We are stuck with the "Games" now, so we have to make the best of the situation for all BC. I would hope that the government now and the "New one" in '05 will look to Sydney and see what can be accomplished. How ever I hold no hope for this current band of miscreants. That being said, I hope the motto will not be : '' let the grief begin", if we must have them at least try and leave a decent legacy.

Given what's happening over in Athens at the moment, with the concept not being "drug free" but rather "we're all doing it to be competitive, so let's not get caught, and if we are let's play the national pride card and still get to compete" - with the aid of the very national organisations that are supposed to stop it. The whole thing is a bit of a sham anyway isn't it?

We get one chance to change the government between now and the Games. It seems highly unlikely that even if we elect a government that gives a darn that they will be able to make any legislative changes that don't break the contracts signed with the IOC. So we're pretty much stuck with whatever plans Campbell signed. This does not bode well for any sort of "Green" games. Or ethical ones for that matter.

Yes, we're stuck with the Games, a very, VERY profitable commercial enterprise run by the IOC, disguised as "amateur sport", and paid for by taxpayers everywhere. Vancouver and Whistler may see some economic benefits, or at least those people renting hotel rooms and apartments will. Many workers, First Nations and others are very likely to get The Shaft. The rest of the province will pay through the nose. A couple dozen or so of the conspirators responsible will walk away much richer as their companies get the juicy contracts. Meanwhile, volunteers flock in to help a commericial enterprise make even more money, while other organisations that really need volunteers to make ends meet can't get them.

Olympics are debt burdens for taxpayers, and that's before the "land giveaways", where taxpayers buy the land, build the buildings, then the government gives these facilities to their friends in private enterprise. For some reason this is considered "normal practice" rather than fraud.

Best article I've found so far is here: http://tinyurl.com/yup4n, with the rest of the articles here: http://tinyurl.com/4t6mb

So we'd better start saving now for those tax and fee increases!

cynically yours, Marc

There will be two elections before the actual games. The last one so close it won't really matter. We had a chance to stop the Olympics but the people of Vancouver voted for it. We could walk away after the next election. It would be very messy and complicated and the backlash would be great, but would it be better then going forward. As Athens unfolds and the Olympics in under the Chinese government develops, perhaps the world population will regect the validity of the games. We need to be there recording, watching, and speaking out every chance we get.

Campbell regularly uses the games to hide behind when he doesnt want people looking too closely at his government. His HelloBC ads make me sick. Games will benefit some but not majority...much like his government. He will take credit for successes and hide when things go wrong( or blame others ) and sadly Canadians will probably be under represented at the games ( many BC ones will never be supported ) Thats the BC thats headed into the Olympics. Because of him..I dont really support the games..( as much as Id like to ) and with our own citizens getting swallowed by Mcjobs and Mcwages , whos going to be able to afford any tickets???

Ah, but hey, come on, let's give credit where it's due...a few months ago we were so dead broke we couldn't afford ANYTHING and had to slash social programmes, and all of a sudden there's been this glorious turn-around in the economy, so great we can all afford to ante up and pay for Campbell and his coterie of syncophants to hi-de-ho off to Athens. His supreme idiocy says he is going to have "meetings" there which will benefit the games here...pass the Retsina...pour another glass of wine...make another baby...aren't you impressed with how well represented we'll all be... our Olympic team is underfunded but the swine swilling at the trough are doing just fine!

And either way, the king swine will keep swillin' right up until 2010. If GGamble doesn't get re-elected in 2005, he can become 100% involved on the BC Olympic committee as a private citizen. Sounds to me like he's building his resume with BC's tax dollars.

comments about the athens olympics are based on negative american and british media information that doesn't present all of the facts...when a member of the athens organizing committee asked an american reporter what the statistics for death and injury were on other olympic construction projects in countries outside of greece, he had no statistics: no one knows if athens raised the bar on safety or dropped the ball, since no one has ever been this intent on negatively portraying an olympic city...the fact that greece is a poorer "western" nation, more second world than first world, has allowed high-handed derision by americans who have looked for every opportunity to sabotage the good name of athens...greek media have reported that the americans lobbeyed frantically to have their basketball "dream team" excused from doping control...sydney was not the greatest example of how a games should be run, with sub-standard venues and a score of problems with staff...before lauding sydney as the games to emulate, you should read more information than presented in one, pro-sydney publication that's obviously trying to prove a very specific point

Banshee, drug use seems to be the least of the problems facing the U.S. basketball team these days. Only good thing about our sporting premier's visit to Greece is that he won't be in BC, but I would hope he doesn't try driving. NOTE TO JOHN: At the risk of sounding ethnically wounded, (where's my claymore?) I would ask that you find another means of expressing your distaste for dead-end jobs and minimum wage levels even if they were set by a guy named Campbell. It's bad enough having to endure the embarrassment of having one of those as the premier without having the prefix of my surname kicked about like some undercooked haggis.

Yes, Rob, you are so right about where Gordon is headed. My crystal ball tells me that he's headed there long before the next election. Afterall, his ever present sidekick, Ken Dobell, or should I say 'fixer' is already on the Committee along with his 'best friend' and business buddy, Jack Poole. I'm sure they will all get along just fine; just like the little group did when Poole's company, Concert Properties was named VLC and Gordon was Mayor: an interesting thing happened to that free land Gordon gave them in Vancouver for affordable social housing - they got the land, but the SOCIAL aspect got lost somewhere along the way to BIG PROFITS for his friends. JUST IMAGINE WHAT THIS SAME LITTLE GROUP CAN DO UNDER THE GUISE OF THE OLYMPICS! I wonder where that leaves the rest of us British Columbians?

A lot of us are beyond Hope Donna.

Two general comments concerning the "benefits" (sic) of the Games: First, it may be dawning on SFU President Michael Stevenson and Burnaby mayor Derek Corrigan right about now that the Games are not really about fair competition any more than they are really about sports. Someone needs to do some digging into the VANOC decision, but it would be surprising if the influence of the casino, RAV, and the airport were not paramount. Also, Corrigan needed a good spanking for opposing RAV for so long. The VANOC decision will be a message to any other uppity mayors who still hope to get some Olympic goodies. Second, concerning resorts: not all are created equal, financially or ethically. While I am not a skier, skiing is a major recreation of tens of thousands of BCers and providing them a place to do so is one of those societal compromises that get made. However compare the following two examples: Resorts West is planning to develop a massive project, complete with 20 ski lifts, 3 resort villages, a golf course, retirement community, condos, and fake European castles on the peaks. This would be horrendous enough but gets worse: The Cheam range is sacred to the Cheam/Pilalt people and they have not consented to this destruction. How the land gets into Resorts West's pocket will also be interesting to watch, but somehow the BC government will find a way to make this transfer of aborignal land occur. Of course, they will need roads to the resort, likely paid for by taxpayers, etc. In contrast, the Powder Mountain plan in the 1990s for the Callaghan was quite the opposite: it was to be privately financed, would totally involve 1st Nations, would preserve virtually all of the valley. The plan was open, transparent, accountable...Then the plan was hikjacked by some in Land Management who had "other" friends whose plans for the Callaghan were more in line with those of Resorts West in Cheam. It is interesting to note that VANOC's plan for the Callaghan reads like a carbon copy of Resorts West. In both cases, SFU and Callaghan, it's all about the special interests behind the Games, ie., Gordon Campbell and his developer friends who call the shots. Those who developed the Powder Mountain plan now understand this only too well and it is hard not to sympathize with their disappointment and sense of betrayal. I wonder when Corrigan will figure out that he just never belonged to the "club" and that his chances of bringing the skating oval to SFU were doomed long ago?

There has never been an olympics games that benefitted anyone but government friendly business interests; nor will there ever be one. Be prepared as long as gordon swindle is in office to see olympic contracts go time and time again to bc liar friendly mayors and municipalities -time to stop pimping out your children for the tax cut you didn't get to sniff -grow that voter's list and let's get rid of these filthy parasites next may 17, 2005!!

150 workers killed in Greece, to build the stadiums and other venues. I the lower mainland is about an average of 10 deaths a week, plus thousands of injuries. Oh you never heard of it? The media is there to give you propaganda and the WCB is the re to make a profit and deny your benefits. Bosa in the corner of Smith and Burrard, at 10:30 in the Am , about ten days ago, almost killed somebody when a huge piece of fell on the office on site. However it hasn't changed much. There is a new vogue, no CSO until the "real construction starts", meaning during excavation there are no OFA's or CSO's, no safety plans, and the city doesn't enforce anything from the Vancouver Building Bylaws, because the building boom is filling the coffers. WCB? Stands for What can be bought? Officers denounces workers to bosses, workers loose jobs, no one care about anything, but the almight dollar. By the time the games are here, the death toll will be higher than in Greece. So far we have surpassed it. But who cares? Anyone that tells me about why health care is so expensive and don't account for the number of work injuries that are not reported to WCB, but are treated by the health care system, is being dishonest. WCB needs to change. Pocket money isn't enough.

Listen, you Burnaby and SFU whiners. Richmond was, and is, the right choice for the skating oval because of its proximity to the airport, its proximity to downtown Vancouver, and its business friendly municipal government. Derek Corrigan and his cronies tried to destroy the Olympic movement by derailing the RAV line. Now he's paying the piper, along with his left-wing loonie suburb and school. Richmond is on the up-and-up. We have the airport. We have skating. We have many malls. Hahahahah! What does Burnbaby have? The North Burnaby Inn and Derek Corrigan!! Hahahahaha. Richmond rocks, baby.

Richmond Ron: You are entitled to your opinion but, WAKE UP and smell the skunk! I don't live in Burnaby so the venue change doesn't effect me, personally. I am also not against the Olympics per se; infact I know some outstanding ethical Olympic athletes; athletes that are the backbone of what the Olympic movement is all about: FAIRPLAY AND ETHICS. What most people understand is how the Olympics benefits key people within the local Olympic Committee wherever the Olympics are being held. What happened to SFU and Burnaby, is just typical of insider vested interests moving the goal posts to suit their own monetary interests. SFU was USED by the Vancouver Bid group to win the Bid, along with a few other shananigans. They proceeded on good faith to spend a great deal of money thinking they were following due process. If you were educated about the key controlling interests within the Vancouver Bid Committee you would understand that there is no fair process to be had; it is a CATCH 22 for anyone outside of their little group including the financial interests involved with the Great Canadian Casino (now involved in the Richmond venue; Gordon's close friends on the Bid including Jack and Ken Dobell plus a few key land bureaucrats they need for access to crown land. I would suggest that you start educating yourself about what is happening behind closed doors. You will get a rude awakening and be more empathetic to the anger at what happened to the SFU group.

Malls suck

Correction to my comment above: "...athletes that are the backbone of what the Olympic movement was founded on: FAIRPLAY AND ETHICS, BUT IS NO LONGER.

If you want to get a read on what people are really thinking check the sound off section of the Vancouver Sun web page. Since none of my "negative" comments have ever turned up there I can only guess there is an editorial policy in place there too. And what is wrong with the North Burnaby Inn anyway :-) [Now called the Old Admiral]

Richmond Ron, you forgot, or maybe you were too humble to include yourself in that long list of attributes that make Richmond such a prize. So Richmond has shopping malls and proximity to the airport and that makes it a great place to be? Wow! I trust your mayor and local politicians won't be long gone, along with the developers and promoters, shortly after the 2010 Olympics are finished. You see, that's when the real rubber hits the road and you and fellow Richmondites learn the value of low-use sports facilities. It's then you'll discover that Richmond has to hire more staff to market the big-box rink, because, quite frankly, there isn't an awful lot of need for another world class skating oval in western Canada. Along with the sales people's costs, your municipal bean counters will have to up your municipal taxes to help offset the ongoing operational and maintenance deficits on an underused (what colour will it be?) elephant. So it is with some appreciation from this taxpayer from beyond Hope that you are so heartfully accepting this long term financial commitment. Oh, by the way, did the proponents of this little coup mention they can build on time and on budget? If that is the case then you should lobby to have the facility used as a shrine after the games as a financial miracle like that should be acknowledged. I realize you think that Burnaby is getting what if deserves for opposing the RAV line, but to me it suggests decisions and commitments to build in Richmond were made before the RAV decision. Perhaps that's why Gordo and his developer friends were screaming so loudly when the GVRD nixed their plans. Have a good skate Ron. I think you deserve it.

Tom Sandborn, a spokesperson for the BC Civil Liberties Association, seems to omit a not so rosy account of the Sydney and Athens Games...the suspension of civil and human rights! Labour may or may not have gained an upper hand at the Sydney 2000 Games but only in a climate of seige mentality. At one time Labour organizations worked hard at advancing civil and human rights. Athens, according to the various watch dog social groups living there, is a city under seige. Romas being disbursed without settlement alternatives. (IN Bejing, it's estimated that at least 50,000 people have been displaced in the name of the GAMES). 70,000 armed private and public security personel are on hand to protect the GAmes from terrorism. Canadian in a tutu takes a plunge in the Olympic pool in Athens dispite this obscene collection of security forces. Each foreign dignitary is allowed to have his/her own armed security force. (shades of APEC in Vancouver, Indonesian security force style which the BCCLA strenously fought against). Athenians can see US Warships anchored offshore and Nato planes both armed with Patriot missiles and other weapons of mass destruction, high tech security dirigibles and AWACS flying above the sundrenched GAMES. All at a cost of US$1.5 billion! Thats not all. Over 1200 security cameras are in place throughout the city, a technical security centre is operating on US$345 million software, watching... BCCLA has fought against serviellance cameras keeping watch on the general public without cause. Helicopters are keeping watch on a 24/7 basis....and after the Athens GAmes, the cameras and other high tech security and listening devices will stay in place as a "legacy" for the "free" citizens of AThens. As Nana Vafidi, one of the opposition to the AThen's Games spokespersons, says, "This isn't a sports event, it's a seige. We have soldiers on the streets for the first time since the dictatorship." (Sandborn watch "Z" again) The group says that the cameras, troops and restriction of movement and protest amount to a violation of civil rights and has turned Athens into a prison. What will Vancouver be like? What areas of the city will be "No Go Zones"? Which city streets will be closed to the public? How far from BC Place Stadium will protesters be allowed to voice and demonstrate their opinions? How many cameras will be in place operated out of E-Comm? What citizen behaviour will constitute means for detention? Will citizens be illegally detained or shot by out of country security personel? Will things get out of hand like APEC? Civil life is more than labour achieving more jobs for its members. Perhaps this is why the public has such low regard for labour these days...they think of themselves first! Is a member of BCCLA sitting on the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee? No! Why Not? PS Environment...take a trip up the Sea to Sky Highway and take a few pics for the IOC...this is what sustainable games looks like, torn apart mountains, debris in streams, and a highway with 60% more cars delivering 60% more consumer capacity to feed to unsatiable greedy appetites of the local and international real estate moguls operating in Vancouver and Whistler. 2010, It's starting off with a BANG! F**K 2010 T-shirts on sale NOW! Mr. Sandborn, care to buy one?

Allan, Richmond's new community centre, paid for by the taxpayers of BC and Canada will also receive a portion of the $110 million "Legacy Fund" that the 2010 Bid Book states is there to pay the high ongoing operating costs for "underutilized" sports facilities after the Games. So not only is Rmd getting the facility for nothing, they're getting the operating costs paid for by the provincial taxpayers. The city of Rmd states that the facility will fit the needs of the RMD community and claim that it will be well used. Interesting to note: Both the Hillcrest/Riley Park and Hastings Park facilities being upgraded for the Games will not receive any of the "Legacy Funds" because those facilities will be used and enjoyed by the citizens of Vancouver. So why is Richmond receiving money from the fund for a community centre for Rmd residents and yet Vancouver receives nothing?

To balance Tom Sandborn's book selection, read Helen Lenskyj's, "Best Olympics Yet? Social Impacts of Sydney 2000" "details the real costs and impacts of the Olympic games, the economic and social realities behind the hype, and, as Lenskyj (sociology, U. of Toronto) says in her introduction, the "chilly climate for Olympic critics." "Despite International Olympic Committee president Juan Antonio Samarach's proclaiming the Sydney 2000 Olympics as the "best ever, " the truth of the matter is much less one-sided. In The Best Olympics Ever? Helen Jefferson Lenskyj discloses what the Sydney 2000 Olympic industry suppressed: the real costs and impacts." Remember Samarach? The staunch supporter of Spain's facisit dictator, Franco. Remember labour and leftists going to the aid of the Spanish Republic? Defending civil rights and democracy? The New South Wales Auditor General stated that the public money used to build infrastructure for the Sydney Games could have been better spent elsewhere, "like schools and hospitals" where they have a greater and long lasting return for the citizens of Australia. If labour wants jobs, let them build real affordable housing, hospitals, schools that won't collapse and pancake onto thousands of students if we have an earthquake, treatment centres for those with harmful addictions...cost effective public transit... Sandborn could use his gifted writing talents informing Vancouver readers about the IOC, its tainted history and corruption. Tell us about who runs the IOC, what corporations sponsor them? Tell us why a self appointed aristocracy can be granted tax free status by the Federal Government (the IOC is not a religion, not a charity, not an educational institute). Tell us why the IOC needs 20,000 people working for FREE during the 2010 Games when it expects to haul away at least $700 million in TV revenue from franchising its 2010 Games to Vancouver? As a building trade unionist for over 20 years, I do not support the 2010 Games and Vancouver's sorry collaboration with the IOC!

Collaborators!

Thank you W.R. Vidal. So we all get to share in the financial misery of keeping an underused sports facility open in Richmond until the end of time. That's interesting because Kamloops has just committed about $40 million to new sports facilities to enhance its claim at being Tournament Capital of Canada and had been hoping to get a few of those legacy dollars. Gee, why is it I feel like I'm going to be taxed twice to pay for underused sports facilities in BC when I must travel to Kelowna or Vancouver to see a medical specialist?

I am trully disappointed that no one had a comment to make about workers death in construction sites, as one of the prime results of this Olympic nightmare construction boom, here in Vancouver. But, we workers never been the most important in the minds of anyone, sometimes not even ourselves. Tom Sandborn was born with his head in the sand. If the death toll in Athenas was 150, how many does anyone think will be here in BC? Besides the things being constructed right now are so low in craftsmanship that is scary. We are using the cheapest of the sheapest... Scary and sad.

Many people in Vancouver are as deluded as Tom Sanborn in their belief that wonderful benefits will flow from the Olympics in 2010. So far as I can see most benefits will flow to a relative few while the costs will be borne by many. Here's what we're on the hook for already: a 600 million dollar highway (probably swelling by an additional 100 million or for a tunnel to "protect" some valuable West Vancouver real estate)so that the already well off can more easily access their "cabins" at Whistler; a 1,700 million dollar RAV line which has precious little to do with relieving congestion and pollution and more to do with burying a rail line so as not to offend the sensiblities of another bunch of real estate owners on the West Side; a 500 million dollar trade and convention centre to improve the business prospects of downtown fat cats, and the list goes on. Meanwhile, if you want knee replacement surgery go to India and pay for it yourself. Our government doesn't have the money to run its hospital operating rooms and is forced to tear up legal contracts with its unions in order to save a few percent on wages. The crap is so getting so deep around here it is becoming difficult to even see the mountains anymore.

Could you tell me, wellherewegoagain, if a lot of the olympic jobs coming up are being filled by labor ready and other casual work employees who get a mere $8 an hour maximum, these jobs being claimed by gary feral colon as $16 an hour jobs because that's what labor ready charges the employer, pocketing $8 an hour for themselves?