men s/b persona non grata here

Men have no business in this debate at all. I'm completely confident in the intellectual and spiritual capacity of Canadian women to shape this choice for themselves. A uterus should be a requirement to weigh in on this topic. Period.

We Need a Law

is funded by this gang who wants to inject Christianity into all levels of government.

http://arpacanada.ca/

Bountiful?

Is Mike Schouten originally from Bountiful, BC?

China

Sadly, I have to say, when I read about these religious fanatics and the hate-mongering they disseminate under the guise of "caring", I think perhaps the Chinese have it right; just outlaw the nonsense. It should be something that is practised in your own head anyway.

Hypocrisy

I will give you an example of the above subject. A close relative of mine, who became a US citizen, once had an abortion. Then she became a born-again Christian and because everything she had done before, every 'sin' committed was washed away, she no longer bore the stain of that event. She went on to picket abortion clinics, vote in G. Bush and vote for an illegal war where women and children were murdered in the name of freedom. She goes to church every Sunday, praises the Lord to the high heaven, then during the week uses and abuses people, justifies whatever act because she was born-anew. And I thought to myself, are these the people who stand on the political soapbox and decry a woman's right to choose? Whether in the US or Canada, they are still the same - holier than thou, condemning others who do not follow their narrow definition of how to lead a life. Jesus said, 'let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.' But I'd like to take this idea further and say, 'let he who judges wear the mantle of a girl/woman who is faced with an unhappy pregnancy, walk in her shoes several miles to know the guilt, the fear, the frustration, the judgment of others and then see if he condemns so easily.' Until that happens, never let a man get close to a voting booth where he can decide what a woman can do with her uterus.

The mind boggles.

It is rather odd that belief systems that were born in an age when the wheel was invented are used to make policy in this day and age. Maybe when the belief systems catch up to modern day critical thinking and science, we should listen to them. Till then some people are just dangerous. Just like the Taliban.

It's the same with the silly debate on stem- cell research. A fertilized egg with about 150 cells is deemed a life when the eye of a fly has about 150,000. We write-off all the medical benefits through stem-cell research because a few people still believe myths started 4,000 years ago and they still believe interpretations from writings, long after actual events were suppose to have taken place, that do not stand up to any rational thinking. We accept ideas from human interpretations of writings that were made when people believed the sun travelled around the earth. We draw irrational conclusions and apply them to science and these people not only walk among us we elect them to hold office. The mind boggles.

? , sine?

Your post could be taken to mean that female ignorant bigots WOULD have a right to oppress other women in the names of their various invisible sky fairies.

Surely this matter is of concern to all humans.

Freedom of choice

Women have great political power, they must use it. Number one vote at every election, federal, provincial,municipal and also at every organization they might belong to. Ask a point blank question: are you pro choice or not? If the candidate waffles at all, do not vote for him or her, ever. Antiabortionists can not be cured, they will never change their mind. So remember them and avoid them.

strange

These are the people who want to deregulate guns but want state control of a woman's uterus.

amazing

how many absolute arstles are obsessing on an organ they don't even have!
I've never had an abortion, never needed one. I try to be a peaceful person and I don't think violence is the real answer to anything. But if any of my family or close friends choose abortion, I would advise these and other arstles not to stand between them and the clinic because there will be one extremely angry old woman wielding a cane to clear the way!

These bigots are not pro life, they are anti woman. Many of them claim to be staunch Christians. Poor Christ, he must puke at times when he hears the drivel coming from people who claim to follow him.

These white male supremicists are walking advertisements for why the new law we need is one which will curtail their bigotry and hatred.

Just don't get in my way, son, grandma has a very short temper where arstles are concerned.

Amazing the perception

If I am pro choice I am labelled a murderer.

If I am not pro choice and ask for food and shelter for the same child, born later, I am then called a communist.

It is impossible to talk to people like Fonseca, Shouten, and Warawa. They simply spout the pabulum their respective religions provide.

Anyone who believes in a sky god isn’t intelligent enough to get on with their own life, so they spend all their time interfering with others and call it good works.

We all have to be saved from ourselves you see…

BC a Base for Abortion Battlers Trying New Tactics

I noticed the reporter did not ask Joyce Arthur of the Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada what her annual budget was. Might that be because she receives grant money from Ottawa to advance her agenda?
I do agree with her "The root problem, and the one we should oppose, is sexist preference for boy children. We support education programs to eliminate that prejudice and other initiatives to raise the status of women and girls in all communities." I call on her to join with those calling for a condemnation of the flagrant denial of human rights to pre-born women as a starting point in ending gender discrimination. Perhaps if we put our heads together we can put an end to the brutality of gang rape such as occurred in India which is all part and parcel of the same root problem she describes. I call on her to support Motion 408 and stop attributing ulterior motives to those she should be working with. Women have suffered enough and the time to work together is now.

After he discovers his wife is pregnant

a man should shut his mouth about the whole issue unless he fully agrees with everything she says. If she doesn't want the child she should not have to carry it to term. Men need to butt out of this discussion and leave it to the women (excluding Rona Ambrose, Real Canadian Women et cetera)to discuss the issue. There is nothing sadder than an unwanted child who has been brought into a family even though the mother may not have wanted it to be so.

forced birthers

I would support a woman's choice to abort because of the gender of the fetus -- because it's her (and perhaps her family's) choice to make. Every child should be wanted.

And it's just about impossible to determine someone's motive for making a decision; the last thing a woman needs at that juncture in her life is some third party who isn't her doctor interrogating her at 20 weeks as to why she wants to abort. There are so many things that could happen coincidentally around that critical time; for example,
she realizes her husband is abusive and wants to leave; their financial situation deterioates; another family member becomes ill and requires a lot of care.

Secondly, just because a woman is forced to bear a baby girl, doesn't mean the family will accept it. Female infanticide is unfortunate and prevalent in countries
where a boy is prized over the girl -- it would be far more merciful to let the woman abort early instead of bearing a baby that is killed as soon as it's born. Girl children may be neglected or uneducated. Families may be bigger than is financially tenable because the family keeps on having babies until they get a boy. And it's not like we can sit back and look down our noses from our first world socialist country. In some places, girls are considered financial liabilities because of the dowry. In some places, the boy will be a couple's retirement plan and their future daughter in law will be their old age caregiver; there is no such thing as retirement savings, pension plans, old age security or senior care homes. Punitive measures and forced birth will not change that -- it only prevents women from having the autonomy to control their bodies.

Forced birthers like Warawa couldn't give a rats ass about women or babies. If they did, they'd worry more about programs which provide prenatal care and support after the baby is born; like the program in BC that was recently cut which provided an in-home visit by a public health nurse to each and every new mother.

The religious conundrum.

These people claim to follow the teachings of a human being who lived some 2000 years ago. He never said a thing about abortions because no one had heard of such a thing back then. He never said when life really began or if it was at the moment of conception. He never wrote a word himself but all of the writings were written decades after he lived by people other than the 12 who were named as his followers. Only one of the books might, I repeat might, have been written by a person who actually associated with him. All the rest are interpretations by individuals who has an agenda and mixed it with stuff from the Torah and ancient Jewish writings.

Now these folks today select stuff that suits their agenda. They ignore stuff like you can kill your neighbour if he cuts his lawn on a Sunday or you can stone a person who commits adultery - the laws of the land don't allow it - but they think they have the right to impose their narrow views on the rest of us because they interpret, I repeat interpret, writings that are so vague as to allow them to feel superior doing it.

It boggles the mind that people like Warwara and Schouten think this is what followers of His teachings should do.

White Dudes need to just stop

"Pre Born Women"? Okay seriously, these people have some severe brain damage. Also, I am really sick of religious fanatics trying to impose christian sharia on secular laws. These misogynists should get no say. Also, has anyone else noticed that it's ALWAYS white straight dudes who are the misogynist anti choice Canadians?
Also, no such thing as an "abortion industry" just like there is no such thing as a "Prostate exam industry" THEY ARE MEDICAL PROCEDURES FFS.

Say what?

@ Sine Nomine:
I fully support women who are pro choice and fully support the rights of women to make that choice. So where does that leave me? Am I to sit back and simply watch these evangelical Christian zealots insult and physically harm women like yourself? Methinks you're rather narrowing the field of support.

Church and state

IMO, the separation of Church and State is the one rule of law that keeps Canada from descending into chaos and anarchy. These evangelical Christian wackos were up to no good 500 years ago and burned many a woman at the stake for just the kind of debate that's going on right now. We need to stand up to this kind of tyranny and the covert infiltration of our democratic institutions.

Justice to be fought for, but zealots will always bait & harp on

The inviolate sanctity of the body has a parallel in legitimate sovereignty.

Many religious groups, like ARPA, seem confused about the latter, and so pretend that rights violate their personal connection with a higher authority, and then act to project that confusion, as a moral issue, onto others, even to the point of violence.

I suggest they scamper off to a country which doesn't hold the rights of pluralism and diversity. They may find themselves, like Tibetans, or at an earlier time in history, like Luther or Galileo, suffering persecution of their conscience, and taking quite extreme actions to change their surroundings, and appealing to laws and authority of human rights they otherwise pretend to eschew.

Depending on how violently they project their superimpositions, such acts are a crime (as are the many recent Tibetan self-immolations) But, in the spirit of civil tolerance Canada practices, expression is a right, limited by the harm of hatred.
On that note, it does seem quite absurd to grant churches tax free status, given the limited scope of public good they express, and given that they marshal to positively subvert some of the agreed public goods Canada endeavors to provide equally to all, like health services, like contraception and abortion.

The crimes and collusion meted out to First Nations at religious schools is related, but is of its own merit and focus of violence.

So, given legitimate rights are a good, should access to public goods be outlawed to certain kinds citizens who don't meet dignity requirements? Do we segregate access to paved roads? No. So, it is analogously quite unequal not to have safe abortions available to some locales.

The 'wealth management model' of leadership is morphing civil life into pernicious forms of 'have' and 'have nots' types of exclusion. It is amorally ironic that Christians whose model maker threw 'the money changers out', so that money dominating values not subvert public sanctity, are now harping against universal health care provisions.

That the question of the beginning of life is infinitesimally questionable is to our grace as question posing beings. That health service providers no longer disclose the sex, if discovered in early weeks by ultra-sound, seems a reasonable step against sex selective abortions.
The inviolability of the mother's body leaves to her choice what provisions of health care provisions she chooses.

There are so many forms of violence which deserve legitimate critique: Harper's 2012 denial of health services to those awaiting refugee status; Harper's 2011 legalization of torture generated 'information'; the diminishment of 'rape' for 'sexual assault' in word of law; even supports for woman of sexual predation abroad, like former Canadian religious pastorals in Bolivia http://www.canadianmennonite.org/articles/bolivian-mennonite-rape-trial-ends-convictions

talon --if women do not want

talon --if women do not want a pregnancy, do not have unprotected sex. I am not religious and i can state that an abortion kills a future human being. As a male i think killing is wrong however is is done.