Thanks, Bill Tieleman, for such a comprehensive review

I've just finished writing a complaint to The Globe and Mail because of their lack of coverage of this trial ... not just a lack of coverage, but foolishly imo allowing Gary Mason to continue his "What's wrong with that?" shrug shrug apologies for whatever might be the facts of this case.

What a relief, Bill, to read your straight-arrow report!

Way to go Bill.

Excellent article. I will be interesting how this plays out.

Stonewally had a bit of

Stonewally had a bit of bother trying to tell everyone in the house that just about everything is in court. And of course those awful opposition guys who are or were lawyers should know better. When the name Collins came up, and it did quite a lot , folks mentioned he is not charged. They requested Wally state that dirty tricks are no longer going on. Since this has been asked a number of times, are they waiting for the government to claim there are no dirty tricks and then show there are such things going on. If that was the situation someone could get nailed for "Misleading" the house. Only in BC you say? "The best place on earth" and we need a big raise because the best people won't go into politics without a good chunk of cash. Well look what we are stuck with right now.

"dirty tricks" Campbell

The transcript tells volumes about the character or lack of it of Collins and Basi. All of course under the alleged {it has to be alleged} direction of Campbell.

There is a contest now for the worst Canadian ever! I'm going to nominate Campbell.

Great article! Thanks to the Tyee for keeping this story front and centre.

Gee Clark had a deck built and the police turned up at his front door. When oh when will the police be at Campbell's door?

nice summary

Thanks Bill; I tried to summarize the case in letters of complaint to CBC news shows about their lack of coverage but your link came along just in time to be added to them, and it's far more thorough than I managed to be; let's see if anyone "East of the Rockies" sits up and takes notice of all that you've laid out. In the meantime, they're talking about the Air India case and what-not.

Bill - what about RAV?

I wish Tielman and the rest work just as hard investigating the RAV f**** (deception). There were more dirty tricks with RAV, media manipulation, etc. to have another legal case.

What BC Rail has shown is that Campbell, his brother, Bill Boring, the Liberal party and the judicial system is all tied up in a major scandal.

I wish we could have a new government come in power and pass legislation that the Campbell era was illegal and all legislation ruled null & void!

Dear BC Liberal caucus

We all know that these articles/forums and the related blogs are being monitored by your offices, so this is addressed to those Liberal backbenchers and cabinet ministers who privately are dismayed by what's coming out.

You have only one chance to save your respective political necks - and that is a caucus revolt to remove the current leadership; either that or cross the floor and sit as independents or a new splinter party. The doo-doo is only going to get deeper as more and more evidence is disclosed. I strongly urge that those of you who have a shred of principle left give up on the facade of unity and consider bringing this government down in flames as it deserves to be. There's no need to endure the next two years of political hell that this case is going to cause for you with your constituents between now and the "fixed election date"; there can be an election before then if enough you have the balls (excuse me ladies, speaking only metaphorically...) to pull the plug on the rat's nest that's sinking your ship.....it's not too late to win back some honour by actually DISPLAYING SOME.

In the UK, if Blair had been connected with stuff like this, even remotely, his own caucus and most of his cabinet would have forced him to resign by now, if the Queen herself didn't. I suggest you give this some serious thought over dinner tonight. It's not going to go away, no matter how many more spin doctors/media monitors your bosses hire to try and douse the flames.

The House is On Fire, and there isn't a fireman capable of fighting it. It's only a matter of time. If you don't want to go the way of the Mulroney Tories, the Vander Zalm/Rita Johnston Socreds, the Clark-Dossanjh NDP, there's only one real course of action available to you: Bite the bullet and stand up for what's right.

This story has legs all right, big sturdy ones in ten-league boots that will walk all the way to the federal Supreme Court in the long run. And here's definition of organized crime to consider, from the Criminal Code of Canada:

Question about the BC rail sale

If it's proven beyond a shadow of doubt that the BC Rail sell-off process was tainted, can the deal itself be revoked?

Hmmmm....

Maybe they have been - we haven't seen all the evidence yet. They obviously didn't have TV cameras in tow when they did, though. On the other hand, they may have been at his door in a somewhat different capacity....

Grumpy

Hang in there my friend and keep your powder dry.

The judge could dismiss this whole case for one or more of several reasons. Whatever you've got on RAV may well be needed. Right now we have a wounded government in Victoria and it may take another couple of rounds before they cry uncle.

For the moment, I think you can expect they'll be throwing a lot of mud in the media tomorrow.

It's a long way from over - these things are still just 'allegations' but thank heaven they're getting out to the public. The whole disclosure debacle has been a disaster for the Crown so far and even more of a train wreck for the government. According to Vaughn Palmer, the next gambit is to make the opposition look like hypocrites over the salary increase report.

And don’t forget how inept the press have been. You won’t be seeing Bill’s long an thorough analysis in the Vancouver Sun tomorrow, sadly.

Not everyone reads Tyee.

Grumpy, every thing this

Grumpy, every thing this traitor has done to the great people of BC should as you say be stricken null and void! As far as I'm concerned everyone who is involved with the dirty tricks should have all Privileges, pensions, every share they own to do with the dirty tricks criminal scandal taken, stripped away from them.
Damn I'm steamed!
What about this evil TILMA done by a couple of criminals in secret that whole thing should be "NUL AND VOID"?
The loophole that G Campbell used to push this draconian TILMA through OUR Legislature should be closed and an amendment added to safeguard the people against tyrants like this who sneak through with the dastardly media!
This is what happens to people who sleep with GREEDY Corporations!
Next go after CanWest Global Media with complacency with and to commit a conspiracy against the People of British Columbia!

Not everyone reads the Tyee...

GW, you're right but alot of folks read Jimmy P's little freebie rag 24hrs which publishes Bill T.'s column. So some folks are getting this info even if MSM is giving up the sales to protect this group. Some of you say that CANWEST's subscribership is dropping some how I think this is because they are no longer the bloodhound on the gov't/politicians asses as they were for years.

Grumpy

It's not only the RAV and BC rail. It's negotiated contract cancellations, hospital cuts, emergency services cutbacks, school closures, education and medical privatization, gutting the WCB, removing farmworker legislation, privatizihg BC ferries,HYDRO and the list goes on and on. These people (if you can call them that)have just about finished their gutting of the province.
This case is just the beginning and it will most likely be the end of the Liberal party in BC as it was for the Socreds, (who are now the Liberals). When a new government is formed I'll bet that most of our tax dollars will go to INQUIRIES. My only hope is (if it doesn't happen sooner) that those responsible will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law under a new government. That includes any former justices, special prosecutors, former and sitting MLA's and this premier if they are found to be involved in this massive coverup. So far all things have not been proven in court. But personally, just the fact that the defence is not gwtting their info leads me to beleive that the prosecution doesn't have a case.
As this thing drags on there is the matter of our water that is being negotiated secretly with the USA right now. Our wheat board (the best in the world) is on the table. So it's not just provincial it's federal as well.

There has to be a way to hold all sitting MLA's and MP's accountable to their constituants and not hand over our votes to those who have the money. Somebody asked on another thread when someone was finally going to ask: "I'm as mad as hell and i'm not going to take this anymore."

I just did.
Gary Edwards
Deka Lake B.C.

Telephone call says it all

The tone and words, the 'plan' speaks volumes.

And while I'm here.....

I would like to take the time to thank BC MARY, Bill Tielman, Robin Mathews, and all the citizen reporters that have helped to keep this thing alive. Without them I'm sure it would have been buried much deeper than it is.

Well Done Mr. Tieleman

Gary wrote:

My only hope is (if it doesn't happen sooner) that those responsible will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law under a new government. That includes any former justices, special prosecutors, former and sitting MLA's and this premier if they are found to be involved in this massive coverup.

Well said.

The reach of the corruption so wide, the speed of it all so fast, (the word "thorough" comes to mind) that one can only surmise that it had all been carefully planned in advance. How many years does one get for the "premeditated" gutting of both our province and the legitimate rights of the people who live here?

And I agree, Murdoch, the tone of those comments says it all.

tonight's newscasts....

....made no mention at all of the fracas in the Legislature concerning this today. Although they did have a lengthy puffpiece on Harper's chopper tour of the Fraser Valley dykes (despite any lack of real action on his part....)

Nothing About this

This is such chickenfeed stuff.

I've carefully read each word of the taped "explosive" conversation between Basi and Collins. All it represents is one side of a debate trying to muster supporters to publicize their point of view. As if the BC Rail union and the NDP wasn't doing the same, Bill!

Maybe one day this case will start and we'll start to hear actual evidence against the accused. In the meantime, the defence seems determined to spout hot air till their retainer runs out.

Martin = Liberal spin doctor

'Nuff said.

Way to go Tyee & Bill

THIS is why we have the Fourth Estate. Thank you SO MUCH for being one of the few real news organizations in British Columbia. This should be front page news on the Vancouver Sun and Victoria Times Colonist. What a complete and total travesty our democracy has become. I hope to see the NDP wade in on this as it clearly demands a public discussion. Can you imagine the response from CanWest and the Liberals if this trial involved Glen Clark's aides!!!!!! It would non-stop, 24 hour coverage on Global TV, Sun, Province and so on.

Keep the the very good work.

Skookum, a contract..............

Skookum, my business law is very rusty but it is my belief that a contract that is fraudulent, is no contract at all. Thus if it can be proven that the BC Rail contract (sale) was fraudulent then there is no sale.

NDP Sure Looking Bad

Poor NDP, if this is all they are worried about, then no wonder Carole James and her poodle dog Tielman and the rest of worry warts are in the dumps.

So far all I see is political strategy unfolding. The same sort of stuff that is practised by every political party on the planet.

sdgreen......

I'll tell you what I see unfolding here. I see three men who were hung out to dry by their so-called friends (Bornmann) and bosses (Collins, Clark and Coleman.)
I see a huge cover-up orchestrated by the Majority government in Victoria, the Prosecution, The RCMP. A senior justice in the supreme court putting gag orders on court proceedings. A failure of the Supreme Court of British Columbia to allow public access to documents when asked. (which is our Constitutional Right). I see the NDP opposition asking questions of the Premier and the Attorney General every day now. Asking questions in Question Period and getting Non-Denials and denials and stonewalling and "we DON'T comment on cases before the court". (not we CAN'T comment)In short I see a huge cover-up. If there is nothing to worry about, why the cover-up?

Please explain that to me, could you?

sdgreen 38 minutes ago. I

sdgreen 38 minutes ago.
I find it fasinating that as the pretrial dislosures have started and names of cabinet ministers ae being linked to some strange goings on , that you would think this is all political strategy unflolding. I don't think you can consider the opposition as Poor if this is all they are worried about. Our assests are being sold at bargain basement prices,and you figure thats quite alriight. BC RAil made profits and it went back into BC. Now the profits go to some shareholders instead of the citizens of this province. Methinks some of the dirty tricks boys are reading The Tyee.And of course we are paying their wages

Gary, thank you.

Very much appreciate your encouragement.

Do you remember back to one year ago, during a discussion on this very site, when we thought the Basi-Virk-Basi trial would begin on 6 June 2006. That was 06/06/06 so maybe we shoulda known better.

We talked right here about the lack of news coverage and wondered what the heck we could do. And yes, we were "mad as hell and weren't going to take" the media silence any longer. We decided to set up a web-site.

The first was House of Infamy but I felt uncomfortable with the name so set up my own site, The Legislature Raids. The two web-sites concentrating on the same B.C. Rail, Basi-Virk-Basi topic, turned out well, as Koot has a very different voice and PoV from mine, and so we provide two different kinds of information.

My blogsite was 2nd, and I called it The Legislature Raids. There are almost 300 news items and essays on it. And most days, it requires 12 or more hours on this computer, to cope with the behind the scenes information.

But the past few days, with new evidence beginning to come out in court, with the news media starting to come around, with the Opposition on its hind legs asking questions in the B.C. Legislature, and with the altogether new spirit of confidence I see on this thread today ... man, I'd say that all our efforts have been well worth it.

What we need most, right now, is for people to attend Vancouver Supreme Courtroom 54 during any of the Basi, Virk, Basi hearings. Sometimes there are 6 people in attendance, sometimes 11, just barely enough to remind the judge and legal teams that there is a public interest to be served. It would be good to have more, especially if they sent in their notes to the two Citizen Journalist blogs to share around.

And who knows, maybe we can get BC Rail back! Once we've done that, maybe BC ferries, then BC Hydro, then BC Medical ... <>

Now, back to work. See ya in court?

much ado about nothing kids.

much ado about nothing kids. but at least it gives the ndp'ers something to be hopeful about.

globe and mail

as a british columbia sadly located in southern ontario, its worth noting here that unless i were a regular tyee reader, i would have no clue whatsoever about these allegations. nothing on the cbc, in the globe, on the tv news... nothing whatsoever.

Much ado about business as usual

Nothing, Elliot? This makes us look like complete hypocrites when taking a holier-than-though attitude towards practices in countries like China, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Russia. But, of course, this is just the "free" market at work: take a number to bugger the public.

I'm hopeful

I'm hopeful that the judge just doesn't throw the case out of court. It looks like the prosecuter has screwed this thing up so badly that it remains a very real possibility.

I'm holding my breath waiting for Basi and Virk to take the stand. DELETED, AS A COURT CASE IS IN PROGRESS.

If they make allegations against their former bosses on the stand, it will be splashed all over the front page of the Province and Sun no matter how friendly they have been in the past.

My prediction is for a very uncomfortable judicial inquiry after this is all said and done. Who knows after that.

Gary Mason

What a smell the Gary Mason column in the Globe gave off today. He actually thinks its alright for a gov't to play nudge-nudge wink-wink behind the scenes with a bidder just to make the process LOOK competitive. He says that its just the gov't getting a better deal. How? How does the gov't get a better deal when everyone involved is corrupt and knows everyone else is?

Quote:Skookum, my business

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......izzat so? How very interesting........and if the sale upon examination of the full roster of evidence concerning it is fraudulent, how many parties are implicated in this fraud? Surely more than Basi and Virk.....

My immediate response to that comment when I read it was "A better deal for which taxpayers??" But yeah, the rationalization that this is politics/business is usual is what gets my goat the most - the equivocation and apologisms from the Big Media that such behaviour is the normal way of doing things in this country. If it is, this is the time and place to call it to a halt once and for all. "Normal behaviour" is not equivalent to acceptable behaviour, whether it's business or politics that's being talked about.

I submit this is what voters get for:
(a) buying into the myth that government should be run like a business
(b) the bulltwaddle that only people with business experience should be in government.

The Indemnification Plan.....

If there, is indeed, such a thing (ie. to pay for Mr. Roberts compensation to represent the former Minister) would it not be a matter of public record and/or be a worthy subject of a FOI request?

Further, would it not be interesting to know who signed off on the thing if it truly exists?

______
And I agree with BP above....

The shortform/longform pieces by Mr. T.'s in the SunCorp/Pattison-owned 24Hrs and The Tyee is an excellent one/two combination......

.

The bright side

On the bright side, with the Canucks eliminated tonight a few more people's attention might switch to this Basi-Virk thing.

Not that I think the average guy worries too much about the shady selling of a railroad and using taxpayer money and gov't offices to fund and run Liberal party activities. Geez, its not anything as serious as if Campbell got some unpaid labour help on a deck.

High five, 'Mr. T'

Bill, you have never disappointed with your superb writing skills, right back to the Ubyssey good old days . . . well, done - such a pleasure to see a politically astute journalist say it like it IS not as it is through tailored screen for public consumption.

BC Mary - your site is a daily must see for me. Thanks for your 'measured' approach & hard work on behalf of 'justice' or the people. Your site holds a lot of power now. In fact, your site has great potential as a creative tool for justice in an expanded role: say . . . . like a petition to call for the removal of this circle from holding the reigns of government -I for one, do not need a ruling from the courts to know that this bunch are not fit; the factual disclosure to dat, says it all.

YES!!!! The question & answer must have put a huge smile on W.A.C. Bennett's face along with all British Columbians outside of this incestuous corrupt 'Circle' - a bunch who have banded together operating under a variety of political labels.

Sgt. Bud Bishop . . .

BTW: Maybe Sgt. Bud Bishop deserves a "high five", too. Something tells me that he is a straight arrow in the RCMP NOT calling the shots in these political games.

Mr.T's article noted Sgt. Bishop showed up in court at the same time his "treasure trove" of "comprehensive notes from the investigation surfaced. Who was responsible in the RCMP (hint: his superiors) for suppressing these notes until today? Having done all that good investigative work, I doubt Bishop would be pleased to see it hidden in a draw somewhere - as it appears it was.

Something else: Isn't it true that the Special Prosecutor can only base his investigation on what the police turn over to him? Is it possible that the block in the flow of evidence stopped at higher levels of the RCMP?

Thanks, Frank your post gave me a chuckle before 'beddy bye'. You echoed my feelings precisely.

Regretfully...

.....my contract law is at least as rusty as Grumpy's, but I recall the only time a contract is null and void is when any one of the terms it is founded on is not capable of being fulfilled.

For instance, your real-estate sale is null and void if you don't own it in the first place.

Anything else goes. There are no penalties for non-performance, or for truthiness in the advertising. It's why lawyers can get so rich representing clients who are willing to pay to get the justice they seek. Who's going to pay here? Who's going to stand up and write a cheque for the people of BC to make sure Gordo and Gary and Colin and the others pay the piper?

Don't get too smug folks. This ain't over yet - hell, it ain't even started. The fat lady hasn't even woken from her pre-aria nap yet.

And great work, Bill.

true enough....

true enough; the orchestra's not even in the pit yet and the stagehands are on a smoke break in the wings before putting out the set. But the snippets of melody being heard from the wings are a pretty good indication of what's to come in the opera.

And I know, whatever the contract law is, CN now owns BC Rail and as an American company (ahem) it would cause an international incident if it were repo'd; posssession is 9/10 of the law, right? But like I said earlier in another forum, we haven't seen the CN files yet, and who knows what's in them. I suspect CN's BoD is following this case with close interest.......

BC Rail - Canuck's court case, is it f****?

Rusty business law, etc., but is not this what the Canuck ownership court case is all about? They're are some similarities.

And to all those supporting the Libs on this one; when one perverts the law for their own ends, ensures that others can pervert the laws too.

"What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander."

So the Liberal party can fudge the law or down right break it and it's OK, fine then, but never, never again berate the anti-poverty anarchists again for breaking the law. Either we abide by the law or break it; our we civilized or are we living in chaos, where the wealthy and powerful rule?

If the latter, then watch out boys, the revolution will come and sooner than you think!

BC Mary

You are most welcome. I do really appreciate the work. And Bill, sorry I missed the extra e in your name

Mary, at the end of March I had advised you that I would be in Van from about april 11th to 17th and would try to make all court dates that I could. As it turned out I could only make one. That I beleive was on the twelfth. Not being familiar with internet cafe's I was pressed to find other places to get at a computer. I finally used a community internet place but it wouldn't let me into your blog. Security they said. Anyway it was I who talked to Meghan outside the court. She had done a good job of communicating things to you from memory.

I had tried to post the following on your blog several times but for some reason it wasn't getting through. I have since discovered that sometimes you have to use those letters twice to get through.

A couple of things missed by everyone reporting that day were:

A charter application was due to be heard by May 7th if possible. (that's this monday)Bennett asked if it could be concluded in May.
Clients are not required to attend Disclosure.
The week of June 25th Justice Bennett has a matter she will deal with at that time.
As to a TRIAL DATE Justice Bennett asked, "Is there any thought to JULY 9TH?"
Defence council is not available May 17th and 18th.
Then Justice Bennett asked if there was any discussion on summer break. It was apparently agreed tha the month of August was good. So she set August 3rd to adjourn for the summer.
And there was a discussion of an October 9th voir dire in camera. Or a voir dire about "in Camera" It was very hard to hear.

Grumpy

well said. Right On.

still not getting it

I am still struggling with the vagaries of human nature here. I realize that not everyone has had the privilege of seeing these denizens of greedyism prowl the halls of some liberal meeting, barely out of their teens, not quite filling out their three-piece suit, but already with that beady-eyed look, and that particular kind of shine on their faces...'the world is my oyster'...So I knew better than many, what they were made of, but still - after the 'now it's our turn', and the drunk driving and smug remarks on people sinking and dying because of their politics - what was in the heads of those who voted once more for this bunch? Please, someone who did, tell me, just exactly what did you expect to get out of putting your 'X' there? And did you get it? I am seeing glimpses of a parallel universe here, and eager to get a grip on it...one can never get too wise...

Prison awaits...

...Mr. Campbell et al. We're seeing the beginning of the end of the Campbell/Liberal crime family, and I look forward to seeing a different mugshot of Gordon Campbell. I wonder if he'll be grinning like an idiot this time?

Yet another biased article

DELETED. PERSONAL INSULTS OF TYEE WRITERS ARE NOT TOLERATED IN THESE FORUMS. - TYEE EDITOR

WM

Bingo-gate and Nanaimo were the same thing. And it wasn't the NDP government that was involved.

Glen Clark was found not guilty.

And cost overruns on the the Fast Ferries were not illegal. If that was the case Campbell would be in jail for the Convention Centre and the Olympics and RAV and the Sea to Sky ... Bennett would be in jail not just for insider trading but for cost overruns on the Coq etc.

But then there's lots of other people that don't care about corruption either, as long as their train runs on time.

Can you imagine!

"Bill, but I can get you a job tomorrow that pays $20 an hour. Just buy yourself some work boots and call me."

Can you imagine working for or with the likes of Working Man. Nothing to say that is on topic just ad hominum attacks.

I would guess that Bill, even if his income is a pittance, which I really doubt, does more for society than another perons like Working Man in his work boots making $20 an hour. It would be more intellectualy stimulating to work in a zoo.

Censorship

Perhaps you are splitting hairs but Stupich and Gableman were the bag men and were both cabinet ministers during the whole thing and in fact were convicted for their roles in the scandals.

Interesting how the Tyee resorts to censorship when a piece against their views is posted. Teleman is hardly and unbiased writer. Perhaps it would be of a higher jornalistic ethic to have Mr Teleman post his past and present politcal affiliations at the beginning of each article he writes critical of the present government.

secondlook, thanks too!

How did I miss your very encouraging comments? How indeed ... yesterday seemed to be extra busy with news stories flying, protests rising, comments sounding more like news than the news itself ...

So big thanks for your remarks about The Legislature Blog. Amazing to think that it all started here, on The Tyee, one year ago, with a few of us discussing this very same topic.

What a relief to finally begin to hear the legal arguments in court ... it's as if Somebody is paying attention, at long last!

31%

Well said. At 31%, they need something to be hopeful about and they Green Party is gaining fast on them. Same thing happened to the dinosaurs, I guess.

...

"Interesting how the Tyee resorts to censorship when a piece against their views is posted. Teleman is hardly and unbiased writer."

Typical, attack the messenger instead of the message. Bill has been top-notch on this and more than fair... that's why journalists like Palmer have directed people to his website to get more info on the case.

Bill's reputation as a columnist is in good standing, which is more than I can say for your reputation as a poster here.

P.S. Gary

Gary:

if you're at home now and able to use your own computer comfortably, The Legislature Raids would much appreciate it if you filled out these details as much as possible. I'd like to post it on the main space. OK?

And thanks again for your kind words posted above on The Tyee ... for your patience (I don't understand the problems you had with commenting on TLR blog) ... and for keeping these very important trial date notes for us.

- BC Mary.

BC Liberals love Working Man

Sure they do.

And Working Man loves British Columbia's Socred/Reform/CCRAP/Alliance/Conservative/LINO Party too.

Q. Has anyone seen a copy of a Media Monitoring contract?

Media

Are you sure we've got a trial going on. Bill Boring with Palmer and Baldry in the time I listened all they did was defend the pay raise. Does this mean that te trial is our imagination. It must be getting harder to ignore but they are succeeding. Oh well time to turn him off before he puts me to sleep.

Thanks, Tyee Editor.

Thanks for removing that comment.

I thought it was pretty bad too ... and that if Working Man had something he needed to say, it could (with a little humanity) be said with civility.

Thanks again.

WM

Splitting hairs? Not at all. The Stupich affair was an NDP party problem, nothing to do with government itself. BC Rail is a totally different kettle of fish.

What the NDP did in Nanaimo is more akin to various shakedowns for cash the Libs and Socreds have been involved in over the years. Some of which caused minor furors at the time but people in BC generally don't really care what goes on within a party if it doesn't affect government, unless that party is the NDP apparently.

The BC Rail, Basi-Virk thing is again, totally different. You need to wrap your head around the fact that this is government corruption, not political party fund-raising shenanigans.

On Journalism......

its funny how some people forget that the mainstream media was waiting for Glen Clark to get home. They were in on his problem from the get-go. In fact the whole thing originated from Campbells' office.
This scanadal is far far greater than a sundeck. Where is the media now?

There was nothing in the main3 media of BC until some of us decided to write them about stories we would like to see in their papers. Four days after I wrote an article appeared by Vaughn Palmer. Full of grudging acknowledgements and excuses for those involved.

In comparison, the main Media here is non- existant in this case.

And if you want to gripe here about being censored then I suggest you read WHY you were censored. Try re-writing your piece to get your view across without being censored. Don't just blame it on the Tyee being left wing. At least here you get published which is more than I can say for the Sun,Province and Times Colonist.

Bill is still Glen Clark's spin doctor

There is likely no coincidence that the boss of Mr. Bill's newspaper outfit is Glen Clark.

I bit Glen is tickled pink by Bill's columns lately. I bet Bill still gets a Christmas card and bonus, too. Just like Rupert Murdock, who I'm sure NEVER directs the coverage of Fox News.

...

"There is likely no coincidence that the boss of Mr. Bill's newspaper outfit is Glen Clark."

Please, he his own blog, is published at the The Tyee, and was doing radio on CKNW before he started working for 24Hours... I suppose Clark masterminds those appearances too.

Jesus, it's not enough that right controls 99% of the MSM in this Province some of you can't stand it when a columnist, who leans left, actually gets some air time.

Cry me a river.

You are welcome, BC Mary.

You are welcome, BC Mary. Just goes to show:

.

Isn't anybody else curious about Sgt. Bud Bishop & his "treasure trove" of notes? To me, this is a key fact that perhaps signals the key problem operating in a bigger fashion.

mcdull: You stole my comment-"

How foolish do I feel? I went against my better judgment, made a cup of coffee & did something foreign to me: actually listened to the trio thinking that they would speak about the 'elephant in the room': the Leg Raid trial. T

Pathetic pablum about everything else BUT the Raid was spooned out, ad nauseum. Give me a break. This bunch reached a new low.

I expect it from Goode - I am really sad to see Palmer selling out like this - he knows better than to ignore the obvious - even if the others don't. What so many people have been saying about the creeping political control of the MSM is now blatant truth.

I can well imagine the screening going on by Goode's producer - been there, done that - FORGET ABOUT IT!

The Libs have some aces up

The Libs have some aces up their sleeves.

Libs are fortunate that the B.C. news media is dominated by a corporation (Canwest) demonstrably favourable toward the BC Libs.
Libs knew that the popular CKNW was more of a wild card, and could be a forum for embarrassing revelations and condemnation of Libs. They knew they had Canwest pretty much in their pockets (aside from a few columnists), but CKNW could still be pesky!
Hence the stacked call in shows, and taxpayer funded dirty tricks.

Canwest has underplayed this story from day one, and instead of doing investigative journalism to uncover the facts, they've ignored it as much as possible.
And as BC Mary says, even the Globe appears to be giving short shrift to this story, which is puzzling.

Imagine if instead some serious investigative reporting had occurred prior to the last election. We might have seen quite different pre-election headlines and stories - ones less Lib friendly, and we might have gotten a different election outcome.

The argument that the RCMP reined in their investigation as far as elected Libs were concerned, may have merit, but why would they go forward with the Virk - Basi investigation, then?

If the RCMP had really wanted to avoid embarrassing or implicating elected Lib MLAs, why wouldn't they have foreseen what's coming to light now in the trial, and realized a Virk - Basi case would
bring all the sh*t to light anyway?
That part doesn't seem to make sense.

Surprises galore

I think the operating words to note here are "was followed"... "the next day".

Just an interesting coincidence to note but the RCMP search of Glen Clark's home on March 2, 1999 (issued in a sealed to the public warrant from Supreme Court Justice Patrick Dohm) was led by then Officer Bud Bishop.

Jeffery 18 hrs ago IT Was

Jeffery 18 hrs ago IT Was 24/7 cops, Fascist media, through windows "oh" and at night Fascism never sleeps but Fascists are cowards as every thing is done in secret? THEY WORK AND ARE HIRED BY US THE 2 JOBS TAXPAYER Do I hear sucker?
Rich Coleman on VOBC V Palmer last night swore up and down that he had no knowledge of any cover-up, I'd call that "Bearing False Witness"
Where is CanWest, you can come down hard with the full tenacity and power of the MEDIA on a $14,000. porch?

You are/have become a

You are/have become a useless Corporation because you've forgotten your HUMANITY(The old days 10yrs ago when you had a few real investigative reporters) but now with these vermin who are money mongers, war mongers whose "god" is yellow gold, black gold or $$$$ etal.
Conrad Black, now there is the real face of Greed he's just a pathetic little man.
If he's a Lord, then that says a lot about these titles as now they have dirt on them, just the idea of graft?
All those monster houses, but are not homes, big autos Hummmmvees hum great for your kids (air) future, holidays humm you've been everywhere, boring no dreams left, and your friends can you really trust them?
Do you know who your neighbor is, and if you could help that neighbor would you?
I damn well know I would.
Give me my real friends who would help in a flash and my Peace of mind!
Have a great day including gordo's shills here.

www.bcfiberals.com/

http://www.bcfiberals.com/

Veteran RCMP Sergeant Bud Bishop

Lynn:

Thanks for that missing piece of the puzzle. But now I'm really puzzled, if you'll pardon the pun.

This is the RCMP Officer Bud Bishop who led the raid into Premier Glen Clark's home? And this is the police officer who didn't seem interested to hear about a threat allegedly involving ICBC and the Ministry of Finance?

But then this veteran RCMP Sergeant Bud Bishop made extensive notes of the tip?? Notes which now show up in Supreme Court?

He wasn't interested ... he makes extensive notes ... he shows up in court ... suggesting that now he is interested ...

Nope, I still don't get it.

RCMP & Sgt. Biship's role . . .

BC Mary, you have good reason to be puzzled over Sgt. Bud Bishop, as I am . . . any officer that keeps "a treasure trove" of detail in his notes is doing his job - right? Bishop is a Sgt. who works under other senior officers involved in this file. Bishop's notes would be given to other members of the 'team'.

Was Sgt. Bishop under pressure/specific orders re: high profile elected members attached to the work he was compiling on the file given the information we now know about Project Everywhichway?

Apparently, according to Mr. T, Bishop's notes were revealing - that tells me that Bishop is not the problem. High profile Ministers definitely were handing orders to their minions/fixers - Did Sol. Gen. Rich Coleman give any orders to certain people in Commercial Crime beyond & above Sgt. Bishop, based on that evidence? It looks to me that Sgt. Bishop was not afraid to show his face.

Lynn, wasn't it Sgt. Montigue that was going to run for the Liberals that was connected to the Raid? Are you sure it was Sgt. Bishop that "lead the raid into Clark's home" re: the silly deck fiasco by the RCMP?

A Puzzlement

secondlook, a good point about the revealing nature of Bishop's notes.

To be clear I am not saying that there is not a pecking order here or a higher chain of command or influence I am only stating that everything I have read has said that the "RCMP led by Officer Bud Bishop arrived at Clark's doorstep and began a search of his house." I am just noting the coincidence. That is all. And as BC Mary's comment above makes clear it definitely opens the door to more puzzling questions.

What is stunning about this case (and often remarked upon at BC Mary's blog) is that certain names keep appearing and re-appearing over time.

And yes, Sgt. Peter Montague apparently was asked by Gordon Campbell to run for the Liberals. I have read that he was a senior investigator on the case but Clark's trial never made clear how deep was his involvement because the defence decided not to cross-examine him.

The question I was trying to ask above was:

If surprise #1 ( the surprise appearance of Preissell) hadn't happened do you think surprise #2 would still have occurred the next day?

Was surprise #2 contingent on the occurrence of surprise #1?

Good questions, Lynn . . .

Hi Lynn: Very likely NOT LOL!!

My radar tells me that I would like to have been a fly on the wall in the Commercial Crime Division when the truth surrounding Preissell's phone call was uncovered. Do you think that maybe within this Division there are ethical divisions between members?

Since Bishop had made good notes it would be interesting to know if he decided he was not going to take the heat for good work he'd done & someone else had blocked it. His appearance looked to me as though he was making a statement. What do you think?

RE: reappearance of certain names

P.S. Yes, Lynn - you are correct - there are common links on political files related to the RCMP

Coleman's Bio.

Coleman's bio. list that he was a former RCMP and specialized in security. I am told that the RCMP really stick together. Would a former RCMP phone someone in the department? Makes you wonder.

Vertigo

secondlook wrote:

Well, I'm not sure.

The dance steps are sure confusing.

As BC Mary writes:

It almost makes you dizzy....

Tieleman responds

First, many thanks for the kind comments on my coverage of the Basi-Virk case - I uch appreciate it, particularly after cranking out 2800 words till the wee hours!

Second, as I've said before, I suggest to my critics that they point out the inaccuracies, faults or real or perceived bias in my reporting rather than attack the messenger.

I've never hid nor been embarrassed by my political past or perspective. I am a left of centre journalist and communications consultant who has never been afraid to criticize the NDP when warranted.

I strive to be fair at all time to anyone I am covering, from Stephane Dion to Gordon Campbell to Elizabeth May to Carole James.

But that does not mean giving up my own perspective or stating my opinions clearly and strongly.

On to some specific points. Sgt Bud Bishop kept two sets of notes, one in a "BC Rail" book and one in a "Desk" book.

He appeared in court no doubt at the insistence of the Special Prosecutor, who said Bishop was prepared to testify about his knowledge of the John Preissel tip. Justice Elizabeth Bennett decided that was not required.

But at another point later in the proceedings the defence did ask how many notebooks the RCMP had kept in this case.

I did not see the "Working Man" attack on me before it was removed by The Tyee but I suggest as previously that my critics will be more successful if they contradict my reporting and find fault with my conclusions than to attempt to belittle me personally.

A brief word in defence of CanWest Global, surprising as that may be. Neal Hall of the Vancouver Sun has consistently been in court and reporting not only in the next day's paper but also online the same day with a briefer version of the proceedings.

This is admirable coverage, in my view.

John Daly of Global, also owned by CanWest, has been in court many times.

Rob Brown of BC CTV has been very much a regular and reporting most days.

Mark Hume of the Globe and Mail is there religiously each day - more than I can do, unfortunately, with other obligations - as I am not a full-time paid journalist.

Mark's reporting is exemplary also.

And Canadian Press has been extremely diligent, sending a reporter each day who files for all the media outlets around the province and country.

I am saddened that CBC is mostly absent from covering this important case. CBC TV, to the best of my knowledge, has not yet reported from the court. CBC Radio has only sent a reporter on a few occasions - and I do not in any way fault their reporters, who do not have the choice of what they cover.

I encourage Tyee readers to ask CBC to do a much better job on this case.

Lastly, thanks to both 24 hours and The Tyee for supporting ng my own reporting on Basi-Virk - it is most appreciated.

And again, so are the many flattering comments posted here.

Regards - Bill Tieleman

PS I welcome your comments here but also at my blog - http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/

Thank you, Bill Tieleman

I appreciate your respectful/dialogical way of responding. I have read as much as I can find anywhere and have written a bit at the Tyee concerning this case - but nothing attached to your article. Many others seem to be doing fine without me.

I can't say that I have enjoyed a better/clearer read regarding this most convoluted of cases. I really like your ability to sort the worms from the big can into the five key areas.

Thank you for helping us see that other reporters are in the midst, doing the work that must be done. However, I often don't find the bias brushed into the fibre and placement of the articles to be what I would call as fair as you have been. I can't help but wonder where the coverage of the trial would have been placed if this were not a right-wing government. I can't help but wonder if the commercial papers would be using the name of the party (Liberals) in the headlines and/or more often throughout the articles. That said, I understand that what gets printed in papers is often not what was written (or would like to have been written) by a reporter trying to pay the bills and keep a decent job.

I have also watched the news on TV with an eye and ear tuned to hear about this trial. It is not being reported in a way that the average person knows much about what is happening. Many people I speak with ask, "What?" and "Really" when I bring up the trial. Keep up your hard work, please. Little by little by little, the public is gaining awareness of the issues being brought forth. The public is often slow to anger, but the anger and disgust is mounting - the Liberal ship is coming to a stop. It's one thing to try to fool the public, it's entirely a different thing to use their own money to do it.

Major media reporters who knowingly slant the news must look at themselves in the mirror sometime. I wonder if they ken they be spinning yarns of rosebuds for Grand-Daddy Hearst? I wonder if they feel ill when they look at what they do?

$1000 bribes and the Solister General?

It now seems that there is now allegations of $1000 bribes to interior mayors to support the BC Rail deal. Now is not giving a bribe illegal? Should not those receiving a bribe be charged?

As well the Solicitor General has interfered with the case; according to parliamentary practice, should he not be forced to step down?

Every day this BC Rail fiasco shows how utterly corrupt Campbell & Co. are, a complete disgrace to all. Never again you Libs. out there mention how bad the NDP were.

Our so called economic boom is on paper as Campbell has diverted provincial money from hospitals and schools to fund his politically prestigious mega projects. The whole house of cards will soon tumble and I hope this malignant lot in Victoria end up in gaol where they belong with other felons!

reporters?

"and I do not in any way fault their reporters, who do not have the choice of what they cover."

I guess being a reporter isn't really a profession anymore. They are really nothing more than assembly-line spokesmen for their individual employers. Investigative journalism has long been a counter-balance to the massive power politicians and corporations have. Too bad that "journalists" can't see their own fault in letting true journalism disappear. They need to fight to bring important stories to the public. Prospective reporters need to look at people like Sean Holman. Palmer and Smith, well established and safe in their jobs, may throw lobs to their favourite politicians, but if you want to make a name for yourself start digging and report! Who knows what you might find? If it wasn't for Holman, I'm sure we'd still have Campbell's relatives in Prince George stealing money from us.

We blame journalists ... but it's not their fault.

Bill Tieleman's stand-up defence of Big Media's working journalists reflects Bill's own high standards.

And I know that Bill is correct in saying that some journalists such as Neal Hall and Mark Hume have written decent (if too short) reports from the courtroom. I've promoted their work in The Legislature Raids almost daily, without exception.

[Note that Bill says nada about that curiously biased Gary Mason.]

But I think this province of B.C. has a seriously major problem with its news services. A free press is an essential element in an informed, democratic society. It should be viewed as an arm of government -- not to trick or manipulate us -- but to connect us to government. And British Columbia simply doesn't have that kind of news media.

One example: for months, the Willy Pickton trial has had its own daily FEATURE listing in CanWest newspapers. Does the B.C. Rail (Basi, Virk, Basi) trial have this kind of media attention? No. Not ever.

Issues (possibly criminal) involving Canada's 3rd largest railway, issues (possibly criminal) involving federal and provincial governments and therefore touching every citizen of this country ... never has had its own easy-to-find front-page listing.

We blame the journalists for corporate bias but it's not their fault.

My first lesson in "lazy journalism" came from observing a keen young reporter on a then-Southam daily newspaper in B.C. On his own, he had undertaken an in-depth investigation of a trailer park. Knowing his finished story was a bombshell revelation "with real legs", he took it proudly to his News Editor ... who killed it.

That young guy was never the same again. On 2 Sept. 2006, he became one of the 185 new "spin doctors" hired by the Campbell regime under Order in Council #656. My heart aches for him ... and for British Columbia.

So thanks, courteous Bill, but we all know there's more to it than that. We know that B.C. desperately needs a fair, free press for a change.

Free Information

I often wonder in this age of advanced communications if we still need the press as much as we think we do (based on all the moaning, my own included, about the lack of adequate coverage). There isn't any technical reason I couldn't easily obtain the information I was looking for without having to rely on the press, provided that we had an information management system for government information. A transparent government wouldn't need a freedom of information office to beauracratize and bottleneck information, it could simply make all information available to whoever in the public had the skills to write a database query to pull it up. Let anybody and everybody in the public be able to audit at will, and not have our government get involved in any P3s that would provide a legal objection to this. If we are going to deregulise let's start with control over the public information, let's reverse the direction on the panopticon.

Fraudulent Giveaways Deceitfu

Fraudulent
Giveaways
Deceitful

Thank you Bill Tieleman! From the vast majority of the people of BC for your great investigative journalism into this “EVERY WHICH WAY” scandal!
I guess my blogs are a bit critical of CanWest but the reason still is, where were they during the last four years?
All the deceitful, criminal giveaway of OUR Publicly owned Corporations to foreign Corporations of very questionable reputations.
(con't)
Remember Betty Krawczyk 10 months in jail?
http://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2007/02/bettys-final-submissions-to-madam.html
RIP
http://sisis.nativeweb.org/sov/allnahan.html
http://harrietspirit.blogspot.com/

The Gateway Project (is it

The Gateway Project (is it an extension for the new Super Hyw for the NAU)?
The Trade and Convention Center $300,000,000+. over budget?
Sea to Sky Highway “robbery” $1 billion+ over budget
2010 Winter Olympics way over budget, also cloaked in great secrecy by unscrupulous “blood suckers”!
This G Campbell (MADD's poster mugshot) and all his little band of criminals who are being dug out or crawling out of their grimy holes.
Now maybe WE will also find out if BC Justice is For the People?

No Free Pass For Reporters

No doubt there are some fine reporters out there frustrated and maddened by the tethers put on their work but individuals courageously protest and go up against management and management policies everyday, I don't think reporters should be exempt in any regard.

What would we do if whistle-blowers were no longer willing to take the risk? If nurses didn't speak out against deteriorating and dangerous health conditions. If teachers didn't speak out? Or ferry workers, bus drivers, health workers, warning of unsafe practices and conditions? All risk losing their jobs for doing so. They have families to support, bills to pay just as much as reporters do.

So I will have to respectfully disagree with BC Mary on this one... anyway, wouldn't be much fun in life if we all agreed on everything. ;-)

It is very disheartening that the young reporter's investigative story was killed but that doesn't mean he has to end up becoming a spin doctor for the likes of the Campbell government. This is happening far too much in this province. There are many other choices he could have made.

Without an investigative free press everything we value is put at risk. We are where we are now because far too many of us.... yup, me, you, (reporters included) have been far too silent and far too compromised in our actions for far too long.

BC Mary is an excellent example herself of someone who courageously forged a way around the bias and the silence surrounding the reporting of a critical news story in this province. As have Kootcoot in House of Infamy, Pacific Gazetteer, Robin Mathews and a number of others who deserve our thanks as well.

So just like everyone else reporters will have to learn the art of protest and revolt against a news media that is increasingly becoming a mere corporate progaganda machine created to ensure a corporately-controlled world.

On the "Reported Elsewhere" sidebar of the Tyee, here are just a couple of headlines....what would we do without people like this who are clearly taking a personal risk to bring about crucially-needed changes for us all:

and....

For the spelling police....

oops....should be "conditions" and "management"...though I kinda like "mangement". ;-)

RCMP/Solicitor General's back field in motion

Lynn, BC Mary, & Skywalker: Perhaps these quotes from Mark Hume answer the puzzle over Sgt. Bud Bishop's behaviour as discussed above . . .

BC Mary

and how it makes one kind of dizzy, as suggested by Lynn.

". . . the solicitor-general and his officials repeatedly inserted themselves in the police investigation as early as October 2003, Doyle said, and requested that police hold off interviewing then-finance minister Gary Collins while he was vacationing in Hawaii after the raid on the legislature on Dec. 28, 2003."

and further:

"He said RCMP acting deputy commissioner Gary Bass got a call Dec. 29, 2003, from Kevin Begg of the Solicitor-General's Ministry. Begg was appointed assistant deputy minister on Feb. 1, 2004."

DELETED. STATEMENTS IN COURT ARE AS YET UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS. - TYEE EDITOR

Do you suppose it was Sgt. Bishop who turned over his notes to Crown knowing they had been suppressed by his superiors earlier? Just wondering . . . .

taking a secondlook

That's exactly what I wondered when I read the article, secondlook. I hope it comes out in the wash. I have to believe that most of the people in the RCMP are men and women of integrety. I believe that the bulk of them got into policing for all the right reasons: to protect the innocent and catch the bad guys. I hope Sgt. Bishop is one of those people.

Blame the workers if the company is badly run?

Lynn:

Wasn't suggesting a Free Pass for journalists. Just saying that blaming journalists for the lousy news media is like blaming the workers on the factory floor for a mismanaged corporation.

Another story: a friend of mine had spent her whole career as a journalist and sub-editor on a Southam daily. She was well known and well liked in her city. She had changed with the times. After first becoming Women's Editor when such things were popular, she moved into general investigative news stories. Then she quit, about 10 years before retirement age. Why?

When she told me why she had quit, I knew that journalism had changed more drastically than I had thought possible.

She told me that she'd turn in a story to the News Editor, but later when she saw it in print -- over her by-line -- it was changed. Editors were forbidden to do that, until recent times. "Sometimes," she said, "my story would be changed so much that it reversed my meaning," she said. "Sometimes I came across as a redneck or a bigot."

And yes, she hammered it out -- or tried to -- with the Newsroom. But it kept happening. She was losing credibility. The only way she could put a stop to it to quit. Journalism was her whole life and there was no other daily newspaper in her town.

Suppose she had tried to be a whistleblower and let her city know? I guarantee, if she had written such a story, it simply wouldn't have been published.

What else could this journalist have done?

Interesting points, Bobb999

The argument that the RCMP reined in their investigation as far as elected Libs were concerned, may have merit, but why would they go forward with the Virk - Basi investigation, then? - Bobb999

Because the arguement may not have merit. If the assistant to ministerial defences hold up in court with the argument that these assistants were illegally breaking the law, but under orders given by publicly elected officials (working man, are you reading this?) meaning they were required to do so due to their occupation, what the fall out will be is charges laid to the elected officials in question. As it is, the defendants might still be found guilty, but the sentencing could be lighter as a result of the defense arguements and once indited, further charges to publicly elected officials will predictably come and in such light, Bill Tielman's billing of this case becoming one of the largest political scandals in Canadian history would become quite prophetic.

If the RCMP had really wanted to avoid embarrassing or implicating elected Lib MLAs, why wouldn't they have foreseen what's coming to light now in the trial, and realized a Virk - Basi case would
bring all the sh*t to light anyway?
That part doesn't seem to make sense. - Bobb999

Certain issues will be settled in time. One of them will be the legal boundaries under which assistants to ministerial positions are under. At this time, the defence is arguing that these boundaries are quite unrestricted and that the ownus of legal responsibility is on the ministers moreso than the assistants as assistants are merely doing what they are being told to do. It will be interesting to see how the judge will rule, assuming the case is heard in its entirety.

DELETED AS A COURT CASE IS IN PROGRESS. - TYEE EDITOR

The big question I believe we both have is what Canwest's reaction will be as the court case reaches negative conclusions for the Liberal party of BC as a whole. My guess at this point, is as little as possible.

And so goes the world....

BC Mary,

Definitely shady, underhand tactics by that News Editor towards your friend's work. No wonder she was so discouraged.

And while I much agree that workers/reporters may be blameless for corporate mis-management I don't think they are entirely blameless if their continued participation only serves to empower "the mis-management" all the more, strengthening its hold on detrimental policies and in the end increasing rather than decreasing the damaging effects of those policies.

Then it becomes a question I think of participation or non-participation....the one that all of us face in life no matter what our jobs. From the soldier who refuses to serve in an unjust war to the ferry worker who realizes public safety is being marginalized by cutbacks.

At what point do we (by the actions we choose) become complicit in the crime?

The psychiatrist on the North Shore is certainly blameless in regard to the policies of the VCHA but he obviously feels if he continues working there his participation not only becomes an act of support for those policies but one of complicity as well.

The members of his department supporting him obviously came to the same conclusion:

And good on them for taking a stand....

Perhaps reporters should follow their lead.

As democracy is being pummelled by the bias of a corporate-controlled press, and almost down for the count, surely there is something reporters themselves can do other than concede and comply?

Mindset

Lets face it folks. These people are vetted out to be sympathetic with the policies and mindset of the government in power. They would be willing, nay, eager to follow orders given by their ministers or deputy ministers. Be the orders given directly or implied(wink wink, nudge nudge.) Who pays these shady people with taxpayer dollars and to what purpose. They are the real criminals.

Follow the money, folks,its yours.

No excuses for lack of individual ethics!

Bob999 maybe you are giving the senior levels of the RCMP in Commercial Crime, too much credit[/b] . . . Maybe they were forced to act on the weight of allegations but once into the investigations started the cover-up as damaging evidence surfaced not really thinking of the complications of cover-up ahead.

Just maybe, lead RCMP officers file are actions done by the seat of their pants - they, meaning the RCMP handing out the orders on any given 'file'.

Isn't it clear from the tarnished reputation of some senior RCMP officers'conduct across Canada, that they have become almost blind in their arrogance to pick & choose what evidence they will go after; particularly when they are getting instructions/sharing evidence from/with senior politicians controlling the investigation to protect their 'circle' like the Solicitor General & the Premier being briefed by Kelly Reichart?

When people get away with such behavior for years without check, even within their own organization, such as the RCMP - the cover-up mentality becomes automatic- part of the culture - the culture becomes sick & in need of a cleanse.

Lynn, I agree with you re: individual responsiblity & ethics. We ALL have a choice in life:

To turn our back on unethical conduct or find our voice & backbone - whether that be as a police officer, journalist/editor, Judge, politician, or simply a private citizen.

When too many people choose to stick their heads in the sand to further their own climb up the ladder, rather than act on what they KNOW is wrongful conduct - the whole community suffers.

There is NO excuse for ANY individual who has ethics in their soul to forget to speak up - period - IT IS THE ROOT OF ALL SCANDALS.

secondlook

I agree with most of that (I haven’t made my mind up on the role of the RCMP relative to what went on prior to the raid itself – the fact that the Solicitor General seems to have interfered does not, however, bode well) but I would add that the fact that this government behaved and is behaving as though it is a dictatorship also plays an important role. Combined with the irresponsibility of big media (which is clearly continuing) it has become a dictatorship of the ethically challenged.

Concerned citizens have to begin to use the tools left to us to challenge the institutions of power in meaningful and non-violent ways. Otherwise, the next wave of change (should the institutions that have hijacked democracy for their own selfish interests not prove adaptable) will not be pretty. Whether this comes about as a movement from the left or coalesces around a reactionary holding action to hang on to power from the right. At the moment I doubt that progressives have the unity required and fear the irrationality of the current power structure. An hour or two of BC Liberals answering questions in the Legislature is about all it takes for the observer to realize that we are not being governed by an enlightened elite. In fact, quite the contrary.

At the moment, we ride the knife edge and hope for the best. Unless more individuals actually, as you point out, speak up, we are in for a very patch. When someone like Bill Tieleman who tries to relate the facts from the courthouse in a public forum like this can attract comments that require editorial intervention we are very far along the road to hateful anarchy and the suppression of rational debate: Just as the defenders of this ‘government’ seem inclined to do in the house.

The people need this case to go ahead to an OPEN conclusion. And the press needs to report it all, openly and thoroughly.

Sgt Bud

Could be the difference in Sgt Bud's actions and his note taking are a result of following a direct order that he isn't comfortable with but at the same time making lots of cover your ass notes, or even future reference notes, because he wasn't given a direct order not to take those notes.

I have sympathy with people that wait for the most effective time before they make a career changing move; keeping the powder dry till you see the whites of their eyes sort of thing.

Time will tell.

I notice a lot more censures due to "DELETED AS A COURT CASE IS IN PROGRESS. - TYEE EDITOR". Does this mean it is illegal for me to reproduce on an internet chat site something that I heard in the public gallery of the court room? Or is there some media blackout that we don't know about? Does this little comment section count as "media." Looks like if we the public are to keep informed of this case it will have to be on some other site.

Hadn't noticed those

Until just now. I try to keep a record of anything that seems marginally risky but I missed both of the examples just above.

I'd actually be interested to see what secondlook and the brain wrote - maybe they'll be so kind as to let me know:

More thoughts about media's failure to serve the people.

Lynn:

If you can suggest an option for a career journalist with integrity who wants to keep his/her plum job with CanWest, I'd like to hear about it.

So far I've seen a News Editor quit a fair-sized daily newspaper and set up shop publishing an independent truth-telling newspaper (print). It took only 2 years for the big monopoly newspaper to easily crush him; he and his wife lost everything including their home. That's too much to ask, on our behalf.

I've seen ethical journalists stay home and write books and I bet maybe 1 person in a thousand could name those books without the exposure of the big dailies.

I've seen ethical journalists go out on strike for months and years to no avail.

And I've seen them take jobs (editor, sales manager, owner) on smaller newspapers without ever feeling fulfilled, the way they could have fulfilled their promise by using their skills in a big way.

Journalists have it tough enough, being expected to serve two masters even though we all know that's impossible. They owe a duty to the public; but they also owe a duty to the newspaper management (their employer).

Sometimes I feel as if the journalists are victims just as much as the ill-informed public. That's why -- if I see a good article -- I often write to the author. So he/she knows they aren't alone. So he/she knows that the public isn't really fooled. And maybe someday ... ? Who knows how much resistance they apply behind the scenes?

And I write to the rotters too. Politely, of course, but I try to tell them to stop being such damn fools.

I even write to a certain Editor-in-Chief who has, in fact, been helpful toward my blog. It's a good thing, I think, to at least remind news management that there is a public interest to be served. Maybe they really don't know.

I mean: imagine TC sending a reporter into court all day for a pre-trial Basi Virk hearing and then an editor deciding not to let him write up the story! Imagine how that journalist must've felt.

But the fact is that when big media is run like Wal-Mart and undergoes amalgamation (convergence), then it wants all levels of government on side serving their needs for profits, approvals and legislation. And so the "news" becomes a management tool; it isn't about the people's affairs.

So it's Big Ownership we should decry. Not the workers.

little ol' clamdigger me

Hi Mary, we are going to have to stop meeting like this. ;-).... and we are also just going to have to disagree on this because I just don't see it that way.

Journalists aren't the only ones who lose their homes, their livelihoods or their dreams when they decide to take a stand against the controlling forces of management. I just see no difference between them and anyone else when it comes to the difficulty of taking a stand....and having to face the reality of the losses that may be incurred.

If having a plum job in the news media requires that a journalist allow his/her training to be used to represent the interests of corporations at the expense of democracy, if it requires that their fine skills be used in the interests of distraction from and concealment of the public's right-to-know then in the end they are not reporters or journalists at all but mere functionaries of a corporate-controlled press intent on propping up corrupt governments doing the bidding of corrupt corporations.

That's just not the description of "a plum job" to me. I think I'd rather dig clams to survive.

I have dug clam to survive

I have dug clam to survive, and I felt very good about myself when I was doing shoulder to shoulder with a couple of people with advanced degrees. They had opted out of the corporate world to dig clams and write their novels between tides. They were quite happy. I was just a young man with the hungries, but I learned a good deal about character from these people.

For my next story assignment: I'll denounce my boss, OK?

Maybe I misunderstand your basic premise, Lynn.

Are you saying that journalists refuse their assignments and should be writing protests about the failure and betrayal of Big Media?

That's the point I don't get. How could they? Who holds the power in the Newsroom? Management does. Guaranteed, no journalist would ever be assigned to write such a story.

If a reporter decided to write up an exposee of his employers, he could scarcely expect them to publish it. And next day, that his desk would be in the corridor. Next?

Sure they could all quit and dig clams.

But that wouldn't correct the situation. Why? Because the responsibility for a corrupt media lies on Media Management's shoulders, not on the journalists' shoulders.

And maybe I haven't been clear enough in my own basic premise: I think the real responsibility lies with the public. We have the power to demand improvement. And we have every right to do so.

Plus Media Management can't fire us. But we can boycott their advertisers, cancel subscriptions, write paper letters mailed to their editors and publisher or telephone them or both, and exert quite a lot of pressure to remind them that they owe the public a duty of care.

They owe us an honest, free, fair media. Then we wouldn't be having unbelievable debates about how much corruption is tolerable in business and government ...

Lynn and Mary both right

If writers refuse to write and the public boycots then the system will have to change. The onus is on everyone to stop corruption in a free and democratic society.

Objectivist/capitalists say that the free market system allows the public to vote with how they spend their money. I say we write letters to the big and small advertisers of the major media. Perhaps we tell them of the scams/shams that have been going on and that we tell them we will begin boycotting their products for years on end unless the major media begins to publish this information. We do this not only to the retailers, but the producers as well. We use the market economy to get what we want.

Who has the energy to lead such a crusade? Who has the charisma and the strength of character to make it happen? Who will be able to stop people from being consumers for a month or two - to tell the big box stores and the car lots we don't want your stuff if the media doesn't change its ways. How will we get the word out? Do you think big media will report on it?

G West's test of my short term memory

G West - I didn't realize I had been censored & I have no idea why - until you pointed it out . . yikes, trying to remember with my overloaded short term memory . . . so I questioned myself:

Was it something about someone getting a promotion because they followed their bosses orders? Could have been . . .

If the Tyee continues along this line with too much redacting - they will lose many of us. I will move full time to BC Mary's & other blogs -

Time for grassroots journalism

The independence alternative to working for the corporations has always been to write a book. The trouble with that, as pointed out, that without the marketing machine behind you nobody will ever get around to even hearing about the book, let alone reading it. There are a few exceptions by people that are really really good, but it's depressing when you compare the sales figures for a Palast or Monbiot to an Anne Coulter, or the 80 million copies sold in the "left behind series."

But even if a journalist is really good, and a jack of all trades so that they don't need any outside help, by the time they get the book researched, written and printed, there will be three or four years expired and the subject will no longer be news. To output news that is well researched and a scoop requires a multi-person organization.

The one thing that has really changed within the last decade, with the internet, is that it is possible to have a corporate infrastructure with virtually no capital expense. Instead of hanging out in these comment sections, not knowing when we've touched on a significant event until after it has been deleted by the editor, and having the content buried in a locked post before anything has time to develop, we would be a lot better off just setting up our own website that concentrates exclusively on investigative journalism of BC politics. We could report both on Campbellgate court trials, as well as on the attempts to sue us and bring us under corporate control.

It would be easier to start our own than it would be to try and force an existing media firm to not be a corporation.

Thanks secondlook

I remember reading the post and the brain's as well but, as I said, they didn't run up any flags for me.

Furthermore, I can't see the rationale. Naturally whatever's been said or written is an allegation - what else could it be?

In this case it's a trial by judge and there's no danger of published material polluting a potential jury pool.

Especially if the comments involved references to extant transcripts of wiretapped conversations that revealed in public court - I can't see the reason for a redaction.

Potential libel or some other violation of the Tyee rules - yes.

However, that's not, ostensibly at least, what the redactions are meant to be for.

Very strange

New journalism

ov
I agree with what you're saying. The necessity of being current means that a book is seldom likely to be of any 'practical' political purpose. That's the power of the daily paper and the evening news.

Several of us have been pushing the local and national media for some time to take up the BCRail story and its related issues. As a matter of popular interest I can imagine it would have been front page news in Ottawa or Ontario. Here in BC, as Bill noted above, it gets some notice in the Globe, less in the other mainstream press and almost nothing in broadcast media.

Even the coverage of the issue - when it has been brought up in Victoria in the Legislature has been pathetic. Liberal MLAs, including the Premier are clearly dodging the reality and the fact no one is pointing that out in the MSMedia is more than just a problem, it's a more or less complete derogation of duty.

While I think the internet and some alternative media outlets have helped to keep the issue alive among concerned readers here and elsewhere, it remains to be seen how this awareness can be moved - without creating a stir in the usual outlets - more onto centre stage where the trial and its implications clearly belong.

Nighty-night

Sharing is Good,

.... maybe at one time we shared a beach. ;-) I dug clams for a number of years between teaching assignments....hard work but often lovely starry skies above ....and great camaraderie among the diggers as you say.

Mary, I think we mostly agree....it's late, I'm getting very sleeepy so I think I'll settle for Sharing is Good's assessment "Lynn and Mary both right". ;-)

And much agree, ov with your words below:

I'm not sure why secondlook's comment was deleted....

In The brain's deleted comment he was predicting the outcome of the trial.

news

I am glad to not hear NW bragging about holding Victoria's feet to the fire. Did someone call them on them on it.

Thanks for that Lynn

Quite strange.

Yes I guess they figured it

Yes I guess they figured it didn't quite work as the silence from the hosts other than Macome has been deafening.

Freedom of the press'd

Someone wrote here (G West?)"If the Tyee continues along this line with too much redacting - they will lose many of us. I will move full time to BC Mary's & other blogs -" I agree! Most of us cheerfully ignore Working Man and the other corporate-siding brainwashed Marketplace Faithful. I don't even waste my time reading or responding to their flaff'n'fluff.

I, too, deplore journalistic prostitution. There is no good excuse for it. No matter what rules were imposed by Radler (Ratler?),the former CEO of the Black-Asper media, a true journalist would have quit instead of continuing the corporate fraudulant line. So I consider Brian Kierans, Jon Ferry, Barbara Yaffe, Andrew Coyne, Vaughn Palmer. Michael Smyth, Tom Flanagan and many, many more to be nothing more than corporate tools--throwing a wrench into the Truth, so to speak; screwing the Facts, etc. True journalists/columnists don't cater to corporate news manipulation. They start their own newspaper and website, if they have to. Yes, they'll likely be poor, but they'll have self-respect...just like the rest of us, eh?:) Writers have other jobs to pay the rent and feed their cakeholes--same as most starving Artists, Dancers, Actors and Musicians.

Oh ... THAT kind of journalist ... the Presstitutes

Marysue ...

Oh, now I get it ... that kind of journalist ... the Presstitutes. The opinionated, boot-licking, shameless purveyors of spin.

Guess I've been skipping over them too often and wasn't really including them in the rank and file working journalists who supply us with what passes for the real news.

But the question remains unanswered: how could they bring about the changes we need in our media? Only Media Management can make those necessary adjustments.

Wasn't me, Marysue

I think those words were written by secondlook just back up the thread here a few steps.

I wrote that I found the idea behind the edits was hard to understand.

I can't get my head around the potential problem with public speculation about the outcome of a court case in a situation where the trial of the accused is being handled by judge and not jury. If that's what the deleted material inferred I still don't understand the noted redactions.

BC Mary

"But the question remains unanswered: how could they bring about the changes we need in our media? Only Media Management can make those necessary adjustments."

If journalists want to consider themselves professionals, they HAVE to change things. If a principal changed a report card with my name on it, without my consent, there would be hell to pay. If a hospital administrator changed a doctor's diagnosis without his/her consent there would be hell to pay. But ... an editor changes your story, with your name on it, and what? You roll over and take it?

One of the best ways to affect change is through collective action. Whether you are on the left or right of the political spectrum, journalists should be sticking up for each other? Don't they have a professional association? Shouldn't that organization censor, in some way, media that is bending the news or corrupting journalistic integrity?

When the local papers started running national editorials it was embarassing for the local press. When asked, the big name journalists looked uncomfortable and you could tell they were upset about it. Interesting how easy it is to take away a reporter's "voice."

The short-term solution is for younger journalists to start investigating stories the way they should be. Take a story where where it leads you while keeping your integrity and professionalism. Make a name for yourself. Post it on your website if no one will pick it up. It seemed to work for Sean Holman. Go, go go! Don't be the sheep that Palmer's generation has become. Be a lion.

Right on, Chris H. re: investigative journalism

"The short-term solution is for younger journalists to start investigating stories the way they should be. Take a story where where it leads you while keeping your integrity and professionalism. Make a name for yourself. Post it on your website if no one will pick it up. It seemed to work for Sean Holman. Go, go go! Don't be the sheep that Palmer's generation has become. Be a lion."Chris H

Indeed - Chris H: Independent investigative journalism IS the short term answer to put the MS Media on notice that they had better start acting in the best interests of the public or they will be left in the dust as being empty. The public generally 'gets the game' of sanitizing that is being played out with the big media outlets.

Definitely, journalists must speak up as a unit & say they have had enough of being muzzled. I remember hearing that Gary Mason in years past, had a huge expose ready to roll but it vanished.

As for Holman . . . I understand that he's been caught sanitizing & blocking on his site so I wouldn't hold him up as any icon of independent journalism!!!LOL

I'll go with BC Mary, Mr. T, Kootcoot's House of Infamy any day - they are thinkers & that is what I respect.

Hopefully I will continue to post on the Tyee, but this redacting comments is a little heavy handed.

Mr. Beers, would you please define more specifically on what basis you are removing material from this comment section. Clearly, many of us are scratching our heads. Thank you.

Well said, Marysue....

And further along the trail of twisted information - if we want to "follow the money" to the biggest pot, look only to the RAV contract....This mystical contract and cocession agreement have yet to be made available after repeated FOI requests by many people and organizations....The largest construction project ever built in Canada, shot in glorious 'P3D' for billions of dollars, and every level of government have their mitts in it.

Hmmm...wonder what they have to hide....

I'm sure the flower baskets and street banners along the route will more than make up for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that individual shopkeepers will have lost, not to mention their very livelihoods, due to the secrecy surrounding the details - what is it they say..."the devil is in the details"...well in this case, perhaps it's the devel...opers are in the details.

I would also say a big THANKS for all who have taken so much time and energy to contribute to these blogs. Much appreciated.

dirty politicians

Thanks Bill.

It is a sad commentary on our politicians of all stripes who will stoop to cheating and straight up lying to line their own pockets.

And people wonder why I am so rabid about throwing a leash onto all politicians in this province.

And for all this they want a raise too? Up yours Gordo!

Mike Summers
Vanderhoof BC

RCMP, Canwest, Bill Moyers

Thanks brain and secondlook for offering some quite plausible answers to my question about why the RCMP would investigate and charge Basi and Virk if they in fact wished to avoid implicating and embarrassing sitting Lib MLAs.

I was also questioning CanWest's impartiality surrounding the raid and related issues.
I'm sure Bill T. is correct about Canwest Global's current coverage of the trial being fairly responsible...but, as some one else asked "where were they for the past 4 years?" !
And, as the brain said:

Once upon a time ( and a Mind ) , in a land far far away* ...

Communications !. Communications. !!Communications . !!!

In a country such as ours , we've managed to hold onto certain key liberties.

The freedom of expression. The freedom of movement . The freedom of thought itself.

I also am troubled by comments / posts that mysteriously disappears.

I would like to remind you , Mr.Beers of a panel discussion you participated into, entitled THE END OF NEWSPAPERS? or something to that effect.

A panel discussion that featured the Publisher of the Vancouver Sun, the Publisher of the Georgial Straight and yes yours truly, the Publisher of The Tyee.

What I recall of that session held at the Vancouver Public Library ( downtown ).. was how well you held up your end of the discussions.* Ably defending the emerging phenomena of the kind of journalism...
( citizen journalist ) and all.., that was represented by the kind of on line magazine you envisioned The Tyee to become.

The most successful part of your presentation was when you suggested that there was indeed a very important DIFFERENCE- technologically driven important difference that permitted the reader to fully participate in the unfolding stories that were '' published .. ... with forums that followed well written articles in The Tyee... An open forum and a place for a continuing DIALOG*

And for the most part , this has been the evolution of the TYEE..*.

What is needed once again , is an explanation and a dialog..,with your contributors Mr. Beers .. as a way to assure them that you are not going down the path of .., deciding which '' letter to the editor '' can be published or not..
as do regularly the MAIN STREAM MEDIA..*

THUS , PLEASE PROVIDE SOME EXPLANATION , TO DISAPPEARING POSTS..,( that I was not able to read with my own eyes )..

I remain fascinated with this EXPERIMENT of yours entitled THE TYEE.., and I would hate to see it go the way of a certain extinct species.., having had but a very short lived lifespan.

Freedom of expression , freedom of thought . In a world where the battle for the minds of individuals is ever omni present..., we have an opportunity to be open ended to be transparent ,to be accountable also.

Let me offer you a definition of INFORMATION*.., what might help you in your response on what troubles your contributors and readers ... at the moment.

Information , in my books.., is a substance capable of activating thought.

PERIOD.

Communications , in my books,is the TRANSPORTATION.. of that substance capable of activating thought.

Within that context / content and rational line, could you explain away how you decide removing a comment that on the surface is but AN OPINION*...by the individual and is by that act , an intellectual property that does not create an inadvertent process that has the on line magasine impugned by it having had the audacity to publish said OPINION.. OR DOES IT ?

No taxpayer pensios for all

No taxpayer pensios for all political criminals! Huge $500,000,000+. fines for all Corporate co-co-consperitors and get rid of TILMA NOW! Fines to go to the poor of Canada for housing etc!
The Canadian Liberal Party should go the way of the Dodo bird!
Let's get a socialist party in "For The People The People" no millionairs!

Cover, cover, cover . . . .

You are welcome, Bobb999.

Well said ov

Mr. Beers - apparently there are many people who believe it is time that you offered a specific explanation for the redacting of comments - please & thank you.

Just heard a rumour that a MSMedia print outlet is going to become a huge sponsor of Vanoc's - can we guess folks? . . . perhaps people really will have to boycott buying their papers - cover, sanitize, cover . . . . .until they themselves feel the heat.

Where oh where has our Democracy gone?

Noon news

Listened to NW's noon news and when they talked about the Basi- Virk trial they congratulated themselves over the hours of time given to the allegations. What a pipe dream

"Well Said Lynn and BC Mary" not....

My comment up the page was inspired by Lynn and BC Mary - not Marysue - note to self: preview before post.....ooops.

Special request to the Story Editor of The Tyee

Chris H,

Oh I wish we lived in the fair and sportsmanlike world you described! Where everyone rises to protest against an injustice to a fellow worker. But like I said, Chris H, that longterm newspaperwoman battled hard -- just as you and others advocate -- against having her work altered. Didn't work. And journalists don't cave in like ... well, let's not go there.

The ones I've known are very bright, quick to get the point (sharp), courageous, thoughtful, usually skeptical, and scarred from many, many battles of the kind you're suggesting they ... ahem! ... begin to think about now.

It's in my heart to thank everyone who has offered their thoughts here on the duties of journalists in a fast-moving, competitive, sometimes cruel environment. This whole thread has been so informative. I had no idea that the working life of a working reporter is such foreign territory.

Bill started this discussion off when he paid tribute to the working journalists who are attending Supreme Court most days for the Basi Virk Basi pre-trial hearings.

Somebody denounced them -- not the Newsroom, the publisher, or the owners -- for the abject failure of the media to give this trial the coverage it deserved.

Then I came along to defend the journalists who go where they're assigned to go, and cover the story they're assigned to cover. I said it was Management controlling the agenda and tried to explain the parameters within which the reporters must work. It ain't easy, what they do.

And the media is so important. We literally cannot live intelligently without having some ways of knowing what's going on in our world.

So isn't there some way we can get it to work right?

Does anybody else feel, as I do, that it'd be good to have somebody from UBC's School of Journalism write a Tyee story sometime soon?

That world exists for those that want it.

"Oh I wish we lived in the fair and sportsmanlike world you described! Where everyone rises to protest against an injustice to a fellow worker."

It does exist. It's there for the taking if you want it. If journalists had any collective backbone they could bring the industry to their knees. My guess is that they are content to grumble in their coffee mugs while doing nothing. Fear is a strong incentive to do nothing I suppose. In the end, if you would let someone else put their words to your name, how could I trust anything you wrote?

I am not saying that being a good company man or women and towing the line makes you a bad person, but enough of the congratulatory hugs on what a fine job they are doing. If you're not part of the solution ....

By the way, BC Mary, keep up the good work! Your integrity and reporting are far superior to most "professional" journalists and my critisms of journalists, in general, was no slight on you.

writers could form a union

I think the union movement needs to come back. It is obvious that the rich are getting filthy rich and they are doing it off the backs of the workers while claiming it is capital and management that has done the work.

The bells are ringing.....

As the poet John Donne wrote:

"Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."

unions

Well put!

Unfortunately our media has managed to taint any and all union movements as something that only benefit a few workers!

They managed to make low-income workers feel that they have no chance to ever get a decent wage!

The managed to make semi-professionals, like the journalist, feel that they were "too good" to be union members!

The secret is that anyone can work towards unionizing his/her place of employement!

The fact is that a strong union movement can force employers as well as governments to act differently!

The problem lies in the fact that most people believe the media!

Look elsewhere and discover that countries with a strong union movement also has less spread between the rich and the poor!

Otherwise just keep complaining!

misquoting poetry (sorry Lynn...)

"Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."

Yeah, well, but that's not what he meant. The bell is death, the tolling of mortality, the common fate of all life no matter what; Hemingway appropriated one phrase for a title, but juxtaposed it on a country of story of death (and life)

Perhaps more apt but in a similar vein is from verses 77 and 78 of Havamal, the Sayings of Odin:

Cattle die
Kinsmen die
One day you die yourself
I know one thing that never dies:
the doom on all men's deeds

Cattle refers to worldly wealth: the word for kinsmen (fraenda) refers to associates and community as well as family; the word for "reputation" is ordstir - things stirred up by words, reputations good and bad)

Doom means not death/mortality exactly, but the path of fate, which ends at death, but refers to the consequences of how one chooses to live)

That's my rendering, half-baked and a bit more literal maybe; the following is Bellows' adaptation/translation:

Cattle die, | and kinsmen die,
And so one dies one's self;
One thing now | that never dies,
The fame of a dead man's deeds.

cite from http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe04.htm

"What you say doesn't matter, it's what you do" - turns up in all kinds of places, even Batman Begins.

And if you do bad things, like the politicians in Victoria seem to have, then it's not something you can hope to outlive; it will long outlive you. That's more or less the point of the Havamal verses....well, of the whole Norse ethic.

Hmmmm, Too bad multiculturalism doesn't celebrate Scandinavian culture and values, huh? And why is that, exactly? They also helped build this country, alongside the patriarchy and materialism of Confucianism or the otherwordly virtue but this-worldly vice of so many other facets in the crown of Canadian multiculturalism. MAybe it's because they're assimilated and therefore now considered a lower class of immigrant stock for supposedly being deculturated.....

not what you say, but what you do....

the implication of that, which I realized wasn't clear, that it's not the info-spin of the moment that allows you to get away with what you're getting away with, but the actual "deed" itself, not the words painted around it, or papering over it.

And that includes...

the ill effects of good intentions, not just the wheedlers, liars, cheats and con men.

Kalevala

Skookum1

Are you familiar with the Kalevala?
Tolkiens big influence?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/index.htm

A part of the main

Don't quite agree with you, Skookum 1, on the Donne quote.

In that passage the bell may indeed be tolling someone's death but Donne is using that metaphor to signify so much more than that. I don't think the passage is about death at all but about life and our shared common humanity.

I posted the quote to keep it short and by way of agreeing with a number of post's above (eg. secondlook's on individual responsibility and Chris H's comment on the need for "collective backbone"....especially when he says "It does exist, "It is there for the taking if you want it.") Those words by Chris quite similar to what Donne says here (in bold print)

Who casts not up his eye to the sun when it rises? but who takes off his eye from a comet when that breaks out? Who bends not his ear to any bell which upon any occasion rings? but who can remove it from that bell which is passing a piece of himself out of this world? No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

No man, woman, teacher, taxi driver or journalist is an island... because "to be involved with mankind" comes with the responsibility to speak out and to act.

Our interconnectedness makes it so.

. . . If you do bad things . . .

"And if you do bad things, like the politicians in Victoria seem to have, then it's not something you can hope to outlive; it will long outlive you. That's more or less the point of the Havamal verses....well, of the whole Norse ethic."Skookum1

I agree - a good reputation is something that cannot be bought - a bad reputation/bad deeds will haunt you into your karmic future.

BTW - Skookum1 do you use the Runes?

How much responsibility --

How much responsibility -- on our behalf -- is a working journalist expected to take on?

Can journalists, hired to see, observe, write reports, actually influence the massive organizations now steering Big Media?

And no expectations from the employers?

I just don't get it. Was thinking about all this as I read about the Thomson family buying into Reuters, e.g.,

How the Reuters Founders "golden share" works

The Reuters share structure includes two mechanisms designed to safeguard the company's independence

The following is how the system works:

• No person may hold 15 per cent or more of Reuters issued shares.
• If that did happen, Reuters directors would be required to ensure the holding is reduced to below 15 per cent.
• In addition to the publicly traded shares, a single Founders Share carries significant voting powers. The share is owned by Reuters Founders Share Company Limited, a private company set up in 1984 when Reuters floated in London.
• The directors of Reuters Founders Share Company can exercise enough voting power to support or defeat any proposal by a person or their associates seeking to obtain control of Reuters.
• In addition, Reuters Founders Share Company can use the Founders Share mechanism to defeat any plan to alter any of the Articles of Association of Reuters Group PLC relating to the Reuters Trust Principles.

The Reuters Trust Principles include:

• Reuters shall at no time pass into the hands of any one interest, group or faction.
• The integrity, independence and freedom from bias of Reuters will always be preserved.
• Reuters will supply unbiased and reliable news services.

Source: Reuters

May 08, 2007 08:26 AM
Mark Potter
Reuters

LONDON. Publisher Thomson Corp. is in talks to buy Reuters Group Plc for about 8.8 billion pounds ($17.6 billion U.S.) to create the world's biggest news and financial data company, the two firms said on Tuesday.

Under the terms of the proposed deal, Reuters CEO Tom Glocer would become chief executive of a dual-listed group to be called Thomson-Reuters, the companies said in a joint statement.

Reuters investors would get 352.5 pence in cash and 0.16 Thomson stock for each share, equivalent to 697 pence a share at Monday's closing prices.

That would be 42 per cent above Reuters close on Thursday, the day before it announced a bid approach. The deal value is based on the number of outstanding Reuters shares. Etc.

In other words, even the best of Big Media has an agenda much like Wal-Mart. And of course, the individual shop-clerk is free to protest Wal-Mart ethics and practices, too ...

The fact that the protesting journalist (or Wall-Mart shop clerk) is knocked flat doesn't make him negligent in his duty. This is what I don't understand.

Tieleman says thanks again and clarifies

Thanks again to all those who left kind comments on my article - and I will be filing another big piece for Monday's Tyee!

I want to be clear on the issue of media responsibility: I have pointed out several times here and elsewhere that good reporting is being done by CanWest Global reporters and media outlets.

I have NOT said that I think CanWest and other media have done a great job covering this important case. Unfortunately Basi-Virk has been mostly neglected for years until the trial date approached at last.

As regular readers know, I've broken several stories on this front - including the bizarre news of Erik Bornmann's articling position in Toronto in his attempt to become a lawyer, and his subsequent departure from McCarthy Tetrault, the Paul Martin-backing law firm that hired him.

So, to be clear, let's make sure we acknowledge the coverage that is happening and at the same time point out the coverage that isn't happening and that should have been done in the past.

Thanks again!

Bill Tieleman

"I never blame the reporters ... "

Bill:

I was so glad to see the comment you wrote on Pacific Gazetteer web-site:

You said: CBC Radio and TV respectively have been in attendance a lot this past several days. I never blame reporters in any event but it appears that CBC did not allocate any resources to the case early on - glad to see that corrected.

"I never blame the reporters in any event ..."

Yes ... yes ... Yes ... YES ... YES !!

Tainted info

.

I would say, Bill, that's understating it some. It's not only unfortunate it has been intentionally and shamefully orchestrated.

I think there are a number of good reporters, and some really great ones and there is certainly no question that Big Corporate Media plays the central part in what has become a information wasteland when it comes to the public's right-to know. But reporters are as accountable as anyone else when it comes to the necessity of confronting a controlling, unethical boss, just like anyone else....and of having to bear the consequences, just like anyone else.

Since information is the most powerful currency today, indeed the source of all power, journalists I would think through their professional code of ethics have the biggest moral responsibility to obtain that information for the public and to somehow make that information known.

A waitress bears absolutely no responsibilty for the existence of tainted food at a restaurant at which she may work but I would think she had a moral responsibility when it comes to knowingly serving that food to customers....and she would have to decide whether she wants to work for a restaurant that would make her do so.

I dunno Mary

For all the increase in the CBC 'presence' in Courtroom 54 I haven't seen (or heard) much difference in their reporting.

In fact, I've hardly heard anything from them - radio or TV - at all. AM Radio 690, much to my chagrin, seems much more interested in chatty-Cathy exchanges between Rick Cluff and his producer/director Ms Tobin. That is, when they aren’t patting each other on the back over the fact that the show is now, apparently, the most listened-to station in the Lower Mainland in their time slot.

Not a word about the embarrassing performance by Berardino's ‘stand in’ Ms Winteringham and her technical side-kick.

Not a word about the fact that the public interest - which was said to be so high on Madame Justice Elizabeth Bennett's scorecard just a couple of months ago – doesn’t even extend to making the dialogue in the court audible to the folks in the visitors gallery.

Not a shred of documentary proof offered for public view and analysis relative to the mysterious 14 affidavits mentioned by Crown yesterday.

Not a whisper about Bill Berardino, Q.C., and his prominent absence from the court for the last couple of weeks - especially when the Crown was discussing the 'alleged' deal worked out between the crown (read Bill Berardino, Q.C.) and its main witness - Erik Bornmann.

Not a bit of explanation about how Mr. Bornmann could produce - as if on demand (on December 28, 2003) - a document almost as lengthy as the Notice of Application for Discovery filed by the Defence on February 26, 2007.

Not a word about where the long list of missing documents, reports, transcripts and files – each carefully catalogued with numerical references that made up the last several pages of that 'Application' are now.

Not a word of debate relative to documents once said to be missing or non-existent: things like RCM Police notebooks that have subsequently appeared as out of thin air.

I don't know exactly where all of the blame ought to be placed. However I'm highly dubious of any suggestion that the 'public interest' is being served by the group of PUBLIC SERVANTS who are oath-bound to pay heed to the concept and who are currently ‘working’ in the staid atmosphere of courtroom Number 54. CBC employees are PUBLIC SERVANTS too – last time I checked, some of the local ones seem more interested in something else entirely.

I’ll happily re-assess this judgment when someone from the CBC starts paying even a tenth of the attention to this case that the network is currently lavishing on a little project about SEVEN CANADIAN WONDERS. I wonder when they’ll get with the program.

Sorry for being so cynical

I agree, G West.

The CBC has badly let the public down for some time now. Where is that once "bold voice" we all counted on?

I'm starting to wonder if this has any connection to the federal Liberal (I'll say "alleged") links to the BBV story.... if a questioning of funding or future funding for the CBC is playing a role in this?

should be "a question" of

should be "a question" of funding

Funding

Lynn,
There is certainly something going on at the Mother corp. I think they've hired a number of PR people from down South and their influence on programming is more and more evident all the time. And Cluff’s producer/Director used to work with Rafe Mair.

I did know the names and I can remember some of the statements they made when they took over. I don't know about the funding or the budget issues but, I'd say it's very likely that the Cabinet have told them they have to get numbers up and increase Ad revenues and viewership.

I think I can recall Antonia Z doing a couple of columns on Bev Oda and her priorities during the past year at the Star. Of course CanWest is more likely to support a gun in every kitchen than say anything positive about public broadcasting so we won't be hearing much from them.

I know several people who've been pushing CBC hard to get busy and do some real analysis of the political situation behind the BC Rail case. So far, no cigar.

Sad.

Afternoon AM radio (2 - 6 pm) is a vast wasteland. Oh for a return to Bob Kerr and Off the Record. At least the music was uplifting.

HELLO! The People of Canada

HELLO! The People of Canada are calling for the Real, Proud voice once again of "OUR" CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION to grab a Conscience and become Conscientious objectors!

CBC

lynn said, "I'm starting to wonder if this has any connection to the federal Liberal (I'll say "alleged") links to the BBV story.... if a questioning of funding or future funding for the CBC is playing a role in this?

I did hear a story about the trial on CBC radio yesterday. This is the only time I ever heard one. I wonder if Carol Taylor still has some connection with CBC and they are following her wishes and style to remain silent.

Tyee tolerance - O.T. meanderings

One thing I like about Tyee commenters and editors both, is that valuable tangents, asides, meanderings and detours are tolerated in the comments.
The John Donne poem discussion, for instance.
I was glad to be reminded (thanks to Lynn "ringing them bells" again!) of lines such as:
"No man is an island... any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

Familiar lines, though I wasn't even certain of their source (beyond that I'd heard my Dad quote some of them on occasion).

I like the sentiment those lines communicate about human interconnectedness,
as Lynn suggests.

One dilemma: Many of us have, over time,grown our capacity for compassion. But one outcome of this can be the relentless cruelty seemingly built into nature (both human nature and the natural world) and chronicled in the news daily, can become more and more intolerable,
harder to accept, and overwhelming with time, with no easy fixes apparent, if there are any fixes on the horizon at all!

I believe human interconnectedness, and interconnectedness of the Universe, is a truth. I just wish this was somehow recognized and celebrated more widely, instead of ignored and denied, which only serves to create more violence, intolerance, injustice.

And thanks to Skookum1 and Bobthecat for drawing attention to that wonderful looking web site, www.sacred-texts.com, which I'm very glad to know about now.

I was looking for podcasts of sacred texts online recently, without much success. I'd enjoy being able to listen to
recitings of the Upanishads as one example, and many other texts, as well as poetry from online!

Still blaming the journalists? They don't run the corporations.

Wonderful minute or two today on Newsworld, when one of the CBC's top journalist Brian Stewart stood on a soap-box outside CBC hq and addressed the crowd on the street. It was a rally in support of journalists world-wide who are being shot at, abused, kidnapped, beheaded, held captive, disappeared, whatever ... "Enough is enough," and "It's got to stop," they were saying.

It just so happened that I also saw, this morning, a very unusual, excellent article on this topic written by Mitch Anderson (who frequents The Tyee). It's on his blog, and is called Journalistic Malpractice. Highly recommended.

These are the two things that working journalists can do to protect themselves and uphold their professional integrity. They can understand the set-up. They can rally against the set-up.

Mitch Anderson makes it easier to see the forces arrayed against journalists and what they/we can do about it.

Fascism Once more let me

Fascism
Once more let me remind you what fascism is. It need not wear a brown shirt or a green shirt - it may even wear a dress shirt. Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing that people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege.
T.C.Douglas

BC www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHESRvUEhcY
Fed www.youtube.com/watch?v=gulOgUBGZeU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRt

The problem with lying

The thing about people is that they live in the world they think they know. They act appropriately, even honourably most of the time, based on what they believe is true.

When someone lies, especially someone in authority, they create a second reality, a version, an image of the world. A false one.

People will believe, and act on it as if it were true. They will take decisions based on it, make plans and carry them out, all based on the damnable lie. New realities will come into being. Each one based on false assumptions, themselves based on false assumptions. Each farther and farther from the true reality of the world.

Soon, actions begin to have more and more random and unpredictable effects. One acts in a way that should create one consequence, but in fact creates different and puzzling ones, because the world is not at all what one thought when one acted. And we have no way to know why.

How can humanity possibly entertain hope for the future when our actions are unrelated to the true nature of the world? This is the real crime of the liars, the secret keepers and power theives.

They steal our hope to ever live in peace. Secure in our families and our communities, able to build substantial lives brick on brick, and expect what we build to stand.

Why should it? How could it, when it's built on foundations that aren't really there?

Quote:I know one thing that

Bailey, I was thinking how that powerful line from Havamal, the Sayings of Odin that Skookum 1 quoted fitted in with your thoughtful piece about the multi-layers and the complexities of our lies and our assumptions... an example being that "990 years" BC Rail ( "but not a sale") lie that against all logic was able to resurrect itself as truth, somehow made believable, almost benign by the liars - the fiction, the falsity of it calculated to be carried forward into time just as you suggest. That's certainly "the doom of men's deeds".

Great to read you again, too, Bobb999....I've been trying to find some more stuff on Sheldrake and like you I also enjoyed that website link from bobthecat and Skookum 1 as well.

North of Hope, you may be right, the problem, as always, is finding the fingerprints. ;-)

C'mon it's just a mere 990 years

For a feel of the real enormity of the BC Rail lie, and the intentional trivialization and minimization of its consequences, David Shreck offered this great observation on his site at the time of the sale:

Good point Lynn

At least the decisions about what to do with what's left of BCRAIL in 990 years won't have anything to do with Gordon Campbell. Our descendents 45 generations down the tube won't be dealing with him. Although, the way things are going – and that reminds me of an old song:

Christ you know it ain’t easy,

You know how hard it can be

They’re going to crucify me!

The man in the mac said, "you’ve got to turn back".

You know they didn’t even give us a chance.

Christ you know it ain’t easy,

You know how hard it can be.

The way things are going

They’re going to crucify me.

Gordo’s life Wikip It may

Gordo’s life Wikip

It may be Yankee news but the similarities are very evident!
Big money and big business, corporations and commerce, are again the undisputed overlords of politics and government. The (my input "BC Politics or Feds") White House, the Congress and, increasingly, the judiciary, reflect their interests. We appear to have a government run by remote control from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers and the American Petroleum Institute. To hell with everyone else: Bill Moyers - PBS Commentator
Not a thing on TV News about BC's Rail scandal so Campbell’s media lackeys. Shame on the whole lot of so called investigative reporters, sleep well oh sheepal of fascist tyranny

These criminals in gordo's

These criminals in gordo's boys government should all be taken down NOW!The Cancer in OUR Democratic system is and has been on life support far to long and it's time to take it back!
Do We really need this kind of government? Government = just another name for organized crime.
http://republic-news.org/archive/46-repub/rep
Bennett's comments regarding Montague were interpreted by most media to mean she had effectively headed off any further speculation of a political conspiracy popular among the public. The outline of that conspiracy theory has it that Montague, BCTV reporter John Daly, and then-opposition and BC Liberal leader (now premier) Gordon Campbell collaborated to destroy Clark's political career and to skewer the left-leaning NDP's chances in the next provincial election by drumming up false allegations and illegally using police services to pursue a phony investigation of Clark that would embarrass him publicly. Instead, Bennett's acquittal of Clark could fuel a blaze which may reach all the way up to the Prime Minister's Office.
Campbell using cops, media, lies, corruption the whole shebang?

990 years

Hey, the rail bed will revert back to BCers
in no time at all...Why the fuss over "a mere 990 years", a blink of an eye in geologic time?!

Good to read you again too Lynn!
On Sheldrake: Recently I enjoyed listening to some podcasts he has up on his site, including a few recorded at BC's own Hollyhock on Cortez Island, together with his pal Dr. Andrew Weil, the popular holistic health practitioner, who I also like.