So, how many trucks a day would be using this route

"The two do not connect where they intersect, causing a 14 km detour via 176 Street in order to reach the new Port Mann bridge deck."

.....if any?

"An important land bridge at 176 Street and Highway 1 has now been identified as a future add on, leaving a severe grade."

The grade is a red herring. Any connection to the bridge would require virtually the same grade or the removal of a significant amount of carbon storing vegetation to reduce it.

ended up on the South Fraser Perimeter

the other day after taking a detour, at least that's what I thought it was. Couldn't understand why I was the only vehicle on a shiny new highway.

In any case, wait for our next big shaker, that will be the proof in the proverbial pudding. I'm certain that sky-train bridge will collapse (heard enough stories about concrete being dropped instead of snorkeled), anyone care to take bets the new, non-functional Socredlieberal buddy built Port Mann will go down even before the rickety Patullo?

It's looking more and more like China here every day.

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-bridge-collapses-2012-8?op=1

Note to Premier Clark.

If the new bridge is such a structral mess, maybe the 1st bridge shouldn't be dismantled.

I wonder if it's possible to

I wonder if it's possible to talk to any of the construction workers who helped build this bridge and if they could comment on some of the 'unconventional' building practices that they witnessed.

New Westminster - NIMBY Central

New Westminster is part of the Metro Vancouver region yet always acts as an outcast. A hotbed of lefty nimbyism.

First there was United Blvd., which is a commercial corridor running through Coquitlam. At the New Westminster boundary, the 4-lane United Blvd. basically turns into a 1-lane short span connecting with Brunette Ave.

So when the 4-lane United Blvd. connected to the New Westminster border, what did New Westminster do years back? They put a gate up so no traffic could enter New West boundaries. Brilliant!!!

Coquitlam had to seek a Supreme Court injunction to have the gate removed.

And the feds were going to kick in a huge chunk of the roughly $60 - $100 million Translink project to extend the UBE to Brunette Ave.

Even the Skytrain Millenium Line, constructed in the late 1990's, contained an engineered "dip" to permit the UBE to Brunette.

So what happened? In May, 2011 Translink cancelled the project due to New West nimbyism at its finest. Another brilliant move!

And no... an EB SFPR to EB Hwy 1 connection at the new Port Mann Bridge does not make any logical sense. The elevation between the SFPR and PMB is quite significant. And an elevated off-ramp would require lengthy approaches. Cost prohibitive.

Then what happens when commercial rigs moving at 60 km/hr on an uphill climb meets 100 km/hr traffic coming off the PMB in the "collector lanes"? These slow-moving rigs would need to weave over 3 lanes to hit the collector-express lane that continues past 152nd Street. All I can say is - "Danger, Will Robertson".

Now we are here yet again with Translink's proposal to replace the antiquated and seismically challlenged Pattullo Bridge with a 6-lane structure meeting modern design standards.

So now what has happened? Translink has had to delay their public consultations again due to New West nimbyism. Most of New West council does not want the Pattullo Bridge replaced. In fact, they want the Pattullo Bridge removed altogether. Brilliant!

So what's gonna happen to the roughly 80,000 vehicle movements that now utilize the Pattullo Bridge?

New West council should seek some non-political transportation engineering advice, which would likely logically conclude as follows:

1. Support the new 6-lane Pattullo Bridge with an SFPR interchange at its southern bridgehead.

2. Support the Stormont-McBride Connector from the north Pattullo bridgehead to Hwy 1 as 4-6 lane expressway standard link either in a trench or cut and cover.

3. The short extension of McBride should also be cut and cover.

Voila. The majority of regional thru traffic in New West will be taken off local arterials and placed upon regional corridors, which is the wish of New West residents in any event.

But guys like Puchmeyer, a former NDP candidate and New West councillor, continue to act like ostriches with their heads in the sand.

And the new PMB

Firstly, the cables are already coated to prevent an ice build-up. Why did that not live up to the relevant sub-contractor's specs?

The "gold-plated" answer would be to wrap the cables with heat trace cables. Similar to what is installed on exterior residential/commercial pipes to prevent freezing.

And I see that the conspiracy crowd is out in full force today.

"Cars damaged by ice that fell off Lower Mainland bridge"

Pretty sensational stuff. In 2008 that was..........

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/11/bc-fallingice.html

Freeway Interchanges = More Pollution, Not Less

Chuck,

You are repeating a common myth that needs very badly to be busted. Building freeway interchanges to replace interchange will not reduce emissions; adding road capacity increases emissions. You can't build your way out of congestion, and therefore converting roads to freeways normally just increases emissions.

The rest of your article is great. But please remember that you can't build your way out of congestion. And that fact has logical consequences.

Money is cheap!

Using private partnership is just high priced money. The new Campbell River Hospital is going the be this Private Money thing again, Hey money is Cheap Cheap.
Bond money is 3% private money is what? 28%.

I see the bridge is going to pay the $200. deductable for winshields. What about the loss of a days pay, and another day lost getting the car fixed, plus gas and food etc.
I think $1000. each is fair. Just lucky no one got killed.

PS: I watched Global TV the day before the ice fell, and a reporter crossed the bridge and it showed ice/snow falling off the cables. It was a report showing it took the report over 2 1/2 hours to get to work in that first snow storm.
The Bridge Knew 48 Hours Before The Damage Was Done!!!!!!!!

Blowing well over 3 billion

Blowing well over 3 billion for a bridge that can't be used if it snows would be laughable if it wasn't such a huge waste of taxpayers dollars. so when do the BC Liberals start blaming the NDP for this mess?

and we'll keep selling coal to China

, pumping oil and natural gas and keep our heads firmly in the sand about what global warming does even as it hits us in the face through our windshields.

Hmmm.

So the owner / operators of that bridge will pay the deductible-- eh?
Meaning that we, the driving public, pay the major amount through our ICBC premiums!

Since when can you transfer blame to another party, and expect him to carry the cost through his insurance?

Since when can you own and operate anything and expect your customers to carry insurance on your behalf?

Doomed

I guess everyone by now knows why former Transportation and Finance Minister Kevin Falcon, who ushered all this through, is leaving politics.

This reminds me of another government project that went sideways, the 3 Fast Ferries except the cost of yet another BC Liberals fiasco, is far greater.

The cables are indeed coated with an epoxy coating however other cable stayed bridges that have this coating on their cables have also experienced ice buildup.

In 2007 large chunks of ice were falling from the CN Tower which caused major roadways near the tower to be closed off from traffic and pedestrians. Another tower in Japan, the Tokyo SkyTree, the largest communication tower in the world, also has had problems with ice falling down to the street. In Tokyo they installed cameras to monitor the situation and close streets down when ice builds up.

A 1.7km cable stayed bridge in Sweden, the Uddevalla Bridge, has had this problem also. I believe they found a solution besides closing down the bridge

State of the Art?

This bridge was/is claimed to be 'state of the art' engineering.

I wonder if Enbridge are using the same 'state of the art' soothsayers for their claims about their phantom pipeline.

old bridge

why did the old bridge have such a short lifespan, bridges usually last more than 40yrs.

The Clown from Cloverdale

Why aren't the media talking to the idiot who signed the Port Mann contracts? Yes, the Clown from Cloverdale, the very one- Kevin Falcon.
That idiot has caused so much mayhem in this Province - turning B.C. Ferries into a cruise ship line, making Translink a joke, defending the HST to the death and then taking 18 months to get rid of it, upping Medicare premiums and of course, this massive transportation boondoggle. Let's smoke that clown out and get his take on this f…. up.

RETORT to "New Westminster - NIMBY Central"

Congrats, this is possibly the worst argument I've read on Tyee this year.

Provincial competency would insist ALL easements and agreements are in place for a multi-city transportation project before construction.

It's absolutely ridiculous you are trying to pin New Westminster with this provincial fcuk-up.

What happened?

It must be almost 10 years now since the public were allowed to see plans for this new corridor. At the time I thought this looked great, bike lanes, parks, greenspace a nice wide uninterupted highway and a cool bridge. Like everything else compromises had to be made, or the designers gave the politicians a 'choice' of options. Too many cooks in the kitchen?
Also, don't engineers look at what does work and design accordingly. Ive never heard of the Alex Fraser bridge dropping killer snowballs?
Thats not a minor design flaw.

what happened indeed Willy

how do we get a hold of the basic parameters entered in the design software that relate to variables of temperature, humidity, freezing points and ice crystal formation on those particular cable geometries? I'd be very interested to see if they were based on unrevised basic data relied on to date. Was the actual weather at that place and time on the extreme end of the averages?

freewilly

"Ive never heard of the Alex Fraser bridge dropping killer snowballs?"

Check the link I posted above from 2008. Indeed it has

Old Port Mann Bridge

Van Isle is closer than anyone else. Bashing the Socreds and Liberals might be good sport but the problem is systemic. By that I mean our terribly designed transportation systems - yes I mean plural, Ferry, Road, Bridge, the Coquihalla fiasco, the TransCanada infamous "Highway of Death" between Revelstoke and Alberta will NEVER be cured until the engineers (is there such a word as 'imagineers' ? are relocated off lala land in Victoria to sites where they actually have to use whatever they design on a daily basis. Case in point. The "old" Port Mann bridge should have ( and easily could have) been redesigned as a permanent long-term truck bridge that could do double duty for automobile traffic as required. Get those latte sipping nerds off their tropical island. Here's another thought, relocated the entire Legislature to Chilliwack, on the old army base, it's about the right size and has an all-weather airport 10 minutes away.

Chilliwack,Ted?

You really think the 'ristos would give up their moat?

Re gateway

It would be interesting to track the connections between Campbell and the road building industry. Who are his relatives and close friends in the industry? In his last budget before he left the country for England, every budget was slashed except for highways.

Huhhhhh??

The old bridge was 5 lanes and with maintenance would have been good for years to come. Another bride like this alongside the old Port Mann would have given us the same capacity as this $3 billion bridge and would have been in the hundreds of millions.
Governments seem to want a Rolls when most BCers are happy with a Chevy!!!

To the Liberal government of BC

With the 2.46 Billion spent on the bridge you would of thought all the problems that could come with it would be taken care of by PPP (public private partnership agreement).
I believe you could sell the bridge back to Kiewit easily for a Million. They could then sell it to a buyer from the United Arab Emirates for about a half Billion. It would look pretty over there where the ice don't fall. Then your government could get the Germans to build a new bridge for 3 Billion plus, plus, plus.

Rumour that the old Port Mann's foundations are collapsing

I serviced the portable toilets on the new bridge and the rumour was that the old Port Mann bridge's foundations were being washed away by the Fraser's current.

igbymac

Obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

The author of this article is former New West NDP candidate and New West councillor Chuck Pachmayr who, IMHO, does not have any grasp of the issues. C'est la vie.

The Pattullo Bridge was downloaded by the then NDP government from BC MoT to Translink in 1999. Bad move.

Burnaby purchased the property for the Stormont Connector many years ago along Newcombe St. in Burnaby.

As a combined regional transportation corridor, this should be under BC MoT jurisdiction.

BTW, what "multi-city" transportation project? It's either under the jurisdiction of BC MoT, Translink, or both. Municipalities provide no direct financial capital to same.

And what the hell do "easements" have to do with existing R-O-W???!!!

And yes.... this mess is brought to you by your local neighbourhood, left-wing, New West NDP nimbys fucking up the rest of the region.

BTW, Merry Christmas!

Footnote

When Burnaby purchased the property for the propsoed Stormont Connector many years ago along Newcombe St. in Burnaby, the expressway was to be completed by BC MoT. New West opposes even that.

The Stormont Connector has been on the books by BC MoT for several decades. And New West dummies oppose same, which obstructs regional Metro Vancouver transport corridors and concurrently causes traffic havoc within New West itself. Just wonderful!

Once or twice a year?

Icing on the Port Mann bridge would only happen once or twice a year, so it is minor problem. Close the bridge when icing occurs.

Merry Christmas?

Do Libs and Cons even celebrate the season of giving?

Wouldn't that be hypocritical or is that why you guys spend the rest of the year trying to take it all back?

Am I the only one that can't picture ministers Falcon or Toews around a tree?

Sask Resident

Close the trans-canada when it snows? This isn't like that thing you call a highway between Speedy Creek and Moose Jaw, hundreds of thousands of people actually need this bridge.

A little legal primer

An easement is a certain right to use the real property of another without possessing it. It is "best typified in the right of way which one landowner, A, may enjoy over the land of another, B."[1]

[1] Gray, Gray, Kevin, Susan Francis. Elements of Land Law. Oxford University Press. pp. 13.

Frank

Since you come across as a rabid supporter of the NDP, I would suggest that you nominate "igbymac" as the Metro Vancouver poster-child for the BC NDP. I mean, what the hell are ya gonna lose with that posting? ;)

Heck, I will even vouch for "igbymac"'s intellectual prowess. ;)

As for Merry Christmas. Sorry. I realize that rabid NDP'ers are soooooo sensitive and politically correct that even Seinfeld's "Happy Festivus" is offensive. C'est la vie.

But as a "Merry Christmas" well-wisher myself, I also do take offense to the NDP's position in that regard. I mean:

http://www.cireport.ca/2011/12/war-on-christmas-ndp-grinches-do-not-want-christmas-holiday-but-a-hoilday-holiday.html

Now ain't that "progressive"!!!! Must be a miserable life living as a rabid, left-wing NDP'er, n'est pas? :P

Kinda outta sync with the 72% of Canadians that do wish everyone "Merry Christmas" based upon yesterday's Ipsos Canadaian public opinion poll?!

In any event, Merry Christmas Frank and let's have some more fun in the New Year!!

igbymac

A little "common sense" primer for you.

Easements are only typically utilized for underground pipeline crossings.

Regarding highways, easements are NOT utlilized!

Expropriation IS utilized.

In that vein, of the $1 billion+ cost of the SFPR, between $300 - $400 million was utilized for land expropriation costs.

IOW, BC MoT or their designate owns the land thereunder as well as the highway footprint and adjoining Right-of-Way.

If the posters on here reflect the BC NDP "brains trust", the NDP will collapse politically within 6 months if they are ever elected guvmint. Seriously.

Luke

You're quoting from some weird anti-immigrant group's website?

What's next? Something from the Northern Foundation or a Holocaust denial? That's pretty low...

...

So assuming Libs give out gifts at Christmas, is it empty boxes with a note inside promising the real gift will be coming if the Libs win the next election?

Kinda like Chretien and Martin used to do.

Forgot this

"Since you come across as a rabid supporter of the NDP"

I don't think I'm as big a supporter of the Dippers as you are of the Libs. Given our mutual track records here.

But when the day comes I hang out at right-wing websites and post the same party talking points over and over you might then have a point.

Cool Hand

Are you seriously wanting to go down this road where your comments are documented in public? Here's the problem with your thinking, Cool Hand.

Even when you do not know what the hell you are talking about, you carry on with all the pomp of a cock on a shit pile.

I'd advise you to pick your battles where you have some footing. In this case every informed person on the matter knows,

And what the hell do "easements" have to do with existing R-O-W???!!!

is written by an ignoramus on the matter.

The rest of your above argument is equally weak, too weak, in fact, to warrant further comment.

Frank

Corroborated on many websites. For example:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/08/politically-correct-ndp-replace-christmas-with-holiday

Truly "progressive"! I'd also wager that I personally provide more to the Union Gospel Mission than you earn annually. Take it with a grain of salt if ya wish. But if ya talk the talk ya better walk the walk!

Again, Merry Christmas Frank!

Luke

The Toronto Sun is a step up from your anti-immigrant website at least. A right-wing rag but at least you don't look like a Holocaust denier.

You give to the UGM? How nice, but aren't Liberals against charity?

Interesting how you guys attack people on welfare and yet crow about how much you give to the UGM.

Quite revealing, n'est pas.

3 billion dollar fossil boondoggle

Gee, I don't remember any passengers' lives being threatened by the "Fast Ferries Fiasco" of the last century, but I do remember the Liberals selling them off for LESS than scrap metal prices.

If you believe that was a good idea then Falcon's got a bridge to sell you, all over again.

All the best

All the best intentions and happy thoughts, can't make some mega projects work. It was a long time ago when this new corridor was proposed but it did recieve public input and even the lefties favoured some sort of solution. Memory is fading at bit, but I remember pictures,fancy models, fill in questionaires, meetings and dialogue etc... Shit what more can government NDP or Liberals do.
If New West is a hotbed of leftist Nimbies, what does that make North Vancouver? They have done a fair share of whining, for a half assed upgraded bridge
One of the biggest issues, and its been pointed out in this article is the amount of truck traffic, not only are the local corridors whoefully inadequate, trucks destined to the US and vice a versa backed up now even with the new bridges. Its isnt going to get any better. Rail would have been a better solution, but throughout North America rail infrastructure hasnt kept up.

The most successful road and bridge project in the past 20 years has been the Vancouver Island Inland Hwy. Not only did it cut off half the time to cover the island, opened up new communittees,new developments, employed local people and its still doing that. Is this a good thing, well not from an environmentists point of view but as an engineering project its been stellar. Of course it has its issues, it's the toiletless boring hwy with few rest stops, also its been polluted with strip malls and traffic lights, and its hurt some small businesses, kinda like the Langley bypass. But even the engineers are proud of it, underground deer crossings, bridges that have a light foot print on the environment and so on. The scope of the project is such that even light rail could use this corridor, (that Im not sure of)

@Dannyboy

Ive only driven the Coquihalla in one direction going downhill, and yes its a great highway from that perpective.
I dont give a damn what government builds these things as long as they work. If a corridor or road works great, and it meets the design parameters, we are pretty good little gophers!