The NDP could and should

The NDP could and should benefit, and be a major force for change from these corrupt jerks, in spite of Stevie's new glasses to cover his eyes, but not with Layton.

He just hasn't got it .

Ed Deak

frank2

I agree, that's an issue where there simply shouldn't be any retreat from. Corporate taxes simply aren't high.

What stuns me is that how

What stuns me is that how come the Liberals or the NDP don't counter the Conservative attack ads. Hell, there is more than enough fodder for the Opposition on Harper and his past. Wasn't it back in '04 that Harper approached the BLOC to form a coalition Government? Didn't Harper back in '01 go to some Republican lovefest in the States and do a trash-talk speech about Canada? How about his sojourns with the Tri Lateral Commission?

The NDP never had any

The NDP never had any communicators who knew communications from holes in the ground.

The opportunities they miss to warn and inform the public of the major, destructive corruption going on, are enough to make grown people cry.

This goes for both the feds and BC.

Ed Deak.

Layton elected Harper

I clearly recall that Layton brought down Paul Martin and gave birth to the Harper era. All because the NDP was a few points up in the polls at the time. You can thank Layton for all these Harper years...

Van Isle

"What stuns me is that how come the Liberals or the NDP don't counter the Conservative attack ads"

That costs a lot of money and there's not even an election on. The NDP and Liberals exist on public financing, the Conservatives on the other hand have a massive war chest.

I bet the Libs and NDP haven't even paid all their bills from the last election.

elbillug

Then your memory is wrong. It was Martin who said no to what the NDP wanted.

It was Martin who didn't put the legislation he wanted to pass before the house, preferring instead to go to the polls on those promises. But after more than a decade in power people didn't believe he would bring in the same things the Liberals had been promising when Chretien first won election. After all, they had had majority governments and those promises were never kept. Layton said publicly the NDP would support that legislation if Martin brought it before the house.

And finally, look at the numbers. The NDP didn't hold the balance of power. Even if every NDP MP had voted with Martin it wouldn't have been enough. The Libs needed the support of either the Cons or the Bloc to stay in power.

elbillug, Layton did not force an election

Since the days of David Lewis, when he forced an ill-advised election, all major political parties do not want to be labelled as the cause. They are all cognizant of that dilemma, and they also know Main Stream Media will skewer them if they do.

All parties play the game, to the detriment of our so-called democracy. They all want to point the finger at an opposition party as the reason for an election being called.

This process is worn out. I say bring on an election and let the electorate decide. Harper, even with a minority, machinates for the benefit of the elite and corporations at the expense of the general populace. I just hope the public wakes up soon.

Ads are one thing, but how

Ads are one thing, but how to make the news is the most important and doesn't cost anything.

My mute button is the shiniest. The only thing I watch on TV are the news and even there I haven't listened to a commercial, except by accident, since I have a remote.

Must be the same for many millions.

I've been trying to explain this to the NDP, also how to raise large amounts of funds. Some lower execs have been very interested, and were in touch with me but not the leadership.

And Layton is the dullest.

Ed Deak.

coming elections

Thanks, Murray. I've always wondered about that whole connection to Paul Martin's reduced financial transfers to provincial purses/general funds instead of our direct "tax" money going to the health and education of future canadians that it SHOULD have gone towards...in the name of "paying down the federal debt" for which he is so often clapped on the back for doing.

This was much like the carbon tax here in B.C. going to general prov. funds instead of being targeted for R&D enviro energy dev't or health and education for the future. Having healthy, well educated citizens who are able to think critically about how provincial resources are used and how gov't handles this wealth for the benefit of all not just a corporate few, is a priority in my books.

Yes and yes! Jack Layton is trustworthy and on the side of the average taxpayer. But no and no it is not his fault that Mr. Harper took over. We cannot put up with a first past the post voting system any longer. We cannot further allow huge corporate funding of individual campaigns.We need to take a long and serious look at how lobbyists get in on all the gov't decisions action.

Tell the folks over in North Africa that there is more to democracy than what appears to be one vote:one person.
We need proportional representation and we need those "social media" kids to continue to push the envelope and push on with their involvement for public discussion and public forum on those who rule our lives and pocketbooks.

proportional rep

Let me clarify that I don't believe that voting can be done electronically so that my dog can also have a pin number for me to manipulate alongside my own vote. Putting down my X beside some well analyzed choices of individuals that are qualified to honestly represent the concerns and issues and new ides of their constituents must be done in person at polling booths. True representation must be truthful.

Not sorry Smartie Martin is gone

What I'm sorry for is Harper is still hanging on with plenty of stories for Canadians. Only problem is what can you believe?
Very little as GCP is said to be higher because business is hot but it is not. What is driving comodities but the price of Oil and quantive easing has got to cost%.
If it is to good to be true it usually is Not! A good thing to remember when taking in what the Conservative lot have to say.

If not Jack, who?

For those who think Jack isn't the best leader for the federal NDP, who do they propose become the new leader? We've seen the Liberal leadership, post Martin fiasco.

Jack appears articulate, honest and humorous. Can't complain much except for a few gaffs.

It is the right wing branding of the NDP as tax and spend, (now also pushed onto the Liberal brand as well) that would doom Canada to poverty and debt, while Harpo and his cronies would carefully navigate Canadian corporate tankers through the coastal tax hazards out to the utopic open waters of free market trade.

The Embridge pipeline is a done deal, despite all its hazards. No opposition leader can be seen to object for fear of being labelled as opposed to job creation and economic prosperity. Good luck Joyce Murray.

Just like many Tea Partiers vote against their own best interests, so too here. The middle class is getting thin, but they often buy into the Harpo-Flaherty "Common Sense" economic model. Who actually votes for John Baird?

If the federal NDP could shake that brand which creates such fear, maybe they could become bigger players in Canadian politics.

Of course Proportional Representation would go far to provide the opportunity to clean up the mess in the current system.

anyone but Harper and his gansters

So long as it's NOT Harper and NOT that bunch of gangsters which high-jacked the real Fed. Conservative party, I and many, many others in this country increasingly don't care. It really is ANYONE BUT.

Layton elected Harper part II

Hmmm. Google is your friend. From http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/parliament38/index.html
Nov. 21, 2005:
The House passes an NDP motion that calls on Prime Minister Paul Martin to dissolve Parliament in January for a Feb. 13 election. The Liberals say they will ignore the non-binding motion, clearing the way for a motion of no-confidence to be introduced later in the week.
Nov. 28, 2005:
MPs from the Conservative Party, the New Democratic Party and the Bloc Québécois vote to bring down the Liberal government, meaning a general election is imminent.

Fact is that the NDP (along with independents) did hold the balance of power, and did keep the liberals in power until the no confidence vote. By then polls showed the NDP would have significant gains if there was vote and Jack decided to go for it. And they did get more seats, only to become irrevelant with Harper in power. So naive. See this Walrus article:
http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/2006.05-politics-jack-layton-ndp-fake-left-go-right/

So Layton is directly responsible for kicking Martin out, and did his utmost to get Harper into power (because he knew that he was competing for the liberal votes, not the conservative ones). I have no love lost for Martin, but I would take him over Harper any day.

See Democracy report cards for 2008 election, and Cons' record

Democracy and government accountability have been central issues for voters in federal elections for the past 20 years, and it will be again in the next election.

These issues were main reasons why the Chretien Liberals were elected in 1993 (they made many democratic reform promises), why the Chretien Liberals almost lost their majority in 1997 (they broke many of their promises), why the Martin Liberals were defeated in 2006, and why the Dion Liberals lost so badly in 2008 (like Martin, Dion had nothing in his platform that promised to end politics as usual) and why the Harper Conservatives won in 2006 (they had an extensive democratic reform platform) but didn't win a majority in 2008 (they had nothing in their platform).

See the details about the parties' 2008 platforms at:
http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/RelsOct1008.html

See the details about the Conservatives' actual record on these issues since 2006:
http://www.dwatch.ca/camp/RelsDec1710.html

Hope this helps,
Duff Conacher, Coordinator
Democracy Watch
http://www.goodgovernment.ca
Organizer of the CoffeeParty.ca movement
http://www.CoffeeParty.ca

Is it a personality game?

So, Fiat Lux, you think Layton is dull?
Well compared to Carole James (whom you liked) he is a great entertainer!
I fully agree that it is too bad we need to cater to voters demand for charisma, because in my world we would not even see the legislators only hear and read their policies.
We the citizens should be smart enough to attend meetings and help form those policies, then let the elected people do their job as instructed.

elbillug

The Liberals and NDP combined did not have enough seats. The Liberal budget had passed previously only because independent Chuck Cadman voted with the Liberals.

And the Liberals were only that close because Belinda Stronach had crossed the floor. Without her the Liberals and NDP would have been 3 votes short, assuming everyone on both sides showed up.

In spite of the findings of the Gomery Inquiry Layton offered to vote with the Liberals in return for some concessions from the Liberals. One was the NDP wanted the Libs to move against the private provision of healthcare. The Libs refused. Why? Were the NDP demanding too much? I don't think so.

Over the years Liberals have said we'd have child care and the Kelowna Accord now if it wasn't for the NDP too. Hoping of course that people won't remember that both the NDP and the BQ offered to fast track those bills and let the government survive into January on condition that Martin call an election in January for February but Martin refused. He refused because he wanted to campaign on those issues, even though that would it 12 years that the Libs had been campaigning on child care.

As for Harper, how exactly has he been any worse than Chretien and Martin? They are the ones who slashed healthcare, allowed increased privatization, slashed transfers to the provinces which resulted in cuts in every province, cut corporate taxes and so on. So why would the NDP support them? No one can tell me Harper has been worse, he hasn't.

If the Liberals were such a great government they would've won that election or the one following with Stephane Dion. The reason they didn't is because no one believes them anymore. They always run from the Left and govern from the Right.

alive

Ed wasn't a supporter of Carole.

attack ads, and propaganda

Yes, I too wonder why the Opposition parties don't do something better to counter the silly attack ads about Ignatieff. I think the people commenting above could come up with some pretty good ones ideas.

As for the money, I have had some bumper stickers done in Salmon Arm ($2 each), the one favoured by my friends reads : "For divine rule vote Lord Harper". We were also planning one that reads "Next time - anyone but Harper", or how about "Save Canada - vote out Harper" I still have about ten of those left.

This is a cheap way to spread ideas around, if you can boil your message down to two liners. It's fun. We all drive. I would suggest a bright background, like a screaming yellow, or iridescent pink or green to catch people's eye.

Leaflets are also cheap, and can be strategically placed -- I would suggest the info about Harper's depradations to destroy Canada could be a good one pager. Call yourself something like "the committee to save Canada" (to sign off on these).

It's called Guerilla Advertising in the business world. I was in real estate sales for a time years ago, and you learn to be inventive. It's a cut throat business, and you only get paid if you sell something. Hunger tends to focus your mind. And here we are losing our country, that should focus all our minds, right?

Layton elected Harper part III

It was not about having enough seats. The NDP voted to bring down the government. It wasn't about the liberals+NDP not having enough seats to keep the liberals in power. We can argue whether the government would have been brought down anyways if the NDP had not been the one initiating the non-confidence, but that is discussion on an empty hypothetical. Fact is they brought the motion, and they voted for the government to be ousted.
That, along with their election-time tactics, ensured Harper's election. Now for people that prefer Harper over the liberals, that's clearly a good thing. I'm not in that camp. Having Harper in power sure did a lot for the Kelowna accord and child care...
Lastly, the argument that "If the Liberals were such a great government they would've won that election or the one following with Stephane Dion". So being in opposition means you'd be a lousy government ? Where does that leave Jack Layton?

Murray said:

This has been the simple fact since 1867. It is such a staple of Canadian politics that it should have been taught in history classes. Perhaps if it had been, people would be more rightly up-in-arms......

elbillug

If its not about the NDP and Liberals combined not having enough seats then the question is what's in it for the NDP to support a right-wing government.

Martin said no to a formal coalition, no to the NDP having a few cabinet seats and no to NDP policy input. There was simply nothing in it for the NDP to support a government that had been bashing the poor and making life better for corporations.

The party should wear its voting against the survival of that government as a badge of honour.

Does anyone believe this?

In reviewing the legacy of Paul Martin Mr Dobbin made the following comment.

"He was also responsible for implementing a ferocious "labour flexibility" program designed -- successfully -- to flatline Canadian wages and salaries through deliberately creating a seven-year recession."

Does anyone really believe that Martin did that. And, if so, why would he desire a "seven-year recession" as his legacy?

Does Jack want to go up against Bob?

Not only is the calendar becoming filled up but there are many, many considerations to take into account, some don't really deal at all with the way the country is run - or who's running it.

Here's a very interesting take:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/945381--persichilli-partisan-and-personal-interests-behind-election-talk

Does anyone believe this?

I am no Lib supporter but a question is begged<<

Right On!

You are so right on, BoxcarBrad! I'm going to work for getting Elizabeth May ( leader of Green party) back to the election DEBATE Table on TV. She's going to run for cons. Gary Lunn's seat in Saanich(Victoria)in the next federal election. Boy did she ever hold Steven Harper's feet to the fire in that debate for which Stephan Dion helped her get on board when Harper didn't want her included. This just seems like a Nellie McClung issue;you know the Manitoba lady that got the vote for first provincial women in Canada.
But yes! I want Jack Layton to be prime minister of Canada.

“Fresh Issue for Spring Election: Democracy”

Comment on “Fresh Issue for Spring Election: Democracy”
by Murray Dobbin, 28/2/11 The Tyee.ca

Murray raises the question: “Will there be a real contest of ideas in this election?” and then answers it, “Not likely”.

How about these for issues:

(1) Canadians paid $82-million a day on unnecessary public debt interest. This is just the interest paid by the federal government. In 2009 total interest on federal, provincial and municipal debt amounted to $160-million per day which amounts to about $5 per day for every man, woman and child, or $20 a day for a family of four.

(2) Federal government refuses to borrow from its own bank, the Bank of Canada, at zero cost, preferring to borrow privately and pay commercial rates. By failing to use the Bank as it should have for the past 30 years our federal governments have instituted a process of upward flow of money – the reverse of trickle down economics. Huge debts have accumulated, the federal net debt amounting to $525-billion on 31/3/09. To pay the interest the government takes money from ordinary tax payers and gives it to the banks and other wealthy corporations and bond holders. This leads to inequality in our society where those who have get more.

(3) Both Liberal and Conservative governments have shown either gross incompetence in the handling of tax payers money or gross misconduct. To brand the NDP as “tax and spend” is to cover up their own practice of “tax and give the money away”.

(4) The NDP has been its own worst enemy. It adopted a resolution in 1995 to restore the Bank of Canada’s direct control over Canada’s money supply and to increase Bank of Canada funding of the public debt, both federal and provincial. Such measures, if adopted by a government, would mean that the government could finance investment in public infrastructure and services at zero interest and contain inflation by adjusting the ratio of reserves chartered banks are required to hold with the central bank, a power abrogated by Brian Mulroney in 1991. If this resolution had been promoted by the NDP it would have (and could still get) the support of many Canadians who see their income eaten up by a myriad of taxes to pay billions for the interest on unnecessary public debt. BUT the NDP has ignored this resolution for 15 years in spite of many pleas to act on it!!

Richard Priestman
Committee on Monetary and Economic Reform
Kingston Chapter