Can selective breeding

make the difference?

In Jude's life

All roads lead to acidification.

If she knew a little bit about oceanography, she would be aware that ocean acidification is simply impossible.

If she does know about oceanography, then she is intentionally trying to deceive us.

Illahie

Jude Isabella is well versed in oceanography. Personal insults directed at Tyee writers -- accusing them of ignorance or intentional deception -- is not allowed in the Tyee comment code of conduct.

http://thetyee.ca/Comments/FAQ/#7

Just curious

"ocean acidification is simply impossible."
I certainly hope you are correct and I'd like to learn more.
However I have been an observer on these waters now and then for some 60+ years.
I don't claim to be an oceanographer but even I know shore life is dying.
Do you ever go fishing?
As opposed to phishing?

Climategate 3

"Many terrible things have resulted from the great climate scam – the debasement of the scientific method, the corruption, the rent-seeking, the greed, the lies, the blighted careers, the malfeasance, the dissemination of ignorance, the waste, the environmental damage – but the worst thing by far is the human misery it has engendered."
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100206888/climategate-foia-the-man-who-saved-the-world/

Nah, ocean acidification is just

more pathologizing of the normal. Big Pharma has been doing it for years. CO2 is plant food and it feeds ocean algae just the way it feeds grass. Then the cows eat the grass and we eat the cows,or choose not to, as the case may be.

Mussels are also fed by algae, just as the cow is fed by the grass.

Upwelling is something we have no control over and the problem with the waters resulting from upwelling is lack of oxygen, not neccesarily CO2. It is a very different situation from normal shoreline water aeration due to wind and waves.

The upwelling happens every year and sometimes it is above normal, as was the recent episode which alarmists salivated over and misrepresented.

"When seasonal wind patterns change in spring, north winds create upwellings of deep and more acidic seawater off the Pacific Northwest coast. These waters — with their lowered pH and lack of available calcium carbonate in the form of what’s called aragonite — are what have been killing the oyster larvae. The availability of aragonite is particularly vital at an oyster’s earliest stages of development. In the first 24 to 48 hours of an oyster’s life, as it forms its first shell, the larvae go from being almost 0 percent shell to at least 70 percent shell before they begin to grow more tissue, explains George Waldbusser, assistant professor of ocean ecology and biochemistry at Oregon State University’s College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences. Lower aragonite saturation means the tiny larvae — much smaller than a poppy seed — need to expend more energy to make their shells."
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/northwest_oyster_die-offs_show_ocean_acidification_has_arrived/2466/

Note the word "seasonal" in the above.

R. Hamilton is a new name around here, yes?

Illahie and mememine69 have been around for a while, as have I. The likelihood of us being machines is remote, besides, all the money for that stuff is on the Alarmist side. Between Desmogblog and the Suzuki foundation, I betcha there is far more time and money available to support that type of false consensus building, if the truth be told!

just ignore the professional Denialist lice

they glomm onto any thread even vaguely climate change related.

It is still possible to have a serious discussion on ocean acidification. I would be interested in hearing if any research has been directed at a technological fix, ie: something on the physical order of the iron oxide dumping recently conducted on our shores.

yep

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/feb/23/need-to-protect-internet-from-astroturfing

geoengineering is the reason

this is an interview everyone should listen to http://www.coalitionagainstgeoengineering.org/pages/724
also http://www.corbettreport.com/geoengineering-the-real-climate-change-threat/

My dear Howard

The temperature trend has been going up since the Little Ice Age ended in the 1850s, and nobody yet has been able to show that CO2 is what done it!
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3
The Sun's activity, on the other hand, has been steadfastly ignored by those who would have us all feeling guilty about living and breathing.

"Scientists have been studying solar influences on the climate for more than 5000 years.Chinese imperial astronomers kept detailed sunspot records, and noticed that more sunspots meant warmer weather. In 1801, celebrated astronomer William Herschel, the first to observe Uranus, noted that when there were fewer spots the price of wheat soared. He surmised that less “light and heat” from the sun resulted in reduced harvests."
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=11282&linkbox=true&position=5
You said:
"And it may be that increases in OA will be beneficial to organisms such as phytoplankton, but that won't help many of the things we like to eat (salmon, rockfish, tuna, etc) which prey on higher life forms (specifically pteropods and other planktonic stages of invertebrate species) that are dependend on calcification processes to exist. "
Hello...have you forgotten the food chain? Small things get eaten by big things? More CO2 means more plankton which ultimately means more fish.

"Ocean acidification" is recycled every time the bad news piles up about MMCGW being totally and equally bogus.

It's the Sun what warms the Earth, and it hasn't warmed since 1998.

bella

more chemtrails paranoia is as bad as denialism, can we PLEASE stick to the actual topic at hand?

Howard:

if I may direct you to the comments in this eight part Tyee series:

http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/01/24/Climate-Change-Crash-Course/

It will save you time.

aha! you, sir, Mr. Baird,

of all people should be able to comment on geo-engineering possibilities. OTEC could conceivable move huge volumes of nutrients and other substances, surely your researches must have touched on this particular issue?

there are ideas it seems:

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/a-novel-strategy-to-counter-ocean-acidification.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2007JC004373/abstract

Your grandkids will call you believers Reefer Madness clowns

REAL progressives doubt question and challenge all authority especially one that threatens our children.
Science agrees climate change is only “possible” as opposed to comet hits that science agrees are “imminent”.
“Science says it is real and is happening and could cause a climate crisis.”
27 years of “could” proves it “won’t” be a crisis. Help my planet could possibly be potentially on fire maybe? Occupywallstreet does not even mention CO2 in its list of demands because of the bank-funded carbon trading stock markets ruled by corporations and trustworthy politicians.

"Chemtrails paranoia", Hak?

I guess you haven't looked up for a long time. It seems to me that instead of concentrating your efforts on blaming a beneficial trace gas for man made climate change, one should be looking to the real, ongoing programs to control climate and use weather as a military weapon. A few more parts per million of CO2 is entirely beneficial for the Earth, but barium and aluminum are toxic.
http://www.bariumblues.com

they make hats

out of aluminum AND barium now? WOW!

What happens when you take the "shell" out of "shellfish"

Nicks said: "It's the Sun what warms the Earth, and it hasn't warmed since 1998."

What hasn't warmed, the sun, or the earth? Don't tell us it's the earth... http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-01-15/2012-was-world-s-10th-warmest-year-on-record-noaa-reports...Sunspot activity is low but warming continues... Further, from what i've seen, the flux in solar energy output can account for some variability around but not the overall trend in earth warming. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cmb-faq/globalwarming.html

re: "more plankton means more fish"
Not necessarily so...think about harmful algal blooms... eutrophication... deoxygenation... gotta have the right plankton or you just get jellyfish... i.e., what happens when you take the "shell" out of "shellfish"..

cheers,
not dear
and not yours

I will miss the tuna

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/specialsections/40th-anniversary/Jellyfish-The-Next-Kings-of-the-Sea.html?device=ipad

There you go again, Hak!

Nothing real to say in the face of endless evidence of geoengineering, so you resort to quips impugning the sanity of the presenters of the evidence. Tuna has been overfished, nothing to do with CO2.

If I thought you were other than a professional alarmist, I would urge you to use the links bellabell provided above. Geoengineering is the real man-made climate danger and is supported by the likes of proud eugenicist Bill Gates.
http://www.infowars.com/scientists-warn-geo-engineering-can-kill-billions-of-people/

I guess "dear" Howard doesn't venture far enough off the reservation to understand that there has been no warming for 17 years and it has been cooling since 2005.
http://www.real-science.com/warming-17-years

Algae overgrowth, which causes eutrophication is caused by fertilization from things like agricultural runoff and sewage, not a few more parts per million of CO2. You are scrambling for relevance, so you are throwing in the kitchen sink, literally.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eutrophication

Large volumes of nutrients and other substances

Hakuin, conventional OTEC moves 400 cubic meters of water/sec to produce 50MW. One fellow from MIT says, and I concur, this would pasteurize the water involved. As a solution I have proposed the use of a closed cycle, a heat pipe, in which 8 m3/sec of the working fluid is the only thing that moves. The heat moved to the depths with such a system would induce convection that would bring nutrients phytoplankton require back to the surface. For additional info The Existential Imperative: Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion - http://theenergycollective.com/jim-baird/184496/ocean-thermal-energy-conversion

So then OTEC

could be conceivably part of a mixing cycle to stir anti-acidification agents into the sea on a large scale...

I may be grasping at straws here, but as much as I've enjoyed the jellyfish I've eaten I have a problem with them being ALL the seafood available.

Climate blame believers HATE children!!!!!

Science never did say it will be crisis, only might be so if “maybe” is a good enough reason to fear monger billions of helpless children you are worse than any war mongering neocons.
27 years of “science” confirming comet hits are “eventual” and “imminent” and confirming that climate change is only “likely” and “possible” proves climate change “won’t” be a crisis. Deny that.
Former climate change believers are better planet lovers. We don’t WANT this misery to be real for our children.
Find us one single IPCC warning report that isn’t swimming “maybes”. Help my house could be on fire maybe?

Climate modeling sucks

London, 15 March: A new report written by Dr David Whitehouse and published today by the Global Warming Policy Foundation concludes that there has been no statistically significant increase in annual global temperatures since 1997.

After reviewing the scientific literature the reports concludes that the standstill is an empirical fact and a reality that challenges current climate models. During the time that the Earth’s global temperature has remained static the atmospheric composition of carbon dioxide has increased from 370 to 390 ppm.

“The standstill is a reality and is not the result of cherry-picking start and end points. Its commencement can be seen clearly in the data, and it continues to this day,” said Dr David Whitehouse, the author of the new report.

The report shows that the temperature standstill has been a much discussed topic in peer-reviewed scientific literature for years, but that this scientific debate has neither been followed by most of the media, nor acknowledged by climate campaigners, scientific societies and prominent scientists.
http://thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2013/03/Whitehouse-GT_Standstill.pdf

If there hasn't been any temp

If there hasn't been any temp increase since 1998, how is it that we haven't had any -40C here in the Cariboo since 1995 and various areas are breaking all high temp records all over BC. The coldest we we had, for 1-2 nights, this winter was about -17 C, but the days have been up to +10C .

The voting, party affiliation records, work and investments of deniers would be very interesting to know, as they would show where they come from, how and why ?

They remind me of the nazi holocaust deniers who popped up some 10 years after the war.

Ed Deak.

Meme job

Settle down - your house is not on fire - but it is full of leaking pipelines and oil-soaked rags, so would you mind putting out that cigarette?

Whitehouse report

Interesting report, thanks for posting.

A few points from a brief scan of the document:

First, the fact that existing climate models are not effective in predicting short-term variations in one variable - temperature - should not come as a surprise -- climate science is as Whitehouse says, at the beginning rather than at the end of its lifetime. It only tells us we need to monitor more, analyze more, understand more and feed more into the models to improve them. There already appear to be many improvements over the years, incorporating solar flux, aerosols (volcanic and otherwise?), ocean climate (ENSOs etc). The model by Lean and Rind (2009) does a good job of showing the contribution of these other components to the warming trend, offsetting and dampening or reinforcing the effects of anthropogenic effects which continue to drive the temperature response in a positive direction (p. 20). And yes, water vapour should be included if there's evidence of any effect.

Secondly, i don't see how Whitehouse can say the analysis is NOT based on "cherry-picking start and end points" when the "standstill" is defined as "real" because it's persisted for wow, a whole 15 years. There have been other obvious plateaus in the past century (1960s for example), all similarly noisy, but the warming trend over a geologically brief climatogical period (since the 1800s) remains UP, Whitehouse does not dispute that. In fact, though he refutes a straight-line linear increase, he appears to support the equally devastating notion of a stepped, regime-level change in climatology -- moving from noisy plateaus at one thermal level followed by rapid changes to a higher plateau. Likely the result of highly nonlinear tipping point shifts that we don't understand. Linear changes are not the globe's way of doing things, that should be obvious. The question is: what plateau will the NEXT shift take us too, and what is the role of CO2 emissions (the one thing humans can certainly do something about) in that highly unpredictable process?

Likely the result of highly nonlinear tipping point shifts that

we don't understand."

Yes. But we do understand the possible risks. Which is what should dictate our behaviour. Is it possible that we should take the Precautionary Principle and extend it to forcibly restraining those drilling holes in our lifeboat?

Hoist on his own petard

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/19/santers-17-years-needed-for-a-sign-of-climate-change-compared-against-the-ipcc-models/

The role of CO2 "emissions" in "climate change" is NIL!

It's the Sun Stupid!
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/02/20/its-the-sun-stupid-the-minor-significance-of-co2/

"Those who can make you believe absurdities

can make you commit atrocities"
Boy, would Voltaire have had a field day with this atrocity:

"As from next month, Drax (the biggest coal fired power station) will embark on a £700 million switch away from burning coal for which it was designed, in order to convert its six colossal boilers to burn millions of tons a year of wood chips instead.

Most of these chips will come from trees felled in forests covering a staggering 4,600 square miles in the USA, from where they will be shipped 3,000 miles across the Atlantic to Britain.

The reason for this hugely costly decision is that Drax has become a key component in the so-called ‘green revolution’ which is now at the heart of the Government’s energy policy.

Because it burns so much coal, Drax is the biggest single emitter in Britain of carbon dioxide (CO2), the gas supposedly responsible for global warming.

The theory is that, by gradually switching to wood — or ‘biomass’ as it is officially known — Drax will eventually save millions of tons of CO2 from going every year into the atmosphere, thereby helping to prevent climate change and save the planet."
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=11281&linkbox=true&position=8

This is a test............

This is a test............

Ed, I'll try again

It warmed from 1979 to 1998. Temperatures have stopped going up...so yes, you may not have had the severe winter temperatures you have been used to, because it has been warmer.

Now, while temperatures(average global from satellite data) have leveled off and/or cooled over the last 17 years, CO2 has continued to rise. According to the MMCAGW hypothesis, temperatures should have continued to rise.

They haven't.

The hypothesis is thus falsified. Since there is no longer a correlation between CO2 levels and global temperature, we must acknowledge that there is no causation involved.

If we don't, we too will be shipping off wood to chip and waste when coal is the appropriate thing to be using.

We know higher CO2 levels have beneficial effects on plant growth, so burning coal just adds a few more parts per million to the atmosphere. There is more Argon at 1%, than there is CO2 at 0.04% in the atmosphere, and human activity only accounts for 3-5% of the total.

Yes, the climate is changing, and it looks like your good old days of severe cold are coming back, as some astrophysicists, (the ones that pay attention to sunspot activity) have been predicting.

http://climaterealists.com/attachments/ftp/WANews13No5_The_new_Mini_Ice_Age_is_upon_us_IdesMarch.pdf

Nick...I stopped being a

Nick...I stopped being a "believer" at 18.

There are all kinds of articles warning against climate change and those of us living in the bush can see the daily evidence.

Are you living in a city and what ideology are you supporting ?

I've tried to forward the site of this article, but it doesn't work.

*

Superheated American City Dealing with 110 Degrees for 33 Days -- Phoenix Confronts Apocalyptic Climate Change

Horrific heat, droughts, windstorms, water shortages and forest fires will plague nation's 13th largest city
http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_i

If cities were stocks, you’d want to short Phoenix.

Of course, it’s an easy city to pick on. The nation’s 13th largest metropolitan area (nudging out Detroit) crams 4.3 million people into a low bowl in a hot desert, where horrific heat waves and windstorms visit it regularly. It snuggles next to the nation’s largest nuclear plant and, having exhausted local sources, it depends on an improbable infrastructure to suck water from the distant (and dwindling) Colorado River.

In Phoenix, you don’t ask: What could go wrong? You ask: What couldn’t?

And that’s the point, really. Phoenix’s multiple vulnerabilities, which are plenty daunting taken one by one, have the capacity to magnify one another, like compounding illnesses. In this regard, it’s a quintessentially modern city, a pyramid of complexities requiring large energy inputs to keep the whole apparatus humming. The urban disasters of our time -- New Orleans hit by Katrina, New York City swamped by Sandy -- may arise from single storms, but the damage they do is the result of a chain reaction of failures -- grids going down, levees failing, back-up systems not backing up. As you might expect, academics have come up with a name for such breakdowns: infrastructure failure interdependencies. You wouldn’t want to use it in a poem, but it does catch an emerging theme of our time.

Yeah, but what does CO2 have yto do with all of that, Ed?

Sure, the world is still going to "hell in a handbasket", just as it always has, but nobody can prove a tiny bit more CO2 is what's pushing it there.

Get a grip, you have been lied too by some very fancy, well paid shills for the Elitist Establishment that want us all gone so they can have it all to themselves. You also don't seem to understand the difference between cause and effect.

Can you tell me that CO2 also cause incidents like this?
http://www.azcentral.com/ news/ state/ articles/ 20130220phoenix-flagstaff-winter-storm-hits.html -
20 Feb 2013 ... Snow, hail and rain falls in Phoenix area; snow falls around Arizona,Snow, hail and rain left a blanket of white in part of the Valley on ...

CO2 only causes plants to grow. It doesn't change climate and it don't destroy levees neither.

stop picking at it Ed

it'll never heal

That link no longer works

"Photos from central Phoenix showed graupel, also known as "soft hail", lining the streets and blanketing cars.

An ABC15 viewer photo from 7th Street and Maryland showed the graupel falling as thick clouds covered the sky. Another image showed cars in a lot at 16th Street and Northern covered with the rarely-seen "snow".

See the photos in the slideshow above.

The chilly conditions have been helped by a nearly-20-degree drop in temperatures."
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/snow-in-phoenix-graupel-falls-in-valley-during-february-storm
So tell me the mechanism by which CO2, a trace gas, can cause temperature to drop that much that fast.

Last week, Europe was shut down by snow, which it seems has to do with changes to the jet stream. Tell me how CO2 does that?
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=11308
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21763824

You are right, Hak. I consider what I here do a moral duty, except it is just the same stupid arguments over and over and it's boring.

Nick... If there's one thing

Nick... If there's one thing that I've learned in my rather long life, it is that there's no point in arguing with the faithful and always leave room for doubt.

If there's no present global warming, what makes the Poles break up and melt away, causing all kinds of worries and problems ?

I have genuine world class scientist friends, not some hacks paid off by polluters, who are very worried, and that's good enough for me, apart from what we can see all around us.

Perhaps we should also have a debate on which prophets of which religions have been instructed by God on how to kill the other guys?

We bought our land in Nov. 1975 and when we came built a cabin on Victoria day 1976 in May, there were still large snow piles around and we could never plant a garden in the following years until well into June.

We had +10C today, in mid March and the snow is melting all around. The same story for years.

Ed Deak.

The Arctic has a cycle, it's ice has gone down many times before

1,500-year cycle in the Arctic Oscillation identified in Holocene Arctic sea-ice drift

"Weather and climate in the Northern Hemisphere is profoundly affected by the Arctic Oscillation, a quasi-periodic fluctuation in atmospheric pressure that occurs on interannual to interdecadal timescales1. Reconstructions of the Arctic Oscillation over longer timescales have suggested additional centennial- to millennial-scale variations in the phase of the oscillation, but often with conflicting results2. Here we assess patterns of sea-ice drift in the Arctic Ocean over the past 8,000 years by geochemically determining the source of ice-rafted iron grains in a sediment core off the coast of Alaska. We identify pulses of sediment carried by sea ice from the Kara Sea3, which can reach the coast of Alaska only during a strongly positive Arctic Oscillation4, 5. On the basis of these observations, we construct a record of the Arctic Oscillation phase, and identify a 1,500-year periodicity similar to that found in Holocene records of ice-rafted debris6, 7 in the North Atlantic, distinct from a 1,000-year cycle that has been found in total solar irradiance8. We conclude that the 1,500-year cycle in the Arctic Oscillation arises from either internal variability of the climate system or as an indirect response to low-latitude solar forcing."
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v5/n12/abs/ngeo1629.html

The planet has cycles that are longer than our lifetimes or memories, Ed.

Condemning Billions to their CO2 ends is a WAR CRIME for history

Deny this:
Climate change is a 27 year old "could be" crisis because not one single UN warning has ever said it “will be” a crisis, only “might be” and “could be”. If “maybe” is a good enough reason to condemn your own kids……
Science says comet hits “will” happen and are imminent and eventual and inevitable yet they have NEVER said climate change was. Only “could be”. One would have to WANT this misery to true.
ClimateReeferMadnessChange

Are you guys suggesting is

Are you guys suggesting is that everything is OK with the present, criminal economic system, and our banks are most welcome to pump out endless amounts of imaginary capital, to licence more and more colonization and destruction, now surrounding us?

We know all about the Ice age etc. happening in thousands of years circles, but not in 30-40 years, within the lifetimes of most people still alive.

A top line scientist friend of mine has been in Japan in Jan, then a few weeks ago in Inchon South Korea and right now in China, then going to Germany to and on various conferences called by governments getting really worried about climate change, including the US by now, while the usual faithful come on the Tyee every time the question comes up. reassuring us that everything is OK, it is business as usual.

Please answer one question: Do you people live in cities or out in the country ?

The communists were the worst polluters in all countries they've occupied, now their idiot twin capitalists are doing the same. Always in the interests of the same ruling 1%

We have a huge, most interesting looking boulder in the middle of our forest, that, according to the experts, came down from somewhere on the top if the ice during the Ice Age. But not within the last century.

Is there some kind of a "climate change deniers club" with members instructed to come on the line every time the question comes up, endangering "wealth creation"?

Ed Deak.

Ed, you don't have a scientific leg to stand on,

so you resort to ad hominem attacks and the tall tales told by friends in high places who go around the world at(our)great expense and who don't want the gravy train to stop.

The climate has always changed and if you want to look at possible human intervention, look at HAARP, which can change the normal pattern of the jet streams and read up the ongoing geo-engineering program called Operation Cloverleaf.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/WOR406A.html

http://www.stopsprayingcalifornia.com/Operation_Cloverleaf.php

http://chemtrailsinourskies.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/chemtrail-aircraft-mechanic-speaks-video/

I'm a private person and belong to no clubs. I just don't like being scammed by phony scienctists a creepy politicians.

Here is real "Man-made Climate Change

Weather Warfare: Beware the US Military’s Experiments with Climatic Warfare
‘Climatic warfare’ has been excluded from the agenda on climate change.“HAARP is a weapon of mass destruction, capable of destabilising agricultural and ecological systems globally.”

“‘Climatic warfare’ potentially threatens the future of humanity, but has casually been excluded from the reports for which the IPCC received the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/weather-warfare-beware-the-us-military-s-experiments-with-climatic-warfare/7561

Got a "smart-meter" yet Ed, another weapon of mass destruction brought to you as a result of the creeps who have lied to us about climate?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL75F2B26709CDBDA0

NIck... The climate has

NIck... The climate has always been changing, but not in such short periods, which suggests some serious causes.

The same way as the cancer rate was about 2% and no kids had cancers, no kids died in my childhood, under the worst depression and war conditions, now we have a 40% overall cancer rate and hospitals are full of little bald headed kids.

Tests show dozens of poisons in the blood of all of us. To say that this incredible pollution doesn't effect the environment is very shortsighted.

What you never say is what you get out of these denials? Wouldn't it be wiser to keep and open mind ?

I can't see any point in continuing this useless debate any more. I have to write an article on the fraud of neoclassical monetary economics, enslaving and killing people .

Have a good one, cheers, Ed.

Yes it has!

"NIck... The climate has always been changing, but not in such short periods, which suggests some serious causes."

It was warm through 1920-1940 and it was cold from 1941-1979 and then it got warm again until 1998. The Pacific Decadal Oscillation and the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation are the cycles most involved in the +-30 year changes.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/09/30/amopdo-temperature-variation-one-graph-says-it-all/

The same people who are running the "neoclassical monetary economics" fraud expect to profit from the climate caper.

"The government of Canada pledged $1.2 billion over three years for Fast Start, disbursing all but $183 million so far. No plans beyond this fiscal year have been announced"
http://www.oxfam.ca/news-and-publications/news/climate-fiscal-cliff-looms-for-developing-countries

The IMF/World Bank runs the "Green Climate Fund". Are you comfortable with that? Why aren't you writing about it?
http://www.brettonwoodsproject.org/art-567581

Nick....As far I'm concerned,

Nick....As far I'm concerned, the WB, IMF, all Conservative Parties together with most university economics departments, and climate change deniers, are welcome to climb trees and stay there

Ed Deak.

How can you say that Ed?

It is the IMF which collects the money from you and me which goes to the World Bank which then funds all those wonderful "green projects".
the

The Conservatives have been proven to be just as profligate with our money as the Ontario Liberals have been, and the NDP would have to keep the carbon tax going in BC both for fiscal and ideological reasons.

So politicians of all stripes are agreed to collect all this money to save the planet from Man Made Catastrophic Global Warming, when satellite data confirms the Earth hasn't warmed in 17 years. Please don't tell me about your neck of the woods again, it is irrelevant, so are my memories of freezing my ass off in other places at other times.

How's that erudite paper on Economics According To Ed going, fella?

BTW, I do hope the BCNDP will at least stop the double

Lib/Socred obscenity of collecting the carbon tax from schools, hospitals, municipalities and all Local Government facilities and then handing 60% of the overall carbon tax revenue out to corporations.

Just how naive are you Ed, that you can't see how we are being abused by the "Carbon" mafia.

Nick.... Of course, I'm super

Nick.... Of course, I'm super naive, born yesterday. After all, I've only lived under every known ideology in 4 countries, have 3 citizenships, the Brit government officially gave me citizenship and a new legal name, English was my 5th language, sentenced to death by the nazi military for high treason at 18, but the war ended before they managed to kill me, to the gulags by the communists as an "enemy of the people",but they didn't catch me.

I'm what's known as a Cambridge man, trained artist, trained in several trades with many trade articles in magazines, have the 1991 copyright of the only scientifically correct definition of economic efficiency, hundreds of articles large papers would never dare to publish, organic farmer and the most important, married very happily for 62 years.

And I can prove everything above.

Let's see what a climate change denier has to say in comparison.

Ed Deak.

Do tell!

I don't care what you claim as a personal life history, and a Facebook page doesn't count as a CV. It is irrelevant to the facts which are:
1 Temperatures are going down on average
http://www.c3headlines.com/modern-temperatures-chartsgraphs.html

2 More CO2 makes plants grow better.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/14/a-must-watch-greening-the-planet-dr-matt-ridley/

well well

another excellent and educational climate piece, thank you Tyee and author.

I suggest though, that since yet again the comments run 80% malicious spam due to the usual astroturfers etc. that comments on climate articles simply be disabled.

I would appreciate having actual discussion the knowledgeable and exploring new ideas, but I fear we are doing more harm than good here since the invariable presence of vandals may be turning people off to reading anything on the topic at all. No one wants to wage hip deep through sewage to sniff an intriguing flower.

The Tyee can still educate and make a positive contribution through simple publishing alone.

Oh, Really.

"Censorship -- the control of the information and ideas circulated within a society -- has been a hallmark of dictatorships throughout history. In the 20th Century, censorship was achieved through the examination of books, plays, films, television and radio programs, news reports, and other forms of communication for the purpose of altering or suppressing ideas found to be objectionable or offensive. The rationales for censorship have varied, with some censors targeting material deemed to be indecent or obscene; heretical or blasphemous; or seditious or treasonous. Thus, ideas have been suppressed under the guise of protecting three basic social institutions: the family, the church, and the state."
http://gilc.org/speech/osistudy/censorship/

Speaking of censorship, heard of Climategate 3.0 yet?

Update4: An email showing some insight on the beginning of the use of the word “denier” along with some demonstrated coziness with media activists.

Update5: Mike Mann rages and releases the attack dogs Monbiot, Romm, Media Matters and others in response to a perfectly valid and polite inquiry from the Wall Street Journal, suggesting a smear before the reporter even write the story.

Update6: From Junkscience.com, who spotted this exchange: Wigley accuses IPCC and lead authors of ‘dishonest presentations of model results’; Accuses Mann of deception; Mann admits
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/03/15/climategate-3-0-more-mike-mann-emails-hit-the-internet/

Got to catch everybody up before I get shut down.
Here's a good one:
“I remain committed to doing this with
you guys, and to explore applications to synthetic datasets with
manufactured biases/etc remains high priority.”

Interesting concept, "manufactured biases".
You don't suppose it means what it seems to mean? Perish the thought!

http://www.junkscience.com/ 2013/ 03/ 15/ climategate-3-0-mann-to-jones-circa-1998-happy-to-make-my-codes-data- etc-available-mann-to-mcintyre-circa-2005-get-lost/ -

yup

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcc4.12009/full

Boycott THETYEE and other fear mongers!

Why Former Climate Blame Believers Are Better Planet Lovers:
It's WHAT they "agree" on that is the issue as they have only agreed for 27 years that it "is real and happening" and only COULD be a climate crisis not WILL be a crisis. They have never said a crisis was as eventual as even a comet hit. They won't say it WiLL happen. The only consensus they have is to keep studying and it and that it still "might" be an actual crisis. The IPCC has never said it WILL be a crisis. Real planet lovers welcome the good news of exaggeration. You?
Find us one IPCC warning not swimming maybes. Help my planet is on fire maybe?

Hack, you are so funny!

After your rant about "malicious spam","vandals" and "wading hip deep through sewage", you post a reference to "Crude Comments and Concern: Online Incivility's Effect on Risk Perceptions of Emerging Technologies."

More info to make the Hack's day:

http:// www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294560/The-great-green-1-The-hard-proof-finally-shows-global-warming-forecasts-costing-billions-WRONG-along.html

more jelly

http://phys.org/news/2013-03-overfishing-small-species-jellyfish-curse.html

Global Warming Continues Apace

New Study: When You Account For The Oceans, Global Warming Continues Apace

http://preview.tinyurl.com/cxkzwmf

Looking forward to the counter-arguments this suggestion will spawn...