LUKE.........

Your spinning agin,the number of jobs is......

400.000 jobs,again your math is off,and,.....

130.000 of those jobs have now disappeared,and we will lose 30.000 more by months end,and by the time the election comes around those 400.000 new job totals will be down to 200.000 jobs......

Over 8 years,not to impressive,no-where near Alberta.

Even the NDP created more jobs in the nineties, but who keeping track.

Luke,you and Cambell and Hansen have used that 400.000 figure for the last 2 years,try using the figure.......

200.000 jobs over 8 years.

Maybe you missed this story today

http://www.timescolonist.com/work+Catalyst+Paper+curtails+production+island+mills/1328810/story.html

Just subtract another 800 hundred jobs off that total.

Gary Doer

If you keep publicly professing your love for GD our cuddly premier is going to get jealous Luke.

You should write to Mr Doer and tell him how much you love all of his policies. Because you do like all of them right?

Rivers

How did our good friend "uncivilized engineer" put it? Ah yes, if you return the water to the river within 24 hours its "micro hydro" or something.

Jeez that was funny. I bet the fish and other animals appreciated that line as much as I did.

Kevin Falcon

That's pretty strange QB because I could swear Kevin Falcon has said in the past government can't create jobs at all. Now he sauy they can and will create oodles of them? I wonder which time he was lying?

Falcon.......

Has never stopped fibbing,he was a blatant fibber on feb 8th/2009 on the sean Leslie show when he was asked (on air) if the Macquarie group was connected to the sea to sky upgrade,Falcon answered.......

" no,they are not,well let rack my brain,no,well i am 99% sure they are not"

That is pretty funny considering he is the minister of transportation and,according to my documents,the Macquarie group is the general manager of the project!

What is he hiding?

Could it be that Falcon doesn`t want the public to know the the sea to sky consortium after construction costs gets paid 100 million per year for 25 years for maintenance?

Especialy since the Province of BC is lending the Macquarie group 1.3 billion for the port mann bridge and,you`ll love this,Macquarie will be paying us back out of the 100 million maintenace(yearly fee),so BCers will be paying BCers back the money.
TOO MUCH

I guess Falcon has his reasons to fib

Maybe he doesn`t read his own documents from the ministry of transportation.........

Perhaps this might jog Falcon`s memory

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2005-2009/2007TRAN0037-001008-Attachment1.htm

Macquarie is indeed the general manager of the project/sea to sky/

One must ask themselves,why does nobody know Macquarie is running the sea to sky?

Could one suspect that the cards were already dealt to give Macquarie control of our bridges?

BC LIBERALs reach for all time low......

Class baffoons,here on anti-bullying day.....

Last year on anti-bullying day there was a group photo with all MLAs dressed in pink,well you would never guess what happened this year(actualy,you probably can guess what happened)

I will let Michael Smyth tell you what happened.........Disgusting...

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=a727c7af-5721-49b1-9ef9-1cd2ab189d40

I guess the Liberals are so desperate they will do anything.

Tomorrow's grand boondoggle.

Tomorrow's grand boondoggle.

No Millers or Doers in the BC Liberals

Luke S.
I sure don't see any Gary Doers or Dan Millers within the BC NDP these days.

There are no Gary Doers or Dan Millers in the BC Liberal Party. Instead, there are Bill Bennetts and Kevin Kruegers.

Wilfred Laurier...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Don't forget economic development, employment (engineers, consultants, construction, suppliers, etc.), capital investment, municipal/provincial tax revenue, First Nations financial ownership, union pension fund involvement and financial return for their membership, etc.

Rod Smelser:

You mean the Gary Doers that are favourable to IPP "green energy" purchases by BC Hydro and the Dan Millers that are favourable to offshore natural gas exploration on the northwest coast?

For you Luke.....

To go along with Michael Smyth`s column today,I assume you read about Campbell`s latest on purpose blunder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D59ZeMm2E00

Seems like even the Canwest chain has ....

Noticed that the Campbell goverment has lost it`s way,and as usual,it will be the PUBLIC that pays the price......

Http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Hydro+political+rate+hike/1326435/story.html

Of course they were far more critical of....

The blatant fibbing and misleading the public.
Seems now that Canwest has doubts about the Campbell goverment,the very top of the Campbell goverment!

http://www.timescolonist.com/Sports/Public+betrayed+2010+security/1326434/story.html

Luke

"As in many BC New Democrat party members while in government???"

You disagree with Wilf and I? Nice to see you standing up for NDP MLAs but then you're the loyal party guy.

Times Colonist

"Even given the ideological commitment to balanced budgets, the decision to raise B.C. Hydro rates to increase government revenue is wrong-headed.

The increased taxation -- for that's what it is -- is levied disproportionately and unfairly. Income taxes, for example, are progressive -- those on low or fixed incomes pay at a lower rate. Hydro rate increases have the greatest relative impact on those who can least afford to pay."

Good post from the TC, QB!

Typical Campbell, beat up on the poor.

The Party Of "NO"

"The Party of NO" "The NDP" Is committed to stopping these power projects if elected. Thats what Claire Trevena NDP MLA for North Island stated at the Plutonic Public Consultation meeting at a First Nations Hall in Campbell River on Feb3.

Guesse the NDP won't tollerate First Nations making an economy from their resources.

I remember back in the 90's The NDP commissioned a 400k study on effects of Draining Williston Lake. (Long term plans were?)(secret)

Quarry Bay you state:
the 4 billion dollar TOBA INLET private power destruction is only employing a couple of hundred.

If this is truthfull?...Your source???

Much of the spin/opposition is coming from BC-Creeks.org registered in Germany. They won't disclose how much their getting paid or by whom for the slick "NO" campaign.

The Party of No The BC NDP is really desperate.

JStog

"The Party of No"

As opposed to the party of "destroy everything and do it yesterday"?

"The BC NDP is really desperate."

Desperate in what way? Please explain how I personally benefit from Toba Inlet not being used as the new poster child for America's energy needs?

JStog

I assume you love the tar sands too? Itching to see more of Northern Alberta turned into a moonscape so as to make a few buck?

Good stuff eh.

Ralph Sultan...

Is over 70 years old. That's why he is not running a ministry - it would probably kill him!

I have seen the man speak though - quite a character, very intelligent.

Jstog........

There are currently 900 hundred people working PROVINCE WIDE on ROR projects,that is for the ENTIRE PROVINCE........

Considering there are dozens being worked on right now............

I won`t do your work for you, you want to dispute my figures,supply a link or source.

I bet you can`t,because all you do is spew hatred towards the NDP.

And it`s pretty funny coming from someone who states...........

" It make no differance who runs goverment "

FYI Frank

Frank Said:

"How did our good friend "uncivilized engineer" put it? Ah yes, if you return the water to the river within 24 hours its "micro hydro" or something.

Jeez that was funny. I bet the fish and other animals appreciated that line as much as I did."

Do you work in journalism? You're awfully good at twisting words...I had said that water returned within 24 hours constitutes a run-of-river project because the natural hydrologic condition is not significantly altered.

If anyone who posts on this board actually understood anything about how the proposed hydroelectric facilities are permitted from a water quantity standpoint, you'd quickly realize that fish presence and flows required for channel formation governs the operation of these projects, not the other way around. Most of the alteration to our natural river hydrology was done in the past by our publicly-owned assets.

Further, this thing about run-of-river not producing power when it's needed is pure BS. Projects on the coast have rain-driven hydrology, most of which comes in Nov-Feb when power is needed.

But no one here really cares about whether RoR is good technology or not, it's all a ridiculous political discussion of little merit, led by folks with generally poor understanding of the technical side of the story.

Uncivilized engineer......

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.] there is more than an enviromental argument here, it is also about provincial revenue......

The forestry industry may never recover,if we were going to go down this destructive route don`t you think the profits should flow to the province rather than to American Corporations.....

And what makes you think that cash starved states in the USA are willing to buy our power?
Don`t you think that wind,tidal,solar will be developed in the states/

Mr Pickens could single handedly make BC Power generation obselete.The USA has no money to buy power with,there are thousands of projects in the works down south,like everything Campbell plans he is a day late and a dollar short!

Maybe you should read this opinion.....

http://www2.canada.com/burnabynow/news/community/story.html?id=530cf8c2-8e5d-4d33-9dbd-6a84ee8b1d89

uncivilized engineer

"Do you work in journalism? You're awfully good at twisting words...I had said that water returned within 24 hours constitutes a run-of-river project because the natural hydrologic condition is not significantly altered."

In other words words I paraphrased you correctly.

Me and the fish and the habitat thank you for the yuks.

notgoodwithwords engineer

"Do you work in journalism? You're awfully good at twisting words."

Since you're not good with words I'll try to lend you a hand. In the immortal words of Monty Python its not enough to just use a lot of them, you also have to put them in the right order. Thanks for coming out.

DJT: What about the pay increases?

DJT
RS, I think maybe Dr. Rees was referring to population growth, not strictly economic growth.

What about the pay increases for UBC professors? Will they still go ahead as before? That's the question I asked, do you have an answer?

Right back atcha...

Again Frank, if you understand the 'technical jargon' you'd know the difference between run-of-river and micro-hydro. But I'll spell it out for you anyway. Micro hydro refers to the size of project, while run-of-river refers to the way water is diverted for power. Technically the Peace Canyon project is run-of-river because it doesn't alter the shape of the hydrograph. But who cares about technicalities? Thanks for the grammar lesson BTW.

JStog: You're so original, so creative!

JStog
I remember back in the 90's The NDP commissioned a 400k study on effects of Draining Williston Lake. (Long term plans were?)(secret)

Of course it was secret! That way you cannot provide a source. Right?

I gotta hand it to you, JStor, I have never seen this clever little trick pulled before, you've really got me with this one!

Irony is right

Well said Wilfred Laurier

Irony is right.

But The Party of No The NDP complains about anything.

Frank
Whats Destroyed? Show me where? If 30-80 year old clearcuts are now called Pristeen. Like BUTE INLET. How is that destroyed?

Tar Sands yuk ... Thankfully we don't have that here.
We have clean "White gold" its called WATER, it doesn't pollute.
Brings in tourism and makes power. Protest it by turning your lights off.

The NDP is so desperate for political gain Their PISSING on First Nations who are putting food on their families tables and securing a long term sustainable economy.

The NDP (and supporters) need to screw their heads back in.
Become proactive and IMPROVE the situation, not just say "NO".
Stealing food from the poor is not a good campaign poster.

Quarry
There's no 4 billion$ going into Toba Inlet. Thats a FACT!
Wow and your Honest?? Here http://klahoose.com
Don't piss on the Natives. These are people who Have Families and feelings too.

notgoodwithwords engineer

I said :

"Ah yes, if you return the water to the river within 24 hours its "micro hydro" or something."

And you felt you had been grossly misrepresented because I used the term "micro hydro" instead of "run of river".

Personally I think I paraphrased you quite well considering the time factor.

Did you read QB's link? No doubt you strongly disagree and think he's distorting the facts and have in your possession over a hundred sworn affidavits from well-respected salmon that will argue against Mr Eberts?

"On Nov. 25, Plutonic Power Corp., joining a unit of U.S. corporate giant General Electric, announced plans for 39 power plants in the Toba and Bute inlets area, totalling an outlay of more than $4 billion. We don't need to worry about the impact of this huge powerplay, of course, because it's all going into what is euphemistically dubbed the "Green Power Corridor."

Now, I'm not an expert in these matters, but it seems to me the only basic difference between run-of-river and conventional hydroelectric power projects is that run-of-river does not employ dams and reservoirs. Diversions, 16-kilometre tunnels through mountains, wilderness invaded by powerlines and roads, vast rock-moving work - no problem. But not those pesky power-dams. Somehow that makes it all green and tickety-boo. I hope the fish doomed to be sliced and diced in turbines are aware of that."

Quarry Please...the Burnaby Now?

I'm sorry I should have read this most authoritative source of great information before posting. That letter is a regurgitation of the typical lines from those who oppose any kind of realistic energy development plans. Lots of hearsay, very little factual evidence.

But seriously, in terms of provincial revenue, IPP hydroelectric projects pay land taxes and water rental. They represent new investment money coming into the province, rather than the province making a call pleading for its own debt financing for projects that are much more risky than such things as freeways and rapid transit.

And Hydro pays relatively low rates for freshet power, which Powerex is more than happy to sell to the states on the spot market for exorbinant prices to the suckers down south with their air-con on 24/7.

JStog

"Tar Sands yuk ... Thankfully we don't have that here."

I assume you have sold your car and refused to buy products transported by fossil fuels then?

"We have clean "White gold" its called WATER, it doesn't pollute.
Brings in tourism and makes power. Protest it by turning your lights off."

Brings in tourists? Ah, so "Green power" to you is bringing tourists to look at the construction going on in Bute and Toba inlets? Boy that is "green" of you, I sure don't want to be the one to tell you carbon dioxide comes out your front end and methane out your back end.

"The NDP is so desperate for political gain Their PISSING on First Nations who are putting food on their families tables and securing a long term sustainable economy."

Oh of course because god knows every Canadian history book mentions JStog and the Liberal Party as being the best friends of Canadian natives. After all these years of you and the Liberals helping them out its no wonder they're the wealthiest people in Canada. All those stats about poverty on reserves is just NDP misrepresentation eh.

"The NDP (and supporters) need to screw their heads back in.
Become proactive and IMPROVE the situation, not just say "NO".
Stealing food from the poor is not a good campaign poster."

No wonder you're a big supporter of not raising the minimum wage, wouldn't want to give the poor any food for the NDP to steal.

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

quarry bay...

From your Burnaby Now article:

I know that you are a humourous dude, but quoting someone who is "not an expert" and then a reference to Rafe's band of merry men? :)

I also find it ironic that the same people who oppose economic development, which brings employment and financial benefits to the municipalities and the province...

.... are the same one's screaming about the provincial government not spending enough on social services, health care, education... jobs and employment... etc.

The irony of ironies.

perhaps you missed this story......

In the Vancouver sun about the Toba inlet project....

Here is a few quotes.......

142 bridges---314 kilometers of roads--16 power houses....ya,thats benign....Read it for yourselves,from the Vancouver sun....

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=81b300fe-740a-4055-bf5d-81eed62db682

Irony, thy name is Luke

I think its great that the people who say the economy is doing better than it ever has before are the same ones who say we have to cut back on services for children because we can't afford previous spending anymore.

I think its great that the same people cheering those cutbacks ask for more roads and bridges for themselves.

I think its great that the people who cheer the carbon tax in BC from every rooftop want to provide the power to keep air conditioners in the USA running.

QB

"...involves a record 17 stream diversions, 445 kilometres of transmission lines, 314 km of roads, 142 bridges, 16 power houses, and a substation.

The scale of the proposal in a remote land ruled by grizzlies and wolves and home to all five species of Pacific salmon is setting off alarms about environmental impact and highlighting concerns about the cumulative impact of such projects around B.C."

Didn't you hear QB? All the equipment and buildings will be painted using colours matching the previous landscape. In fact, I think the dyes will be made by actual natives using traditional methods. All of which will really wow all those big-money kayakers to those inlets.

Luke

"So it's OK for Manitoba New Democrats to permit Manitoba Hydro to purchase IPP power and build massive dams for electrical export to the U.S., but it's not OK for the current BC Liberal government to follow suit?"

No, it isn't. But then you're the one constantly professing your love of Gary Doer's Hydro policies and the wish all NDPers were like Gary so I assume your post is directed at yourself?

I guess sometimes one can chase one's tail for so long you end up arguing with yourself. I'm sure you'll be able to sort it out eventually though.

Running scared again eh LUKE.......

What you always do when confronted with a conundrem,you run to Manitoba........

But I have just marked my calender, your latest comment is unbelievable,your now going back to the days of WAC Bennett?

WOW,unfffffing real, what next,are you going to bash WAC because he didn`t put any cat scanners in the hospitals?Or perhaps WAC should been promoting bio-fuels!

You are officially scrapping the slag from the bottom of the BARRELL.....

There are posters here that might stoop that low,I won`t mention them by name but you know who they are.........

But Luke,I mean really, what next, blaming captain Vancouver for not signing treaties 200 hundred years ago.....

WOW,maybe your freind "Spock" should transport you back to "rigel 9"

Talk about KLING-ONS

JStog: Pure party politics and some Native exploitation

JStog
But The Party of No The NDP complains about anything.

The NDP is so desperate for political gain Their PISSING on First Nations ...

The NDP (and supporters) need to screw their heads back in.

Don't piss on the Natives. These are people who Have Families and feelings too.

JStog, do you really think it takes any major effort to see what your game is? Is pure party politics, with a Native band being used as one of your rhetorical weapons. If this particular band's leadership has bought into the Plutonic plan, fine, that's something to think about. Kind of like when Cheif Kim Baird sided with Deltaport.

Frank...

Well, then I suggest that you shouldn't expect anything different from a BC NDP government in regards to micro-hydro IPP's.

In that same vein, another Carole switcharoonee today:

http://www.straight.com/article-203115/ndps-james-warms-port-mann-crossing

Frank, perhaps you are becoming more and more in tune with the Green Party of BC. That's my only other logical conclusion. ;)

Luke

"Well, then I suggest that you shouldn't expect anything different from a BC NDP government in regards to micro-hydro IPP's."

You mean to tell me that if the NDP follows along the same path as Campbell I shouldn't complain?

Nice try.

"perhaps you are becoming more and more in tune with the Green Party of BC. That's my only other logical conclusion."

You've talked before about your family's "labour traditions" and such which is why I assume you won't bring yourself to admit you have more in common with Harper's Conservatives than you did with Dion's Liberals? Your family is none of my business but if you're claiming to be a Liberal just because your family would be disappointed otherwise I understand your position.

Luke........

Back to your usual diversions,the NDP has changed their stance on the bridge,but they are still opposed to the Macquarie group building it.

And,not that is mentioned in the article,but there is no rush,we need to see what happens when the over budget and delayed golden ear bridge is complete,what will happen to traffic patterns.

The NDP do not have access to the Contract(which hasn`t been signed yet)

I will go into more details on the Port Mann,but not here,in a different forumn,perhaps a forumn on transportation.

But she has explicit concerns about having to (bail-out) this project.

To expect anyone to comment on a contract they haven`t seen is a bit much.

After the election when Premier James reviews the "potential contract" we will see.

But going back to WAC Bennett,he had something called a "sober second look"

And I propose to you Luke, there is no sobriety with Gordon Campbell`s goverment,and I am not just talking about drunk with power!

Now back to ROR

Rich white folks slap natives down

Quarry Bay

Thats BUTE INLET. Can't you read?
Don't you know your Geography?
TOBA INLET Is in Klahoose first nations territory.

Bute Inlet is Holmalco First Nations.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/04/05/ChiefLeadsHomalco/

Differant Place, Differant project.
http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/revelstoketimesreview/opinion/39341149.html

Sorry Frank
Not a liberal here. Just open minded.
I prefer: Honest open government.(didn't happen under past NDP) Whats Changed?

Rod Smelser
Call "Chief Brown" of the Klahoose First Nations. Their approval and participation is well documented.
Go to their website. http://klahoose.com

quarry bay...

I don't think ya understand what goes on behind the scenes when these projects are proposed.

Major traffic modeling studies were undertaken prior to the decision made to go forward with the GEB, inclusive of all assumptions relating to future/contemplated expansion of the PMB, SFPR, Hwy 15/10, MHB, PRB, and related highway networks, etc.

The traffic modeling reports are also freely available on the 'net. If the GEB is over-budget (which I doubt) who cares? That's eaten up by the private concessionaire.

But politically speaking, Carole's switcharoonee is political dynamite for the NDP.

Why? The NDP are only likely to retain their three north Surrey safe seats south of the Fraser River, in the first place.

But the NDP enviro grassroots north of the Fraser River and into the Burrard Peninsula will be angered by Carole's flip-flop right through into east Vancouver regarding the highly controversial PMB...

... which now definitely leaves an opening for the BC Green Party. Really.

Carole's switcharoonee on the PMB would have the same political effect if Carole tomorrow publicly supported micro-hydro IPP's.

Why did Carole do it? Because the provincial NDP is desperate to gain some traction with the substantial current Liberal lead. Bad move on her part.

Again, the NDP's enviro grass roots are gonna get really annoyed ... and it leaves a perfect opening for the Green Party. BTW, Jane Sterk will be at the leader's debate differentiating her position from that of the Libs and NDP.

Switcharoonie

Prime Minister Harper and Wally Oppal seem to be at odds over jail time. They have the same voters. I wonder who will get punished?

Fact is, most people don't care and don't follow things so closely that they will dump or support Carole over a bridge.

JStog

So your answer is apathy?

There have been lots of posts on the Tyee that answer your question as to "what's changed?" but if you feel all political parties are the same you're not alone, almost a third of the population won't show up to vote.

Frank...

Rafe Mair and his band of merry men... and here's a whole slew of political organizations opposed to same:

http://gatewaysucks.org/

And here's former NDP transportation critic Chudnovsky opposing same at a mass rally:

http://www.publiceyeonline.com/archives/002301.html

There's a ton of anti-PMB/Gateway stuff all over the 'net. And these people believe that the NDP were going to be their "saviors".

Luke

Would you now support Carole over her switcharoonie? Will you dump Campbell over any of his many flip flops such as deficits, selling of assets, cuts to Children and Families etc?

Nope.

You can beat the drum as if you've just discovered the world's first flip-flop but I bet Carole will get the exact same number of votes on E-Day as she would have otherwise.

If you think everyone but you is "single issue" you're dreaming.

Interesting snarky removal frank.

Frank Said:
No wonder you're a big supporter of not raising the minimum wage, wouldn't want to give the poor any food for the NDP to steal.

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]
When you reply, please use your coloured crayons, 
it fills my day with rainbows and happiness.
[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

I've always supported higher livable wages for everyone. First Nations are getting some solid opportunities now. Thats good. ROR's can be beneficial to everyone. Look at the Columbia River. Kootenay Power is Not BCHydro. Is it destroyed? It powers the Kootenays.

Ralph sultan

Mr civil engineer, you neocons love John McCain. He's 72 and had a much rougher life than our friend Ralph. No there are other reasons Ralph sits out back.

JStog

"ROR's can be beneficial to everyone. Look at the Columbia River"

How many dams on the Columbia River or any other river does there have to be for you to consider it to be destroyed? More than 10? 100?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectric_dams_on_the_Columbia_River

"I've always supported higher livable wages for everyone"

But you won't vote for a party that says it will increase minimum wages.

"First Nations are getting some solid opportunities now"

Were you a fan of Campbell's referendum on native rights too?

seth...

Why do ya call that poster a neo-con? Because he's an engineer in private practice???

Because he apparently also works on micro-hydro projects???

So what does that make you? A Marxist or a Trotskyite?

In any event, a big Obama support here! ;)

Lukey.........

I think your forgetting something,this election,the port mann will not be the issue,but if Campbell wants to campaign on that,have at her.

This election is about BCers against Gordon Campbell.

Voters are not going to vote for a PROVEN LIAR and PROVEN LAW BREAKER because they are unsure of Premier James stance on the port mann.

Jstog......I might have given you imformation about a different ROR,oooh......

Yea,I know, The Toba inlet project isn`t diverting 17 rivers and streams, it`s diverting ,are you ready for it................

39 rivers and streams,more to come

Pirate Power a great business or what!!!

So the Pirates once their project is built albeit at some cost risk, get to sell all the power they can produce to BCHydro at 12 cents a kwh for the most part. BCHydro can't say no we don't need it/want it. Never mind that BCHydro can borrow money at quarter the rate and could have had SNC Lavelin or Bechtel built the projects for 3 to 6 cents a kwh.

So in low water or high power demand years instead of importing nuclear power at a few cents a kwh, Hydro must buy Pirate at 12. In high water low demand years it must buy Pirate power at 12 cents and sell it for a few pennies on the US export market.

Buy some politicians with campaign donations and get contracts that a six grade home economics student would think were idiocy.

These are tens of billions in taxpayers losses folks. Makes the fast ferry fiasco look like a bad day at the race track.

quarry bay...

You seem to forget that the NDP is a coalition of special interest groups and the enviro, anti-freeway, anti-PMB special interest group is very strong on the Burrard Peninsula. You will understand what I mean as May 12, 2009 approaches.

Forget about that for a moment though.

Let's have a further analysis of election 2005 v. 2009, shall we?

In May 2005, by far, the number one issue in BC was health care. Obviously the NDP does better on that issue than the Libs.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/top_issues2005.html

Today, by far, the number one issue in BC is the economy. Obviously the Liberals do much better on that issue than the NDP.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/top_issues.html

In 2005, El Gordo's disapproval rating was 10% higher than his approval ratings.

Today, those figures are roughly reversed:

http://www.mustelgroup.com/bc_premier.html

In 2005, James' approval rating was roughly 30% greater than her disapproval rating. Today, that margin has dropped to roughly 5%.

In fact, James' disapproval rating has been on a continuous upward trend since May, 2005.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/bc_opp_leader.html

Even El Gordo now does better than James in that regard.

Is it any wonder then that the Liberals now lead the NDP by a 16% margin????

Toba inlet/bute inlet/neighbors

http://www.cope378.ca/tags/toba-inlet

Luke

"You seem to forget that the NDP is a coalition of special interest groups"

What? But you said on another thread that all NDPers were the same, right across Canada. Were you fibbing then or now?

"the number one issue in BC was health care. Obviously the NDP does better on that issue than the Libs."

Why would that be pray tell?

"Today, by far, the number one issue in BC is the economy. Obviously the Liberals do much better on that issue than the NDP."

And yet according to Marc Lee there's no reason why that would be. But then that's what makes BCers so much fun to play with.

Vote for who?

Rod Smelser
There's some others too.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/frbc1996/FRBC1996MR27.pdf

Frank said

>But you won't vote for a party that says it will increase minimum wages.<
Its a matter of credibility.
Which evil party to Choose?
or Just stay home and say "None Of The Above".

Frank said
>Were you a fan of Campbell's referendum on native rights too?<

I'm a fan of Livable Wages for natives too. But your not? Why?

Quarry Bay

Fact: Cope378 has a little conflict here!

The environment

Will Plutonic and the others be buying carbon offsets in Maple Ridge for all the destruction from their roads, dams, tunnels, bridges and so on?

Lukey........

I am not interested in the MUSTY POLL...

I am not interested in the Liberal MLA from west vancouver`s business partners polling outfit.

Talk to me after the Angus reid poll comes out, Luke,if your bosses actually believed that poll(lol) you wouldn`t have a job!

The ecomomy you say luke.........

Well lets go back to when you bet me 10.000.00$ on the bi-election last fall...

What happened 2 weeks before the bi-election............

Breaking news,all the global news station around the province are giving Gordon Campbell a 15 minute news/press conference at 6.00 pm to address the people of BC......

And what was the press conference about? Answer The ECONOMY......

Campbell`s 10 point plan/tax deferals,assessments/recall the legislature/fast track infrastructure spending/create a panel of experts.....

Campbell told the public how bad things were getting but he has plans to keep us strong. (the Mustel poll at that time had 40% of the people concerned about the economy,almost the sameas today)

And what happened 1 week later at the bi-election with Campbell leading in the polls?

He got blown out of the ffffinnng water by two rookies NDPERS running against 2 of Gordon Campbell`s stars!

WOW/UNREAL--Two youngster Herbert Spencer and Jenn Mcginn blasted Arther Griffiths and the Cancer adminstrator(whats her name)

What happened,what happened with the polls?...

Gordon Campbell who had a 100 million dollar ad campaign running non-stop since last year,had a province wide PRIME TIME 15 minute uninterupted news conference 1 week before the bi-election and a week later gone his socks blown off!

GAME

SET

MATCH

Cheers

Quarry bay

Frank...

Get your facts straight man. ;)

Hardcore NDP members across Canada support each other. Dave Barrett goes to Alberta, during last year's election campaign, to publicly assist the NDP.

NDP party members across Canada will descend upon BC to assist the NDP in the May, 2009 election campaign. Get the drift? ;)

What did I state earlier? The CCPA is as useless as the Fraser Institute.

And to further add to that, former BC NDP cabinet minister Bill Barlee had these thoughts about the NDP government back in the 1990's:

JStog

"or Just stay home and say "None Of The Above". "

Many people will do just that I'm sure. But I'm just not ready to turn my back on society yet.

Jstog.......

No offence my freind but you are wayyyyy out of your league,I can chew you up and spit you out without getting out of bed!

As a matter of fact,everyone here can,including my dear freind Luke.

You offer up nothing/zip/zilch/nada, and you want to use some under-funded native bands who had some cash waved in front of them, YA,

And I will admit that all goverments have not played square with native bands,but I would expect any thirsty person to want to drink.

JStog--Rod Smelser has already put you in your place,talk to Luke,maybe he can give you some advice.......

After all,Luke is pretty good most of the time,until he gets rattled,then he jumps around in a panick with polls/Manitoba/WAC Bennett/Star trek/Spock/rigal 9/ Straw men look out,someone might be stealing your brains,well Jstog,we aren`t in Kansas anymore,so click your heels three times and say.........

"There`s no place like home,there`s no place like home,there`s no place like home

Cheers

Quarry bay

Luke

"What did I state earlier? The CCPA is as useless as the Fraser Institute. "

So which of his stats are wrong and full of Stalinist propaganda? Or is it you just don't agree with the conclusion?

"Hardcore NDP members"

So there's good NDP like Doer and evil hardcore NDP like me...

Okay, so in future you will of course remember your own words I'm sure before stating all NDPers agree with each other again.

Now why was it the NDP is preferred on issues like healthcare? You forgotto reply to that one.

"And to further add to that, former BC NDP cabinet minister Bill Barlee had these thoughts about the NDP government back in the 1990's:"

You would have to provide the entire thing for me to know what his issues were. After all, many in the NDP disagreed with things like the Olympics and welfare cuts.

Unlike you guys on the Right we don't all still vote for our party when it ticks us off.

LOL

"Unlike you guys on the Right we don't all still vote for our party when it ticks us off."

Oh man, I forgot, nothing Campbell could ever do would tick you guys off. Please excuse my faux pas.

Frank...

That's almost akin to me asking you, what stats of the Fraser Institute are wrong or is it full of fascist propaganda.

Both are ideological organizations and are useless, IMHO.

Wrong. The Gary Doers, the Dan Miller's, the Mike Harcourt's are moderate, pragmatic, realistic, small "l" liberals.

And then there is the ideological wing.

Oh come on Frank. It's called politics 101. Social issues are the NDP's bailiwick and economic/fiscal issues are the Liberal's bailiwick.

Sorry about that. Barlee was known to be on the right of the provincial NDP, made some relationships with the BC Libs and then later ran for the federal Libs.

He was, in fact, one of Harcourt's early surprise moderate political catches.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Bill_Barlee

Well, I was a provincial Liberal voter in 1991 under Gordon Wilson, when the incumbent Socreds were seeking re-election, and was happy to see Harcourt gain power. That happiness soured by spring, 1993, however.

Luke

"Wrong. The Gary Doers, the Dan Miller's, the Mike Harcourt's are moderate, pragmatic, realistic, small "l" liberals."

Actually I was right about how you see it. Many NDPers in the West are federal Liberals which have no provincial alternative. But Doer had a choice, the Libs weren't dead in Manitoba yet he chose to join the NDP.

"That's almost akin to me asking you, what stats of the Fraser Institute are wrong or is it full of fascist propaganda."

By all means do so.

"Oh come on Frank. It's called politics 101. Social issues are the NDP's bailiwick and economic/fiscal issues are the Liberal's bailiwick."

Would that be due to that historical thingie?

"Well, I was a provincial Liberal voter in 1991 under Gordon Wilson, when the incumbent Socreds were seeking re-election, and was happy to see Harcourt gain power."

Good for you. You'll be happy to know I wrote oodles of letters to the editor calling Clark's Olympics a boondoggle and comparing it to Roman circuses.

Luke S. But the NDP enviro

Luke S.
But the NDP enviro grassroots north of the Fraser River and into the Burrard Peninsula will be angered by Carole's flip-flop right through into east Vancouver regarding the highly controversial PMB...

You're right about Chudnovsky and company, and to some degree Gregor Robertson took the same view.

It's part of a clever manipulation organized by Liberal controlled ENGOs. The same ENGOs who then started singing Campbell and Dion's praises over carbon tax/Green Shift. And have now abandoned that because the Americans are going for cap and trade.

Luke S. Bill Barlee as in Gwen Barlee?

Luke S.
And to further add to that, former BC NDP cabinet minister Bill Barlee had these thoughts about the NDP government back in the 1990's:

Quote:
[Barlee] became increasingly concerned about the negative economic and political impact the NDP administration was having on the province of British Columbia.

Is that the same Bill Barlee whose daughter Gwen is now the head of the WCWC?

I think Barlee soured on Glen Clark for the same reasons his staffers did. After Barlee lost in the 1996 election to Barisoff, there was no offer of support coming from Premier Clark. They got mad and bolted to the Liberals.

thanks Uncivilized Engineer

for bringing some reason to this board.

Chew it Quarry

Quarry Bay

What league? I live in BC.

Wow Offense taken.
Thats an exemplary statement of whats wrong with the NDP today. Not a Bully eh!

The Native bands are people with rights. You know Human Rights?

And you'd steal it from them? Nice NDP'r

Rod Smelser hasn't put me anywhere. I posted a link to the info. Can't you read?And I'm still here.

Wow is all i can say.or Grow up, were talking ROR here.
I live in BC. What Planet you from?
Have you been to either Bute Inlet or Williston lake?

Cheers have a nice chew.

JStog

Enjoy the movie Jstog........

Your just a hate monger,and everyone knows who the bully is,and he will be out of a job come may13/2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D59ZeMm2E00

And enjoy the column.......

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=a727caf-5721-49b1-9ef9-1cd2ab189d40

Michael Smyth

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=a727c7af-5721-49b1-9ef9-1cd2ab189d40

Oh by the way,I live on the sunshine coast,and I have boated all over the coast and flown,my dad was a pilot.......

but if you would like to meet me on the sunshine coast somewhere,just name the time and place,how about 7.00 pm saturday at Gilligans pub in sechelt,(we can TALK up close and personal)

Jstog......

you quoted me as saying

" and you`d steal it from them"

If you want to quote me,get it straight.

And I am not a NDPer, I am ANTI-CAMPBELL-The province is anti-Campbell

And speaking of syealing....280.000 thousand hecters of forset land illegally given away to Campbell campaign doners.

The province got censured just last month and there was another STAY of proceedings just yesterday on another land giveawy--The entire court system in BC is loaded with cases against Campbell,.....

BC Rail/Cambie merchants/Heu 100 million dollar case Campbell lost/ KITIMAT/first nations against goverment of BC and on and on.......

So don`t you give your righteous Liberal bullshit,no other goverment of BC has ever been sued so much.....

Jstog,I getting a ferry to town tommorrow(vancouver) morning so if sechelt isn`t convenient we can meet in town.

Again,we can talk up close and personal

Campbell goverment censured......

for not consulting first nations in massive illegal land giveaway......

This will cost millions to rectify this law suit

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=c54a28e2-9157-4072-9eeb-1fec369cbb8a

Peter Dimitrov: you are 100% correct Bill...

Peter, do you think the end of growth should come before or after the next round of pay increases for UBC professors?

Luke

"In any event, a big Obama support here! ;)"

So if Obama supports higher taxes you will too?

Since you're a big fan of Obama's I knew you'd want to see this from the NY Times :

"To combat deficits, Mr. Obama proposes to let Mr. Bush’s high-end tax cuts expire in 2011, raising the top rate from 35 percent to as high as 39.6 percent. He would also impose a 20 percent rate on investment income, up from the current super-low 15 percent. And he would reinstate a tax provision enacted by the first President Bush, but undone by his son, that limited tax write-offs by high-income taxpayers for dependents and other expenses, like mortgage interest on vacation homes.

The proposal also calls for taxing private equity partners just like the rest of us. Under current law, multimillionaire buyout mavens pay tax on much of their income at about the lowest rates in the tax code. Under the Obama budget, their earnings would lose favored status and be taxed as the ordinary income of ordinary mortals."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/opinion/27fri1.html?ref=opinion

obama supporters

How can somebody support a Neocon like Gordon Campbell tied as he is to the discredited extreme right wing policies of Sweet Stevey Harper and George Bush and yet claim to be an Obama supporter.

Yet a huge majority of BC voters claim support for Obama yet plan on voting for Campbell or Green (same thing). A province of low information voters is the best I can come up with. Go figger!!!

obama supporters

How can somebody support a Neocon like Gordon Campbell tied as he is to the discredited extreme right wing policies of Sweet Stevey Harper and George Bush and yet claim to be an Obama supporter.

Yet a huge majority of BC voters claim support for Obama yet plan on voting for Campbell or Green (same thing). A province of low information voters is the best I can come up with. Go figger!!!

Campbell Liberals even bully each other....

Your FIRED,liberal candigate in Oliver gets FIRED by the party,they won`t even return his emails,his sin.......

He wrote a letter to the editor 3 years ago that said...."Gordon Campbell,your FIRED.....

here is the story

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=b890c0c0-22f4-4236-8b0b-c5028ef4a2ca

Vaughn Palmer .........

explains how the NDP are going to thump the liberals in Burnaby.......

I guess Vaughn Palmer hasn`t been reading those polls.

Luke,don`t argue with me,take it up with Vaughn,I agree with most of what Vaughn has to say in this column,except his read on any island ridings being in play.........

here`s the link

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=eb1447c4-3083-48cb-a8d9-f7de6de50f39

html test

Example

The above text should be bold; this should be red.

Isn't interesting

Luke and JStog know how to format for color, boldness, itallics and indentation in the Tyee comments. The style, content and formatting of their answers is so similar that one could think they are working in the same room - for the same boss. I haven't figured out how to format this text the way they do, and I've been working with computers programming languages and text for over 30 years.

Isn't it interesting that the P3 for the Port Mann bridge has failed. Yep these neo-Liberals and their private sector buddies really know how to get things done. The only things they are good at are photo ops, media manipulation and lying to the public.

These ROR (Run of River) projects are misnamed. They are not run of river, they are diversion of river. There is much destruction of the ecosystems in building these power plants, the roads that service them and the utility poles and towers that take the electricity away. There are sao many smarter and easy ways to generate heat and electricity. We must always remember that a good portion of the electrical energy consumed in the lower mainland is for inefficient baseboard electric heat. Geothermal heat, solar hot water heating and sewage heat recovery should be developed in the Lower Mainland before we start killing more salmon and the forests that are dependent upon those noble fish. It is the Lower Mainlanders who need energy; let them find it in the soil. The earth is a furnace and the heat is there for the taking for all those who have the intelligence to dig/drill for it.

freebear: Can you do with less? How much less???

freebear
I think a steady state economy rather than a growth or die model is possible. To me that would be sustainable development.

No doubt an economy without growth is possible. On a world wide basis, that means no improvement in living standards for the world's developing nations, and a complete halt to the strong growth rates that have been experienced in China, India and the Far East. It also means a complete halt to any incrases in output in South and Central America and in Africa. On a national basis it means no increases in living standards for the poor, unless there is to be significant redistribution affecting everyone who is earning an above average income.

It is possible. But is it politically possible, and is it a worthy goal?

We must do with less.

Can we handle that consumers?

You address this demand to a collective group of others. But what about yourself? How much of your income are you prepared to surrender for the common good? How much less consumption can you experience without feeling harmed?

Sharing is Good...

SIG, your typical nonsensical commentary. Nothing constructive to add to a conversation but drivel.

Aren't you the same guy who wants to invest $50,000 in James Bonds - 007 Series, but ya won't share the same funds with the poor?

I'd bet that I contribute more in one year to the less fortunate than you have in your entire lifetime. An ideological hypocrite... I've seen 'em before - they're a dime a dozen.

BTW, I'm my own boss, but you certainly would never be able to figure that out on your own. ;)

That's extremely doubtful. So you're now sayin' that you're inept?

Now you're tryin' to be a comedian? 16 years ago in 1993 the NDP stated that they would twin the PMB. What happened? Nothin'.

Then inept Carole states a few years back "It's the wrong bridge at the wrong time". Then yesterday Carole does her switcharoonee and now agrees with Falcon's 10-lane gargantula. Too funny.

Then today the NDP's Bruce Ralston complains that the PMB is now going to be government funded and not P-3 funded and the government will take on the risk of traffic flow and toll revenue thereto.

OTOH, today the NDP's Karagianis states that it's great that it's goin' to be government funded.

And the NDP farce continues.

I'd bet 10 years from now you will still wonder why the NDP is in opposition. 'Cause you'll never get it. :)

Meet Klahoose

SharingIsGood Meet Klahoose

Must have hit a nerve, Eh Luke?

You sound a bit cranky, Luke. What's the matter; are your Liberal party's internal polls getting you down? With failed policies and cover-ups stacking up, I would be rather depressed and angry, myself. In grief counseling, I believe they call this the blaming/angering phase. It comes right after denial. If I were stuck on that Liberal train to nowhere I'd be feeling shame next.

Luke said:
"SIG, your typical nonsensical commentary. Nothing constructive to add to a conversation but drivel."

Actually, Luke, I thought my paragraph about using geothermal and solar hot water added much to the conversation. It was the bulk of my last post.

RE NDP Environmental Bonds:
Yes, I'll invest $50,000 in provincial environmental bonds. I am sure I can roll some RRSPs into those bonds. I see it as win-win, don't you. I save money for my retirement so I won't be a burden on my family or the BC government. The BC government will get cheap cash from willing citizens and use that cash to invest in green, sustainable BC jobs. The money stays in the province. Isn't that better than buying ferries from foreigners, having our medical records and school records being contracted out to outsiders, building a P3 Olympic villiage through a usurious New York hdge fund, very nearly giving the rights to our rivers to foreign investors, selling our railway to outsiders? The list Liberal boondoggles, sell-offs and outsourcing foolishness is nearly as long as the number decisions they have made with our money and our resources.

Luke says:
"I'd bet that I contribute more in one year to the less fortunate than you have in your entire lifetime. An ideological hypocrite... I've seen 'em before - they're a dime a dozen."

Luke, you know not to whom you are talking. If you contribute (including volunteering your personal time) more than I do, I would be impressed, and I would be most thankful to you. I donate time (about 50 hours per month) and money to disadvantaged children and their families. My contributions have the added value of my not claiming most of them on my income taxes.

Luke's nerve, continued

Luke said:
"BTW, I'm my own boss, but you certainly would never be able to figure that out on your own. ;)"

I've been self-employed for years, Luke. I have more than one way of earning a living. I have 2 professions. In terms of your doubtin my work with computers. The first computer I used professionally was in 1975. In 1977, I began programming in Fortran. I built my own XT clone in 1986, about 5 years after IBM's PCs first came on the market. I have had my own computers ever since. I am not a web-page guru, but I'll keep digging; I will find out how you and your Liberal buddies format and add images/links.

RE: Port Mann bridge, Liberal government/P3 collapse:

I was making commentary on the (once again) failed Campbell/Liberal/Reform ideology of privatizing virtually everything but pensions and media monitors. Luke, I never said something shouldn't be done about the bridge. What I have always said was that rapid low-polluting, commuter rail should be developed first.

You are right, in 1993, someone in the NDP said something should be done about the bridge. At that time, the NDP were forced to back off of the bridge project and be prudent with what little money BC had. There was nothing extra in the coffers due to both, Socred budget-fudging and the collapse of the Asian markets. The NDP took care of BC citizens first, put the financial house in order, second, and then handed a smooth running BC over to the Liberals. The Liberals have had 7 years of the greatest ever world market demand for BC products and commodities. We have nothing to show for that demand but raped old-growth forests (sold by the whole log!), dead and dying wild salmon, the highest child poverty, increased crime, gambling, alcohol consumption and drug addiction, 1/2 billion in over-runs on the Convention Centre, a sinking skating oval in Richmond, our largest city in decay, 20+ billion in future debt and a 7 billion dollar Olympic party for wealthy people. During that boom time we have had huge cutbacks to education, environment, forests, and children and their families. We have had huge spending on a road to Whistler, and we still have gotten no bridge, we still have more people driving cars instead of taking public transportation. The Liberal record on the Port Mann Bridge and public transportation in general is a terrible joke; the people of BC are not laughing!

JStog

Gotta hand it to you and the other boys at Plutonic Power, the Liberal Party and GE, those video feeds are slick! I have never doubted GE's ability to advertize their products/ventures. The last I read, they were still the world's largest corporation. Nice CCR drug smoking/taking feel-good sound-bite background on the second video. Yes, you will get all the boomers feeling reminiscent for a happier, more care-free, less-troubled time. Of course that song was written about running away from reality while the race riots were raging and the anti-Vietnam demonstrations were going on. It is more than a little ironic that that song was chosen I would say.

I didn't see commentary anywhere in the videos that informs the viewers that General Electric Energy Financial Services is to recieve the Lion's share (60%, I believe) of the profits for having 49% of the stock in the company. I did see lots of salmon habitat being altered forever and one of the few nearly pristine waterways left on this planet in the process of being exploited. I am glad some Klahoose people are receiving training to be cooks in the camp. I wonder how many of Klahoose people sit on Plutonic Power's board of directors? I wonder how much Plutonic Power stock the Klahoose people have received for this alterring of their traditional land and water?

thanks, lynn

That superfund info on G.E. was a big black exclamation point to the thread.

Sig........

Don`t worry about Jstog or Luke,the Liberals are desperate,even Vaughn Palmer and Keith Baldrey on the cutting ledge were hedging on the upcoming election.

Sig,the port mann bridge isn`t an election winner,too many questions?

Like how is it possible for Kiewit/flatiron to guarantee a price for construction when it is being funded by the tax-payer?
It makes the whole P3 argument a lie,transfering risk,no,P3s tranfers wealth from the tax-payers but the risk remains with the tax-payer.

Falcon now states "The project is 2.2 billion dollars,we removed the financing part of the contract,the auditor general says it is the best financial way to go for the province,it will save tax-payers money"

So now we have Falcon ADMITTING that it`s cheaper for the tax-payer to fund projects with conventional goverment borrowing and financing!

In other words,Falcon has admitted that Gordon Campbell`s goverment was and is still prepared to spend hundreds of millions EXTRA TO PUSH HIS P3 AGENDA.

The evergreen line is still 200 million short and Falcon is looking for a p3 partner to come up with money,they won`t find one!
People in Coquitlam know they are getting hoodwinked again!

Nobody believes a word out of Falcon`s mouth.

The roof at BC Place,another election loser,BCers don`t care about that roof,more important priorities,these projects are going to have the reverse effect,it will alienate rural B.C.

5 billion more in debt for Vancouver/Gvrd

Meanwhile Campbell is going to wander around the province handing out some crumbs,and the muni`s are going to have to borrow money to access the crumbs.

Campbell`s read on the voters is out of whack,the election is over.

The final nail in Campbell`s political coffin was the Burnaby prison,Campbell stated that even if Burnaby city council changes the zoning to block the prison he will ram it through anyways(bill 30,I think)
This was a liberal bill,they rammed through the legislature that takes away all municipal powers!

Every town now knows that no matter what the local concerns are about any project that Campbell will shove down their throat anyways!
As for Luke and Jstog,ya,they are working together,they were sent to try and stop us posters,we got their attention....

They are running scared,it`s all good Sig,.....

" They don`t shoot dead duck "

Quarry bay

Luke S. As usual, the PAB provides no sources

Then inept Carole states a few years back "It's the wrong bridge at the wrong time". Then yesterday Carole does her switcharoonee and now agrees with Falcon's 10-lane gargantula. Too funny.

Then today the NDP's Bruce Ralston complains that the PMB is now going to be government funded and not P-3 funded and the government will take on the risk of traffic flow and toll revenue thereto.

OTOH, today the NDP's Karagianis states that it's great that it's goin' to be government funded.

Refusing to provide any sources allows one to intentionally distort and mislead.

The NDP Govt's plan to twin Port Mann came out in 1995

SharingIsGood
RE: Port Mann bridge, Liberal government/P3 collapse:

I was making commentary on the (once again) failed Campbell/Liberal/Reform ideology of privatizing virtually everything but pensions and media monitors. Luke, I never said something shouldn't be done about the bridge. What I have always said was that rapid low-polluting, commuter rail should be developed first.

You are right, in 1993, someone in the NDP said something should be done about the bridge. At that time, the NDP were forced to back off of the bridge project and be prudent with what little money BC had.

The NDP Govt issued a plan in 1995 that called for twinning the Port Mann Bridge and widening Hwy 1. There was no schedule included. The document was called "Going Places: Transportation for British Columbians", and on page 25 there is the following:

On the subject of commuter rail, why is the West Coast Express not included in any way in Premier Gordon M. Campbell's $14 billion transit scheme, not included in any of the pronouncements by Translink or Metro Van, and not favoured by any of the so-called transit advocates who work for the ENGOs or for the UBC School of Community and Regional Planning. The answer is simple. It's seen as too good a service for the second class suburbanites who inhabit the NE sector.

First mention from hansard

Regarding the Twinning of the Port Mann Bridge, it was discussed in the Legislature in 1003, but as the text around it states, there were many issues at the time and increasing capacity on the bridge whould just move the bottleneck further down the line. That is why the NDP began the work by adding extra lanes further into the city first.

From: DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
(Hansard) TUESDAY, JUNE 15, 1993
Morning Sitting
Volume 11, Number 4
Page 7226

"Hon. A. Charbonneau: The member has really hit the goldmine on this one. The congestion, the safety aspects and the delays coming out of the northeast suburbs onto the Trans-Canada are severe, and part of that is the connection from the Mary Hill bypass onto 401.

There is no band-aid solution possible. The 401 should be expanded to six lanes plus two HOV lanes, and we need to twin the Port Mann Bridge. The Cape Horn interchange needs to be reworked in order to facilitate that and the more direct connections onto the Mary Hill bypass. All of those come somewhat as a package, and they have to be done in a certain sequence to have the investment make any sense. As you have probably guessed by this time, we're up into the half-billion range to accomplish that.

We are doing design work on the Mary Hill bypass. I believe the design work for the present choke at the underpass is virtually complete, and property acquisition is also advanced. I have pointed out, however, that solving that particular bottleneck will to some degree just move the bottleneck further down the road. That will resolve it at the underpass, but it will still exist at the point where traffic is trying to get onto 401."

erratum

"1003" should read 1993. There I was, typing in the dark again.

Mike Bocking's PAB Officer...

Rod Smelser:

Sources are not applicable when the same is already popular culture within the public realm.

That's akin to me sourcing Neil Armstrong's:

But to re-iterate Carole James' "Neil Armstrong" quote, which was even part of a Tyee story:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/10/15/TruthSquad/

Even many lefties at the website Babble, seem to have some sort of a consensus on the following topic discussed therein:

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/bc-alberta-saskatchewan/bc-ndp-will-get-whacked-upcoming-may-2009-election

Jstog.....

A picture is worth a thousand words,how many more have ya got,where are your videos of the NDP stealing first nations food?
I hope you have more Plutonic propriatory videos,because you have failed with your hate filled words,your plutonic roots have been exposed,but you have also exposed how DESPERATE you are,reminds me of the movie "On sacred ground" with Stephen sagal.
Guess what happens to you Jstog, you drown in your dirty oil.

"An ill wind blows good fortune to someone"

So stomp your feet,play your commercials it will do you no good,your finished,Gordon Campbell is finished...Luke is finished,2 months 2 weeks and I will never hear from any of you again.
Time for another election lesson,Campbell has done nothing to persuade the NDP vote,nothing to bring the Greens into his camp but what Campbell has done is alienate people.
I know many once Liberal voters but because of private/river dams are furious with Campbell.
So in other words,because of Plutonic Power Campbell will lose,no,be decimated in the next election.
I know of a dozen now Liberal ridings that are now by large margins NDP ridings(in all the internal polls)

4 burnaby ridings,2 surrey ridings,2 prince george ridings,3 more island ridings,maple ridge,fraserveiw,Delta, kamloops, in the 2005 election........

If 2000 votes in seven ridings went the other way the NDP would be goverment,that is how tight the margins were then,people are lined up on masse to vote Campbell out.

Luke bet and lost 10.000.00 dollars$ on the bi-elections(and has welshed on paying)

But that is what you people do, "bet and lose and run for the hills"

This election won`t even be close,I am predicting today,right now,Gordon Campbell will lose his own riding!

I am on the record SIG/ internal polls have Gordon Campbell down by a considerable margin in his own riding!

Campbell is done,Oppall isn`t running,Oppall will cite personal issues and not run! (he has seen the internal polls)
That is why Arther Griffith decided not to get thumped again

Some shocking new results about voter intent/stay tuned,I will be the first(second) to post it.

Port Mann Bridge... Greens Are Now the Main Beneficiary...

To re-iterate my much earlier musings, the Greens are gonna be the main beneficiary in the very enviro-conscious Burrard Peninsula. And it's already starting to bubble over:

Stephen Rees:

http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/can-nothing-kill-highway-expansion/

http://www.straight.com/article-203923/greens-exploit-ndp-leader-carole-jamess-support-blacktop-politics

It appears that the NDP's "Kingsway Mafia" has taken over policy-making within the NDP:

http://www.straight.com/article-170453/gregor-robertson-beware-power-ndp-kingsway-mafia

The weekend edition......

A few relevant opinions from Burnaby and 2 of the 3 wise men columnists.

Lets star with Vaughn Palmer

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=ddd3ef0e-b549-48d4-8bf7-fd6afc73e98c

A little Michael Smyth

http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=f62a4cf4-34f0-440c-9da5-86f499250fba

Lets have a ......

Listen to what families have to say in Burnaby!

http://www2.canada.com/burnabynow/news/story.html?id=abda965e-757c-4bd6-8e92-3f67c9afb990

sharingisgood: Thanks for the Hansard extract

Art Charbonneau was a strong, highly qualified highways minister, an engineer. Perhaps that's why the NDP's anti-highways activists made sure Harcourt shuffled him out of that portfolio.

In the lead-up to the 1983 provincial election I and another person were doing some research on local issues affecting the North Fraser Valley. I found a delightful old newspaper piece on microfilm in the UBC Library. In 1972 the late George Mussalem, the Socred MLA for Dewdney, promised that the Lougheed Hwy would be four-laned all the way to Mission by 1975. It was about 1981 at the time, and I thought this was just great, they still hadn't completed it, and the NDP could use this against them in the next provincial election. (It's still not done even in 2009!).

But a few weeks later I was on the phone talking with the provincial NDP's director of caucus research in the Legislature (who later became an Alberta MLA), telling him what we had found. I was just itching to tell him about the Musallem quote, which I figured was solid gold. But as soon as I mentioned the Lougheed Hwy, he cut me off mid-sentence:

I couldn't believe it, especially since the narrow loss in the previous 1979 election came about in part because the NDP blew it in the suburbs by opposing the Annacis Island Bridge, a project that had been initially designed under the Barrett Govt and which was going to be roled out as the NDP's main public works promise for the expected 1976 re-election drive. But Barrett called the vote a year too soon, so it sat on the highways department shelf for another three years till Bill Bennett used it for his 1979 re-election drive. By then, the NDP brains trust had decided that opposing the project was the optimal political positioning. And lost.

That was one thing. That they had learned nothing was another. They were still stuck in 1950s/1960s mode, railing fruitlessly against Bennett and Gaglardi and "blacktop government".

And in the past few years, with the problems Carole James had with David Chudnovsky on the Port Mann issue, you can see that the some people in the NDP, encouraged (directed?) by Liberal-controlled environmental NGOs, are still peddling the same material. Even though James has now made it clear the NDP will proceed with the project, Falcon induced warts and all, you still have the anti-highways, pro-real estate wing of the NDP making troubles for her over a claimed flip-flop on the issue, as in the Matt Burrows/Eric Doherty piece in this week's Georgia Straight.

http://www.straight.com/article-203115/ndps-james-warms-port-mann-crossing

Tha Party Of No(The BC NDP) Won't change anything

Quote Quarry Bay
As for Luke and Jstog,ya,they are working together,they were sent to try and stop us posters,we got their attention....
They are running scared,it`s all good Sig,.....

A Dillusionary crowd here. I'm an Individual.

End of growth will never happen. Immigration's wide open.
Retirees are flooding BC. Ecotourism's filling the skies and trampling the wilderness for profit. Isn't that kayak a product of the Tar sands.

SharingIsGood Its not html. Try again.

The problem with GE is? Your lightbulbs, fridges, microwaves, Computers and everything electric is made by a Boogy-Monster Corporation somewhere.
Electrical junkies (addicts) flock to buy the cheapest goods.
Mercury contaminated light bulbs are taking over. Energy efficient at what toxic cost?

Solutions:
Turn it off. Don't use it.
Organic Lightbulbs can be made at home. Get your local commitee to work on it.

Try Forming a Corporation and offer to pay higher taxes.
Work Harder Millions on welfare depend on you.

The Party of NO...The BC NDP Won't change anything. They didn't last time.

Grasping at straws eh Luke

As a regular reader of Stephen Rees...

I can assure you he has posted hundreds of stories against Campbell,against Translink,against everything,Mr. Rees is a staunch enviromentalist who is voting green,Rees is against ROR/Rees wants eveyone to live in high density walk to work communities.
His cause is noble but Rees doesn`t have to get elected.

Luke, the burnaby board of trade is against the prison,not exactly freinds of the NDP/Board of trade is against Campbell`s carbon tax.You just don`t get it do ya?
80% of the people in BC believe Gordon Campbell is not honest or trustworthy and ...

GORDON CAMPBELL is a PROVEN LIAR and LAW BREAKER

GORDON CAMPBELL is a PROVEN LIAR and LAW BREAKER.

And there is he can do to change people`s mind NOTHING!

Have a listen....

to the CKNW audio vault

http://cknwam.corusradionetwork.com/emmis/AudioVault.cfm

Cue up febuary 27/9.00am ---Have a listen to Vaughn and Keith,listen to a smart cagey caller at 9.22 am-----listen to the desperate callers for the liberals at 9.33 am----

Gordon Campbell is toast

JStog

"End of growth will never happen."

That's great to hear. Have you discovered a new earth-like planet with your personal version of Hubble?

Please let me know what star this new world orbits around as I'd like to check with SETI and see if your and Luke's Reform party friends are already there.

"Try Forming a Corporation and offer to pay higher taxes."

Another big Obama fan? Good to hear. Will you be supporting Obama policies in Canada too or just in the USA?

Growth

Why did all that "growth" in the US only benefit the rich? After all, the comments above suggest growth will raise the poor out of poverty. Why didn't that happen? What it did do was raise the rich out of being "merely rich" to "obscenely wealthy".

Meanwhile the poor actually got poorer. But I guess that fact doesn't jive with the pro-growth propaganda does it?

Stephen Rees

Good for him. I'm sure his support of the Green Party will work out and the Greens will be the next government in BC and his support of them will not mean the re-election of Mr Campbell because all that Green support will come from ex-Liberal voters. Uh huh, I'm sure all of Mr Campbell's federal Reform party voters are actually Greens underneath.

Because if the above isn't true then Rees is the closest thing to a "useful idiot" I've ever seen.

Another Liberal slam/ Times colonist

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/Forestry+crisis+demands+action/1339462/story.html

Frank: When did Obama say he was opposed to economic growth?

Frank
"End of growth will never happen."

That's great to hear. Have you discovered a new earth-like planet with your personal version of Hubble?
...
Another big Obama fan? Good to hear. Will you be supporting Obama policies in Canada too or just in the USA?

When did Obama say he was opposed to economic growth?

"against everything" LOL. That's about right!

quarry bay
As a regular reader of Stephen Rees...

I can assure you he has posted hundreds of stories against Campbell,against Translink,against everything,

That's about right. For example, as well as being opposed to any increase in capacity at Port Mann, he is also opposed to the Golden Ears bridge.

One thing Stephen Rees does, as opposed to talking about, is drive to work through the Deas Island tunnel. He explains to his readers that he has no choice, unlike the majority of the other SOVs on the highways and freeways who he says could easily choose transit or car-pooling if they weren't so selfishly addicted to the American lifestyle.

Stephen Rees has also said that if every vehicle on the road were a ZEV he would still be opposed to the Port Mann project. When he first came her from the UK, he was astounded that the GVRD's plans showed no routes for future freeways. But as time passed, he began to see the wisdom of this approach. In terms of other traffic measures, such as roundabouts, Rees says that British trained traffic planners are competent, but not American trained ones.

Rod

The piece from me you quoted was not in response to the piece from JStog you quoted. The response you quoted from me was to this quote from JStog :

"and offer to pay higher taxes."

Because Obama is proposing to tax the rich and use the money to provide more services for the middle class and the less fortunate.

Frank: Not talking about tax policy

Frank
Because Obama is proposing to tax the rich and use the money to provide more services for the middle class and the less fortunate.

I just want to know whether or not you believe economic growth should be stopped, and whether or not you think that's Obama's policy?

Rod

"I just want to know whether or not you believe economic growth should be stopped, and whether or not you think that's Obama's policy?"

Then why not ask me instead of misquoting me?

Rod

Obama's policy is not to stop growth, his policy is to tax the rich and provide more services for the middle class and the poor.

Have you heard of any so-called Obama supporters on the Right here in Canada calling for the same policy?

I haven't.

me, not Obama

"I just want to know whether or not you believe economic growth should be stopped"

Population growth should be stopped. As this is a big driver of economic growth it will have the effect of also stopping economic growth. Real economic growth should be making the people we have wealthier and not calling building roads for more people "economic growth". Because it isn't really economic growth, its population growth.

American reaction

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/02/24/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4826615.shtml

Strangely, Obama's call for higher taxes on the rich increased his approval ratings from 63% to 80%.

Too bad Liberals and Conservatives think Obama's policies are idiotic.

The PMB/Gateway - Some More Political Analysis... #1

Rod Smelser:

It wouldn't have mattered. Really. The Annacis Crossing/Hwy 91 was designed to alleviate congestion in the George Massey Tunnel. Aside from the '72 Socred/Lib/PC vote splits (when all three parties were credible had credible leaders), the '75 Socreds would have also supported the project and the NDP was already doomed in '75.

Furthermore, the NDP supporting the Annacis Crossing/Hwy 91 would not have borne any political fruit. Why? The riding specific beneficiaries were all centre-right... Richmond/Delta/South Surrey. No NDP gains to be had in those environs.

Similarly with the PMB. The NDP already has a lock on the three north Surrey ridings... Surrey-Whalley/Surrey-Green Timbers/Surrey-Newton, but that's it. No more low hanging political fruit exists south of the Fraser River for the NDP.

OTOH, the greatest political ambush against the PMB/Gateway has been by the pro-transit/anti-freeway/enviro Burrard Peninsula crowd.

NDP-affiliated politicians from New Westminster, Burnaby, to East Van.

Tell me, how is the anti-freeway Burnaby council and BCA Mayor Corrigan's wife Cathy Corrigan gonna fare in Burnaby-Deer Lake when she now must support the PMB against the wishes of BCA-controlled Burnaby council? Or, for that matter, the rest of the Burnaby NDP candidates?

What about all of the protests against the PMB/Hwy 1 widening along East Van's Commercial Drive, for example?

The political fallout from this reversal is more negative than positive for the NDP from a riding specific perspective.

The PMB/Gateway - Some More Political Analysis... #2

From Stephen Rees to Eric Doherty to Joe Foy and the Western Wilderness Committee to the neighbourhood associations', etc. They are all gonna feel betrayed by the NDP's reversal on the PMB within the Burrard Peninsula.

From Am Johal, 2008 NDP campaign manager, Vancouver Centre:

http://2010watch.com/projects/gateway.html

Regarding the SFPR, on April 4, 2005, Carole James stated:

Yet, Bill Tieleman appeared with NDP MLA's Guy Gentner and Charlie Wyse to oppose the SFPR part of Gateway just late last year. To most people, Gateway is Gateway. The Nordel Sunbury Neighbourhood Association will probably also now unhappy.

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2008/10/tieleman-to-mc-south-fraser-perimeter.html

The NDP will not have any further credibility with the pro-Gateway electorate now ... and now has lost all credibility with the anti-Gateway electorate. A lose-lose political proposition.

Meanwhile, the Greens now have their wedge issue in the Burrard Peninsula and will be the main political beneficiary. Really.

Credibilty......

LOL/HA HA.......

Some classic Gordon Campbell quotes

" I won`t sell BC Rail "

" I will honour the HEU contract "

" The carbon tax is the equivelant of taking 400.000 vehicles off the roads each year"

" 5000 long term care beds " Not what Abbott now says "we have created over 5000 incremental and assisted living care beds"

More Campbell

" We will dredge the build up of sludge in deer lake" spring 2005

"The most open and accountable goverment in history"

" no more golden parachute pensions for goverment"

The convention center "440 million and not one penny more"

olympics " 600 million is all it will cost the tax-payers"

" our security costs will half of the 175 million security budget"

" We will never run a deficit"

" fixed calender sessions in the BC legislature"

" no tax-payer money for goverment feel good advertising"

"open cabinet meetings"

Perhaps some other posters have Campbell quotes?

So Luke,I laugh at you,you talk about credibilty, maybe Campbell should have a new quote.....

"do as I say,not as I do"

Gordon Campbell has ZERO CREDIBLITY--

Gordon Campbell is a PROVEN LIAR and LAW BREAKER

Get off your high horse Luke,your really turning into the bottom of the barrell slag removal guy.

Quarry bay

Another Green Party Wedge Issue... IPP's...

Again to re-iterate from my previous posting - 1990's NDP press releases:

The Greens "Anti-Gateway" wedge issue will also likely play out with the IPP micro hydro wedge issue...

"If ya can't trust the NDP's flip-flops with Gateway, how can ya trust the NDP's flip-flops with micro-hydro IPP's?"

I can see this all playing out al la "Gordon Wilson" at the 1991 leader's debate.

Ahhhhhh BC politics with a Green twist in 2009. And party leader Jane Sterk, who will be the third party at the leader's debate, has a helluva lot more credibility than flaky Adrianne Carr ever had.

Luke S. - What are you afraid of?

Luke Skywalker
Quote:
Refusing to provide any sources allows one to intentionally distort and mislead.

Sources are not applicable when the same is already popular culture within the public realm.

It's deception, pure and simple. Taking things out of context, putting your own spin on them is the kind of insincere commentary one expects in an adversarial system, from the contestants. You've correctly identified me as one of Mike Bocking's recent campaign team (I was the Official Agent), but you refuse to identify yourself.

Which party contestant are you working for? Why can't you tell us? What are you afraid of? Are you afraid it would somehow spoil the scam?

LUke S. - More misdirection

Luke Skywalker
The political fallout from this reversal is more negative than positive for the NDP from a riding specific perspective.

More misdirection. Like other Liberals, you're assuming that NDP innocents will take your "strategic advice" at face value. The pity is that some do.

Luke S. - Really high integrity stuff.

Luke Skywalker
From Stephen Rees to Eric Doherty to Joe Foy and the Western Wilderness Committee to the neighbourhood associations', etc. They are all gonna feel betrayed by the NDP's reversal on the PMB within the Burrard Peninsula.

So what? These people are all part of the Liberal-controlled ENGO apparatus in one way or another. The same ENGO apparatus that also damns the NDP for not supporting Premier Gordon M. Campbell's carbon tax. The object of the ENGO portion of the Liberal master plan (federal and provincial) was to pressure the NDP through its environmental and urban wings to support an unpopular policy, the BC Liberal Govt's carbon tax, and oppose a popular one, highway construction. Nice try!

No wonder these people are outraged that Carole James didn't take the bait. They have blogged endlessly that she must, and they are offended that she isn't the least bit persuaded by them.

From Am Johal, 2008 NDP campaign manager, Vancouver Centre:

Quote:
Many of the NDP candidates in East Vancouver received considerable support due to their opposition of the freeway expansion.

I don't personally know Am Johal, but I suspect he, like many in politics, suffers from attribution error. If you win an election, you tend to assume that every position you took contributed to that win. That isn't necessarily so, and in the case of East Vancouver there's good reason to believe that the majority of working class people in those ridings appreciate the need to expand Canada's highway system in order to support the nation's trade activities, and to contribute to long run economic growth and good jobs at good wages.

Regarding the SFPR, on April 4, 2005, Carole James stated:

Quote:
Carole James stated, “ an NDP government would ... accelerate construction of the South Fraser Perimeter Road... ”.

Another out of context, unsourced, mystery quote, offered up by a man who will not give his own real name, or admit his affiliation. Really high integrity stuff, Luke. And just so typical and predictable. The gang at PAB must be very proud.

Luke S. - More credibility than who?

Luke Skywalker
And party leader Jane Sterk, who will be the third party at the leader's debate, has a helluva lot more credibility than flaky Adrianne Carr ever had.

Sterk (who?) has a lot more credibility that Carr (who?), does she? Luke, I can think of at least one person compared to whom everyone has a lot more credibility.

Frank: Do YOU want to stop economic growth?

Frank
Obama's policy is not to stop growth, ...

Frank, I am glad we have that part cleared up. Now, do you want to stop economic growth?

Rod Smelser...

Too funny. I never knew that!!! All I knew was that Budd ;) and you were both involved with the federal and provincial wings of the NDP out in Maple Ridge. And since Bocking is likely the NDP provincial candidate out there... and with your instistent PAB labelling... well... :)

Admit it. It's the likely political fallout if you've been following what's happening vis-a-vis Gateway.

So you're also from the school of the second man on the grassy knoll? :)

Alright. The closest that I've ever been to a political party event was when I was a young buck and was invited to attend the Socred nomination meeting by a friend and his folks (I somehow got in without any ID) for the Delta South constituency back in the fall of '86 - Expo year - Vander Zalm (Blahhh).

It was held at the south end of the Massey Tunnel at the Town & Country Inn inside a covered tennis court. Around 1,000 people showed up and after ~5 minutes I realized it wasn't my groove so I left, caught a taxi and then a bus-ride back home.

Strangely enough, I continue to receive donation request letters from both El Gordo and Carole. Of course, I suspect that I'm the end product of a political practical joke. :)

Never been a member of a political party and never will.

Rod Smelser...

Looks like you have as much reading comprehension as the poster quarry bay. Go back up and look at the link!!!

Rod Smelser...

Remember Gordon WHO??? He came out of the '91 BC election with ~33% of the vote. Not too shabby for a first timer. ;)

Luke S. - Hard to believe

Luke S.
The closest that I've ever been to a political party event was when I was a young buck and was invited to attend the Socred nomination meeting by a friend and his folks/

Hard to believe. Very hard.

Rod Smelser...

You can take it with a grain of salt... that's certainly your prerogative.

Hmmmmm... some interesting provincial races in your neck of the woods.

Let's look at Maple Ridge-Mission. With the 2005 vote transposed, the NDP would have won the seat by a sliver - 44.5 - 44.1%, when the Libs had a 4% spread over the NDP province-wide.

Bocking ran as the federal NDP candidate in Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge-Mission in both 2006 and 2008, with these 2008 results:

Con - 52% (+12%)
NDP - 33% (-2%)

I also believe that Bocking will likely be the candidate for Maple Ridge-Mission.

From the Maple Ridge News:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/mapleridgenews/news/40251988.html

Based upon the foregoing, and with Mustel now showing a 16% spread in favour of the Libs, do you realistically believe that the NDP will pick-up/retain Maple Ridge-Mission?

Or for that matter even Pitt Meadows-Maple Ridge, with Sather's slim margin in 2005 along as well as his failed 2008 opportunistic (as some would say) run at the mayor's chair, with the new Pitt River/Golden Ears Bridges nearing completion?

Just curious.

subterfuge

The topic of the article is the privatizing hydro-electricity in BC and turning our rivers over to foreigners. If anyone has read my thoughts in the past, he or she will know I am dead against it for a number of reasons. I wonder if anyone has any new thougths about this topic?

Rod

I already posted my response to your question regarding growth 6+ hours ago.

Title is "me, not Obama "

I will add that if any of you pro-growth guys are able to bring back all the lost habitat, all the depleted oceans and still find room for endless population growth and the food and energy to support them I'll be a pro-growth guy too.

Until then I'll be waiting for JStog to post the name of the star around which he found his new planet.

All politics all the time

No matter what political website I visit Luke is already there and filling the place with anti-NDP comments.

All Politics All the Time...

Now that's subterfuge. :)

Lets look deeper at dem dar foreigners, shall we?

1. BC companies;

2. BC investors;

3. First Nations;

4. BC/Canadian union pension funds;

... among others;

And they have also taken financial hits with the risks involved. Read above.

Yeah, we certainly don't want these foreigners in our country, do we???? :D

Shame on you NDP for letting these foreigners into BC, in the first place!!! :D

I know, I know, it's still ALLLLLL the Liberals fault.

BC companies

General Electric is a Canadian company? Cool, I never knew that.

WREZ

"WREZ was launched in March 2008 by the U.S. Department of Energy and the Western Governors' Association"

That doesn't sound very Canadian.

Frank...

As in General Electric Canada Ltd.???

http://www.ge.com/ca/en/

Hmmmmm... BTW, is that a reference to Plutonic Power??? :

Plutonic Power:
Corporate Head Office:
Address: Suite 600
888 Dunsmuir Street
Vancouver, BC
Canada V6C 3K4

If you guys would have stayed true to your ideological roots, you should have screamed when privately-owned West Kootenay Power was sold to American-based Utilicorp United and later on to Fortis.

Where was the NDP demanding that BC Hydro take over same as BC Hydro did with East Kootenay power in 1966?

But not a whimper. Nobody cared.

Luke

"But not a whimper. Nobody cared."

Reminds one of your anti-Obama rhetoric what with all his "tax the rich" speech. Of course if it was the NDP advocating same you'd have posted 15 times about how crazy the NDP is to indulge in class warfare. Yet when Obama does it, not a word in response.

As for GE, ah, you are indeed claiming they're Canadian. That'll be news to that country to the South as well as most of us here. No doubt this means General Motors, Ford, McDonalds et al are also Canadian as they too have "Canada Ltd" after their names.

Luke Canada Ltd

Of course, if you were true to your ideological roots you'd blast Obama.

Frank...

GE is as Canadian as Keiwet brothers construction!

And about those 8000 jobs on the port mann,the port mann bridge construction will be starting as soon as the Pitt River bridge and sea to ski highway upgrade are done.
That way all those Keiwit and flat iron employees will not skip a beat,straight to work on the port mann.
Looks like Campbell is only interested in keeping the same "good ole boys" working!

anyways,Falcon needs a rest after the treatment he got on the Sean Leslie show today at 3.30 to 4.00 pm, seems every caller was angry,even the ones who want the bridge built.

Frank...

West Kootenay Power, was established in 1896. Here's its service area:

http://www.fortisbc.com/images/about_fortisbc/Fortis%20Map4.jpg

Pretty big ain't it???

American-based Utilicorp United was shopping the utility around during the late 1990's, even to BC Hydro under the NDP, and later Fortis purchased same.

No... BC Hydro, under the BC NDP, was more interested in micro-hydro IPP power.

Frank, you ideological left-wing guys would never vote for Obama or the Democrats in the U.S. Heck, most of the Democrats (red-necks or Dixiecrats) south of the Mason-Dixon Line would fit in nicely with our federal Cons... not the federal Liberals. ;)

For that matter, Democrats always win the [b]wealthy[b] congressional districts in New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and California. You know, the West Vancouver-type ridings???!!!!

You'd never fit into that party. Perhaps Ralph Nader or some other Small left-wing party in the U.S. Yes.

As for Obama, increasing taxes above a $250,000/household income? :) That's quite progressive, n'est pas?

Obama himself is very intelligent, very eloquent, very reasonable, and I trust him. No Jack Layton left-wing rhetoric coming out of that man. ;)

Luke Canada Ltd

"West Kootenay Power, was established in 1896"

Barack Obama was elected in November of last year. It was in all the papers.

"As for Obama, increasing taxes above a $250,000/household income? :) That's quite progressive, n'est pas?"

Yes it is, yet if James or Layton call for it you attack it as class warfare, which seems kinda hypocritical, n'est pas?

"Obama himself is very intelligent, very eloquent, very reasonable, and I trust him. No Jack Layton left-wing rhetoric coming out of that man."

Except of course in his budget proposal where he plans on decreasing the inequality gap by increasing the tax burden on the rich. In fact, I think a PM Layton would not have gone as far as Obama is proposing to go.

Certainly the provincial NDP are not as left wing as Obama's budget proposal.

I'm impressed that you say you'd vote for someone further to the Left than Carole James.

Skookumchuk

How do you manage to listen to CKNW? I have to admit you are a greater man than I if you can put up with the BS and constant commercials on that station.

Frank.......

Lets just say I have somewhat of a following......

http://cknwam.corusradionetwork.com/emmis/AudioVault.cfm

Cue up 3.00pm march 1st/today--Fast forward to 3.33 pm, listen to the whole interview,listen to the angry callers, seems the callers(cagey as they be)really put Falcon in his place.

Cheers

Quarry bay

Frank...

Having been to a number of mobile home parks in the U.S. over the past two years, where the low-income white folk all professed a distaste for Obama and were voting Republican (yikes, I couldn't believe it), ya better get a refresher course on U.S. politics. Really.

Ya also better tell dem dar wealthy Democrats, in their West Vancouver-type congressional districts, to stop votin' Democrat. ;)

The BC NDP to the right of the U.S. Democrats????? lol

Most German Social Democrat politicians are even to the right of the Canadian NDP. That's why Die Linke has sprung up. And the SPD's Hamburg-wing is even to the right of the Paul Martin federal Liberals. lol

Frank - Zero Population and Economic Growth?

Frank
I will add that if any of you pro-growth guys are able to bring back all the lost habitat, all the depleted oceans and still find room for endless population growth and the food and energy to support them I'll be a pro-growth guy too.

Frank, am I right in assuming that you do want to bring a halt to population growth and to economic growth? And I also assume you are talking about a worldwide halt to population and economic growth, this isn't some comment confined to BC or Canada, although I would tend to think you probably want their population to stop growing as well.

If population is stable, and output per capita is to increase, doesn't total output have to increase as well?

Luke Canada Ltd

"Having been to a number of mobile home parks in the U.S. over the past two years, where the low-income white folk all professed a distaste for Obama and were voting Republican (yikes, I couldn't believe it), ya better get a refresher course on U.S. politics. Really."

If you had a point you forgot to say what it was. No matter, I'm sure it wasn't much of a point anyway given your superficial understanding of politics and writing.

"Ya also better tell dem dar wealthy Democrats, in their West Vancouver-type congressional districts, to stop votin' Democrat. ;)"

Why is that? If they want to vote for someone to the Left of Carole James I'm all for it.

"The BC NDP to the right of the U.S. Democrats????? lol"

You might want to send your uneducated views on US politics to the NY Times and Washington Post because their columnists would seem to disagree with you when those US Democrats are led by Obama.

Welcome to the 21st century.

Frank...

Yes Frank... welcome to the 21st century! ;)

Rod Smelser...

All political rhetoric aside, you should recall that I previously have posted herein that you are, IMHO, the "reasonable voice" of the centre-left on this site.

And Mike Harcourt, Dan Miller, and Gary Doer, among others, would undoubtedly have no problem with that statement. And for that matter, Obama as well. :)

Rod

Rod:"China is a totalitarian society that implemented a one child policy. In a democracy, I don't agree with that type of approach. Do you?"

Yes, I agree with the one child policy. After all, if the Chinese believe their own country is over-populated what expertise do I have to tell them they're wrong and they should have more kids?

Rod:"In Canada, as I am sure you're aware, our population will not be increasing by natural means within the next ten or so years. From that point onward, any increase in this nation's population will have to come entirely from immigration."

Exactly. So if we limit immigration then we don't have to run up debt and destroy environment to build for a bigger population because they won't be coming.

Rod:"I do not agree that economic growth should be limited."

But what about population growth? Currently economic growth tends to largely be driven by population growth. Obviously you're for economic growth but what if its driven by population growth? Are you still for it? Or you pro-economic growth and anti-population growth?

Rod:"We need to keep our economic potential and our actual economic output increasing at the fastest rate we can in order to provide increased living standards in the household sector"

That strategy hasn't been working. In the USA the growing wealth has gone only to the upper class and not average, or below average, households. If the point of economic growth is to raise the poor out of poverty then we need to try something else, something that works.

Luke

Go play with your crayons and let the big people talk Luke. We'll play again tomorrow and you can tell me about all that US history stuff you learned about.

Frank...

Ohhhhh man, such childish commentary.

Typical left-wing ideological rhetoric.

Ergo, is it any wonder that your are marginalized politically? :)

Luke

"Ergo, is it any wonder that your are marginalized politically? :)"

I guess that explains why all of your heroes are on the Left eh? I hope one day there's a Liberal you like but until then just keep worshipping NDP leaders.

If you want to stay up and play I'll want to hear about all this US history you learned in the faculty of commerce of all places. Please elaborate, this will be fun.

Frank...

Go to bed, you've been naughty, you've had your fun for the night. :D

PS. I don't want to see another "Dumb and Dumber" sequel here tonight. You and G West have already starred in enough sequels on here. :)

Luke

Leaving already? Oh c'mon, you've declared yourself an expert on US history, so by all means regale us with tales from south of the 49th.

If you're half as knowledgeable as you pretend to be its a wonder George Will isn't calling you for ideas for his next column.

So come on, let's hear it, you're never short of words when you're boasting so step up to the plate and deliver if you can. Let's hear all this knowledge about US history you picked up in the faculty of commerce.

Frank........

I wouldn`t worry too much about population growth,it is just a matter of time before another pandemic hits.(remember the spanish flu 1919)
The least documented event of the 20th century,150 million died,and that was before any trans global travel which only takes hours today.
It`s mother nature way,like with any animal populous,as soon as they get too large disease takes over.
And if it isn`t a pandemic it will be the arrival of peak food!

There is only a 30 day supply of food on earth,it wasn`t long ago when it was a 90 day supply.

Back to Stephen Rees,he believes we can bring in hundreds of millions of people and provide eco-densified life styles.

And as for Canada`s population declining,so what,it may decline for a generation but there will be another populous boom.

Frank,eventually another vesuvious,or Krakatoa will erupt,clouding the sky,dimming the sun,it won`t be fatal to mankind but it kill billions.

Dead zones are showing up everywhere in the oceans,some parts of China are now getting near breathing dead zones,and BC as a mass shipper/supplier of coal,well,you know,we will punish BCers for buying gas/natural gas/propane,but the goverment can be coal dealers and not bat an eye.

My suggestion Frank,enjoy life, try not to pollute and stock up on supplies.

quarry bay - quite the link

quarry bay
Lets just say I have somewhat of a following......

http://cknwam.corusradionetwork.com/emmis/AudioVault.cfm

Er, ... thanks for the link. I think.

Falcon was his predictably vacuous self. Big deal. But the follow-on guest, Perle, ... Jeeesus Christ. I had a decent dinner tonite and I damn near lost it listening to Perle.

Frank - Do you really want totalitarian policies?

Frank
Yes, I agree with the one child policy.

Do you really want totalitarian policies like that? Are you sure this is what you mean, that all families should be arbitrarily restricted in their choices in order for the government to achieve some overall statistical goal?

Did you know that the Quebec Govt spends substantially on pro-natalist policies that are thought to be increasing births in Quebec by as many as 10,000 per year? Do you think Quebec should be permitted to do that if you're so passionate about strict, ironclad population limits?

Exactly. So if we limit immigration then we don't have to run up debt and destroy environment to build for a bigger population because they won't be coming.

Canada's immigration target for a number of years has been roughly 250,000 people, or 1% of our population. I happen to think that's too high because of the impact it has on a few receiving cities, their housing prices and wage levels in lower paid occupations. Perhaps a figure more like 150,000 would be optimal. However, I would certainly not want to interfere with family reunification, or with international movements of genuinely skilled people where that's of benefit to this nation.

That strategy hasn't been working. In the USA the growing wealth has gone only to the upper class and not average, or below average, households. If the point of economic growth is to raise the poor out of poverty then we need to try something else, something that works.

Frank, Bush is gone. You're flogging a dead horse for the sake of rhetoric.

Without economic growth the poor will never see rising incomes, and neither will anyone else. Divisions by class are an issue, but if you're trying to raise the living standards of the bottom quarter by a substantial amount, you're going to have to raise taxes on the top quarter by a very substantial amount. That's not politically sustainable, to borrow an over worked word.

Rod

Rod:"Do you really want totalitarian policies like that?"

Of course not, but what's the alternative? India? Where would you rather live in 50 years? In the country that tried to keep its population under control or in the one that didn't? There is no utopia in living in a country whose population has stripped it of resources.

Rod:"Do you think Quebec should be permitted to do that if you're so passionate about strict, ironclad population limits?"

I think Quebec should keep its population under control. As to what that limit should be, I don't know that.

Rod:"Perhaps a figure more like 150,000 would be optimal"

Whatever the number is, what is the final target? 150,000 people for 1,000 years? The question is, would you accept limits of any size or like JStog do you believe population growth should have no limits?

Rod:"Frank, Bush is gone. You're flogging a dead horse for the sake of rhetoric."

I wouldn't call using the available stats of our planet's richest country, "rhetoric".

Rod:"Without economic growth the poor will never see rising incomes, and neither will anyone else."

Does this statement not qualify as rhetoric? Because its certainly not self-evident. There is absolutely no reason to believe bringing in more people will raise the quality of life of the poor already here. Although of course there is plenty of reasons to believe it will enrich the investor class. There's been lots of money pouring into BC yet we lead the nation in child poverty. Why would we keep following the same path expecting different results?

Rod:"Divisions by class are an issue, but if you're trying to raise the living standards of the bottom quarter by a substantial amount, you're going to have to raise taxes on the top quarter by a very substantial amount. That's not politically sustainable"

And yet it seems to be exactly what Obama is proposing. And for the moment anyway his approval ratings actually increased which tells me people know we have to change direction.

The free market doesn't work Rod. At least it doesn't produce the goals its many advocates claim. I'm simply pointing out that like the "Emperor with no clothes" the rhetoric doesn't match the reality. Something Obama seems to have noticed too.

Anyway, I'll ask you again, are you for or against economic growth based on population growth?

Luke Skywalker.........

You just can`t help but being an A__Hole,here Gwest hasn`t been posting all week and your calling him names.

A real class act you are Luke,where I come from we have a name for people like you,we call them knocked out and bleeding.

I fortunately don`t need to resort to violence,you already owe me 10.000.00$ and I can and Gwest and most others can outclass you in a heartbeat,because you Luke don`t have an original thought,your a bully with other people`s words,and the reason almost everyone here out-classes you is because Frank,West,Lynn,Sig, many more,too many to mention all by name,speak from the heart.

We intelligent posters thoroughly analyse the facts,remove the spin and reach conclusions,our own conclusions,Luke,I sure hope your getting paid to do this,because if your not being paid,you need help,your trapped in a world of illusion and spin,you can`t coherantly defend your opinion,you rely on others.

You are going to get one hell of a wake-up call on may 12th/2009

Your delusional if you think voters are going to elect an asshole,because of a bridge or because Bill Good likes him,your so wrong.
your also rude,threatening,and robotic,it will be good to see you disappear after may13th/2009

Go-ahead,press the offensive button.

Your nothing but yes man,and I have a short fuse,a lethal combination.

Frank: StatCan Population Projections

Frank
Of course not, but what's the alternative? India?

I think Quebec should keep its population under control.

Whatever the number is, what is the final target?

The free market doesn't work Rod.

Anyway, I'll ask you again, are you for or against economic growth based on population growth?

Frank, I think the quotes make it clear that you're coming from a space on the political spectrum that I don't agree with.

In answer to your question, yes. I think it's a sensible goal to maintain some positive population growth in Canada and BC through immigration over the long term, though at lower volumes than at present until our labour force population absolutely requires more migration in order to avoid shrinking.

Can I suggest the following StatCan source as a basis for discussion of future population scenarios for Canada and BC:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/91-520-x/00105/4095095-eng.htm

Rod

"Frank, I think the quotes make it clear that you're coming from a space on the political spectrum that I don't agree with."

Possibly, I know what they say since I wrote them but of course I don't know why you'd find them disagreeable because you haven't said what you believe. Regardless, that's fine.

The StatsCan scenarios you linked to project a declining population eventually. I assume you would be against that and would prefer we take steps to increase the number of births and the level of immigration? Because otherwise economic growth would cease in Canada and you've already said you're against that.

I believe we have to think long term. If the world can't support a given size population over hundreds of years then we shouldn't allow our population to increase to that given level.

I also don't think a stable population is such a terrible thing economically. its only recently that Saskatchewan passed the level of population it had back in 1932. Yet it wasn't a bad place to live in so I don't know why the idea that the country as a whole, or even the planet, has to have population growth.

I presume a belief in a higher power is necessary when one proposes constant growth so that we won't have to act responsibly? Unfortunately I don't share that faith.

Worth considering

Consider that:

In 2007 GE and Hitachi launched a nuclear business partnership.

Consider that:

They have worked together on nuclear reactors in Asia since the 1980's.

Consider:

GE's infamous environmental record in the nuclear industry. (Look up the film doc. "Deadly Deception".)

Consider that:

"Plutonic Power's president told the San Francisco "Money Show" in August of 2008, that run-of-river hydro is "infirm" and seasonally unpredictable so it would be best to back it up by a more reliable supplier such as nuclear energy.

Consider that;

"The transmission lines will already be there, lots of water available to feed a nuclear reactor and not a lot of people around to monitor for leaks and spills."

I've paraphrased the above two paragraphs from a Campbell River letter-to-the editor highly worth reading:

http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/letters/story.html?id=e187900c-f93b-43be-9aab-cb6cd894bc6f

IPP jobs

According to BC energy minister Richard Neufeld, the IPPs have so far created over a thousand jobs in BC. The problem is, and I am speaking as someone who was employed by Kiewit, the general contractor for the Cloudworks project at the top end of Harrison, most of these jobs are going to out-of-province workers. The grim statistics from the Thormanby Island plane crash show the proportion - out of six Kiewit employees on board, four were from out of province.

Neufeld and the rest of the Liberals know that there is a big difference between "jobs in BC" and "jobs for British Columbians" and that is why they disingenuously phrase it that way.

Luke asked:

Luke asked:

"If you guys would have stayed true to your ideological roots, you should have screamed when privately-owned West Kootenay Power was sold to American-based Utilicorp United and later on to Fortis.

Where was the NDP demanding that BC Hydro take over same as BC Hydro did with East Kootenay power in 1966?

But not a whimper. Nobody cared."

I for one Luke was but a child. You are making most of the commentors here responsible for ancient history, history they had no control over.

But still, the people of the Kootenays got some electricity that they didn't have before, way back in the day. Those days were much different, we didn't have NAFTA in those days, Luke, and you know it. NAFTA has changed everything. Now that the rivers have been opened for grabs, NAFTA guarantees that US-US and Mexican-based international firms can gain control of BC water and BC Hydro-electricity. How can you, be a citizen of BC and be happy that those resources have been virtually given away? I have lost all respect for your views. You protect the worst bunch of carpet-bagging thieves that have ever come to this beautiful province. You protect Campbell and the people he deals with. For shame!