A Little Selective, I would Say...

[INACCURATE AND PERSONAL SLIGHT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.] But my thinks that digging in that case was done by a toothbrush.....

Well, if they have, I haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

once again 'the tyee' should

once again 'the tyee' should be embarrassed about running such a petty and ridiculous article.

[PERSONALLY INSULTING COMMENT REMOVED. AGAIN, WE WELCOME AND ENCOURAGE CRITICISM OF OUR EDITORIAL CHOICES BUT DO *NOT* ALLOW PERSONAL INSULTS DIRECTED AT OUR CONTRIBUTERS, STAFF, OR COMMENTERS. -MODERATOR.]

This is great Andrew

[AGAIN...INSULTS DIRECTED AT TYEE CONTRIBUTERS AND STAFF ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THIS FORUM. -MODERATOR.]

clubofrome

Please describe the mechanism. New laws, or something else?

Environment minister Barry

Environment minister Barry Penner has a roommate from whom he gets rental income.

Just like many others I know.

As for all MLA's investments, I say good for them!

alive

That would be something I'd like to see. Obviously Mulroney was well taken care of by his masters after he stepped down.

realisticman(sic) you're at it again

The sentence you quoted didn't end where you stopped. The whole thought was:

Incarcerate those who promote and drive the growth = progress fallacy.

IT makes a BIG difference, as you well (or at least ought to) know.

Selective and out of context quotation is a big thing for you isn't it?

Frank, he's some to help - since you asked.

Mulroney currently sits on the board of directors of multiple corporations, including Barrick Gold, Quebecor Inc. and Archer Daniels Midland. He remains a partner with the law firm Ogilvy Renault.

After leaving the NDP Ed Broadbent was director of the International Centre for Human Rights and Democratic Development.

Larry Campbell COPE mayor of Vancouver became a Liberal Senator.

Sask NDP Premier (April 4, 2001) Romanow was appointed to head the Royal Commission on the Future of Health Care in Canada by Governor General Adrienne Clarkson, on the advice of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien.

Svend's OK too. Robinson was employed by the British Columbia Government and Service Employees Union as an arbitrator and advocate. He also served on the NDP's federal executive as co-chair of the party's LGBT Committee. Robinson has taken a position with trade union federation Public Services International based in Paris, France.

NDP Premier Dan Miller. In early 2005 he was hired by the BC Government as an advisor for the province's offshore oil and gas development team, and has also worked for a major pipeline company and a forest company since leaving office.

clubofrome

Someone using the moniker GWest claimed my previous query incomplete. Although I'm sure you understood and so did anyone with the capability of reading. Nevertheless, here again:

Please describe the mechanism. New laws, or something else?

Thank you for the abject apology and sincere correction

Obviously, you believe that growth does equal progress.

An increasingly large number of citizens no longer accept this kind of propagandistic orthodoxy.

And for very good reason since so much of the progress is not being made by the people who really could use a little of it.

I think you're familiar with both the mechanism and the fact it doesn't work - as club points out, the effect of slavish adherence to the principle is seriously jeopardizing the future of the planet...

Mulroney gets 110G a year from Archer Daniels Midland - but it didn't stop him from picking up those sacks of thousand dollar bills - which, by the way, the RC Mint no longer produces because they're such a convenient way to launder drug money.

Realisticman

Actually there is no question mark in my post and I'm confused as to what view your answer supports.

Perhaps you were responding to alive?

GWest

The query was for clubofrome

Your guess has no foundation;

I'd like to know how incarceration, as described, could be achieved.

Frank, perhaps you forgot. Someone named Frank wrote;

preceding;

Glad to be of help.

Realisticman

Quote:

That would be something I'd like to see.

preceding;

So in other words you were responding to my quote of what alive asked.

Although its nice to hear what 4 NDP guys did I'd like to hear something from the other parties since they were actually in power.

Not much point in making a deal with Broadbent when he's not writing policy is there?

Yep, I think actual federal cabinet ministers would be more interesting than Svend and Ed.

Nice to see Romanow was clean.

Once upon a time....

...it was "understood" that to enter the political arena was benefit personally, if not first and foremost, then certainly as a sidebar to public duty. At one time (for instance), insider trading was NOT illegal.

Also, at one point in time, one entered the military in hopes of gathering plunder so to cushion one's existence in civilian life (in addition to doing one's duty).

Both practices have since been frowned upon -- but it doesn't mean they've been stopped.

Oh really - it wasn't a guess.

All I did was point out your selective and out-of-context use of club's words. In addition, that his statement was meaningless the way you quoted it.

I agree with club that corporations, directors and shareholders ought to be held criminally liable for their actions - so do the courts in both this country and the United States. For confirmation please see David Radler; Conrad Black; Jeff Skilling; Martha Stewart and a host of others including Dwayne Andreas formerly of Archer Daniels Midland.

The co-option of ethics and morality by the quest for growth and profits has brought a lot of otherwise intelligent and talented people low. It's long past time we realized the growth does not equal progress.

In fact, in a world with scarce resources and a threatened climate, growth is, as club suggests, often criminal.

As for commenting on anything here - seems to me that's fair game and you simply have trouble fighting a fair fight. If you stopped trying to score cheap snert-like points, you might do a lot better. For an intelligent guy you end up on the losing side of almost every fight you pick.

What Conflict?

Denizens of Howe St must be concerned at how few of their (Liveral) MLAs have a personal stake in local corporations.Was the list incomplete? Or is the pay alone enough to keep these members in line?

"...shareholders ought to be

"...shareholders ought to be held criminally liable for their actions"

That's silly.

To again re-iterate, majority shareholders of all corporate concerns are union pension funds as well as mom and pops investing in stocks/mutual funds, either directly or through their RRSPs.

In other words, that's both you and me.

LS

And how does this excuse them exactly? Sounds suspiciously like you are advocating being "only a little bit pregnant".........

no it's not it's simple ethics and decent morality.

Moreover, it's long past time that everyone start taking 'responsibility' for their actions AND their investments.

The guys toting the food wagons in the 39 - 45 unpleasantness were as much a part of the Nazi horror machine as Himmler and Adolph. All the little hangers on at Enron were just as bad as the frenetic investors who tried to cash in on Bre-X. They all, and you, seem to want something for nothing.

No free rides and no excuses for folks who think they deserve a cushy retirement more than the coffee pickers deserve a living wage.

The attitude that anyone gets a pass is criminal luke - here and in the empire.

GWest

Today you say:

The guys toting the food wagons in the 39 - 45 unpleasantness were as much a part of the Nazi horror machine as Himmler and Adolph.

Yet yesterday, in response to a comment from a poster, "...the pension trustees aren't elected to government, but they are elected by their representative unions--BCTF, CUPE, BC Hydro, etc. All are in the same pool. What is the same is the hypocrisy--unions pretending to have a social conscience and making very poor investment choices (from an ethical point of view)." you said:

Explain the difference, please.

"The guys toting the food

"The guys toting the food wagons in the 39 - 45 unpleasantness were as much a part of the Nazi horror machine as Himmler and Adolph. All the little hangers on at Enron were just as bad as the frenetic investors who tried to cash in on Bre-X. They all, and you, seem to want something for nothing."

Ummmmm... huh????? lol, is that cryptic bafflegab??? lol

I'm talkin' 'bout the blue chip TSX/ NSE whose shares are owned by union pension funds as well as middle-class moms and pops, just like me, representing the vast majority of the populace.

I can only assume that you are not included in that demographic?

Read ZALM's post

Everyone has to start taking responsibility - not just the guys and gals you like to pick on.

I'm surprised I have to explain something so fundamental to you.

MONEY Quote:

Moreover, it's long past time that everyone start taking 'responsibility' for their actions AND their investments.

What do you think I've been saying here for months on every single issue? Or were you, as I often suspect, just being snert-like most of the time?

I contacted the Provincial NDP caucus today to find out where the list of charities (you know the ones to whom they promised to devote their new raises to) is.

They haven't got back to me yet.

When they do, or even if they don't, you'll hear about it.

Next question.

Luke - WHATEVER

See above.

The words are clear and unambiguous.

What or who I am is none of your business - especially as a question from an anonymous poster who uses a George Lukas Star Wars handle as a nom de plume.

Like most of my interlocutors, you’d rather get personal than get 'real'.

You're wasting my time.

I say old chap

GWest

Isn't that a bit rich coming from a self confessed two-timing poster like you, GWest/Alcibiades?

I thought that was a decent question;

Luke

And I gave it the answer it deserved

This is no place for personal remarks and handles are why we don't make them. Luke just needs to read the response I wrote to your, not very dissimilar, question.

And you both need to go back and read what zalm wrote on the subject.

As for the kind of prejudicial remarks that come down on every union (of which I am not a member) around here - well, if you haven't noticed, it's simply the way folks who can't find a good thing to say about the Campbell government manage to compensate for their evident embarrassment at how bad this bunch actually is.

If you read my post – the one directed to you – you’d see that I’m as suspicious about the provincial NDP caucus as I am about the Campbell clones…not that it’ll make any difference to what you appear to be concerned with all the time.

Is that fair? Because I think it is and I think it pretty much encapsulates what’s going on here..

Apparently it makes you feel good, old chap - it certainly doesn't add anything to a discussion about the investment 'decisions' of our public servants - for whom, I'll remind you - the case was made that more money was needed to 'attract better people' NOT to enable the same old suspects to feather their investment portfolios a little more easily..

Remember?

As for the G West/Alcibiades thing

As I've said countless times - I'm really proud of the year I posted the self-same views under those to labels.

If Luke doesn't know about it, he can read all about it here:
http://thetyee.ca/Views/Teacherdiaries/2007/02/27/BoyTrouble/

And, once again, old chap, thanks for mentioning - I love the free advertising.

GWest

So, you have something against unions? Some of my closest acquaintances are union members. Perhaps you'll agree to join The Writers’ Union of Canada when you publish.

Au contraire

You're the one who has apoplexy about unions my friend - not me. That and, what was it now, 'sustained liberalism' and people turning 'feral'?

It may take a while for you to live those two down.

We need lots more unions and powerful ones who can combine against the 'forces of the Empire', which threatens to overcome us.

I doubt there will be any Canadian publishers left in a couple of years - so apathetic about the future health of the industry in this country have consumers of knowledge become.

However, leave that to me - it's under control.

Nevertheless, that's another question.

I see you haven't beaten that bad habit of quoting people out of context either.
Perhaps go back and read Luke's comment and you'll understand the reason for my remark and why it’s disingenuous of you to cherry pick like that – it also always tends to get you into trouble.

Understanding isn't that difficult - given some effort.

Another day

There was no question mark. Seemed more like a statement to me.

Anyway, if everyone was responsible for what they owned I think corporations would suddenly become a lot more careful about what they did.

I can't understand the thinking of those who say nobody should bear any responsibility for what the organization they partially own, does.

Real laws

The same laws used when Mussolini was hung in a public square...

club

Don't you know that Mussolini was simply disciplining wayward citizens? That many adults need that iron fist or the trains won't run on time?

Child Porn Ltd

So if people invest in a company that makes, distributes and advertises child porn in a country where its not illegal are they wrong to do so?

Or are they simply being smart investors?

Tough love

Yes Frank, and one place we could use a good dose of discipline is with those no good, commie, laze about unions. Imagine wanting fair wages and good working conditions! Free trade really did work for us, as I invested early in sweat shop and child labour. I believe I'm up 1450% since '96

Club

No problemo Club, we now have nearly 20,000 more Canadians that have lost their jobs and I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts there might be a few Right-wing "belief tanks" (I forget who's line that was) even now contemplating a policy of handing out tasers and armbands with those EI cheques in order to keep the rest of the population's feral impulses under control.

Truly a Disaster!

It's a sharp contrast to November, when the economy added a whopping 42,600

Down 18,700 in December but up 42,600 in November. The net gain from just one month earlier was double the next month's loss. Hardly a disaster.

Vancouver and all of BC was unchanged but Victoria was up to a whopping 2.9%.

Take a pill.

clubofrome

More efficient than those cumbersome 'due processes', do you think?

Job Losses in the Forest Industry

2007

Nov. 29 - AbitibiBowater announces indefinite closure of two sawmills and newsprint mill in Mackenzie -- 550 jobs.

Nov. 28 - Canfor announces third-shift cutbacks at Rustad Bros., Clear Lake, Polar and Mackenzie -- about 300 jobs. Earlier shift reductions at Houston and Vanderhoof cut about 80 jobs.

Nov. 5 --Pope & Talbot sawmill in Fort St. James supposed to restart after three-week shutdown, but doesn't. Caught up in bankruptcy proceedings. About 300 jobs.

Oct. 24 - West Fraser announced indefinite idling of Terrace sawmill -- 100 jobs.

August --Stuart Lake Lumber goes down in Fort St. James indefinitely -- about 85 jobs.

July 27 - Canfor announced reductions at Mackenzie sawmill -- 130 jobs.

Feb. 15 - Canfor's OSB mill in Fort Nelson announces cut back -- 20 jobs.

This is only a partial list...I suppose all those good paying jobs have been replaced by late shifts at the local Wendy's.

If you can manage to open the documents below you'll get some kind of an idea about how big a crisis this country is undergoing....

http://canadianlabour.ca/updir/03-27-07ManufacturingCrisisNote.pdf

http://uwfa.ca/2007/08/

And there's lots more available - if you're actually interested in understanding the reality of what's happening around you.

rest of country even worse

You are so right, GW. The last I had heard (3 months ago), 45 mills in BC had closed down - despite being able to blast through beetle wood forest having only to pay salvage rates!

Once the real estate boom subsides, the construction industry will also take a rather large hit. Then there will be very few jobs left.

The rest of the country is even worse off. The pulp and paper industry and the automotive sector is really hard hit, and those jobs bring revenue into the country - unlike Wendy's.

http://www.apma.ca/

Might get worse

Surely, everyone has paid off their debts and saved for this inevitable downturn.

Bio energy coming soon. Maybe some of those planned mines might be approved now.

Wonder how long this good news will last:

Ford's Lincoln Town Car is now made in Canada.

ON what planet are you living?

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/75-001-XIE/comm/11.pdf

Or, if you prefer something a little less technical:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0012689

BTW the fact that Canadian plants are building dinosaurs is simply another sign of bad times to come.

I'm just listening to Peter Lougheed on the radio discussing:
a) the problem with the environment and the oil industry in Alberta including the growth and size of the industry;
b) the problem with all the growth in the economy occurring in one or two areas only, while;
c) development in the rest of the economy and the country is stagnating.

What's coming soon is a nightmare realisticman.

Moreover, believe me, it's going to hang on you guys for what you and your buddies have done to this country and its people.

There are NO SAVINGS.
This is NOT a boom - it's a bomb - and it's ticking!

Town Car on way out

Realistic man says:

Yes, it's manufacture has been moved to the same plant that makes the other Ford (panther series platform) dinosaurs: Mercury Grand Marquis, Ford Crown Victoria.

Despite rumors to the contrary, Ford has announced that they will continue to produce the Grand Marquis through at least 2010.

From Wikipedia:

So it seems, the Lincoln Town Car and the other 2 behemouths will be assembled at the St. Thomas, Ontario plant for 2 years, while Ford Lincoln retools its US plants for building a new flagship model (known internally as E386) based upon a new D-series platform (of which D385 and E386 are to be built).

It is unknown if the Lincoln Town Car will continue to be availiable after 2010. If it survives, it may only live on in the small market as a fleet model for limosine companies!

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107374

Obviously, one needs to research a little deeper than the headlines. The Panther-series chassis cars are on the way out: they are just too heavy. As GW said, they are "dinosaurs". It is but a small reprieve to have the Town Cars assembled in St. Catherines while the chassis is in its death throe.

GWest

There are NO SAVINGS.

What have I done? All I did was work hard, pay down debt and save.

Didn't you save through all the good times? You know that's the prudent thing to do.

What do you suggest, tax derived subsidies for businesses?

Once again

Unfortunately, and this gets you into trouble around here all the time, you make the error of suggesting that this is 'personal' - it isn't. You fail to be able to make the leap of understanding necessary to draw general conclusions from wider data and analyze everything from a strictly personal point of view.

People post here anonymously for good reason - that doesn't mean that they are talking about a specific person A or B. Most personal stories are banal and trite – and they have little or no resonance here – especially since we almost all post under a pseudonym.

Ed Deak, who doesn’t use a label is the exception here and his story, multi-faceted as it is, is central to what he writes. The rest of us, whatever our personal lives may or may not subsume, are simply not interesting or sustainable as ‘characters’ or – for various reasons known to themselves and their families – are not free to tell those stories.

What you have done as 'realisticman' - is to post here all kinds of (in my opinion) dangerous and fallacious notions about the market economy and globalization. You post those ideas and opinions and they have to stand up for themselves against the onslaught of whoever desires to take them on. It has little or nothing to do with you personally.

The facts, the hard economic facts, do not reflect the sanguine view that a rising tide lifts all boats - in fact, exactly the opposite is true. I have, and others have as well, posted facts, statistics, observations, expert opinions and arguments that have, over the months, demonstrated – in my view conclusively – that the intelligence behind ‘realisticman’ is deluded. That’s not meant personally and you’re free to go on believing whatever you like – but don’t, please, pretend that the facts, the evidence, and the logic are on your side.

They aren’t.

What 'you' have done is none of my concern. You may not even have a family so what you know of the realities of trying to actually keep your head above water (as most young people are trying to and have been struggling to do) for years may have absolutely no 'personal' resonance for you.

I simply don't care and your experience of being a hard worker is nothing more than an artifact – Millions of ‘hard’ workers all round the world will never share – even for a moment – the opportunities YOU have simply because of an accident of birth. Even if you are a middle aged black man from the Ivory Coast and a strange conjunction of luck, work and good fortune had plopped you down in the position you hold today it would mean nothing about the fortunes of the people of that benighted land.

conclusion below

finis

The facts, as I have never endingly tried to present them are that we are already in a mess; the average young family and the vast majority of families have no savings - few investments and little or no prospect of achieving any of the perks you seem to think are the sine qua non of life in Canada. And they are, in the main, I’d argue, every bit as intelligent, hard working and deserving of a good and decent life as You are.

That’s as ‘personal’ as it gets.

The facts are out there - choose to ignore them if you wish.

We are in for trouble and we have been ill-served by our politicians and our business men and women. Far from saving this country they - and people who believe their lies - have very nearly ruined it.

In my view, even institutional investments and pension funds are going to start taking horrendous baths before long...just watch! And no, God no, never – no more tax holidays and free money for the thugs who’ve brought us to this pass.

Quote:no more tax holidays

So, any money for anyone?

I could see money spent on R&D for innovations as well as money spent for retraining and education.

What do you think of this:

In a pre-emptive strike, Harper unveiled in Tracyville, N.B., a $1-billion aid package Thursday aimed at bolstering one-industry communities that have been devastated by layoffs and factory and mill closures.

Whatever

Vancouver and all of BC was unchanged but Victoria was up to a whopping 2.9%.

Take a pill.

Expectations were for around 15,000 jobs to be added. The 18,700 lost was thus a difference of about 33,000 from the expectation. This caused the Cdn dollar to tumble.

Apparently not everyone just shrugged and said it meant nothing.

There is indeed the possibility of a real recession and as we all know the Finance Minister and Bank of Canada will do what is best for investors while letting the rest of us hang.

Did you read the article a couple of months back (the link was on the Tyee) about countries whose economies are warped by oil?

You're Right Frank

How often do jobs fall in December of all months. The month when retail/food outlets and delivery services are running with everyone they can hire. It is also a good month for logging as the roads are frozen, the snow is not too deep and the fire danger negligible. Even the most cold-hearted employer often waits for the new year to hand out pink slips. What will January look like?

Don't panic

Google, 'employee shortages bc', and see there are over 61,000 links. Last weekend even the mother CBC ran a story explaining that 45,000 needed employees were arriving in BC from overseas yearly.

Perhaps some perspective is needed.

Rip-offs!

yeah right!
Anytime the government hands out monies for R & D some snakeoil salesman type finds an opportunity to milk the fund for money.
There has never been any end to the "inventions" that can be researched if only the government will pay for buildings, machinery and skilled people.
What would be needed is a selection commitee of people who has practical knowledge to sift the lamebrain schemes away.
And that is where it fails every time!
This country is run by an elite who never lifted a finger in their lives, and have no practical understanding of things, and also have no idea that there are actually people out there who does have a bit of practical sense.

About retraining:
How about an education based on the kind of jobs that may be avaialble in the future?
Earning a bachelor of arts degree is a waste of time and money, for instance, it is basically babysitting for young people who cannot make up their minds as to what they might want to do once Mom and Dad quit supporting them!
Surely those parasite will need retraining, because they never had any worthwhile training other than: "do you want fries with that"?

Canada

It seems you only want to talk about BC's situation. I take it you're not interested in Canada as a whole?

I heard an item of CBC the other day

About a meat hunter from Gibsons who's been bringing guest workers from the Philippines to staff Wendy's wickets and such like.

This is in the same idiotic administration where the Campbell Government has already refused at least a half-dozen times to increase the minimum wage for British Columbia workers who can't afford a decent life here now.

I'll say you need a little perspective!

At the same time, they burn money on a feckless subway line to the airport, throw it away on a bloated and over budget convention centre and play silly buggers around the world with their friends pretending to give a shit about the environment.

There is no hope for these beggers - club had the right idea - they all belong in the crowbar hotel for a few months to keep them from ruining the fundamentals of this province and this country any more than they already have.

You might want to try looking out over the parapet sometime ‘realisticman’ – it’s a jungle out there in the real world.

The argument about 29% raise for MLAs (more for the friggin' Premier and his band of yes men and women) was that the cash was needed to attract better people and help them defray their costs.

Now we find out the slugs are using the extra money to invest and make more.

They should be charged with obtaining funds fraudulently and under false pretenses.

The utter arrogance and contempt these people have for the citizens who are their masters.

By the way – a little more on what the economy has in store for the people:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/business/13econ.html?hp

Does this mean all the supply-siders have now become Keynesians again?

Frank

Well, there will be a decrease in the old manufacturing industries in the east of Canada but that will mean more people will move to the west where business is good. This is good for BC. Interest rates will be kept low to stimulate the economy so housing out west will stay strong. As people have moved west to find work before the same will happen again.

And affordable housing?

And there is no affordable housig in the west now...the forest sector - which is always the backbone of the BC economy is already on its knees - some strong economy!

Once Campbell's little five ring circus is over the shit is really going to hit the fan.

With the exception of a few geeks, some appallingly irresponsible foreign firms to whom Gordo has sold out and Campbell's real estate buddies the economy is a shambles now. Whatever advantage we had with a low dollar is now gone.

Alberta's single engine economy - in the mind of no less and authority than Peter Lougheed - is a mess already and Campbell is too stupid to see that going the same route will be disastrous for this province too. Sadly a majority of BC voters are probably too stupid as well.

People won't move to BC from Ontario in droves and neither will Quebecers - why would they? Our economy has always been far more boom and bust than central Canada's anyway and culturally the west coast is about as vital as a beaker of warm beer.

There is movement among the western provinces but there hasn't been a big migration from central Canada for more than a generation. Ontario's far richer and better aligned to last out economic bad times than BC is anyway. Furthermore, when Harper’s gone, and he will be before too long, the rest of Canada is going to force some environmental accountability on Alberta too – in a way that will make the NEP look like a great deal.

Reality

And if the price of oil remains high so will the dollar and we'll lose our manufacturing and export sectors but its all good because we can all build houses for oil workers.

Again, did you read that article? Do we want to become like other oil-producing countries where eventually the entire economy becomes centred on oil production while everything else is left to go to hell?

You really believe that Canada will be healthy as long as Fort McMurray is?

The East is hurting and its going to get worse. If you were PM and told them what you just told me the East would be justified in separating.

That policy you're suggesting of doing what BC and Alberta want and telling the other provinces to send their people west is ridiculous even when compared to the stuff (snert-like soundbites suggesting black is white, white is black, whatever the case may be) you've been posting lately.

Fortunately I would assume that Harper's wish to win an election will mean he's not willing to tell the rest of Canada to move to Edmonton.

As a footnote, I bet Harper is wishing Flaherty hadn't squandered the surplus right now.

You heard

GWest

Exactly, and he had advertised for ages and received no takers. What would you have him do? Would you tell him to close down because it's a lousy business that's not wanted anyway? I think I've even eaten in a Wendy's once. Not too bad, for that sort of thing. Why did your ancestors move to Canada? To my recollection the Filipina in the story was hoping to bring over a friend or relative too because she was so happy here. Isn't that the history of the world? People moving to where work and a better life is?

You say that there's no affordable housing in the west now. Well then, BC'ers that find it too expensive can move to Regina or Halifax and still be in Canada. It's cheaper to buy a house there. In the past couple of weeks I have been in touch with two companies that recently bought in highly skilled workers from Germany. (By the way, alive, they were all in possession of degrees.) Did they want to? No. Why then? It was a last resort after trying unsuccessfully to recruit here.

Note to, alive, that the University of Northern BC has been voted, for the third year in a row, by Maclean's Magazine fourth among small universities in Canada and best in western Canada.

Academic Themes
Natural Resources and the Environment
Health and Human Development
Commerce and Community Sustainability
Indigenous Peoples’ Knowledge
Global Processes and Perspectives
Artistic and Cultural Expression

BCIT has also recently opened a new 285,000 square foot Aerospace Technology Campus (ATC) with a whole slew of highly specialized courses.

Frank, I see this morning (yesterday's Globe) that 2007 was a record breaking year with 370,000 new jobs created and the richest wage increases in a decade. Certainly puts a 19,000 loss in perspective! As well, unemployment is still at a 33 year low!

Things are still very good, for Canada as a whole.

and the point is?

r-man

You are proving my point!
The "education" we give our young people does not give them the basics they need to obtain a decent job, and compamies have to hire from elsewhere where the system is based on teaching skills that are usefull.

Academic Themes
Natural Resources and the Environment
Health and Human Development
Commerce and Community Sustainability
Indigenous Peoples’ Knowledge
Global Processes and Perspectives
Artistic and Cultural Expression

Yeah right, just what is needed, NOT!
This country has enough mealy headed
experts spending their time classifying and commenting on what other people actually do!
What is needed is people who KNOWS how to do things, and that is not what is being thought.
So, if more universities manage to rank at all, we still are behind where it counts.

Again, you read for sound clips - not content

How many times has the Campbell government failed to raise the obviously too low level of the minimum wage in this economy?

Read the rest of what I wrote, please.

What sense does it make to bring 'guest workers' from the Philippines here for NO MORE THAN TWO YEARS [if you're actually familiar with the program you'll know about that little detail and that these quasi-slaves have to return to their homes after two years] while the Canadians who should be doing those jobs are still forced to try and make do on a dying wage and or two jobs.

This has nothing to do with education and the only point it proves is that government(s) in Canada don't care about:
(a) Their own people;
(b) Any more than they really care about the folks from the Philippines, who have their own set of horrendous (mostly American-created) problems;
(c) And, as always, the only folks who have their ear are their commercial and business buddies, who are;
(d) Remember, the only ones still making the incredibly stupid argument that we don't need an increase in the MINIMUM WAGE.

It's just a slightly different form of the same old colonial mentality - just applied both in, and outside, the nation.

The reason the meat hunters are getting their slaves from across the ocean is because our governments and our business thugs (such as the minister of health eating, Mr Hog(g) care more about profits than people.

WAKE UP MAN, your tendency to resort to snertisms is growing exponentially.

And for God's sake don't try to peddle the idea of guest workers as something which will help the economy of the Philippines in any kind of a sustainable way - we've been through that before.

IT isn’t that jobs can’t be filled with qualified Canadians – it’s simply that one can’t live on the wages the corporate thieves are permitted - nay encouraged - to pay for their services by a corrupt and bought government. SIMPLE.

Every single time we put profits before people – people LOSE.

Marvels of the Global economy

Perhaps you'd enjoy reading this article about the miracle of the Chinese economy (not):

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/world/asia/13china.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Canada untouched? - not

maybe you missed this story last week:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/business/worldbusiness/08bank.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&ref=americas&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

And on a lighter - but not entirely unserious note

http://blip.tv/file/520347

xlnt

blip tv coins clip is great.

stupidity in all forms...?

Andrew McLeod et al.....
You're criticizing Penner and other MLAs for their investments?
Where were you when the MLA's ripped off BC taxpayers by voting themselves the juicy pension package?
By the way - are they still allowed to put unlimited amounts of their pay into RRSPs?

Finland educates. Canada emasculates

Last month's Report on Business featured Finnish forest firms contrasted against Canadian ones. The main difference? Training and education, wherein the Finnish government takes it seriously and does it itself. It may not be the cheapest way of doing it, but it IS cost effective and it prevents companies from ripping off R&D tax breaks and government-subsidized education budgets for capital-replacement purposes (Doman & Domtar to name but two) or even operating (as with BC hospitals using education funds to attract nurses from other countries and pay their wages while they study for the RN exam that over a third of them fail three times before they are let go).

As one of the Finnish managers in the story said "There are 36,000 students in my home town of 88,000. You heard me correctly."

Not only are we doing it wrong, we're allowing foreign companies to come in and loot our capital infrastructure while we're doing it, by saddling us with debt that they use to upgrade their own mills in their own countries (Weyerhauser, Cascade).

I wouldn't ordinarily know even this much about the forest industry, but I have a buddy who's been a raging failure in the biz for about a dozen years, until he got on with TietoEnator, which does a lot of forest industry cosulting in North America. Over three patient years, they've worked with him and turned him into a modest success. He's rewarded them with dogged persistence and a wealth of contacts in the forest industry (Jim is really only a good schmoozer because he's as thick as a plank), and they both appear to be making decent money now.

Consultants always will, as long as someone owns a watch they can't read. Like our forest industry.

Shareholder Schmareholder

I'd be more concerned about those oil cos.
donating large sums to Liberal coffers than I'd be that MLAs hold shares in them.

Anyway, large part of BC revenue comes from oil and gas revenues from many of those same O&G cos.

Every prov. public service any BCer uses is paid for partly by oil co. profits in the form of royalties cos. pay to the BC gov't , i.e. to taxpayers as a whole.

Your kids' public education is paid for partly by oil profits. The last visit you (or the writer of this article) made to the doctor was partly paid by oil co. money.
So, as BCers, we're ALL financially involved with oil cos. to a great degree.
It's not necessary to be a share holder to have your life partly tied to oil co. profits!

Simply being a shareholder isn't like being
an oil co. executive who has a serious, ingrained vested interest in co. fortunes.
A shareholder can easily be a "company owner" in the morning, and sell his stock and be a non-shareholder by afternoon.

I think an investor (including an MLA) can be very much FOR the promotion alternate energy sources, and still own shares in oil cos., because the stocks offer good returns for now. It doesn't mean the investor will therefore be dead set on maintaining oil co. profits forever, or even till next week. I don't see that it necessarily implies a conflict of interest.

Ordinary shareholders aren't tied to their stocks the way co. employees are tied to their cos. Stock ownership is as long term or as temporary as an investor chooses. As soon as some alternative energy stocks start to look promising, because some gov't has started taking steps to encourage the sector, someone (including an MLA)can easily exit their oil stocks and buy the new sector! Or if he/she thinks oil cos. are on the way out, as energy sources shift away from O&G, they can short sell them and make money from the demise of oil cos.!

Don't think so Bob many 9s

Last stats I saw (2 years ago) the indication was that only 11% of Canadians had any stock holdings which could be used to trade as active investors in the way you describe.

The average Canadian - and MLA sure aren't average - has no savings and no stocks. He or she may have a few bucks in an RRSP or a company pension plan but that's about it.

When balanced against their consumer debt and other liabilities the economic situation of the average canuck looks a lot worse than that of their elected representatives. That makes MLA investments more than just a possible conflict of interest – it puts them in a position where their decisions are suspect – they work for the citizen - not for corporate welfare.

I don't think MLA should be investing anything in stocks, bonds or other investment vehicles. PERIOD. They are more than generously remunerated as it is and if they have anything left over at the end of the year it ought to be taxed back....

another one

I had high hopes for BC when Mr. Penner was appointed Minister of the Environment.
The fact he invests in these traditional investments confirms our loss. And there must already be different investment choices that belong to tomorrow, such as Ballard?
While all elected representatives stand on new ground this millennium, no position is more obviously in need of independent thought and dropping status quo than his.
His qualifications are excellent; he is intelligent, compassionate and willing to get out there to get the job done. As a law student, passing new and badly needed legislation to protect BC’s environment should have been easy for him.
Yet…he remains rooted in the last millennium and serves his master well. Pity, Mr. Penner.