re - birth of a "indigenous-people's"...?

-------- sorry ---- but ,

most of the "lost & stolen land's" ,
happen to be "covered with water"...

how do you "occuppie - them " ,
with aqua-lungs,

or, under-water condo's...?

sorry -------

Your Land Is Occupied By Water

--- your "right's" to generate hydro-electric-power...?

or your right's to make a profit from :

the water Occupying your land ...? ---

was/were sold by the BC-Government...!

--- sorry

>>> however , a company called Accenture made it a commodity <<<

simply ,

people have bought-up large-chunks
of that water,

they demand payment

on the investment they made ...!

-------- Simply ----------

Major portions of the entire "LAND-GRAB-STORY" ,

have not even been talked about...!

-----------------------------------

there is a major "Financial-Story" that need's to be told...

ie: who benefit's the most ,
from the water...?

ie: the water been-ing held IN MASSIVE VOLUMES ,

for the Financial benefit of a few
(connected ~ families) ...?

-------- don't they get paid ,

even if water is spilled to rescue fish ...?????

yes

-- there is a lot more to this picture --

ie: there is a reason why ,
your land is occupied by water...

look at the family names of the people
who benefit / benefited ~ the most

from the water-sales ...?

ted... ( Victoria BC )

look and see how it was possible
for these people to buy-up the rights ,,,

TO THE WATER THAT OCCUPIES YOUR LAND...!

-------- PS ,

is there a law AGAINST
people floating , on

THE WATER

THAT ,

OCCUPIES

YOUR LOST & STOLDEN LANDS ...?

;(

.?????????

bounty for genitals?

Does anyone have a reference that confirms this? I know the Hudson's Bay did some pretty bad stuff, but I haven't heard this one before.

Mary Trent

Just as with the stories of smallpox infected blankets having been given to BC aboriginals, proof is not a requirement for belief.

Mary Trent

Just as with the stories of smallpox infected blankets being given to BC aboriginals, proof is not a requirement for belief,

right

one more "lets hear it for the underdog" story.
This is becoming a nation full of guilt feelings, jumping at every opportunity to condemn what our forefathers might have done.
Have anyone realized the cost to this nation every time a new tribe somehow gets discovered?
guess by now there will be more disputes over boundaries and 125% of BC will be claimed by various tribes?
Give it a rest, if we go back far enough we all have forebears who were mistreated somehow somewhere; why don't we all go ask the government for help?

Whose land is it anyway?

And as with other native-told rewrites of history, what's glaringly absent here is any mention of the long ongoing war with the Ktunaxa over the lower Kootenay River/Columbia area; I think the Ktunaxa even had the Tsuu Tina with them in the campaign. It's not like the Sinixt were reduced in population only by white-cause (if not instigated) diseases and social change and a handful of killings (especially relative to what went on south of the line...), and it's not like what they see as their home turf wasn't also considered rightful territory by someone else (I think the Ktunaxa land claim may sstill include Castlegar, or at least Nelson...). Or that, as Teit recounts, the Sinixt population suffered greatly in this war (and they weren't always backed up by their cousins to the west and south; in fact the Okanagan land claim takes in all Sinixt territory rather unequivocally....maybe because the Colville Federated Tribes is the Okanagan Nation government in the US and it includes the Sinixt, and the many others on that reservatino.

That's it for the main points; I'll be back about the logic, and the growing problems in BC historiography and historiographical journalism with unquestioning reporting of highly a-factual and incredibly subjective and revisionist histories. "Hystericies", to coin a term perhaps; "hystericalities" maybe - being a victim doesn't mean that everything you claim about your victimization is right.

There's enough real evil in the world without having to commit more to get even for it. And the truth isn't always what you want it to be, not matter how self-righteous the cause or mortal the injury that revealed it...

I'll dig up stuff on the "war between the Kootenay and the Lakes", as Teit and others refer to it as....I think it was still going on into the mid-19th Century; after David Thompson....maybe it was 10,000 Ktunaxa and Blackfeet and not white men after all? ;-|

Just curious, Mr. Editor

I just looked over Weyler's previous-contributions to your mag and I just gotta ask - what did you pay him for this article? EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS. -- TYEE EDITOR What's a guy got to do to get a gig like that? How many other writers (myself included) who make half a bit of sense don't get asked to write articles, EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS -- TYEE EDITOR. PLEASE DISAGREE WITH OUR ARTICLES, BUT DO NOT ATTACK THE CHARACTER OF OUR CONTRIBUTING WRITERS. -- TYEE EDITOR

In many of these forums we bemoan the sorry state of the big rightist media. If you want the small leftist media to have any credibility, you'd do well to avoid pieces of hornswoggle like this in future. EDITED FOR PERSONAL INSULTS.

Such a sad story

Our leaders have an anti-native agenda and we must always look at what they do rather than what they say.
In Langford (suburb of victoria) we had the shameful video of a councellor (and senior archaelogist) giving the finger to a peaceful native protest to council.
And she retains both jobs!
At very least the archaelogy job should be lost.
Where are the good citizens saying that it is not acceptable?
I guess I am acting locally, thinking globally.

My gosh, how long are we

My gosh, how long are we going to be passing out favours for percieved'Sins of the fathers"A few years back one woman got recognised as the only member of some band. Immediatly the benefits from assorted ministries were available. Hey if the governemnt will buy such stories, well I guess we will continue to pay out sums of money. At least with a really small band the money might actually get to all the members, but don't bank on it. Big fight on the Musquim as a lot of cahs was going into the band but most members had seen none of it. Some band members live in poverty while other members do yery well thank you very much.

We lived for ten years on a reserve on a development set up on Locatee space and saw close up who had cash and who had nothing much. The land was and still is "Land set aside for Indians" but somehow a large number of non indians bought homes on that land. Land title exists only two ways said Canada's top court. Prove it, or negotiate for it. with negotiation being the courts prefered way to settle. Until then it's all crown land folks . For that reason a lot of us spent a lot of time attending treaty negotiation tables, and met some fine people but some not so fine.

customs

Somewhere on this thread (I can't find it) someone wrote that native peoples did not have a word for lying, and I've read that they also did not have a word for theft, either. Within the tribe, neither existed, and there are good reasons for this, since in an oral culture, accurate information could mean the difference between life or death.

Similarly, aboriginal cultures abhorred the accumulation of personal wealth, since experience had proved that in a closed system (unchanged for thousands of years) where everything is already owned and shared, personal wealth leads to greed destroying the stability within the tribe. In such a system, theft is unthinkable, and it was.

However, once outside the tribe - and often even outside individual villages within the tribe - these rules no longer applied, and then FNs were just as rapacious as any of the whites who came later.

The clash of cultures which occurred with the coming of European traditions was/is far more profound than the average person can comprehend, since we automatically include in our core beliefs the certainty that greed is a natural human condition, as is theft, etc. FNs know this is nonsense, since they have personal evidence otherwise.

And so the inherited cultural inability to understand the need for and use of accumulated capital has plagued FNs since we've come, and has kept them in the impoverished condition so many still find themselves plagued with.

Some, like Dr Suzuki, believe that "restoring the culture" is the key for FNs to find pride of place within the "Dominant Society". What they too conveniently forget is that those cultures were adapted for subsistence living where the innovation which drives our culture was unknown.

There is no way that those old values can deliver the material goods which FNs today want just as badly as everyone else. And so the only way out of the bind is for the Dominant Society to perpetually subsidise an unproductive lifestyle.

And so we see their belief in "entitlement", and recurring instances where one material gain simply validates another, greater one.

We've long opposed our own priveleged, hereditary aristocracies in the democratic belief that we owe no-one a free ride.

To AlexPeacemaker

Oh yeah, the colonialist jackboots who stole your land really cared that you consider yourselves the Mother People. I'm sure they knew all about it, and had planned a special targeting of your people ever since David Thompson and the Fur Company Expresses highballed it through the area, assiduously reporting back to London and Montreal "we've got to steal this area and do away with the people, they're the origin of culture for a whole bunch of peoples so we better take away their power by eradicating them." Because that's what your little fable/exaggeration implies - no, it doesn't imply it, it states it clearly that you think you were specially targeted.

Hogwash. And as for the only people being eradicated by Order in Council, that may be true. But you are NOT the only people made extinct, either by white hands or by other indigenous hands.

"Erroneously named the Silvery Slocan and the Kootenays" - more pretentious hogwash. Slocan is a Sinixt word for one thing, but nobody erroneously names anything; they name things, period. If you don't like thet area being given the name of your enemy people (the Ktunaxa) that's just too bad. It's the standard name in English, and the Ktunaxa were there too.

White people are always erroneous, always evil, always stupid, always scheming. That's your own racist bugbear, that attitude, as is the idea that you were a "holy people", a chosen people.......what snotty "we used to be saints" crap. [PERSONALLY OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.] Where you had a supporter, you now have a critic because of your hyperbole, paranoia and outright fabrications/distortions.

How many Sinixt died at the hands of white poeople? How many Sinixt died at the hands of the Ktunaxa and their allies, and how many Ktunaxa died at the hands of the Sinixt. Was the old rock-weir at Castlegar, recorded by the early fur traders, built by the Ktunaxa or the Sinixt? I'm sure you'll claim it was the Sinixt, and that the Ktunaxa will claim it was the Ktunaxa. And for all anybody knows, the Salishan and Ktunaxa peoples pushed out somebody long before; the Salish peoples had to spread out of somewhere, and I have yet to hear of an archaeological study that says the Slocan/Arrow was the homeland, or that Sinixt was "the Mother Language".

(cont...)

To AlexPeacemaker part 2

I support the Sinixt land claim, but I do not support your outrageous historical claims and distortions, and I do not support pretentious "we were holy and sacred and white men were all murderous bastards targeting us because they knew we were a holy people". That's called a persecution complex and I suggest you get collective psychoanalysis for it....and have a good look at Israel/Palestine for where "holy people" arguments get you...

"Vanity of vanities"......

As for Steven Point's claim that his traditional language didn't have a word for "lie", that may be the case in Hunquminum (the Musquam language) but they did have words for slave, killing, rape and all the other good things unholy people do. And I'm sure they had other ways to tell if someone is lying; pretending that someone never lied simply because their language didn't have a word for it is irrelevant. If people didn't know enough to recognize a falsehood and believed it instead as truth, that doesn't mean that there weren't falsehoods or treachery or all those other good things ordinary mortals are all capable of and likely to commit.

Native peoples were not more holy or sacred or righteous than anyone else. Claiming so is arrogance, and a great way to alienate people who might otherwise support you; other than the sort-hearts who believe any mytho-historical crap you churn out at face value.

There was a saying about Chinook that "you can't tell a lie in the Jargon, but English - there was a language made for lying in". Other than observing that there are words in CJ for lying ("being smooth") and lies ("kliminawhit", which can also mean a liar as well as lies). And given that English is indeed a language crafted for lying in, both you and Steven Point's educators have engaged int the craft par excellence.

Explain to me also why Okanagan Nation Alliance maps don't acknowledge Sinixt territory, or Sinixt culture/separateness form the Siylx, in any way.

The Pentlatch and Whonnocks and Skayuks and Nahwitti and Stuwix and others are extinct. That they didn't get orders-in-council "making it so" is irrelevant to the fact of their extinguishment, no matter what game of semantics you want to play to claim specialness for your people.

Those who pretend to righteousness and a higher morality are generally, also, those least likely to display any trace of it.

I'm curious

The Lakes/Sinixt, as I recall, were mentioned in Hill-Tout's account, or someone's anyway, as taking part in the c.1838 punitive expedition against the Lakes Lillooet (well, all of the Lillooet, ultimately, though the insults of the Chief of the Lakes Lillooet were the cause/pretext), taking part alongside the Nicola, Okanagan, Shuswap and Nlaka'pamux.....did the Sinixt get Lillooet slaves like everybody else did out of that campaign? Or were you too holy to have slaves? Too holy to go to war? If you were peacemakers, did you even try to arbitrate a peace before this genocidal war? Because it was genocide. Like lying, indigenous peoples may not have a word for that, but they still committed it.....

Also

I expect to see a retraction and apology for the completely spurious charge that the HBC and NWC guys paid a bounty for indigenous scalps and genitalia. That is an outrageous lie. You may see yourselves as a holy people, but when you band-name groups that didn't do anything like what you claim, and in fact showed concern for native populations as their customer base and sometiems as friends and allies, is an insult and a violation of what in our ancient culture was called "guest-friendship", a concept which was sacred and protected the safety of hosts as well as guests. You have violated that.

Unless you're going to claim Fort Shepherd was built on testicle-extraction profits, rather than being built to give indigneous cusxtomers of the HBC somewhere to shop where Yankee sharpshooters wouldn't be picking you off on the way to buy fixin's for bannock, I'm asking you to retract that lie.

It's a big lie, that bounty-for-genitals thing. Again, you may not have a word for lying in Sinixt - but you're sure doing it well in English.....

censorship ??

So tell me, Mr Beers, why my post of last night was removed in its entirety, without any explanation?

On the Land

Reporting from Sinixt Shwan’ix’qa (aka the Upper Columbia River Drainage Basin)

Yes Skookum you have perceived an error in the article. The Hudsons Bay Company and the North West Company did not unleash mercenary bounty hunters against the Sinixt. It was during the tenure of the HBC and NWC that the poison blanket decimated upward of 99% of the people.

Rex Weyler may have made an inadvertent mistake in what is otherwise stellar journalism. It was the successors of the HBC and NWC, the mining/industrial/banking cartels, who contracted mercenary bounty hunters to subdue the surviving Sinixt remnant.

The Sinixt grandmothers still tell the story of a mercenary called ‘Broken Nose’ who would brag that he killed women and children with his penis. Some would say these claims can never be substantiated because the Sinixt did not keep written records. If the Sinixt ancestors did not catch Broken Nose’s baptismal name - Sorry about that! The People were running for their lives and the mercenaries weren't leaving business cards.

To those who attach so much importance to the written word do you think the script of ‘Wag the Dog’ is a new device?

Perhaps Rex Weyler will apologize for this inadvertent mistake when the inheritors of the HBC & NWC corporate lineage apologize for their role in the bio-warfare genocide of countless peoples.

To all the armchair historians who question the veracity of our Grandmother’s first person accounts - Choke on a gnat and swallow a camel if you so choose but know this: The relentless march of Roman domination over all the 4 races of the Medicine Wheel (the Sacred Hoop) has been the calamitous aggression of those who will pillage, murder, torture, spoil, rape and desecrate all creation if they could.

It is everyone’s personal choice how they want to reconcile their inner lives with the cold hard facts of life today on Planet Earth. We all have the same choice of allegiance: It is either the Love of Power or the Power of Love.

Our Sinixt Chief Elmee’qum Bob Campbell says to the Canadian population: “It does not now matter how you or your descendents arrived on our land. During this time of planetary peril we are all in the same boat together and what is important is that we live together as good neighbors. A good visitor is welcome in any camp. A bad visitor is welcome in no camp.” (Elmee’qum translates as Head-Man appointed by the council of the Elder Grandmothers)

I hope this is helpful
<><><><>
live if you want to live
Alex Peacemaker

re censorship

I guess I have to list myself among the super-paranoic, because my post is now there, and I haven't the faintest idea how I missed it.

My apologies to Mr Beers,

Of strangers in a strange land..

That being all of us for the most part. Indeed , the reason for my comments stems from the ... FOREST AND TREES connundrum..,
You know the one that states that though people actually think they see both FOREST and TREES.. , what is most in evidence thus far is the obvious lack of being able to see the ROOTS themselves.. (* without which neighter forest nor trees could exist ),..

For those who feel targeted by these comments - it was intentional *.. and directed at you.

Village (*)

IL ÉTAIS UNE FOIS UN VILLAGE ET UN PAYS.., ( bar none )

As in BACK FROM EXTINCTION ......

CANADA , that is , was and will be.

An idea in motion.
A powerfull notion. ( from 3 oceans )
A mind construct.

And First Nations, seeking recognition
and respect from newer arrivals, in a vast land that in aggregate form , takes into account most of the territories that aboriginals within this land named TURTLE ISLAND?

For clarity is needed.. : to induce a '' sense of place'' , '' sense of belonging'' and emerging ''sense of identity'', let alone aggregating all of the ROOTED identities of the past now re-igniting our future.

Thus is our land.. : and I call it land of communications*.. ( bar none )
To each his own, to each his zone.., there's plenty of space in this vast land called CANADA*..,

Let's live up to our myth of getting along.., Let the land point the way..

Village.

RE smallpo.

Of all the current FN mythology, nothing has seen more research than the smallpox blanket story, and barring incidents South of the border, there's not a shred of evidence to be found for it happening in BC or Canada, which include investigations into the time-frames related to it's occurrence.

Well it all depends on where you think British Columbia

was situated in the FUR TRADE ERA...

We in effect -as in the DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
ergo BRITISH COLUMBIA -were in fact north and south and East , in fact all of the COLUMBIA WATERSHED itself.., from which we inherited it's name.
In other words there was no border and British Columbia ( the District )went quite deep into what is now referred to as the United States of America. Especially on this Pacific Coast. Or so I am led to believe by all I've researched South of the border.Just visit Fort Vancouver ( the very first Vancouver on the Pacific Coast) in the State of Washington to realise what I'm describing here.

And so it goes , as per our need to situate the territory that was being expanded in the name of the FUR TRADE , which later set the tone and perimeters for EUROPEAN SETTLERS and SETTLEMENTS..

Hence from a First Nations point of view , we were all enterlopers , entering the various territories that each tribe called their own for purposes of extracting furs.. Thus begins the beginning .Thus spelled the end also. For they were to be many that followed these original Courreurs de Bois and VOYAGEURS .. who clearly opened the way for all those that followed.

They were called LES CANADIENS* and they were much like the AMERICANS , experiencing open space and wilderness amongs an abundance of nature .., leading them to want to eventual settle in the bit of heaven they stumbled upon..

They called their land CANADA!

it also depends on where you think CANADA was situated during

THE FUR TRADE .

This mind construct ( CANADA ) carried to the very furthest reaches of the Fur Trade itself , by these VOYAGEURS and COURREURS DE BOIS.. pollinating the very idea of CANADA to the furthest reaches of that particular industry and era. Such is our beginnings , such is our expanded territorial identity.

Thus as far as LE CANADIEN* was concerned CANADA happened to be where he or she found or even lost themselves at times. Working as '' engagé '' for the various fur companies of the day.

CANADA also happened to be where l'HABITANT settled - especially in the territory now referred to as QUEBEC but originally called CANADA ... by the various maps that the original french explorers created.., ( and so began for the settlement and settlers a reference to a sense of place, sense of belonging and sense of identity..: ergo CANADA.. (* ni plus ni moins )

They carried with them - wherever they travelled - the very dream of a homeland that they thought of as having the name CANADA! .. and so it goes..,

As we search for meaning and roots .., within a land that has been able to sustain so many cultures of the world eventually , as to even suggesting that we may have the closest experience to that of a WORLD CULTURE experience , in the making..

Such is our land , such is our humanity.
WORLDLY.

No wonder we have provided ,as our legacy to the world ,an individual - now passed away- who coined the term.. GLOBAL VILLAGE..,

As with all of our challenges and endeavors we are children of the 21st and 22 Century in the making.., and the closest we can come to a definition about ourselves... IS TO REALISE WE INHABIT A LAND CALLED COMMUNICATIONS.. ( CANADA in other words )

or VILLAGE if you will.

Reporting from Sinixt

Reporting from Sinixt Tm'who'luch (Mother Earth)

>Me2 said
>Of all the current FN mythology, nothing has seen more research than >the smallpox blanket story, and barring incidents South of the border, >there's not a shred of evidence to be found for it happening in BC or >Canada, which include investigations into the time-frames related to >it's occurrence.

There is plenty of evidence that the poison blanket was/is a military strategy against our people, apart from your admission that it only happened in other places.

There is the first hand accounts of our Ancestors. There is also the fact admitted by colonial record keeping. That being: Black Robes (the alledged Christian preachers)dispensed innoculations to those who submitted. Ah ha! Not only then did Black Robes have the power of life and death in his syringe, it is also axiomatic that Black Robes had/has the scientific knowledge of bacterial/viral/microplasmic efficacy.

Well known Canadian author and activist Naomi Klein, in a programmatic essay published in 2003, writes: "BC's First Nation peoples have already been robbed of so much. It is the duty of all Canadians living on stolen land to join in the struggle to defend what is left."

The choice is yours but I will remind the reader - Holocaust denial has been made a crime in Canada. Where is your heart at?

"You got lies, damn lies and statistics" (Mark Twain)
<><><><>
Live if you want to live
Alex Peacemaker
Associate Sinixt

and then you've got Territories ..... to each his own, and zone.

As to the ownership of land. The First Nations - all of them- gradually held their very own ground.for a Time.

What the Europeans did was - much like what happened in CHINA for example,- become the instrument for aggregating land in a much larger template and framework.And Network.And for the most part we all know how Empire's come to be.
Amassing and assembling huge tracts of land and being able to construct not only a '' mind construct '' but being able to create a COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK itself was very critical to this endeavor.

From their perspective ( The Europeans) , the very idea of Mapping the land , rivers and mountains became the gateway to taking possesion.Indeed , the mouth of the rivers , being the very first strategic openings they sought and MAPPED..*

And with their ships they came and through a sort of surveillance , took away the intelligence they needed for further penetration. MAPS, were and to this day still are the most important tool that created the knowledge that was so critical for the Europeans to be able to penetrate the mysteries of the '' NEW WORLD''..

From their point of view , these lands were also '' god given'' .. and from their '' gods'' , they prayed given thanks and prayed also for the strenght to conquer­. And so it goes...While First Nations of all stripes prayed to theirs.

Meanwhile, within this Universe , the various tribes having thousands of years earlier settled within this New Found Land, had managed to carve out not only a living but a religion of their very own..Plus arrived at an ever changing understanding of what constituted each of their LANDS..*

Thus it was their gods againts the European Gods , if you will....eventually, that was to settle the question.For a little while.Until our mutual roots and traditions meet again. And so here we are.

And we all know the the world never stands still.

Circles and Cycles , just like the seasons of our minds.
TIME...

Peace,

Village.

As to MAPS of old, it might be interesting to note

that a very fascinating book recently published speaks of the fact that the EUROPEANS were made aware of MAPS made by the Chineese many years before they were out EXPLORING and DISCOVERING the so called NEW WORLD for themselves.. ( As they mapped these worlds with their very own tools and explorers eventually and AFTER the CHINEESE had done so themselves.)

And isn't it interesting to note and remember that First Nations are reported to come from those regions , tens of thousands years prior to the period we are looking at. (*For some ).

And so it goes.. Round and Round again and AGAIN*

just like NATURE !

Blathering historical ignorance from "alive"

There are so many holes in your rambling and hysterical posts that it's hard to take them all on except to say that you have a Looney-Tunes version of BC's early history. Concerning the above comment, this is clear demonstration that you have no friggin' clue about the nature of the fur trade's politics in the region - which were explicitly to keep out settlement. Even after Gov. Douglas was ordered by London to open up the Colony of VI for settlement he deliberately set land prices prohibitively high in order to keep buyers - settlers - out. Settlement only began in BC when the power of the company was broken.

In other words, the fur company and its trade patterns had f-all to do with setting "the tone and perimiters for European Settlement". The fur trade was, in fact, the main deterring factor for settlement in the region, whether by Americans or by Britons.

Your earlier, briefer posts in the wake of mine I was going to summarize along the lines of a counter-propaganda argument I made on a recent Shannong Rupp article here: whenever someone spewing untruth is confronted with the actual truth, their response takes one of three forms:

1) Stony silence and pretending that your comments aren't worth responding to.
2) Patronizing passive-aggressive retrenchments of the same lies, usually with a "let's all get along" tone - "reasonable-sounding madness" is still mandess though, and reasonable-sounding likes are still lies.
3) Lunatic-fringe rantings about high and holy visionary spewings that make even less sense than the original pack of lies.

You previously fulfilled No. 3 more than adequately; but you have outdone yourself tenfold in your big three posts on why BC, Canada and the Territories don't actually exist.

Right, and the real government of Earth is on Betelguese.

Chinese maps?

Mumbo-jumbo seems to suffice for reality when cultural/historical revisionism is the agenda, doesn't it:

[i]WHAT CHINESE MAPS?????[/i}

This is puff'n'stuff wish-n-piss bullshit of the first order; the very earliest semi-real maps of this area were Russian in origin, and made because of a Dane (Vitus Bering). Or did this author claim Bering used Chinese maps?

There have been all kinds of efforts to prove/verify Chinese or Japanese or other East Asian contact here; none have shown any trace of actual specific evidence or tangible, verifiable record. Cook and Vancouv er and Quadra did NOT come through here because of some markings on a Chinsee map.

But it's clear that Village and Alive will believe anything they want, and shout loudly at anything that they don't want to admit to the truth of.

As I've noted before, it would help if people wanting to rewrite history would actually read some first.

fact and fantasy

I am sympathetic to the situation of the Sinixt, but there is some fantasy mixed in with the facts here. It is not true that most peoples used to be matriarchal and peaceful. There is no evidence for this, and plenty against it. Similarly, the idea that the Sinixt are the "mother tribe" of the Salishan peoples is unfounded. Even if the homeland is correctly identified with that general area, it isn't that specific.

As another commenter pointed out, the claim that the HBC distributed smallpox infected blankets is completely unsubstantiated. Furthermore, it makes no sense. Killing of Indians was very much against the interests of the fur traders, who needed them to supply furs.

word for lying

I can't be sure about Halkomelem, but I'd be very surprised if it doesn't have a way of saying "to lie". In Dakelh (Carrier),the indigenous language here around Prince George, there certainly is such a verb. "he/she is lying" is whuts'it. "you (one person) are lying" is hoonts'it. "you (two or more) are lying is whuhts'it. "we (three or more) are lying" is ts'uwhuts'it. "they are lying" is huwhuts'it. etc.

billposer

I'm not arguing with what you say, billposer, for you are clearly speaking with some authority.

Perhaps the difference lies with time-frames. Very few, if any, of the original BC native languages were accurately recorded by linguists at the time when they were "pure", and they may indeed have had words for such as "lie" and "steal". I've only read they didn't.

But when trade between other natives and whites became very common, a shared language evolved, called Chinook. This "pidgin English" language incorporated words from both English and many different native languages.

It was so useful and became so popular that some tribes (I've read) switched to speaking almost entirely Chinook within their villages, with many original words falling into disuse. From what I understand, contemporary native languages now include many Chinook words.

And perhaps another reason is that once the need for the words "lie" and "steal" became necessary for FNs to speak about, they simply coined words for them. Other languages do it all the time.

Likely Skookum1 has better knowledge of this than me.

In this particular Book , one author suggest some stunning and

fascinating research conducted over a period of years.And I'l let the author tell his story. As I quote his Book , below.

[i]The New York Times bestselling author of 1421 offers another stunning reappraisal of history, presenting compelling new evidence that traces the roots of the European Renaissance to Chinese exploration in the fifteenth century

The brilliance of the Renaissance laid the foundation of the modern world. Textbooks tell us that it came about as a result of a rediscovery of the ideas and ideals of classical Greece and Rome. But now bestselling historian Gavin Menzies makes the startling argument that in the year 1434, China—then the world's most technologically advanced civilization—provided the spark that set the European Renaissance ablaze. From that date onward, Europeans embraced Chinese intellectual ideas, discoveries, and inventions, all of which form the basis of western civilization today.
Florence and Venice of the early fifteenth century were hubs of world trade, attracting traders from across the globe. Based on years of research, this marvelous history argues that a Chinese fleet—official ambassadors of the emperor—arrived in Tuscany in 1434, where they were received by Pope Eugenius IV in Florence. The delegation presented the influential pope with a wealth of Chinese learning from a diverse range of fields: art, geography (including world maps that were passed on to Christopher Columbus and Ferdinand Magellan), astronomy, mathematics, printing, architecture, steel manufacturing, military weaponry, and more. This vast treasure trove of knowledge spread across Europe, igniting the legendary inventiveness of the Renaissance, including the work of such geniuses as da Vinci, Copernicus, Galileo, and more.

In 1434, Gavin Menzies combines this long-overdue historical reexamination with the excitement of an investigative adventure. He brings the reader aboard the remarkable Chinese fleet as it sails from China to Cairo and Florence, and then back across the world. Erudite and brilliantly reasoned, 1434 will change the way we see ourselves, our history, and our world. [/i]

Village,

Billposer trumps Skookum1

Thanks ME2, but humilities aside, Bill Poser far out-trumps me as a language and culture authority, as the head of the Yinka Dene Language Institute in....Vanderhoof?

But he's right, of course, as I already knew. Whatever Steven Point was talking about, it may just be the lack of a specific lexical equivalent to "lie". This doesn't mean that people didn't lie, or that there weren't other idioms that amounted to the same thing as "lie". The Chinook version, note, simply means "to make smooth", "to smooth over", "to be smooth", with kliminawhit, "liar", being "someone who's smooth". Sounds like a perfectly good definition of butter-not-melting-in-one's-mouth to me, or a description of the core tactic of your average con man.

And to AlexPeacemaker and your high-and-holy elders and that chief who told you to admonish me to "be a good guest". For one thing, I'm not anywhere near Sinixt territory (I'm in Mikmaq territory at the moment). For another, a good host does not insult his guests with lies and insults, in any culture, yours or mine. In the course of admitting to one outrageous error (without any real apology for it) you proceeded to retrench the other lies and distortions that Bill Poser and others have rejoindered about since; mostly the smallpox blankets allegation...

...cont.

cont. about Sinixt-supporters deranged version of history

but then there's that whiteman-with-big-penis story which you trotted out for sympathy. Quite believable, given the nature of the individuals the frontier was known to attract, here anywhere, that a serial rapist/killer would find easy pickings in the remote mountains of the Northwest.....

[OFFENSIVE AND INFLAMMATORY COMMENT REMOVED HERE...]

and The Tyee should itself print an apology for this article, given its many EVIL errors and general stupidities.

Your elders or your Chief Bob made some [...HERE...] comments about your people being singled out by distant white authorities back east. This is delusional, along with the hyperbolic falsities throughout your posts, and in "alive"'s and "village"'s, and also in Weyler's original article. You guys are over the deep end and while you can believe your version of reality all you want to, don't expect others to. The whiff of megalomania if Chief Bob's admonitions to me, and in your own pretensions as a "peacemaker" when you're pedalling lies as if they were the only truth.... [...HERE...]. And it's just rude, whether or not you couch it in nice "conciliatory" language. You still lied, and in the course of untelling one lie, you told twenty more. Some host...

[...AND HERE. -MODERATOR.] are endangering the legitimacy of your claim, think about that.....

Menzies is discredited

Menzies' fatuous tome on how Europe became a Chinese colony, like Needham's works on why China really should have had world empire instead of anyone else, are both discredited by serious critics and historians.

But "Village" has to quote from it in [b]bold[/i] as if somehow that's going to make us want to read whatever nonsense Menzies was claiming.

Menzies was wrong; read Derek Hayes' Historical Atlas of British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest for a discussion of real maps; not wish-wannabe-gee-I-need-to-believe-this interpretations by types like Menzies, but by specialists in cartographic history.

I guess everything would have been alright if this had been a Chinese colony, right? I'm sure the Chinese would have recognized the Sinixt as a holy people....and treated them just like the Tibetans....

As far as SETTLEMENTS go.... there's this interesting study done

on FORT VANCOUVER itself.. ( I quote again this very thorough report in the following two postings ).

I. FORT VANCOUVER: 1824-28 (continued)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fort Vancouver Outposts

During this period, only two principal settlement sites beyond the immediate vicinity of Jolie Prairie could be considered under the influence or control of the new establishment at Fort Vancouver. The post's later development as a hub of agricultural activity encompassing remote outposts really began after 1830, and is discussed in the following section. During these earlier years, however, the nascent white settlement in the Willamette Valley was probably established, and the old Astorian post of the Pacific Fur Company at the mouth of the Columbia, which the Canadian North West Company re-christened Fort George, continued to operate at a reduced capacity under McLoughlin's direction from Fort Vancouver.

Willamette Valley

The Willamette Valley extends about 150 miles south from the Columbia River; the valley floor averages about thirty miles in width. The Willamette River is the means of drainage from the Coast Range on the west and the Cascade mountains on the east, and, like the Columbia River, for many years was the principal means of transportation of goods and people, where the only break in the river was a relatively short portage required to circumnavigate the falls at what became Oregon City. Its soil was rich; its vegetation included dense forests and open prairies covered with grass. During this period wildlife-including the beaver, principal object of the fur trade--was abundant.[b]
About eighteen miles above the falls, where the river makes a bend to the west, was a natural clearing which is now called Champoeg. It was the northernmost of a series of openings south of the river bend, extending for around twenty miles and terminating just northeast of the present day city of Salem. This area came to be called French Prairie, bounded on the east by the Pudding River and on the west by the Willamette, its soil consisted primarily of black loam, rich farming land. North of the Willamette River's bend was a series of low hills, and north of them, extending from the area of the present day Forest Grove to Lake Oswego. From the river bend to the hills lining the west bank of the Willamette River, were the Tualatin Plains, traversed on the south by the Tualatin River. Principal routes to these sites from Fort Vancouver included the Willamette River, and an overland trail long-established by fur traders and later used by the Hudson's Bay Company, which began near the present day site of St. Helens, Oregon, near the confluence of the Willamette and Columbia Rivers, and extended south through the Tualatin Plains to Champoeg.

Settlements (*Part 2 ), ergo EUROPEAN or WHITE SETTLEMENTS

The exact date of white settlement in the Valley--and the consequent alteration of its landscape is not positively documented: oral histories indicate settlement by free trappers may have begun around 1812, although whether farms were established or the settlement consisted merely of hunting camps is not known at present. By 1826-27, however, some freemen had establishments in the valley: by 1826 a free trader named Etienne Lucier had at least a semi-permanent camp near Champoeg. where he herded and sold horses, but it does not appear he had begun any substantial farming there at that time. In 1828 he applied to John McLoughlin for assistance in establishing a farm in the Willamette. McLoughlin later recalled, "I told him I would loan him seed to sow and wheat to feed himself and family, to be returned from the produce of his farm, and sell him such implements as were in the Hudson Bay Company's store at fifty percent, on prime cost. But a few days after he came back and told me he thought there was too remote a prospect of this becoming a civilized country, and as there were no clergymen in the country, he asked me a passage for his family in the Hudson Bay Co.'s boats, to which I acceded." [97] But Lucier missed the connection with the Company's fall express to Canada, and returned to Fort Vancouver, where McLoughlin dispatched him, early in 1829, on a hunting expedition headed by Chief Trader McLeod, then camped on the Umpqua River in southern Oregon, and due to head into California.
[b]
[i]In either 1829 or 1830, Lucier applied to McLoughlin again for assistance in starting a farm in the Valley, and it was then that the Company, through the aegis of McLoughlin, became involved in the development of farming in the Valley, through its provision of seed, livestock and agricultural implements to freemen and retired employees. [98] Oral tradition also credits two other freemen with the honor of having established the first farm in the Willamette Valley--Joseph Gervais, who may have staked out a farm near Chemaway on French Prairie in 1827 or 1828, and Jean Baptiste Desportes McKay, who was, according to U.S. Navy Purser William Slacum in 1837, the first settler on the "Willhamett," near Champoeg. Because McLoughlin later recollected that it was in 1829--some historians believe 1830--that he first lent agricultural materials to settlers, who he personally approved, the Willamette settlements are discussed in more detail in the following section. For the purposes of this study, it is sufficient to note that it was the Hudson's Bay Company's seed, agricultural implements and livestock which provided the foundation for the first farms established in the Valley, and therefore significantly impacted its establishment--and development--as a settlement center.

Village,

The reason I posted the above 2 part report and speak of the

the history of the FORT VANCOUVER itself and the role it played during the Fur Trading days , is that I regularly go down there , and have found that this particular historical site *.. offers to one and all an in depth glimpse at not only the Fur Trade itself , as it was practised on this Coast , but also offers up a fascinating insight on the true nature of how even we in British Columbia *.. ended up with this name. , and how also our SETTLEMENT PATTERNS flowed from this particular economy.

Remember that Vancouver Washington was the very first Vancouver in these parts of the world.

Remember also that if the settlers following the Oregon trail had not arrived in such great numbers and persistence , that in fact, the BRITISH COLUMBIA that was then ,from about 1812-1825 , would encompass most of the area that defined the COLUMBIA WATERSHED ..( and clearly within sight of the designs of the EMPIRE of the day.. ) of not only SETTLEMENTS per se..but with designs of domination in the long run in their minds. Just look at the Geopolitical reality of that era and one becomes very clear on the intentions that flowed from these initial ressource extraction efforts..

And so it goes, as we fully need to realise that our collective and individual memories have been severed by..., the boundary disputes and eventual treaties that all of a sudden and perhaps forever made very small, a territory , that had such great promise for the British ...( and LES CANADIENS which followed the fur trade and as ENGAGÉS were in effect the backbone to that particular Fur industry of the day.. having become the point of entry to SETTLEMENTS themselves that followed that particular economy).

They were also ,( LES CANADIENS or ENGAGÉS ,as they were called then), became defacto the spearhead to future Settlement outcomes , even in the British Columbia of today, in that the very first of the white settlers and in and for the most part becoming the majority within the white settlers population in many fur trading regions..(,BC BEING ONE OF THE PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHAT i SPEAK ABOUT,) for they often chose to settle*..., to in effect remain behind , once their working engagements were completed.. (*having become attached to the land , as they were proned to be..) THEY WEREN'T CALLED '' HABITANTS '' FOR NOTHING.. Much like the Americans ,LE CANADIEN* loved the land and freedom that came with it.

ENGAGÉS .., indeed and in fact , they became the essential intercultural agents in the period of the fur trade in all parts of CANADA and also in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA .. during and following the role they played as ENGAGÉS to the Fur Companies of the day. And then Settlers to the regions , once released as free agents , once again. HABITANT ( SETTLER* )by any other name..

Village,

wild misinterpretations

Village, you're so off base with your interpretations of early fur trade settlers [INFLAMMATORY AND OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED HERE... ]. The flood of American settlers did not really begin until 1843 - a long time after the 1820s - and the reason the British tenure in the region was not more secure because fur company policy, and also British imperial policy, was against settlement of the region because it would hurt native peoples, i.e. their customers and harm the fur trade as such. Lucier and other engages who took up land were themselves often half-aboriginal, i.e. Metis, or they had native wives. And when Oregon constituted itself as US territory (actually a provisional government was declared first, in defiance of the Anglo-American Convention underlying the "joint occupancy" of the region, these part-native people were marginalized, not just because they weren't fully white but also because they were Catholic. So Lucier isn't any kind of "pattern" nor are settlements by other engages; the settlement pattern south of the 49th Parallel was not established until after the Yakima and Cayuse Wars which followed the Oregon Treaty, i.e. it was not until after these dire events that Washington Territory was even safely settle-able.

The fur company opposed settlement, point-blank, no matter what specious "proof" you think you've found. It's an old standby in BC history - that the HBC's control of the area was deliberately anti-settlement. Latter-day revisionist analyses of this are just that - revisionist, and not based in the the facts on the ground; or rather only on facts which "prove" the desired conclusion.

And none of this that you've cited has anything to do with Chinese maps, or with Sinixt claims to be the Mother People. So why did you waste three very long post (and overly emphasized with bold and italics) to try and prove something that you don't really understand much about? Read more on the fur trade era, and on HBC and British policy, before [...AND HERE. -MODERATOR.]

Skookum1

You ask - quite reasonably :

"So why did you waste three very long post (and overly emphasized with bold and italics) to try and prove something that you don't really understand much about?"

I think Village et al are merely grandstanding before admiring peers who, like themselves, have little understanding of what constitutes a logical argument or how credible research is carried out. They can't be embarrassed because they can't fathom why they should be.

However, they do the rest of us a favour by putting their shopworn myths out front in such a clumsy manner that their BSing has to be obvious even to those non-FN sympathisers who normally hold that ANY critique of FN claims is racist in intent.

And further to why the British did not contest the American's arbitrary claiming of the 49th parallel as their Northern Boundary, my understanding is that they were too involved in fighting and paying for European wars to waste money in defending land that was "barren", having relatively few fur resources and worst of all, NO GOLD. :- )

Continuing on within the context of one of the most researched

Forts of the Fur Trade itself. Thusly, I quote the following .

''I. FORT VANCOUVER: 1824-28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1824-1828

Fort Vancouver was established in the winter of 1824-25, a significant event in the international geo-political schemes of Great Britain in the early nineteenth century, as three great powers attempted to establish or maintain control of the northwest coast. Although not initially intended as such, it became the chief administrative headquarters of the Columbia Department of the Hudson's Bay Company; within a decade it became the hub of all Company activities west of the Rocky Mountains, including international trade, for which the foundations were laid during the years 1824-28. During this historic period Company officials began to realize the agricultural potential of the site, and laid the foundation of what would become a vast farming enterprise. It was also during this period that the first of many famous botanists and explorers began to visit the post, receiving assistance and aid at this outpost of civilization, which furthered their significant contributions to the prolific body of nineteenth century scientific research in many fields. In these years at Fort Vancouver, the first wheat was grown in Washington state; the first commercial salmon industry was established; the first flour in the state was milled, and many other early industries were started. Under the supervision of Chief Factor John McLoughlin, the first of many new Company posts were erected in the Pacific Northwest, eventually extending its dominion as far as Alaska.

And as to the ADMINISTRATIVE and POLITICAL CONTEXT *

I fully quote the following .

Administrative and Political Context

The Columbia Department of the old North West Company appears never to have been very profitable--in fact, between at least 1818 and 1821 the department incurred losses. [4] After the merger with the Hudson's Bay Company, the Company's Governor and Committee in London considered abandoning the district about which it knew little, other than it produced only continuing deficits. [5] Two principal considerations, however, balanced against abandonment. First, it served as a geographic buffer for the proven riches of the neighboring, profitable New Caledonia trade, against Americans plying the Pacific coastal trade. Second, the Company's occupation of the area south of the 49th parallel, through its fur-trading posts, was perceived as a means of strengthening British claims of land north of the main branch of the Columbia River in the unresolved boundary dispute with the United States. By the spring of 1823 London had decided to continue operations in the Columbia district "for the present."

Village,

and then the productive years...! (as per trade and development)

And obvious SETTLEMENT strategies and policies *

II. FORT VANCOUVER: TRANSITION, 1829-1846 (continued)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1829-1846

The period between 1829 and 1846 encompasses the principal period of development of Fort Vancouver under the Hudson's Bay Company. During this time, which begins with a major site development--the move of the fort proper from its original site to the location of the present reconstruction--Fort Vancouver's economic, political and social influence in the region reached its peak. The boundaries of the site were at their greatest extent. The Fort's administrative importance, as vested in Chief Factor John McLoughlin, was supreme in the Pacific Northwest While fur-trading activities declined throughout this period, agricultural activity under the Hudson's Bay Company flourished, with Fort Vancouver as the administrative and producing hub. In addition, many early industrial activities were initiated and developed at the fort--including large-scale timber milling, salmon fisheries, grain milling--which led to its prominence in Pacific Coast trade, with trading connections in Hawaii, California, and Alaska. The fort was the social center for the region throughout most of the period, with balls, plays, picnics and dinners attracting settlers from many miles away. During the latter years of this period, the Company's stores at the fort and cattle, seed, and produce from its fields, provided the first waves of American settlers in the region with the means to establish their farms--in some cases with the means to survive their first winter; these operations had a significant influence on the settlement of the region, from Puget Sound in Washington to the Willamette Valley in Oregon, and east as far as the Dalles, Oregon. Against a backdrop of the influx of American settlers, with attendant political and economic agendas and under a threatened imminent settlement of the northwest boundary dispute between Great Britain and the United States, the period ended with two events of particular significance: first, the signing of the Oregon Treaty of 1846, finally resolving the boundary issue; second, London's decision to terminate McLoughlin's superintendency of Fort Vancouver.

Village,

and finally as to the GEOPOLITICAL NATURE of the BRITISH

GOVERNMENT themselves, as to the relationship it had with the HUDSON BAY COMPANY... I offer the following: ( again from a wonderfully researched document that sheds the light of day on the Fur Trade itself and on the Territories and Settlement questions ensuing from this enterprise. And I quote:

Although the Hudson's Bay Company's exclusive license for English trade west of the Rockies was not due to expire until 1842, the Governor and Committee decided in 1837 to attempt to secure license renewal, before a change in government could adversely affect the Company's monopoly. At the time, the Company's arrangement with the British government was under fire in Parliament, particularly since fur-trading was not seen as compatible with colonization. [114] To bolster its request, the Company stressed its intent to promote settlement and develop export trade through expansion of agricultural efforts, thereby increasing British interests and influence in the region and reinforcing its physical possession of the territory under dispute with the United States. Simpson reported from his North American headquarters that at Fort Vancouver, "...we are directing our attention to agriculture on a large scale, and there is every prospect that we shall soon be able to establish important branches of export trade from thence in the articles of wool, tallow, hides, tobacco, and grain of various kinds." [115]

and in conclusion : This report had this to say..

The Hudson's Bay Company was politically committed to encouraging settlement. In addition, it was evident colonists were needed to develop the territory's agricultural potential. However, the Company was adverse to any disruption of the fur trade, and wished to control the number of settlers and their impact on the Company. The terms for immigrant settlers were generous with the loan of seed, livestock, and materials, but the offer allowed only for a lease of land, and one-half of any increase in livestock or agricultural produce, the Puget's Sound Agricultural Company to take the remaining half. [118]

The Company believed its former employees already established on farms in the Willamette Valley were one source of settlers for the lands north of the Columbia River. French Canadians on the Willamette had repeatedly requested the services of a priest from the Bishop of Juliopolis, head of the Roman Catholic missions east of the Rockies, located at the Red River settlement in what is now Canada. [119] In 1837 the Bishop asked the Company to assist the overland passage of two Roman Catholic priests to the Columbia region, which the Company agreed to do if the priests would persuade the Willamette settlers to relocate to the new farm areas north of the Columbia, conditions which were accepted. [120] However, these settlers had no interest in leaving their established and freely-owned farms and nascent communities. As McLoughlin wrote to London in 1840:

Village,

The settlements of fur

The settlements of fur company employees in Oregon had nothing to do with settlement patterns or governance or anything else in British Columbia; land alienation and settlement goals in the Island and Gold Colonies were of a completely different order and on a completely different agenda. Whatever book you're quoting endlessly in unnecessary and quite unreadable boldface seems clearly American-written in tone/orientation, which I find amusing; but maybe that's all you can get in the Colville Rez library?

The HBC was politically committed to settlement, i.e. in London, to London politicians, in order to retain and extend its licenses in the region; for this they created the Puget's Sound Agricultural Company, to prove to their political masters and opponents that they were trying; but it was a sham, no actual in-migration took place, the farming company became a proxy for mercantiling goods that the HBC normally didn't deal in, specifically dairy and meat for Russian America which wasn't covered by their fur trade business license. Actual on-the-ground policy by HBC staff, namely Douglas, was to cast a wary eye on prospective settlers and not be all that welcoming (including being kinda nasty to Governor Blanshard, in fact, although that was a slightly different matter). There was no active encouragement of settlement until the aftermath of the Fraser Gold Rush, and that only begrudgingly and under much strictker terms than the very liberal settlement policies osuth of hte line. This is all covered in detail in DJ Hauka's

, and any casual reading of mainstream BC histories as well as modern academic/ideological essays dealing with the fur trade talks about the restrictive policies and attitudes towards settlement by HBC management. HBC board members and HBC political backers in London is a different thing.....

And just because something's in prin t doesn't mean it's true. That applies to this article and the book you're quoting from as much as it does Mein Kampf or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The book you're quoting from at least seems to have been written by someone whos' read somep of the sources, albeit without fully understanding them;

[HIGHLY OFFENSIVE AND INFLAMMATORY COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Ed. - can you fix taht quote/italics mistake

I'm sorry, I know, use "preview"....

I'm away for the week end : off to the Willamette Valley ..

Contractual obligations and all.Hopefully this Forum will still be alive when I return.

Meanwhile , think Canada, Think British Columbia and then think of the two Vancouver's that make up part of the riddle, puzzle and enignma of this region of ours..,

No wonder Cascadia is being communicated about as one of the outcomes of this connundrum..., We are all indeed STRANGERS IN A STRANGE LAND. ( Bar none )..,

''And everytime I put my foot to the earth it reaches up to meet me.''

QUOTE : from THE DOOR*.. A fascinating essay on life itself. It's first line is very fitting to this discussion.

Take Care..

Village,

Hmmm

Cascadia eh? Business trip eh? Has Whitey contracted you to help sell the idea to the Indians?

Village - Fatuous and vacuous

More overblown mumbojumbo and half-baked mysticism.....there is no "riddle, puzzle and enigma" why there are two Vancouvers; and if you knew this region's history (which you don't) you'd know there were three Vancouvers - Vancouver Island was what was meant by "Vancouver" until Van Horne (or was it Strathcona) chose the name for what had been Granville. B..I. ("Vancouver" was one of our first federal ridings, and was Vancouver Island, for example). There's also a New Vancouver among the villages of the Kwakwaka'wakw.

Preachers of Cascadia as some kind of solution for the region always seem to rely on jumbled-up history and quasi-mystical hype; well, except for the bankers and financiers who are pushing their own version of the Cascadia agenda, right alongside trippy-dippies [OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]. Strange bedfellows, with Cascadia hippies playing right into the hands of the big-capitalist economic-integration agenda.....

Village - fatuous and vacuous (continued)

And then there's the conundrum that such fatuous babblers as village are ready to surrender democratic principles for quasi-theocratic systems of nobility inherent in putting "sacred" elders and chiefly positions as some kind of a priori "divine right" over the "settler" population. We don't have a democratic system; one run by types like Chief Bob and his elders would be even less so...."consensus" is not in the equations of such people unless it means agreeing with everything they demand and/or agreeing to believe in whatever ridiculous rewrite of history suits their vanities and insecurities....

I still want to know - [PERSONAL AND OFFENSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT THE WRITER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.], and why is The Tyee not concerned with facts and accurate historical information in its oh-so-preachy articles. "A tale of joyous rebirth" was how this article was bylined and its utter piece of historical piffle was treated with any kind of seriousness at all.

The Tyee should be embarrassed but perhaps it's really all about publishing inflammatory articles so as to get lots of repeat hits on the article-page with each post so as to bolster revenues. But publishing false news, and deliberately whipping up controversy - that's tabloidism and it seems that The Tyee has no more shame than The Province or, for that matter, [i[The National Enquirer.

Weyler's rantings and strung-together-half-facts are not "stellar journalism". They're propaganda, printed by [i]The Tyee as if they were factual and accepted views. They're not, unless you smoke enough Slocan/Colville dope and are ready to believe anything some hippie with a native pedigree wants to wish into reality.

[INFLAMMATORY AND OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. YOU'VE MADE YOUR POINT. -MODERATOR. ]

another Vancouver

There's also the Vancouver River and Vancouver Bay, which were named before either Fort Vancouver or the city of Vancouver. I imagine that's an enigma, too, huh, village?