News

New Law Lets Police Force Homeless to Visit Shelter

Controversial legislation assailed by civil liberties advocates, NDP.

By Andrew MacLeod, 30 Oct 2009, TheTyee.ca

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Housing Minister Coleman: 'Tool' for saving lives.

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Housing and Social Development Minister Rich Coleman introduced legislation today that will allow police to force homeless people to go to shelters during extreme weather.

"This act will give police a tool to say, 'You have to go to the shelter,'" said Coleman. Once offered a bed and a meal, most people will choose to stay, he said. "We just think we need the tool to get them there."

Police officers are to give people they deem at risk a choice between going to an emergency shelter or finding other accommodation on their own, the Assistance to Shelter Act says. "If a person at risk refuses to comply with or fails to respond to the police officer's request [to go to a shelter], the police officer, using reasonable force if necessary, may transport the person at risk to an emergency shelter."

It defines a "person at risk" as someone who is at least 19 years old who "in the opinion of the police officer is suffering physical harm or is at risk of suffering physical harm because of the extreme weather conditions."

The bill says the definition of "extreme weather" will follow the definitions cities are using in their Extreme Weather Response Plans, but the provincial cabinet can make regulations to adjust the definition.

Criteria in Vancouver include temperatures near zero with rainfall making it "difficult or impossible for homeless people to remain dry." Sleet, freezing rain, snow, high winds or temperatures below negative two degrees Celsius also count as extreme weather.

An earlier draft of the bill, The Tyee reported, would have allowed police to arrest people who refused to go to a shelter.

Law will prevent deaths: Coleman

Coleman described how police officers will be able to use the new authority today's bill will give them: "If you're on the street and you walk up to someone and you say, 'You know, it's 30 below zero and you're going to freeze out here.' And they say, 'I'm not going anywhere.' You say, 'Well actually there's a shelter and I have the authority to take you to the shelter.'"

He said the power is needed to avoid deaths like the one of the woman known as Tracey who died last winter in Vancouver after a candle in her makeshift tent started a fire.

"What the minister doesn't talk about is the 1,000 other people who were on the street in Vancouver that night who couldn't find shelter or where the shelters in fact wouldn't allow them to bring their few possessions with them or bring their pet with them," said Shane Simpson, the MLA for Vancouver-Hastings and the New Democratic Party's critic for housing and social development.

The legislation is silent on whether police will transport people's dogs, shopping carts or other possessions, he said.

"I think what we need to do is create opportunities and encouragement to get people off the street in extreme weather," he said. "Nobody wants people on the streets in extreme weather. But I don't think you do that in a heavy-handed fashion."

Housing strategy needed: Coleman

Forcing people to go to shelters is unlikely to be successful, Simpson said. "If there is somebody who is reluctant to go to a shelter, and the police use 'reasonable force' and take them to a shelter, what's the possibility they're going to stay there?"

Many people have reasons for avoiding shelters, he said. "They may have had bad experiences with shelters," he said. Perhaps they couldn't bring their belongings in with them, or they felt unsafe, he said.

"If the minister actually wanted to do something he would supply the resources and work more closely to develop additional barrier free shelters and to tell us what the housing strategy is to get 2,000 people off the street in Vancouver who are living homeless today in the city."

Police may already apprehend people under the Mental Health Act, said Simpson. They have a tool to get someone off the street if they are deemed to have a mental illness and be a risk to themselves or others.

The Assistance to Shelter Act fails to say how it will work with the Mental Health Act, but Simpson said he could imagine them working in tandem. "Is the implication here that if you agree to come to the shelter then you must be of sound mind?" he asked.

Coleman seems to be telling people who refuse shelter they're likely to find themselves considered mentally ill, said Simpson. "If you're opposed to coming to the shelter in extreme weather, then you must have a mental health issue so I'll use this other piece of legislation to take action."

Charter challenge inevitable: BCCLA

The bill is outrageous, said B.C. Civil Liberties Association executive director David Eby. "The idea of police forcing anyone to report to the nearest homeless shelter is concerning to us to say the least."

He questioned the government's motives, saying the law will likely be used to remove visible homeless people from places visited by tourists during the Olympics.

"The idea the minister is concerned about people being outside in extreme weather is absurd," he said.

"There's no possible way this is about saving lives, because if it was about saving lives they would be opening shelter beds."

The BCCLA or another organization will challenge the Assistance to Shelter Act, he said. "It's inevitable there will be a charter challenge of this legislation."

Coleman acknowledged the bill may face a charter challenge in court. "Our advice is this one could be challenged and frankly I think that's healthy," he said. Canadians need to have a discussion about whether officials should be able to force people into shelter for their own protection, he said.

The bill comes to the legislature the day before the Olympic torch relay begins. Asked if it is part of a plan to sweep the streets of homeless people before and during the Olympic Games in Vancouver, Coleman said. "That always comes up but I'm going to tell you it's absolutely wrong... This has got nothing to do with the Olympics."

Simpson said he could understand why some people in Vancouver think the bill is aimed at cleaning up the streets before the games. Presenting a strategy to end homelessness would reduce that cynicism, he said. "This legislation meets the need of the minister to look like he's doing something, it doesn't meet the need of the homeless." [Tyee]

Andrew MacLeod is The Tyee's Legislative Bureau Chief in Victoria. Reach him here.

49 Comments:

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  • mary jane

    2 years ago

    responsibility by kids

    An ethical caring government would give these people proper welfare. The real adults of BC know there have been thousands of jobs lost. gordos method of providing a social safety net is to punish people because they lost their jobs, have a family crisis or medical problem is by providing a mat on a floor somewhere. Its cheaper to give real welfare than give a homeless shelter about $100 a nite for a mat on the floor to someone who lost their job due to the global problems. Wasn't the global problem created by greed? Some have gotten the exact cost to tax payers for shelters.

    Granted some people won't go in shelters because of bed bugs, fear of harm or fear of losing the little they have left of their life or possessions.

    The welfare system is not enough to pay rent, eat one reasonable meal a day and keep clean enough to look for work. But its better than living on the street.

    Is it any wonder people are saying the liberal party is dead. I feel sick when I see gordo on TV and am glad for the mute button

  • ReeferMadness

    2 years ago

    Pathetic

    If we took some of the six billion dollars being spent on the Olympics and related capital projects and spent some of it on low income housing, they wouldn't need to pass regressive laws like this.

  • make_up_another...

    2 years ago

    It's A Tool To Help The Homeless!

    Another milestone in the march towards making it illegal to be poor.

    Conveniently, here is a law to force people off the streets in extreme weather, just in time to keep the streets clean for the games, which just so happen to be in the winter.

  • silvervalley

    2 years ago

    If they truly want to help,

    let the police be empowered only to offer a ride or a phone call. The power to coerce can expand.

    How long before anyone who has the 'wrong' opinion or a sign on their property can be fined, harassed or jailed?

    Hmm ... sounds familiar.

  • Jeffrey J.

    2 years ago

    Olympic Sweep Up the Streets

    As everyone in BC knows (who has read the amazing Five Ring Circus by UBC Prof. Chris Shaw), this law is a page from the standard play book done by every jurisdiction that hosts the Olympics. Each jurisdiction passed its own version of a set of laws that allow the police to evict the poor and homeless from the city.

    Obviously, BC would be shamed if the world found out how unjust our society has become. We certainly can't have that.

    More good coverage of a an issue that symbolizes the deep social inequality that now defines BC's citizens.

  • demotto

    2 years ago

    Popper graves

    I wonder if they've enough popper graves for the bodies that are sure to pile up as the Police use reasonable force(tasers) to make them comply with being kidnapped.

  • Rolf Auer

    2 years ago

    Has anybody noticed...

    ...that Canada is rapidly becoming a police state?

  • mary jane

    2 years ago

    shame

    gordo and cohorts have shamed us all. The lack of ethics, the shabby crap that has proceeded these events. YES proper graves for all those who have passed since gordo took over all those years ago. He has left a black mark on our history and our future.

  • freebear

    2 years ago

    What A Tool!

    And the Minister is one too!

  • k3nt

    2 years ago

    take a breath

    I think taking a breath might be useful. For sure the Liberals are stoked to cloak one of their motivations to clean up the streets in this act, but seriously they're not inhuman. Jeez people. I despise their attitude to people from classes lower then theirs as much as the next guy from a class lower than theirs, callous though they be, too many winters have seen the public fear, bridging all classes, over people living on the street freezing to death. The Liberals spent all BC's money. There's no money for shelters, health or education. Quit pining for it. It doesn't exist. This is a band-aid solution. A band-aid is better than bleeding to death if you can't get a surgeon to sew you up. They can't legislate us to save winter clothes in a bag to hand out in a freeze. That's what I do. That's what you should do. As that asshole (Bill O'Reilly) from FOX rants "SHUT UP!" "JUST SHUT UP!"

  • alive

    2 years ago

    some prefer the street!

    There seem to be 2 choices here:
    Either you live on the street and survive with next to nothing, or you go to a shelter and everything has to be up to spec!

    Whatever we do for the homeless has to meet so many requirements that it becomes expensive.

    Has anybody considered that many homeless would be pleased to be able to just get in under a roof?

    They can survive without sanitized beds and styrofoam cups; what matters is to have a place to sleep and a place to store their few belongings.

    All the "minimum standards" we have do not necessarily apply to people who deliberately insist on living a different lifestyle.

    Our conscience can be clear if we just make sure they do have the option to get out off the street when the weather turns ugly.

    It is a different story with people who did not choose to live on the street, and for them we need to provide the opportunity to get a decent job.

  • Mikemah

    2 years ago

    shame

    Rich Coleman would definitely win the gold for LYING.

  • Jerry Munro

    2 years ago

    the democratic deficit...

    It's all part of what has come to be known as, "the democratic deficit."

    I mean they will deny the homeless poor welfare and "force" them into shelters, whether these folks consider it safe, or want to or not. Now, can you imagine "the system" even compelling adequate "regulation' on the ruling business class so that they are prevented or punished from/for ripping off small investors and consumers, and foisting massive unemployment on the victimized masses? Not friggin' likely. Can't interfere with the free operation of the free market.

    Though they will get billions, even trillions in corporate welfare to save them from themselves when they do fuck up as a consequence of their own greed, you know that.

    I can smell the coffee.

  • Wilfride Laurier

    2 years ago

    General Strike!

    It is time for a general strike, recall and class warfare! Just like last week!

  • Jerry Munro

    2 years ago

    The police state continues to evolve...

    "It is time for a general strike, recall and class warfare! Just like last week!"

    Indeed it is Wilfride. It's just that no wine gets bottled before its time. Which is still maturing.

    We'll all know, soon enough, when it's ready for tasting. There won't be any doubt.

  • carfreed

    2 years ago

    dreadful

    Has he ever stayed at a shelter?
    I have.
    I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
    They have a choice, once they get there? If they refuse then what?
    What if its full? Continous escort until they find one with space?

  • Crass

    2 years ago

    as Coleman says...

    "This has got nothing to do with the Olympics."

    What more proof do you need to believe this has nothing to do about the Olympics?

    Just listen to his words. He is so reassuring. I feel so much better that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Olympics now that Mr. Coleman has stated so.

    On another note: A study was conducted in the last couple years or so that came to the conclusion that each homeless person in the Lower Mainland costs the taxpayer $55,000 per year, for medical treatment due to increased risks to illness, emergency treatment, etc. Only a person blinded by the assumptions of free market ideology (i.e. that poor people are poor because they didn't work hard enough; that rich people are rich because they work harder then other people) would continue down this path of utter stupidity.
    Welcome to BC: "The Best Place On Earth"

  • Burnabyite

    2 years ago

    People without homes;

    One imagines all the folks mentioned herein will be moved to safe warm homes in Point Grey/Kerrisdale. We all understand how honestly concerned our Premier is for these poor unfortunates amongst us in East side Vancouver.
    Our B.C premier is a man of empathy and is always there to assist and welcome them to the wealthy west side environs of Vancouver.

  • Fii

    2 years ago

    Would be interesting to do a

    Would be interesting to do a little experiment during the Olympics/in the lead up to them. Park yourself near a venue with your sleeping bag (and pet?) to see if the cops approach you and how they actually go about "forcing" you to a shelter....

  • Bob Watts

    2 years ago

    Laws???

    My father and grandfather fought for freedom. When the soldiers got back from War they came up with “Social Credit” AKA “Welfare”. The idea was that all Canadians would have a roof over their heads and enough food to remain healthy.
    Why are there homeless people? What changed? Shelters are not the answer!
    $56 million is being spent this year for 1,500 shelter beds/mats, that equals over $102 per night or just over $3,060 per month. The cost of shelters have gone up about $400 per month from the shelter rates last year.
    This stuff makes me gag. Our leaders just don’t get it. The system our soldiers gave us worked, we did not go bankrupt, if anything Canada prospered under a fully funded welfare system. Business people just can’t grasp the idea that 100% of welfare dollars go them. How many apartment buildings where built in the 60’s finding a job took under 24 hours. Few homeless, no food banks. Welfare rates where 105% of the poverty line. Today welfare rates are 50% of the poverty line, 75% of the homeless are not on welfare. Housing is now shifted to non-profits, and the cost of this kind of shelter is 10X the welfare rate. Food Banks are now supplied directly from food companies, they dump their out of date waste and are issued an 80% of the value exempt tax donation.

  • salty dog

    2 years ago

    Broadbased legislation

    The problem with this legislation it`s too vague.

    The police will escort the homeless person to a shelter,a shelter where? Nanaimo,Vernon,the nearest available, the act is vague.

    But the scariest part of this legislation is the part about extreme weather,the bill states "extreme weather will be defined as what cities define extreme weather but cabinet can and may adjust definitions of what extreme weather is"

    Coleman uses an example of ...if it`s 30 below zero....First off it never gets that cold in Metro,but....it does rain steady with temperature 2 to 4 celcius....Wind is mentioned, anyone expecting a typoon?
    A typical Vancouver winter is damp/rain/ 2 to 5 degrees celcius...is that extreme?

    That same temperature range exists in the fall and spring, if we get snow it will be slushy and warm,warm enough for kids to be sledding and playing outside, so is 6 inches of snow with temperature around 1 0r 2 extreme?...

    Not as far as I`m concerned,if it`s warm and pouring rain is that extreme.....

    I will consider the weather to be extreme when the tourists stay off the street.

    But, if tourists and kids are out playing you can`t drag away street people.

    But,you commenters are wise,you know,I know,the street people know they are going to be dragged away,and probably shipped out to Surrey or farther,and the shit will hit the fan AFTER the olympics and......

    Who will be blamed for stomping on people`s rights, the province who will blame the city, the city will blame the 5000 private security not under military or municipal authority,Gregor and Gordoh will apoligize after the olympics and launch a feeble investigation that will lead no where.

    That`s the game plan,anyone care to wager a pride bet.

    Cheers-Eyes Wide Open

  • realisticman

    2 years ago

    Tracey's Law

    They all wanted something to ensure that Tracey's immolation wouldn't be repeated but now it's here - they don't want it.

    Is anyone shocked?

  • Bob Watts

    2 years ago

    Helping?

    A disabled homeless man in a wheelchair was killed on the streets last winter, and coleman doesn't address that problem at all.
    Disabled and homeless, these two words don't belong in the same sentence!!!

  • worried

    2 years ago

    Homelessness

    Let's not forget the 457 million dollars Gordo has just allotted for the new retractable roof for B.C. Place. It's so amazing how they seem to come up with millions for sports building roofs (Oympic Skating Oval 20 million extra for roof rebuild) but the cupboard is always bare for affordable housing construction.

  • BC Mary

    2 years ago

    Ask a veteran on Remembrance Day: have we lost our way?

    Recent madness: Fly a bunch of people to Greece ... stay a few days to get torches lit ... fly everybody back to Victoria with torches ... civil servants given time off with pay to bolster the welcoming crowd at the Legislature ... now the salaried group accompanies the run, run, run ... and looks after the runners ... and more people look after them.

    Does any of this make sense in a time of economic crisis? I don't think so.

    It's as if we've slipped into a Mad Max World. Next year at this time, we'll know for sure.

    As a caring society, looking out for another, I think we've lost our way.

  • Jerry Munro

    2 years ago

    Yes, it makes sense... :-), to me.

    "Does any of this make sense in a time of economic crisis? " asks BC Mary, already knowing the answer of course.

    That's okay. That's okay. Take a look at the imagery of all this folks. I mean really look at it, and though it enrages you, savour what is being taught to folks here today.

    Thank you, you right wing dummies. Thank you again. We are about to pick up from where the Great Depression of the 1930s left off. You are doing for me and the rest of the revolutionary left, what we couldn't in a million years achieve for ourselves.

    Keep it up. And drive the lesson home, first to the poorest elements of the working class, helping to mobilize them. Next, as the lessons spread outward; unemployment, displacement, crash diving standards of living, obliterated pensions and decimated security, bringing onboard the broad mainstream of the working class.

    I love it, frankly. Though I am also full of rage; contained, focussed and patient. Not too patient. Just patient enough.

    Bring it on, you rightist fascist goofs.

  • Skywalker

    2 years ago

    Even worse.

    That we spend all these resources on a tradition started by Hitler makes the whole thing so bizarre. Campbell doing what Hitler did? Wow, I really don't want to go there bu I can get the picture out of my mind.

  • Wilfride Laurier

    2 years ago

    Sure.............

    "We'll all know, soon enough, when it's ready for tasting. There won't be any doubt"

    Surrrrre, I am waiting for that general strike. I have only about 40 years left on this earth so it had better hurry up!

  • morechatter

    2 years ago

    One Law deserves another Law that would Arrest all Fat Ministies

    And force them into a fat clinic, you know until the can learn to their big fat mouths shut long enough not to build up all those deadly fat cells that do so many in. Its a real killer, pigging out and someone should write up a law forcing all fat people to get slim and visit a fittness center as the cost on society is enormous.

  • Frank

    2 years ago

    Whatever Sherlock

    "I have only about 40 years left on this earth so it had better hurry up!"

    And you'll spend it getting banned from leftee websites because your only reason to be here is to be a troll.

    Man it must suck to be living your life.

  • Chris Keam

    2 years ago

    The view from not-Mt. Olympus

    Attention lust and Olympic craziness

    For many organizations and individuals, attention is the most precious resource. The pursuit of attention for our ads, or our city or our careers dominates all else.

    How else to explain the silly math that is used to justify Olympic hoopla? Can imagine how little patience people would have for the IOC and their internal politics if they didn't have a show that so many people wanted to watch?

    http://sethgodin.typepad.com/

  • Jerry Munro

    2 years ago

    Troll Fishing...

    "And you'll spend it getting banned from leftee websites because your only reason to be here is to be a troll.

    Man it must suck to be living your life." wrote Frank.

    Whom are certainly easy enough to spot, slithering about here and elsewhere on the net, muttering their,"My Precious. My Precious."

  • Rolf Auer

    2 years ago

    re my earlier statement...

    ...about Canada rapidly becoming a police state. Every time something with a siren starts up or turns off right beside where I live, it just confirms this statement. Further, it seems to lend credence to the surveillance society in which the police state thrives. I know this sounds paranoid, but I'm just telling the truth.

  • alive

    2 years ago

    police make you paranoid

    Rolf Auer
    Let's us not forget that the police is trained to make a spectacle of themselves! They use every opportunity to block off traffic lanes for a simple traffic-ticket.
    Any accident happens they have security-tape around for miles.
    See someone suspiscious on a bridge we promptly close the bridge down, and so on.
    No wonder that we become paranoid about their prescence

  • lynn

    2 years ago

    When Sirens Cease: The Electronic Police State

    The danger now is in the silence, the unseen:

    QUOTE:

    "The usual image of a “police state” includes secret police dragging people out of their homes at night,
    with scenes out of Nazi Germany or Stalin’s USSR. The problem with these images is that they are horribly outdated.

    That’s how things worked during your grandfather’s war –
    that is not how things work now.

    An electronic police state is quiet, even unseen. All of its legal actions are supported by abundant evidence. It looks pristine.

    An electronic police state is characterized by this:

    State use of electronic technologies to record, organize, search and distribute forensic evidence against its citizens.

    The two crucial facts about the information gathered under an electronic police state are these:

    1. It is criminal evidence, ready for use in a trial.

    2. It is gathered universally and silently, and only later organized for use in prosecutions.

    In an Electronic Police State, every surveillance camera recording, every email you send, every Internet site you surf,
    every post you make, every check you write, every credit card swipe, every cell phone ping….are all criminal evidence,
    and they are held in searchable databases,
    for a long, long time.

    Whoever holds this evidence can make you look very, very bad whenever they care enough to do so. You can be prosecuted whenever they feel like it –
    the evidence is already in their database."

    END OF QUOTE

  • lynn

    2 years ago

    "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose..."

    When I first read that piece I quoted from above it made me more angry than afraid....and it still does... this perversion of life itself by the walking dead ruling class - out to control our every breath and that of the world's as well. It is utter cowardice to me, this electronic police state...such an odious mean vision to hold of life.....I almost find these pathetic running-on-empty bastards amusing...

    It will take a real evolution of the human spirit to counter this - the courageous imagination to overcome such a bleak and all-pervasive "death wish"....

    To be honest, I think it will be taken out of human hands - that nature will find its own means of retaliation against the blight holding the reins of power right now.

  • Jerry Munro

    2 years ago

    Retaliation...

    "To be honest, I think it will be taken out of human hands - that nature will find its own means of retaliation against the blight holding the reins of power right now."

    A powerful piece, Lynn.

    And for sure, if "humans" don't come up with the means of "retaliation", nature IS clearly going to.

    I'm still betting on humans, but...

  • Jeffrey J.

    2 years ago

    Telling Article of Increasing State Power

    Not so long ago, this was the 'free market' party, where individual choice was paramount, and people lived (or died) by their choices. Suddenly, those neocon, laissez faire principles which have been trotted out ad nauseam by the Fraser Institute and adherents, are dropped like a stone, and now it's all about the right of the 'nanny state' to kidnap, er, I mean, escort homeless people into a cell, er, I mean, shelter, 'for their own good'.

    Are we allowed to ask a question? Like, what principle is it: laissez faire, free market, responsibility for our own actions, live by the sword, die by the sworn. OR, is it nanny state, overbearing Big Government, telling us what to do, and when to do it.

    OR...is it, sometimes one, sometimes another, and there is no rhyme nor reason. That is the definition of 'arbitrary'. Arbitrary power, exercised for arbitrary reason. In political science, they call this an "authoritarian regime", which is the opposite of free and democratic societies based on the Rule of Law. In WWII, this is what our parents fought against. For what...

    Great article. Great coverage. This is what is known as freedom of the press.

  • crankypants

    2 years ago

    The insanity continues

    Let's for the moment accept Coleman's claim that this plan is not related to the Olympics. Where is the VPD going to get enough police to carry out this new law and also see to their regular duties? It is quite likely that it would take at least an hour to get one homeless person off the street and deliver him or her to a shelter. As these are only temporary shelters, those that do accept a roof over their head for the night will be back on the streets come next morning, and the whole thing starts all over again. The logistics of this plan are flawed, which is consistent with what has been emanating from Victoria since the last election on many fronts.

    Now if the Olympic security are empowered to carry out this law, then we will all know that this law is all about the Olympics and nothing to do about the well-being of the homeless.

    Over to you Mr. Coleman.

  • matken

    2 years ago

    Reasonable force?

    "We never start fights....we just finish them."

    Source:

    Use of Force Theory
    The National Use of Force Model
    Vancouver Police Department Training

    Did the police have some input from 12-year-old boys when they put this manual together?

  • Running Frog

    2 years ago

    Waving not drowning

    Crisis management is now somehow profitable apparently?!

    There must be a huge memorial erected for all the people whom have died in a direct effect of the Olympics. They are far well and beyond that much..
    You could find a list of names at St. Paul's hospital.. They are usually the ones who pick up the dead around downtown Vancouver..

    And the living; deserve dignity. When we can make major money on cancer; there's simply no excuse why all the other things that ail the homeless and vulnerable populations also.

    So where are the funding and jobs? Retraining? Counsellling? And ongoing mentoring and skills enhancement stuff?

    There should also be photos of homeless all over webshots with attached key words; not a single homeless person on this planet should be unaccounted for! Plug up the links on google! Ensure Everyone COUNTS.

  • Orcinus Cedarbough

    2 years ago

    ...

    Reasonable Force? We've heard that one before.

  • samuidave (not verified)

    2 years ago

    Coleman is obese. Why not publicly deal with it?

    Reimer's comments were warranted and logically accurate in the context of this government bill.

    Her apology is simply kowtowing to the PC crowd. The apology is an embarrassment to the forthright and honest approach she took -- for which she should be commended.

    Coleman needs help for his obese state. He refuses to help himself in any meaningful way in this regard. How much in unnecessary, publicly-funded medical expenses is he going to gobble up over the rest of his life to address this problem?

    "I can't stop myself " at the dining table sounds an awful lot like some of the excuses we hear from pedophiles, gamblers, and alcoholics. We force treatment on these people at times, so why not force some treatment on the obese?

  • happy

    2 years ago

    I wouln't open that can of worms samuidave

    After all, who represents the DTES federally?

    Libby Davies

    She doesn't look like she's missed amy meals either.

  • G West

    2 years ago

    Reimer's comment

    Was simply funny - exactly the kind of thing one can hear four nights a week on both the Daily Show and the Colbert Report - poking fun at politicians is fair game and we'd be a better and more critical society if we saw more of it in the media.

    Bring it on!

    Stuffed shirt self-important politicians of every stripe deserve to be dumped on in public every time they do something bizarre, every time they pretend civil liberties and human rights aren't important. Every time the lie about how they ‘care’ for the poor more than they do about their God-almighty image.

    Coleman richly deserved Reimer's comment - the only problem is that she too is a politician and therefore would have been wise to leave the joking to her private life.

    As for the apology, I’m inclined to discount it as well – we all know Coleman deserved the public thrashing he got – and I’m sure Reimer hasn’t changed her opinion one bit…neither have I.

  • samuidave (not verified)

    2 years ago

    opening that can of worms, happy

    is EXACTLY what we should be doing IF politicians are making laws based on others not being responsible for their own safety.

    Coleman wants to draw the line in the sand where it suits him, in this case with the homeless, and not include obese peoples to which his argument equally applies.

  • happy

    2 years ago

    samuidave

    I'm not arguing with you, I agree. Obesity is one of the biggest causes of heart disease which is entirely preventable, like smoking.
    Politicians should walk the walk on these issues which would help immensely with our overburdened health system if people lived a healthier lifestyle. Doctors too. Mine could stand to lose a few.
    I'm no fan of the NDP but I think Layton sets a good example for others. That guy has incredible posture, back as straight as a telephone pole and no beer gut. Kudos

  • margot

    2 years ago

    reminds me of mischief

    This reminds me of mischief charges about 20 years ago, and I hope I've got the term right. Police could pick demonstrators up and haul them off, to please the moms and pops present, and dump them miles away.

    We thought it was devious, but pretty funny at the time.

    Now, I can imagine having a dog and a bit of plastic and a shopping cart, and the police are ordered to pick me up and take me to a shelter. Where, hooray, I don't have to stay. But how, at 3 am in a howling blizzard, do I get back to my treasured dog and few possessions and piece of plastic and blankets I know how to use? I can imagine screaming and screaming and screaming.

    I see this as a ticket to hell, and I see it as someone who served a shift in a shelter to help a friend out. It had a noisy heater, no fresh air, and the staff sat in quite bright light at one end of the hall. There was no coffee, just tea bags in the morning. Apparently there were problems with the bathrooms and sinks. I couldn't have slept there, no matter how tired. Good people on the mats though, pretty good staff, but impossible. Particularly no fresh air. That's what some rich folks with their windows locked have to put up with, and they think everyone should like it like that.

    This ruling is, to me, worse than just cruel: a lot of people simply don't get the comfort and importance of a dog/cat/duck to someone who has lost everything, don't get the need for fresh air, don't get the significance of a few possessions that look like trash to anyone else.

  • sicntired

    2 years ago

    Charles Dickens

    "Once offered a bed and a meal most will choose to stay"If Mr.Coleman is truly psychic you would think he could do better than "using reasonable force if necessary".When I attended Charles Dickens elementary,a very long time ago,we used to hear often that Mr Dickens would never recognize the world as it was then.I think that situation has changed and not for the better.Rich Colman is a character that would fit well in a Dickensian novel.

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