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Pollsters in High Stakes Race, Too

The numbers are all over the place. Who will get to brag about being right?

By Tom Barrett, 7 May 2009, TheTyee.ca

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Accurate polling increasingly hard.

[Editor's note: Polls fresh on The Hook: As various poll results are revealed, Tyee contributing editor Tom Barrett will post them to our political news blog. Check The Hook regularly to keep up to speed in the last days of the 2009 provincial election.]

What's a voter to think when the polls are bouncing up and down like Paula Abdul on Disco Night?

B.C. election polls have put the two main parties as far apart as 17 percentage points and as close as three points.

It could be that a lot of people have been changing their minds a lot. Or it could be that there's something wrong with some of these polls.

With just days left in the campaign, and with a flurry of polls due today and tomorrow, it's worth asking which it is.

Kennedy Stewart, an assistant professor in the Simon Fraser University Graduate Public Policy Program, thinks it's more likely something in the polls.

Some pollsters, he said in an e-mail interview, "are better at selecting random samples than others.

"This is very problematic."

"The whole reason you hire a polling company and do polls is to use your sample to get an accurate snapshot of the population in which you are interested," Stewart said. "I think of it like taking a picture of someone with a camera, but when you get the developed photos back their head or feet are cut out of the portrait."

We won't know until election day who cut whose toes off. But certainly, these are challenging times to be a pollster. People are harder and harder to reach. Some people are less and less inclined to participate in polls. And if the people you aren't reaching are somehow different in their politics than the people you are reaching, you could be in trouble.

The grouchy old men factor

Let's say, for example, that the Grouchy Old Men demographic tends to vote Liberal. But because they're grouchy and they're old and they don't like to talk to strangers, they don't show up in your poll.

There's a good chance you're underestimating the Liberal vote.

Even if you make sure you've got lots of old men in your sample, you could still be off. Maybe you're interviewing a lot of members of the Lonely Old Men Who Will Talk to Anyone Who Phones demographic -- who, let's say for the sake of argument, tend to vote for the New Democrats.

Mario Canseco, of Angus Reid Strategies, said a similar thing has happened in British politics, where telephone pollsters have at times oversampled retired people and homemakers -- people who tend to be at home more, and therefore are easier to reach by phone.

The problem was, these people were also more likely to vote Conservative.

How online pollsters work

YouGov, an online pollster in the U.K., had more accurate results because its samples more accurately reflected the voting population, Canseco said.

Online polling, the methodology used by Reid in its B.C. election polls, is still a new technique. But, said Canseco, "We feel very comfortable with the stuff that we're doing."

Reid points to its track record to back up its claim that online polls are more accurate. In the 2008 federal election, for example, Angus Reid Strategies boasts that it came closer to the final result than seven other competitors.

Canseco pointed out that technological changes have created problems for telephone pollsters. Telephone polls may miss the growing numbers of people who don't have landlines, he said.

This became an issue in the run-up to last year's U.S. elections, Canseco said.

Even the pollsters who are sticking to telephone polls in this campaign use samples drawn from online panels for other polls.

The case for the phone

Evi Mustel heads up the Mustel Group, which called the last B.C. election within a few percentage points. She said about half her company's work is done online these days. In an online poll, a pollster recruits Internet users who are interested in responding to surveys. Samples for individual polls are drawn at random from the resulting panel.

The industry is still trying to determine which is the best method, she said.

"Is it telephone? Is it online? Is it a combination of the two?"

At this point, she said, "we're more comfortable using the telephone methodology for political polling....

"There's gaps in both, without a doubt. Our feeling is there's larger gaps right now in the online polls."

The people who participate in online polls have agreed to opt in, Mustel noted. (This raises the question of whether your panel reflects, in this case, B.C. voters as a whole.)

And not every home has Internet access, she said. Older people tend to be less likely to be online, but they're also the most likely to vote, she said.

As for difficulties reaching people who don't have landlines, Mustel said that research indicates that this group tends to be younger than average. But research also indicates that young people without landlines tend to have the same views as young people with landlines, she said.

So as long as your sample has enough young people, the problems are minimized, Mustel said.

'It's how you use it': Braid of Ipsos Reid

Like Mustel, Ipsos Reid, the other big pollster in this campaign, tends to do about half its polling online, said Ipsos vice-president Kyle Braid.

"It's not a case here that an online methodology or a telephone methodology is necessarily better," he said. "They both have their advantages and they both have their drawbacks."

The most obvious problem with telephone surveys is "people aren't always at home," Braid said. "The refusal rates on telephone surveys are quite high and you have to deal with the issue of people who don't have landlines.

"We've worked with those kinds of surveys for a long enough period that we're able to make adjustments and to be able to adapt to those things. If you look at the most recent federal election in Canada, the telephone pollsters did quite well, and in the most recent U.S. election Ipsos was tops in all of North America."

Online polls, Braid said, "have their own issues."

They are, he said, "generally conducted among a limited group of people. People have to opt in to take part. There are issues with going back to the same people over and over again with multiple surveys and whether that influences their opinions."

As well, as Mustel noted, "there's issues with who's represented online," Braid said.

Online polls tend to under-represent people with less education and lower incomes "and perhaps to a degree, still, older Canadians...."

"So neither methodology is perfect and like any other tool it's how you use it."

Various polls will converge: SFU's Stewart

He said Ipsos tracks its election telephone polls with online polling and the result are "really close."

"At this point, we're still more comfortable using the telephone for the vote preferences numbers," he said. "But that could change anytime over the next few years.... At some point, the phone may not be an option. But I don't think we've reached that point yet."

Kennedy Stewart, the SFU prof, said he expects the results of the last flurry of polls to converge.

"But if one or two companies are off by miles, their reputation will considerably suffer," he said.

"In some ways, watching this race between polling companies has been more exciting than the race between the parties."

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10  Comments:

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  • ROBBINS Sce Research

    3 years ago

    Agree on the grumpy old

    Agree on the grumpy old men--disagree with assumptions about online. You need to 'interview' respondents--you need to hear pauses---nuances--make notes---etc.

    I think the rationale for online comes from difficulty getting folks on phone--and cost of phone calls-particularly long distance--as well as labour costs. I don't think you can do well on the phone with $8.00 an hour callers--now way. You get much better interviews when the people are being paid more--without question. At $8.00--the caller doesn't really give a s**t.

    You can call Vancouver city and have someone picking up the phone--for your pitch pretty consistently--but phone in the interior--and you need to dial 2-3 times the numbers--particularly in the day.

    Interior and Island folks willing to take the phone call--Vancouver--will be more inclined to tell callers to take a hike.

    Pollsters in Bc need to be asked if they called the interior or only phoned lower mainland-and then weighted the poll---you cannot 'weight' polls----BC is three regions--the Island-coastal-- the lower mainland and the north and interior--.

    Our poll coming out will showcase this latter point very well.

  • Martin

    3 years ago

    What about the "shy" factor?

    Good article.

    Perhaps a some of the polling differences (from the final result) are because a certain demographic is shy about its preferences.

    In the UK during the Major and Blair years, pollsters consistently underestimated the Tory vote. Many observers have attributed it to the "Shy Tory" phenomenon -- that there is a demographic that votes a certain way, but is not inclined to tell others about it because those views are considered unfashionable.

    Apparently the same phenomenon has been observed in Quebec, where the federalist/provincial Liberal vote is often underestimated.

    Or perhaps they're not shy at all, just grouchy.

  • Luke Skywalker

    3 years ago

    Mustel and Ipsos...

    Quote:
    Evi Mustel heads up the Mustel Group... said about half her company's work is done online these days.

    Yet Mustel concedes:

    Quote:
    At this point, she said, "we're more comfortable using the telephone methodology for political polling

    Quote:
    Our feeling is there's larger gaps right now in the online polls."

    And Ipsos also confirms that opinion:

    Quote:
    Ipsos Reid, the other big pollster in this campaign, tends to do about half its polling online, said Ipsos vice-president Kyle Braid.

    Quote:
    "At this point, we're still more comfortable using the telephone for the vote preferences numbers," [Braid] said.

    And that certainly summarizes that while both Mustel and Ipsos also utilize "on-line" polling for ~50% of their work, they both feel more comfortable utilizing the telephone for their political party preference question.

    And then there is Angus Reid...

  • Frank

    3 years ago

    Luke

    "And then there is Angus Reid..."

    The guy whose firm did better than any of the others in the most recent election.

  • Rod Smelser

    3 years ago

    Frank - Ask him his Bot number

    Frank, if you're going to have a ocnversation with a PAB employee, I think you first ask them what the Bot # is.

  • Jeffrey J.

    3 years ago

    Enlightening

    How come I learn something new from nearly every Tyee article? Years ago when newspapers were run by journalists, this is what it was like. Now journalists are back (on line mostly) and the public is being educated again.

    Polling has more than one purpose. Conservative regimes seek to manipulate polls to say they're ahead so that people will vote for them. Mainstream media help by trumpeting how the poll shows the Liberals 'will win'. Polls showing the NDP are neck and neck are underreported. So polling is big business, and isn't necessarily about scientific understanding of human behavior. Hopefully, we will continue to learn which polling entities are more objective and follow their results more closely than the others.

  • Krispy

    3 years ago

    Online demographics

    One thing missing in this article is the fact that, when you sign up to participate in these online polls/surveys, you contribute some demographic information at the same time. This allows the online pollsters to more accurately guide their decisions on individuals to invite to participate in their surveys.

    In the past everyone had a land line, and people used to actually answer their phones when called. Then came cell phones, and call display, and call blocking, and voicemail, and internet SKYPE and VOIP, and any number of means of communication.

    The fact is, random telephone surveys no longer accurately reflect the population as a whole, because of consumer choice, telemarkets and the increasing use of voicemail as a way to screen calls.

    By pre-screening participants online through the use of demographic survey information, I believe it is easier to determine a more accurate sampling of public opinion. Plus, you can ask more detailed questions, and drill down into participants' motivations in a much more comprehensive way. (and no, I don't work for a polling firm).

  • ROBBINS Sce Research

    3 years ago

  • mmphosis

    3 years ago

    lies, damn lies, and then there are polls

    Someone called on behalf of the BC Liberal party. I lied to every question asked. If they think I am voting for them, it's none of their busyness.

  • ROBBINS Sce Research

    3 years ago

    A couple of things to

    A couple of things to remember. In Campbell's first term he was brutal and sweet to the rich-with billions in tax cuts. The press underestimated the NDP and ROBBINS picked up on this--.

    From 2005 until 2008 alot of homeowners got a sweet bump on the equity of their home---their largest asset. You can see why ROBBINS Liveable cities surveys respondents gave the BC Liberals a 10 point edge. Only 50% own homes.

    BC Liberal supporters are crowing they are going to win landslide-Campbell's not running with Taylor--Richmond--Tom C--. I don't see the NDP losing ANY seats---I see Campbell losing some--from original 79 as it were.

    If the seats are closer for a BC Liberal win--or the NDP win close---Carole James looks happy because she isn't flying around with any baggage. Campbell's chums are heading for the hills--because of baggage.

    Campbell needs same seats or more--a close win makes his third term misery--baggage, baggage, and baggage. How long can the courts keep the BC Rail a secret? Not forever.

    The mainstream press used the gags on ads to enable a rationale of --no money-- to sanitize the look of the election--for their political partners the BC Liberals.

    This is good--because we know where all the loyalties lie for sure.

    If NDP wins or is really close--the press will be forced to turn on Campbell to shake him lose if Mel isn't already doing that--imagine an BC Liberal win--and Campbell loss--who goes to Olympics? Deputy Premier Barney Fyfe--or Carole James?

    I am hearing rumours the Greens are going to tank---based on no offshore oil and gas--they can always influence NDP--more than they ever could Campbell. His 'religion' on Green is clearly politically motivated--and the Greens know that ultimately Carole James view of the world is more naturally Green---there's Mother's Day--Mother Earth--and momentum.

    The major influence on most polls is the lower mainland--where we have BCL ahead by 7-, these pollster I doubt call up north--otherwise they would find some of the 'odd' things we find on the phone--like the higher number of respondents in Penticton backing aboriginal RR--from a very low number backing it in the lower mainland.

    There are many many people out at UBC and in that region who are seriously pissed with Campbell's government.

    What all the polls show is that Campbell is holding popular vote--most impacted by higher pop in lower mainland--they aren't growing. The fertile ground for growth is only available to BC NDP based on shakey or strategically moving Green--our ROBBINS poll says many have already moved--Ipsos says some have moved--will more go and is there enough time on the clock?

    Does Carole James look like someone who might lose her job? Her campaign looks dynamic--Campbell's looks like set pieces--everyone holding their breath.

    I still like the NDP's chances ---.

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