That's offensive r/man

And I'd suggest you know it is.

Why do you post that kind of thing?

exactly!

Offensive... and inaccurate

R/man's math sucks so bad he can't parse what Judy's saying.

It's all good though. Comments like that point out just how bankrupt the fella's heart is... and why he and his ilk are unfit to lead or offer guidance when dealing with problems brought on by the corporate welfare system they like to mislabel as a free market.

also

Not that your plan doesn't have some good points. I'll bet it would take days if not an entire week for the H.A. to figure out a way to get drugs and booze into Bobby's Northern Happyland... and at a nice premium for having to ship it up north too.

Practical ideas

Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

One solution

One dictum.

Instead of; If you build it, they will come. It's: If they come, you will build it.

What kind of solution is that and why should hard working taxpayers dig into their pockets to pay for it?

Bus tickets, maybe.

No, really

Well, we have to do something about the homeless. 'Educating' them- to use a lame liberal left term, is useless as it doesn't solve the immediate problem of delivering care and housing to them. Of course, the left argument and solution starts with blaming the 'rich'- whoever the rich are, and making someone or the govt throw a tonne of money at some big, ill defined programme. Usually, the argument involves generating guilt among the middle classes.

This is a waste of time as the real solution is housing and treating as many homeless as possible in a sustainable fashion. This is what I meant by suggesting they be moved to the cheapest land in BC. Whatever their individual stories, they need treatment delivered in the most cost effective fashion.

Instead, the govt makes piecemeal solutions around Hastings where alot of agencies have a vested interest in poverty pimping.

bobby peru

I didn’t realize that education was a term solely owned but the left, but then again, with the ingenious solutions suggested by folk like Bobby Peru, I quickly realize that educated solutions may not be part of the right’s policy making toolkit.

Bobby can seem to define the rich, but he can define the middle class, the homeless, the liberal left, etc. Nice diversion Bobby, try again!

Are there some issues that you need to address?

Agreed.

What do you mean, like a concentration camp?

Why is it an agency that runs programs aimed at the homeless or at-risk populations has to be 'poverty pimping' - a term that makes no sense whatsoever and is just a term that the right throws around in a vain attempt to be clever. If you wish to critique agencies like PIVOT, then go for it, but please Bobby, try to avoid statements that don't elicit an immediate eye roll.

oops

last sentence should read:

try to avoid statements that elicit an immediate eye roll.

bobby peru and Fort Long Johns.

Vancouver does not own the franchise on this serious problem, it is becoming rampant throughout the province. Many small towns ( pop 3500 + ) yes, that's thirty five hundred and up, are at their wits end trying to come up with some type of affordable resolve to this serious issue. This issue was not born from one single issue e.g. the Olympics (which I don't support) but a broad spectrum of mainly uncontrollable forces. The only exception being the audacity of closing down of the mental help facilities, such as River View. This only exacerbated the problem of the homeless. Moving them to Fort Long Johns is totally out of the question, medically , financially, morally, plainly this is a "nutty" idea that will never wash.

whatever the numbers!

No matter what the real count of homeless people is, one is too many.

BC (and Canada) needs to develope continuums of support for homeless people and use a triage approach to resolving this issue. This travesty is what we deserve for electing trickle-down economic, big business-at-all-costs, federal, provincial, regional and municipal politicians. This is what we deserve for electing politicians that do not place the needs of electorate above themselves and their friends.

why do the bobbies

and the Fort people only show up when there are "numbers" involved in an article.
What is this fascination with numbers?
What is it about the poor and the homeless that rankles them so? Gets their goat.
They really go for the poors don`t they? Brings `em on out. Outs `em.
ahh the waning days of Babylon.
Blame is relative...who controls the blame patterns..who controls the blame patterns...to blame down..the poor and homeless..and not up..the chisellers and pimps.
Is it learned in schools?

Think BIG

Homelessness in Vancouver will never be solved until a critical mass of people in Canada and around the world become engaged.

Unfortunately, mainstream news media, which have access to a large cross section of society, are preventing the message from reaching the average person who has the collective power to demand that Canada’s homeless be treated fairly and humanely.

The secret to mobilizing the masses
is to inspire them to move all at once.

Today, 02/12/07, the editorial board of The Vancouver Sun made light of our homeless, and of people like David Eby, and me, and all of you, when they published the following;

“However, the Olympics are about sports and sportsmanship; they are not about social issues, or righting perceived historical wrongs, or addressing other policy priorities, despite the attempt of a few ineffectual protestors to make it so.”

This statement is absurd, and if they were referring to chinchillas instead of humans PETA would be all over them and would have taken it global in a heartbeat.

The 2010 Olympics is the main reason so many homeless are being turfed out on the street. VANOC needs space to house the workers and volunteers building the 2010 program. It isn’t speculation. It’s fact based on research and history from other Olympics regions.

The Olympics is no longer about sport. It is about money and politics. It is about “Owning The Podium,” and about winning as much gold as possible in an effort to boast of superiority.

If the Olympics were still about sport, Canadian athletes wouldn’t be living in poverty while Olympics sponsors like RBC boast of how much they help amateur athletes.

Mr. Eby, I respect you, but unless you galvanize Canadians, and Americans, and Europeans, and Asians, and the rest of the world you will never reach your goal of helping the homeless in the face of the giant international Olympics machine.

Sun Tzu taught that you must know your enemy, but you must also know your allies.

Homelessness is a local issue, but it is a global problem, especially as it relates to the Olympics. Look outside our border for help.

Last week in The Tyee I suggested that we enlist the help of international celebrities, and some people criticized me, but others actually took the time to email Oprah Winfrey to ask her to come back to Vancouver to see what she thinks about our homeless issue.

One lady even emailed me and suggested that we approach someone like music activist Steve Earle, who just happens to be playing Vancouver in March. Her idea is brilliant, maybe even better than mine regarding Oprah.

Think local. Act Global. Time is running out. Email Oprah, and Steve Earle.

If you don’t know what to say, read this first.

first of all the 15,000

first of all the 15,000 figure is bogus. secondly,how could we not have homelessness? our culture has been liberalized drastically since 'the pet' ruled with a chiffon wrist for so many years. many of our welfare recipients are third generation. it's a way of life that is acceptable and routine for them and there are absolutely no incentives to pull up their socks and take care of themselves. it's also an industry for the left. do they really want to see it disappear?

The 2010 Olympics is the

The 2010 Olympics is the main reason so many homeless are being turfed out on the street... Homelessness is a local issue, but it is a global problem, especially as it relates to the Olympics.

How one can co-relate the two-week Olympic event with homelessness I will never know.

Awaken the Force

Luke,

Read this ...

Regards,

Obi

Crash and Burn!

I wonder what the look on all your faces will be when the fraudulent economic system as we know it self destructs. I'm guessing it'll be the same bewildered look as those starving and homeless as seen each day on TV. What happened? Those that believe they are born into the ruling class have decided that the resource base can no longer support even the 6.6 billion people who are just trying to eke out a living on this dying planet. Caught up in an experiment of wealth creation that is neither sustainable nor supportive for human existance, the fall out will be wide and all inclusive. Your ridiculous university degree in economics, your house and foreign car and a life style you had no business having in the first place will dissappear as the rug is pulled from beneath you. Just as it has for the farmer in Africa who lost his land, livestock and modest mud home. Why should you be exempt? Where does John the painter go without the support of his friends? The wealth collected by the priveledged few will be protected because they are the Military Industrial Complex. They control the energy and the food distribution and theres very little you can do about it. The only thing you have is a vote and you can't even think enough for yourself to use it for interests other than your own. Societies collapse for the exact reasons happening today, only the scale is changed. The priniciapls of the left or of social democracy at least attempt to try and build on common good, but those of you that have a bit of money choose to grab at the carrot dangled in front of you by the likes of Bush, Harper, Campbell and their corporate masters. Then you wave it in the faces of those without and say look what I've got, why can't you go get one? You are pathetic. Yes, I wonder what the look on your faces will be when it's all taken away.

cost factors

No. YOU WANT the treatment delivered in the most cost effective fashion.

When the firefighter cuts you out of a car wreck, do you care whether he's on overtime, or if the jaws of life were the best value for the money? Of course not. You just want some help.

The whole problem with this issue is a fixation on cost... esp. when we clearly have the $$$ to deal with it. Why is that the 'right' understands you have to invest to make money, right up until that investment is in people?

Isn't it interesting to find

Isn't it interesting to find both the "great" economic theories of the past century, communism and capitalism, ending up with the same problem of huge destitution feeding the insatiable power demands of self appointed, ideologically pure ruling elites?

Ed Deak,

The Money Shot Luke

excerpt from Leverage Olympic Momentum

You probably think you’ve heard it all, but there is one more thing – when rents go up so do the number of homeless people, and welfare will cost you money.

There is a serious downside to gentrification. It displaces people bordering on the fringe of poverty – the same people who are relied on by small and midsize businesses to fill out their minimum-wage workforce. Gentrification creates a whole new problem because overnight there will be nowhere for minimum wage workers to live.

Vancouver already has the highest per capita rate of homeless people in all of Canada. Homeless people cannot hold down a steady job because they don’t have a solid base from which to operate. If you think responsible minimum-wage workers will immigrate here once they hear about the cost of living, forget it – in fact, 6,553 left B.C. in the fourth quarter of 2005 for opportunities in Alberta’s fossil fuel industry and related blue collar opportunities. They might be uneducated, but they’re not brain dead.

Bottom line, you won’t have a minimum wage workforce. Think this is poppycock? In Sydney the number of inhabitants of homeless shelters increased by three times in seven years leading up to 1999. Plus, sixty-five percent had never lived in a shelter in the past and over fifty percent were from outside of Sydney. Olympic organizations still proudly boast Sydney 2000 was the best Olympics ever. If this is the best, you don’t want to see the worst.

In Salt Lake City you can sell your blood if you get really hungry. No kidding. Homeless people line up early each morning at the blood banks to sell a pint or two. The really smart ones sleep on the street outside the door. Go ahead Google ‘selling blood salt lake city’ for a first person experience. It’s an Olympic legacy to be proud of. (hjl56; vs20)

You’re probably thinking, come on, Olympic organizations have been through this many times before. They must have a solution. Sure they do, but you won’t like it.

In order to find enough workers during the Games they invite transient workers from around the world to the region. Governments actually rewrite visa regulations to make it easy for transient backpackers to come into town and work for minimum wage – or sometimes, just room and board. You have to find dishwashers and clean up crews somewhere.

In some cases youthful transients from out of town will get the paying jobs while local youth end up as volunteers. How’s that for a kick in the pants?

In Sydney, food and hotel industries actually favored middle-class transients over working-class local youth. (hjl57)

If you still don't get it Luke, buy my book.

the left has always had the

the left has always had the same answer for every problem: throw money at it. doesn't work. never will. citizens need to be taught, from a young age, that they reap what they sow. our society has become too dependent on the government. remember the LIP programs that the libs introduced in the early 70's? pay people for doing bullshit work? that was the beginning. when the grants ran out they turned to welfare. today we have full employment and able-bodied 20somethings are sitting on denman street asking me for my tooneys. what's wrong with this picture?

throw money at it

You mean like financing a giant sporting event... or building roads that will be empty in fifty years? Perhaps you refer to giving unelected officials a cool grand for a phone meeting? It seems like throwing money at things crosses the left-right divide.

'building roads that will be

'building roads that will be empty in fifty years'?????
been reading john wyndham lately?

reading

Nope. Just been paying attention. When a technology outlives its usefulness it fades away. Cars will soon be too expensive to fuel, and deliver so little time-savings due to congestion, most people will start to wise up and ride the bus or train to work. The truly smart ones will live within walking/biking distance of their job or tele-commute.

This is of course, utterly obvious to the dispassionate observer, but harder to fathom if you've invested some part of your self-image into owning or using a car.

Economics Graduate!

Should have taken math simon, then you would understand simple equations like doubling time and exponential growth, you know, as in compound interest. At 7% growth it doubles in 10 years. With very modest global population growth of say 1.25% in 750 years there would be one person for every m2 of land on earth! Now that's a lot of customers! Urban planners can look at the Fraser Valley and say really it's only 20% developed! Plenty of room! Lets build more! Simple growth of say 3%, not a farm exists in 100 years. We'll stop sometime you say. Ok, when?

Let's look at our dysfunctions ...

Many people think success is measured by the car(s) and the house(s) (and the spouse(s)*) one has. It is very simple! That's happiness, folks! Work! Work! Work! (Or see your money grow if you happened to have an heir who made it illegally or not).

Many women and men are too blame! Women usually look for money, so many guys do what they need to be snatched up (if you think that's the opposite, think again)! (Many women feel a bit guilty and volunteer [while the husband is slaving away. The bottom line she looks even better! Smoke and mirror!) ]Of course, many women will give big breaks to the TDH (especially if they have money). And women are very smart. Sometimes, they look for what the parents have. The guys might be the epitomy of a slacker, but if the parents have a few houeses or are doctors, hey, things might be ok in the long run.) And men, well, we know what they are looking for. This whole homelessness issue is about priority (me vs community). It is also about a system and a culture. I don't see it changing! Of course, we need to help these kids in Africa. Right? NIMBY!

Of course, with the big O coming, whatch the clean up act! Houdini would be impressed!

Of course, there is the fight drug fiasco! Let's give an IQ tests to the ones who think that this problem can be fixed predominantly by enforcement. Sure! It has really worked! You bet! What did Einstein say about insanity: repeating something and expecting a different outcome.

At the ned of the day, many GREEDY capitalist/speculator (and probably his wife) doesn't give a $%^& about the guy or the girl on the street. Let's bill a gate! And a bigger one if that does not work! And put police on every corner too!

Education is the solution (and, much more for dysfunctional families: rich or not). A just society where the rich don't have 3 boats! Capital > Cap it all!

Anyway, this is useless. Am I trying to convert the converted?

* who (if you are a guy) needs to be a gorgeous women or who (if you are a woman) needs to be a TallDarkHandsome (subsitute H for M for money, if one does not have any.

lots of chicken little's

lots of chicken little's around here. sounds like you guys have been listening to the all-suzuki station. in '84 he predicted that there would be no trees left in b.c. by '04 and there would be no oil reserves left in the world by 2010. i don't buy a word this quack says.

Oh! And I forgot ...

Most women should keep their ovaries for themselves! We have enough people on Earth, if you haven't noticed! Put a condom over your whole body, maybe adopt a kid or two, do not try to convert them to be a slave to a religion or a church or a possibility of a second life. Sorry for the rant, but I am POed by people in general!

It's simple Simon

And less cars on the road equals the sky falling why exactly? Less smog, fewer accidents, faster travel times for those who can't avoid using the four-wheeled cage... yeah, that's a real hell on Earth.

Who mentioned Suzuki... except you, in an attempt to ignore the valid points that make your argument farcical?

I don't think Suzuki ever said any such thing Simonfraser

I think you're just spinning your tires to try and create enough smoke so you can get outta here.

Here's what the Suzuki Foundation has to say about forestry in BC.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:iycrzPvTlXUJ:www.davidsuzuki.org/Forests/Canada/BC/Overcut/Economy.asp+David+Suzuki+trees+left+in+BC&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=ca

I doubt you're actually interested though.

"The Market" ueber alles?

Perhaps I'm just too stupid to understand, but isn't "The Market" supposed to reward all those people willing to work hard, etc, and in doing so, remove the need for the "Social Safety Net"?

I acknowledge that there are those who are unwilling to work, but what about the so-called "working poor", single mothers etc, who are holding down two or three jobs, and working 10-12 hrs a day at minimum wage, yet stuck on a subsistence treadmill they are unable to exit?

We could, of course, ship them all North, to places outside the city, but how many of these are there that don't already have severe unemployment/housing problems?

And if we exile them to the genuine boondocks, how much would it cost us to place and keep them there?

Reliance upon "The Market" To solve any of the recurrent societal problems that have been plaguing civilisations throughout the centuries is a false hope indeed. We've seen plenty enough proof of that already.

You're right ME2

The market is just the current name for the excuse privilege has for hanging on to its entitlements while angling to grab a little more. It has no 'genius' and is, in most of its manifestations, not much more than a slave master...as current attitudes toward the disadvantaged always tend to demonstrate.

Basically, 'Shut the Hell up, stay away from me and don't let your shadow cross my path!'

If there actually was 'real' competition - a la Adam Smith - there might be a case for using the market.

But there isn't and the tax system and corporate welfare make sure the effects of the market are cushioned for the hoi polloi while it hammers the poor, the working poor and the majority of the middle class.

simple Simon says

simonfraser, Bobby Peru, if you people, and those who think alike, feel your insulated or immune from the unfortunate, pitfalls of the homeless,the mentally ill, drug addicts, alcoholism, etc, your not living a realistic life. At this very moment, as most of these unfortunate people are living amongst one another, there is a very serious disease spreading throughout thier society, a super bug, a strain of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA. Don't think for one second that this disease can't come to your door, your kitchen table, your food at a restaurant, to your doctors office, where you could be seated next to a carrier. Still think you can ignore the homeless, along with the diseases associated with that life style. You can run, but you can't hide from these things.

Some math ... Poor and poorer forever?

Coorect me if I am wrong, but, let's say, one gets a 5% wage increases when one makes a yearly salary (after tax) $10,000 or $100,000, isn't the 5% unfair even though both are getting the same rate of increase. One is getting $500 and the other $5000. Does the none who has 100,000 need $4,500 more than the former? And, aren't the next (assuming they have the same rate) increases going to exacerbate the spread more and more in a more accentuate way by birtue of compounding of gains? Is this common knowledge and true? If not, can one enlighten me as to why we are continuying with increases using % as opposed to a fix amount?

"simonfraser"

And yet whether its the Liberals under Gordon Campbell or the Conservatives under Grant Devine, you guys on the Right outspend the NDP.

I bet its gotta suck when facts get in the way of a really good line.

Agreed, what would business do if they couldn't rely on government spending? I'm glad to hear you've changed your mind and are now against the Olympics and all the other boondoggles.

Perhaps Canada doesn't have full employment? Again, don't drop a good story just because a "fact" asks you for help.

Really? I look forward to reading your abundant research on the topic.

In the words of someone more learned...

Well said, Frank. It's always a pleasure watching you hold up the mirror so someone with a low forehead can poke his own eye out. I just wish there was a more efficient way to do it - it gets repetitive doing it one-at-a-time, over and over again...

the mirror

Thank you Zalm, especially when it comes from someone like yourself that consistently posts such high quality comments.

He's Slippery when wet

like a whale and its his diet that will do him in and there should be a posture of him saying do you want to look like this? Your right this man is the enemy especially to those in need of housing and not make shift tents where they get badly burned from trying to stay warm. It will be to late for many have contracted diseases which are doing them in makes you wonder if thats more like the plan because thats exactly what is happening sickness and disparatation and death all thanks to the efforts of Mr. Coleman and lets not forget the voters who are into heartless whales.