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How Smart Is 'Power Smart', BC Hydro's Try at Saving Energy?
Not very smart, says economist Mark Jaccard. But are we brave enough for California's far more successful approach?
Power hogs? Don't offer them rebates, says SFU's Jaccard. Jack up their rates, and mandate efficient appliances.
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Farmers Harvesting the Sun's Rays
Make conditions right, and renewable energy could become a profitable crop for food growers across Canada.
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BC Charts a 'Clean Tech' Future, but Is the Map Right?
Too many mega-projects, say some experts, who see big gains from lower-impact, local community projects.
-
Here Comes the 'Smart Grid' Way to Save Power
The US is investing billions in a wired feedback loop telling consumers how to be electricity misers. A BC firm is on the cutting edge.
I recently joined BC Hydro's Team Power Smart, joining the nearly 300,000 British Columbians who have signed up to date. Months of saturation marketing -- through TV, the Hydro Power Smart Olympic Village and pitches from ambassadors at scores of public events -- finally compelled me to take a closer look.
A personalized online analysis of my townhouse and hydro bill revealed what I've known all along: I'm a glutton for power and need to change. My family hot water tank is hemorrhaging energy, the crawlspace needs insulation, and my cursed electric baseboard heating will exact a horrible toll as utility rates rise by 50 per cent over the next five years.
By luring me to the Team, BC Hydro hopes to change my consumption habits: not only do they provide personalized information on how to conserve, they promise to pay me $75 if I can reduce my electrical consumption by 10 per cent in a year.
That $75 carrot is a tiny piece of the $30 million BC Hydro spent on its eight residential Power Smart programs in 2010, which collectively saved the utility an estimated 78 gigawatt hours (gWh) last year (see sidebar). This is a drop in the bucket when you consider that BC Hydro produced more than 50,000 gWh of electricity in 2009 (including independent production), and is counting on conservation and energy efficiency to account for 66 per cent of its incremental electricity needs by 2020.
So I approached Simon Fraser University environmental economist Mark Jaccard, a man who makes a living pondering such things. I asked him about all the residential customer-focused rebates and cash incentives -- including cash to scrap old fridges, buy energy efficient appliances and replace incandescent light bulbs.
Was the cost of all that, I asked, a smart investment in conservation?
Jaccard said my question was "coherent" but backwards. "If you have an objective like energy efficiency, why do you assume we have to spend money to achieve that? We should spend zero dollars. . . eliminate the Power Smart budget, and use electricity pricing and regulation instead."
The erosion of conservation benefits
When it comes to meeting our future electricity needs, BC Hydro has a few options: Increase system efficiency ("Resource Smart"), develop Site C, pay for new supply via long-term contracts, or invest in conservation. Conservation is cheapest, and so BC Hydro will continue to spend increasing amounts on demand side management (DSM) this decade. But the electricity you avoid using still costs money.
Jaccard is the co-author of an unpublished December 2010 study that investigated whether the money spent on Canadian utility "subsidies" (like a rebate to buy an efficient appliance) actually works, and he says the news is not good. "DSM expenditures by Canadian electric utilities have had only a marginal effect on electricity sales," the report concludes.
Yet residential rebate programs remain popular with politicians, utility executives and the public, Jaccard says, because they make us all feel good about conservation. The only problem is that our energy consumption keeps growing in spite of these measures, while utilities continue to oversell the benefits.
Most utilities can only infer the impact of this spending. This is because many of the people who actually use the rebates -- referred to as "free riders" -- are the same people who would buy the appliance in the absence of the rebate. "Free riders add to the utility cost of a subsidy program without contributing to its effectiveness," says Jaccard's report, which highlights a 2004 U.S. study that estimated an "overall free ridership rate of 50-90 percent," based on a consideration of all utility DSM programs in all sectors.
BC HYDRO'S POWER SMART
"Power Smart" is the umbrella term for all conservation activities at BC Hydro -- divided into commercial, industrial and residential "sectors" of focus. Power Smart is also synonymous with what policy wonks call "demand side management" or DSM -- which includes rate structures, building codes, standards and programs -- all the tools available to reduce customer demand for electricity.
In 2010, BC Hydro spent just under 100 million on its DSM programs, including about $30 million for residential Power Smart -- which consists of eight programs (e.g., lighting, fridge buy-back program, and "behaviour"). BC Hydro also reported spending $45 million and about $25 million for the commercial and industrial Power Smart sectors respectively.
To see more details of this 2010 break-down -- including BC Hydro's estimates of the incremental electricity savings by sector, see Table 1 of this BC Hydro document. (Source: BC Hydro's "Report on Demand-Side Management Activities for Fiscal 2010")
Then there is the "rebound effect" -- when the improved energy efficiency of a given appliance, technology, etc. reduces the cost of using that device to the point that it actually spurs greater energy use. So our lives are filled with increasingly energy-efficient devices, but we have many more of them, consuming ever-greater amounts of electricity.
Jaccard's prescription
Money would be better spent, says Jaccard, focusing our efforts on "radical rate design" and regulations that force manufacturers to build efficiency into their products.
BC Hydro has already moved to what are called Conservation Rates -- most of us now pay two separate prices for electricity -- a lower rate for a set period of time, followed by a second, more expensive rate that kicks in after a set period of consumption.
Jaccard says the setting of that higher rate by BC Hydro has been too conservative. This "top step" rate needs to go way up, and reflect the full costs of bringing new supply online; this could see the highest rate moving into the 12-15 cents/kWh range. (On my February 2011 residential BC Hydro bill, the first and second steps were 6.2 cents and 8.7 cents/kWh respectively).
On the subject of standards and regulations, Jaccard says BC Hydro has made progress here too. A case in point is the new lighting efficiency standards that will see the phase-out of incandescent light bulbs.
"[BC Hydro] has started to realize that it's better to give the money to encourage manufacturers or retailers in a certain direction, rather than final customers," says Jaccard.
They're doing it in California
California leads the way in North America when it comes to the types of regulations and "standards" Jaccard refers to. Since they emerged in the early 1970s, the state's building and appliance efficiency standards have made California the most energy efficient state.
"Our per capita energy consumption has been absolutely flat for nearly 40 years, and this is directly because of these standards," says Adam Gottlieb, spokesperson for the California Energy Commission, the state's primary energy policy and planning agency. He says standards for everything from air conditioners to fridges have enabled Californians to consume an average 7,400 kWh of electricity annually while the rest of the country averages at 12,000. (Note: a typical BC household -- 1,600 square feet, not reliant on electricity for space or water heating -- currently uses about 14,000 kWh.)
California's utilities -- a broad mix of public and privately-owned concerns, reliant on everything from imported coal power and hydro, to locally-generated power from natural gas and nuclear -- still spend a lot on traditional DSM approaches like our residential Power Smart. There like elsewhere, the impact is often dubious.
"There's no magic bullet, and there's no sure-fire way of getting a lot of people on a regular basis to conserve a lot of energy," says Alan H. Sanstad, staff scientist and energy policy analyst at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in Berkeley, California. "Even when DSM is effective, the results on the whole are modest."
What is clear, he says, is what does not work. "There's this idea that providing information gets people to conserve energy, and that idea is false, and was demonstrated to be false decades ago. When demand side management works, it works because there are money flows."
BC Hydro strikes back
BC Hydro's Patrick Mathot, manager of residential marketing for Power Smart agrees with one major point made by Jaccard: BC Hydro does a lot of scrutiny of the effectiveness of their conservation spending, including accounting for free ridership.
"We ensure that there are many more people who are influenced by our incentive activities and all the other work it takes to get that product in front of them. The sheer volume of those people overwhelm the free riders to ensure the program still makes business sense." (Jaccard stressed that his research shows BC Hydro to be one of the best utilities in North America when it comes to being "self-critical" and taking pains to accurately evaluate the effectiveness of their DSM programs.)
Like in California, the light bulb has been the primary focus of BC Hydro's residential programs since Power Smart began in 1989. He says their programs focused on lighting have had the best return on investment for BC Hydro -- they've spent about $30 million over the last 10 years, resulting in a savings of 600 gWh in the residential sector alone. But he concedes the job will get harder moving forward.
"It's getting to be more of a challenge to find more energy savings to have, because we are running out of the low-hanging fruit and are now moving up the tree."
The incentives will only grow
To date, more than 4,000 BC households have reduced their energy consumption enough to collect their Team Power Smart $75 cheque, leaving about 55,000 other Team Power Smart households out there -- including mine -- to take action.
Mathot says BC Hydro's installation of 1.8 million digital smart meters in B.C. homes and businesses starting this summer (projected to cost over $900 million) will make it possible for customers to see when and how much electricity is used in the home. "But ultimately," he says, "it will be up to people to make the decision to use less and take action to reduce their consumption."
Which brings this all back to me. Team Power Smart's online tools -- developed by social marketing experts to spur my conservation, show that my small townhouse consumed nearly 13,000 kWh in 2010 -- almost double what the average Californian residential utility customer consumed.
And therein lies a glimmer of hope for residential electricity conservation across British Columbia. When the day comes that I have to pay the same rates as a Californian, I'll have much more incentive to act. ![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
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- Ottawa posts $9-billion deficit in March despite pledge to avoid spending spree
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- Tsunami senors to be dropped into deep sea off of Vancouver Island
- Student groups file court challenge against Quebec protest law
- ...while on the streets, pirates and ninjas put aside mutual animosity to join student protests
36
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Fiat lux
1 year ago
We have a 3 level house and
We have a 3 level house and a separate workshop with all kinds of machinery, welding etc equipment. Cook with Propane and heat with wood.
Our bimonthly bill for all this is under $100. even in winter.
At the same time, when we see Vancouver and all other city cityscapes on TV, huge areas are proudly lit up like Christmas trees, with the hundreds of office buildings and skyscrapers glowing in every window, day and night.
And then, there's the question of the fraud of "economic efficiency" pushed by so called "economists" and "conservative" politicians.
When a hundred workers are fired, representing about 50 hp. of energy that already exists and has no extra environmental impact or needs more energy input, they're usually replaced by hundreds, or even thousands of hp. of electrical input and demand.
Yet in the warped minds of economists and politicians this is necessary for the fraud of "competitive efficiency, to cut costs"
What costs ? What are the real costs?
Because they haven't got the brains to understand that human labour doesn't cost anything to and in an economy, because it already exists and it is the duty of scientists and governments to provide the best use for its survival.
I didn't mention economists, as they're beyond hope. Daaaaaaaaaaaaa ????????
Look up the definition of efficiency in any highschool science book and it will say: "The lowest energy and resource inputs into any product, or service"
Then the kids go to universities to learn "economics" and brainwashed with the crap that "economic efficiency is the highest monetary returns for the lowest monetary inputs". In other words the highest profits into the pockets of a few, while the world is destroyed by daily increasing resource and energy demands to fill the predatory demands of a small percentage of virtual criminals, using the scriptural justification of screwball theories for their thieving and destruction .
Ed Deak.
jimmy_laroux
1 year ago
Interesting Article.
So regulations have been shown in practice to work in limiting per-capita household energy consumption. I wonder what Jaccard's buddies in the BC Liberal party would think about more "red-tape", especially regulations relating to construction, considering the large volume of donations the Liberals get from individuals and businesses in the real-estate and construction industries. It probably doesn't help his paymasters at IPPBC either.
Nope, I think any recommendations Jaccard makes will be ignored until he's useful again by either a) lying about the NDP or b) producing a report about how some negligible environmental effort by the government is actually super-duper great and will save the planet (Oh wait, no it won't).
Steve Cooley
1 year ago
Smart meters
Smart meters would be smart if they cost the same as or less than the dumb meters to manufacture, install and service. Smart meters would be smart if they last as long as the dumb meters or last longer. I have seen only one comment about this aspect of smart meters and it said they cost more and fail sooner. Their primary virtue appears to be the elimination of meter readers and the possibility of raising rates during peak periods. It is disguised as reducing rates during low periods. The powers that be seem to think that automated devices buy their service or product. Automate everything and there will be no market for anything. There is a better return to society by spending money for people to do things than spending the same amount for a machine.
Van Isle
1 year ago
One of things that has me
One of things that has me baffled is that we allow the sale of high energy consumption electronic gadgets. As I understand it there are some new 'flat' HD TV's that consume twice the power than an ordinary old style bulky tube-screen TV.
RBV
1 year ago
Variable Rates
We were part of the variable rate pilot program for two years. The idea was that you were supposed to schedule power use to take advantage of the low rate periods (essentially before 4PM, after 9PM and on weekends). Doing all of the reasonable things (eg. turning on the dishwasher before you go to bed, doing laundry on the weekend, turning off lights in empty rooms at night) still got us a power bill that was higher than our single fixed rate bill. Power Smart's suggestions to actually save money involved doing things like "preparing your meals for the upcoming week on the weekend and reheating them in your microwave" and "not watching television or listening to music before 9 PM". Whatever other merits the Smart Meter program may have, don't plan on saving any money unless everyone in your house works afternoon shift.
freebear
1 year ago
Another charade a la Carbon Tax
Conservation ma work to reduce a houselholds energy bill; but then hydro takes that saved enegy and sells it to someone else to consume using their electronic gadgetry.
The individual household/customers may save energy/consume less electricity (the per captita measure; per unit); but there are more of them so in the end more electricity is being consumed!
Similarly, the Comox Valley wants me to conserve water, to openm up room for more consumers of water - the projected 45,000 new residents coming in the near future!
You can't talk conservation out of one side of your mouth; while pushing growth in consumption!
Wait, that is what most people seem to be advocating!
Gordon_Ramble
1 year ago
If BC Hydro was serious about saving energy
If BC Hydro was serious about saving energy, they'd retro-fit all the street lights throughout BC with solar panels ... basically utilizing the same solar technology that is now found throughout construction sites in BC for powering temporary lighting.... however, BC Hydro isn't serious about saving energy, so that'll never happen in our lifetimes... the only thing BC Hydro is serious about is; reaching deeper into your pocket to enrich a small group of insiders at your expense.
Fiat lux
1 year ago
Free....Don't forget that
Free....Don't forget that over consumption raises the dream of economists and politicians, the sacred cow of the GDP.
The more we use and waste, the higher the GDP they can base their idiotic "growth" figures on.
Ed Deak.
elbillug
1 year ago
7.4 kWh to 14 kWh is a big difference
Specially considering that we have access to pretty much the same appliances/devices throughout North America. I wonder if anyone has done a side-by-side comparison on what this additional energy is being spent on? Do we collectively leave our TVs on all night long? The only thing that I can think of is that we run our clothes dryers a lot more here than in California, due to weather differences. But other than that (and given that this comparison doesn't take into account space heating - even though California uses a lot on ACs) I can't fathom anything that explains us having 90% higher consumption
elbillug
1 year ago
Re: Free....Don't forget that
California is hardly a model of modesty when it comes to over consumption...
Bill Sneldrake
1 year ago
Apples to apples, please
The article compares the Power Smart target of 2/3 of total new load to only residential savings (78 GWh), where the correct comparison is to all savings (residential, commercial and industrial). Power Smart reports 769 GWh of savings among all the sectors in F2010. Although BC Hydro's domestic load actually went down in F2010 -- an exceptional year -- the load usually grows by 1-2%, or 500 - 1000 GWh, so the reported savings of 769 GWh would have satisfied the objective of meeting 2/3 of new load through DSM even without the recession.
One can argue that Power Smart's estimates of savings are not accurate, or that Power Smart is claiming savings not due to its activities, but that is a separate argument needing program-by-program analysis.
Apples to apples, please!
toquer
1 year ago
Where has all the power gone?
I'd like to see a breakdown of where BC Hydro power goes: in particular, how much is exported? It seems to me that with an abundance of hydroelectric (ie. Perpetual) power, BC residents ought to enjoy relatively cheap rates. Could it be that...gasp...PowerSmart is a green-sounding program designed to decrease domestic use to increase the saleable surplus, to sell to....drumroll...the very state we're told to emulate, California?
david hadaway
1 year ago
How on earth do you use so
How on earth do you use so much power?
My annual consumption is 5,400kWh in a 100 year old 2,000 sq ft house. This is not the result of some primitive lifestyle, we use electric space heaters occasionally, the washer and clothes dryer regularly (not surprising with a teenage boy who, I may add, has never been known to switch off a light!), we cook with electricity and I've stocked up with a lifetime supply of incandescent bulbs.
I remain pretty sceptical about Hydro's motivation, but if people are burning through power the way you describe it gives cause for thought.
DavidG
1 year ago
A couple of comments
First, the power consumption of televisions. Each technology is a bit different (LEDs use less than LCDs) but the biggest factor is the size. The old cathode ray tube televisions were inefficient, but small. The new televisions are much bigger, but more efficient per square inch. A huge 55-inch new tv can use more electricity than an old 18-inch CRT.
Another huge power consumer is electronics that are not turned on. Most still consume power (it's called "vampire load") when "turned off" because they really are in stand-by mode. It's estimated that 25 percent of a home's power consumption could be eaten up by devices in stand-by mode.
Those cellphone charters (and other AC adapters) consume power if the device is full charged, or if there isn't even a device attached. Just being plugged into the wall consumes electricity.
You can get devices to measure vampire load, and power-strips to turn the power off on multiple items at once. There are also smart power strips that know not to send power to your computer's speakers when the computer is not turned on...
seth
1 year ago
Killian got snowed!!!
" average 7,400 kWh of electricity annually while the rest of the country averages at 12,000. "
We have something called Winter here. California has perpetual summer and sea breezes for air conditioning. It's not the same energy need.
The real benefit to BCHydro of smart meters is two fold.
First it can disguise the 2nd part of the 100% increase in rates made necessary by the run of the river IPP scam by raising daytime rates a lot and lowering nighttime a little. The idea of keeping your neighbors and household awake at 2 AM doing your laundry will get old real fast.
Secondly it allows BCHydro to accept payment from Bonneville for taking its worthless wind power at night, powering BCHydro's entire nighttime demand on Bonneville's stupidity, while filling up its dams overnight to sell it back to them during the day.
BCHydro justifies the meters on deterring its way out there guess of 860 GWh of grow shop thefts. These it prices not at the 1 cents a kwh average on/off peak grid rate but at the insane 13 cents a khr it is paying Gordo Campbell's stockbroker run IPP retirement fund for power. The IPP power is must take anyway and is of no use to BCHydro so it is irrelevant whether the grow ops use it or not. The low grid rate will be around in perpetuity as near term Bonneville extends its wind capacity from 3GW peak to 6 GW as required by flaky green politicians in the state government and mid and long term with new 2 cent a kwh nuclear.
If grow shops were such a big deal BCHydro at 1% the cost could just install feeder meters and compare them to existing meter power bills.
The proposed $500 or so installed power meters are designed to send a $billion in taxpayer support to stockbroker pals running the Gordon Campbell retirement fund. They generate 1 watt of 900 mhz RF compared to 100 milliwatts from WIFI or your cell phone and may well be located 4 inches from your child's sleeping head on the outside bedroom wall. Instead existing meters could be modified for twenty bucks or so and run off a 1 mw Zigbee unit if smart meters were so vital.
The real fear from the crooked politicians that give BCHydro it's orders is that the new Smart meter network could be expanded by the NDP, to offer a best in the world universal 1000 Mbs internet/IPTV/telephone communication channel to BC ratepayers for less than $2 a month putting a lucrative campaign donations from Bib Telecom in jeopardy. The fry your brain 1 watt wireless transmitter is the result.
There are no real measurable environmental benefits to smart meters - just junk science self serving twaddle about what if maybe sometime in the future behavior modification.
Jaccard's 12 -15 cents a kwh for new supply is the usual uniformed spew from this charlatan since the only possible source for new energy is nuclear power at $2B/Gw - less than 2 cents a kwh.
seth
1 year ago
WHoops Pollon got snowed!!
Reading two articles at the same time.
Driftwood
1 year ago
Conservation; the new buzzword.
Do People really need a meter to learn facts which are freely available everywhere? I read the Wikipedia article on them and came to this quote:
"Smart meters provide an economical way of measuring this information, allowing price setting agencies to introduce different prices for consumption based on the time of day and the season."
That says it in a nutshell, give private price setting agencies control of your information and they will surely find a way to clip you. Now that we have been robbed (by the current liberal party) of all that power from Kemano which by rights of contract actually belongs to us, they will find ways to clip us ever harder. Conservation is quickly becoming just another corporate buzzword.
Of course, if we had a Public Bank here in BC, we wouldn't have to sell off the crown jewels (run of river, wind farms, Anderson accounting = public power + private profit, which in Alberta translated into electricity costs 300% higher - so those of you who think we will get away with a 50% increase are just dreaming).
A Public Bank would go a long way to regaining control of the priceless assets which Campbell, Clark and co. gave away for nickels on the dollar.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23550
Washington, Oregon and five other states are soon going to have their own public banks. It is the beginning of a groundswell in public funding, and here's hoping that BC won't be last out of the blocks by a country mile.
frank2
1 year ago
I just checked, and found we
I just checked, and found we use 26 kKwh per year. This covers barns, electric fencing, workshop, etc., but still seems high. Smart meters will help to identify timing of consumption. Higher marginal rates for peak periods will provide the incentive to do something about it. In the meantime, the Power Smart incentives to find waste -- if any -- aren't worth it.
rangergord
1 year ago
team power smart
I am a team power smart member and have been a free rider on the light bulb and fridge programs. I have been on the conservation bandwagon for 20 years so saving 10% more at this point is not easy or without comprimise. All of my appliances are energy star, so is my computer and TV (my computer monitor is my TV) I switched to compact flourescent light bulbs years ago once the prices of the bulbs had come down. My only options really left at this point since I already heat with wood and natural gas are the cookstove, water heater and clothes dryer. I chose the cookstove. I replaced the electric stove with a gas model and I expect that I will be able to claim my $75 reward. My gas bill does not seem to have gone up much at all. My hotwater tank is an efficient electric model. Supposedly about a third of my power bill is for electric hotwater. The options are expensive. On demand water heaters. I would have to spend about $2000 to install a gas on demand water heater. Electric on demand heaters are slightly more efficient than tank heaters but place larger demand loads on the grid overall. I use a clothes line when weather permits and a gas dryer is very pricey and would not be used much either. This is an example of the how conservation eventually reaches a point of little return for a lot of expense. I think the smart meters will provide some further savings opportunities. Most of the savings though will be for BC Hydro as they can fire most of the meter readers and jack up rates during peak demand hours. You want California style rates? Be patient they will be here soon. The world will continue to need more power in the future. Conservation merely slows the growth in demand. Low cost electricity has been a subsidy for economic growth in BC for years. This is coming to an end. Just look at Alberta to see what kind of power bills are in your future.
miguel
1 year ago
Gordon
Gordon_Ramble: BC Hydro doesn't own any streetlights here; they are the responsibility of the city. But your idea of solar panels is good. In Toronto they removed all the curbside parking meters, and put in kiosks - one per block, to spit out parking stubs, and they are partly powered by solar panels. The old parking meter posts were converted to bike stands.
DPL
1 year ago
I see no need for smart
I see no need for smart meters. Our electrical meter is down in the developments electrical room which is locked. Even the main circuit breaker for our unit is down there. Hydro is playing games with us, bringing in two tier bills and some other think which I've yet to figure out. The whole exercise is a waste of our dollars. And since we had electric baseboard heaters( which sure are not the most efficient way to go)we will just get to pay the bill for Hydro's latest gimmick
OwlRol
1 year ago
Right on Gordon & Ed
Gordon. The cost of replacement with solar panel lighting would be high if done all at once, but B.C. Hydro needs to embark on a program to replace current lighting systems, as they age and begin to fail, with this kind of technology. Prices are coming down, and not only that, these would continue to work even during power failures.
Ever see that map of the planet at night? Some are proud to show how human civilization has advanced. Sadly, it should be a source of shame, showing how much energy (mostly fossil fuel based) is wasted.
Ed, "when we see Vancouver and all other city cityscapes on TV, huge areas are proudly lit up like Christmas trees, with the hundreds of office buildings and skyscrapers glowing in every window, day and night". I suspect that lighting has increased exponentially since the last time I flew across the country.
Office towers require some locational and emergency lighting, but Jaccard's notion of increasing the second step costs need to be expanded to a third step, much higher rate, for these towers. (Government is so afraid of imposing straight-out regulation on big corporations.) Such financial "lights out" incentives might also save several thousand migratory birds' lives each year, in each of our cities.
Our system pushes the opposite re: energy. Monster/trophy homes, many of which are dark/dim homes because no one's there most of the time, but they still require large energy inputs for heat, phantom appliance and electronic inputs, surveillance, services, etc.
Lotto promo, "win a vacation home...", ooh. A small, low energy cabin is one thing, 7,000 sq. ft. mansion is another.
Hit these really hard for wasted energy usage, be they vacant condos in Vancouver's west end or at Big White.
Separate these from principle residences, even the higher energy users. A house full of people is far more efficient than several, mostly empty ones. Even body heat helps in winter.
Fiat lux
1 year ago
ranger....We have a Bosch ,
ranger....We have a Bosch , gas , water heater on Propane, could be on natural gas, that heats the water as long as it is running for a minute, or for an hour.
It is a few years old now, but I think, we paid about $700.+
Great. Wouldn't have anything else. No tank, nothing is heating water unnecessarily.
Ed Deak.
Hugh
1 year ago
I hope they don't throw out
I hope they don't throw out those 1.8 million old meters, which worked fine.
You don't need a smart meter to tell you that when you turn the stove on, you are using electricity.
carfreecity
1 year ago
$75
the richer people can save by buying energy star stuff and they probably take vacations too
like, Go To Mexico, Hawaii or the Carribean for 6 weeks and you get the $75
skarpes
1 year ago
Should look at TOTAL ENERGY USE, not just electricity use!!!
At present, the only utility using rate adjustments for use id Hydro. So, if I use an electrical-using device such as a heatpump, (despite the fact that I am saving energy and using a green form of heating,) I am still subject to these price-adjustments based on overall use. However, if I use an old, inefficient gas (or oil) furnace, the same penalties do not apply. Energy should all be converted to a common figure (KW or BTU's) and households should pay per total use of energy (in all forms.) Otherwise, I can turn off my environmentally friendly heatpump, heat instead with oil (or wood) and come off looking good (and rewarded!) for saving electricity. Energy is energy!! Level the playing field!!!
Light the Way
1 year ago
Two tier in a 1970s house
The two tier billing system BC Hydro is using is especially hard to swallow for me and my neighbours. We live in a subdivision that was built in the 70s when BC Hydro was busy promoting the benefits of Electric Space heating instead of gas. Now we have fully finished homes complete with electric baseboard heaters.
And now the big kicker, when you look at energy efficiency programs to upgrade from electric baseboard to natural gas, they tell you your not eligable for the program. You know why, because from an efficiencty point of view electric heat is considered 100% efficient, there is no waste when used to generate heat. (This doesn't take into consideration the method in which the power is created) with all other heating methods the efficiency is considered lower. Seems like a bit of a catch 22 to me and my neighbours.
Mikemah
1 year ago
bad idea
that's a bad idea jack as it's the poor who will be affected most they can barely pay the bills . Not much chance of them going out to buy new appliance.
Wake Up
1 year ago
Hmmm... cheaper power in off
Hmmm... cheaper power in off periods... OMG. I go to work 5 days a week and work at home for at least 8 to 10 hours. I rush home, cook dinner, help child with homework, run around and make sure everything is ready for the next day, do my own homework until late at night. This is the week. On my one day off, I must clean the house, do the laundry and bake the bread and all the snacks for the coming week. This is a Saturday. I don't have any options for dinner cooking or laundry times. I can't stay up even later, because I am exhausted. Once again,the whole view of "saving" power, or "saving" gasoline/carbon emissions, seems to penalize the working class who don't have options. As the 75 post above pointed out - anyone with money isn't really affected. There has to be a more fair system. But then again, it is people who don't have to count their quarters who make up the rules.
Does anyone else out their feel the same way?
crankypants
1 year ago
Government hypocrisy
Let's see. The BC Liberal Party decrees that BC Hydro will replace all mechanical meters with smart meters under the guise of reducing energy consumption through conservation.
However, they are also on record of supporting a brand new mega-casino/entertainment complex adjacent to BC Place Stadium. The number of slot machines that exist now at the Edgewater Casino will be tripled in the new facility. Unless these slot machines run on hamster power, they will be consuming energy faster than a glutton at an all-you-can-eat restaurant. The increased size of this casino will also require greater lighting, heating and sundry other consumptive requirements of electrical power.
As I see it, the government is speaking out of both sides of its mouth, and guess whose wallets will have less money in them to spend on things they wish, such as food, clothing, shelter etc.
rangergord
1 year ago
power smart meters
Thanks for the endorsement of the tankless gas hot water heaters Ed. The price of the bosch is now $1200 plus gas fitting labour. Based on my simple stove installation that will cost me another $600 or so and then there is the HST. I am surprised no one has mentioned one of the primary benefits of smart meters for consumers. Smart meters will make hooking up an alternative
electrical power system a snap. You will be able to hook up wind generators and solar cells to your home easily and use the grid as your battery selling excess power if you do not need it and having more power availiable if you are not producing enough (most likely scenario) This will eliminate many of the costs of alternative power systems such as battery banks. In the future there will be many more alternatives for generating your own energy. Currently wind and solar are no panacea. First there are the large embodied energy costs of producing these technologies as well as the rare earth elements and precious metals required for manufacture. Most of all alternative power systems generally run on large amounts of debt financing, the curse of our age that enslaves, impoverishes and enriches the financial elite at the expense of the people.
motorcycleguy
1 year ago
hamster wheel casino
a progressive government would replace the hamster wheel powered slots with the old fashioned mechanical ones.....a dynamo hooked up to the handle would generate electricity to go back into the grid
RickW
1 year ago
Wake Up
Exactly! And as long as the system that says "if I have enough money and figure I can afford it" stays in place, NOTHING will be effective. People will (grudgingly) work with the new rules - figuring that "one day" they will have enough money that the new rules won't apply to them.
"Ordinary" people need to see that the rules apply to millionaires as well.
OwlRol
1 year ago
So many correct-Why can't we make it happen?
Hugh, most know if they pay attention, carfreecity, that's exactly the "Rebound effect", Light the Way, where's the gas and wood energy accounting (I also have baseboards)? Mikemah & Wake up, yes, most of us really get seriously dingged, but not so much the big users, crankypants, we're being forced to pay a portion of high roller usage (HST?).
FreeBear, you nailed it "The individual houseold/customers may save energy/consume less electricity (the per captita measure; per unit); but THERE ARE MORE OF THEM so in the end..."
We have a basic systemic problem that creates such energy, as well as water, food and associated problems. We are surely approaching, if not already past, the carrying capacity of our nourishing planet, as evidenced by local & global atmospheric and hydrological degradation, rapid species extinction and ecosystem collapses.
Trouble is, despite a gnawing gut feeling, most people here don't notice as they go about their daily lives (until it affects them), or they feel powerless to tackle the complexity of the problems
The sun could provide for nearly all our energy needs (wind, hydro, tidal, wave, etc.) using various, rapidly improving, small scale technologies and designs, at increasingly lower cost beyond initial installation. Institutional politics get in the way. (eg. fossil fuel subsidies, breakup of B.C. Hydro, some P3s, etc.)
Although new technologies can help to stabilize, and in some cases, reverse problematic situations, such problems, will continue and likely increase, until we change course or go down. Numerous people work on these interconnected issues, among them many of you guys, but many more are required.
The base issue,
We supposedly need more energy, more highways, more clean water, more lumber, grain, copper, gold, oil... exponentially more since World War 2, much more than population growth from that time to now, and yet only a blink in the larger scheme of things.
We’re freaking out about the baby boom retiring because there will be fewer workers. What a red herring. In the 50s & 60s. single earner families supported families of 4, 5 or 6 dependents (in smaller homes with fewer luxuries, but almost all the necessities), but now, with a tripling of productivity over that period, and far more than the comparative Canadian population growth, we are told that we have energy shortages (most of us were far more careful with energy use then) and also a 20% child poverty rate in B.C., and a considerable number of homeless people, unheard of in those days.
WAC Bennet made B.C. an energy ”superpower” of the time, arguably one of his better qualities. That zap for B.C.ers has been sucked away in the machinations of the continental energy grid and P3s.
OwlRol
1 year ago
So called needed growth costs most of us, but a few.
This paradigm of CONSTANT GROWTH; more workers, born here or imported, more consumers, more goods, here or for export, more jobs, sales, profits, more travel, more high tech toys, more, more.
This is not singular to capitalism, but it is surely glorified and accelerated by such above everything else, past the point of sustainability.
Nothing wrong with a low or even zero growth economy. If I have a sufficient number of clients to sustain a healthy and productive lifestyle, I need only replace those I may lose over time. With one or two offspring, my family will thrive, but perhaps no SUVs, smart phones or vacations in Barbados. Maybe more time for my community. Won't need more energy. Simplistic, but...
Higher growth may be needed in those parts of the world where people don’t have healthy and productive lives, but for many the system promoted here is only making things worse for them (e.g. collapsed fisheries, privatized water services, impossibly high food costs for the poor, etc.)
1% or 2% growth is unacceptable in the, so called, free market. Its highly competitive bankers, hedge fund managers and associated politicians cannot envision such a possibility, let alone accept it in their rapid, high pressure, profit driven, mostly cut throat world. (I once worked on Bay St. eons ago-hated it)
So down the tube we all go, more demand, higher rates, fewer options despite more choices for those who can afford them, some go down faster than others, while a few are still not content with their millions or even billions. More, more energy, more…
A friend just sent me a funny parable. “A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table on which sit 100 cookies. The CEO reaches across the table, takes 99 of the cookies, looks at the Tea Partier and says, "Look out for that union worker. She wants a piece of your cookie."
It really doesn’t have to be that way.
BDD63
1 year ago
My Hydro Bill Was The Only One I Didn't Mind Receiving
It only came every second month and was $40 or $50. Ah I'm already nostalgic. Why are billboards fully illuminated at 4AM when there is nobody around to look at them?