BC's German Ferries May Be Lemons
Heavy fuel use, noise, vibration and air-sucking propellers said to be problems.
BC Ferries' Coastal Renaissance
On Dec. 13, 2007, the first of three Super C-class vessels built for $542 million in Germany arrived in B.C. to much fanfare. Less than 10 months later, B.C. Ferries announced the Coastal Renaissance would be spending more days tied up at the terminal than it would carrying passengers. The publicly owned company that runs the ferries has yet to fully explain why.
Back when the Coastal Renaissance arrived, B.C. Ferries' chief operating officer Mike Corrigan said the ship's diesel-electric propulsion system was 30 per cent more efficient than the engines on older ferries. Once all three of the new vessels were operating, he said, the ferry company would save about $5 million worth of fuel each year.
But in early October, B.C. Ferries' cost savings measures included replacing the Coastal Renaissance four days a week with the 32-year-old Queen of Cowichan. The two vessels carry about the same loads, but according to the watchdog citizens' group Save Our Ferries, the Super C-class vessel requires almost 20 percent more fuel to cross the Strait of Georgia.
A problem called cavitation
The new vessels' high fuel consumption may be related to larger problems that the ferry company has yet to disclose to the ferry-riding and taxpaying public.
"It's my understanding that there are some design flaws with the new ships," said Nelle Maxey, an organizer of Save Our Ferries. She has heard the new vessels are not as efficient as the old ones, she said, and that it has something to do with the propellers sitting too high in the water.
As NDP ferry critic Gary Coons explained it, the propellers churn the surface more than they should. The problem can lead to noise, vibrations and poor fuel efficiency, he said.
Company representatives have not spoken much publicly about this problem, though it was raised in a Jan. 8, 2008, Nanaimo Daily News article that quoted a local resident complaining about the noise and vibrations coming from the Coastal Renaissance when it was docked. The article said a B.C. Ferries official explained to the resident that the problems were caused by cavitation, a condition where there are pressure differences across parts of propeller blades. It's made worse by the fact the vessel was sitting high in the water, it said, and the "propellers are sucking air from the surface."
The Nanaimo article also quoted B.C. Ferries' spokesperson Deborah Marshall saying the problem, caused by "propeller vibration," would go away once the ship was fully loaded with vehicles and passengers. The added weight would push the propellers deeper, the article said, so that they would suck less air.
Mysterious gravel trucks experiment
One day last week, 18 fully loaded gravel trucks rolled onto the vehicle deck of B.C.'s newest ferry, the last of the Super C-class vessels to arrive, the Coastal Celebration. In an unusual test, engineers were filling the ship to its maximum to see if they could sink it far enough to get the propellers deep enough into the water to reduce the noise and vibration it makes when it's running.
Asked about the gravel trucks, Marshall wrote, "They wanted to simulate normal operating conditions." She did not respond to further questions about whether or not the full load helped.
Cavitation can cause a number of problems. According to three naval architects and marine engineers interviewed for background, cavitation can cause vibrations, noise and a loss of thrust. That loss of thrust can lead to higher fuel consumption, as appears to be happening with the Coastal Renaissance. It can also do long-term damage to a ship, leading to a pitting or erosion of the propeller, further reducing efficiency.
Without looking at the specifics of the case, one of the naval architects said it is sometimes possible to fix cavitation problems, and with any new ship there will be "teething problems." This is especially true when the ship is one of a kind or the first in a series, such as the Coastal Renaissance.
The problems are worse when the ships are docked, said one source. The engines have to go at their full speed and the propellers turn even when the ship is stopped, which causes heavy fuel use. It also relates to the cavitation problem because when the ships are tied up, there are fewer options for changing the angle of the propeller or heavily loading one end of the ship than when they are underway.
NDP ferries critic Coons said making the vessels heavier may or may not solve the noise and vibration problems, but it will add to fuel inefficiency. "More weight means more fuel usage." The engines may be efficient, he said, but they are being used on heavier boats and therefore require more fuel.
"I think there's major concerns about those vessels," said Coons. "Obviously there are some major design flaws. I hope these are warranty issues. We wouldn't want this to turn into a foreign ferry fiasco."
'Performing extremely well': BC Ferries
Ferries president and CEO David Hahn acknowledged in an October Vancouver Sun article that fuel consumption is a problem with the new ferries, but was quoted saying the vessels will be more efficient once B.C. Ferries' captains and crews get better at driving them. "Hahn said it takes some time to learn how to operate the vessels properly, just as it does to learn how everything in a home works after a major renovation," the article said.
Hahn's explanation offended at least some of the people who drive the ships, according to sources. And it is unlikely the full story. While improved handling will reduce the fuel used during landings, it does nothing to cut the amount burned while underway and while sitting at the terminal.
B.C. Ferries spokesperson Marshall requested questions be sent by e-mail before she would arrange an interview with a company official who knows about the ships. Instead of arranging an interview, however, she wrote back herself: "The Super C-class or Coastal Class vessels are performing extremely well and B.C. Ferries is very pleased with their performance."
There have been a few issues, she allowed, but the ships have a two-year warranty and they have been fixed by FSG. She repeated Hahn's position that fuel consumption will lessen as captains and crews get better at driving the ships. "Crews are still conducting training in docking the ship and are utilizing more power to do so," she wrote. "As the captains and crew continue to learn to manoeuvre the vessel with less power, B.C. Ferries will optimize fuel consumption."
Ships met specifications: FSG
Broder Hinrichsen, the head of design for Flensburger Schiffbau Gesellschaft, the shipyard that built the three new ferries, said he had not heard that Coastal Renaissance had been partially pulled from service. It surprised him that fuel consumption would be the reason given, he said. "I can assure you it's not a problem."
The vessel was fully tested before it left Germany and it met the specifications B.C. Ferries had set in its contract with FSG, he said, including for fuel consumption. "The three vessels are absolutely to the specifications."
He said he has heard there were some complaints from people living near the harbour, but he believes the propellers are not the problem. "The propeller worked pretty well. Otherwise you wouldn't have achieved the design speed and so on."
He could not say more without breaking client confidentiality, he said, so further questions should be directed to B.C. Ferries. FSG is also building a ferry to replace the Queen of the North.
While B.C. Ferries officials did not take the opportunity to talk frankly about the problems with the ships, stories are emerging from people inside and outside the company.
The latest, confirmed by more than one source, is that there is a problem with the alternators FSG used. Diesel-electric engines lose power when their alternators stop working. There is a bar in each alternator the length and shape of a bent arm. The bars FSG used have too small a radius and need to be replaced with slightly larger ones. It's an easy repair, but requires moving each 40,000-pound alternator just to reach it.
Each of the three ships has four engines, so altogether there are 12 alternators to fix. The repairs are covered under FSG's warranty, a source said, but will be expensive for the German company. Coastal Renaissance is being done now, to be followed by Coastal Inspiration next, and lastly Coastal Celebration.
Information shielded
There is also a story about how the power of the ships is pulling silt out from under the docks at the terminals they use. The company, according to documents filed with SEDAR, spent at least $11 million last year getting terminals ready for the new ships, and they may soon have to spend more on repairs.
Coastal Renaissance started out with propellers made in France, but reportedly had hubs on them replaced with ones made in Russia before the ship even made it out of Europe. Now new propeller parts are on order from Russia, but it will take at least 16 months before they arrive and are ready to go.
There have been problems with their electrical and sewage systems as well, though sources say those bugs have generally been worked out.
B.C. Ferries needs to be more forthcoming with information, said the NDP's Coons. When the B.C. Liberals restructured the ferry company in 2003, they made it exempt from the province's freedom of information laws. "B.C. Ferries puts out only the information it wants to put out," Coons said. "I'm not pleased at all with the amount of information we're getting."
The Coastal Ferry Act needs to be amended to include provisions for public oversight, he said.
So far, the company and the government have not fully explained exactly what's wrong with the new vessels, how serious the problems are and whether they can be fixed.
Related Tyee stories:
- BC Ferries cut service without asking permission
- BC Ferries Leaks Money, Riders
Falling passenger numbers have critics sounding alarms. - Our Olympics, Outsourced
It's a global gold rush, and VANOC doesn't give B.C. firms any advantage.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
Grumpy
18-11-2008
Ha, ha, ha...............
.........so Gordo's German built ferry's are lemons, ha, ha, ha. So where is the Asper press on this one? Bill Boring and CORUS? Not a peep you say.
With 'FastFerry' fiasco ingrained on the provincial lexicon, so much so, that the NDP were reduced to a rump in parliment.
But now Gordo's German 'sport car' boats have problems, major problems, so where is the mainstream media?
I was on the last sailing of the Queen of Sanich" on Sunday, full to the gunwales with cars and where was the Rennaiance class ferry? Tied up? Foating like a white elephant?
So now old Lib. and neocon chums, never again utter the word FastFerry, bParliamentecause Gordo's forieRenaissanceFloatinggn built fleeforeignt are second rate barges, tarted up to look good to the media boys with nice Olympic pictures.
Do I hear the word fiasco? Not yet, but give it time................Ha, Ha, Ha!
Fiat lux
18-11-2008
I drive a 1980 pickup
I drive a 1980 pickup without any problems.
It has solid bumpers at both ends. I made the front bumper myself from heavy channel iron. Can see the engine and change the alternator in 20 mins., the new headlights I just bought cost me $30. each.
Compare this with the new, super hi tech, computerized junk, where it costs $700. for the smallest problems because nothing can be repaired, only replaced. To change the alternator takes a day. With some of the new trucks the whole body has to be removed to get to certain parts of the negine. A broken headlight is 1000 bucks, no bumpers, the slightest bump costs a fortune, etc.etc.
The same idiocy is happening with all forms of machinery now.
Just started re-reading one of my old books, E.F. Schumacher's 1973 "Small is Beautiful", where he predicted the present mess, long before anybody could even imagine it. His first chapter "The Problem of Production", is already bang on.
On the other hand, our economists must be jumping for joy over these breakdowns and problems, because they all add to the "growth of the GDP".
Ed Deak.
Yammer
18-11-2008
Churning up silt
Silt and memories.
The Liberals spiked the fast ferries out of political convenience. It suited them to make the outgoing Clark regime seem as terrible as possible, regardless of the blow this dealt to our shipbuilding industry.
I can't say that I am happy to see karma at work here because, of course, we're paying for it.
crh
18-11-2008
our ferries are going from bad to worse....
I do recall people calling for using the existing design of the original ferries, as they have served us well over the years. It would have saved lots of money.
This problem seems like a biggie, and Hahn can't just keep raising rates to cover everything, as ridership is already down as cost of travelling is to high.
Also, BC Ferries are the only ones in the industry that are still chargeing a fuel surcharge. All the airlines have taken theirs off.
Also, I have heard that some waterfront residents are saying that the vibration from the new ferries is so bad that it is causing cracks to form in their homes foundations.
settebello
18-11-2008
The Coastal Cruise Ships
I travel frequently between Vancouver and the Island. I have become very familiar with the new ships.
My, my are they ever fancy. A deluxe gift shop so au courant it puts Lululemon to shame! A trendy "coffee house" worthy of Kitsilano!! The ferry cafeteria is stll the ferry cafeteria but now you can get fettucine primavera and butter chicken!!! Just one problem: why do we need such a cavernous luxury vessel for a 95 minute crossing (2 hours in the case of Duke Point)? Most of us who use the ferry all the time would be happy with a barge, as long as the price was right. These are the fast ferries, built to neo-conservative specifications.
I am no engineer, so I cannot comment on fuel efficiency. I note, however, that an entire deck of each of the German ships is off limits to passengers and sits empty, even on summer weekends. It takes up a full floor of the ship and includes yet another coffeehouse, devoid of customers but nevertheless poised to soon proudly serve Starbuck's Coffee, not to mention the relentlessly tasteless Bread garden fare.
I would suggest that an extra, unused deck is not only wasteful, but cannot be good for fuel efficiency.
Grumpy
18-11-2008
Now, here is the real story...............
..........the Campbell government, hell bent to destroy anyone or anything connected to BC, forced the contracting out of the new ferry's to a German subsidized ship yard.
To further save costs, after the contract was let, the quantity of steel used was reduced. This meant thinner plating and less dampening. This made the boats lighter and sit out of the water higher. But the designers forgot to adjust the props to counter for the lighter ship.
The result is cavitation or the props operating above the surface. Not only does cavitation reduce thrust, to maintain scheduled speeds, the engines run faster consuming more fuel.
Adding more ballast will effectively make the boats heavier to reduce cavitation (get the props under water) but will require higher operating speeds and more fuel. This why these boats will only be used at peak times and why they maybe sold off at an early date!
murdock
18-11-2008
Bigger not always better
Sadly the BIG approach to ferries has be scratching my head.
I can understand the desire to have big ships to carry the truck traffic, but then the commercial barges can be arranged to carry more at a better price, just not as 'flow convenient' as drive-on, drive-off traffic for the industrial sector.
A steady stream of boats capable of 200 cars each could be operating between Vancouver Island and the Mainland on the Mid-Island routes without complications. The only added cost might be in skilled crews.
For Victoria the 'bottleneck' is the island channels where the crossing traffic must be closely monitored. Speed is reduced in the area and during heavy weather the large boats actually do not gain much over the smaller ones, indeed when it comes to fuel consumption they likely take more.
I have never been happy with the decision to GO BIG with the Island Ferries and have always considered the decision to have been taken 'behind closed doors' without a clear explanation of why the smaller option was not at least explored for the mid-island runs. This complaint can be targeted at both the NDP and Liberal approaches to the question of BC Ferries operations.
EastofMain
18-11-2008
Gesellschaft.
It's spelled Gesellschaft.
egmont rapids
18-11-2008
More to the story
Even the staff working on the boats are coming down with physical symptoms,headaches,back problems,I heard teeth problems.
I also noticed on my trips on the new lemons that their were mant ill-fitting doors and windows,obvoiusly these tubs were built for a low-ball price(cheap)
There are definitly design flaws,there are no fixes.these boats are literally vibrating themselves to death,the more they run,the more damage themselves,you could replace the props,but,you would have to replace the props with props that are smaller and with less pitch,both of those options have unique problem.
First off a smaller prop with less pitch will be less eficient,more fuel use and loss of speed,also there is no way to tell how a diffrent prop will react until you actualy put it on,each experiment must cost literaly millions.
I knew when these tubs were sitting that there was a major problem,it may be so severe that there is no fix,Gordon Campbell always the fool will attempt to hide the problem,too bad Gordon Campbell was hell bent on destroying the union in BC--The BC ship builders built the best ferries in the world,it would have been a boon to the BC industry and we would of had good boats.
Please Luke I don`t want to hear about fast ferries,fast ferries were not the fault of the ship builders,they were the wrong design put forward.
Allthough Campbell did go out of his way to sell them as cheap as possible and they certainly could of been used during a
pinch! Lately there have been many pinches!
G West
18-11-2008
Dock 'em in North Van
And cover them with 'shrink wrap'...maybe Hahn can increase the short term parking fee to more than $1 per 30 minutes to recover his costs.
Perhaps that little bailout from the Premier in his little 10 point plan (the one that sank into the ooze after a single news cycle) was for a little more than 'fuel' costs.
Maybe Washington Marine Group will ride to the rescue.
Luke Skywalker
18-11-2008
Cavitation...
Alot of specualtion here but also some apparent teething problems for the new boats. As for cavitation, that's a problem, no doubt about it.
On whose shoulders that apparent problem rests is anyone's guess right now... the naval architects, the marine engineers, or the shipyard (FSG).
Looking at the FSG schematic, the props are well underneath the ship's hull.
http://www.fsg-ship.de/bcf733/
Grumpy:
Once a contract is let with specific design specifications at a set price, I can't see who is gonna "save further costs" and whose decision (if that's the case) it is to reduce the amount of steel utilized.
However, the rest of your point makes sense. And if that's the case the remediation/mitigation measure would seem to be the addition of heavy steel plating within the superstructure in order to counter-balance the supposed cavitation problems.
That would be up to the marine engineering firm to decide and, at the end of the day, I doubt that BC Ferries would be on the financial hook.
Luke Skywalker
18-11-2008
Something Doesn't Make Sense Here....
According to the stats on the Save our Ferries Website:
The Queen of Oak Bay, the Queen of Cowichan, and the new Coastal Rennaisance all have virtually the same vehicle/passenger/crew capacity... 362 vehicles for the former, 370 for the latter... 1,500 passengers/crew for the former, 1,600 for the latter.
Yet the two older boats are pegged at 6,551 and 6,969 gross tonnage while the newer boat is pegged at over three times that gross tonnage at 21,777.
http://www.saveourferries.com/vessel%20comp.html
Something here doesn't make sense.
G West
18-11-2008
Steel plate
Steel plate isn't going to solve cavitation problems...As for who will be on the hook...that's pretty obvious.
If the ships were designed and built to BC Ferries' specs then I'd suggest we may also find the taxpayer paying for some long and costly litigation as well.
Been there, done that.
Campbell's gang is starting to show up for what they were from the very beginning - the gang that couldn't shoot straight...or manage their way out of a paper bag.
If you don't think there were opportunities to cut costs and corners...then you don't remember this:
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=b20d0fe8-d378-4b7a-866b-305895fc83eb&k=94691
Grumpy
18-11-2008
Luke.......
............I had a chat with a marine engineer. All boats are computer designed and changes can be easily made and if the costs rose (as the price of steel did during construction) lighter plating could have been used. This in-turn lightens a ship, lowering the waterline.
Unless there is an investigation, no one will know for sure.
The same sort of thing happened with RAV - as costs rose, cut-and-cover (sans compensation) was used instead of bored tunnel and the station size were reduced to 50 metre platforms (3 car trains).
We have today, in Vancouver, built the only metro in the world which has a lower capacity than simple on-street LRT!
We live in madness!
SharingIsGood
18-11-2008
Perhaps, settebello,
settebello said:
"...an entire deck of each of the German ships is off limits to passengers and sits empty, even on summer weekends. It takes up a full floor of the ship and includes yet another coffeehouse, devoid of customers but nevertheless poised..."
Perhaps theses decks are empty because the extra weight (ballast) was not put into the hull as originally engineered. When they re-engineered the ships they also forgot that they would become top-heavy if a large number of people go topside. That's just my guess, mind you.
If it weren't for the fact that they have been doing such a terrible job with our public purse, it would be funny. The 2001-2008 Liberals are a tragic comedy, and Campbell's media monitoring paid apologists keep spreading the corporate BS. I don't know how they can stand themselves.
deeby
18-11-2008
The hidden agenda comes to light....
....we build vessels that supposedly have design flaws, tie them up, then sell them to Washington Marine group. They shrink wrap'em and store them in North Van for a few years.
Then presto! in 2015, Premier Falcon will fold BC Ferries and give the entire coastal contract to Washington Marine Group, who will fleece us on fares for vessels that our own tax dollars built.
You read it here first.... ;-)
Illahie
18-11-2008
Propulsion design considerations
The following link details propulsion design considerations for the Super-C vessels.
http://www.ssi.tu-harburg.de/doc/Veroeffentlichungen/2007/PRADS07_BCF.pdf
egmont rapids
18-11-2008
Luke/here`s your answere
http://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/cvis/ship_e.cfm?ShipID=1000258
Very interesting,newer but slower,much heavier,probably a lot of extra weight in a extra deck.
Wilfred Laurier
18-11-2008
Conspiracies aside....
All new ships have problems. Canada's city class frigates took several years to get up to snuff for example.
The larger, or rather smaller, question is why are we building car ferries anyway? Sometimes walk-on cannot get on the ferry and cars can. Remember the fast cat service from downtown Victoria to Vancouver? That was a wonderful ride and very convenient.
Luke Skywalker
18-11-2008
Illahie...
Nice Find!
Some tidbits:
egmont rapids
18-11-2008
Here is your math lesson of the day
http://www.gjenvick.com/SteamshipArticles/1932-06-28ShipTonnageExplained.html
Gross tonnage is all the space on the ship,space for engines,fuel,navagation,crew accomadations,other and all spaces on the ship.
Net tonnage is the space available for passengers and cargo/cars
Looks like this big new tub/lemon has a lot of space,unfortunatly most of that space is not for cargo/passengers/cars
Seems to me our old ferries were a much tighter,more space freindly--IE operational space was maximized with passenger/cars/cargo space--A very good ratio indeed, again BC shipbuilders made the best ferries on earth!
danneau
18-11-2008
Not to mention...
...and we must remember the story that appeared, I believe, in the"pages" of saltspringnews.com (were they here as well?) detailing the shenanigans of the Ferry Corp in gathering its finances at, are you ready?, 25% interest over five years. I'll have to hunt around through my old docs to find a copy of the .pdf posted on the SEDAR that seemed of no interest to any of the papers to whom I sent it, and which found no takers among the leaders with whom I shared it (including our own local NDP MLA. Let's see, 710 million x .25 looks like178 million the first year. Wouldn't take long to build fast ferries for that money, or slow ferries, and especially, can you just feature spending that money in the local economy? So let's all go back and read Catch-22 again, not as a bit of satire, but as a portrait of what really is.
SharingIsGood
18-11-2008
From 2002
Increased cost of restructuring and future FOI concerns about BC Ferries. We are being visited daily by many ghosts who warned in the past what our present would be under Gordon Campbell. We are morons for having allowed him to be running our province.
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/index.cfm?act=news&do=Article&call=644&pA=CF69F1AA&type=2
PacificGatePost
18-11-2008
CAVITATION etc.
Perhaps CEO David Hahn is in need of help that may stimulate common sense to permeate his perception of the reality around him.
It can't be possible that he would be as incompetent as his responses to challenges (to date), make him appear.
Jim Dodds
18-11-2008
BC Ferries
My Canadian wife and I came to live in BC from the UK in 2001. We lived in Vancouver and visited family on the Island regularly. The trips were interesting, comfortable, affordable and mostly on time. The staff were helpful, the food was usual travel fare to be neither commended nor condemned. Rather like British Rail before it became privatised and accident prone. I remember locals saying that the ferries were part of the Trans Canada Highway and as such benefited from our taxes. We live on Vancouver Island now, close to my redoubtable war bride mother in law who lives here with her 87 year old sister, eleven years her junior, both recently recovered from breast cancer thanks to that other much demonised service that cares for our health.
Reading the above essay and comments it really does beggar belief that BC Ferries, our section of the Canada highway, could have been deployed in such a cavalier fashion. It is inefficient, expensive, objectionably noisey to those who live close to the harbour and does not work to our personal or business interests. What are those original arguments in favour of privatisation worth now?
Waldmeister
18-11-2008
new ferries
Gesellschaft is German for company or corporation.
A new meaning for Gesellschaft should be gazelles (meaning B.C. taxpayers) get shafted.
Gordo in his fervor to sell private and free enterprise to the gullible forgot to mention that it means the private sector has the freedom to enter B.C. taxpayers' wallets and extract their price - or prize, if you like.
mjscox
18-11-2008
cavitation not the only issue with these ferry fiascos
According to a ferries employee I was talking to recently, other issues with the new ferries include:
poor kitchen layout with little room to manouever, countertops that are built "for tall Germans" not for the average height of workers in BC, and the kitchens are not designed to handle the amount of load (ie # of meals);
while there are plenty of nice spaces throughout for passengers, behind the scenes it is less than adequate for workers;
the electronics are all German; spare parts are German; we not only outsourced construction of the ferries, we will continue to have to purchase replacement parts from Germany;
these boats were built more as "luxury cruisers" than as workhorse day-to-day passenger and cargo carriers, so the demands placed on each ship are more than it was designed for.
This person also asked, rhetorically: Why is it that BC did not encourage our ship-building industry by ordering the ferries from this province's skilled trades, who, after all, built the fast cats, which would have kept the money in BC, built an industry, and allowed us to respond quicker and at less cost for repairs and parts replacement?
This is yet ANOTHER Ferry Fiasco and, as before, HEADS SHOULD ROLL.
jimmy_laroux
18-11-2008
Link to the paper given by Illahie ...
... from Institute of Ship Design and Ship Design at TU Hamburg Harburg:
http://www.ssi.tu-harburg.de/doc/webseiten_dokumente/ssi/veroeffentlichungen/PRADS07_BCF.pdf
Luke Skywalker
18-11-2008
BC Ferries - Historical Politics, Politics, Politics...
1960 - BC Ferries becomes an adjunct arm of the then Ministry (Department?) of Highways;
1973 - Dave Barrett's NDP government freezes ferry fares although costs continues to escalate in an inflation environment (an era of the COLA clauses);
1977 - BC Ferries becomes a crown corporation;
Circa 1977 - BC Ferries increases ferry rates in a high inflation environment;
Circa 1978 - NDP runs its public "Stick It In Your Ear McGeer" campaign against ferry rate increases (in reference to Cabinet Minister Pat McGeer, responsible for BC Ferries);
1981 - the double-ended Queen of Surrey and Queen of Oak Bay are brought into service;
http://www.bcferries.com/about/fleet/profile-queen_of_oak_bay.html
http://www.bcferries.com/about/fleet/profile-queen_of_oak_bay.html
1981 - New Democrat Dave Barrett makes a huge issue that these boats are "leased" from an insurance company and are not owned by BC Ferries;
1991 - New Democrat Harcourt decides not to build the second Spirit class ferry; Later the government changes it's mind;
1996 - New Democrat Glen Clark decides to revive BC's ship-building industry by building 3 aluminum catamaran-hulled ferries at a final cost of $460 million;
1996 - BC Ferries had initially recommended that a comparable ferry be leased for trials in coastal waters, but the Government decided to forgo testing and committed to the construction project regardless;
1998 - PacifiCat Explorer is launched;
1999 - PacifiCat Discovery is launched;
2000 - PacifiCat Voyager is launched;
March, 2000 - NDP government and BC Ferries decide that FastCats should not form part of BC Ferries fleet and should be sold;
March, 2000 - NDP government removes $1.076 billion in debt from BC Ferries;
http://www.robertwjones.ca/BC%20Ferries/BC%20Ferries%20Annual%20Reports/2000%202001%20Annual%20Report.pdf
May, 2001 - New Liberal government decides to take politics out of BC Ferries planning process and utilize the successful business model of YVR;
I certainly agree with that model ...the YVR business model... consumer-oriented... new terminals, new ships, new amenities. Who wants the nonsensical "political" model from the previous 25-year period???
Additionally, IMHO, a fixed-price contract in the amount of $325 million for the three Super "C" class vessels with the German shipyard in Flensburg was a good business decision by the quasi-independent BC Ferries.
Why? Removal of risk of rising steel prices among other reasons.
That's $135 million less for the three Super "C" ferries than the three useless FastCats built ten years ago.
As for the current problems, Global News reported tonight that engineers from the German shipyard are in town in an attempt to rectify the current teething/cavitation problems.
danneau
18-11-2008
More Ferries Financing
OK, I found the .pdf so here are a couple of excerpts:
Title page reads:
BRITISH COLUMBIA FERRY SERVICES INC.
CAPITAL MARKETS PLATFORM
SERIES 04-2 BONDS
SECOND SUPPLEMENTAL INDENTURE
Dated May 27, 2004
Computershare Trust Company of Canada
as Trustee
And here is the really good part...Is this not Alice in Wonderland, tout craché? Credit car debt wasn't that expensive at that point.
ARTICLE 2
FORM AND TERMS OF SERIES 04-2 BONDS
2.1 Creation and Designation
BC Ferries hereby creates a Series of Bonds pursuant to the Indenture and this Second
Supplemental Indenture, designated as the “25% Senior Secured Bonds, Series 04-2”, herein
called the “Series 04-2 Bonds”. The aggregate principal amount of Series 04-2 Bonds that may
be issued is limited to $710,000,000.
2.2 Form of Series 04-2 Bonds
The Series 04-2 Bonds shall be issued in the form of a definitive Registered Bond in a principal
amount in Canadian currency equal to the aggregate principal amount of that issue of Series 04-2
Bonds registered in the name of the Agent, as agent for and on behalf of the Lenders and
otherwise substantially in the form of Schedule A and shall have the other terms and
characteristics set forth or referred to in the Indenture and in Schedule A.
2.3 Delivery
The Series 04-2 Bonds shall be executed by BC Ferries and delivered to the Trustee for
authentication, registration and delivery by it to the Agent pursuant to a Pledge substantially in
the form of Schedule B (the “Pledge”) in connection with, and to secure, the Obligations without
any further action and formality on the part of BC Ferries, but nevertheless only upon
satisfaction of the conditions precedent set forth in Section 2.5 of the Indenture.
2.4 Date of Issue
The Series 04-2 Bonds shall be dated May 27, 2004 (being the applicable date of issue) and any
Series 04-2 Bond issued in substitution for or upon exchange or transfer of any Series 04-2
Bond, as provided in Article 3 of the Indenture, shall be dated the same date.
2.5 Payable on Demand
The Series 04-2 Bonds will become due and payable, together with all accrued interest and
unpaid interest thereon, on demand therefore pursuant to and in accordance with the terms and
conditions of the Indenture and the Pledge.
2.6 Interest
The Series 04-2 Bonds shall bear interest, payable in Canadian currency, on the outstanding
principal amount thereof from and including May 27, 2004 at the rate of 25% per annum to but
excluding the day on which all principal in respect of the Series 04-2 Bonds shall have been paid
in full, and in the case of default, with interest on overdue interest at the same rate in like money,
both before and after judgment. Interest shall be payable at the same time as principal is due on
the Series 04-2 Bonds.
G West
18-11-2008
Mmmmm?
New Liberal government decides to take politics out of BC Ferries...
I guess that's what Gordon Campbell was doing when he made that little Christmas promise to his buddy David Hahn...
Nothing this government has done since day 1 has been anything but POLITICS. And every day the voters realize another one of Campbell's 'innovations' is just a spectacle of the Premier in his skivvies, curled up against the Hawaiian night in a blanket on a cot in a Maui jail.
The emperor has no clothes and David Hahn should stick to bathtub racing. Maybe he could get Dave Basi to call Bill Good at the Watercarrier on this one. He certainly needs some help from someone.
Please see the pdf at the HOOK on this subject...very interesting!
Luke Skywalker
18-11-2008
Hmmmmm...
Interestingly enough, BC Ferries contract with the shipyard FSG contains these built-in guarantees:
https://www.bcferries.com/news_archive/files/04-071-super_c_vessels.pdf
Perhaps things may not be as bad as initially perceived after-all.
G West
18-11-2008
Hmm That's NOT A CONTRACT...
Sorry my friend, that's a NEWS RELEASE - not a contract.
The contracts, in accordance with changes in the law of the land, are not open to public scrutiny - the copies which have been made public are full of redactions.
If these turkeys won't float there will be consequences - you can ask Glen Clark and Ujjal Dosanjh about that......
If anything, the consequences will be worse since they weren't perceived at all.
Jeffrey J.
18-11-2008
The Tyee Scores Again
Great stuff Tyee. A scoop. Congratulations (yet again!).
Where oh where is CanWestGlobal????
jimmy_laroux
18-11-2008
Good article.
I sure hope there are pressure differences across the surface of the propeller! They are what generate the force that pushes the ferry. The issue is whether the pressure drops too low at spots on the blades. The water moving across those locations will actually boil, and the bubbles that form will immediately burst. This bursting creates noise and pitting on the blades, and is usually accompanied by a loss in performance. Sucking air into the propeller is a separate issue.
The Save Our Ferries fuel consumption numbers are quite striking. Clearly the vessels must have met BC Ferries' fuel consumption specification, otherwise they would not have been accepted. This business about how "it takes some time to learn how to operate the vessels properly" accounting for high fuel consumption is nonsense. It seems to me that either BC Ferries must have given very bad specs to FSG, or then some machinery which worked during sea trials must not be working as expected now that the ferries have been delivered. Or maybe BC Ferries' claim about "$5 million worth of fuel" saved each year was sot true.
If the numbers Save Our Ferries are not correct, then could BC Ferries have taken the Coastal Renaissance off its route because it was more expensive to operate, not because of fuel costs, but for some other reason? More crew required? Higher maintenance costs? More risk of malfunction?
Sam Salmon
18-11-2008
It's Early in the Game Folks
Owning a large craft means making ongoing adjustments sometimes for years, to date nothing extraordinary has happened and no one should panic quite yet.
Dr Alexander
19-11-2008
Newer is always better!
Well, not really.
I have had no real qualms about the "older" ferries that I have taken back and forth. After all, it is just a ferry trip, not a spa experience. Sadly, the present day mantra of customer "experiences", such as those at airports, is the order of the day.
I cannot see why BC Ferries could simply not have tendered the building of copies of existing, debugged BC ferries with newer more efficient engines. That would have made sense to me. Plus having them built right here. Most of the taxpayer money spent would be recycled right here in BC with a portion going right back into provincial coffers. Instead, all of the money goes directly to Hamburg (a beautiful city which I love to spend time in) with perhaps the odd Hamburg tourist bringing back to BC (maybe during the Olympics).
But, that would make some financial sense. Such as not fixing something that is not broke.
Look at the Bell JetRanger helicopter. It was first built for commercial purposes in the early seventies and it is still being build today (in Quebec) in essentially identical form, save for engine and component improvements. It saves a lot of design and tooling costs associated with developing a new aircraft. Oh, did I mention it has the best safety record of any single engine aircraft in the world. It was designed and built right the first time.
Old is not always bad and change for the sake of change is not always good.
BTW. I agree. The silence of the Asper Gang is truly something to behold. I guess they are probably still distracted by their share prices.
David Beers
19-11-2008
Global TV followed up on Tyee story last night
Should point out that Global TV (a CanWest operation owned by the Aspers) was the only tv news outlet to follow up on this Tyee story yesterday. Credit where it's due.
de Falla
19-11-2008
Global TV
Their story was completed with a slow pan from a Renaissance class ferry in Vancouver harbour to the Fast Cats tied up across the way. Gotta give them not only credit, but a pretty high mark for this assignment. But will they maintain this level of output the entire length of the course? I've great hopes!
shera
19-11-2008
CanWest did report on it
"Great stuff Tyee. A scoop. Congratulations (yet again!).
Where oh where is CanWestGlobal????"
I agree The Tyee is pursuing a great story, but CanWest has covered it. The Nanaimo Daily News did a piece on it months ago (as is explained in the Tyee story), and they are a CanWest publication. Not endorsing anyone, just relaying the facts.
SharingIsGood
19-11-2008
CanWest reporting
With online google searches I found nothing about this story in the Sun the Province or the Times Colonist. I'd like to see them report on this story for years on end like they did the fast cats.
It is my understanding that CanWest and Blacks' papers have had a monopoly with the Ferries under this government. CanWest also receives millions upon millions of advertizing dollars so we can watch commercials telling us how great the BC is under Campbell's government. The BC Liberal party, in turn, receives contributions from the Aspers. It is way too cozy for me. I am sick of it.
puppyg
20-11-2008
not sucking
"... performing extremely well... not sucking air..."... two more lies, nakedly transparent, that epitomize and make good metaphor for the Campbell era.
The Premier's faith in German technology is cliche, and no small insult to the British Columbian workers and Canadian manufacturers who were shut out of any opportunity to benefit from this.
Grand debacle... another taxpayer rip-off... when will the people see?
VanIsle Guy
20-11-2008
These ferries have issues,
These ferries have issues, and I believe we were sold a rotten bill of goods on these flashy ferries.
However, the exaggeration and utter B.S. being posted is over the top. "Cracking foundations of houses nearby"? B.S. What nonsense! Vibrations so bad that the crew have teeth problems? More crap! Have you ever been aboard the ferry from Powell River to Comox? Now that is some serious vibration issues!! Even compared to the old ferries, the vibration is less noticable on the new ferries.
When comments like these are posted, it definitely seems like a bunch of partisan hacks (is that you Glen Clark??).
The ferries have enough problems without the need for exaggeration. And the accountability is an absolute mess. This government is just as bad as the last one when it comes to the running of BC Ferries.
egmont rapids
20-11-2008
Van Isle
I ride the Powell river Comox frequently,it is a very old,very fast ferry,very well built,is it noisy,yes it is but as for vibration,it is not the same as the vibration on the new German lemons!
Who the hell are you to say workers are getting physical ailments from being exposed to continual vibrations,as for foundations cracking,I read the story myself in the Nanaimo daily news months ago!
So unless you have a masters degree in sound waves,and the effects of sound waves I suggest you keep it to yourself,besides these Germon Tubs being bad boats,it was a terrible decesion to have ferries built in Germany!
The decision was nothing more the Gordon Campbell trying to break the union all at the expense of the BC taxpyer,THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE!
egmont rapids
20-11-2008
Here is the cracking foundation story
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080827/BC_ferries_vibrations_080826?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
SharingIsGood
20-11-2008
egmont
Thanks for the post about the CTV report.
I notice the report was filed on the 26th of August - one of the weeks when just about nobody watches the news. If they were watching news, there is a good chance they were paying attention to the Democratic National Convention. On that particular day, Hillary Clinton gave her speech to endorse Obama. Further, the Canadian news was filled with speculation about Harper's impending call for an election with all the ensuing pre-election electioneering that was taking place from every party. I tried to keep abreast of everything that week: it was a momentous week; but I didn't catch this. The story would have reached a much larger audience had it been filed a week later, the day after Labour Day - the day after many had just completed a rumbly ride over the Labour Day weekend.
SharingIsGood
22-11-2008
Ribbon cutting
I just watch the ribbon cutting for the inaugural run of the last of the Super-c ferries on Vancouver's Global TV news at about 7:10 AM. No talk of major concerns, just a brief mention to the effect that some minor adjustments will need to be made.
Sam Salmon
22-11-2008
For those wanting a less
For those wanting a less prejudiced/more informed source of info on BC Ferries than this morass may I suggest
http://ferriesbc.proboards20.com/index.cgi
driftwolf
23-11-2008
Tax money
It's taxpayer's money that is being spent, there should be taxpayer oversight. But thanks to Campbell and friends, there isn't. It's all quiet and hush hush, and legally there is nothing a taxpayer can do to find out the exact extent of this continuing and expensive ferry disaster.
But we'll be expected to foot the bill anyway, and shut the hell up about any problems.
Just like a mugging victim in a back alley.