! Rob, please tell me this, ... at what tender age does this bloody "playing fields of Eton" crap start these days?

I still don't get your line of reasoning, Budd.

Even if Ben "is only marginally more sycophantic" towards the US than Paul Martin, what does that have to do with the respective values of the Trudeaus and Mulroneys?

And what does Justin Trudeau working at a private school have to do with this discussion?

The point is: Justin does a lot of volunteer work for low-profile, worthy causes, whereas Ben seems to do little but advance the cause of Ben Mulroney. Their respective choices seem to be consistent with their fathers' respective approaches to life. That's the thesis.

You haven't provided any evidence affects that thesis in any way . . . Crowing "You've proved my point" regularly and adding a couple completely specious conclusions doesn't quite cut it.

Millionaire socialism ain't necessarily bad, Budd. At the very least, it's responsible for a lot of fine guilt-assuaging baubles like philanthropic foundations which endow the unwashed with capital that the bloody ingrates use to monkey-wrench polite society by tattling on their masters. At it's best, millionaire socialism serves as a goad to many working slobs like you and me who would otherwise keep their eyes on the rut. Instead, we look around and see the trees and the forest... hell, maybe even the stars.
The Mulroney's of this world NEVER do that. The Brians and Milas and Bens find it just simply too gauche to roll up their sleeves and accomplish anything less important than making some more money.

It would be a bit silly to try to answer X and Claude point by point, if for no other reason that I don't understand Claude's post at all. I have never found millionaire socialists to be an inspiration. That's not to say that rich liberals, ... note the small "l", it's critical, ... haven't played an important role in American politics, from both Presidents Roosevelt to the Kennedys, Nelson Rockerfeller and, even if he just missed, John Kerry. But in the Canadian context I am hard pressed to think of super-rich politicians who have been a progressive force.

That Justin Trudeau works at a ridiculously over-priced private school, whose explicit purpose is to stratify society according to parental wealth and income, but spends his noblesse oblige weekends on avalanche awareness, doesn't really cut it with me, nor I think with most reasonable people. In the phrase "most reasonable people", I am not including Liberal Party Hardliners who are forever singing the praises of their departed Great Helmsman, Pierre E. Trudeau, and just as tirelessly nursing a 24/7 grudge against Brian Mulroney, the bilingual Irish Catholic upstart from rural Quebec who shattered their Empire, albeit it only for two terms.

His son Ben Mulroney may not be contributing anything more to society than any other pop-media personality, but so what? Who said he was, or has to? I grant you, it would be nice if the kid did some charity work. But to be truthful, I don't know that he doesn't put in a few hours at a soup kitchen or maybe checks off a pile to the United Way when the cameras aren't around to record the event. What about your hero Justin, ... does he do any of his public service stuff without publicity and a website that Rob Q can easily link us to?

Reading the last 20 posts, the big question is: What is better for Canada, Katimavik or Canadian Idol?

So in other words, JRG, expensive, elite private schools are irrelevant, only weekend and evening charity work counts. Do I have that right?

If I may transgress from the Justin/Ben debate, I think the much more intriguing story is the one that Dorothy was nudging us towards: how the personal values of our leaders (elected or not) directly influence their actions and could use a little more examination. And for anyone living in BC I suggest a LOT more examination before the May election.

Great article ! Great comments ! ... However , this" Bud's not for me ". Seems to be a bit off track , with a train of thought that begs the question. What is he really trying to get across with his attempt to derail a great discussion that poses the eternal question... , so beautifuly phrased by Timothy Finlay... in a lecture I once attended , entitled:.. MATTER OVER MIND , THE IMAGINATION IN JEOPARDY *.. in which the very matter , or is it mind , of the material versus the spirit of heart ,mind , soul and existence itself is placed into proper focus and
context ?. ( a lenghty question , I know , but it needed to be asked , me thinks )

Now where were we in this great exchange of ideas?

CANADA... ahh.... Yesss.., the land of the : strangers in a strange land *.. , indeed , attempting to find a voice*.. , such as this fascinating article manages to do.. both in it's sweeping canvas of the Katimavik program and the ensuing reflections from the author followed by the DIALOG that flowed from the piece... ,

Great journalism ! Great communications initiative.. ( this Tyee experiment * )

keep up the good work .

Oh GACK!

Justin Trudeau is a pallid pup, too much like his spotlight-loving mother... he's an opportunistic little pipsqueak who has done nothing but pretend to teach the children of the ultra-wealthy at a private school... he wants to be a politician..can't anyone see what this little dork is doing? All he is doing now is putting in time until he no longer looks as young as Beaver CLeaver, then he'll be trotting around trying to get himself elected, as if he had any real qualifications...as for Ben...Ben WHO?

Gack gack gack gack

and I'm trying really hard to be low key!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben Mulroney was in a paly in Ottawa with students from a variety of colleges. My daughter was in the paly. He barely said hello through out the whole practice and performance. It was as if he was too good to be around anyone. I told my daughter his father is a crook and his mother is a "rich feminist", what you expect. As far as the trudeau son...well he is waiting his opportunity and bidding his time.
I would not be surprised that once in power he changes into a Ben Mulroney...
Addicted to power parents create addicted to power children... addicted like their parents to alcohool or dope...how sad1
But the saddest part is that we voted for their crroked fathers and will be voting for their crroked sons as well...shit

Via rail to the rescue!Get the young ones on the trains.East to west and west to east.Hell lets all get involved we might actually save this country.

Anne & Justin sittin' in a tree....

Who's Anne? Why not Sophie...