The candidates don't have to

The candidates don't have to attack each other when they have so many things the Liberals have done to remind us about. Yes Horgan has a temper. I emailed the guy about a stupid statement he made on Voice of BC calling the Tsawassen getting Agriculteral Land with no conditions as sort of a long term lease. The NDP Policy is quite clear and he was quite wrong. His response was that he was so busy so he wouldn't be continuing the discussion. I don't want that clown to represent the people of BC. He says things just to show he is , in his view intelligent. after ten years on the treaty trail and over 75 main table negotiations as an observer ,I know he was wrong and I was right on the subject. I get to vote and believe me he is at the bottom of my list of potential leaders of the party. Sorry warbler, you are backing a dog that won't hunt( to coin a old phrase)

This article tells us almost nothing

I'm getting ready to vote for the first time as a new Canadian citizen, and I'm hoping that this will include an opportunity to throw out the laughingly-named BC Liberals by year's end. I was hoping this article would tell me something about actual policy differences between the candidates. Instead, we get blurbs about who's nice, who's hard-working, what they did a decade ago, etc.

For the past five years, every time I've heard Adrian Dix in the news, I've been very impressed and have said more than once that this is the person who ought to be leading the provincial NDP. There's nothing I've heard to change my mind. Instead of showing how he can be "liberal lite," in the way the US Democrats have strived to show themselves as "republican lite" to no avail in the US, he's continually staked out a real contrast.

But of course I'll be happy to support any of these contenders. I was hoping to find out where, especially, Farnsworth stands on the issues, since he seems to be headed for victory in the leadership race. Instead I get the kind of pap I'd expect to see in People Magazine. I'm disappointed.

Three Good Choices

Mike, Adrian and John are all three very good choices to lead the NDP into the next election. Polls indicate the Mike is leading and I don't think he is a lazy person, in fact I don't think any of the candidates are lazy or the like.Sadly though even the leading candidate is behind Ms Clark in the current polls but as with any poll we all know that this is just a snapshot in time and nothing more. Bottom line is that BC needs a change in government and I think that the NDP can give us all that change.

More pablum

I agree with "immigrant" this article sucks!
So Farnworth is electable?
The media is waiting / hoping he does get elected, and then they will on the sly mention (constantly) that he lives with a male partner!
There is enough bias in this province that Farnworth could loose the "real election" because he happens to be gay!

That leaves the choice between Horgy and Dix.
Thinking back the last few years, we have seen Dix on the TV more often than James and certainly much more than Horgy!

Do we need another "nice" leader? Was that not James's main platform?

I'd say we need someone who has the guts to speak forcefully and that can only mean Dix!

All 3 of them have their

All 3 of them have their good points and bad points, but collectively they are something to behold; just too bad that they couldn't all be the leader together.

What separates....

The amount of hair each has?

Frankly, until the next provincial election campaign; I'll look at the NDP platform then.

Compare them to the Liberals

I'm glad we have Dix, Horgan and Farnworth, they look a zillion times more competent than the lousy choices the Libs had between Clark, Falcon and de Jong.

Dix would make mincemeat out of Clark in a debate but I'm not sure that would be enough to win an election. Carole James beat Campbell in every debate too and that didn't translate to victory.

I like Farnworth for many of the same reasons I liked James.

Well, let's see..............

AND REMEMBER PUBLIC PERCEPTION IS "TRUTH"

-Adrian Dix.... already tainted with a membership scandal, has always been on TV looking like he's whining.

-Mike Farnworth..... good guy, nice guy, maybe "too nice" to be a strong leader? Already received "The Kiss of Death", the endorsement of Jenny Kwan, and DID NOT have the strength of character to tell Kwan to go pound sand.

-John Horgan........ good guy also, comes across as strong, clear-minded. Has experience in the rough and tumble of Ottawa politics. Downside: virtually unknown, upside: NOT from the Lower Mainland.

But then, the balance of power in the NDP membership is in the Lower Mainland, isn't it? And when have they EVER made decisions with the analytical powers that God gave them?

Adrian is my choice

Over the past 5 years Adrian toured rual areas of BC. He was talking with people about the impact on them due to changes in medical services. In many cases the impact has been horrfic.

I would be pleased to see Adrain as leader. He gets out there with the messages the public needs to hear.

Simply put, Mike Farnworth

Simply put, Mike Farnworth is the BCNDP's best chance to win against Christy Clark. Horgan and Dix have their strong points, but Farnworth brings the strongest reputation to the table and it's that reputation, that will get him elected.

I can stand behind a lot of what Dix has to say, but the reality is that the Liberals, with a centrist candidate, will blow a far left NDP, lead by Dix out of the water.

What Separates Top Three BC NDP Leadership Candidates ?

Before the NDP can win any election, there must be a leader who can for a time enunciate our party's policies in a way that will be noticed, understood and remembered. Clearly, Mr. Passion has an ability to do this. Please, vote Dix.

Musing

Nope.

Yep.

I still recall, from a few months back, that 'senior NDP insiders' believed that it was all but a foregone conclusion that Dix has this one in ths bag based particularly upon party memberships, endorsements, etc.

same as James

Frank is right, "Carole James beat Campbell in every debate too and that didn't translate to victory."....the problem is that it just didn't seem like she won (I agree she did).... so many of the viewers (in particular the non-voting ones and the non NDP ones)were left feeling less than inspired..... somehow the sense of presence just wasn't there. I also "like Farnworth for many of the same reasons I liked James"....but James didn't get elected. Horgan will get a lot more publicity should he win the leadership, so no worries there. That publicity will translate to a very positive view of the NDP as being truly capable of forming good government. Both Horgan and Dix will be able to take on Christy, but it is Horgan that will appeal to a wider range of voters..and forge that appeal into strong support. Horgan will get the general population to become more interested in the issues, including those who did not vote at all last time....he won't scare the pants off anyone. Dix said it best "people who don't see what separates the candidates need to pay closer attention". Agreed they will make a good team together...but when Arnold comes to BC, my preference (of anyone in any party in present day BC politics) is to have Horgan on the televised eye to eye.

Messing

Luke : "nope"

Yep.

Hands-down, going away. It would be a cakewalk. Dix can think on his feet, Christy can't. Dix is facts and stats, Christy is smiles and bluster.

By the end of the debate her face would be hurting from trying to keep that smile on it and the relief that it's over would be obvious.

Her people, including you, would then be out there immediately trying as hard as you can to spin her embarrassing defeat into a victory by claiming Dix was too hard on her, a bully.

Off-topic but of interest

Both the Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star in the last 2 days have published articles saying an analysis of StatsCan data shows corporate tax cuts have failed.

Corporations have not put the money back into their businesses, in fact investment in machinery and equipment has actually declined.

As for jobs, the biggest corporations socked away the money, the rate of jobs created actually was less than the rate of economic growth.

From the TO Star : "The study concludes: “The bargain that Canadian governments made to provide Canada’s largest companies with massive tax breaks in return for the promise of jobs and prosperity has not materialized.”

Canada needs to tax corporate profits at a rate competitive with other countries. But we need to strike a balance at a time when the federal deficit tops $40 billion and other priorities cry out for attention. The latest evidence makes the Conservative argument for even lower corporate taxes less persuasive than ever."

Nothing in return for Canadians in spite of a rate drop from 28% to 16.5%.

sadly...

In the context of the article, you are off-topic Frank. I guess I understand the point of the piece...but who gives a shit? The issue of providing jobs and healthy communities and the policies that will bring us to that place are the only things that should be of interest to voters...

Wait, I think the voters actually get that, you know? It seems to be only politicians who think that 'beating Christy Clark' is a sufficient reason for their existence.

Keep Reading Frank

I just now read a couple of other articles refuting the "selected" statistics from StatsCan. Even on from "The Star's own website.

Will the NDP reform worker's comp rules re disability claims?

I have just one question for NDP candidates -

What's your strategy to reform/update draconian workers' comp rules that give the B.C. Labor Relations Board (LRB) way-y-y-y too much discretion to reject medical evidence by a highly-qualified expert, whose report states clearly that the worker is permanently disabled and unable to work?

I'm very concerned that in too many long-term disability cases involving hard-to-diagnose chronic illness, solid claims are rejected, forcing sick and injured workers onto the public rolls - and we all know or we should that B.C.'s disability benefits scheme is woefully inadequate.

Who exactly profits from these regressive decisions?

How does the NDP plan to level the playing field?

Shouldn't union reps be required by law to explain to workers FULLY whether and how they will be able to access the benefits to which they contribute so that if workers dislike the arrangement they are free to decline membership and make their own insurance arrangements?

Or does the NDP favor this crypto-fascist method of creating a new, mostly invisible blue underclass?

Just curious.

The Prophet

Although I'm not a Dix guy, there's no way the Liberals will want to run a campaign on ethics.

Sure, Dix has a memo history, but it didn't cost the province $6 million, nor did it cost a railway.

If the Liberals want to go after the memo then I'm sure Dix would be happy to go after Christy's ex-husband and brother and all of Alex Tsukamanis' memos about Christy.

Why give them...

Why give them the opportunity?

That`s what you are missing...The Gay issue will cost Farnworth 10% of the vote.

Dix makes people respond one of two ways..Love him or hate him...And then there`s his baggage...Frank, what Dix did was thought out deliberate fraud, Dix buckled under pressure aqnd lied, falsified documents, why even take the chance>

Horgan charms the socks off of people, on both sides...

Vote with your brains not with your heart, or in DP`s case, don`t be a groupee voter(that being a Teileman groupee)

And yes Frank, any of the NDP candidates would do better than Liberals, including Dana Larsen.

Let`s think about the bigger prize, winning over the electorate.

And huff and puff all you want, nobody knows any of the NDPers, their not paying attention, 70% of the people Ipsos has polled don`t know any of the NDPers...

Forget Ipsos, big media wants the Gay Guy/Family values battle....

If you can`t figure that one out...Next thing you`ll be saying that Baldrey and Palmer are honest and Daryll Bricker and Evi Mustel tell the truth.

Wake up people..Vote for no dirt or garbage candidate...Go Horgan Go

Adrian Dix For BC

People, the NDP stands for:

Principle and ethics.

Social Justice.

Economic Justice.

Co-operative decision making.

The only candidate that represents these NDP values in this race is Adrian Dix.

The others such as Farnworth and Horgan are just from the wishy washy middle who will change their tune as the wind blows.

If you want that then you might as well vote Liberal - no principles, no ethics - opportunists who only serve their corporate masters.

cboo44

By the way, in BC Campbell slashed corporate taxes and our unemployment increased.

As for government revenue, well, here's what Will McMartin said about what happened over a decade : "corporate-income tax revenues dropped from just over $1 billion to $847 million".

Not a study, just facts.

Frank is right

The whole issue of ethics is not a Christy strong suit. A memo compared to a railroad and a $6 million dollar payout and a refusal to hold a public Inquiry into the affair, the memo pales by comparison into nothing. My guess is that it will be between Dix and Horgan and either one will run circles around Christy Clark.

As for the Prophet, I think he forgetting that any negative campaign or attack ads can be turned on Christy Campbell very easily. When Dix lays out policy it is clear and there is no blurred line between him and a conservative pretending to be liberal.

What a choice!

Five really wonderful people! So impressive at the environmental debate on April 2. Polished performers. Which of the "big three" to choose? Still not sure, but like the Mr. Popularity, Mr. Passion and Mr. Results labeling, kind of good characterizations. Any should appeal to die-hard ndper's, but who will be most appealing to the general public, at least those who are not die-hard liberals?

Horgan

I had never heard of Horgan a few weeks ago, but I've looked at all the candidates and attended one of the debates, and Horgan blew me away. He's a captivating public speaker, he understands the issues and can explain them well, and his strategy for winning involves giving BC a positive vision, not attacking Christy Clark.

All 5 candidates are impressive, but Horgan stands out from the bunch.

Skywalker

Negative ads can be turned around?..Hmmm, very interesting, however you forget one thing, it`s the media that defines what a negative attack ad is..

And BC Media you are free to lie about the 90s and call people social engineers and tax n spend Democrats and..

And the media gives them a free ride, the truth isn`t negative...Look at the howling over the Christy Crunch ad..The media branded it as an negative attack ad..

When is reminding people about the past an attack ad..

You will find that BC`s media will call every NDP ad an attack ad where as the BC Liberals ads will be called informative.

And then there is the business lobby, phil Hocstein and every other paid shill.

The NDP have to attack Campbell and the Liberal`s brutal record...How do you attack the record without it being called a negative attack ad..

One has to assume the campaign will be the dirtiest fight in BC History...Cluck cluck will be fighting independents, John Cummins, the NDP, schools, hospitals, nurses and doctors, seniors...

The campaign will be very dirty...BC Liberal motto.."We only cheat when we can`t win"

And again Skywalker...BC`s media won`t mention BC Rail, or ferries, or contracts, or IPPs, or senior abuse..The media will be talking Gold medals and logs to China ..

And your right, Dix`s memo-gate doesn`t compare to BC Rail, election fraud, drunk driving, shredded contracts, BC Hydro bankrupt...Your right, Dix`s memo doesn`t compare to that...

It`s 10 times worse according to Balderdash and Pawn Palmer and BC`s media..

Never forget what the media has in mind for Farnworth and Dix

Highest Coin In the Realm

The highest coin in the realm, to date, is the Tuesday's Ipsos poll with a 700 sample size.

Positice/Negative Impressions Among General Public:

Farnworth: +22
Horgan: +3
Dix: -6

http://www.ipsos-na.com/images/news-polls/media/5184-2lg.png

Best Premier:

Clark: 38% v. Farnworth: 32% (-6%)
Clark: 41% v. Horgan: 22% (-19%)
Clark: 44% v. Dix: 25% (-19%)

http://www.ipsos-na.com/images/news-polls/media/5184-7lg.png

It's not rocket science stuff trying to figure out which NDP candidate would be most competitive against Christy Clark and the Libs.

Well Bradley

It`s a good thing Horgan has won every debate in every town and he`s growing by leaps and bounds among the party faithful.

MR. Bricker`s polls are bunk...Considering Bricker said yesterday on the Bill Good show that 70% of everyone they phone don`t know who any of them are...

So Ipsos poll is creating results, not recording results.

Perhaps Ipsos should try phoning NDP leadership voters only...

Only then will you get the number...

Adios Dix...Adios Farnworth..Adios Cluck Cluck...

Adios Bradley Z

That coin is made out of cardboard.

Horgan is an unknown quantity outside of the NDP.

Just like Iggy's numbers are rising nationally as people get to see him more Horgan's numbers could easily do the same.

What If?

Any NDPers who have attended any of the debates will realize that there is a lot of bench strength in the candidates. I understand Dix has committed to supporting any of the others should he be unsuccessful. As should they all!
Considering the recent leadership coup debacle, there is a real possibility that the voters may be reluctant to place their trust in the NDP. Was it the very week after James got her 84% support vote that the dissidents said essentially "So what?"
So - I'm curious as to which potential leader is seen as most capable of 'cleaning up' the provincial NDP.
PS Will the successful candidate be required to get at least 84%?

Safety First

Dix - NDP Heavy
Horgan - NDP Centre
Farnworth - NDP Lite

John Horgan

Nicholas Simons has just left the NDP leadership race...He has thrown his support behind John Horgan..

Bravo

Vote for the best garbage/dirt free candidate..

There is only one..The Honourable John Horgan.

The name even sounds premieresque

We place Mike Farnsworth as

We place Mike Farnsworth as our second choice. We get to vote for the leader and most certainly will vote. In the real world I find it downright insulting to drag up the well known fact that Mike has a male partner. Most families have gay members as part of the family. Being gay has nothing to do with political ability and by God, Mike is certainly a capable sharp politician. It's just that we prefer Adrian Dix to lead. Mike will make an excellent AG. Lets talk about ability not sexual preferences.

Strategic?

A bit of a spin on typical strategic voting:
Which NDP candidate would be the most effective as leader of the opposition?

Just remember..

...the percent of the public who still listen to what the MSM and the likes of Palmer have to say is very small indeed. The message has to be the right mix of "what you will do and what the other guys did" and it has to be delivered is style preferable a bit of humor. It will work regardless of who leads the NDP.

R/man's response above ..

...makes it pretty clear that the BC Liberals would like a centrist. That way they have nothing to fear even if Christy loses. The problem for everyone else not in the elite business camp is that nothing will change and nothing will improve.

Whatever Brad Z...

Veterans have now endorsed Horgan...Dan Miller has endorsed and many many others...

Chug chug chug..Here comes the Horgan Express...despite your hopes of Adrian Dix Cool Hand Brad Z...

This race is wide open...except for Dix, he has fallen into third place...Ah, but what does Justine Hunter know...She#s on the BC Liberal band wagon..

I will put my faith in the results from HQ..

http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_central/albernivalleynews/news/119092814.html

Go Hogan Go!

Justine Hunter?

Would that be the person who wrote the utter nonsense about the government's forgiveness of the Basi Virk legal debt?

Only Horgan Can Win

I would be happy with any of the three, but Horgan has the best chance to win a provincial election, by far. He's got populist appeal and is great with the media. Please, not another decade with an unelectable candidate!

Best man for the

Best man for the job.....JOHN HORGAN.

GO HORGAN GO!

Jonestown Massacre

I guess the NDP candidates had no other choice than to sing "kumbaya" together and confine themselves to speaking about positive differences. After all the party has already self-immolated itself by back stabbing Carole James. It's desperately needs to present itself as a viable, sensible governing party.

Ironically, they knifed James because she was too centrist so it seems ironic if a centrist candidate could lead the NDP. The NDP socialist dinosaurs should ideally want a fire and brimstone brethren like Adrian Dix to lead them and change society. That's the paradox with the BC NDP: they don't want to adapt, they want voters to change their way. And that is less likely to happen than ever before because BC is a more conservative place than ever.

Yet, the hard left and Adrian Dix feel that if they can fan the eternal flames of class animosity, voters will come out in droves to support socialist nirvana. Certainly the polls don't show this, but in BC politics who knows? Maybe the BC people, like Ontario, are in a mood to drink the koolaid and suffer a rerun of the Glen Clark years.

As much as I admire Dix's commitment, intelligence and skill, he is simply too much of a zealot and would be a dangerous premier. His baggage from memogate is far too weighty and damning. And his recent vote stuffing exercise only reinforces his reputation as someone who can't help but to play hardball all the time. You have to unite the province as premier, not seek and destroy enemies at every turn and win at all costs. Dix personifies this.

Maybe the other candidates aren't so centrist, but if the NDP remains in opposition, BC is best served if they can be part of the mainstream dialogue rather than the left wing screeching in the wilderness.

Horgan

Went to see him at the Railway Club.

Good pick of venue.

His wife is a serious asset; very nice lady and folksy.It would be a very good 'look' to have her campaigning beside him.

He has his act together big time.

So he doesn't ' gladly suffer fools',

neither do I; fools spin your wheels.

Farnworth does have that problem, even though some NDP politically correct folks will tell you differently.

I think if you want to win the election, and I sure do, then Horgan is the best choice of the three...

Whomever is leader; I will

Whomever is leader; I will be voting NDP

Dana Larsen...

Dana Larsen on the CKNW NDP leaders debate said he is supporting John Horgan and urged all his supporters to make John Horgan their second choice.

Cheers

Issue or personalities

In my view, ethics, accountability and transparency are paramount issues. BC Liberals have failed badly on those matters, and they allowed and allow unchecked private interests to take precedence over public.

We are left with mounting income and wealth disparities among citizens and pending disasters in BC Hydro finances, growing environmental problems in the northeast gas fields and elsewhere, declines in value added forestry and slashed income and sales tax contributions from the corporate sector and government centralized in the Premier's office. Even worse, much of the population has become disconnected from government by and for the elites. Trust in politicians is low, trust in the political system is lacking.

Based on promises that each will address these issues in practical ways, either of the three main candidates in the NDP race would be a major improvement over the province's leadership in the last decade.

The dreamers in the NDP fringes who are more comfortable swimming against the flow, who think appealing to the majority of citizens is unprincipled, need to be managed and told to make choices. Once the party chooses new leadership and new direction, every member must pull in the same direction or go elsewhere. A new leader should provide free opportunity for legitimate debate but, after the policy is determined by members, that should be accepted by all.

As long as policy priorities come from the grass roots and individual constituency representatives are re-empowered, the NDP could make an unbreakable connection to the people of British Columbia. Right now, the government of BC connects only with the elites.

Can the NDP act in its own self interest?

If as one of the posters says, "ethics, accountability and transparency are paramount issues" then the NDP will have problems running Dix. His recent money for nomination applications scam is just too fresh and well documented. The last thing BC needs is for a Premier Dix to launch into a jihad against business and drive jobs and investment out of the province.

Don't forget that many homeowners in the lower mainland are carrying big mortgages and a Dix induced economic downturn would prove to be a disaster worse than the 90s - assuming any of you believe the 90s was a disaster. Dix is a smart guy, would be a great cabinet minister, but would be an utterly ruthless premier who would continue to eviscerate any and all perceived enemies after he assumed office. He probably doesn't understand that as premier, he the needs to move his policy to the center despite his party's inclinations.

Horgan is soft enough to combat Clark. Dix would simply charge at her head on and you will lose against a soccer mom. His policy wonk strengths will be lost in the image.

Most of the mud slinging will be confined to the NDP backroom in order to preserve the face of unity. Ironically, I guess they will end up choosing someone who won't be much different than Carole James. Unless they go with Dix which would speak volumes about the NDP hardilners' desire for party ideological purity. But, ironically, the NDP might have stood a better chance of winning by running James against Clark.

The road to social justice is often twisted.

DIX

What Canadians like is a person who shows determination, it is no coincidence that one weak Primeminister was called "Mr. Dithers" and dumped.

People hate Harper, but they do reluctantly admire his stubborn drive, as they loved Trudeau's posturing.

In that vein what the BC - NDP need is a leader like DIX!

A man who makes a forcefull statement and does not cave in under pressure!

A few questions:

Did the ominous picture painted here after James's resignation come true?

Did the NDP fall apart and disintegrate?

Did most of the women leave the provincial NDP?

Did women refuse to become new members of the NDP?

Did NDP membership decrease?

Or did it, in fact increase?

And by how much?

correction:

I should be clear.... by "painted 'here'" I don't mean by The Tyee....I mean by some of those who commented here in that regard.

Hi lynn

The answer to your question remains undecided.

For my own part, I honestly believe the party would be polling better today if Carole James were still the leader.

In fact, despite the clarion call for renewal from Jenny Kwan and Company [UNFAIR AND UNSUBSTANTIATED ALLEGATION REMOVED. -MODERATOR.] the likely new leader of the party after next weekend seems odds-on to be a member of caucus who DID NOT SUPPORT the move to dump James.

I can't see, with the possible exception of Adrian Dix (who is clearly more doctrinaire than James was), that the new leader is all that much different from the old one or thaty the party has gone through anything which might be termed 'renewal'.

And, if we accept Gary Mason's verdict in today's Globe, none of the front runners is polling close to the numbers that Ms Christina is getting at the moment...

As for your point about women: I'll let the evidence speak for me. There was NOT A SINGLE FEMALE candidate willing to put her name forward in the leadership contest.

Surely the way Carole James was treated cannot fail to connect to that fact.

As for the membership numbers thing - who knows?

For my own part, I took out a membership last December for the first time in more than 20 years - it certainly wasn't because I thought the actions of the wrecking crew were a positive move for the party I have always supported.

In fact, as I've plainly stated here since last fall, quite the contrary.

I do hope, despite recent events, that the desire of a majority of British Columbians for a better future for ALL citizens (and not simply a privileged few) will bring down the BC Liberal government whomever leads the New Democratic Party in the next election.

I also suspect that, even if this does happen, that I won't be thanking Jenny Kwan for that result.

Cheers

G West

I understand that we have differing views in regard to the thirteen MLA's, and especially to Jenny, whom I like immensely. I responded mainly because of your choice of the word 'idiots' to describe those who thought James should call a leadership convention instead of crowning herself as leader going forward in the next election.

None of those MLA's are idiots. While they were being discounted daily, The Tyee researched their histories and published an article that revealed thirteen people of high accomplishment as well as years of public service both inside and outside of the NDP.

Just my opinion, but I don't think there ever was some sort of conspiracy against James, only a significant number of MLA's that were giving voice to their constituents' growing feeling that the provincial NDP leadership was ineffective, non-inspiring, and unwilling to bring their concerns and message forward in a way that would engage the public.

Why else would they take that risk? If their constituents had been giving them glowing feedback about Ms. James, it would be suicidal on their part, especially if they planned to run in the next election. This was either a choice of personal conviction and worth the risk, or they were giving voice to what they were hearing from their constituents locally.

They are not the group of radical rabble-rousers they were made out to be. I wish, in fact, they had been more willing to take on the status quo... but that's just me. I do, however, think they deserve commendation for speaking up, instead of condemnation. We obviously disagree on this.

That they are supporting different candidates, shows there is no destructive agenda at work here, only a shared view over the unimpressive leadership of Carole James. It seems healthy and democratic to me that they are each supporting their own choice for leader.

I'm not sure you could characterize those who stayed on as James loyalists - for some, perhaps, this was true...for others, not so much and for not so noble reasons, they preferred not to rock the boat.

As to the lack of female candidates for leader, certainly Jenny Kwan, Lana Popham, Katrine Conway, and Claire Trevena (all women MLA's who spoke out against James) and were vilified and discounted for doing so - that experience, too, reflects how women are treated when they speak out against the status quo, against the power of the leader, and that, too must have its impact on women.

(contd. from above)

My information is that the NDP membership under James was around 10,000 - 13,000 members.

It is now at 28,500 members, after an extremely short membership registration period.

I think that large increase reflects those who have been waiting for the NDP to both listen to their concerns and represent the outrage they are feeling at the loss of the social safety net, the decimation of human rights, the destruction of our environment and the garage sale sell-out of of our province through BC Liberal privatization policy. The increase in membership is precisely because there are many people hoping that the NDP will return forcefully to its social democratic roots and that, hopefully, the insular party backroom will no longer hold sway.

We will have to wait and see.

The NDP's winning card has always been: "To thine own self be true."

Whether they have the courage to play it remains to be seen.

( My last word on this, I don't want to further interrupt this thread.)

I, too, hope for a future that is not further tainted by a BC Liberal pretend government.

lynn

I agree that words are important...but you used these words:

"....instead of crowning herself as leader going forward in the next election."

Which is a strange thing to say about a decision made by an elected party executive operating according to a set of clear rules.

I don't actually think that Jenny and her gang are idiots - but I do believe they behaved that way and that they acted in a fundamentally undemocratic way.

And, I also believe that the party and the future of the province would have been better served if there had been no change in leadership.

As for membership increases, I have no reason to believe that the usual blip in membership sales prior to a leadership event means any more to the NDP than it did to the BCLiberals.

And, I'm still troubled by the fact that there was not a SINGLE woman vying for the job...at the same time that the BCLiberals chose a woman as their leader.

All the polls I've seen indicate that more women are now supporting Ms Christina than supported Gordon Campbell...and that's a troubling change.

Apart from that, lets agree to disagree about that question and agree that, whoever the leader is after next weekend, the future of the province will be in poor hands UNLESS the BCLiberals are defeated.

As I said, I became a member again, after many years - largely because I was so upset with the way Carole James was treated by some members of the caucus.

I'll be there, trying to make sure that kind of thing NEVER happens again.
Cheers.

The Spiral of Political Death

Gwest and Lynn are hopefully trying to place the NDP on a new and winning trajectory, but there are a number of factors that trap the party and its ability to develop talent for this day and age in the 21st century.

Gwest: The "documentation" on Dix's over aggressive membership drive are images of his people stapling cash to applications. Even the party executive believes this happened and expressed its displeasure about it. Dix is simply a ruthless guy- great for internal party warfare and for the general election. But the biggest worry is that he won't know when the war is over and the governing must begin.

If the NDP nominates Dix then expect some of the most brutal, cringeworthy attack ads we've seen in generations that Dix cannot counter. Dix may have supported James- but only up to the point he looked the other way while others deposed her.

The very problem with the NDP is its philosophical struggle with "being true to thine self" and making the necessary compromises to build a platform and image that win elections. In the NDP's case it means dumping the union baggage, the hard left ideologues, the fusty rabble rousers and moving towards the middle. And oh yes, it is certainly more boring trying to occupy and triangulate the middle than throwing rocks from the fringes.

And that's why Carole James met her fate. She didn't fit the NDP rank and file's ideal image of their "Glen Clark" streetfighter. The irony is that for a party that values diversity, they certainly deposed of a woman leader in a very unceremonious fashion. When asked to choose between boring consensus building and open minded policy making versus old school, BC style socialist demagoguery you can always depend on the NDP to turn left and the political junction.

Whoever, and there must be a number, of NDP supporters who truly believe that "energizing" the party brethren is enough to win the election must have learned their campaigning at a religious cult. That they think the most BC people are NDP'ers at heart is a nice slogan, but they are going to have to show the voters.

Gwest, you may believe that "the future of the province will be in poor hands unless the BC Libs are defeated", but does the NDP have the ability to win the election. It's not a debate, it's an election campaign. Dix simply scares the hell out of people outside his of his supporters. Horgan and Farnsworth can acceptably bring the NDP back to the middle.

"DIX ONE" sounds better

This province is so hurting from liberal manipulations, that the only real solutions is an uprising!
However given the Lotusland scenario here could we at least elect a leader who will fight tooth and nail for us!
We have had enough "nice" from our sides, and been trodden on for our efforts to co-operate, so go for Glen Clark 2 if that is how you wish to call a Dix lead government!

BobbY Peru

Not exactly. Farnworth would bring the NDP back to the middle. But neither Dix nor Horgan. Both are left-wing blowhards.

Dix has disdain for the "mushy middle".

Horgan has repeatedly stated "The NDP does not need to move to the middle, but the middle needs to move to the NDP". (huh?)

The middle decides who forms gov't and with either Dix or Horgan at the NDP's helm, look for the Libs to win in October, 2011 and 2015.

Thereafter, if the NDP picks the "right" candidate for 2019, they will be competitive again.

Bobby - just for you

Contributions for Adrian Dix - total $93,515
Contributions for Dana Larsen - total $25,760
Contributions for John Horgan - $57,915
Contributions for Mike Farnworth - $46,249

Now, you can go and confirm those numbers for yourself - and take the time to learn who made the contributions too.

You'll notice there's even a donation of $500.00 for Dix from the most 'establishment' law firm in the province - I guess that's what you call hedging your bets.

Now, you show me how there was any funny business in these donations.

Please do a little research.

NDP Leadership Donations

Some curious donations:

Dix

1. Glen Clark (that figures)
2. Fasken Martineau (big law firm)
3. Westbank Projects (big development boys)
4. Tom Gunton (Remember him?)
5. Tim Hortons Ad & Promotion Fund (Hmmmm)

Horgan

1. Aelios Wind Power Corp (Another IPP)
2. Imperial Metals (Red Chris still mine needs approval)
3. Tim Hortons Promo Fund (Hmmmm)

Farnworth

1. Great Canadian Gaming (casinos)
2. Hastings Entertainment (casinos)
3. MacDonald Dettweiler (military apps.)
4. BC Maritme Employers Assoc. (Hmmmmm)
5. Earnscliffe (lobbyists)
6. Norvartis Pharmaceuticals Canada
7. Orangeville Raceway (casinos)
8. Tim Hortons Promotion Fund (Hmmmm)
9. Laughing Labortatories (beats me)

http://www.bcndp.ca/node/4139

Oh and as for

political contributions,lots of companies will give money to the Soclibs and the NDP.

Some of them will give a bunch of money to the Right and a token amount to the NDP.

The thing is, in my opinion, when a company give a lot of money to the Soclibs, they just could have some expectation of something coming their way in the future, because that's the way it has sometimes worked in the past.

Observation

The BC Liberal Party screwed up by choosing Christy Clark over George Abbott. In my opinion, this was a mistake when you consider that the Premier's chair has been occupied by someone from the lower mainland for far too long.

The BC NDP Party would greatly enhance its chances of becoming the next government if they choose John Horgan, the only contestant that isn't based in the shadows of the North Shore mountains.

The province cannot be held hostage to Howe Street, or whichever influences that emanate from the big smoke anymore.

I do live in the lower mainland, but feel that even though the majority of the population of BC is concentrated in the metro Vancouver area, the rest of the province is vital to the overall health of BC as a whole.

lynn

"My information is that the NDP membership under James was around 10,000 - 13,000 members.

It is now at 28,500 members, after an extremely short membership registration period."

Vaughn Palmer disagrees with you. How accurate do you think his figures are?

More to the point, how valid do you think the sign-ups are?

One thing I don't want to hear after next weekend is any bullshit from anybody who thinks their candidate got screwed. I don't care who wins, or how it happens - we stand together on the result, or the left is toast. No question.

lynn

Dumping James can be considered a success when the new leader has better poll numbers than she did. Until then words like "renewal" can be tossed around but they're meaningless. Leadership conventions always increase the members of any party, we'll see how many new Dippers (and Liberals) stick around when their current membership expires.

Anyway, I agree with zalm, whatever the outcome we stick together.

I like Dix best but would vote for Farnworth. However, Horgan is flying higher on my radar. He's a better candidate than I at first thought. I may switch.

@ Frank

Shane Simpson endorsed John Horgan this morning.

Cheers

Go Horgan Go

Premier John Horgan

His name even sounds premieresque!

http://www2.canada.com/albernivalleytimes/news/story.html?id=4a1f709c-d506-41d5-b2b2-f47c41fdcc6a

Chug chug chug...

Here comes the Horgan Express

Luke and Bobby

You guys never said a good word about Carole James the whole time she was leader of the BC NDP.

Suddenly you're fans.

Kinda like how you keep telling us Dan Miller is a centrist who has little in common with the majority of the NDP. But when his chief of staff (Horgan), whom he endorsed, runs for the leadership he's suddenly an extremist.

One of us may have the limited recall capacity of a goldfish, but it isn't me.

Worried

Dix and Horgan are eloquent, intelligent and way too angry for most voters. Farnsworth can score points and do so with a lighter touch that appeals to more voters. Dix is the favorite of every heavyweight union executive
member in the province and Horgan isn't far behind. That level of extremist world view just doesn't cut it for most BC residents who still remember Glen Clark's demise and eventual rebirth as a Pattison corporate sell-out.

Dix or Horgan - I'm Rooting For 'Em

Haha, you got that right. Enough has been said about Dix.

Now former NDP cabinet minister Gordon Wilson on Horgan (who has first hand knowledge):

------------------------------------------
"Horgan was a bombastic, somewhat ruthless and unprincipled backroom enforcer whose temper was only surpassed by his lack of diplomacy." "In politics there are those who are best described as “party hacks”,

"I can attest firsthand to the callous disregard for due process that was practiced by Horgan and his boss at that time."

http://gordonfdwilson.com/
------------------------------------------
And from Bill Tieleman, who worked with Horgan:

"Horgan can be hot-tempered,” political strategist Bill Tieleman said of Horgan in a 2007 profile that ran in Victoria-based Monday Magazine. "But as an elected official, it can be fatal.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/John+Horgan+enters+leadership+race/4088508/story.html#ixzz1JGCH6i00
------------------------------------------

If not Dix, then Go Horgan Go!!!!

Frank

Yep. Dan Miller is the Gary Doer of BC. Supports NE BC natural gas fracking, offshore oil and gas development, sits on BC Ferries Board of Directors, which supported the ferry out-sourcing to Germany, supports Site C dam, supported federal Liberal Dave Haggard in the 2004 election... etc.

As the former chief of staff to Miller, Horgan twisted his hand. Interesting to note that Miller has also stated "I don't believe in everything John stands for". Quite the endorsement. Everything that I listed above, which Miller supports, Horgan opposes.

And Horgan's documented left-wing spiel during his leadership campaign is akin to manna from heaven. He's considerably left of Carole James.

Again, I'll be very happy with either Dix or Horgan at the NDP helm.;)

Lukie

Doesn't really matter who wins the leadership - as long as the current sons of bitches are sent to pasture permanently.

You can't write a better ending than reducing the rump of Campbell's crew to, say, less than a dozen seats...I'll be supporting whomever can best deliver Ms Christina on a platter.

Luke

Dan Miller endorsed John Horgan. You can say he didn't, you can throw up unattributed quotes with no context, but the facts are the facts.

"Everything that I listed above, which Miller supports, Horgan opposes. "

We only have your word for that, I'll wait till Horgan or Miller say they disagree with each other on all policies if you don't mind.

"He's considerably left of Carole James."

And you hated her and called her an extremist.

"Again, I'll be very happy with either Dix or Horgan at the NDP helm.;)"

Not as happy as I am that Abbott lost and Christy won the Liberal leadership. As her public statements for the last decade attest, she's as right-wing as Campbell.

Here's some Christy quotes for ya

"I agree with Gordon Campbell"

"He's our leader"

"Teachers are the problem"

"Those jobs are gone"

"We're the government"

"There's no money for that"

Frank

Hehe.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_north/comoxvalleyrecord/news/119092814.html

BTW, beware of "false" Prophets. ;)

Frank

I know BC is a left-wing province.... ;)

But what's up with today's Nanos here in BC:

Con - 44.5%
Lib - 33.6%
NDP - 13%
Green - 8.5%

The federal NDP vote here in BC is completely collapsing.

http://www.nanosresearch.com/election2011/20110410-BallotE.pdf

Nanos in BC

Part of it is just fear of the Conservatives. The only unfortunate part is a lot of uninformed NDP voters switch to the Libs without realizing they're helping the Cons get elected because the NDP has a better chance in some ridings than the Liberals do.

And the second reason would be the Liberals are once again moving to the Left and lots of Leftees want to trust Ignatieff to carry through on his promises.

So I have no problem with that as I think everyone, not just Liberals like yourself, should move to the Left.

Your belated accreditation doesn't support you

I think that's pretty funny you didn't want to link to a Tom Fletcher column. Don't UBC students have a party game where they have to take a drink every time Tom says "godless socialists"?

From the article :

"Miller now serves a director of the B.C. Ferry Authority. He remains an NDP member, and when former leader Carole James stepped down in December, he called Horgan to urge him to run.

"John and I don't agree on everything," Miller said. "Quite frankly, he's much greener than I am.

"We may have disagreements on issues, but in terms of the overall person who's got the strengths and ability to lead the party, I think he's the right guy.""

Looks like your link doesn't support your analysis. Miller actually called Horgan and urged him to run for the leadership eh? You left that part out.

Federal polls in BC

I believe these are all the latest from each firm.

Forum Research
Libs 24
Cons 38
NDP 24
Grn 13

Ekos
Cons 38 to 35 to 34.6
Libs 24 to 27 to 26.1
NDP 20 to 17.5 to 20.2
Grn 14 to 16 to 15.1

Harris Decima
Cons 34
Libs 23
NDP 28
Grn 13

Nanos
Cons 48 to 39.3 to 44.5
Libs 24 to 29.6 to 33.6
NDP 22.5 to 24.7 to 13

Leger
Cons 40
Libs 19
NDP 28
Grn 12

Environics
Cons 37
Libs 27
NDP 26
Grn 9

Angus-Reid
Cons 42
Libs 21
NDP 28
Grn 8

Quebec polls are some of my favourite things

Angus Reid
Bloc 34
NDP 24
Cons 19
Libs 18
Grn 4

Environics
Bloc 34
NDP 21
Libs 18
Cons 17
Grn 8

Forum Research
Bloc 27
NDP 23
Libs 23
Cons 20

What do Cdn Libs, Baden-Wurtemburg and Britain have in common?

They're all moving to the Left.

Angus Reid poll out for Britain :

Labour 42
Con 31
Lib-Dem 11

Looks like a Labour majority.

Frank

Now you are really moving off-topic. OK, I'll play.

Baden-Württemberg had the following FPTP result:

CDU: 60 seats
Greens: 9 seats
SPD: 1 seat

Here's the colour-coded map:

http://www.election.de/img/maps/bw11e_2142.gif

Left you say? Well, since they don't use FPTP but MMP, the result is completely different:

CDU: 60 seats
Greens: 36 seats
SPD: 35
FPD: 7

A 71/67 Green led gov't, the first non conservative government since WW2 - mostly due to the fear of nuclear power arising out of the aftermath of Japan, the fallout from "Stuttgart 21", the FDP at the federal level, etc.

But, it won't take long for the Greens and SPD to fall back in the polls in this historically conservative state. It will go CDU or CDU/FDP in the next go around.

Luke

Polls are off topic? You brought them up.

If and when Baden-Wurt. shifts back to the Right, you can crow. But until then, its a shift to the Left.

Much like your own party. All the media, probably even Tom Fletcher have written articles on your Liberals moving to the Left.

Nice to see. I congratulate you guys for seeing the light and abandoning your failed right-wing policies.

Welcome to my side.

BC Needs a Credible Alternative to the Liberals

BC very much needs a clear and credible party besides the Liberals. Marginal and cosmetic policy reforms by the Liberals are enough to push back the NDP because voters don't want to take the chance on making the switch.

Indeed, the switching cost is high when you relate Dix as Glen Clark's former protege. Ironically, Clark was more appealing in the labour union hall, thug, revenge seeking way that even alienated many in the NDP. The NDP leftist diehards don't realize that the image of the romantic rebel is alluring in the union hall, but once you are premier you have to govern the entire province.

Sadly, Dix comes across as a hardened socialist who wants to redistribute income, exact revenge on the "rich" (whoever they are), evil corporations (whoever they are) and destroy all his enemies on his imaginary list of capitalist oppressors. Dix isn't a working class hero. Rather he is a policy wonk who loves to engage in full time intellectual and political combat. He isn't the right candidate for a party who says it wants to clean up dirty politics and restore dignity to government.

I can't understand why the NDP keeps declaring that the economy was fine during the Clark years. If you ask most people you will get a negative response. Merely throwing your statistics at everyone is like saying that during the Glen Clark years it was only raining while someone was pissing on your head. I think the NDP should confess to some terrible economic management and move to the centre with smart economic policies rather than trying to stage yet another workers' revolution and union love fest.

I just wonder how far to the center can an NDP candidate move before he or she stretches the trip wire and becomes the next party victim. Most NDP'ers dont' understand how much someone like Dix scares the hell out of your average BC voter who isn't a government union employee.

Bobby

"Merely throwing your statistics at everyone"

I love that line, I'm going to use it every time you post.

You prefer that people regurgitate what they're told by the corporate media instead of looking at the actual statistics from the era. I love it.

No doubt then you also hate the statistics from the last decade showing a declining median wage, falling economic growth, and a level of debt that no NDP government would ever have even imagined. Changing the accounting so that $70 billion in new debt not show up on the books, what a brilliant record.

Bobby and guystone

By the way, even the provincial and federal Liberals are moving to the Left. Kinda leaves you right-wing extremists without a home doesn't it?

You better start writing letters or Ignatieff and Clark will turn their parties into carbon copies of the NDP. Just tell them not to look at the statistics showing the stuff you advocate failed, that'll work I'm sure.