Topic
Want to eat local? You'll have to get in line.
Short on supply.
If you're one of those people who has the next week's winter farmer's market pencilled in on your calendar, you've probably already learned to contend with the stampede.
"The demand for local produce is skyrocketing and there is nothing we can do to stop it," says Tara McDonald, pointing to the record-breaking sales her organization, Your Local Farmer's Market Society, is chalking up once again this year. When all is said and done, her three markets will likely have sold two million dollars of farm-fresh goods in 2006.
Eating locally has become something of a micro-craze: in 2005, shoppers snapped up an average of $10,000 worth of edibles an hour at the bottle-necked bazaar in East Vancouver, which, like its counterpart at Riley Park, has become hectic and overcrowded.
But while fans of the 100-Mile Diet are justified in seeing the trend as cause for jubilation, the once-folksy weekend affairs have grown too big for their britches. A look at what it will take to expand the markets shows that McDonald, who's dead-set on heaping up this city's dinner-plates with as much home-grown goodness as possible, has her work cut out for her.
Canada's organic growers declining
The rising interest in eating local and eating healthy has to contend with a national decline in organic growers and a dependence on foreign food, according to a recently released Canadian Organic Growers report. The study showed that while demand for pesticide and GMO-free food is up 20 per cent a year in Canada, more than 90 per cent of organics come from the U.S. or overseas. Not only that, but the number of organic producers is actually declining in Canada.
B.C., the nation's organic anomaly, showed "strong growth" in 2005, according to the report's author, Anne Macey. But even though the number of organic farms in the province was up 9.5 per cent over 2004, it's unlikely that trend will continue.
McDonald says many of the vendors in her society -- many of whom are or are becoming organic -- are looking to retire soon, and wondering who will take over when they do.
"This is really a very critical issue and a turning point in British Columbia," she says.
At 62 years of age, long-time organic vegetable producer Susan Davidson puts irony of the problem in perspective with the following: "We've come a long way in 20 years," she explains. "Now we've got a ton of people that want to buy local, we've got a few bits of land that we've protected, and we've exhausted all the farmers."
Davidson isn't interested in trying to sow more acres and cash in on the local eating fad. She's hoping instead to recruit young people into the co-operative agricultural lifestyle she's enjoyed over the years.
"I want to grow more farmers," she says simply.
Real estate pressures and the shrinking availability of farmland are two factors that weigh on her mind. As developers pry more and more farmland out of the Agricultural Land Reserve, it stands to reason that the shrinking acreage left over will become too expensive for new ranks of local growers to buy.
Meat processing bottleneck
There are other worries local markets have to contend with, according to Laura Telford, who works at with Canadian Organic Growers: another snag is a dire lack of processing facilities, especially for meat.
According to Telford, demand for organic livestock grows between 40 and 60 per cent a year. Supply, however, lags far behind: "People cannot find organic meat and they are asking everybody for it."
Jennifer Cunningham, the sole lamb vendor at any of the farmer's markets in Vancouver, says she has to pull a lot of strings just to have her animals butchered.
Getting animals into a slaughterhouse is nearly impossible for smaller operations like hers, a 2000-acre ranch north of Kamloops. And processing her livestock got that much harder with a recent provincial decision to force all animals sold for public consumption to be slaughtered at licensed facilities rather than on farms themselves, as they used to be. This puts more pressure on existing plants, says Cunningham, and means the likelihood of seeing new specialty meat vendors crop up at Vancouver markets pretty slim.
"A lot of the processing plants aren't set up for feeding local," she says.
The costs at the organic plant she uses in Salmon Arm are high. Testimony to the sheer scale of modern industrial agriculture, she has to pay an $80 fee per lamb, in part so the entrails and offal can be trucked off to Alberta. The reason: there are no licensed incinerators in B.C.
Given financial and bureaucratic disincentives like these, Cunningham says the premium prices Vancouverites will pay are the only thing that keeps her way of life alive.
"If we didn't have that, I would have been out of agriculture a long time ago."
Limits to local markets
According to several surveys they've conducted, McDonald says at least 15 to 20 per cent of Trout Lake's clientele make a weekly trip from their homes on the west side of the city, which is something she wants to change.
"Our mandate is really to establish neighbourhood farmer's markets, so that people can walk or ride their bicycles," she says.
Kitsilano, Dunbar, Kerrisdale and Marpole have all sent requests to McDonald, asking her to bring markets to their communities.
Devorah Kahn, however, is skeptical that the popularity of the Trout Lake market could be repeated. Kahn, co-ordinator of Vancouver's Food Policy Council, says neighbourhoods like Kitsilano already have lots of competitive food stores that cater to local eaters, places like Capers and Choices.
Some vendors, for their part, balk at the idea of partitioning Trout Lake or Riley Park. The owners of Little Qualicum Cheeseworks, for example, say they couldn't manage to set up shop at any other locations because they can't afford more staff.
"We simply couldn't spread ourselves any thinner," says Nancy Gourlay, on the phone in her parlour in Parksville. Catching ferries, loading vehicles, setting up and selling at two of the three Vancouver markets (which are staggered so vendors can operate at both and thus keep clients closer to home) is already a logistical tightrope for Gourlay, who prefers a high concentration of clients to running around to five different places.
Hot products
They don't exactly grow cheesemakers on trees these days, either. Which means that if McDonald does manage to create new markets in different neighbourhoods, each new locale will be hard-pressed to find the kind of big-ticket vendors -- the ones who sell things like grass-fed beef, goat's cheese and organic mutton -- that at present are the main attractions. Not willing to miss out, people make the drive to Trout Lake.
McDonald knows the problem all too well, and is determined to resolve it by convincing B.C.'s producers to effect a shift in the regional economy and "bring things back home."
"BC's producers are very much set up for export right now. So it's going to take years to kind of bring the contracts back around to the local market," she says.
McDonald has met many producers that would be happy to supply restaurants and households here in the Lower Mainland, but doing so requires extensive planning.
"People have to re-strategize," she says, since it takes time to restructure things like land use, contracts, crop rotations, barn-building, machinery, and land acquisition.
Legal limbo
Switching gears from export to domestic markets also requires certain assurances that the local market is stable and reliable, says McDonald.
Farmer's markets currently operate in a state of legal limbo, which may make convincing more growers to come on board a tough sell.
"Even though the markets have been going for 12 years, we operate via a special events permit at all of our venues," says McDonald. Year in, year out, she has to justify the raison d'être for the markets at city hall just to win the necessary approval.
"In any given year it could be removed, it could be shortened, we could be physically moved," she says. "And we may be at a number of our locations because they are Olympic development sites."
Both the Riley Park and Trout Lake markets are in fact being shooed from their current sites by construction for 2010; the former for a curling facility and the latter a skating rink.
If the mere thought of Vancouver 2010 induces slight pangs of nausea or even dread for many in the city, McDonald, by contrast, is hoping to leverage the Olympics in order to entrench the markets as a Vancouver institution. "To become a part of the city's landscape," she says, adding in the next breath that continual news of 2010 cost overruns has her worried about that dream becoming a reality.
Olympic dreams
Assuming it does, what would that look like? Once they can secure permanent locations, the society will raise enough money to build covered structures at each market, starting with Riley Park, which has such a building in the works under the 2010 master plan for those grounds. The structures would be multi-purpose and free for public use most days of the week. They'll also ensure customers don't have to run for cover during the downpours that kill market days at present.
But for structures to go up at existing and new markets, McDonald will need to get a couple of things accomplished at city hall. The first is to convince the parks board that farmer's markets are a justifiable use of public green space. The second, more difficult, project is to pass a legal framework that would give the society the right to set up markets in certain areas, like schools or parks.
The latter, according to Kahn, is highly unlikely.
"Currently there is no real mention of markets in any of the zoning by-laws" she says. Changing them, however, would be "a very big piece of work," likely 20 years in the making. But she can see why the society views the permanence issue as key to get them to the next step.
"Farmer's markets being able to be used on any zoning would ease that concern," she says.
Shopping 'intensity'
Re-zoning headaches, bureaucratic hurdles, aging growers, shrinking farmland and the promises of an over-budget Olympic committee: the farmer's market society has an up-hill battle ahead of it. In the meantime, expect line-ups and maybe even a little un-Canadian elbowing as you jockey for some rare prize at the city's farmer's markets over the weekend and into next summer.
Davidson, on one hand both delighted and thankful to be earning a living from the wave of interest, says she's also a bit worried that the local eating movement is becoming a victim of it's own popularity. At Vancouver's winter markets, the high number of people can feel a bit like a crush of consumers.
"It's nobody's good time having that kind of intensity happening in what is supposed to be a slow-food movement," she surmises. "It's almost on the edge of becoming anti-social."
Related Tyee stories:
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
41
Login or register to post comments
DJT
6 years ago
Comments on "Slow Food's Growing Pains"
The "demand for local produce is skyrocketing". That's great, but this will all be moot if our provincial government, in their infinite (and shortsighted) wisdom continue to allow farmland to be developed to line the pockets of their business cronies/ financial donors. By the time they get through with this province, "local" will mean California.
maestro
6 years ago
Why does this not surpise me that this agri-vision is in the " conservative hot bed " of East Van ....LOL ?
However, playing socialist for a day...go ahead, C-L-O-S-E the BC borders to imported food products from say NOV. to FEB.
Now....Watch people starve.
There is no local production of "green grocer" type -of -produce for many months of the year , other than stored root vegetables ie potatoes, carrots etc. Even the local greenhouse co-ops tend to shut down due to higher costs of production during the colder and shorter day -sunlight deficient months.
If one can make a go of a small niche' market ie these farmer's markets, and create niche small businesess, GOOD ON YA...and CONGRATULATIONS.
Why these boogeyman fears of transporting food long distances continue is beyond me. Ever heard of free trade???...and many food products are produced in surplus and controlled by marketing boards?
Why worry just about food?..why not automobiles etc which many of us ALSO rely on...should we become self- sufficient in auto production...how about appliances, OR computers...yeeessshhh.
However expanding this agri-niche' beyond the status -quo and thus into a much grander scale is impractical and misleading. Also , I advise that the farm market clientele make sure they are getting locally produced products, not simply re-labelled imported products.
clubofrome
6 years ago
That's my new years resolution! To learn how to farm. I have a friend with a garden plot I can share. So where do I start? Is there a gardening/farming for dummies bible out there? Eating local doesn't just mean buying local, but should also mean growing local. We've had this talk before. All schools should devote a part of their fields to gardens and teaching farming, a mandatory lesson for life. This shouldn't just be a news story about a roof top garden on some elemenatry school in Toronto. It should be part of the curiculum, period. The approach to the many challenges facing us must apply acroos the board and we need to act soon. I applaud all the efforts towards understanding how our food arrives at our table. Hmmm... wasn't there a song, from the seventies... "Grow your own?"
I'll guess Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen.
DPL
6 years ago
Sure we all talk abut buying local produce,as our government keeps taking land from the Agricultural Land Reserve.
Check the two about to be finsihed treaties, bot have ALR land being handed over with no stipulation that that land remains Agricultural.
Our family farms on the Saanich Peninsula and markets are a bit crazy as the regular customers show up before starting time. But farms keep getting squeezed and some property owners are trying to get their land out of the reserve and into developments. The farmers get little or no subsidies. Fuel and seed costs go up,labour costs rise, the farmer simply pays and the customer doesn't like to see a price hike. Old WAC was asked about the land along #3 road in Richmond that was not being left as farm land. Wacky said, what's the issue, you can buy it cheaper from California. With that sort of a mind set the real farmer is simply getting poorer. The imported produce has to be bought as oranges and bananas don't do well around here. But other fruits do well. some leafy vegetables are grown year round. and the grandkids all worked for their parents in the fields and were paid so their university training was partly subsidied by their earning, along wth a number of other kids who did the same on other local farms. None of them are going to farm.
rob
6 years ago
How to pass the farm on to younger farmers, just as this excellent article points out, is one of the major concerns of growers raising food for the local market in the Okanagan.
In the Okanagan region a kind of mentoring is going on where the owner will work with a young farm couple for several years. They do the labour and benefit from the management skills of a more experienced grower. Long term leases or some other agreement needs to be devised. Perhaps even community ownership of land that young farmers can use without having to bear the huge capital costs.
They had a local food dinner and discussion in Armstrong that Angela Reid and I attended. The other thing that emerged was the need for an all season Farmer's Market in an appropriate building.
A final thought from these very experienced and professional growers, many of them doing custom orders for the high end Winery Estate Restaurants, as well as Farmers Markets and Box Delivery programs, was that they needed to work together more.
This article does a really good job of outlining the problems that farmers face in meeting the surging demand for biologically produced local food.
A key point that I raised at the farmers meeting was that prices had to be high enough to cover the extra cost of winter production ( one established Salad Green producer told me he was just starting to gear up for winter production... ). People need to see the benefits of spending more for nutritious, fresh local food. That will occur as consumers become more educated about the food system and the real benefits of local food. Since corporate concentration in the BC certified organic secotr has occurred and both Pro-Organics and Wild West are owned by a company that produces environmental equipment for pulp mills ( Stake Technologies ), farm gate prices for certified organic are being squeezed. That is a worrisome trend.
All the problems that the article listed are solvable at the community level because of the power that Municipalities and Regional Districts have after years of downloading of services. Also many people want local food and are willing to pay the price. The Farmer's Market in Kelowna is like a feeding frenzy where the food flies off the the shelf. The first BC Certified Organic Peaches of the season caused a line up of about 20 people at the farmers booth!!! But it is worth it.
Great job of bringing these important issues to a wider public.
RickW
6 years ago
Highly doubt it. Just think of all those pristine front lawns in suburbia that could finally be put to some useful purpose.
maestro
6 years ago
Rick W
" Starve " point was in reference to those that feel we are self -sustaining year round or can be.
When I go to the green grocer I tend to have a look at the packing boxes point of origin, usually a three letter abbreviation starting with "U" and ending in "A"
Like many issues, the same straw man arguments , such as trucking farm products long distances are oft repeated. So? ,...they always have been and always will be. Domestic production of many farm products is probably impossible or just as costly as imported.
Front lawns? LOL ...again, " very seasonal" in a best case scenario.
rob
6 years ago
Maestro brings up a good point - what do you do when the fresh market season is over? Well, as Elliot Coleman points out, grow certain greens all season. You can use methods to extend the season as well.
You also do things like canning, drying and freezing of food when it is available. You cannot have local strawberries in February but you can enjoy local strawberry jam.
I believe about 10% of Global Greenhouse Gases are from the transportation of food. Food that has traveled for days on the road is picked unripe, when nutrient levels are low. Food value is also lost on the road. The cheap imports that make up a lot of our winter diets have low nutritional quality, that is part of the reason chronic diseases like obesity and diabetes are rising so quickly amongst BC children.
Rick W is correct. Some research shows we could produce all the food we need if lawns were converted to biointensive gardens. A large amount of global food production actually takes place on small plots in urban areas.
This article helps consumers understand their experiences in trying to buy more local food. Why is it getting so crowded and feels like Boxing Day all the time? It is because there is far more demand then production and people are competing for a scarce resource. Why don't farmers just produce more? Well, they do not have the young workers or they have had a busy season and want a break or prices are being squeezed by the Giant Retailers and Winter growing is not worth it.
What is the answer? Well you can be sure it will be easier said then done:
1. young, skilled labour
2. continued strong prices for local and sustainable food
3. consumer education
4. financial support for convetional growers to transition
to BC certified organic farming methods
which consumers demand
5. improved infrastructure for small scale producers &
processors
6. year round farmers markets in well designed facilities
7. a way for young farmers to have long term access to land
without having to bear all the capital costs
The best way to preserve farmland is to have young farmers making money off it. They do not necessarily have to own the land but just have secure legal access to it for long enoung, say 30 year lease.
The good news is that a strong BC market exists for local food AND people are willing to pay more for food they trust.
That is a necessary foundation for self sustaining solutions.
maestro
6 years ago
Re: Organic
2 out of the last 3 years we have bought an ORGANIC Turkey from a local Ma and Pa Butcher.
The cost is approx $2.50 to $3.00 per pound. We buy a rather large one and ends up costing $70 - $80 dollars.
A Non - certified organic turkey can be bought for approx. 1/3 the price. To be honest, I can't taste much difference.
People , by and large, will buy what is on sale and the cheapest. Organic, in my view, will only have a small niche' following.
====================================
Also, can someone expand on what winter food products (ie produce etc.) can be grown locally ? I see some leaf vegetables, ie cabbages? harvested in mid to late fall, usually by small operations, but that's about it.
maestro
6 years ago
In the big picture...secured access to farmland will be difficult. Anyone new farmer wishing to farm likley won't be able to purchase, but will have to lease.
Much of the land that is leased and farmed is done for property tax purposes, given the Farm Status provided by BC Assessment.
A property that shows certain farm income benchmarks can be eligible for taxes 1/10 or less of that which may be taxed otherwise if they had no farm income...property taxes are NOT synonymous with the fact it is deemed agriculturally zoned.
However large percentages of land deemed agricultural sit vacant, the owners are simply not interested in leasing them.
Urban gardens are nice ideas, but in my experience, most of the Urban farmers are 50+ years old...and their children have no interest. Can't say I have ever seen a front yard garden either.
RickW
6 years ago
maestro:
Obviously, you ain't a farmer.....also, seems that the native folk that used to haunt these here parts did not truck in their victuals from "away".
RickW
6 years ago
Hmm! Have you perused the 100 mile diet......?
http://thetyee.ca/Life/2005/06/28/HundredMileDiet/
maestro
6 years ago
Rick W:
No. I really haven't seen any " front lawn" Urban gardens, and I have driven for years throughout the GVRD's denser areas. Most urban gardens I am aware of are back -yard "farmed " by the pre -baby boomer generation, many of whom have or are downsizing and selling the urban "single -family home" farm.
Thanks for the link, but it seems to still imply mostly root vegetables, which in my view really don't count....they are grown during the spring and summer months , and simply stored, though technically " local and available during the winter ".
Re farmers.. No , I am not a farmer, but many in my family are or have been farmers.
One extended family member runs one of the most popular green grocers in the GVRD, but if it wasn't for imported produce to supplement the short season for locally grown, , they would have closed their doors LONG ago.
The irony is many local farmers grow "pumpkins" as a cash crop, for Hallowe'en, which is mostly for ornamental use, not for food for a healthy lifestyle, (though we ourselves do save the seeds to roast and the pumpkin inner scrapings for pies). That's what a lot of farming has reverted to.
I think the broader issue is both choice and sustainability. If people want to go Organic...MORE POWER TO THEM .
However, to put forward the premise that "organic" and/or " local" will sustain ALL of us ...that is very idealistic, and in my view, IMpractical, for many reasons.
rob
6 years ago
Yes, the wealthy residential owners who are 'farming for tax purposes' are tying up valuable farmland that young farmers could have access to. Much consumer education would be needed to muster the political support for such needed changes to Tax law, e.g. if your land is being used by a young farm couple using biological farming methods then you get the farm tax rate, if not then you pay the residential rate.
Here are some greens that can be grown all year round, from an article in Common Ground magazine, November 2006
Here’s a sample of some of the meals we enjoy from October to April, months in which food gardens are usually considered unproductive.
A typical winter salad consists of a little bit of many things growing in the garden. I tear up young leaves of red Russian kale, Dutch curled kale, perpetual spinach, chard, arugula and corn salad, toss in some finely shredded tender baby leeks, and add chopped parsley, cilantro and scallions.
Taste is can be very personal. Most consumers say they can taste the difference between a certified organic carrot and a chemically saturated one. Can you taste the difference between a bird fed certified organic food and with access to space to run around in compared to a factory farm turkey that if fed antibiotics with it's feed everyday and whose feed contains genetically engineered contamination? Maybe, maybe not. I understand the large cost having an impact on buying decisions. We buy convetional birds sometime but try to avoid food from BSE Alberta and get meat from small local butchers where we can ask where it comes from. We also buy certified organic meat directly from the farmers but the cost does give one pause.
It will take time to educate consumers about the benefits of local, biological food compared to the pitfalls of cheap industrial food imports. Governments and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency claim their is no nutritional difference between industrial food and certified organic food. I guess they haven't read the report from the Dieticians of Canada web site from 2004 which says that certified organic food has higher Vitamins C levels and lower levels of cancer casuing nitrates then conventional food.
Do not get me started on the health risks from Genetically Engineered contamination of our food...!!
In 1977 I was at BCIT taking Food Production and got a summer job at the UBC Agriculture Canada research station. The lead scientist of the project I was working on had dug up his front lawn and planted a garden instead. That was before there were any Farmers Markets to speak of, before certified organic food took off and when the food co-ops where just starting.
There are no easy, short term solutions to the issues raised in this excellent article. First, people have to understand what the issues are. A good way to get young people interested in gardening is to have more School gardens and include some information in the school curriculum. Aging farmers is a huge global problem that the whole community needs to focus on in order to solve it.
RickW
6 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_(book)
maestro
6 years ago
Hi Rob:
If not mistaken you and I discussed this related topic way back in the summer/2006.
This issue is like many...there is a multi -headed hydra attached to it and we are barely tickling one follicle.
Lets be blunt, its always a good starting point..which inevitably leads to discussions about money. Land is valuable PERIOD.
QUESTION: What is the highest and best use ?
If anyone's land is to be used for farming...which is a baseline use as most Agricultural zonings are... will society be willing to guarantee a minimum income, lets say $ X per sq. ft. of farmland .
That's A/THE starting point.
If not, you will see the current system of less and less local farmers and higher and higher reliance on imports.
One cannot have ones cake..or carrots... or corn ...or lettuce ...or...and eat it too.
RickW
6 years ago
It's all about location, location, location though......and it's all relative. Land "values" are entirely skewed between country and city, and indeed within the city itself. The best use to which land can be put is the building of high rise condos. Suburbia is an anomaly, and has arisen strictly as a reflection of conspicuous consumption. "Look at me! Look at me! I have so much wealth, I don't NEED to plant carrots! I can plant grass and NOT have goats/sheep/cows!"
But Not having one's own supply of carrots/sheep, et al, doesn't mean that goats/cows etc. are not essential. It merely shifts this essentiality to some other parcel of land, whether it be in the hinterland or out of the country entirely. Therefore, the absolute VALUE of the agricultural land is priceless, if only because the suburban dweller will starve to death, watching his grass grow. Yet the monetary value of the agricultural land is far below that of the useless 'burb property, and it is only when the prospect of REMOVING said ALR land from any kind of agricultural use is contemplated that it's monetary value rises.
maestro
6 years ago
Rick W.
Well, good points, but this gets into quasi-collectivism discussions.
Start with say two extreme baseline values, ie (i) High -Rise zoned land in the West end of Vancouver as one extreme, and (ii) Agricultural -zoned Land as another.
Now the Vancouver residents' property value has increased and will continue to increase. They will also whine about eco-footprints, secured food supplies , (perhaps organic as well re: local food supplies) etc. ALSO: FYI most of Vancouver's Agriculturally -zoned land is South of Marine drive, near Point Grey area and into golf course use.
The person with the farmland will see the property value differentiation between NON -farmland and farmland as ever increasing. That farmer, whether an established farmer or new farmer,would then say...."OK... time to pay the Piper...if this is to be farmland in perpetuity, we have to determine an adjusted agri- commodity value or a Subsidy" . (As an example,approx. 100 acres of FARMLAND in our area is selling for $10-15 million dollars).
THUS....What would be the minimum return on farming to make any/all agricultural pursuits worthwhile and long term.
I'm sure we could hire an expert to determine what THAT value for any / all agricultural commodity is. Suffice it to say it would be a huge jump in prices for your local agri-products following this formula..my quick guesstimate is 5-10 fold.
However, given our local tax structure....if it is NOT farmed, it's property tax is approx $700 per $100,000 in value. If it IS farmed, it works out to approx $50 per $100,000. So compare the numbers.
I think any data you access will indicate a large percentage of agri-zoned land sits UNused, hence the tax penalty is often willingly incurred, and those that do farm are likley parties whose land has ben locked in for decades, ie they are focred to farm for tax reasons. These will eventually get bought up by others who will leave them vacant.
You can't force anyone to farm...or we get into another huge legal issue.
RickW
6 years ago
When Mr. Suburbia is staring at his lawn and starving, ask him what he would be willing to pay Mr. Farmer for his turnips.......
You are entirely correct, using the present value system -- in which food supply figures not one whit (food being considered a freebie, like air and water). But the present system is skewed -- food ain't free. It is in fact subsidized (although the farmers don't get much of this subsidy). The average plate of food on the average dinner table, in the average home in this country has travelled 2500 miles, largely on roads paid for out of the public purse. Remove just this one subsidy, and local food would suddenly become much more affordable (by virture of the fact that all that food you see in the supermarket would become much, much more expensive).
Etc., etc., etc......
maestro
6 years ago
Re Subsidies:
In my philisophical view, everything is "inter" and "intra" - subsidized, but that's what creates a civilized society. The list is huge .
Roads have often been bought and paid for years ago, now its simply paying operating cost give or take a capital project.
We, domestically , can't solely live on corn, cranberries or blueberries ie some of our major domestic crops...and our local farmers would likely not survive on a limited domestic market...ie they need to export their agri-products. The same situation exists elsewhere, the "survival-mode " result is " trade ". If we didn't trade, the local farmer would likely die off, for the reasons outlined , then an even greater reliance on imports.
Certain markets are domestic, ie dairy products, but then again that involves marketing boards and quotas. One will find the "quotas" seem to be THE commodity investment ,and not necessarily the actual product. One dairy farmer I know mused about perhaps purchasing some extra quota, tens of thousands of $$$ "per unit" the last time we spoke.
Re "Organic"....It's nice in theory but is it practical...??? One person interviewed mentioned that many "natural" toxins exist in organic foods which may not have existed otherwise.., dangerous "natural" bacteria....things like free range chickens pecking away at dead rats .....
Organic is too dependent on an idealistic amalmagam of "natural variables" in sync and if they don't pan out and line up the consequences may ultimately bankrupt the farmer.
rob
6 years ago
Good discussion guys! The issue of land value as set by the marketplace is a good starting point. Right now we are in a zoom zoom housing boom that at some point will come back to Earth because nothing goes up forever.
Should farmland compete with speculative real estate prices when the value of the land is divorced from real benefits associated with that land. In Kelowna you buy a residential lot for 250,000. and that is far more then you can produce even selling certified organic grapes to a winery. But, the land is not sold every year so it only generates revenue at sale.
Farmland generates income every year although not enough for the people farming to pay millions an acre. There is no question that a cheap food policy is robbing farmers and cheating us out of vital nutrients. People have shown a willingness to spend more for certified organic food because it is food they trust. That is a good thing because it more closely ties the health and well being of urban people with the financial health and well being of local farmers.
Maestro, you are correct in saying it would be hard to all of a sudden produce all the food we eat on a local basis. I am not opposed to some imported food, especially when it helps farmers in other parts of the world. I like coffee but have weaned myself from out of season delicacies that must travel thousands and thousands of kilommeters and simply adds more profit to Giant Food Corporations.
The only thing I am sure about is the importance of continuing to educate an interested public in local food issues.
People are always criticizing organic farming for using manure or 'natural' pesticides or for some other reason. The research I have seen and my own experience is selling pesticides to large scale grain farmers and working as an organic inspector for the last 15 years is that there are far more risks from conventional practices then from organic.
There are strict rules on the use of manure under BC organic certification standards but minimum requirements for conventional use. Many studies have shown that organic (I actually prefer using the words local & biological farming practices due to the rise of industrial organic agriculture) can produce enough food in a safe way.
I like these discussions because of the thoughtful comments that people make. It is interesting to see how people are thinking about these critical issues.
One last point on organics. A 2004 Canadian senate committee report on value added agriculture noted that more growers should be supported to transition to organics because we are barely meeting 10 - 20 percent of our local demand with local production. The report recommended paying farmers a premium during the three year transitional period. This is what is done in Europe and it is what the big corporations are doing to try and meet surging demand.
A recent announcement from the Harper government was that Statistics Canada was going to start tracking the retail side or the Canadian organic marketplace. This is good because now all such information is in the hands of private companies.
Canadians need to rediscover the benefits of investing in farmers ). Paying conventional farmers more during their transition to organics is an investment in our future. Local and sustainable ( which includes issues like energy conservation and treatment of farm workers ) are strong grassroots trends. Public investments here would pay much better returns then the 200million dollar bridge they are building in Kelowna which will just increase poor air quality downtown, but that is another story.
Take care Maestro and Rick W., no doubt we will chat again
G West
6 years ago
First thing - and most difficult - is ending the cheap food policy. Without some rational approach to tax policy first this is going to be impossible to do.
First make the economic relationships between the segments of the culture truly equitable and democratic - then real miracles can happen.
Until then, it's just a question of preaching to the converted while everyone else ignores you and does the best they can to play with rigged dice.
Sorry!
maestro
6 years ago
Hello again:
There should be more of a side discussion, perhaps even a future TYEE topic, something along the lines of "Politics and Agriculture". (I don't wish the digress into a globally based discussion and 3rd world food shortages , not that that isn't a worthy discussion on its own).
I posted this comment in a previous discussion , but my nephew is studying in Europe. He said a huge portion of the European countries taxes go disproportionally towards the proportionally fewer farmers and farming subsidies. I don't think this is related to food production, but instead moreso due to food OVER-production.
This implies that perhaps Gov'ts want to maintain what is effectively an baseline industry for various reasons. Are they fearful the farmers will quit, everyone will starve , ..... OR perhaps morseo become a political force and say the land is good for squat.
Then what ???
I suppose the European farmer is fiscally encouraged to produce " X " amount of agricultural output but maybe only 50% is used. The only solution towards bridging agri-viability is subsidy.
Don't we all recall the U.S. used to pay farmers to NOT grow anything, if it still doesn't do it? My understanding was they used to pay them regardless of production, and collect the surplus and dispose of it, then later realizing the " DO NOT GROW payment " was actually more cost - effective.
It's a bizarre facet of overall society, one which creates many armchair discussions.
RickW
6 years ago
When there are large, centralized governments, "anomolies" such as you mention must necessarily exist, because underlying all of this is the notion of "progress", "direction", "pulling together for the common good", "cogs in the wheel", and all that claptrap. The only reason for the organization of society is the "production" of excess bodies.
maestro
6 years ago
In the Good Old Days....
I suppose centuries ago when societies were mostly agrarian - based the individual was far more self -reliant. They(farmers) didn't necessarily live or die by the " sword " but, in fact by the " plough" or ploughshare and survival depended on how adept they were at wielding it. Perhaps farmers were the true free -enterprisers/capitalists.
Given mankind has shown continual growth,...somehow a critical mass was reached in every civilization were urbanization was the choice vs simply an expanded rural society. With that came other forms of progess, new ideas, discoveries inventions,and even perhaps "Democracy- by- default" in an urban society as a means of survival vs barbarism. In other words as populations grew was urbanization UNavoidable and an inevitable fate for the " I think, therefore I am " beast aka " Man ".
I view modern (urban)society as basically various versions of a core " socialism ". Mutual interdependence and symbiotic inter-reliance. We tend to foster and encourage niche' expertise in each individual versus a broader " Jack- of- all- Trades " approach which stand -alone farmers often were.
The proof -in- the -pudding would be to one day have the Gov't declare " OK you are ALL on your own " ....and see how many would survive.
How would the niche' specialist ie Doctor, Lawyer, Teacher, Carpenter ,Plumber, Computer programmer survive,how their more basic needs like food would be met, as currently their role is like worker bees in the urban hive. They are really 100% reliant on what is a non -socialist entity, the rural " capitalist " - farmer who society often treats to as some indentured slave who owes society something. I thought THAT model went out 100's of years ago.
I have never been convinced that any " Hi Rise " building couldn't be converted into an agricultural pursuit...say gut a downtown Vancouver Hi-Rise building and raise livestock on the lower floor and crops on the upper floors...Lord knows the " Grow-ops" industry has shown this as feasible.
This goes back to my premise of the Politics of Agriculture, there is far more than meets the eye, and unfortunately the public falls for the agri-motherhood issue "B.S." and all facets of the political spectrum take advantage of it. Concentrating people " much like livestock " serves the benefit of a few to the detriment of many.
Too many closed minds with knee-jerk views in my experience, and again, all Gov'ts of all political stripes here and elsewhere take full advantage of it.
Hence my skepticism on many things on this very surficial agri-front/facade.
Stump
6 years ago
Hard to see how farmers (esp. those that farmed for subsistence before the rise of cities and the need for commercial crops) as the original capitalists.
I recommend a book entitled "The English Yeoman" available at the VPL for a better idea of how farmers operated prior to the Industrial Revolution.
Alan D
6 years ago
There is an excellent organization called LLAFF that addresses the farm land situation on southern Vancouver Island. The website address seems to have been saboutaged by some other site, so I got the following information from lifecycles.org:
Linking Land and Future Farmers (LLAFF)
Linking Land and Future Farmers is a non-profit organization working to match small-scale organic farmers with landowners who would like their land to be farmed.
LLAFF was started in 1994 by our local organic farming community to assist new organic farmers who could not afford to buy land to farm on southern Vancouver Island. Although members must make their own matches, LLAFF offers other assistance to new farmers including: a tool lending library, farming and education grants, sample leases and partnership planning information. Visit llaff.org for more information or phone 250-361-1747.
Alan D
6 years ago
Sorry that should have been lifecyclesproject.ca
Fish-counter
6 years ago
The slow food movement: we have one in Nanaimo. It is a great idea, to take a step back/forward to the time when we grew our own food in the back yard. Yet there are non-profit societies with large grants to do something which is basically any home-owners choice. Lots of people do grow their own food, but they quickly realise it is a lot of work.
With all the lead paint that has been used on picket fences over the past 100 years, and the pressure-treated wood, there are some nasty chemicals in the back yard. The soil mnay not be as clean as we think.
maestro
6 years ago
Stump:
Many areas were settled via Crown Grants,and people homesteaded. Often the requirement was based in certain improvements within certain time frames. The almost defacto implied agrarian pursuits ie people farmed the land. Much was subsistence based, but they formed the roots for towns to establish. Local farmers fed the towns.
If you want to research current capitalist farmers...go to the big ones in the Lower Mainland..and ask them how long they have owned it? Most of them will say their grandfathers or great grandfathers ORIGINALLY owned it... hence the family business is passed down. Often they have no choice but to continue it.
Farmers are capitalists at minimum by default...actually I don't know any farmers that would even remotely be to the contrary. This is not a charity or a public donation.
Unless allied with a marketing board they are on their own with few if any subsidies and subject to all the risk.
Personally, I love home grown garden food...family members used to grow vegetables for years,say 500 - 800 sq.ft. patch but it can be a hassle...watering, weeding...etc. Gave up on tomatoes due to the blight...etc...they have sold the home and live in a condo
Otherwise, this Slow Food is simply a niche' issue and good luck to those who wish to pursue it. Niche's like this inherently will not cater to the needs of the majority. ( We have not even discussed the commercial greenhouse issue ).
Stump
6 years ago
I think you've confused a capitalist with a business person. The two are not interchangeable.
maestro
6 years ago
They (ie capitalist and businessman) overlap far more than they don't.
If the farmers united on par with OPEC it would be an even more interesting discussion.
Not the first time , nor the last time THE TYEE will bring this agri-issue up.
Ciao (and chow)
Stump
6 years ago
So, you're telling me that people who are given land and then use it are capitalists?
Certainly capitalist and businessman overlap sometimes. However, I'm having a hard time seeing where capitalist and farmer (esp. the ones described by you) overlap.
Stump
6 years ago
I didn't mean to kill the thread by pointing out the inaccuracy of the terminology being used. Where'd you go Maestro?
maestro
6 years ago
Right Here Stump;
( Sometimes anothee TYEE issue takes up another's attention span, I'm sure we all agree).
OK ....maybe my use of "capitalist" to describe a businessman was a bit of hyperbole, but the original context was the Rural versus Urban demarcation.
Actually, I have an archived document which shows Crown Grants divided up much of our area. That's usually the genesis of what transpires later. This leads to dribs and drabs of other interesting info, ie Local Gov'ts were empowered(or more greatly empowered) at the turn of the century (ie I think around 1906 via the information I have).
Then the Crown Grants (which usually originally involve subdivision into massive acreages) are themselves subdivided..and then the genesis of Non Farm residential lots...then Cities are seeded from these .... then we evolve to the Urban vs. Rural demarcation.
However, one had to attract the seed pioneers who were generally farmers. As you said earlier, it was likely substinence at the start, but seems pre-destined to attract more, and critical masses of population are achieved that inevitably evolve to a non -agrarian society.
The irony is the newcomers which the pioneers laid the foundation for often tell these pioneers and their future generations what their future roles are in society...versus "equal rights"....which I find rather ironic...and UNdemocratic.
To Be Continued.
maestro
6 years ago
Stump:
One unfortunate thing about archival info is that much of the original text (including Gov't documents) is handwritten and often quasi-illegible. One often has to spend a lot ot time reading and re-reading to decipher it.
However,...the trail shows various Crown Grants ended up being subdivided, the once large farms subdivided into city sized lots/subdivisions. This attracts Non -farmers, simply because there is not enough land available on a small lot to farm, thus their substinence livelihood is non agrarian( ie mill workers, tradepeople, professionals etc.etc. = URBAN careers)
However, the farmers now see an increasing market for their production... beyond substinence, now they become capitalist/ businessmen...which can be defined as " privately - owned and operated for profit ".
If one has an understanding of the Tax Laws as they pertain to land..etc..the "socialistic" Urban laws literally force any "land rich" Rural farmer to become a " capitalist", morseo those farm families that have had the land for generations ie the pioneers....hence my original premise.
IF the farmer doesn't become a Rural capitalist via socialist Urban laws...they may "lose the farm"...another capitalist farmer likely can't afford it...and then
a deep -pocketed NON -farmer often ends
up purchasing it.
The Urban crowd by definition is almost always the majority, and FAR outnumbers the Rural crowd within the same jurisdictional democracy.
Ironic isn't it, when one scrapes off the BS ?
Stump
6 years ago
I understand what you are saying, but I find it to be a tenous connection at best. A bit like saying a Ford Escort and a Ferrari Testarossa are both cars, therefore they must both be sports cars, or econo-boxes.
maestro
6 years ago
Stump:
Well, the farmer could revert back to self -sufficiency /substinence and hence survive.
However, Modern Urban society could not.It is so integrated and interdependent, a myriad of dominos with negative potential.
THUS,...Who holds the cards IF and WHEN the shite hits the fan ?
Tenuous connection? Well now you have wondering....
Stump
6 years ago
Umm, I thought we were debating the issue of farmer as capitalist, not who is best suited to the times after the manure makes contact with the fan, but before the 'damn, dirty apes' run the show.
My point being, if I say the word capitalist, I doubt many people see in their mind's eye a dude in a straw hat atop a tractor.
Stump
6 years ago
This to me is a description of free enterprise, not necessarily capitalism, although I concede there is overlap. One could also include mercantilism, worker-owned cooperatives, and other forms of business under the heading 'private, profit-driven enterprises'.
maestro
6 years ago
Stump:
Actually, the " privately owned and operated for profit " is a dictionary definition for capitalism....but not that I want to get into hair -splitting semantics and etymology -based discussions. Language and nomenclature continually evolves.
Suffice it to say, on or before Election day, especially Provincially, I can't ever recall seeing an election sign posted on what can be reasonably deemed a Farm that is also in support of any Left- of -Center/NON -Capitalist political party.
Farmers, in essence , are , in our modern society, "indentured-servitude capitalists" (little choice via various rules and legislation), but ALSO original capitalist /" businessmen " as well.
Back to this "Slow Food" issue..... Those that wish to try "organic" etc.production may find some niche' but whether they can make a go beyond substinence(which we discussed before) and likley lower income is still to be seen...MY guess is they WON'T, ..they will be up against the more established big players who have learned what the magic fiscal numbers are. That's why I call it a niche' versus a major player.
The further irony is that if for some reason, this Slow Food etc, takes off, it will compromise the economic viability of the existing farmers.
My in -laws left the Prairies in the 1950's because back then they saw that larger farms were more the natural economic order.
Right now, one can see good loam soil all over the Lower Mainland being converted to Blueberries...the prices have been good...but as another EX- Prairie friend of mine said...this will glut the market and create price collapses. He said the "Prairie Logic" in this history repeating itself was to plant something else...and NOT copy the herd mentality....ie the other commodities would rebound and go along for THAT fiscal ride.
Also, there is a disease out there called the "scorch", no cure has been found...it apparently affects both bluebberies and cranberries...and it may in time have major implications to the agri-industry.