What do deficits mean?

EDITED FOR CRUDE LANGUAGE. KEEP IT CIVIL, OR PLEASE COMMENT ON A DIFFERENT SITE WHERE EXPLETIVES ARE WELCOMED. HERE THEY AREN'T. -- TYEE MODERATOR

Frank's Crystal Ball

"I'm betting that if the Liberals win they'll make about $3 billion a year in spending cuts."

Don't forget that they'll be eating lots of babies too Frank. They'll also be immediately pulling the plug on anyone that sneezes in a hospital bed.

Reduce Deficits

Here's an innovative way to fight the deficit by cracking-down (so to speak) on the way some new-media operators are avoiding taxes. It's time to 'expose' these scofflaws. The BBC shines some light in this cute exposé.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7993694.stm

Could be worth looking into. More study needed. Maybe a feasibility study grant from the Tax Investigation Department.

crh...

That is a good platform that I am sure will lead to a sweeping victory for the New Democrats. It has been very successful in the past. Worked equally well with Bill Bennett.

Campbellwearsatutu

Wilf gets his lines directly from Christy Clark and Bill Good? Now see, I never listen to CKNW so I didn't know that.

Attack the post, not the poster

Frank, I know you are better than this. Quarry, I expect if from. But you should address the post, not the poster.

Wilf

quarry noticed you posted word for word what Christy Clark says about the NDP, I basically said "huh, look at that".

You're being a little defensive if you think I made a personal attack on you.

As for addressing what Christy Clark said, it wouldn't have mattered what day the NDP released their platform on, she would have criticized both it and the platform itself. I just don't bother with that kind of thing.

Nice to see you promoting the BBC r/man

But don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to cite something from the BBC at the same time you're busy attacking the funding base (which is much smaller on a per capita basis) and the future of the CBC?

Perhaps if you'd spent your formative years in this country you wouldn't be so cavalier about wanting to cashier one of the only institutions that makes it a country and not just a series of banks and gas stations.

Rising to the Bait

Can't we have a single day without a racist or xenophobic attack at those deemed by G West as 'not really Canadians' or Canadians who he considers to be unqualified to speak about anything to do with Canada, no matter how long they have lived in this Country. Must he constantly be permitted to throw slurs at "foreigners" and "Americans". Yesterday it was selling our assets to "foreigners", before, Jeffery Simpson and Margaret Wente are disqualified because they are merely "Americans". Today it's inference and fabricated suppositions.

I don't mind a good discussion but mendacity and nationalistic superiority slurs should be the limit. What a sad man.

Interesting Article

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090411.BCMASON11ART1954/TPStory/Sports

just asking you ED

Ed:
I agree that most people have no idea about who they should vote for, or why.
So this quote of yours: "we have to have these stupid and time and resource wasting election campaigns," is OK as far as it goes, but do you not have a solution for us?

I know of many people who would love " a benificial dictator " and just let him have a go at it.

Do you see that for example Castro is a better choice than a real democracy?

Racist and xenophonbic?

What ARE you talking about?

Wilfred Laurier: Article is very funny!

Wilfred, thanks for bringing up the Gary Mason column, it's one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. The story is based on material from the David Suzuki Foundation and from SFU climate economist Mark Jaccard. Both of these sources are already on record condemning James and the NDP in extremely caustic and abusive language for failing to support Premier Gordon M. Campbell's carbon tax.

So the news value in Mason's piece is identically equal to zero. And yet Mason studiously presents the material as though it were trail-breaking revelations available only from extremely wise men like himself.

I was thinking to myself, when have I read anything this funny before? And all I could think of were Mason's own pieces on David Emerson before and after the 2006 federal election. In the pre-election piece he gave Emerson a slobbering sycophant's buildup. After the election, and the Emerson switch, Mason's column was full of personal hurt at being betrayed, and made a fool of, by Emerson.

Yet at no point did Mason ever criticize the Liberal Party for conning him into the situation in the first place.

Ron

Maybe the Mason piece will be less funny on May 13.

How much do you value your penis, young man?!

re: EDITED FOR CRUDE LANGUAGE. KEEP IT CIVIL, OR PLEASE COMMENT ON A DIFFERENT SITE WHERE EXPLETIVES ARE WELCOMED. HERE THEY AREN'T. -- TYEE MODERATOR

Moderator:

I don't know how many sites there are that actually, as you say, WELCOME expletives--which makes it sound as if their arrival is greeted with warm cheers and eager hopes for more! I know that, for instance, Salon.com (a fairly sophisticated, literate news site) doesn't censor (or too much censor) expletives, and they certainly are used, sometimes in abundance; and the reason may be that they are seen or can be imagined by the eds., as a valid way of most accurately/truthfully expressing oneself. What is civil, respectul, becomes at times at Salon that which is most HONESTLY expressed. Expletives don't necessarily debilitate, and can actually serve to ENCOURAGE good, lively, debate. Their "permission" also suggest a respect for EMOTION as rightful enabler of good thinking--they can add some of the life that constitutes a lively debate, an idea many traditional, regressive sources would deem worse than a colossal joke.

Now I've seen expletives from posters to Tyee, so I'm guessing that's essentially the case here as well. And despite the requests for cookie recipes, or was it favourite holiday films?, this obviously doesn't seem a Good Housekeeping sort of site. But if what you're saying really is please don't go OVERBOARD, because this well can lead to cruel treatment/abuse as well as a marked diminishment in good debate, then I wish you'd said as much. For the way you say it looks to be a practice OF incivility, rudeness--dehumanizaation, even, for you seem to be eager-ready, capital letter emblazoned, to banish those who swear to porn sites or equally base/barren but appropriate "homes" for the wicked. But just in case you really mean it when you say you tolerate NO expletives, you must know that this speaks of a near Victorian assessment of what is civil. You may feel strict propriety serves the times and the Tyee well. But you must espy that since the up-and-coming always seems to articulate themselves with unnerving trespass, it's really hard to imagine swimming well upstream amidst all this.

Please take care in how you yourself express yourself. Sometimes when you announce yourself on the site, you are as severe as God, or a thundering, castrating parent (How is what you said not some 50s, patriarchal, "SO LONG AS YOU LIVE IN MY HOUSE, YOU'LL LIVE UNDER MY RULES!," kind of talk?). And we don't want readers either padding themselves on the back for being good boys and girls who practice "right speech," nor tredding with trepidation, if they suspect they too might stray off the righteous path. All such lessons the potential in the offerings from Tyee's disparate, worthy contributers.

I say all this, because this kind of mod visitation has thundered its way through enough conversations, to draw my concern and alarm.

Alive, Having grown up

Alive,

Having grown up under fascism and lived in 4 countries under every known ideology, I've been fighting against communism and all forms of dictatorship all my adult life.

I'm now fighting against the capitalism, the twin brother of communist state capitalist collectivization , because I can see the same dictatorial signs of oppression and the emergence of another ideologically pure power elite.

The communists had their "Internationale" the capitalists their "globalization" ,both for the same purpose of world control under a dictatorial government. The difference is only in the methodology used: the one with bayonets, the other with the perceived power of imaginary capital.

Where do we have "real democracy", or even the much touted marketplace, with crooks in control ?

The vast majority of the countries in the EU have been forced in by their governments. In Norway and Switzerland, people rejected it by popular vote, against their governments demands.

So did French and Dutch voters reject the EU Constitution, while the governments of other EU countries accepted it without public input and now are trying to force it on their peoples through the backdoor Lisbon Agreement.

In Canada, I fought against the FTA and the NAFTA. The FTA was forced on us by Mulroney with 43% of the votes. Chretien promised to renegotiate the already completed NAFTA under Mulroney, then signed it without any public input, suddenly, in virtual secret. Democracy?

Here in BC, the government has been selling off valuable public properties without even telling the public what was sold and for what, which in my opinion, is a criminal act.

The secretly negotiated TILMA was forced on us without even any Parliamentary debate. Now corporations can sue even against local, municipal zoning laws.

We have the SPP negotiated in secret and promoted by the North American Competitiveness Council, consisting of the 10 most powerful executives, with multimillion salaries, from each of the 3 NAFTA countries, with governments cowering to their demands.

NAFTA damaged all our economies, but destroyed Mexico's,pushing 70% below poverty levels, 50 million existing on less than $3/day, while big business grew more powerful and the GDP higher than ever.

Shall we go on?

If Campbell gets reelected, he'll have dictatorial powers to sell off the whole of BC without any public consultation, or input, while promising Nirvana in his election platform.

This is not democracy, but fascism under a cover name.

Ed Deak.

My use of expletives.........

I will be the first to admit my deleted post was deliberately crude......

I could of said things diffrently,I could of said that Bill Good was perpetrating a radio fraud,staged radio,phoney breaking news,asking once reputable guests to play dishonest games on the radio.
I have no proof of those things,even if I know it to be true.

For example,that shameful statement by Michael Levy.

When fuel was 1.50 a liter,did small business close shop or raise prices?

When bread,milk,cheese prices spike up,did business close or raise prices?

I know that Michael Levy regrets playing along with Bill good,levy backtracked and will never play that game again.
I let Bill Good have it on friday,I called it what is was(staged radio)--I have courage,courage to call people out,no matter the consequences.
My fuse is short,and if we,the people don`t complain then we will get more lies!

The "breaking news" on the cutting ledge was crap,because according to the (Jaccard),the NDP cap n trade will cost 60.000 jobs in 12 years,but what about the BC Liberal cap n trade?
They signed on with several provinces and states!
But breaking news from Jaccard, Liberal cap n trade good--NDP cap n trade bad! What the LLLL is that?
Jaccard is soooooo phoney.....Jaccard states and I quote- "for a carbon tax to be successful it has to be 10 to 20 times the price of our current carbon tax"

So for Jaccards Carbon tax to be successful is to price fuels so people can`t afford them!

What the LLLLLLL, how many jobs will we lose if people stop buying fuels?

Also, Marc Jaccard is saying, we can`t stop big polluters because they will threaten with job losses and charge the customers anyways? So what Jaccard is saying is, just keeping charging the public more and more and more..........

Well as far as I am concerned,any reputation and credibilty that Marc Jaccard has(or had) is gone..........

Marc Jaccard has sold out to political spin/lies/distortions,and I ........

An average joe, could trounce,beat,out debate Marc Jaccard,Jaccard shouldn`t be allowed to teach..........

So if I occasionaly "lose it" I lose for the sake of all people....

Gordon Campbell is a proven liar and a proven law breaker,and Jaccard isn`t fit (mentally) to teach.

What about Castro?

I am sorry Ed, but figthing the windmills solve nothing!

Yes, I am aware of the flaws you describe and more, but if we do not at least try to get good honest people elected, then for sure things will only get worse.

Personally I object to some of the NDP goals, but I am convinced that if nothing else they will represent me better than any other party.

You had no comment on Castro?

Are everybody evil in your mind?

I don't like dictators,

I don't like dictators, especially those who make 4 hour speeches, where everybody must cheer, which includes Castro.

At the same time, from what I hear, the Cuban people have made some good progress in many fields, but I would have preferred to see it happen without the terror of the early Castro regime.

Where did I suggest that "everybody" was evil?

I was talking about dictators of any hue, as I have seen them at work, ruining the lives of and killing millions.

World wars 1 &2 plus the death camps of Stalin, Hitler and Mao have reportedly killed about 130 million people over a period of about 40 years.

Neoclassical market economics, taught in our universities, are killing the same number in 4-5 years, with starvation, bad water, easily curable illnesses. 30,000 children starved to death today and will again tomorrow, while the new aristocracy is raking in billions in profits, propagandizing that helping the helpless is some kind of "socialist conspiracy" and any form of self sufficiency is "inefficient".

The worst enemy of democracy is democracy itself, when people, misled by propaganda and brainwash, permit rulers to emerge, in the name of "freedom", as usual. Like when people are "freed" from having to make choices and have to vote for the appointed candidates,all in the name of democracy.

We're moving in that direction with the huge propaganda machine selling and forcing people to believe that the ongoing
crime wave, in the name of "global competition", is "creating wealth" for the whole world.

Ed Deak.

must be something good?

Sorry to keep this line going, I am trying to see something positive from you Ed.

"Where did I suggest that "everybody" was evil?"
Maybe it is a conclusion I get since nobody and nothing ever gets your praise?

You are not the only person who suffered through the wars, but some of us are still trying to salvage what is left behind after all the destruction.

Hey Ed, just a footnote to

Hey Ed, just a footnote to your comments; 2 countries that I know of that have no debt, are Social Democracy's, and have no trade agreements with other countries, Norway and Switzerland. Hmm, how come they're so rich, and we, with all our resource wealth, are financially broke?

Hey Ed my comment wasn't

Hey Ed my comment wasn't really for you, you most likely know those facts. It was for people who think that the centre of the universe is Vancouver/Victoria and it ends somewhere around Abbotsford.

NORWAY

Norway is an external creditor but it does have trade agreements.

"Norway’s highly liberal trade régime is characterized by nearly completely free trade in industrial goods. Significant trade barriers exist only to protect the agricultural sector, an issue that continues to draw criticism within the WTO framework. Services account for 56% of Norwegian GDP, while another 17% consists of petroleum and natural gas exports, the 3rd largest country share of the world market. Oil and gas make up 60% of exports, with manufactured goods consisting another 20% and fish 4%. [1]

As a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) and the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), Norway is a strong advocate of trade liberalization, pushing for new countries’ admission into the WTO. EFTA has signed trade agreements with countries including Croatia, Chile, Jordan, Macedonia, Mexico, Singapore, Bulgaria, Croatia, Israel, Morocco, the Palestinian Authority, Romania, and Turkey. [1]

Norway has developed a nuanced and moderate position on global trade that simultaneously calls for greater global openness, as well as greater concern for issues such as environmental protection and for the needs of developing countries.

The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is an intergovernmental organisation set up for the promotion of free trade and economic integration to the benefit of its four Member States: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. The Association manages the EFTA Convention; EFTA’s worldwide network of free trade and partnership agreements, and the European Economic Area (EEA) Agreement."

Wilfred Laurier: The joke could be on four million Canadians

Wilfred Laurier
Maybe the Mason piece will be less funny on May 13.

Not at all, Wilfred. The column is funny, period.

But if Mason's propaganda and similar efforts elsewhere prevail, the results on May 12th may be far from funny. In that case, the cruel joke will be on four million Canadians who live in B.C., including all of those who voted for the "winner" based on nothing more substantial that media spin.

@ realisticman

There no way you could have written anything remotely this coherent. So I'm thinking you plagiarised. It seems like you stole this quote from here:

http://www.cid.harvard.edu/cidtrade/gov/norwaygov.html

I seem to recall that you've plagiarised this way in the past.

jimmy

I presume that people are familiar with inverted commas and understand their significance. I generally use them as required to indicate quoting, as I did above. I though it appropriate to advise Van Isle in a factual way that Norway does indeed have a few trade agreements, not none as he/she wrote. Anything wrong?

What about the fish farms?

I can't seem to find the NDP's policies on fish farms and their proven negative effect on the natural salmon runs. Does anyone know if they have a policy on that? Here is a link from the U of A:
http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=8947

@ Roadie

Here is the link to their platform,on page 43 is their salmon strategy,they are giving deadlines to go to a closed containment,and other recomendations from the bi-partisan aquaculture committee.

Here is the link

http://www.bcndp.ca/files/u108/BCNDP09_Platform_2009-_Final-April9_last3.pdf

page 43

UGH

Just read the 44 page pdf of the NDP platform.

It has some good ideas but presents them badly, or, worse, stupidly. The tediousness and padding with pictures of Carole James is annoying, but what's really stupid is the failure to make any arguments. There is merely an assertion that the Liberals haven't properly stewarded, say, the lumber industry. It is fine to say that the NDP would restrict raw logs. But where is the argument that would convince me that there is a market for finished wood? Something along the lines of studies or better yet examples from other jurisdictions about the benefits of this approach.

The NDP really frustrates me. Year after year, their mediocrity, their stoginess, their lack of fire, innovation. Damn it, there is more talent on the Tyee boards than in the whole damn bunch.

They can't just wait for Gregor to get seasoning. There must be SOME talent in the party. Where is it? "Working British Columbians" -- what? That inspires me to do what?

Interesting

The NDP platform is indeed interesting since it promises pretty much everything that any interest group has asked for. Carole has this option because she knows from her internal polling that she is not going to form a government. There is no way any government could deliver on this kind of a wish list. But Carole won't have to and she knows it. This document was produced for an opposition, not a government.

Page 41 really is priceless especially the part about BC adopting California tailpipe emission laws. This is not a provincial mandate in the first place and Canada already mandates Tier 2 Bin 5 for all cars sold here. Cap and trade isn't even beyond the concept stage.

Fiat Lux: I don't like dictators either.

Fiat, usually I enjoy your comments but I have to take you to task on this one:

"I don't like dictators, especially those who make 4 hour speeches, where everybody must cheer, which includes Castro."

That is yellow journalism of the worst kind: make a broad derogatory statement, then include your victim of choice. Castro has not been in power for about two years and nobody has to listen to him. To say that 'everybody must cheer' is to denigrate all the millions who believed (and still believe) in what he was doing. You just never hear it in the MSM. Let's not forget that Castro came to power because he was supported by the vast majority of the Cuban people, who were sick to death of suffering insufferable lives under the heels of (ahem) 'capitalism.' Let's not forget that Cuba was 'embargoed' by the US and others because their capitalist masters knew that a prosperous country with real social programs could not be allowed to succeed if they were to continue to exploit the masses of the world. (remind you of anyone?) That is why no socialist country has ever been successful on the world stage. How much propaganda would you have us imbibe here, fiat?

"At the same time, from what I hear, the Cuban people have made some good progress in many fields, but I would have preferred to see it happen without the terror of the early Castro regime."

Another broad statement with no substantiation. Pure propaganda. Yes, Castor killed or expelled the majority of the capitalist leeches who were sucking his country dry, ask any third world victim of globalisation and international banking what they would do if they had the power. Jamaica is a good example.

"We're moving in that direction with the huge propaganda machine selling and forcing people to believe..."

Yes, I agree. In fact, we're there - most of what we think and believe (our intolerance) was created for us. Welcome to the New Orwellian Century!

Sorry Ed, mostly I agree with you, but to equate Castro with sneaky bastards like Stalin, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Churchill and similar mass murderers just stuck in my craw.

Ronnie Two Shoes

PS To those who would become unhinged and hateful at the above I say, get an education. Start here:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

@Yammer......

One thing I know for sure,if we don`t stop shipping raw logs and buying milled lumber from China and Korea there never will be a demand.......
We will never win the cheap labour battle,and don`t worry about the pictures,no one looks at them,there is no point in peaking to early .........

The fire,the momentum will get rolling,the polling(internal polling) is fantastic for the NDP..........
As for all this Tyee talent,you bet,remember..........

George Bush got elected.....TWICE

All we have to do is get the Talented Wilfred and Rman on our side and it`s all over...............

Cheers-EYES WIDE OPEN

Campbellwearsatutu

"George Bush got elected.....TWICE"

Don't you know that was because nobody on the Democratic side was more talented?

Clearly, Bush, Campbell and Harper won re-election because the Democrats, federal Liberals and provincial NDP were worse?

Its interesting how people that voted for Bush then voted for the Democrats to clean up the mess they themselves asked for.

Same thing happens here.

When Campbell wins

We'll get to listen for four more years how everything that is wrong with the province is because Carol James didn't write better platforms, or pushed for more women in politics or didn't support the increased gas tax.

Personally, I look forward to having that conversation on here in the years ahead. Nothing makes me happier than listening to Liberals whine about the opposition.

@ realisticman

Uh, yeah. Was it not clear from what I wrote? It's simple, really. Quote clearly, and then provide a source. Use the quote tool to do this. For example:

And then provide the source, like this:

http://www.library.ualberta.ca/guides/plagiarism/terminology/index.cfm#plagiarism

Yammer: What kind of seasoning?

Yammer
They can't just wait for Gregor to get seasoning.

What kind of seasoning do you have in mind, Yammer? Gregor has pretty much made it impossible for anyone outside Vancouver to ever support him for provincial leader of the NDP because of his open dissing of Carol James. A case of burning bridges like that is not easily forgotten.

jimmy

No it wasn't and still isn't clear.

As I explained Jimmy c'est ben simple, n'est ce pas?

"Inverted Commas

Another term for quotation marks."

just so you're real happy:
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0038725.html

"in·vert·ed comma (n-vûrtd)
n. Chiefly British
A quotation mark."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/inverted+comma

Are you the moderator who writes the rules Jimmy?

I quoted clearly and, like many journalists, sometimes my sources are confidential. You don't believe in journalistic freedom? Or do you just want to be teacher?

Quotes

You posted uncited material...as is your frequent and annoying wont.

Jimmy's right, it has been noted before, many times.

When the poster is so indolent as to not even remove the orphaned footnote numbers, the fact he's quoting someone else and not providing a citation is not only sloppy, it's pathetic.

Keeping BC Strong..............

For all you rightwingnuts, this is how the Liberals keep BC 'strong':
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/documents/BC_Office_Pubs/bc_2007/bc_coastal_btn.pdf