The system is already

The system is already stacked in favour of the private school cuz a lot of them have entrance exams; you don't pass, you don't go (unless your mommy and/or daddy are willing to start donating huge wads of cash to grease the school wheels). Is the Fraser Institute suggesting that public schools have entrance exams too so they can pick and choose what students they want?

Add'n to above

The public system also has to serve special-needs students. And immigrants who can't speak a much English.

Private schools certainly don't produce "better" adults. A study a while back found they scored pretty much the same at UBC. Any additional achievement, in general, can probably be attributed to the fact that if you go to a private school, you're rich.

While I have little use for

While I have little use for the Fraser Institute, my personal experience is that there is a lot of dead wood in the teachers' ranks.
The scales have tipped a little too far in protecting these workers rights. A high school teacher boasted to his class that short of his physically assaulting them in the hall, there was nothing anyone could do to affect his job security.
Another high school teacher harassed and emotionally abused a student. When challenged on her conduct, the wagons were circled, no discipline applied to the teacher & the student transferred.
There has to be a way of dealing with teaching staff who are unsuited for the job. Right now, it ain't happening

A lot of dead wood?

Frances that is an exaggeration of the worst kind. There are currently ways of dealing with the few cases but it is so much easier to make the claim that one should go in with a chainsaw and cull the few and let the collateral damage fall. The Fraser Institute is a right-wing bunch of self-serving nutters who in ages passed would have been called out into the street. Now we tolerate them but why do they get such recognition now?

Public education advocates oppose teacher merit pay

This website has a lot of good info on the challenges facing public education (some of it a bit out of date), including a letter on why teacher merit pay is no silver bullet:

http://stopeducationcuts.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/letter-to-the-editor-on-teacher-merit-pay-jan-2011.pdf

dead wood...

Shywalker, it's useful to challenge blanket statements about "a lot of dead wood". On the other hand, there are teachers in the system who really ought not to be teaching, and the system is woefully inadequate in the ways these teachers are dealt with. Rarely is anyone (whether management or fellow union members) willing to step forward to address the issue. Management too often throws those who are drowning an anchor (tougher classes, assignments outside the teacher's comfort zone, etc). And fellow teachers look away, afraid to do what's right in terms of improving the teaching of colleagues who are struggling.

More on dead wood.

The problem might be with the process by which it is decided that a teacher is dead wood. I've seen case where that determination was made by someone who had reached their own level of incompetence. So who would decide and on what basis. Certainly not the testing of the whacky Fraser Institute but that is what we are talking about. All of the evaluations are qualitative and it depends on the individual. Some students perform well in classes with the alleged "dead wood". So who decides and what will be a basis? Will it lead to education based on rote memory testing.
I'm with Name above on this one but the Fraser Institute is the worst aspect of this whole debate. They are the proverbial dead wood.

Class Struggle

The Fraser Institute is trying to discredit our public education system in an attempt to decrease public support for education. The myth of the useless, overpaid teacher is just another lie.

Our public education system consistently ranks in the top 5 in the world, most often we end up in second place just behind Finland.

The most significant correlation can be found between student learning and money spent. Over the past twenty years, BC has decreased funding for education significantly. We will inevitably start to see decreases in performance, as the investment of the past is not renewed for the present and future.

This, of course, is just one of many socioeconomic class struggles we are engaged in today. Labour, women's rights, child poverty, public institutions, etc. are all under fire. The wealth of the elite is increasing, while the middle class shrinks and the number of poor grow.

At the heart of fairness and equality for all classes is strong public education. Don't let the myths and propaganda fool you into letting our world-class public education system slip through our fingers.

Progress not Politics

How about more discussion about how children are best inspired & prepared?

This is a great read from the frontlines
...
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/06/the-failure-of-american-schools/8497/

Based on provincial exams?

The futurist, Hazel Henderson, once suggested that evaluating the well being of a nation based only on GDP is like flying a 747 using only a single fuel gauge. So is evaluating the value of schools and teachers based on provincial exam results.

Easy to quantify into numerical lists and charts but only slightly better than meaningless.

Prescribed Learning Outcomes (PLOs) for courses serve a valuable guide as to where classroom instruction should go, but not the covering of as many of the overwhelming number of factoids that high provincial exam results demand.

That is not good education, only the rote memorization of applying a few formulas or linking terminology to specific categories.

Funny how many students get turned off to courses and school in general and would drop out if not for the safe, welcoming and encouraging efforts of so many teachers. Unfortunately not all.

God forbid that a teacher might deviate from an overstuffed course curriculum to discuss the causes and effects of a hockey riot or to do a numerical project analysis of age, sex, socio-economic or home origin of the rioters and the shame bloggers, something that may really interest the students as they learn.

But such deviations would lower provincial exam results in time constrained courses. Teachers are forced to teach to getting good results on the exams, little time for anything else.

Backgrounds of Special Ed, First Nations, ESL or poverty hindered kids are not reflected in the numbers.

It's remarkable how many students, even the best, have forgotten the required exam data as little as two weeks after writing it, yet this is how the Fraser Institute evaluates the quality of education and ranks schools accordingly.

Now they would determine teacher pay based on the same criteria.

How do you evaluate the joy of reading, not just the required functional vocabulary? The beauty of mathematical symmetry or topographical and historical map visualizations? Drama and improv? And so much more that our schools provide to our youth?

Provincial exam results and FI charts are much too narrow to determine quality education.

This is not just about privatization, but about controlling learning directions to produce good little worker consumers rather than fully rounded citizens.

Determination iof dead wood...

After almost 40 years as an educator, I recognize the difficulty of determining which teachers are doing a good job or not. First, let's rule out the Fraser Institutes's metrics. However, over my years of teaching, I had a pretty good idea which of my colleagues had no business being in the classroom (let me emphasize: precious few!). The students also have pretty good ideas. More often than not, my impressions were confirmed at Rate Your Teacher. Nonetheless, teacher competence is the elephant in the room that colleagues and the BCTF are reluctant to address. For every incompetent teacher, there are 20-200 sets of disgruntled parents. The impressions of incompetence thus festers. Defensive statements defending the competence clearly don't help. Don't get me wrong; I think the bulk of our teachers are not only competent but are, in fact, dedicated, skilled, and hard working. But we do ourselves a disservice by not addressing the fact that some of our colleagues aren't cutting it.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You state that it is an issue "colleagues and the BCTF are reluctant to address". I really have not found that to be the case. But if you ask a teacher who has no role in the hiring of a colleague to then become responsible for the "firing " of that colleague they will be reluctant. It is like asking them to become managers when it suits the employer. The same can be said about administration which is currently responsible for the hiring and removal of "dead wood" if it exists. Is there ever an attempt to hold them accountable for hiring "dead wood"? No, but the union, which is responsible under law to defend the members interests is suppose to become instrumental in his firing? That has legal implications.

Excellent article by Donald Gutstein

Quote: "Perhaps it's time for the Fraser Institute to implement its own program of merit pay for performance. Or perhaps it already has one in place. In 2009, the last year for which figures are available, Cowley's total compensation was $115,790 (US), while Veldhuis took home $134,078.

But, one has to ask, do they get rewarded for skill at propaganda or proper research? "

Yes, exactly. Isn't it amazing how our corporate welfare recipients always leave themselves out of the equation...and somehow above and beyond accountability? How about merit pay for our present government according to promises made, broken, and lied about... and for the mounting damages done to the common good?

A question for The Fraser Institute:

Speaking of students and children.....and those responsible for their success and well-being:

Shouldn't we be pegging the pay accorded to the premier of this province and to the BC Liberal MLA's to the continuing shameful reality that BC has the highest child poverty rate in Canada - for the eighth year in a row?

And since you are such fervent devotees and proponents of the wonders of marketing and the sacred business model, surely then merit pay must be unequivocally dependent on truth in your unquestioned god: Marketing. Soooooo.... how does 'The Best Place on Earth' square with the highest child poverty rate in Canada?

I look forward then to the Fraser Institute's press release tomorrow (as such enthusiastic proponents of merit pay) calling for the immediate docking of all pay from the premier of this province and all BC Liberal MLA's.

Otherwise, we will have to assume, your business model world view holds that child poverty is good for business....and as such you uphold it as good in itself.

It will then clearly be self-evident that your business model world view thrives in BC at the expense of the lives of children, at the expense of 'the education' of children, and at the expense of public education itself....and more to the point that the Fraser Institute apparently holds that this is a good and necessary thing.....and that you believe that those who govern in this manner are worthy and deserving of their pay.

Bad information from the Fraser Inst.

Nobody can trust anything the Fraser Institute states, they are being paid to push an agenda with no regard for the truth. They have always been that way.
How can you pay on performance when some teachers will have students that are going without food, sleep, proper lodging, all because of policy that the Fraser Inst. is pushing. They are a throw back to the 18th century.

B.C. WILL get Obama's kick-ass Reach to the Top Program 2.0

Teachers' 'Do less for more and no criticism ever' mantra has led predictably to a steady decline in education standards here.

Nothing like the endless 'busy work' teachers here favor - coloring, coloring, more coloring and putting on skits, always in cliques, I mean, groups - even in high school, for goodness sake - to dumb down or otherwise break the spirit of those who aspire to true scholarship. Count the innocent childhood hours murdered each week in assemblies designed to elicit 1984-type cheers for 'community spirit,' whatever that means - from what I've seen, mostly wasted hours at a car wash for some dubious cause or other when students should have been working through math problems and listening to Kahn Academy YouTube videos to augment their teachers' typically third-rate science lectures.

I can't begin to find words dark enough to describe the farce masquerading in schools these days first as language arts and later, English literature. Many of these teachers can't prepare even a one-pager of instructions that isn't riddled with childish spelling and grammar errors.

As parents and taxpayers and good citizens who care about the future, we have to face it: Unless something changes at a radical level we are licked. We no longer have any influence in classroom quality control. Teachers invariably overruled everything in the arsenal from surprise visits from a school board rep with the power to hire and fire to standardized testing and performance reviews by their students.

Time to take back the classroom!

Happily, as the U.S. has learned, you CAN test teacher performance and reward those who perform noticeably better. Reach to the Top has even found a way to fire teachers who don't pass muster.

Teachers, by precluding any authentic discussion with parents about this stuff even at Parent Advisory Council (PAC) Mtgs and the group parent-teacher interviews, for goodness sake, are the authors of our and their own misfortune, the high dudgeon most parents now feel toward most of them. In too many cases, they have been an obstacle to learning.

If it takes the Fraser Institute to point out their shortfalls, so be it. But my understanding is that Kevin Falcon is a big fan of Reach to the Top, and Harper's back-to-work bill for the postees has pretty much re-set the terms of collective bargaining for our overloved public servants.

What we need are more students with higher grades especially in basic skills. What we know is that the current roster and their methods are not up to the task. And let's be clear - this is NOT about money. It's about talent.

Welcome to Education - American Style

Merit pay for teachers, ranking schools, trashing teachers in the media, taking a (I'm loathe to use the word, but here goes) WORLD CLASS education system (as judged by international standards) and illegally starving it of funding for ten years so it can be sold to the private sector for profit...Welcome to the Americanization of B.C. education. The complete ignorance of pedagogic practice and the lack of alignment with the rest of Canada's investment in education, both financially and socially, leaves B.C. and Alberta looking like the Yankee hicks that created the worst education system in all of the Western democracies. Small minds with even smaller intellects, the Fraser Institute "thinkers" believe that education should be a privilege, not a right. They and the B.C. Liberals are undermining the very foundation of our democracy, trying to fashion an oligarchy that benefits the few at the expense of the many. Just like their ideological kinfolk in the good ole U S of A. Heehaw!

Education is a right not a business

Who are these Fraser guys? Have they ever been in a school as teachers? Have they ever worked with children from all different cultures, different talents etc?

I guess not because what they are saying is a total BS especially from an educational point of view.

Education is not a business.

First, it is a right of every individual in society to receive education, to learn to read, write and count.

Second, measuring performance by how a student is performing is not only detrimental to a teacher but it is also detrimental to students and relations between students. And quite frankly just a disgusting way of rewarding teachers and students alike in the education field.

As someone pointed it out and I agree fully - There is so much more to teaching than just the scores on some provincial exam. This says it all!

Let's turn the table shall we and start rewarding our politicians by how they perform and how much they help society to move forward instead of helping their own pocket and align themselves with the rich and corrupt.

Let's bring in a merit based payscale for all politicians. And let's get rid off the Fraser Institute - they really have no idea what the hell are they talking about.

I agree with other comments here - they are getting too much attention - and it is because ?

A child's grades...

...reflect the quality of teaching, the quality of parenting, the quality of the child's environment and nutrition and the innate qualities of the child.

The Fraser institute would like to punish teachers for the 95% of a child's performance that is not their responsibility, while excusing parents from their own. Everyone wants a scapegoat!

HOw do hiring/compensation

HOw do hiring/compensation systems differ among schools? Can any differences in student outcomes be linked to those differences. For example, do private schools pay more than public schools and winnow out incompetent teachers better? Let's have some real research (not just cheap exploitation of data bases put together by others). To avoid accusations of bias, maybe Fraser Institute and BCTU could JOINTLY sponsor relevant research which meets professional standards.

Return defective product?

I'll be happy to treat my classroom like a business.

Of course, that would mean the right to return defective product.

Good point fank2

"How do hiring/compensation systems differ among schools? Can any differences in student outcomes be linked to those differences. For example, do private schools pay more than public schools and winnow out incompetent teachers better? Let's have some real research (not just cheap exploitation of data bases put together by others."

I am slapping myself for not thinking of it first.

not a matter of having cake and eating it too...

@Skywalker: I stand by my assertion that teacher competence is the elephant in the room most teachers and the BCTF are unwilling to address. From my perspective, the solution to teachers having difficulty in the classroom - I prefer not to use the term dead wood - is NOT firing them. Rather, I think they need to be helped. Unfortunately, our system provides very little in the way of mechanisms to accomplish this.

But, mostly, it's because we're cowards. Who among us has the balls to approach a colleague having difficulties in the classroom, "Excuse me, I can't help noticing that your students are completely out of control and that they're nowhere near achieving set learning outcome."? Very few of us, I reckon. But we claim to be professionals. Isn't that part of being professionals: being self-regulating? I think it is.

Of course, you're also right about the onus being on managements to hire competent teachers to begin with. And to create environments in which these teachers can flourish.

The bulk of the teachers I've worked with are very competent, but we do ourselves a disservice as professionals (and a particular disservice to our students) by not establishing mechanisms with which struggling colleagues can be helped through active intervention. But that takes balls.

The Fraser Ins. is one of

The Fraser Ins. is one of the string of advertising agencies, disguised as a "distinguished, conservative economic think tank", set up by the multinational corporate mafia in the mid '70s, to sell and force the enslaving neoclassical economic theory on the world.

Of course, they promote privatization of all services, because that's what they're getting paid for.

Ed Deak.

private schools make better citizens?

Wasn't the spoilt piss-ant (and former water polo player) photographed stuffing a rag in a cop car gas pipe at the "riot" educated in a private school? And no doubt so were the Fraser "thinkless tank" goofs. They're a confederacy of dunces! Only in a country that has corporatized media such as Canada could this cabal of scum ever get any attention.

Give us the power to grade teachers

Hmmm...A job in which one has to meet goals, and be assessed against them. How awful. Reminds me of school. Oh wait, it is. Or are we suggesting that a school system in which students are tested, measured, assessed and graded in order to progress is only fair if it's teachers judging student merit? Why is vice-versa so terrible? Put succinctly: why so afraid of being graded, teacher?

Who is going to do the

Who is going to do the grading, how and for what ?

The Fraser Institute ???????????? Who will pay them to do it? The Bilderbergers, or their employees, the Harper and Clark governments ?

Ed Deak.

Let students and parents do the grading...

Ed said: "Who is going to do the grading, how and for what ?"

Dunno...how about students and parents? How? Numbers or letters on a scale...same way it's done to students. For what? What are any objectives for? Why is anything assessed and graded?

Bilderbergers, Shriners, Rotarians, and the Illuminati would all be welcome to participate, so long as it's their kids' teacher being measured. Nobody pays to do it: let me have meaningful input into the assessment of the individual who's been delegated authority over my kids development, and I'll do it for free. it ought to be a basic right of parents and students.

Uninformed outrage and propaganda

ASKBiblitz.com "'Do less for more and no criticism ever' mantra". This no brain statement resembles Tea Party rhetoric about U.S. health care that turns the factual truth upside down. But it sure sucks in a lot of folks to vote and act against their own best interests.

"to dumb down or otherwise break the spirit of those who aspire to true scholarship." Better look at those provincial exams in some subjects that top students consider trivia and a waste of time.

"Count the innocent childhood hours murdered each week in assemblies..." Whatever the value of assemblies, most are mandated by the admin., the board or even the ministry of Ed., only a few are the teachers' doings, and even these require administrative consent and backing.

"mostly wasted hours at a car wash for some dubious cause". How about providing direct FULL FUNDING to schools and courses for music programs or geology trips to mount St. Helens, or... (Interesting how much federal funding is given to French immersion.)

Numerous schools in the U.S. don't have enough money for tools in their woodwork and metalwork classes or paints and canvasses for art classes, or to replace 15 year old technology for computer and Business Ed. classes. That's the model you would have us follow?

Perhaps you should look at the Finnish education system, one of few that regularly beats out the B.C. system on international tests, rather than looking south of the border to a generally much less effective system. Of course that "socialist" nation prioritizes education funding and values beyond the 3Rs.

In Finland teachers are respected, so different from your approach, and they are given time and money to upgrade their post graduate credentials, and along with other school and district officials, are active participants in designing the courses that they teach. No provincial style exams there.

"to augment their teachers' typically third-rate science lectures." Once again, have a good look at those grade 12 provincial exams in Chemistry, Physics, Calculus or English Lit. Very few students could get decent marks on these without competent teacher help, the vast majority of parents finding such far beyond their capabilities and understanding.

"the high dudgeon MOST parents now feel toward most of them." Most parents I've heard from, including some who happen to be teachers themselves, feel that their kids are getting good service from most of their teachers.

Not all, but what profession or service is perfect, and some improvements may be in order, but "changes at a radical level" if so levelled, should not be so much focused at front line teachers and other classroom staff, but at the bureaucratic level, starting with ministers and deputy ministers of Education and Finance. Start evaluations at the top, not the bottom.

Perhaps if you sent your angry but naive diatribe to the Fraser Institute, they might higher you for their Public Relations department, then again...

Careful citing Finland

Minimum requirements for a Finnish primary teacher? A Master's degree. Which is to say: one must demonstrate a high degree of...here's the dirty word of the day...merit. How many BC teachers have master's degrees? Would you support this as a new requirement for BC teachers? Wouldn't there be an acute teacher shortage under such standards?

Easy to achieve high scores and student satisfaction, when one's teachers are so highly qualified. Doubt it would translate into the BC system very well, though.

But I'll get behind the Finnish idea: BC teachers must hereby demonstrate proficiency at a Master's level, or they don't merit the job. A very sensible idea.

Institute sounds important but just a name based on no criteria.

Apparently The Fraser Institute believes in scrutiny of teachers.... but when it comes to itself? How dare we!

From The Vancouver Observer:

Quote:

"When questioned about whether Campbell had appeared at the event, Dean Pelkey, Direction of Communications for the Fraser Institute, quickly became suspicious of what a reporter was getting at.

"An event last year, we presented Peter Brown the chairman of Canadacord Capital -although I think they've changed their name since then, you have to check their website."

"When was this?" the reporter asked.

"It was in fall of 2009. It was an event to honour Peter Brown’s contributions to BC’s economy. Gordon Campbell was not the keynote speaker but he spoke at the event," he said.

"Was it a successful event?"

"I would say it was a successful event in that we sold it out," Pelkey said.

"How much money did you raise?"

"We don't disclose that kind of information."

"How many people were there?"

"We don’t disclose that information. What is this story about?"

"Well we’re just trying to confirm facts. A source told us that Gordon Campbell was the keynote speaker at your last event."

"But what’s the story about?"

"It’s about education, the Vancouver School Board budget."

"But how is that related to Gordon Campbell and the Fraser Institute?"

"You know, we’re just trying to investigate all aspects of the story, including the political dimensions."

"But I don’t understand why an event honouring one of BC’s most successful businessmen is related to the Vancouver School Board Budget. I don’t understand why you’re asking me this question."

"We’re just trying to confirm facts."

"Are you going to write a story saying that the Fraser Institute has influence over the Vancouver School Board Budget?" Pelkey asked.

"I don’t know what the story is going to be yet, the story is developing. As I said, what happened was, in our research on the VSB budget, someone mentioned to us that Gordon Campbell was the key note speaker at your last event. All we’re trying to do is to get our facts straight."

"I don’t see how that’s related."

"Is there a reason why you’re being defensive?"

"No, I’m not being defensive. What is this really about?"

"Did you want to comment on the VSB budget?"

"No, I don’t want to do that," said Pelkey."

"I'll do it for free!"cries toquer.

I don't have to be worthy of merit. I don't have to prove qualifications, get a degree, go on a practicum, have visits from administrators. Oh no, but I'll do it for free just like the Fraser Institute. We don't need no stinkin "badges".

the comprehension is weak with you, young Skywalker

Read my comment again, then add context. The discussion is about who grades teachers, not who teaches. Capiche?

the realODB

Yes - and no doubt that the TEACHER responsible for this "piss-ant's" irresponsibility will be deverely dealt with!

The ONLY way to assess a Teacher's comptency.....

.....is through the success of the student.
And the only way to assess the success of the student is to follow her/him through life to see how well she/he succeeds.

What other criteria could possibly be used that is entirely objective?

@ toquer - I don't think the necessity to 'grade' teachers

I don't think the necessity to 'grade' teachers has been established.
In fact British Columbia's record of student achievement stands up very well. Perhaps you're not aware of this toquer.

Have a look at page 14 - 16 in this pdf:
http://www.cmec.ca/Publications/Lists/Publications/Attachments/254/PISA2009-can-report.pdf

I would agree...

...that a "teacher merit pay" system, in the public school system, built solely on a testing regimen is ridiculously simplistic and denies the individuality of students.

With we parents having no other choice but to enroll our kids in the public system, and with no choice but to be forced to fund that system, it seems redundant to impose a merit pay scheme: instead, why not allow an entirely private school system to coexist alongside the public one?

And then, letting parents vote with their wallets, I think we would see "successful" teachers better compensated...by the market.

@Kreditanstalt

Oh really! Kinda like paying bonuses to the 'market' oriented guys who brought down the American financial and real property market.

We have a private system in BC now. You may not be aware of it but more than $200 million public dollars go into it every year.

That's the fundamental 'problem' with the public system now - it's underfunded.

Take back every public dollar being spent on independent schools and put it into the public system where it belongs.

Simple stuff really - Public dollars shouldn't be used for anything but public services.

Reach For The Top -> Race To The Bottom

I have to cringe as posters laud the USA's attempts to wring performance out of their 3rd rate education system - No Child Left Behind, Reach For The Top - whatever.

Being the USA, all solutions need a big free market component which never works as advertised but guarantees a few corporate grifters will make out like bandits along the way to a new equilibrium - FUBAR.

Read this article by Prof. John Kozy for some great insight: http://tinyurl.com/Educational-Reform-or-Ineptitu

for me the idea is positive.

I don't know why assessing and evaluation teachers is such a bad idea. Obviously the Fraser "studies" are bogus. Yes its not easy to come up with a comprehensive measure that actually means something, but simply because something is not easy does not mean it is not worth doing. Personally I find peer evaluations and evaluating professors in post secondary very rewarding. I mean real evaluations though getting away from simply giving good marks because of "student solidarity". Numbers means nothing without a comment section. Its good to learn to take criticism and to learn to give honest criticism while learning areas to improve. Many of the best professors I have had as for feedback at the finale of a course orally and often passed out a form to get written feedback from those less willing to voice such things.

I think for the most part we have get teachers but simple as a form of feedback I think measures and evaluations would be useful. If I were a prof or teacher I would wish for it, IF done well.

Frances and Grub

I have 34 years of teaching in four provinces. My varied experience has one common denominator. When a teacher can't teach and is pretty much useless in a classroom they tend to become a principal. There are of course exceptions, but many of the so-called educational leaders go into to administration because they couldn't hack the classroom.

Teaching is a job as well as a profession

Teachers seem to think they are invulnerable to criticism and beyond reproach or evalution. Everyone gets evaluated, including them. The bad ones should get weeded out. Teachers (and the police) desperately need sorting out. I am all for unions, but they should never be used to shield incompetence.

Teachers get all manner of unjustified crticism and the best antidote would be a good, sound evaluation system.

Role and Responsibility

If the school teacher is responsible for the performance of his/her students, why are the the universities and employers not also responsible for their students and employees? Who granted an incompetent candidate entrance to university, a degree, a teaching diploma, a professional certificate ... who hired that person and who has not made any attempt to increase training, to help, or, if necessary, to dismiss that person? It is not the mandate of either teaching colleagues in the workplace, or the BCTF (which does not grant qualifications or evaluate teaching performance) to judge teacher competence. Look at the system ... find out whose job it is to train, certify and evaluate teacher performance, THEN form an opinion.

Merit Pay in Action

The only place that 'merit pay' has actually been in operation is at the top level of large financial institutions where huge bonuses were awarded for the measurable dollar value of instruments handled ... AND THAT WORKED SO WELL!

omitting of course anyone

omitting of course anyone paid on commission...

One Last Time

Having read this thread and having looked up the idea of merit pay through a couple of internet sites, I can only conclude that the merit pay idea is just so much BS.

Of course we want the best possible teachers doing the best possible job.

Of course we want to get rid of the teachers who are not doing reasonably good jobs.

But right now the only way that deserving teachers can get merit pay is through standardized scores which is just so much bunk it's barely worth discussing.

1. How much more will a teacher be paid for whatever scores their students get? Would it be worth the extra time and effort of already hardworking people? Teachers do other valuable stuff besides teach their courses. Do you want them to give that up to aim for a few points more on a standardize test and a few dollars more in their pocket?

2. Would poor teachers spend all their time teaching to the test instead of some of the other aspects of the curriculum and would good teachers feel forced to stop doing all the extras that they have been doing and end up just teaching to the test?

3. Do we want classroom teachers to be competing with each other to ensure their class does well or do we want them co-operating with each other? Why would someone want to help a colleague if it might mean less pay?

4. And what about the pay. Do we lower teacher salaries overall and then let the good ones collect the extra? Then we run the risk of losing beginning teachers if they see the pay scale so low and with little experience won't be as likely to get the bonus for several years. Or do we keep the salaries the same and increase an already strained budget to pay for these bonuses?

5. What emphasis would be placed on improvement rather than just the final raw score? In other words, how do you judge the teacher who works well with the low achieving student who will never score well but does improve?

6. How do we evaluate all the teachers who do not teach courses with standardized tests. How do you judge the maybe mediocre classroom teacher who has a huge influence on a smaller group students as a coach or mentor.

7. And if we make it subjective, who will be the judge? And what will be the criteria?

The education system has enough problems and enough shortfalls to discuss and deal with that the whole merit pay concept would become a colossal waste of time, energy and money.

There are still ways of evaluating teachers and getting rid of those that do not measure up. It happens. There are procedures in place.

Nobody is saying that teachers can't improve. But for god's sake, quit making it sound like it is so simple that throwing a few extra dollars to the good ones will make it so.

Gods choosen few

Try substituting the word: "Doctor" for the word:"Teacher", and you have exactly the same arguments going!

Fraser Institute workshop

A few years ago I heard about a workshop that the Fraser Institute was giving. It was for students but teachers could attend. In fact they had to attend since I doubt the speaker from the FI had a criminal record check. I did not take any students. It was an amazing session. First Nations people were attacked for consuming too much tax dollars. And the education and health care systems were attacked for the same reasons. I was shocked at what I heard. It was a total brain-washing experience for students. I asked a teacher why he took his students to such an event. He said that the students would get another perspective on politics, etc.
A few points were overlooked. First, nothing in the presentation dealt with goals of the curriculum. Secondly, did the FI speaker have a criminal record check.
It was an unbelievable display of arrogance on behalf of the FI.
This is how the Fraser Institute tries to brain-wash students and set themselves up for the future.

The Biggest Flaw In the FI Rankings

Is that they never consider those children in BC who are being educated in the home school program. Which is odd they don't since home schooling is probably the most cost effective of way of educating children and also makes those who rail about parental responsibility have to shut up as the parents who make the decision to home school their kids are obviously far more involved in their child's education than any well heeled parent with the means to ship their offspring to the sort of academic institution who wouldn't even allow the FI hacks to park their car outside much less allow them to make any attempt to grade the quality of the education they provide to the children of the well-to-do.

Friends of mine who had two boys and two businesses to run realized when the boys were still in primary grades the public system was damaging their kids and the private system would more than likely be more of the same.. Not because of the teachers or the quality of education but because of the horrible horrible children that their kids were having to deal with. Those two boys are in their twenties now and the last I heard both were off to continue their education in Europe. As for the horrible horrible children? Well I don't need to state the obvious we've all been watching the news the past couple of weeks. We reap what we sow.

TED Videa Link.

TED video of Salman Khan's reinvention of the educational process, link below. I would love to hear more of such ideas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTFEUsudhfs

BDD63

Because the FI isn't about efficacy. It's about making a buck. Home schooling offers no juicy bottom line.

The FI isn't about "rugged individualism". If it were, it wouldn't push the corporate line so enthusiastically, because said "rugged individuals" would see right through it.