continued, after I pushed

continued, after I pushed the wrong button...

the real private enterprise of the family farm to steal from both ends, to collectivize the system by breaking producers and stealing from the public.

Another typical example of the brotherhood of communism and capitalism.

Another tragic result is the incredible growth of cancers and other illnesses, caused by chemical farming and food processing, we didn't have before, when things were grown and processed locally.

Ed Deak.

The Real Face of Capitalist "Competition"...

"The purpose of competition is to eliminate competition" JK Galbraith.

Which is the actual truth that lies behind the lie of so-called capitalist free market mythology, about the value of unfettered, unequal competition. For example, NAFTA enforced competition with all the "trucked in" produce from California and Mexico, much of it produced by quasi-slave labour, certainly labour exploited in the grim extreme, is killing the Okanagan fruit and other farming industries. (It has nothing to do with anybody doing anything better or worse, simply a more favourable natural climate, dirt poor peon labour, chemicals, river destruction for irrigation, and fume spewing long haul trucking... Which latter is still made viable by that cheap "peon" labour at the front end of the process.

Here, where I live, a hop, skip and jump from the Okanagan, where the fruit is fresher and better tasting, our lone Cooper's supermarket has nothing, absolutely nothing but produce from California and Mexico. (On a rare occasion, you MAY get some relatively small quantity of Okanagan apples.) Which much explains, along with the paving and "condoization" of the Okanagan, what is happening to all those orchards that used to be, and the inviability of local farming.

If it wasn't for our small, once a week farmer's market, we wouldn't even have a clue what local FRESH fruit and vegetables were here, if you don't have a home garden.

Capitalism is killing diversity in Canada, in exchange for indescribable single crop acreages of wheat, canola etc... largely for export to the Motherland and elsewhere... and more cattle and other "livestock" than there are humans in this country. It is part of the overall destruction of the country and its Amerikanization, which is being carried out by Corporate Mafia Amerika, aided and abetted by our own US Empire Loyalists, of the likes of Harper. (Though I don't hear anything from any of the "parties" to what passes for the Canadian Parliamentary System, vigorously protesting, opposing, and/or helping to organize a popular resistance to this economic destruction of Canada either. Control of our own potash industry, already much controlled by US interests, is now as well just about gone entirely offshore. And Harper says he is not going to life a finger.)

Which is all just about an irretrievable done deal.
And which, if we really loved Canada, we would not be allowing to happen.

Competition across the entire economy doesn't really make "stuff" cheaper in the end, but more expensive, ALL inputs and consequences considered, and destructive of the national social fabric, where one Big US/Other Foreign Capitalist's raison d'etre is to kill many Canadian ones, making us dependant on it.

We need to protect our own national economy, its diversity and viability, if necessary with prudent barriers and tariffs. Our objective needs to be "self-sufficiency" to the maximum possible degree, not "dependency" on others.

Local Food Production

Thank you Tyee for bringing this important subject to your pages. We can sustainably produce enough food for all in our neck of the woods. Keep talking about it and slowly but surely it will happen. Keep talking about it to everyone you know. Write letters to your MLA, your municipal council, et cetera; just keep talking about it. Thank you.

My full agreement,

My full agreement, Jerry.

It may take some time, but finally it may just sink into people's brains that there's no such thing as "cheap" in economics, the only difference is in who pays the full, real prices, and who collects the stolen benefits.

The sole purpose of the fraudulent free trade treaties, not "agreements", but international treaties, is to cause incompetence with so called "specialization" , separate the makers from the users, collectivize the production and distribution of products into the hands of a criminal element, called multinational corporations, and enslave humanity with the perceived power of imaginary capital.

The purpose of the original mafia has been, and is, to collectivize and control the production and distribution of illegal products, of the corporate mafia, to control
the production of foods and other necessities, scripturally endorsed by university economics departments, enforced by governments.

Ed Deak.

Loss of food

It's very difficult to convince people who've not lived in a farming community or having growen up on a farm and still feel low-class
somehow,that we're deliberately setting ourselves up to be completely dependent on other countries for food. (And water too, but that's a whole topic right there)
I work with smart, educated, people who're involved in their town, but they cannot understand when I exlain it to them-they think I'm just the old grumpy guy-which I
am, but that's also whole topic there too.
My wife and I go to the local farmer's market
when it's open (closed noe for the season), and we pay more for B.C.,or at least Canadian
products (not just food, by the way) just to keep our farmers and producers going. It's less "inconvenient" than actually going out and spending 20 minutes away from some American sit-com and voting; and it does get some kind of good done. I hope.
Trying to tell people to buy local makes one out to be a real "crankpot"
Ed Deak and Jerry Munro up there need to be heard by others than the "choir", here.
Some other media, or sneak it on MSM-there has to be enough intelligent people out there than brain-washed idiots who're almost as ignorant as the Americans they like to smugly mock-they're just Canadian red-necks. They must be out numbered by real people.
Jeez!
Ex-Haney guy

free trade sucks

Before the original FTA was enforced on us, 88% of trade between the US and Canada was duty free. The remainder was to protect Canadian business and jobs. When those actually mattered. And the US did the same. It wasn't the end of the world. But these agreements have been the end of a lot of farmers. Free trade is anything but. These trade pacts have virtually nothing to do with trade. They are about transferring control from governments to multinational corporations and the wealthy.

Lateral integration

I have a contribution to this conversation. It's about a scheme which I understand originated with the Safeway corporation when it was largely controlled by religious interests of some sort, though it's quite possible they borrowed the idea.

It's called lateral integration, and it involves gaining ownership or control of every step in the production and distribution of your product. For example:

Say a national grocery store chain felt prosperous and decided to acquire or create it's own warehousing and supplier operation, then buy all of it's product from themselves. A seemingly sensible move to rationalize and secure supply.

Then, needing transport from the warehouse to the store, acquires trucking outfits, which it also, like the warehouses, operates as separate businesses with different names, as if they remain independent.

Then, realizing the advantage, takes a sufficient position in the Imperial Valley, for example to be able to deeply influence farmgate prices, forcing them down below the cost of production. This involves selling produce at a loss to others as well as your own frontend grocery chain, but in exchange you get virtual control of the price structure for the basic product which is the source of all of the income for all of the steps in the production and distribution chain.

Keep in mind that you own it all, and pay all the costs and reap all the profits from all the steps, so if you chose to operate any or even several of them at a loss, it doesn't affect your totals at all. You simply take your profit at whichever level you choose.

You can even change that choice from time to time, in order to, say, drive down local independent farms, to buy them at auction, then drive out independent truckers to keep down milage rates, or even to drive out competing grocers, though that one does cost you something, since it's the only level that involves outside money flowing into this process in any volume.

Yes! Local Food Production is ...

Not withstanding the standup eloquent narratives of Jerry Munroe and Fiat Lux, the local farming market is a value that must not be overlooked.

I live on the Saanich pennisula and indeed support the local farming community 100%. We have a diveristy of products from vegetbles to local meat product. All of which are superior to imported crap that the Safeways, thrifty, come what ever else provides.

We need to support these farmers totally, even though their costs are more. But the product is 100 percent better, no doubt, and fresh.

Screw the politics involved, just support your local farmer and the rest will be solved.

sdgreen........All the power

sdgreen........All the power to the local markets, but you have to remember that the official figure to drive 1 km is around .50cents.

Which means that if a farmer has to drive 20 km each way, it means a traveling expense of around $20. he or she has to cover from the sales, before making anything.

The biggest problem is the fixing of prices by the multinationals, controlling the markets, feedlots distribution system, stealing all sides blind and no government dares to make a beep, protesting, or outlawing this fraud.

Hundreds of Canadian ranchers will go bust this year, and thousands over the past 10 or so years, on account of the control of the feedlots by a single US corporation.

Besides, feedlots are completely unnecessary and a late invention to put chemicals and grease into the meats.

There were no feedlots when I started in '48 and nobody missed them, or would miss them if they were eliminated tomorrow and the markets were controlled by the producers.

ODB is correct, "free trade" and the WTO are enslaving rackets that destroy the economies of all countries forced into it, by killing people's democratic decision making powers.

I fought against the FTA in the 80s and later against the NAFTA, but wait what the CETA is going to bring, apart from millions from directorships for Harper.

Ed Deak.

Food For Us All

We can't depend upon California for our food needs. We need to support our own farmers who incur substantial costs because of our current torrential rains. Please support our farmers.

http://briangough.blogspot.com/2010/10/awesome-brian-gough-story.html

Home Grown

The best food is often home grown but will people pay more for it is a question in the article and probably the most important question too.

As the organic farmer says, "...their potatoes have to cost more, they have to. The true cost of production has to be paid."

The present system of distribution and sale is based on the market principal. Are organic farmers successfully selling all they produce, or are they not because of the existence of cheaper produce in the shops?

NAFTA is not responsible. Today, in suburban Vancouver one can buy common everyday vegetables, at regular prices, imported by an Ontario company from China.

Organic meats, like beef,

Organic meats, like beef, etc. can be produced "cheaper" than the chemical garbage.
This can be proven very easily.

E.g there was an ad in the Save on Foods (what a ridiculous lie, the most expensive store) for organic chicken at $12.99/lb.

Daylight robbery and fraud, because those chicken cost less to grow, than the chicken meat factory garbage, poisoning people with hormones and steroids.

We've been doing it right here with chicken and beef, for 31 years, not just read about it in some books.

The same goes for many vegetables. 25, or so, years ago we went into organic chive production, hand cut, dried, beautiful and the best, by all experts who tried them. Still have some of the correspondence.

We needed about $60/lb to make something, but the highest price we've been offered was $15/lb, when the same stuff was selling at $400/lb. in the stores.

The world's food production is under the control of the international corporate mafia, who are out to steal all sides blind with the tacit permission of governments, who call themselves "conservatives", in their pay.

Ed Deak.

As an aside......

http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/cuba_organic_food.cfm

And speaking of Walmart, because it has gone into food distribution, it is forcing the grocery stroe to consider cutting their prices. In other words, food is going to become yet cheaper - in a society where cheap food is leading records rates of obesity.

And R/M old man, that food from China -- has it been inspected by the CFIA? You wanna eat malamine-laced (or whatever) food
http://www.foodsafetyfirst.ca/the-weatherill-report/report-card/
Bad enough that the big processors here get away, literally, with murder. But that's OK, 'cause healthcare is a different budget - just another way for the importers and processors to "externalize costs".

Organics and The Food Mafia...

"We needed about $60/lb to make something, but the highest price we've been offered was $15/lb, when the same stuff was selling at $400/lb. in the stores." Fait Lux

Interesting info, Ed. And I agree entirely. The fact is, knowing cattle best, beef production should be cheaper organically and done right... without expensive medicinals and hormones, and all the research that go into those, that go with feedlot finishing etc, especially if "grass fed". Chickens and pigs which we have raised lots of, ditto. With no small part of the savings coming from the fact that "ranged" animals are less stressed and as a result, happier and in better health generally over their lifetime. (All you've got to do is observe "caged" chickens to understand this.)

(If you have an anaemic, pale looking egg yolk, the odds are it was grain/ other feed fed. And it will tend to be on the bland side for taste. Whereas a distinctly deep "orange" looking yolk , is probably from a ranged/hay fed chicken, much, much tastier. If the egg "splooshes" out into the pan like water, it is an "older" egg. A nice fresh egg yolk and white will all "hold together" better, be more "compact".)

Again, in my experience, "crossbred" animals are generally healthier, smarter, more vigorous and better weight gainers per time period than the excessively inbred "purebreds". (Likely the same for humans. :-)

The one "cost negative" is, you can't over crowd your animals quite the same on range etc., or you've got to keep moving them to new pasture.

A "free" human is happier and responds better than an imprisoned one. And its no different with animals, if they are overly confined.

The problem is, the big food mafia underpay the rancher/farmer and charge what the market will bear/over charge the consumer. And if they can import greater volumes from cheap labour "global" markets, the margins are even greater. Hence the tendency to import more and more of our food.

Anyway, an interesting discussion.

Jerry....We only have a few

Jerry....We only have a few heads left now, for a few friends, but when we were selling our beautiful, organic, grass fed, no shots, no antibiotics, no hormones, no steroids, calves at the sales, they were pumped full of shots, like all the others, as they were being loaded on the buyers'trucks.

There was an article in the Western Producer some years ago, when they were following cattle from one lot to another and the procedure was, and most likely still is, repeated every time the animals changed hands, or went to another lot, until they received 5-6 times the recommended dosages of everything.

And there are no government, or any other checks, this is an accepted routine the public has no clue about.

When our daughter was working in a herb store on West 4th in Vancouver, they were ordered to spray the bins, with the organic herbs, with pesticides, by city bylaw.

The "organic" vegetables, imported from the US and Mexico, are nuked at the borders, killing all the food values, to last forever in the stores and to kill any bugs.

The public is stuffed full of chemicals and poisons, while the stupid ass "conservative" governments are crying their eyes out over increasing cancer rates and health costs and we're inundated with begging calls for "research for cures".

I grew up in the depression and war years in an impoverished country, but we had no cancer and diabetic epidemics and no kids died, because whatever food our parents could afford, was clean, organically grown
and healthy.

It would be interesting to know the cancer rates in Cuba as opposed to Canada's.

Everything has limits, except human stupidity

Ed Deak

Ed

It's all "genetic", don't ya know Ed? That way, there will always be "research" (money) into (expensive) "cures". To admit that cancers are generated by the poisons we dump so freely into the air, soil, and water would destroy Big Pharma, Big Chemical, and Big Oil.............

Rick

I'm just reporting, not saying which has been examined or is better.

Abrogating NAFTA is of little importance if Asian countries are exporting produce.

The question is: do the people want to pay more for locally grown produce and are they and should they be forced to by restricting imports?

It's not crystal clear.
http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/Is-Purchasing-Organic-Produce-Worth-The-Cost-/418056

People are paying more for

People are paying more for stuff imported than produced locally, with pollution, climate change,dictatorial collectivization of economic systems in the name of "competition", poverty and its consequences,crimes, health care, etc etc.

Monetary costs are not realities, but often violence induced perceptions, e.g. the removal of industries into slave labour countries, therefore can not be used for economic calculations.

Real costs can not be cut only transferred on others, the ecology and future generations.

All economic activities, including the growing of food, are based on strict physical laws, therefore all economic theories must follow the same laws.

There's only one form of efficiency, the physical. Monetary efficiency doesn't exist. It is a goddamn fraud to mislead and rob people of their human rights, health and decision making powers.

The NAFTA, WTO etc are criminal organizations

Ed Deak.

samuidave

Then we have to eliminate political contributions for a start. Candidates at present enter into an automatic conflict of interest: namely, they must affiliate themselves with a party in order to secure the ever-increasing funds needed to get their message out, so they can, if elected represent the people of a riding. But the necessity of fund raising also obligates them to the fund givers, which all too often takes precedence over the constituents.

Bringing Down Rome... :-)

"So I suggest we start with the first item on the list, democracy. Knowing two truisms, 1) the system does not represent the people, and 2) the system will never voluntarily change itself to represent the people's interests, here is my suggestion for a homegrown fix.
We get a movement started, now, to have everyone in BC vote for the most honest, independent candidate in their electoral district who has not ties, past or present, with a mainstream party." samuidave.

And you know that I agree with you, brother. The first problem is, it's going to take more than you and I beating our heads against the proverbial wall.

Second, in my view, there is going to have to be a "supportive" socio-political climate out there, that I frankly don't see YET:

a) To give support to, work with, and yes, even LEAD what needs to occur on the "formal" political front.

b) To act as a counter to ruling class economic power, on the streets, cutting through the media blockade etc, creating "demand pull" on formal politics, influencing its direction etc. In effect, acting as that working class velvet gloved mail fist. (See France and Greece, soon Britain and spreading.)

c) And finally, of no entirely small consequence, what RickW alludes to. There needs to be that supportive socio-political climate, with its collective cash resources, in addition to its street presence, helping to provide "alternative financing" to those "independent" candidates of which you speak. (And controlling the purse strings, they control those "independents". :-) Because the reality is, the current system does favour and facilitate the current party system. And buys those parties off... such as the NDP. :-)(Though I am convinced, again, in the right social climate, that there is a way around it.)

Meanwhile, we all do need to continue to try and build this movement, in whatever milieu of the working class we find ourselves... trade unions, pensioners groups, student groups, yes even universities and other education facilities such as trades schools, professional associations, poverty groups, whatever.

And I don't know, maybe we are just bleating lambs in the wilderness here, there is no way of knowing for sure, but I do think/hope our discussions here are helping in the task of creating what needs to be. Rome was not built in a day, nor was it brought down in a day.

More re Samuidave...

But just in case I didn't make it clear, I personally think, again given the necessary socio-political support climate that I think has to be in place, that your idea of "independent" candidates is a goddamn good one. And it does not have to be mass, across the whole of society all at once.

Even now, wherever there is this "supportive" climate and willing bodies :-), independent "progressive" candidates could certainly be run. I think it could catch on and be a positive development, more so even than "another" political party, with all the compromising risks that entails.

Especially with the status quo political party system right now, in such ill repute, even with many who still vote. I think there is a desire for an alternative already in the land, no one just knowing what, who or how.

And ther "ruling class" knows.......

....the "divide and conquer" maneouvre works well. And the best way to do this (in a democracy) is to keep the citizenry in a constant state of unease. That is the way for neighbour to look askance at neighbour, instead of looking at said neighbour for support.

Right now the universities,

Right now the universities, teaching the criminal neoclassical market economic/capitalism theory, are the biggest cause of the growth of fascism, through the deregulated "creation" of money used as weapon of colonization and the fraudulent definition of economic efficiency, as the "biggest profits for the least monetary inputs", resulting in the communist/capitalist collectivization of the economy in the hands of an international ruling class.

And of course, always in the name of "freedom" and "free enterprise", while millions of real private enterprisers, such as the family farms, trades, businesses are ruined to control the world's food supplies and with them, humanity at large.

Until the garbage being taught in the universities is questioned, and the corporate dictatorship over what's being taught is eliminated, there's no hope for change.

The governments are nothing more than pimps in the pay of the owners of their parties, the multinational corporate mafia.......

....borrowing and paying interests on monies the governments/public already owns by law.

How stupid can humans become ?

Ed Deak.

joining the discussion...

"In this world, the only real vote we have which carries any weight is how we spend our money." Maybe true, samuidave, maybe true...which I think is in very large part what this series is about. It took 30 odd years for organic to become mainstream – but 85% of Canadians now buy some, though not all, organic food . The point I want to make here is that we do not have to choose to spin our wheels waiting for the revolution, we can make a difference in purchasing food locally - and by that I mean as close to home as possible. I hear from acquaintances and discussions how people (some, in any event) would like things to change - yet the idea that some politicians, or governments, or universities - or any perceived 'leaders' are going to lead us out of this mess is just not going to happen, because they are all too entrenched in the status quo. Business is going to look after profits, universities are going to continue to be the places of entrenched, conservative thought in the name of 'good scholarship', and politicians are going to continue to do what it takes to get elected. Governments are composed of such a small, non-representative sample of the population - mostly law and business - that waiting for imagination there is like waiting for...hmm, I dunno, the rapture, maybe.
But we can, we really can influence things at the local level. We can buy local food, and we can support businesses that use local food. (Think many do? Ask, and find out.) This applies to an awful lot of things...don't like minimum wage? Stop supporting businesses that pay it: ask your local stores what their wages are and tell them you will not support their restaurant, store or whatever unless they raise their wages. And while you are at it, tell them you don't support the idea of part-time jobs for everybody, either.
I could go on and on here, but it is not necessary...you all will get the point. While I am the last person to believe that dollars equate value, given the current system we are in let us at least make our dollars reflect our true values. For me, this means buying local food, except for items such as spices, sugars, and flours, etc. It means I cook from scratch - yes, really from scratch, no cans, bags, boxes or drive-throughs, and I can, freeze, dry and otherwise preserve the abundant food of summer for the winter. I do NOT patronize restaurants that pay minimum wage, which sadly, in my community is almost all of them. There is a cost in this, as I do not get to go out as often, and the work of cooking from scratch is time-consuming. Yet the benefits are incalculable...I am healthy and fit, for example. But most importantly I have a sense that my way of living does reflect my true values, and frankly, that is the only way I get to sleep at night.

continuing the discussion,sorry...

Anyway, here is my challenge to you, made before, I am sure - go to a local place of business where you are known and have the local food/wage discussion with them. For most small businesses, having even 5 or 6 regular customers tell them they won't support them without some change will be enough to make them think very deeply. It is still small business that creates the majority of jobs in Canada, and the impact of here should not be dismissed.
I certainly agree that we need to remake a lot of systems in this country. At the risk of being trite, it could get a start with me and you and the choices we make with our dollars.

Against minimum wage and part-time jobs

There are a lot of small local retail businesses paying minimum wage and hiring part-time staff. Let me tell you why.

Big box stores, like Wal-mart, have effectively cut down the profit margins that used to be available to small retailers. Many of the ones we have now are the few who are still able to hang on to their businesses. There are no profit to cover wages above minimum. And don't forget, as employers, these small retailers have to pay EI, CPP, WCB, holiday pay, annual vacation on top of the wages the employees get. Boycotting them is barking up the wrong tree in my view.

Quite often, small business owners only make enough profit to afford part-time staff.

Yes, the Wal-marts pay more than minimum wages, but I buy from local small retailers even they pay minimum wage and/or hiring only part-time staff. I simply tip the staff like I tip in a restaurant.

I know, I was told before that businesses which could not afford to pay more than minimum wage should close their doors. But I don't agree.

BC Farmland

Why do we forget the huge amount of farmland and the production of wheat( and other grains), canola, beef from BC's Peace River. Ironically in the forcasts of Climate change Peace River farmland will be more and more inportant. Currently the peace river farmlands have the ability to grow garden vegtables of all kinds and will increasingly in the future. Unfortunately the agricultural land withdrawals of class 2 and 3 lands is skyrocketing in the peace and the potential Site C dam would prevent the ability of vegetable production to support northern bc in the future.

boycott?

I made no mention of boycotting any business, but I do encourage people to have the discussion about food sourcing and wages at places of business that they patronize, for they are inextricably linked.

As CEO of my own business for 13 years, I paid union wages, though not unionized, and gave full-time hours to those who wanted it. I also charged more - much more - than my competitors, and still had the largest market share, and higher-than-industry average profit margin. Businesses that believe that constantly lowering prices is the way to compete need some education: competing on the basis of customer service and sustainable business practices and fair wages is considered to be a rather powerful marketing tool just now - you can be sure if the marketers have got hold of these ideas that they are the way of the future. Not making enough profit is a failure of management expertise...now do tell, if your local restaurant, for example, said they were raising prices by 20% to cover a wage increase of 20% - about the amount of a tip - how may customers would they lose? Not many, I can assure you, for all that middle class guilt would be assuaged.The fact that many people cannot manage their businesses well is why we actually have business 'leaders' saying we ought not to have a minimum wage at all...More than 50% of all small business fails within 5 years of start-up - but that figure has held true for decades. Time for more iniative and imagination in the small business sector, would be my conclusion.

Jerry Munro, not to take away from your lovely, and appreciated comments...few who know me would call me soft - even around the edges :)If we want to change people around us - in the sense of encouraging them to live their values, then we can do no else but model it, and to have the conversations - in public and private - that engender new ideas and new ways of looking at things.

Thanks for letting me join in.