Hi:

This is Phil Hochstein
(......aka G West ....aka " Alci" .....aka.....)

maestro
loved your piece on the other site. Never realized Phil Donohue and Marlo Thomas were the philosophers you most respect. I was kind of thinking you were an Oprah/Dr Phil kinda guy!

Now I can fit your economic musings into their proper - simply entertainment - category too.

Very helpful.

Alci aka " Phil " Hochstein....:

Dude....Again ....as per usual, misinterpreted...

Phil D. and Marlo T. are the p$eudo- rep martyr$ for the Liberal Leftie Ltd. cause. When either talk I quasi- "rohrschact test" associate them with certain " no -names -mentioned " TYEE bloggers.

(aka Bring in the TYEE clones).

" DOCTOR " Phil was great in the last Scary Movie parody. Oprah has graciously and thankfully evolved into a Wal-Mart-ish generic talk show. If it wasn't for Jerry Springer and his uber class act...the Leftie Ltd view would be the Spotted Owl of Leftie Ltd. intellecti...and then Mr. Marlo Thomas would have to come out of retirement. See.... very simple if you politely ask.

ALSO: " TG " and " N " were doing the in - depth profiling...didn't ya catch the diagnosis ? They have ya fig'd out.

Ah well....

No more - no less serious than the repetitive rhetoric that this TYEE topic will predictably and inevitably bring forward,as this topic was previously hashed - out in the past TYEE "Canadian Ironworkers" blog.

Whatever gave you that idea.

You are way too immersed in yankee culture dude.

RAV is massive ponsie scheme, where a $2.5 billion subway is being built strictly for political ego. To keep the vast construction costs down, the bored subway was then built as a cut and cover and wages had to be slashed.

Still the RAV go on and no RCMP investigation is being done. There is plenty of f***d to go around, from TransLink right up to the Premier's office.

Yet no police investigation and a free pass by the Asper Press and CORUS radio - shame on the lot of them!

Come on, Grumpy, you are beating a dead horse on this one.

Alci:

No...not at all immersed in Yankee culture.

Moreso , unfortunately, immersed in the Canadian/Canadien version of so- called culture.

However,...The Leftie Ltd. culture is more and more trans - national, the 49th parallel "border" for all intents and purposes doesn't exist...the same Kool Aid/bathwater is provided, supplied and swallowed in bulk on both sides...getting tougher to see much that differentiates U.S vs. Canada Leftie-ism.

Canadian beer is , however, better, with the possible exception of Coors.

If you think Barbra Streisand and Phil Donohue are leftists, maestro, I want to let you start the bidding for the Granville Street bridge. I'm selling it you know.

Alci:

Hmmm...intriguing....

Is there a minimum bid....???

Can I put tolls on it....???

Do I get exclusive rights(including re naming ) that deny any competing bridges for a 10- mile radius ???.

Oh yeah..can I import labour from the Republic of East Van to run the toll booths ?

PS re celebs....Don't forget Alec Baldwin...he who was going to bail out of the U.S, when Dubya was elected....(what's his current zip code???)but then again anyone who was once hooked up with Kim Bassinger can't be all bad ...aka the RED blooded in 'im.

Highly recommend is his performance in TEAM AMERICA: World Police...some people actually think that those were Leftie Ltd. puppets being represented as a cheap facsimile.

Babs and Mr Marlo Thomas are very clone representative of the Left...talk...and laugh all the way to the bank...thus a Catch- 22 self- fulfilling definition ....QED.

No.

The bidding starts at 10 of whatever you’ve got.

Just trolls - under it I mean.

I'd kind of forgotten crazy Alec; his brother Stephen (or is it Steven) is getting all the attention with his born agin' act....you still don't get what the left is all about.

I recommend a few years intensive study of Marx – the smarter one, with the beard, not Zeppo I think you’ve been reading the wrong brother, brother.

Alci:

Lest we forget the sacrifces made by the Canadians in South Park: the movie...attempted nuking of the entire Baldwin Leftie clan...that secret clandestine initiative under the Federal Liberal reign made one feel proud to be a Canadian...and truly and eternally grateful they missed Kim Bassinger Baldwin.

BTW Trolls is in West van....no bridge above..nice micro brew pub next door, though

DoRAVRight may put some of the TransLink Board members in jail! Their submission to the BC Court of Appeal may tip the balance!

Maybe Hier Oppal will get cold feet and order an RCMP investigation or is he just an oreo Cookie?

Maybe CORUS will run afoul of the CRTC for deliberately censoring the truth on Brand-X 98. Maybe Bill Boring will not get an Order of Canada.

Grumpy makes some good points.

I know a property manager who works for a major Vancouver commercial Landlord. Some of their properties run along the RAV route...and the RAV construction will have a major impact on them and their tenants, mostlty ma and pa businesses.

This RAV intitiative is scary, and a bypass of due process. This person tells me much of the inner scoop, all the meetings, days in Court...more meetings...much the public isn't aware of.

In a big picture view...we should all be concerned how these numerous Public Mega projects get proposed and decided, with basically squat all public input and more importantly, all the blank cheques that are continually shoved down our throats.

Given the almost nouveau formulaic " blank - cheque " path/s these public intitiatives are taking ,....one day we will have such a H-U-G-E gap between (i) undemocratically imposed public COSTS and (ii) the Public's ability to pay.....then watch the ripple - effect when the shite hits the fan. New Cash grabs here and cash grabs there only compound the problem and thus expedite the inevitable judgement day.

There is, as the saying goes...ultimately only ONE taxpayer...

Ah! but there are so many opportunities for the BCLiberals to arrange payoffs for their friends!

You might want to start looking, maestro, at what the current government has planned for the future of hydro generation in this province.

If you think RAV and the Olympics are a rip-off of the public, along with fire-sale Natural Gas royalties and drilling fees, wait till you see what's coming down the pike in electrical generation.

While you've been spending your time foaming about Dave Barrett and the ALR, someone else has had their hand in the till, at least that what it's starting to look like to me.

You may have noticed the premier's announcement yesterday about forced P3 partnerships in all Govt. projects over $20M. Among other things.

Yep!
Like promising to finally increase the welfare rate.... in four months + the implementation time!
It took the same Premier 1 day to cut the taxes for the wealthy.
sure is a difference between classes in this province

Nobody mentions that when the new crime wave of the GATS is signed by Ottawa, the importation of slave labour will be legal and all presently owned and controlled public services will be up for grab by the multinational corporate mafia.

This is what the railways and the lumber giants are waiting for and this is why the interior is being depopulated.

Ed Deak.

"Wednesday's LRB session heard testimony from Retes that his pay for the first five 12-hour shifts he worked in April came to only $188, well below the B.C. minimum wage. SELI spokesmen have told the LRB that the April and June payments were not full wages for the time worked those months. They were merely advances, they say, against full payment to come later."

LOL. No doubt April and June payments would have continued if they were allowed to get away with it. The problem is that there is no teeth to our labour laws. The worst case scenerio for the company is that they will have to pay their workers what they owed them in the first place. With that kind of penalty why not try and get away with paying them less? From what I hear, auto dealers do it all the time to their salespeople.

Maestro- the sad fact is that TransLink, especially TransLink chair, Mayor(I'll vote for RAV if we get an Olympic skating oval) Brodie, is telling all these ma and pa operations that RAV will greatly increase their business. It ain't going to happen. If anything, subways see reduces business along their lines!

Sadly TransLink planning guru's, including Glenny L., who haven't a clue what the difference is between LRT and a subway/metro, have confused facts about LRT with subway.

Cities with newly built on-street LRT, have seen businesses along the route, increase sales by over 10%. Subways. operating underground, have the opposite effect. With surface operating LRT, with convenient stops, customers can board and alight easily, but with a subway, customers do not see surface businesses and with further spaced stops, getting on and off a subway is a bother!

Anyone who says that RAV will increase business along its route is a bare faced liar & fraud artist!

And here it is, the future, and will be, until working folks in this country finally get the message, dig in, and start fighting back against these global corp exploiters. This is bullshitt, and is obvious to all of us. These outfits and the government of this country which kisses their ass are the enemy. Period.

They all need to be shut down and driven out of the country.

It's still a matter of finding enough folks with the cojones and maracas though. Everybody is still waiting to see a desert out there, a wasteland, no trees, only minimum wage jobs, and the Empire stars and bars being hoisted up and flapping in the breeze over the land, like we was just some friggin' Iwo Jima.

British Columbians purchase off shore mfd vehicles, and many off shore products to cut costs. The result is the local unionized workers get laid off to the point that the walmarts of this world are winning by paying low wages. BC people should support the local workers so we can hire them with a wage or salary that is technically acceptable to our cost of living. For example; I phoned telus one day to make a change and found out that the call centre was in India.
I would like to see more local support.

G.West:

As I've blogged on before...all sorts of interesting nouveau "quasi-gov't" phenomenon are evolving.

One of the latest bandolero bravados was YVR..considering Tolls on the Arthur Laing Bridge. The hoi polloi that run YVR like a feudal kingdom seem to think they own the bridge.....and resent Richmond commuter traffic.

Any peckerhead can charge the airline clientele a fee...ie $10-15 dollars...(best called ransom) , then look good re-investing in the airport with never-ending construction projects...but at least the consolation is that its not solely plucking the domestic citizens for its funding.

They at YVR Ltd. seem to have let it slip their minds that the Canadian Taxpayer funded the bridge to a Canadian Publically owned airport....we ALL own it.

Similarly , GVRD, Translink, etc. are all Star -Chamber type of entitities populated by faceless bureaucrats and clueless politicos. NO accountability.

However,....The Left is as guilty as the rest.

Seems to be that the formal democratic process is being bypassed via these peripherally empowered entities. Local Gov'ts are not supposed to run into deficits, but if they create these types of quasi- Gov'ts they can sidestep that level of fiscal accountability and create their own projects and the a variety of subsequent cash grabs to fund them.(ie Don't blame us Local Gov'ts ...blame " them ").

Simply building monuments to their egos...maybe we should all send all of them a message in the upcoming Civic elections, pre 2010.

PS Re Davey and his ilk....I hear the party popcorn/peanut stand went broke... AGAIN....and that again explains why WAC was and still is your hero, G -ster, good on ya.

Alive wrote,

When it comes to the needs of working class folks, organized and unorganized, the special needs of women and families, and the poor, there is a so-called "democratic" gauntlet that has to be run. When it comes to the ruling business class, there is but a trough of nutritious and glittering slops for them to keep their noses buried in.

And it ain't gonna change anytime soon, not this side of this rich man's manipulated version of democracy, until folks find the wherewithall to cut through the crap, take it to the streets, as is going on in Mexico right now, and engage "the status quo system" in a way that breaks through all the corporate media bueraucracy complicity. Renders it null and void, irrelevant.

Ordinary folks need to find it in themselves and within the organizations they have created and yet need to create, to take the way we deal with this Neocon capitalist system, to a whole new entire level of challenge. And until then, this here is the way it is going to continue and get worse and worse.

It's a matter of either suck it up, or slug it out. And right now all I hear are the slurping sounds of the ruling class pigs at the trough, and the thunderous silence, with maybe a bit of whining, coming from the cheap seats.

There's too many victims still, and too few goddamn street warriors.

Save for you folks taking on that fight for more housing spaces for the poor in Vancouver. Good job. Hang in there.

Fait's right. We're up against ruling class gangsterism here.

Grumpy:

You are correct....Brodie and others will make all sorts of positive spin/ claims to Ma and Pa businesses. All Bullshite.

LRT makes sense in many ways, but one major one is the positive effect on business. To me its a natural fit with business, and we had it decades ago. We seem to forget how Cities like San Fran have embraced them...we just call them cable cars.

Subways act as camouflage to the negative element..I wonder if they at Translink have a plan to stop homeless people from setting up residence down there ??? (Oh I see, we're Canadian,... we are different, it can't /won't happen here ,....right !!!)

I had mentioned this is other blogs, but the other RAV /SkyTrain major and ever less hidden agenda will be to create a ribbon of major densification along its route. Cambie area was apparently pencilled in years ago to accomodate future/major growth, as Vancouver needs areas designated for future growth as it runs into an increasing land shortage. Note Cambie is on the edege of NON West side...ie East Van. SUN newspaper reported this years ago. The entire SkyTrain route has high rises popping up in Surrey, New West, Vancouver ,...Burnaby...now Richmond.

Those Ma and Pa businesses are simply meat in the grinder for this bigger agenda. Cities are the biggest SkyTrain junkies...the DCC's they grab for each hi-rise tower built is better than printing $$$'s . However, they are increasingly re-zoning Non residential area ie industrial and light commercial into residential zoning...

This re-zoning to residential of course displaces a crucial non-residential portion of the overall tax base...but then again wasn't RAV and Skytrain being built for commuters to ACTUALLY get to work at these very commercial and industrial locales faster with less vehicular pollution ? Seems rather conflicting and contradictory logic to me...back to my quickie Cash Grab $$$ premise...Public Transit is a simply a red and red -ink herring. The whole thing is a mobile version of the 1976 Montreal Olympics...yet it is also ironically from Quebec,...a major white elephant we will be paying for for years to come.

Oh yeah...regarding displacement and changing times..That RED LIGHT district is now at your local City Hall...GVRD plays the pimp.

All emotionality aside, on an evidential level, if these guys are caught cheating their own people and defrauding their employers, defrauding Revenue Canada seems a good bet too, in light of the falsified wage records.

People who will do that are unlikely to stop there. What other elements of the deal are then likely to be crooked?

P3, isn't it?

I say evidence of crime likely exists here. Or at least reasonable cause for an investigation.

In light of the Basi/Virk matter pointing to endemic bribery in this government, and in light also of the government's insistance on P3s in spite of massive evidence showing that worldwide these deliver far less value for money and far more problems than traditional government controlled contracting methods, this must be thoroughly looked at, and all aspects must be exposed to public scrutiny.

The irregularities in the awarding of this contract against the stated wishes of the relevant authorities at the time, the unexplained changes in the methods of carrying out the work after the contract was awarded, now these irregularities in the subcontracts all add up to strong indications of organized crime. Multilevel crime. Conspiritorial crime.

Why would anyone trust the work enough to place the lives of Vancouver commuters underground in the tunnels built with this process? Why would anyone assume the work itself wouldn't be falsified too?

Bailey...you are correct/good points.

Any project should have a relevant cost breakdown , and should also have within it a variable called WAGE RATES. These are figured into the overall bids..that's a NO - brainer.

I am simply attempting at working from the non -partisan a-political premise that the whole damn thing is one big past ,...present and future scam "white elephant" and will benefit a limited few with a worst bang for the buck considering other options , but it seems all sides of the formal ie elected and empowered political spectrum "suckle the $$$ teat" to foster their own agendas...hence my own generic skepticism/cynicism.

If one is owed "$X" one should be paid "$X" pure and simple. These types of projects are notorious for cost overruns via many unknowns and often have contingency clauses in the contracts. This lowballed paycheque scam may be a sign of serious problems at the start,....and robbing Peter to pay Paul...or perhaps even robbing all.

You seem to allude to the glory days of U.S. Crime families who made as much $$$ on skimming bids than perhaps selling drugs and prostitution...but then again more RAV and Skytrain in conjunction with our laughable Justice System provide the perfect "P3 partnership " in transporting more drugs, criminals via property crime ,... money laundering to casinos, .....hookers...and guess what...more $$$ from raised taxes (after GVRD increases to pay for past present and future white elephants) for more Justice Industry "teat suckers" to solve the collateral damage effects of RAV etc. and thus fail us even more in a Catch-22 fashion.

That's progress !!!
World class shite- hole .

Oh Boyyy.....Gawwwdd !

When the voters in this province wise up and kick Gordy and friends out to somewhere else, I pity the folks trying to check the books.My goodness even her in the little town of Victoria the schemers, decided to shut down a tourist thing at Crystal gardens. The selected by cabinet guys to oversee the place, made a contract with some guys. We pay for the rebuild of the place but can't yet see the contract. The new BC Experience went broke. The bank got what was left, nobody else got anything. Oh it couldn't go broke because a big name local entrepreneur was running it. It still went broke. The standard rumour doing the rounds is we need a casino in the place.The present mayor of this town, who happens to be a well known architect told the movers and shakers the cost to fix the place up would be far more than they were estimating. Heck what does he know. Turns out he was pretty close to the figures and of course we foot the bill otherwise he would never know. The local sports place was to be build by another entrepreneur, won't cost us a dime and it will be on time. Hire the unions, no way. everyone sued everyone else. It was a year late opening and still not finished. 3p's always work , like heck they do. Go ask the imported workers what they are making an hour, it won't be as advertised. What a bunch of liars we have running this province into the ground. The economy is pretty hot so a lot of folks don't complain. Now the profits of natural gas has dropped 50 percent things might reuqire a few more casino's, more on line gambling as well

You can be sure it didn't hurt Mel Cooper much DPL!

Don't you think they had it their mind all along as a potential site for a downtown casino?

Maestro, San Francisco does indeed have cable cars, but they are mainly for the tourist crowd, although they make sense on those steep hills. San Fran has kept and is expanding its 40 mile streetcar/LRT system. Plans are to once again extend the track across the Bay Bridge.

The densification is needed cry by TransLink and the GVRD, is nothing but myth. The problem is that for all the money we spent on SkyTrain (total to date $5 billion), it hasn't attracted the motorist from the car. The only way to increase ridership, is to increase density, but this is fools planning, yet the GVRD is goose-stepping with TransLink and the inept planners & bureaucrats on this one.

No kidding ! It's called"I'm alright Jack,I got mine" and it comes out of the mouths of both the Left and the Right.

Sometimes it's a real pain in the ass to be a Centrist.

But in the end,we will all get SCREWED OVER just as QUIETLY as the Guest Workers are getting it now.

I thought thats why Herr Kampbell closed down the Legislature for the fall.

So he could hold Octoberfest and gambling there instead.You know ,make some real money for the province .

To rob Peter/US, to pay Paul/Guest Workers...

Grumpy:

San Fran cable cars LRT example sprung to mind as a well -known example and how things could be integrated, ie LRT, existing vehicular traffic, at grade, one could literally jump off and walk directly to ones destination.... very user friendly.

Elevated rapid transit in my view and for many reasons is less user -friendly, certainly not as business -friendly.

However, some of the above blogs perhaps allude to another interesting " future shock " perspective. The densification may actually BACKFIRE. Most residential buildings , via Local Gov't bylaws, require at least one vehicular parking spot per residential unit. In my view I would perceive that the purchasers of high -rise apartments in the densification premise as also of the means and desires to purchase a vehicle...and thus fill their alotted parking spot.

If one densifies, one simply encourages more and more people and hence more and more cars in the same NOW -REdeveloped area that was once far less densified. This ultimately leads to greater congestion and gridlock.

There may be the original "curb appeal" to purchase near a RAV/Translink route...but I think the local car lots will see an increase in business.

In addition, many of these units are also purchased for investment and often sit empty.....thus provide little or no ridership.

Its always been my own pet conspiracy theory that the powers that be want to create as much gridlock as possible so as to literally force the public to use transit.

However, I also feel people will continue to rebel and choose the personal freedom that cars and other vehicles symbolize, non -withstanding the fact they(vehicles) are a far more practical means to fulfill the duties and obligations etc. of most concerned in the ever increasingly time -limited time- sensitive day.

The GVRD mafia, in typical draconian fashion, will simply increase the transit related levy on all property owners.., even hi-rises , to fund this transit white elephant.

I am also waiting with baited breath to see if they do what some other jurisdictions have done...ie tax/levy vehicles entering the given city core.

Again , I think the whole thing is doomed to fail and be one big white elephant, via it will not meet its projections. Even worse,...more a sign of other future "future shock " agendas regarding the decision makers and how detached they are from reality and truly disconnected from the public they allegedly serve...

The evidence they actually serve us and our best interests is increasingly UNDERwhelming.

It was the labour movement that spearheaded the anti-Chinese xenophobia in the early parts of the 20th century, on the pretext that they were taking jobs from white workers. So the labour movement being up in arms against foreign workers again is no surprise.

Somebody mentioned the Iwo Jima flag-raising. I saw a brilliantly simplistic stencil of that image spraypainted in bright red on a public building not long ago - the troops in that iconic pose...hoisting the Golden Arches. It was such a simple parody, but conveyed whole volumes of critique (contemporary and historical) in the split second it took to glance at it.

I like to photograph street art, but am seldom impressed when it's overtly political (the messages always seem transient a year or two later, and are usually dumbed down versions of canned "anarchist" poseur bromides)...but this was pretty clever in an AdBusters kinda way. It probably took them under eight seconds to get that image up there.

Here's the United News propoganda clip covering the original hosting, if anyone's interested in vintage efforts at mass suasion: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-634212782694418867

Martin:
I think your summation of that situation is overly simplistic. I'll get some information for you when I have a chance.

typical pro-union blathershite from the tyee. pump it up lefty clones!

maestro,

As an area densifies, more transit options become viable. People are able to travel less by automobile than in a low density area. For example, in dowtown Vancouver, the vast majority of people do not use their cars to get to work. In Langley, if memory serves, more than 95% of residents travel to work by car. So by densifying, you are in fact encouraging fewer cars, not more.

The worst traffic congestion is usually in low density areas where the automobile is the only way to get around.

In other words, Elliot, unions are bad, but business associations and conglomerations are good ? How about the Boards of Trade, the Boards of Commerce, the Bilderbergers, the Trilaterals, the WEF, the WTO, the IMF, the NAFTA, etc. etc. ad nauseum, all negotiated and organized the ensure the profitability of the corporate mafia, who can walk over anybody, as long as it makes a profit.

By the way, I've never been a unionist, only a solid and committed private enterpriser and business owner most of my life, but I wouldn't be seen dead in any of the above mafiosi gangs.

And what would you do if you didn't have the word "leftie" to repeat constantly as a form of argumentative point making ? Is it supposed to scare people and to hide in the bushes in shame ?

Ed Deak.

As usual Elliot,you wore out your vocabulary in the first phrase.I am really disappointed in you,you were doing so well ,I was hoping you would finally last a whole sentence one of these days.

I have seen you do it when we talk about HOCKEY!

C'mon Elliot,see if you can get a whole sentence together to insult those you cannot understand.

We're waiting.

Pretty bad mock German...."hier" means "here" and has nothing to do with "Herr", which presumably is what was meant.

Martin:
Attempts to utilize low cost offshore labour has certainly got a history in BC. Was this a 'racist' thing though, or was opposition to Chinese workers primarily because they were low cost?

I think you'll find that mixed race workers, Aboriginals, blacks and others in BC were paid at the same rate as whites – which makes the nominal ‘racist’ terminology a little inappropriate.

Chinese workers would work for less and were often brought in by organizers working for the bosses.

Does that make the reaction to an attack on their jobs (as in the case of strikes against the Dunsmuirs) racist?

I'm not so sure about that.

The fact that workers have a job and a livelihood to protect is the inherent truth about these kinds of actions - then and now.

Not to say there wasn't racism around at the time - but it wasn't the prime factor - any more than it is now in my view.

We all hear about how Chinese paid off their head taxes by loans from the Chinese contractors who had brought them in. I wonder, what sort of interest rates were they having to pay? Because no one can tell me that a snakehead labour contractor is going to have loaned that money for free (same as today, although the various immigration fees and "investor immigrant" investments are not considered "racist").

You'd think SUCCESS and other Chinese poltical groups would be all over this RAV wage issue, since the same situation applies: a Canadian company (well, Onderdonk wasn't Canadian, OK) hires offshore workers because onshore workers are too expensive, and they just happen to be from a different ethnic/racial group. But of course the RAV line is being built to Richmond and will benefit SUCCESS' members, right? Funny thing about double-standards, huh? Of course, from their perspective Costa Ricans are "white" labour. Still, SUCCESS' silence on this issue considering all the hoo-hah about railway labour and the Head Tax seems more than a bit hypocritical, doncha think?

Yup! Sure does.

Of course consider we don't have laws concerning the importation of capital from investors and/or immigrants whose wealth was made from commercial activities that are not legal in Canada. e.g. child labour, various sweatshop atrocities and low wages/standards of living, environmental standards, and so on. This is called the "level playing field" and why it's easier for someone who made money in places where that's all fine and dandy to buy houses than it is for people from here, who can't indulge in similar business practices. Sure, they do great here, often enough, from scratch like everyone else; but I'm speaking about the big money who made this an exurb-colony on the nearest North American shore to Asia.

People are waking up to how much of the real estate and other retail and service market in BC is connected to home-grown drug money (so to speak); what they should also remember is that the condo boom is fueled by money earned by similarly illegal means, if they were committed here. And yes, as anywhere, by international drug money (who are as big investors as anybody else with a lot of dough; money ultimately doesn't have a country, and in a wide sense it doesn't have a lot to do with law either; law has been an attempt to bring it under control, as well as of course to make a tidy living while doing so....).

Equivocation? Perhaps. I guess non-Asians can and do conduct similarly offshore-illegal businesses - not just Nike but small operators of any kind - but as far as I know the conduct of Canadians overseas in commerce is connected to legalities here. Money has no colour, no country, and no morals as well all know, and he who has gets and all that; but it's a sober reminder that the boom in the incoming economy here in recent times isn't all that innocuous as it seems. Sure, we're built on drug money. We're also built on slave labour money. Think about it.

The Costa Rican thing is really, in parallel economic terms, just importing foreign labour/wage standards here as you can't import completely-built tunnels. Hard things to outsource, never mind the shipping costs....

"If one densifies, one simply encourages more and more people and hence more and more cars in the same NOW -REdeveloped area that was once far less densified. This ultimately leads to greater congestion and gridlock."

Wow. Just wow. I have never read a more thorough mis-understanding of urban planning, densification, and transportion issues.

Un-freakin'-believable Maestro. Did you make that up or get it from somewhere? If the latter please cite the source, I'd love to read it.

Jimmy Laroux:

Re your points...well yes and no.

However..... lets look at the bigger picture. As any realtor will tell you, they are not making any more land. City/Local Gov't planning and zoning designates various land uses. None of them are set in stone.

Most parties will claim that a good balance of residential and non- residential uses (ie industrial and commercial) keeps the tax base more diversified and also supposedly requires less commuterism ie jobs also provided WITHIN the given community.

However, if Local Gov'ts, like Vancouver, continually rezone land that was NON residential (ie comercial and industrial)into residential,they have effectively displaced an employer, have they not? ... and hence the current jobs or any future jobs.

As I have stated before, Local Gov't charge Development Cost Charges(DCC's) for each and every new living unit created. Keep this in mind. Its a huge Ca$$$H Cow, thousands of dollars for every apt/condo built.

Status quo?... or the major temptation of DCC's and more property taxes via higher and better use created. 1-2 story building employing 50 people, or 50 story hi-rise...see the temptation for Local Gov'ts?

If you rezone say an acre of land that had a machine shop, or small commercial strip,etc. and put up a 300 + unit Hi - Rise rise...I doubt that the original job displacement is rectified locally, and I have serious doubts that enough jobs are available locally for the new residents.

I think that GVRD cities are into densification competitions amongst themselves worse than trying to acquire casinos...they want all the associated money ie DCC's, future taxes, nive growth stats, etc etc. and if THEY don't ...OTHERS will in Catch 22 fashion.

Also one other thing to keep in mind is the more citizens per jurisdiction = more voters = the greater political power in the provincial and federal scheme of things...

Richmond is also in the midst of a massive transformation. The large light industrial/commercial district WEST of #3RD and NORTH of Westminster Highway which total about 600 acres (ironically an ex Brighouse FARM re-developed by the City)and established in the 1960's has a new OCP which will densify with more residential hi rises, and displace more jobs, and again a DCC Ca$$$h Cow. Coincidentally, this area is immediately adjacent to the RAV line. Property values in this area are the highest in Richmond...the taxes will rise, one can see commercial/industrial landlords etc. cashing out.

Given "no more jobs for life",hence unpredictable futures and careers,and cloudy crystal balls, the GVRD and it's member Local Gov'ts will promote this bullshite of public transit etc will promote less gridlock, or people will work locally ,which I feel is very contradictory and conflicting logic, given what I have outlined.

YVR is a major employer, and years ago its employees and those of associated companies ie airlines etc lived in nearby Richmond, Vancouver etc, but current and future YVR employees likely commute greater distances to work at YVR, due to the affordability factor.

Their (GVRD)model is decades out of date, and they have also played the cards differently. It's an ever- evolving joke- sequel, but always read between the lines when their lips are moving.

Stump:

Which hat are YOU talking through ?

I have worked as an involved Pro-Active citizen with various City Planners (even the top ones) and elected officals. I have been involved on OCP drafts and smaller planning initiatives ,attending countless meetings.

Sorry dude, while one often goes in with the old "idealism" MEETS give them the benefit of the doubt..." they are the experts and they work for us ", but the GENERAL Public has no idea of the bullshite and various agendas that go on behind the scenes which includes incompetence and serious lack of vision.

Once bitten twice shy...but invaluable learning experience that 99 % of the general public never sees. That allows you to read between the lines and follow the money -blood trail now and in the future.

YOUR experiences Stump ??? , SVP...or are ya talking through yer hat like many TYEE bloggers seem to ???.

This issue of globalization and the importation of offshore corporations with their own "guest workers", in place of the use of homegrown economic assets including labour, is not the simplistic and facile issue of "racism", in either the past or the present, that the apologists for Big Capital seek to represent it.

If one cannot see that "homegrown" labour will naturally tend to view such as, what they are in fact, threats and actions by global economic interests to undermine "home" wages and working conditions, and to break the essential organizations of the working-class, then one either has their head where the sun doesn't shine, or as in the case of "the Neocon-right" they are merely acting as ruling class interest apologists. These kinds of "contracts" between domestic and foreign "state" and "private capital interests", behind the facade of "cost rationalization" are the same essential arguments used by the same set of ruling class interests to use "scabs" to break workers strikes and to de-unionize or prevent the unionization of this or that operation of workers.

It is the classic tactic of "divide and rule" carried to a whole new level and arena such as have been used against working people since the beginning of capitalism. And while elements of racism can and do creep into such struggles and situtations, that has not been historically and is not now their main feature. The main feature of these struggles against both scabs and such "guest worker" programmes as this, is to defend the jobs, and hard won wages, working conditions and well being of the families of the workers of the "home country".

This notion of a global village, in this context, is still much a load of hooey. It is a village only to those with the huge wads of surplus capital to be able to use the world as such-, as the sandbox in which they manipulate us as their toys. Which is not the way the great majority of us get to see or use the world.

Global corporations and other "state" interests still much use these threats and "labour policies", of scabs and guest-workers as a cudgel with which to beat down the wages and conditions of one group of workers, in this case of the home country, many of whom verge on homelessness and poverty themselves, if they are not already, by the use of another set of equally or even more desparate workers, whether from within or, as in this case, off-shore.

So while, in the mutual desparation of such a situation, as have been there historically as well, racism will tend to raise its ugly head in such struggles, it is really more just another example or form, albeit an especially ugly and complex one, of the very ancient "class struggle" between a privileged ruling class and its wage slave subordinates. It is the "class" coliseum into which the ruling class throw different groups of workers, to watch them tear each other apart, to the former's delight and enrichment.

Scabs are scabs, wherever they come from, and how e'er regrettable their circumstances, who would steal another man or womans job, and the food from the mouths of their family for himself and his own. It is regrettable, but it leaves the home group of workers with no alternative but to resist and fight back, with all the means at his/her disposal.

As an afterthought, raised by my Mrs.

These Olympics were touted to be of benefit to the people of BC. Well such as this tunnel betrayal certainly puts the reality of the lie to that silly nothion. It is really going to only be, as is its real intent anyway, of benefit to ruling class "business" interests, here and offshore.

This is certainly not of benefit to the majority working class of BC. It only serves to undermine their interests.

I didn't ask you what your experience was. I asked you how you came to believe densification means more cars, when almost any research one looks for says the opposite.

You're the one espousing a radical theory. Where did you get it from?

Seems simple, but instead, you're asking me about my experiences. Are you side-stepping the question?

this entire story is based around a non-issue, unless you want to talk about the real problem, which is that the unions are concerned about these 'foreigners' taking their jobs. nothing new there. they were also strong proponents of the japanese internments and the chinese head tax.

And take note here, it is the likes of Elliot and his US Empire Loyalist pals here, who support the betrayal of their own country into the North Amerikan Union, who now here would accuse those workiing people of Canada, of whatever race they may be, with "racism", for defending their country, their communities with ALL its working citizens, their jobs and the well-being of their families. And likewise defend the workers of all other countries in their home quest for decent wages and working conditions-, and power.

It is the measure to which their own thinking is skewed and turned back on themselves and their own country and its citizens. And it is a measure of their own racism and national chauvanism, that they would even attempt to justify using the offshore poor of another country to justify the repression of their own, and its many co-existing racial and national origin groups.

These people here have never been able to think for themselves and their own interests properly thought through and organized, and instead would rule slavishly at the feet of a global ruling class. And they start out from their traitorous positions of loyalty to the foreign US Empire.

They are the true racists, bigots and a class haters of their own fellow countrymen and native land-, again of all its races and national origin groups who make up our modern working class.

Above, instead of our wingnuts' "rule at the feet of", they rather "...worship at the feet of a global ruling class..."

Stump:

What's radical about extrapolating the more basic facts ?

Who is sidestepping...??? Experience/s count for nothing????...No they actually give you an insight into the nature of the beast/s in numerous ways.

As is said, in an example posted above, IF you densify, you by definition accomodate more people. If you build a high rise tower with say 30O units, most Bylaws state a minimum of one parking spot per unit. Example: At grade Parking around GM Place and BC Place is literally gone...replaced by hi -rise Towers.

In Vancouver, reports state that Commercial space , particularly office, is at a premium because most developers are not building much new commercial space, but are instead into building and selling off(ie not renting/leasing) residential units.

Example : 300 units creates a potential for 300 cars , correct???. Multiply that by every other tower created. Now Local Gov'ts could eliminate parking requirements, but then people will likley refuse to purchase these units...which will piss off the developers...hence the parking requirements.

SkyTrain RAV etc has always been a scam, and as with most, if not all scams [especially poorly planned one bereft of public input(redundant)] ....go all the other corrupted visions, ideas , strategies, policies by infectious association , and thus not worth the paper they are written on.

Most of the added density is NOT for low income, but may also in fact be at a median point where people can and will buy a vehicle....it ain't rocket science. Neither is the high likelihood these parking spots will be filled...eventually if not intitally. In some Cities, actual selling/leasing parking spots are a sub group in the real estate market due to DEMAND.

There are far more informed citizens and citizen groups that dissect this issue and lay out the basic flaws in these planning models. The powers that be continually ignore them, and morseo when the reality hits the fan.

The joker in the deck is that many investors snap these new units up, and many leave them empty,thus less cars "currently" , thus this gives the impression less cars due to all those people MUST be using SkyTrain/RAV in default logic. The UNdeniable is the Cash Cow the densification is for Local Gov'ts, likely to cover their asses when the real RAV SkyTain bills come in over time and thus attempt to cushion the blow and lessen taxpayer revolt.

I believe it was Grumpy that gave good objective dissertations on this related topic not long ago re: Transit.

Simply think OUTSIDE the box, dude.

Still bitching about unions, eh?
The issue raised is that anyone working on that project, should get paid an equal amount!
Sounds fair to me!
The problem occurs because the companies are trying to save on wages, by whatever means the can find, (and helped by our dear government)!
We do not see those same firms handing back part of their profits because they managed to get labour cheaper than what the government had anticipated!
Or am I stretching it?
Maybe Gordo knew all along that this would happen?
Maybe he was chuckling that they would help him union busting?

I think you missed the part of the equation where a lot of people buy closer to where they work... and leave the car at home, meaning less vehicles on the road, not more.

No:

Not missing the point, but you are, unfortunately, buying into the propoganda THEY spread.

Unless they, the new residents, are stay -at -home types , and run their busineses out of their homes,in this case, apartments/condos,... I really doubt they will be close to work. Also condos/ apartments may have strata bylaws which may prohibit these non- residential uses.

Given the "no job for life" anymore premise,....which I mentioned previously, people will need to be flexible, hence mobile. When you buy your condo/apt. your job may be close, but odds are the original situation and circumstances will change. The only other stability is provided by seniors who have retired with no commuting concerns.

Spouse was once able to board a bus and be dropped off at front door of work,literally, and faster and cheaper than driving. Boss moved the company to where the numerous transfers would add an hour or two to the already one hour round -trip commute.

Not convenient at all, hence fire up the vehicle in the morning.

As I mentioned, the places that ACTUALLY provide jobs are being displaced via re-zoning and re-development to residential , and will locate elsewhere out of town where its cheaper to re-establish and do business. Not even a Starbucks on every corner can fill the jobs to keep people from commuting to work.

It would be nice if it actually worked, but I doubt it will in the long term.

I think you've taken one situation and are extrapolating it (without much evidence I might add, or you'd be providing more than hearsay) to include more people than it actually does. If those apartments in Yaletown are empty how come the neighbourhood can't meet the demand for schools and daycare?

If everyone wants a car, how come when Bob Rennie decides to market a condo building with car co-op membership included it sells like hotcakes? Why are these people even moving downtown where housing prices are through the roof if they are working in the 'burbs? And if their jobs did move to the suburbs why would they all commute instead of selling the expensive condo for more reasonably (well, by GVRD standards anyway ;-) priced homes close to their jobs?

Your theory isn't addressing any of those questions except to put forth a conspiracy. How positively... Lefty of you :-).

In all seriousness, if your assessment of the situation is realistic where's the data to back it up? I'm willing to be convinced by facts and evidence, if you are wiling to provide it.

sez maestro; but, just a few lines above there's this:

wouldn't the logical thing for 'spouse' to do be find a new job?

If public transit actually was planned in order to meet people's needs these kinds of disconnects wouldn't be such a problem and a car would be the last thing you'd think of relative to one's working day.

European cities do it, have done for decades and longer.

Why not here? Because all of these so-called mega projects are not planned as transit - they are instead created to provide economic stimulus. Just like the economic stimulus of the Katrina rebuilding- billions are spent and the core of New Orleans is still empty. Skytrain was never 'meant' to be a real mode of practical public transit and neither was/is RAV.

So true,these are LEGACY PROJECTS built by simple minded people/groups for their own edification.

Does not matter who starts these follies because whoever is at the end of the project BAPTIZING the project will forever be in the spotlight.

Planning in cities is never done CORRECTLY and it is ONE MISTAKE AFTER ANOTHER.Roads,tracks and people all going NOWHERE FAST.

GET ON A BUS AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.

maestro,

I have no idea what your reply had to do with my first post.

Elliot: I am relatively new to the Tyee but am tired of your bs already. You sound like a "f you, Jack, I'm alright type or you are bitter because you couldn't manage to get a half decent paying job, union or otherwise. Let your comments be worthy of breaking silence or remain silent. Geesh!

The signal to noise ratio varies widely on this site. Elliot is the equivalent of a poorly-tuned radio set playing a loop of Rush Limbaugh-style vitriol most of the time.

Jimmy laroux

Its a huge topic, admittedly.

I grew up very close to what was once a dedicated LRT line which closed down in 1958. It carried rail traffic till the late 1960's, was torn up, and a road instead built along the old rail right- of -way. This old LRT route was once apparently connected to a major integrated LRT system right up the valley. The irony is much of our City's densification is built right along this old LRT route, which also bisected our City in quite a demographically -balanced sense.

Your area of Langley, is as you say, of lower density(I have family out there and drive through it fairly often). However, you won't get a SkyTrain under the current quasi-formula. Unless your Council( I recall Langley is actually divided up into a City and Tonwship)starts a densification process , and literally builds hi-rises, I can't see it(ie SkyTrain) happening out there.

However, if the far cheaper LRT option, at grade, had been the transit model used, I could see this form of transit expanding into the outlying areas. LRT would relieve congestion in many areas, or a cheaper Chevy test trial till demand warranted the Cadillac NON-option we have now.

However, the GVRD Ayatollahs feel that an expensive system that most of the real world has said "NO thanks" to, yet still should be built in a few choice GVRD areas aka more eggs in fewer baskets.

Again, and your point is a good one, you have your own type of congestion in Langley,low densification = greater # vehicles to commute. The bad choice made basically for the forseeable future states " Build the Skytrain and they will come and THEN build hi rises(densification) .....OR build hi rises and THEN they will build skytrain" ...a CATCH 22.

LRT would have been cheaper, less eggs in one basket, and benefitted more, and I think Langley and other outlying areas are SOL re: Rapid Transit for the forseeable future.

The entire thing was an expeditious political/politicized decision and that has its own thesaurus of what is synonymous to it and what isn't.

Finally, in my view, these issues often play us like fools/pawns/ suckers...this Public Transit issue is motherhooded, into an either/or propoganda wedge many of the General Public is forced to choose in "black vs white" terms. If the GVRD hoi polloi "Ayatollahs" claim a Cadillac option is the only and hence non- option...people often buy into this "we must have Rapid Transit " chant at any/all cost , and thus support the "shoved down our throats "option.

Sorry, I am not of the view of the SkyTrain as the only option, I am not into that white elephnt scam, and I 'd rather say NO to it, even if it denies us Rapid Transit in the short term. The cost, in my view, FAR outweighs the benefit.

There are options not pursued and of which the general public had no say, maybe if we forced these GVRD bozos to quit forcing us to write blank cheques... we'd have the best or better system, not this Cadillac to nowhere.

I share your skepticism and price-sensitivity over Skytrain. I agree it's been rammed down our throats. But, I disagree that no system (denying us Rapid Transit) in the short term is preferable. The need for Rapid Transit is immediate. Otherwise we'll be doomed to Falcon-esque solutions that are short-term in the extreme.

If it's Skytrain or nothing, I'll hold my nose and deal with it. Money lost (while regrettable) is better than an environment trashed IMO.

These corporations that are paying the slave labor dollars to build the RAV should be brought up on human rights abuse charges!
The big question now is are we the taxpayer is being charged at union rates and if so who's pocketing the extra 25 dollars?
The second biggest travesty I can see right now is our Sea to Sky highway for the rich! our 2010 Winter Olympics which will only be used for two weeks by the general public then WE pay for x years then the very rich will have a great highway to their privately owned Whistler!(there should have been a referendum on this scam against British Columbia's taxpayers)
Gordon Campbell's six hundred million has blown up to over two billion+ and that doesn't include security, silence?
Where does the cover-up stop, we the taxpayer should be demanding full disclosure! In reality I think the Corporation should be putting up the bill for the 2010 Olympics!
This is all tied into the RAV.

'These corporations that are paying the slave labor dollars to build the RAV should be brought up on human rights abuse charges!' thanks for the verification that you're a moron.

djt; sounds like the truth hurts.
coyote; that's some top notch blather you got going there. all kinds of fresh shite. you into the dandelion wine again?

Do you miss the days of old Elliott? When pirates roamed the seas? Because I'm guessing squawky old parrots like you had a use back then, sitting on the shoulder of a robber and mimicking your owner's catchphrases.

Come to think of it, no real change. Carry on.

thanks stumpy. somebody's gatta call a whacked-out lefty a whacked-out lefty.

Stump ROTFLMAO! Elliot you just don't get it do U.....................

WTF..LOL .... is "ROTFL-MAO"......SVP

Is this typical Leftie Ltd. knee - jerk homage to the ex Chinese Communist leader?

Roll on the floor laughing my ass off.

Nothing left wing about it

G West:

Thanks...

I am looking up the cyber slang more and more...the wonder of the internet.

BC Dude, Coyote and others, you are so right. Elliot, you are so wrong, of course. By the way, E., the heart is on the Left:) You might consider developing one, instead of wasting neural time worshipping Tom D'Aquino, Donner, Trump et al, at the Markeplace Alter. Maestro, although not heartless, you have inadvertently swallowed the Markeplace Dogma, too. Hard not to, for that fraudulent philosophy has been pounded out by universities and the Fraser Instapuke for the last 25 years and it is certainly repeated ad nauseum in the press. Re-read your posts. Then go to a site about Mondragon. See if you can make the connection. At least, read Dilbert. Or best yet, go to work in a large industrial corporation for about 15 years--if the very top brass haven't wrecked it before then. You will discover that Private "enterprise"is much more inefficient than public. And the brats at the top want kingly salaries bigger than most countries' entire economy. For that, These quisling CEOs will consider only projects for that company that will bring in profit within 6 months. Maintenance goes 'bye-bye. Quality drops. They don't care about the customers, either. All is arranged for max short-term profit. That the company won't survive long afterwards doesn't concern them. Jobs lost? Investments rubbed out? They could care less in the Caymans. So we MUST have more public ownership and running of nearly everything--and SOON, before these runaway greedy, myopic thugs ruin us all--and the planet!

Amen Marysue!

Marysue:

I am sure your heart is in the right place, but please do not presume what dogma I swallow.

Those that claim they have one often have a disconnect to other vital organs.