I wonder how much discussion there was about how to sell this to the people. Because this is an elite project and they know that the citizens of the three countries would reject unification or integration. So it's being done by stealth. And the Canadian elite have totally bought into the continentalist vision and are pursuing it whether we like it or not. So much for our so-called democracy.

Simply put, "pretty smart people" can be read as unelected, secretive lobbyists.

Message for BC Mary

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2006/04/p06_0449.htm

"Nothing sinister about the secrecy," Michael Byers says.

Hurtig says the meeting is, "...the worst kind of bureaucratic fascism I've seen in Canada during my lifetime," and that the meeting is really part of a little known program to unite Canada, Mexico and the United States. Guess who'd be boss.

So, Mr. Byers, when a top-level bunch of business leaders and elected officials hold a secret meeting, and representatives of the conventioners won't answer reporters' questions about it--not even confirming whether their bosses attended, or not, you don't find anything sinister about it?

My recommendation, then, would be to completely ignore everything Byers writes in the future, because he obviously has a secret agenda--even if it's only to be silly.

Hurtig's right.

Good job, Tom Barrett.

snert: especially when a defeated Liberal candidate (Emerson)can be put into the ranks of the Tory inner cabinet by corporate decree, blind-siding the electoral process?

Why is the author wasting time quoting this tripe?

According to Wikipedia, Mr. Hurtig was born in 1932. Surely there has been worse so-called bureaucratic fascism in his lifetime! Say ... Mussolini and Hitler's governments?

Even without the historic examples, where are the brownshirts -- that is, a violent populist movement -- that defines fascism as a mass movement from the right? The article above argues that the populist right in the USA is isolationist right now, and the populist left in Canada feels the same way.

If the author took Hurtig's statement out of context, it would certainly clarify his point to add what he was actually referring to. Leaving the quote as it is makes Hurtig seem more looney tunes than (perhaps) he deserves.

Ummm, Mussolini and/or Hitler were never the leaders of a Canadian gov't

Truman
I didn't have the same take on the Byers quotes as you did. I thought he was saying that there is nothing really new here.
The information has been available but unpublicised for a while.

I have to agree with him. FTA was treated in the same way until David Orchard's group
made it an election issue. The same policy of sneaking in things the public would not like was called benign neglect.

I dunno, you guys. Hurtig may have been employing a bit of hyperbole, but think about it. Top-level secret meeetings with the agenda of discussing, possibly formulating the future sovereignty of our country--and not even accessible to media enquiry.

So the citzenry don't deserve to know what going on, then?

I think, give your heads a shake.

Under what legal provisions are such meetings to be considered 'classified?'

This is sinister stuff.

I would consider any meeting of elite businessmen and certain governement leaders, whether currently in office or not, that is not commented on publicly when asked, very sinister indeed. I, for one, do not relish the idea of being under ANY kind of US control which is exactly how it would end up. As far as I am concerned foriegn hands are already in way too many Canadian pies. Perhaps a North American Security perimeter would be easier to maintain and make travel between the countires easier etc, etc, but this would only be the beginning...as much as I like the John Lennon ideal ,,, it is a mistake to buy into a capitalist version of it.

Hurtig said Bureaucratic Fascism....as opposed to the Military or Legislative type. They don't want war with us and they know we'd never vote continental integration in....so they write Agreements and then the bureacracy writes the regulations. Look at the
NAFI site below.

That the Deciders all got together in pleasant circumstances, at our expense to discuss the means and timing of our control is just none of our concern.

http://www.fina-nafi.org/eng/fina/presentation.asp?count=eng

Rome will crumble again. All of the deceit and greed will catch up to us and the consequences this time include survival of the species. The instinct we used to have is all but eroded away and only lives on in the few individuals trying to make a difference for the betterment of society. The rest of us are plain and simply complicit. You vote Lib/Con/Dem/Rep you get what you see now. And, they are getting bolder with the lies and deceit and using the MSM to spread their vile. Meanwhile the average Joe nods his head and debates with the TV that Security is a major concern for all citizens. Economy has to be the number one priority. Fish farms don't harm wild stocks. Mmm, that commercial is right , I do need a new BMW SUV, and the biggest lie of all, America wants liberty and freedom for all global citizens. This ship of fools is going down.....

OK OK bureaucratic fascism in Canada ...

But I still think that calling this fascism is an abuse of the term, diluting it until it becomes meaningless in the face of a genuine fascist threat.

What is "bureaucratic fascism"? In my mind this involves desk workers organizing death camps, rather than politicians seeking common futures, collective security and prosperity.

Fascism requires an ethnic populist mass movement with uniformed paramilitaries. This example is nothing of the sort.

I don't see anything problematic about neighbours finding ways to cooperate and develop a common vision for the future. The political costs of creating a single north american political entity are too staggering for any politician in the USA, Canada and Mexico to take seriously. The tone of this article, I think, is paranoid and xenophobic: everybody suspiciously seeking evidence of deep integration efforts will have plenty of fodder here to justify jumping at shadows.

Minister of Defence Gordon O'Connor and Minister of Security and Public Safety Stockwell Day are elected officials doing the public's business day-to-day. Were they doing public business at the secret Banff meeting? Who sent them there, must be Stephen Harper. They certainly wouldn't attend without his permission. They were there planning an attempt to subvert and bypass Canadian laws, to integrate them with other countries - isn't that a form of treason? And what was Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier doing there? Did Stephen Harper order him to go through O'Connor? The head of our armed forces sitting in a secret meeting conspiring with American and Mexican counterparts? WOW! The USA seems to be attempting to take over our country in tiny bites over a period of time, and 911 has given them a reason to make a start with the security integration as a base. Regulations can be changed without people noticing too much and eventually they're altered to where a new law is needed and this too changes overnight, in stealth,at the right time and it's all too late. This hasn't just started, it's been underway for a long time and if the public is not aware and stands up to speak it's goodbye sovereignty, goodbye water and goodbye oil and gas.

According to Mussolini, the true meaning of Fascism...and remember it washis term, he coined it, was Corporatism. The Corporations rule through Government. And that is exactly what is going on here.
Your definition of Fascism involves it's history in Germany, not its essence.

The complaint in both the US and Canada is that the corporations are writing the legislation. Well, that has often been true in the past, but now the pretense is gone.

Don`tsee any problem here. It obviously wasn`t a "secret" meeting. Look at all the people that knew of it.

Only see this as annoying the Mel Hurtig, Maude Barlow and David Orchard types.

Anything that gets their collective noses in a snit is all right with me! Tee Hee.

Just wait until the tanks roll across 'our' border sometime in the future when this corporatist move fails!

And people scoff when Quebec (some) want Soverighnty Association!

Message to gasworks: many thanks ... very encouraging that so many have reported in on that item. It's posted, with comments, on http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/

As for Banff, it was Rick Hillier's presence at that secret, subversive meeting -- even more than Stockboy Day's -- that seemed out of line.

Exalted though the Chief of Defense Staff may be, on his own turf, it is incredibly important for the nation to ensure that the armed forces take their final orders from the civilian, elected authority.

In no damn way, should Hillier get the notion into his head that he's The One who can align Canada with Donald Rumsfeld's marauding armed forces.

Hillier, in a recent CBC interview, insulted the Canadian population by comparing us to airheads who expect Afghanistan to wrap up "within an hour, just like on TV ..."

He's due for a date out behind the woodshed, in my view.

About the tanks rolling across the border...Martin signed an agreement that allows US troops to come across and northward for 400 miles if the US has security concerns...without notification.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=HAL20061002&articleId=3363

Minister of Defence Gordon O'Connor and Minister of Security and Public Safety Stockwell Day are elected officials doing the public's business day-to-day. Were they doing public business at the secret Banff meeting? Who sent them there, must be Stephen Harper. They certainly wouldn't attend without his permission.

Since public officials were there on our dime the transcripts of the discussions should be available through freedom of information. Democracy cannot thrive under a cloak of secrecy.

Stockwell's Day's office obviously believes he must be a royal prince and not answerable to the lowly plebes.

Private talks with highly placed officials from a foreign government together with groups who financially support Mr Day's party is of course going to breed suspicion.

Since Mr Day is fond of the view where if you have nothing to hide you won't mind us watching you he should set an example and not make his discussions, when acting as a Cdn minister, secret.

I took another look since your comment about Byers, Nana. But doesn't it seem that Barret has presented Byers as downplaying any concern about the secretive aspect of the meeting?

Even if the meeting was public information, I think the fact that there's been no full disclosure of the contents and press releases, suggests that the public has been purposefully kept out of the loop regarding exactly what's going on in our behalf.

I think Frank's comment above makes the point regarding secrecy that I would have liked Byers to make, instead of reassuring that it's not a big deal.

And isn't that the point about secrecy that you've been making, too, Nana?

Smacks of Bilderberger, Ottawa, to me.

The net is full of all kinds of stuff on North American integration.

http://geo.international.gc.ca/can-am/main/front_page/security_prosperity-en.asp

I didn't say it wasn't stealthful in terms of publicity, but it is an ongoing project.
The Banff meeting just continues and enlarges what has gone before.

Maybe the campaign for the new Liberal leader would be a good forum to start discussion about the Security and Prosperity initiative , and it would be interesting to see which one of them, or if any of them, approve of the purpose of the meetings. More could be revealed about each one than rehashing all the tired old points that enable them to appear neutral or middle-path.

That Harper sent his reps tells us all about where he stands, and remember that Paul Martin was in at the beginning too. The NDP have been trying to get to the bottom of it in the House but aren't getting anywhere. Don't know about the BQ.

The Globe had a tiny piece after the meeting, just that it took place, but most of us would never have known the details were it not for the little Banff Crag Canyon newspaper. Hats off to the brave waiter/cleaner/whoever that managed to sneak a copy of the agenda and gave it to the Banff editor.

As to the Bilderbergers....Banff is part of what Bilderburgers decided long ago about trading blocks.

Listen, I hate this and I think Byers does too. It's hard to get excited about a manifestation of what one has been aware of for a very long time. People thought I was out in left field with the FTA.

Shelley Ann Clark, a veteran bureaucrat with top clearance saw the documents calling for continental integration during the negotiations for the FTA and blew the whistle, but got no publicity and was dismissed a kook. That's almost 20 years ago.

That's a good point Nana. The media always play down this stuff and then one day they'll tell us why are we complaining, its been going on for umpteen years and we all knew about it.

Nana, I'm fairly knowledgeable about what's going on, but you're miles ahead of me, and I think the average Canadian has hardly a clue that we're quietly being sleazed into the American republic, so if Byers says not to worry about the secrecy, I think it's an unfortunate message from him, and I DO worry about his agenda.

We should have had media interviews, news releases and front page stories in all the mainstream papers.

It's no big news to you and Byers, Nana, because you dig down deep and know what to look for and what it means. But unless it's in the papers, most Canadians don't realize that it's happening.

"The motive for U.S. participation, according to Mr. Hurtig, was "to gain access and control Canada's extensive natural resources, including oil and water."

"Documents obtained by researchers associated with the Council of Canadians were marked "Internal Document, Not for Public Release." At least three current Ministers of Stephen Harper's Conservative Party minority government are cited in the Document as "ring leaders" so-to-speak, of an unlawful and anti-constitutional effort to hand Canada to the Bush regime.

"Canadian constitutional and related law is quite clear that any such effort by elected members of a government to subvert the political authority of the Government of Canada, constitutes breach of a Parliamentary Allegiance of Office, and broadly treason.

This is because the reportedly directed efforts of Ministers in the Stephen Harper government, to hand over Canada to the political authority of Mr. Bush, as the American Head of State, without the consent of the diverse Canadian public, can only be executed by the seditious overthrowing of the Crown, i.e. Canadian Head of State.

Section 128 of the Constitution Act, 1867 indicates as follows: Every member of the Senate and the House of Commons of Canada shall before taking his Seat therein take and subscribe before the Governor General or some Person authorized by him, and every Member of a Legislative Council or Legislative Assembly of any Province shall before the Lieutenant Governor of the Province or some Person authorized by him, the Oath of Allegiance contained in the Fifth Schedule to this Act; ....

The power of dealing with treason is inherent in the Parliament of every country.

The leaked document clearly substantiates that Ministers of the Stephen Harper Government are sharing information with representatives of the U.S. military-industrial-complex, for the purposes of "surrendering" Canada to a U.S.-based "non-democratic authority". This apparent government-sponsored effort is designed to destroy the sovereign authority of Canadians as co-owners of their society, in violation of all Canadian Constitutional Acts since 1867.

Pursuant to Section 46 (2) of the Canadian Criminal Codes "Every one commits treason in Canada, when someone (b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;"

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2006/10/11/01243.html

That definition is incorrect in the case of Italian Fascism. While Mussolini did promote the concept of "corporativismo" as a core of Fascism the meaning was not related to our concept of Corporations. A corporation in the Italian Fascist sense was a organisation of all parties concerned with a particular field, I believe there were 22 Corporazioni, with membership theoretically representing all stake holders from labour, management and government. To equate the modern idea of a Corporation to the Italian Fasicst concept of "corporativismo" is factually incorrect as the meanings are distinct.

Truman
You're right...we should have had some open discussion about this, but who's going to tell us when the last thing the the hyenas who govern us want is an informed electorate.

lynn good article, good site. thanks.

The treason continues. Harper is taking us to hell faster, but we boarded the train with Mulroney. Part of the increased speed to complete integration is thanks to the net, we're waking up. I don't think they dare wait until 2010 as was planned,

This is all about natural resources, energy and water. Period. Security is the cover story.

Gerhardius,

I'd alays wondered about that Mousolini quote. In those days the "corporation" in todays sense didn't really exist.

It's sad but what Mousolini said is now actually true in todays context of the corporation, even if that's not what he meant.

It seems that today it might be more accurate to describe our mutual descent as one into a neo-volksgemeinschaft.

Canada will surely one day go American just as the NHL did many years ago. Who knows, if the peckerheads thinking of making Banff the capital of continental America hurry they can appoint Gary Bettman Grand Commissioner.

Secrecy breeds tyranny. It's one of the hallmarks of a tyrant, that he must work in the shadows, to avoid the wrath of his victims.

Anyone remember which thread that Cicero quote about treason was on? It seems like it might be appropriate to repost it here.

Hey, Gwest - Another man in uniform says what the elected civilian leadership dare not:

'Time to Leave Iraq': British Chief of the General Staff
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6046332.stm

It is obvious that the mainstream press will do nothing to inform the public of what the multinationals are financing ie. US, Mexico Canada integration. They want the control of resources out of public/government hands.
Is it time for a guerilla media campaign? Ordinary people could make up signs that inform the public of the Harper governments treason and hang these messages from light poles, overpasses, newsboxes and friggin mountain tops. We are being sold down the river by greedy billionaires and their bought and paid for minions, who lie through their stinking teeth for avarice.

I would have been nice if due credits had been given to vivelecanada.ca who first picked up that important story while Rafe was ranting over Iggy and Quebec couple weeks ago.

Now do we get mainstream medias to pick up on this???

who fukkin cares.

..thanks for the reminder, Bailey...here's that Cicero quote you were looking for:

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear". Cicero

BC lesson #1:
History has shown one can't trust someone with the last name Barrett.

BC Lesson #2
"N" and " T.G " will somehow convince others with a cornucopia of links going all the way back to Adam and Eve that this "secret meeting" was to arrange another conspiracy like the 9/11 WTC aka "it wasn't the planes".

Probably also think the last plane that hit a tall building in New York this week has links to Dubya and Haliburton...instead of simply Steinbrenner. (How come the thermite didn't go off this time ???)

Doesn't sound like they did a lot of worrying about security. The emphasis seems to be on economic integration.

I imagine Rumsfeld's speech could be summed up as, "We can do this the easy way, or the hard way. And by the way, we have plenty of empty cells in Guantanamo Bay"

Of all the dumb moves. I can't believe they would be so foolish as to put it in writing. Can you think of anything that would stir opposition to NAU and SPP faster than fiddling with Quebec and language?

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2006/09/26/01230.html

Anti-Quebec Assimilation plot at Banff uncovered

Bloc Quebecois cooperates with an Anglo-American axis

by Jean-Pierre Trudeau

The Council of Canadians reports a "Who's who" of senior Liberals associated with the former Paul Martin government (including two former Deputy Prime Ministers), and senior Conservatives in the current Prime Minister Stephen Harper minority government, that are part of a traitorous oversight committee. This committee is cooperating with U.S. counterparts in order to assimilate a francophone Quebec and "phase out" Canada in general, in favour of American elite control of the whole of North America.

Quebec is on its way to losing its French language, civil law code, and other rights. Sounds unthinkable, doesn't it? Think again. Apparently, then Prime Minister Martin, signed away the constitutional rights of Quebec, and other Canadians in a pact with U.S. President George Bush in Texas. This pact is called the "Security and Prosperity Partnership" (SPP), which has now been further consolidated in Banff, Alberta in mid-September 2006.

'Vive le Canada' reports on a new Banff "North American Manifesto" witnessed by a listed "Who's who" of U.S. representatives of the political-military-industrial complex, and Canadian/Quebec traitors.

Sorry, I messed up on quote marks and neglected to say the article continues.

Yet the "free flow" of capital between our countries, capital which has no allegiance to countries or community except insofar as those countries and communities enhance its "free flow", increases. And the very real fall out is experienced by greater #s of people across the country (even in AB). The U.S.'s concerns about national security will, in this environment yet, ultimately be subverted by built in, assumed need for growth.

It's hardly a non-story, Brain. You went on for sometime adding to Barrett's story. Were you just being cynical?

No doubt. Stocky and Hillier are welcome to their private lives but not when attending a forum on international integration. This is the problem. In general, it's accepted that "business talk" is private and government (i.e., general public) should stay out of it. That's bullshit. Since when, in a democracy, should any agreement that affects more than just those shaking hands be of merely private concern. Since when is our entire economic system of concern only to the self-appointed deal-makers? Utter shit. Yet this is widely accepted wisdom as long as the flies don't alight on my brother's corpse.

Hurtig's comments were better contextualized and clarified for you by posters above but I'd also like to add that such things (your idea of fascism) approach from a distance and find comfort and welcome in the minds of important men and the public over time. True colours come out when the power imbalance is more obvious and victory is more sure.

Neighbours is a friendly word but I guess it all depends on what the neighbours are up to and how other neighours will be affected.

well put, Nana.

An interesting article. I wonder if Barrett ran out of time or ran into too many walls or both, but more on this cabal would be appreciated.

It really concerns me that the future of Canada is being significantly shaped by a right wing, christian fundamentalist, former backhoe operator from Penticton, who refuses to discuss the deep integration issue with those who pay his wages.
How in the world did these traitors get elected? Stephen Harper headed the National Citizens Coalition whose mission was to eradicate the Canadian public medical system. He then runs for prime minister on a platform to protect medicare, and people believe him?
There's a sucker born every minute.

Yeah, the concept of critical thinking seems to be lacking in this country!

Truman Green is right; this is sinister stuff.

But the indicators are emerging nonetheless, that the conclusive betrayal of the Canadian nation, for which one can make the argument of "treason", is now being decided precisely behind these kinds of closed doors. Dangerous stuff.

And the fact of the North Amerikan Union, to my knowledge, broke first on the web site Vive le Canada, followed thereafter here on Tyee, in these very comment threads. So, despite an apparent conspiracy of Big Corporate Media and major boardroom and "official" silence, the news IS slowly leaking out to we of the Great Unwashed nonetheless. And as it becomes more widely known, destined to have a major impact on public thinking, in my view.

For I cannot think that the average Canadian, despite all their apparent disconnect from the inadequate and anti-democratic political processes of current Conservative Capitalism, are yet ready to ignore the case for the treasonous betrayal of their country to the US Empire. That is unthinkable.

And by way of a small bit of "radical leftist" prophecy, our US Empire Loyalists, looking into the crystal ball of the future, I will predict that as this knowledge of the nations betrayal becomes more widespread, it will begin a process of changing the politics and mass political loyalties of this country-, at least such as has not been seen for a very long time. Even for Canadians, underestimate the power of "nationalism", once unleashed, at your own peril. And for which our US Empire Loyalists, here on Tyee and in Ottawa, are destined to be called to account.

And which for me and "my kind", with our view of the world, this issue alone has the potential to be the launching point for the creation of an opportunity to more truly democratize Canadian society, through and including into the economy and its secretive and exclusive boardrooms, and transform it into something quite new, and possibly not even seen before.

I have told you neoconservatives here before that it was not ourselves, but you who were preparing the way for us and the emergence of a quite new politics within both capitalism and the country. Your betrayal of the country to the US Empire is destined to be the decisive bit of spadework contributing to this.

For which, though the danger, or the risk is great, I nonetheless thank you. :-) You are handing such as us, and the different kind of reinvented "left" we represent, an opportunity-, assuming of course, that we are able to see it and seize the initiative it offers us.

It's idealistic and makes perfect sense, it is a blueprint, or a path to follow. But... it assumes that society will grasp the issues and see the dangers and be able to filter the media slants and disinformation. I see chaos as an even up bet. The road to harmony or a chance to interpret sustainability is the right way to go. But that interferes with economic progess and individual and corporate greed. We need ELE to come to the rescue. An extintion level event! Hmmm say the planet starts to heat up and melt the ice caps, or we start running out of fish or arable land to grow food... While unlikely, surely a semi educated populace would stand up and notice any signs of these events staring them down?

There seems to be as much angst over the border about the SPP as here which is nothing but good news. Try World Net Daily for right-winger Jerome Corsi on the potential "shadow government".

By the way, Truman Green, you had too narrow a focus on Michael Byers and misinterpreted him.

"N" and " T.G " will somehow convince others with a cornucopia of links going all the way back to Adam and Eve that this "secret meeting" was to arrange another conspiracy like the 9/11 WTC aka "it wasn't the planes".

Probably also think the last plane that hit a tall building in New York this week has links to Dubya and Haliburton...instead of simply Steinbrenner. (How come the thermite didn't go off this time ???)

Actually maestro, I was agog that the builing didn't come down what with all that fuel being spilt and the fires. ;-)

aorangi says: "By the way, Truman Green, you had too narrrow a focus on Michael Byers and misinterpreted him."

Well, aorangi, before going directly to Byer's quoted comments lets start here. How do you interpret this:

Barrett's words: "Byers, who holds the Canada Research Chair in Global Politics and International Law at UBC said he doesn't see anything particularly sinister in the secrecy surrounding the Banff meeting."

If I object to Byer's response it's because I see EVERYTHING sinister about the secrecy.

Let's keep in mind that Barrett reported that: "Forum spokesman John Larsen would not confirm or deny that Rumsfeld or anyone else was in attendance."

And Byers has no problem with this? The American Defense Secretary comes to Canada to hold SECRET meetings with government and industry leaders and Byers sees nothing sinister.

And so I worry about Byer's agenda.

Still hanging onto that "lone gunman" theory eh? The last congressional hearing determined that was bunk, and had to admit that a second gunman was likely? Or was it certain, sorry I don't remember the exact wording. Most of the original crime investigation was botched as was 911. What's the truth? Only God knows when both sides start their own spin and set conspiracy theories in motion. As I've said before Chaos. Unless you see it happen or there is credible evidence it's all speculation. You can generally trust the sports section. Vancouver 3 Calgary 1, while unlikely, it's still verifiable by witnesses who were present at the event. This evidence usually supports the media's version. But that's where it ends. You get a snap shot every hour 24/7/365 on the war on terror now, as if to remind you why we had to go to war. God forbid you would take a few days to try and form your own opinion. That's why the reminder every hour. The answers are so simple that nearly everyone misses the point. The US and it's western allies would like to continue world energy and military dominance for as long as possibly sustainable. Yet some would have you believe these are complex issues with complex solutions and there are those that insure that is the desired outcome..... chaos. They will continue this path until the empire crumbles, as all before them including Rome. We are all complicit, although I'd give Chomsky a free ticket out for his work. Suzuki too of course, good Canadian kid that he is!!

Byer's "not to worry," continued.

Aorangi, here's some more Byers:

"Global citizenship empowers individual human beings to participate in decisions concerning their lives, including the political, economic, social, cultural and environmental conditions in which he lives."

From Byers, "Are You A Global Citizen," Tyee, Oct 5, 2005.

Is it too radical for me to suggest that the secrecy in which the convention was shrouded might tend to diminish the kind of citizen participation which Byers apparently cherishes?

Amen, brother.

And I ain't saying you are wrong. :-) Unfortunately, you just may be right.

Watch yer top knot!

re: an ELE- Apparently not: Rona Ambrose has said that the 17 remaining spotted owls aren't in any danger... Reminds me of Alfred E. Newman- "What, me worry?" Or better still, that Supertramp album cover: "Crisis? What Crisis?"

KitsCommuter

Re UN -agog

The building very likely didn't collapse because of different construction...more structrual integrity due to residential building vs open area commercial plan..plus TG didn't light the thermite in sync/time

maestro&kitcommuter
Ask yourselves why the evidence was destroyed?
http://rattube.com/blog1/2006/10/12/rudy-dont-take-your-love-to-town-or-the-evidence-911/

Maestro and my 89-year-old tenant's little dog are the only ones who don't know that the wtc buildings were blown up, and that the planes were just a trompe l'oeil, magic trick.

No need to convince me Nana. I'm about 90% sure they did not come down in the manner that the current US administration would have us believe. As for my previous post, I was just having a little fun with maestro knowing how convinced he is of the "official" explanation. See my posts in what I believe to be the longest thread in Tyee history.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/09/20/CrazyTalk/

COOPRADIO.ORG: North American Union (NAU) - How to end USA, Canada & Mexico
WHEN: Monday Oct. 16, 2006 at Noon - 1 PM PT
WHERE: COOP RADIO, CFRO 102.7 FM
LISTEN LIVE:http://www.coopradio.org
TOPIC: A special 2 1/2 hour program on the topic of the NORTH AMERICAN UNION. The NAU is the plan initiated March 23, 2005 between the heads of state of the US, Canada, and Mexico to integrate the three countries under a common currency and common governing aparatus.
GUESTS: Connie Fogal, leader of the Canadian Action Party; Mel Hurtig, publisher;
and Steven Yates, U.S. author of the Matrix series of articles.
HOSTS: Alfred Lambremont Webre, Jeff & Diana Jewell, and Don Nordin.
Websites:
CAP: Connie Fogal
http://www.canadianactionparty.ca
Vive Le Canada: Mel Hurtig
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/index.php?topic=melhurtig

T.G.

Now come on...

You seem to be the PEZ dispenser of truth and "N" is the ever - ready refill.

Please try to maintain your gold medal in integrity by admitting your 89 year old tenant's dog has also been sent the numerous e-mail's with the links...and that you have threatened to evict them both if they don't believe you.

What's the tenant's name?
Not some notorious Afghani freedom fighter or should we tell Dubya and Haliburton ?

PS Make sure tenant's suite is insured for thermite...ask Mr. Silverstein about it. Make sure you have plenty of post dated cheques from the tenant just to be on the safe side. Finally, if the suite collapses and the detached garden shed does as well,.....ie like WTC tower #7 , ...you have a conspiracy...correct ? Never leave out the strong possibility that the dog was also a fanatic canine suicide bomber.

Kitscommie

(err Kitscommuter)

I didn't state I was "convinced" of the WTC "official version" ..whatever that " offically" is. It's like this secret meeting TYEE topic....people leap to conclusions that would do the Salem Witch trials proud...

If one goes in with a pre-meditated bias,then it becomes both a combined lack of credibility issue and the often consequential mildly amusing results.

The conspiracy theorists had a so- called "theory" or "theories" , but it's so full of holes and I continually pointed it out...Often dead silence by them or else they search for more links...simply can't get into a more focussed discussion debate.

If they can't make a good case to support THEIR theory...then THEIR theory can't be taken seriously.

Evidence destruction ? Yeah right...the video link already has the "experts" giving conflicting stories. I don't recall ICBC leaving accident scenes intact for months, even the police at crime ie murder scenes tie up their business in a day or two. The WTC crime scene was around for months...and it was not in a remote ROSWELL-IAN area...

The amusing aspects "novelty value" wears off ever more quickly when one realizes some of these TYEE bloggers are basically showing all the indications of a myopic and childish hate-on for the U.S., and use the TYEE topics to lead rest of us us along the same path of " truth and light " that they are convinced they are on .

Sure glad they ain't on jury duty .

Maestro, the official version is that the US armed forces just couldn't seem to catch up with any of the hijacked planes in order for the pilots to observe them visually, which is called for in the assignment protocols for hijacked or seriously off-course planes.

And, as Richard Clarke whined to the Congress, it was just because of incompetence--largely the CIA's, for which CIA director got the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

maestro:

Bureaucrats and diplomats, plus a handful of elected officals who will speak nothing of what was discussed in Banff, even though it is their public duty to do so, met in Banff to discuss the North American integration of currencies, security, intelligence, defence and trade.

While individuals like maestro brush this sort of thing off as "insignifigant" and beyond noting with the public eye, individuals on the other hand who specialize in constitutions, the rule of law, currencies and national debts, political areas of sovereignty and fair trade practices, and finally, perhaps most importantly, the undermining of the entire democratic process that is supposed to discuss any and all of this issues in an open and public manner instead of the clandestine, secretive, closed manner that has occured in Banff... the individuals who are informed and specialize in these same areas as the amateur maestro tries to do, on the other hand, are pushing panick buttons and raising red flags.

I think I'll go with the experts on this one, leaning towards comments such as maestro's as being biasedly flawed and formed out of naivity and ignorance, noting his posts as sub-standard, and largely unfit to read, offering no more substance than that of the example of false perception and brainwashed thinking. In other words, your posts, maestro, are barely worth glazing over.

TG :

You will oh - so - graciously admit that many of my comments and debating points had NO links provided(after myself reading your's and "N"s ad nauseum...) and that the devil's advocate/reducto -ad -absurdum approach I ACTUALLY used did NOT in Venn- diagram fashion exactly overlap with the official version...

I simply looked at your and "N's" theories, looked at the "official versions" and made up my own mind.....

Conclusion :YOU and "N" LOST......of which your case seemed to be nothing more than a propoganda- laden subjective anti U.S prostelytization process.

You and "N" , H-O-W-E-V-E-R were , and still are, blathering on in pseudo- intellectual fashion probably using the "LEFTIE CONSPIRACY VERSION 2006 search engine (cc)" (BTW...the same one since Adam and Eve ) and thus sent an UNofficial invitation to be debated and re-butted by anyone. Also remember evil capitalists invented the technology AND democracy provides the freedom that allow us to do blogger battle. Otherwise we would be all in some quasi- RED square with some of you "comrades" backstabbing each other so you can speak at the podium and bless us with your "or else" propoganda.

Uggh !

Some of you TYEE Lefties(cc) are like a remora attached to the ass end far removed from a/ the brain...except the TYEES world famous pseudo -intellectual "The Brainz " is their own moebius remora/ass, and who is also likely a silicon - based life form existing in an anaerobic environment, ie with a Fine Arts degree or equivalent .

If that very basic and simple point escapes you, then it more than adds more ammo to my devil's advocate debating arsenal.

Didn't you admit to being a carpenter,..... yet talking about steel buildings ??? ) Did you try to Weld Wood,(no evil corporation pun intended) and your more alert and aware comrades had to call the Fire dept.???

The irony and the laughter you and "N" provide are slowly being thermited out of boredom ....or is "N" actually your tenant and you both use the dog's thoughts? ?

C'mon ,....admit it !!!

Maestro
This isn't about Canucks vs Yanks. Americans just had their Constitution and Bill of Rights tossed out by totally compromised legislators, and the same people who managed that are trying to do an end run around our own freedoms. While our attention is diverted by phony arguments about who did what in Lebanon, our country is being destroyed from within by its own bureaucracy and our resources are being alienated from our control forever by agreements we are not allowed to discuss.

It is time for you to take off your clown costume and get serious.

Gee "N"

I guess there is another "N" exactly like you out there...somewhere.

My apologies....and condolenscences

( to BOTH of you).

Sorry, I actually rent out clown costumes to many TYEE bloggers ...and TG hasn't returned their's yet...Good thing he gave me a deposit in U.S. funds. I think he's on a plane for NYC as we speak.

N. B. its time to dig up another link . Your last blog was "110% certified organic" link free.

You were much better on the Rothschild thread, Maestro--at least occasionally dealing seriously with the issues regarding 911.

But if I forgot to thank you for joining in the debate, I'll thank you now, because we got an opportunity to present virtually all of the issues involved--from the fact that none of the names of the hijackers appeared on the passenger lists, (Richard Clarke, anti-terrorism expert, claims he recognized the names on the lists) to whether the American airforce stood down during the hijackings; to nonsense like Thomas Eagar's (of MIT) claim (in which he suspends the laws of physics) that the buildings had no choice but to fall completely vertically into their own footprint because of their size; all of the explanations of FEMA, NIST and the official explanation by Bazant and Zhou, which was published two days after 911; to the mysterious origin of those massive dust clouds and pulverized concrete; to the existence of large amounts of molten steel, although there were no fires of sufficient temperature to melt steel.

We certainly couldn't have presented the issues as well if we didn't have you there disputing and mocking everything we said. You really kept us on our toes.

Your participation was much appreciated.

So thanks, again.

Interesting video on 911 in case it hasn't been posted already.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en

The real issue for me here is that there could very well be a shadow govenment running this country.

One that we do not elect, that is wrong and all Canadians should be asking some hard questions of their MPs right and left!

Maestro, been reading some of your posts and you need help buddy!

Since the conference was about continental security and the enemy is home grown, the polling data below is relevant to the discussion.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469

Polling Data

When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

May 2002 Oct 2006

Telling the truth 21% 16%

Hiding something 65% 53%

Mostly lying 6% 28%

Not sure 6% 3%

Source: The New York Times / CBS News
Methodology: Telephone interviews with 983 American adults, conducted from Oct. 5 to Oct. 8, 2006. Margin of error is 4 per cent.

Looks like not only are more people catching on, but 65% of Americans
had doubts at the beginning.
see also: Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/141006poll.htm

Found this site while doing a search on the secret meeting in Banff.

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/North_American_Forum.htm

maestro, I don't believe you've made a serious effort to consider any of the information provided to you regarding 9/11. So be it. No need to waste further energies on a mind as closed as yours.

Your petty renunciation of those who don't share your narrow minded view of the world is not called for. I appreciate hearing their viewpoints and consider their postings worthy of consideration as much as I do yours. A pity you felt you had to lapse into your own myopic and childish rant in order justify your own self serving conclusions.

ursus
That article is wonderful especially because of the links to more great stuff. Thanks.

You are welcome, I was quite surprised at the content, very interesting what we can find will a quick search eh.

Enjoyed the poll info, I get quite a few newsletters from stock promoters, most are now criticizing bush and company, several have gone so far as to suggest he should be impeached, find it very interesting that this group of people would be turning on a republican president.

When I have the time I intend to read Empire of Debt!

Maestro said:

Actually the Internet is the result of an American Department of Defense initiative. They might be evil, but they're not capitalists, and the costs (since it was a gov't initiative) were probably borne by the taxpayer.

Thanks for playing. Please try again. :-)

Ya know, the real question that the Tyee needs to answer is:

Why are left-wing posters better spellers
than right-wing Internet posters?

Or so it seems to me.

Consider the bureaucrats of the former government. Deptuy Ministers', Assistant Deputy Ministers' Director Generals' and Directors. Consider for moment that these appointees and civil servants were the ones pulling the strings at the behest of the the former government.

John Manley was shuffled to Minister of Foreign Affairs on the eve of the 2000 election. He was widely applauded for his work in foreign affairs, particularly for helping to ease strained Canada-U.S. relations. He was seen as able to communicate with the U.S. administration, and had a good working relationship with both Colin Powell and Tom Ridge. David Rudd, then director of Toronto's Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies said: "Under Manley, the government of Canada talks to Washington, not at it." In January 2002 he was appointed as Deputy Prime Minister and given special responsibility for security in response to 9/11. For his performance in these roles, he was named Time magazine's "Canadian newsmaker of the year" in 2001.

In May 2002 he added Minister of Finance to his responsibilities, thus making him, undisputedly, the most powerful member of the cabinet.wikipidea

Now consider many or most of these appointee's or civil servants maintained their careers in Ottawa after the election. Who better to shape this new North american integration than those who already had the file. It is not difficult to imaginethat these same apparatchiks are working at breakneck speed to reach integrationist goals under the US friendly conservatives.

Finally consider The Independent Task Force on North America was a project organized by the United States Council on Foreign Relations, the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, and the Mexican Council on Foreign Relations. It was chaired by former Canadian politician John Manley and advocates a North American Union, entailing a greater integration between Canada, Mexico, and the United States. wikipedia

Dealing with the government on transportation issues I can say it is not fear mongering or conspiracy theory to be worried, to be very worried, about the behavior of Ottawa and our sovereignty.

Yup manley is definately not trustworthy, hey working man isn't manley doing what you critisize harper for! Oh I get it it is ok when it is being done by a liberal eh! Hyprocrite!

I've been reading and listening to stuff on NAU from the US where it is a right wing issue with Jerome Corsi being the supposed whistleblower. I have a feeling it was made a rightwing issue deliberately hoping the left would either not pay attention or dismiss it as proof of racism.

We must not make the mistake of making this a partisan issue, when it is a human rights issue. We must understand that ALL of the political parties are onside at the I]leadership[/I] level. They will do nothing unless we start screaming about it now....bringing it up on talkshows would be helpful..

Ursus

When YOU have something intelligent to say....get out of hibernation and say it. Bear baiting is illegal, except in cyber space...and you took the bait hook line and sinker in the Leftie " koom by ya " re-union. Down on all fours, you have 100% more knees to react in knee jerk fashion when the other lefties attempt a pounce.

How's the salmon run...or are you really one of those other TYEE "spent forces" with a short shelf - life swimming upstream against the literal and figurative tide ?

Stump:

Fully aware the INTERNET was invented by the NON Private sector, decades ago, and it was an interesting story. Much technology has within its roots of origin Gov't funding, and military and NASA based initiatives. I didn't say "it" was invented by the private sector. (Maybe TYEE bloggers should also acknowledge that defence spending and space research also has collateral " bloodless " benefits , though I am sure they will rag and rage on re: that comment).

The rest of the tech we bloggers use is not provided by the Public Sector....(except maybe TG, N and now Ursus...probably running on tech and programming provided from an NDP/ KGB asset disposal sale. Red keyboards are in style again, especially indicated via some of these TYEE blogs).

KitsCommuter:

Stump has generously provided the results of years of research and concluded /determined that left wingers are better spellers than right wingers.

I had similar suspicions.

Now, do we spell it "color" or "colour"

Is it mispelled if we say color, or the UN would say no, but then we have the slow and ever subtle integration of Uncle Sam into Canada ?

But then again, what fosters bad spelling...current education theory? Thus the BCTF etc is leftie ain't it , so why does it want to create more right wingers ?

Are there secret meetings held for leftie recruits( those in the majority that don't have a genetic pre-disposition to be lefties ) so realz gud spellink is enphorced?

However, as STUMP has stated, Lefties are better spellers, so from now on our crack team will diligently proof read each TYEE blog to determine the left wingers and the right wingers ...lets say +/- ( 3 )errors per 250 words.

That knock on your door is not JW's ...it may be Jinny Sims and crew.

Enjoy conspiracy # 25728346 !

Nothing sends chills through my spine more than the thought of a knock on the door from the grammar police maestro. Pack me off to Guantánamo Bay but please God no, don't take away my spell checker!

Nana wrote,

And Nana is exactly right here. This is a democracy and defence of the country issue; of the people's right to choose.

I personally will walk the street and challenge the "continental ruling class leadership and their elites" with members of "The Right" anytime. :-) They must choose though, and decide quickly here, whether they stand with "the people" in defence of the country and its national sovereignty and institutions, or with the ruling class and its police and security infrastructure elites in their support of the US Empire takeover.

We can fight about all the other issues upon which we are fundamentally disagreed later.

I do have to say though, reading Rightist opinion here, it does not look too promising.

Time to make the "correct" choice here kiddies. Do you stand in defence of the nation, Canada, or are you going to continue in your US Empire Loyalist postures here, and side with "them".

If your choice is the former, defence of the country's sovereignty, then get going on it. If you want to "co-operate" around this single national issue, let us know.

Otherwise, we can only assume that you are in the camp of treason, which you "righties" have long effectively postulated here. (Though perhaps to here, without actually appreciating or understanding the full reality of what has been occurring behind closed ruling class doors. We can hope.)

I agree Nana. This issue of defence of the nation crosses normal class and political lines, in my view. Thanks for raising it. (Which doesn't mean that anyone is asked to roll over and play brain dead.)

Not having a better place to

Not having a better place to post this - I suppost the Canada/Aghanistan thread might be almost as appropriate - just wanted to get it into the mix somehow. From Truthdig, Oct 9, by Chris Hedges:
Chris Hedges: Bush's Nuclear Apocalypse
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601009_bushs_nuclear_apocalypse/
Posted on Oct 9, 2006

And here's the final paragraph -

If you are sure you will be raptured into heaven, your clothes left behind with the nonbelievers, then this news should cheer you up. If you are rational, however, these may be some of the last few weeks or months in which to enjoy what is left of our beleaguered, dying republic and way of life.

Depressing stuff. One only hopes he and Sy Hersh are both mistaken!!

Kitscommuter:

I hear the "Cubans" ie cigars are good in Guantanamo bay.

Then again in one of my past blogs, Castro was discussed and some of the TYEE-istas came out of the cyber woodwork in all sorts of bizarre fawning praise.

That (plus less than 3 spelling errors per 250 words) is 110% proof of their political leanings.

Absolutely.

Guaranteed.

Trust "us"

G West:

A colleague and I were discussing U.S. versus Canada.

He has a broad background and quite well - informed on many details of history.

Are you or any other TYEE bloggers aware that apparently (i)the US decades ago had invasion plan/s in place for Canada....(ii) Canada was aware of this invasion ....and (iii)Canada had a strategy to both counter and respond to the threat ?

(No this is NOT a joke....)

Let me know if any of you heard of it, though I am not sure if the U.S. was doing any more than postulating a theoretical invasion scenario.

I'll comment later.

KitsCommuter:

Forgot to answer and expand on my own question..ie why the leftie BCTF wants to create more right wingers ie conspiracy # 24967453888.

ANSWER: The historical realization that a democratic society populated by productive non left wingers is the best investment for them to "look out for the students best interests " ie obtain a 15 % raise and $4000 signing bonus" from a non- NDP Gov't .....then they can create more right wingers to leach off of..hence my remora comment/s.

Just because they are lefties doesn't mean they ain't hypocrites nor all the perks$$ that go with it. Right Wing is a good almost guaranteed investment for Lefties...the converse is rarely true.

(The preceeding was 100% certified "LINK FREE" zone).

Interesting if disturbing piece, GWest. Thanks for making us aware of it.

You are our equivalent of the CIA's "readers". :-) And always useful, timely stuff you bring to us.

And maestro, this information has been, certainly in print media in this country, with even maps and drawings as I recall, even fairly recently. (The Globe and Mail, the Sun, or such corporate media.) Indeed, when the material was made public, I recall some discussion of it here on Tyee. (Indeed, if I also recall, this "invasion planning" of the US goes back some considerable time, and has been updated and reconfigured once or twice.) The state of current Canadian "defence" planning in this regard though, I am unfamiliar with-, save that in light of the degree of our "deep integration" already, into the military systems of US military continental control and monitoring, I would suspect that any defence of Canada plans from a US invasion, are most likely in some deep dark cellar somewhere, gathering dust and mold-, not likely having been seriously considered for a very long time. (Indeed, again if my memory serves, these earlier media reports indicated precisely that as well.)

Anyone else recall all this?

maestro

Don't know that there are many inmates of GITMO who are allowed the luxury of smoking a Cuban cigar. I expect a more common taste in their mouths would be that of their own blood after a savage beating at the hands of their jailers. I won't lavish praise on Fidel, but I will say life in Cuba before the revolution was generally an orgy of sex, drugs, and gambling orchestrated by powerful mafia types. I'm sure not many of their citizens would be glad to see a return to that. Had the US not been so paranoid and opened up trade with the new regime then we might now be looking at a prosperous and free nation. I don't know how many times I have heard the argument from the right that free trade with a nation is an assured way of planting the seeds of democracy. Too bad that approach wasn't taken with Cuba!

My personal opinion is that the War with Iran is not going to happen. For one thing, N. Korea's new threat might be saving us all from a war with Iran. A war on too massive fronts...I don't think so. For another, there's no selling such a war to more than 30% of Americans. World's greatest liar, Colin Powell, has resigned. (Remember semi-trailers full of Nukes and Uranium from Niger). Besides nobody would believe anything he says, anyway.

Last but not least,I think the people behind Bush have given up on him, and Bob Woodward's second attempted take down of an American president is a good indicator.

Very flimsy evidence, I know. Hope I'm right.

Look for Hillary as next POTUS.

maestro

I think from your convoluted logic you are implying that left leaning individuals are the "remora" as you put it, feeding off the life energies of productive, hard working, right wing types. I'm not sure how a discussion of "signing bonuses" and the BCTF has any relevance to this discussion. I really don't want to get into some form of sophist debate based upon your obvious stereotypes of anybody else who does not agree with your opinions.

maestro yes I have heard of the invasion plans by the u.s. and the planned response by our government.

That was in the past and this bunch we have in ottawa would help the u.s. in my opinion.

I am under the impression a good right winger would support the u.s. in this endeavor.

Btw you prove my point with the attacks against myself and others on this thread, you need help pal you can't dazzle us with your brilliance so you try to baffle us with your b.s. and intimidate with your attacks! Typical bully tactic!

I grew up in a socred and conservative household, a veteran father and a real proud canuck, bordering on fanatical hockey fan.

After bill junior and lying brian I switched political parties, haven't watched a hockey game since Neilson threw in the towel, all for the same reason.

The dispatch of such a powerful naval force is indeed ominous G West. It has been little publicized in the media and that alone is suggestive of some impending aggression. The christening of yet another US nuclear aircraft carrier last week by GWB is another scary reminder of how committed this administration is to preserving US hegemony through overpowering force. Do they not realize how vulnerable they are from attack within? The specter of devastating terrorist attacks as yet unimagined must surely serve as a sobering reality to at least some in a position of power in the US. I only trust that the voting electorate will soon realize the madness of this direction and vote in a responsible and enlightened government. But I fear time may run out before that is an option. Hope not.

More on the invasion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901412_pf.html

I am first inclined to agree, Truman. It would take a total madness to proceed with an invasion of Iran.

But then I hear KitsCommuter as well, and worry nonetheless. This is a really quite mad crew, of which we get some insight through their US Empire Loyalist supporters here.

Still, even they must have some trepidation about where this all leads them, and be haunted by nightmare images of Hitler and his Nazi upper echelons in their Berlin bunker during that rightist crews last "miscalculation" days. Hopefully.

Doh!!!

Spotted another typo maestro. That should read "(The preceeding was 100% certified "THINK FREE" zone)"

I suspect (hope) it would be political suicide for the republicans if they were to force open conflict with Iran.

If you look at the polls the bushites are already taking a beating over Iraq, their own people suspect insiders were responsible for 911.

this can't be good for bush!

"It is just a blood bath, a path of devastation," says a Denver Realtor. "It is just ugly."

Home prices down 15-17% from a couple of years ago...foreclosures up
63%...and the "flu" is spreading to Naples, Miami, Orange County,
Boston...everywhere.

Boston Blues...
"It's unbelievable," a Realtor told The Boston Globe. These are "very
large drops."

or this.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2006/10/15/the_homeowners_day_of_reckoning/

more on invasion

http://invadecanada.us/

Hey ursus. Thanks for brightening up my day. The invadecanada.us site was a hoot. Especially the fan mail!

Henry Makow says that N.Korea just killed the excuse for bombing Iran. So I'm a little more comfortable.
http://www.rense.com/general73/kim.htm

Unfortunately I understand Cheney has a "2nd 9/11" policy in place, i.e., if a 2nd 9/11 happens, Iran did it so they nuke Iran. So I'm not quite through useless worry yet. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20060810&articleId=2942

I think I now know what some Austrians felt like in the events leading up to Anschluss. At least Austrian governments resisted and called for a plebescite.

Is the Annexation of Canada part of Bush's Military Agenda?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20050616&articleId=174

Hi Nana. Now I've really got hurt feelings. How come you had to go to Henry
Mckaw for that? I just said the same thing about N. Korea a few posts ago, eh.

What's this, chopped liver? "For one thing N. Korea's new threat might be saving us from war with Iran."

Kidding!

Talking about pre-emptive strikes...Did you read where (secret FBI agent), Bob Woodward does a pre-emptive strike in his Washington Post explanation of his relationship with wannabe FBI director and deepist throat, Mark Felt?

Woodward paraphrased: "I think Felt figured I was his agent, or something."

Woodward claims he just couldn't figure out what Felt's motives could have been.

I guess it never occurred to him that motives are important when you're publishing information that topples US presidents.

So now with the Post, which has, um...ahem... interesting associations trying to take down Bush and the Clintons the new darlings of the Globalists, the fix is in and Hillary's POTUS as long as she can get anywhere close to good numbers.

Oh oh. I just read your Cheney-Iran link, Nana.

Apparently there's enough people around who are stupid enough to think Osama had a motive for doing 9/11, but is there even a single person with IQ above l00 who'd believe Iran would do another 9/ll on the US and invite the the US in to shock and awe, possibly nuke, Tehran?

These guys may be fundamentalists, but suicidal, I don't think so.

So if there's another 9/11, guess where to look?

Sorry truman I forgot about your comment.I don't think it's on this thread.

I was very suspicious of the whole Felt biz. It was too facile and convenient that he was quite old, so he couldn't be interviewed.
Woodward was identified with Naval Intelligence(ONI) a few years back with the comment that once an ONI guy ever an ONI guy. I suppose that wouldn't preclude him from working for the FBI too.

I thought the same thing you did about NK, but I didn't think about NK/China

First of all Nana, thanks as well for these truly interesting links with their information that you bring to us here.
This one I found especially interesting.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20050616&articleId=174

I urge all to read it.

Which answers the question of our wingnut Maestro, certainly insofar as the state of current US Military planning for an invasion of Canada. Though it is about as detailed and planned as I suspected, and have picked up from multitude sources over recent years. (It much flows logically from, and is pointed to even, by the degree to which the Canadian Military command structure has itself been integrated into "Continental" planning, beginning even in the early Cold War years after WW2.) And it is why listening to such High Command level officer corp in this country, even as General Hillier, for example, that their "US Empire Think" shows so clearly through near every word they utter. It is really the colonial military command system in which they have been educated and served their careers.

Our Canadian Officer Corps can really be more accurately described as a Colonial Officer Corp of the US Empire.

Going back to observations of Bailey and Lynn, it is the treason that has long been built into the entire fabric of Canadian civil, political, corporate and military institutions and society over a long time. Which this article helps make clear, and that they have all long been in on it, or submitted to it with their silence.

When even as a lowly "lower decks" seamen in the Navy in the 50s-early 60s however, I always knew that this was really the way it is. And that was merely gleaned from my observations of our operational activities and relationship with the US Navy. Funny eh. It was an instinctually determined knowledge. I could sense it. I never even had a doubt. And I was just a teenager.

The degree and level of the treachery and treason however, should rightly fill one with rage. Still fills me with rage. And like you said awhile back yourself Nana, our entire political and ruling economic class leadership are in on it. They are all culpable.

Dangerous times moving in on us, sister. For it is, like a festering pimple, all coming to a head.

Thanks Nana for the url Coyote reposted, whooa this is a sell out, the liberals did this to us? The cowards.

Hey working guy your party seems to have given our country to the yanks. The first time someone gets arrested in Canada by a yankee the shit should hit the fan!

The yanks would consider this to be treason and rightly so.

And this is that compromised twit Stockboy Day's territory now, isn't it?

Ursus:

Sorry to hear about your tragic epiphany re : politics.

If you ever listened to Rafe, especially since he began a new career on radio in the early 1980's, I've observed his "givens" versus his "evolutions". His often no holds barred insiders view as an ex politician and a Cabinet Minister put much of the inner workings of the world of politics in a more informed context.

One of his oft -used bromides of wisdom, and one of my personal favourites, is his political rating system out of a scale of one to ten. Rafe states that one can be a 3-4 out of 10, but still be the best choice because the opposition/other option are a 2 out of 10 or less.

This can be extrapolated into not only are they ALL not perfect, they are FAR from perfect.

Certain groups and parties use some idealsitic Utopia as their social contract, and when they get a few and far between chance to deliver...it always gets interesting aka fails miserably .

As a side note....There was once a retired "old school" B.C. judge who wrote a column and was often critical of lawyers and the legal system. Rafe, as an ex -lawyer was often critical of this retired judge for his criticism of Rafe's profession. However, over time and even in TYEE columns, Rafe has had his own epiphanies and very critcal of the legal profession.

This is not like "Animal Farm" where " all are equal, just some more equal than others"...its the LEAST less perfect we each choose,ie the 3 out of 10 versus the 2 or 1 out of ten( at least some of us).

I am not claiming that choosing who to vote for is not at times tough, and often we do choose to vote by default...vote against vs vote for.

Even Bob Rae, Federal Liberal leadership candidate, Ex Ontario NDP leader has distanced himself from the NDP...which he has summarized as the party of Protest..which effectively summarizes many of the TYEE bloggers.

Whine... complain.... bitch and protest...but rarely if ever provide any solutions.

That best adds up to a ZERO out of ten.

Re the US "theoretical" plan to invade Canada and Canada's planned response.

Other links on this were interesting, but my colleague informed me that one of Canada's re-active plans was to load up on their military resources and focus on a major attack on the U.S capital,...ie Washington D.C. and literally obliterate it.

In "theory", in my view , this would be brilliant, given the many collateral advantages ..ie embarassing to the psyche of the politicians, the U.S. military, down to the citizens , the old " symbolism" , plus the high likelihood of major disruption via destruction of various and myriad infrastructure needed to run the U.S country.

Can't see the U.S wanting to invade Canada "again"...for various reasons.

Didn't lose much sleep about the U.S. neighbour at our doorstep before this, and even less AFTER I heard it.

Again, a brilliant strategy,( and probably the idea of a NON East- Van Western Canadian ).

they don't have to invade Canada maestro, mulroney and martin have pretty much sold us out. It is time to get off our butts and let the parasites in ottawa know this is not exceptable.

People who actually care about something other then their latest toy should actually start informing themselves about what the hell is going on. The media is not helping.

So you are suggesting that the liberals and conservatives are offering a solution? They put us in this position so why the hell should we trust them.

The question then becomes, of course, how much weight do we attach to the "opinion" of your unnamed source/ alleged collegue, let alone yourself, with a zero out of ten rating around here, maestro.

You are but one os those noisy, no mind, no credible information wingnut dogs who shows up in the neighbourhood once in awhile, who night nor day seems to sleep.

"Bark, bark, bark, bark, bark!" Day and night. "Bark, bark, bark."

"STFU!! Somebody throw an old boot at that goddamn mindless critter."

Needs a goddamn lead pill, the bastard.

"THWACK!"

There. Now we'll all be able to get some sleep. :-)

KitsCommuter

Re LINK FREE zone ...

and your quasi corrupted plagiarism ie THINK FREE zone .

Again , like Guantanamo Bay...close but NO cigar.( BTW how come Americans aren't jumping on boats and fleeing to Cuba, given the apocalypse (cc) that is forthcoming care of Dubya? )

You forgot to add the LY to FREE(ie not Lie)

Thus THINK FREE-LY in the more apropos translation to LINK FREE.

FYI...LINK FREE is perhaps best translated as not continually shackled in chain-like fashion to the plagiarism of the Leftie bible.

"coy"-Yote'

aka all wise Yoda.

Once a commie,(.... always a commie...)at least you admitted that in a past blog .

Again I qualified my comment, actually initiated the comment with an open question if any one else had heard what I was TOLD...TOLD....as I didn't claim to have an original document or even a copy.

One response by another blogger. It was interesting. The attack on D.C. would be a very good deterrent, would it not? (Don't bother answering Yoda...your pigeonholes are really a funnel ).

I don't even need a barbless hook to even remotely bait you, simply mimic the motion of the cast.

PS Bring it on .....Yoda...bring it on. You'll thus expedite the real sleep you need, you spent force ....err FARCE.

Ursus....

In the infinite quest for truth, via the TYEE.....tell me your S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N or S-O-L-U -T-I-O-N-S......AFTER you have actually identified the P-R-O-B-L-E-M/S.

I usually find the silence deafening on the other side once this Golden Law of reality is dusted off....again.

BTW Yoda/Yote' types (above) usually turn these debates/discussions into pissing matches , then cry " wah wah bully(?????) " when they invite an equilibraic retort and rebuttal....it's almost formulaic . Typical of their side of the political equation.

the solution is to let our politicians know we are a seperate country from the u.s. and will not allow them to dismantle this country for their own personal gain. So either listen to Canadians or get kicked out of power, it is that simple!

That we are not interested in giving a foreign countries police agencies the right to come into our country with their guns and harrass us! You don't have a problem with this?

The problem is our elected officials are bordering on treason with their actions if not commiting treason by giving a foreign country the right to bring their troops into our country.

If the yanks do start arresting canucks in their own country I suspect the political fall out will take most of these traitors out of power which is a good thing!

Will be interesting to see what happens when the dea starts going after the growers in burbs and back country, there will be some pissed off people!

Even if they do have mounties with them the word will get out who is behind it! The areas affected by the softwood betrayal are not very happy with the yanks then for our government to give this kind of power away will not go over very well!

maestro

As in your original context (LINK FREE) derived as in the absence of. (Thinking that is!)

maestro

As much as I enjoy trading barbs with you it really is kind of a waste of time. You know we're not the enemy here. I think most people who post on tyee just want to exchange ideas and information with others regardless of whether they share their opinions or not. So it would be great if you could keep it civil and direct your intellect towards finding common ground instead of taking potshots at every opportunity. It serves no constructive purpose and only isolates you from others. For those of you out there who have also grown tedious of dealing with the likes of maestro, I offer you this site which gives good advice on how to handle his sort. It's quite humorous as well.

http://s88172659.onlinehome.us/2005/11/how-to-talk-to-wing-nuts.html

(Sorry maestro, but this is not a LINK FREE zone)

This is not entirely on topic (secret summits) but I feel we have drifted somewhat anyways from the direction of the original article. I read this last night and found it an interesting piece regarding the situation we are in vis a vis North Korea. It points out how once again the diplomatic bumblings of GWB have gotten us into a very tricky situation. Potential dire consequences could still be avoided through diplomatic initiatives, but as far as NK having nuclear capabilities, I'm afraid the horse is out of the gate.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0405.kaplan.html

There was a very interesting interview with an American academic and author on CBC Radio's Sunday Morning yesterday as well. He made many of the points you allude to KitsCommuter.

Anyone else hear it?

Connie Fogal and Mel Hurtig on now

http://www.coopradio.org/listen/

The problem as I see it ursus is that Canadians aren't speaking up. Apathy is the real killer here along with it's sidekick Ignorance. We continuously vote back into power the same types of people who pursue secret agendas that enhance the circumstances of a selected few. It is Canadians ignorance of events and our apathy with regards to making any meaningful changes that is our undoing. We are not alone, it is the same story down in the States. Although I literally wince when I hear Alex Jones give one of his bull horn sessions I have to admit he's got the cajones to actually get out and make some noise about real issues that have been hidden from public view. I consider him a bit out there on some topics but at least he's doing his best to bring it to the publics attention. I wish we had a Canadian equivalent. Someone with a bit of a redneck background but enough intellect to be able to interpret the issues of the day. Someone with the insight and awareness of a Mel Hurtig, the social conscience and political acumen of a Tommy Douglas, and the kickass real Canadian of a Stompin' Tom.

That would definitely be a good mixture, kitscommuter!

However, I think we have the where withal we just have to motivated and made to beleive we have the POWER to make a difference. Not only do we have to make our government stand up and pay attention to our disgust and angst and make them change. We have to dins a way to make big corporations and their directors responsible and accountable for ALL of their actions against human rights and the welfare of all those they negatively effect on a regular basis. The movements are there, they are just not big enough yet, but they will get there. People are getting tired of this shit and we all get to the point where enuf is enuf. I see it coming, I don't know what the outcome is gonna be, but the fight is gonna be a doozie!!!

I suspect the fallout from the housing market collapse in the states will have a lot of people unemployed here in the resource based economies.

With el gordo's cut backs and the changes to ei people who are used to being employed and apathetic will be very angry when they find themselves at the wrong end of the new era.

Maybe then people will begin to question the neo-cons and their nasty ways!

I like the thought of a large number of pissed off unemployed northerners being harrassed by a foreign police agency looking for grow ups in our country! LOL!

This whole sulphurous get-together in Banff is almost as sinister as what I saw last summer here on the coast: Jimmy Pattison and George H Bush and John Major and a bunch of secret service thugs touring around on Jimmy's glossy punt, the Nova Spirit. Now what would the old Carlyle boys want with Jimmy? And what is Jimmy cooking up with former warmongering heads of state?
Don't expect any answers in the media.

I thought some of you might appreciate the irony of this site in the current context:

http://www.sharethesatire.com/satire/store/291690

Kitscommuter:

You've saved the free world with your last few blogs.....good on ya !!!!

My contribution was to get Coyote to STFU.

maestro

Great! Now that the world is saved we can get on with the rest of our lives. As for me I'm off to work to pay off that huge mortgage. But that was covered in another blog.

No small feat! But I expect you'll be hearing from him again ;-)

Was just listening to commentary on the CBC. Today is the day the Military Commissions Act of 2006 goes into effect. Guess myself and the majority of other bloggers on this site will have to go into hiding! I think you'll be safe though ;-)
Doh! Can't forget to put in a link!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act_of_2006

KitsCommuter:

In the past Tyee blogs on 9/11, I had mentioned many American relatives, actually who live in NYC and area and have come to visit us in the Great White North occassionally.

Given these TYEE blogs and their many "trust us facts", I will ask my relatives to remove their hats next time to look for "horns and the long tail", though this conflicts with TYEE majority who would "in reading between the lines" feel that these horns and tails are either present at birth or soon after they enter an American school. I didn't notice any horns and tails the last time they visited.

But then again, the U.S. school system has quite a Non right wing facet,based on LINKS .... (yes LINKS I have read!!!!).... much like Canada, and actually I find the American citizens not that much different than the Canadian citizen....so where do many of these TYEE bloggers get their "intelligence" on things American?

The basic premise is while some TYEE bloggers are under their beds in mortal fear of their perceived obviously inevitable invasion of Canada as they type and post blogs....it just doesn't "seem" to add up.

As I had mentioned to an ex -classmate, now an LLB, FEAR and the marketing of FEAR aka FEARmongering is one of the best commodities out there... and the Left side of the political equation seems to have the majority control/controlling interest.IPO soon?

I'll ask my relatives the next time they visit on what their countries plans are....while some of the TYEE bloggers keep typing from under their beds.

KitsCommuter.

I read the link.

(Oh no!)

You have probably heard of the massive intelligence gathering devices that apparently exist in the U.S that tap into phones and internet etc..ie various forms of communication.

ie Big Brother is watching.

As your link implies....and given the newly established U.S. laws....unfortunately many TYEE bloggers cannot now avail themselves of cross- border excursions....ie brother 'Yote et al can't make their weekly excursions to Neiman Marcus, Tiffany's , Nordstroms in their BMW/Mercedes and maybe the odd time they lower themselves to go to a Target/WalMart store...Also the inability to watch the Mariners and Seahawks games live.

Their hostilities to both U.S and American Gov'ts has likely been logged, duly noted , future entry into the U.S. likely refused and hence their future lack of opportunity to view our Southern continental neighbours up close and personal.

That's a reasonable conclusion of many TYEE bloggers comments, Big Brother technology, in combination with the new U.S law you indicated via the LINK.

These TYEE bloggers will have to resort to even more LINKS now .

P.S. Don't say I didn't warn you...(or am I also fearmongering ? )

Hmmm.

maestro you need help pal, I will explain why I don't much like or trust the yanks.

Having spent time in their (your?)country on both coasts North and South when crossing the border was as easy as showing your drivers license or sin card or on many occasions nothing.

Have worked with yanks on a number of jobs and found most to be ok a little nieve when it comes to Canada but that is not surprising considering their media.

It is not the people themselves I despise but the right wing neo-con zealots who make comments like sending tanks into our country.

I take threats very seriously in fact I believe that the best defense is a quick and brutal offense! Do you like having your governments policies dictated by a bunch of religous freaks from another country.

I don't, lets not forget that the yanks have really screwed us on more then one occasion, softwood the avro arrow as a couple of examples.

I am a Canadian, why should I trust a nation that will in my opinion not hesitate to overun us with force if they deem it necessary.

Most here are in my opinion pro Canada which would make them anti any country which threatens Canada and you have to admit that the yanks whether thru lobbying or what ever are the biggest threat to our way of life that this country faces and there are lots of examples.

Why would a Canadian support sending foreign troops into our country unless we were being invaded and these troops were fighting the invaders. I don't understand your blind trust in the yanks unless you are like ron irwin a brain dead religous fanatic.

maestro:
Are you seriously suggesting that the employment of 'fear' as a motivational device to advance a particular course of action is a device of the Left?

Surely not. Even the greenest tyro on this site knows full well where the tactic comes from and which group has been using it to most effect since 9/11. And it ain’t the left!

If you expect to be taken as anything more than a jokester around here you'll have to do a lot better than that.

One of the biggest problems the current administration in the US has is the profound disconnect between what they say is true and what the actual facts eventually reveal.

In my opinion, it is this more or less complete divorce between what the Bush government has been saying and doing and what is actually happening on the ground that has created much of the hypothetical speculation about what involvement the administration had in the events of 9/11. How do you trust someone who never tells you the truth? Simply put, you can’t.

When you never tell the truth, or when the complexities of spin become more important than the simplicity of raw facts, it isn't hard to understand why there are conspiracy theorists.

As for Canadians, as Tommy Douglas never tired of pointing out, when you think you've made a good deal with a Yankee trader it's time to count the spoons. These closer associations with a country that today passed into law a provision for extra-judicial murder and torture will not do us any good, ever. If there is a heaven then the Founders of the United States and the author of the Declaration of Independence are today restless and uncomfortable in whatever passes for leisure clothing in that jurisdiction.

Ask Maher Arar, among others about the joys of extra judicial detention. Ask the British, (unlike the prostrate Peter McKay and his pal pee wee) why they have insisted that the US exempt British nationals from the purview of this evil law. Ask yourself why it is necessary for a nation that cares about the rule of law and the primacy of truth.

As to your other red herring: The difference between the American people and their government is clear - there are idiot Canadians around who may not be able to make the distinction, as there are idiots in every society. Big deal. Democracy gives the same vote per person to the smart folks as it does to the silly folks. As long as there are a few more smart ones around than stupid ones we do pretty well - lately, the thoughtlessly stupid have had a bit of a good innings. I think on November 7 much of that will come to an end in the US.

In Canada, one hopes, a little later, but nonetheless this too will pass. Blue rinse crowd notwithstanding.

American citizens come in all shapes and sizes maestro. I have relatives in the States too. They are ardent Democrats who are very suspicious and fearful of the current administration's agenda. And rightfully so. I am incredulous that you cannot see the potential danger in this new legislation that, in essence, revokes a person's right to habeas corpus. Did you know that citizen's of any country can be deemed a "security threat" by the US and be imprisoned and even executed without fair trial. That includes the use of torture (waterboarding among other techniques). And the sole decider of who falls into this category is made at the discretion of the US military and the President. With no option of appeal. You seem to make light of this situation as you must obviously feel it does not affect you. A sort of I'm not a bad guy so why should I care attitude. Maybe if it was closer to home you would have a different take on it. What if it was your son or daughter who was spirited away by security forces and locked up in prison somewhere in the States. I guess you would feel secure knowing that our government would obviously petition on your behalf. But I'm afraid that would not be the case as our PM has not made any effort to exempt our citizens from this dragnet of totalitarianism. Britain and a number of other countries have negotiated exclusion from this draconian law. Why hasn't Harper stepped up to protect us? Perhaps those of us who care could fire off an e-mail to our local member of parliament asking this exact question.

could it be that harper and his cronies intend to use this law to their advantage?

There have been reports of detention centers being constructed south of the border. I do not know the veracity of such information and hope that it is some kind of hoax, but considering other events that are occurring I wonder just what the hell is going on. Maybe KBR/Haliburton have a number of construction projects on the go up here as well.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B62C8724D-AE8A-4B5C-94C7-70171315C0A0%7D&dateid=38741.5136277662-858254656

More info on the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11095

Ursus is right on. The only enemy we have is the USA. It is the only country that has ever attacked us. It is a bully. Catering to bullies just encourages them to be more abusive. All too many Americans--at least those in control, those who get elected-- have no sense of reason or fairness. Winning is all. Americans deify their wealthy, even when some of the latter have been shown to be outright gangsters! Then they go to Church on Sunday to pretend they're Christians.

Geez

Did I ever start something...all those cyber trees that had to be cut down to handle all these blogs.

(Ummm... that is before they are exported in raw form to Leftie Land.

Good article, Tom. Bottom line is that, whenever a politician, or his/her office, go into "no comment" mode, you know for sure they're up to something they know we would not approve of. This is not a left vs right issue; it's a matter of our right to a sovereign democracy, and to a country with distinct and separate values. Lynn's quote and some that preceded it, tell it like it is. Paraphrasing modern-day lingo: With politicians and corporations like ours, who needs enemies?

Keep the information coming, Tom - and the next item for discussion needs to be: If the Liberals want power to continue their sponsorship-dipping, and the Neo-Cons want it so that, aided and abetted by the Gordon Campbells of the world, who do we get to run the country? Depressing, isn't it?

the folks that I respect on this and other blog put forth their opinions and arguments and stand by them unless they are wrong and when they are some will even admit it.

You put forth a bunch of b.s. then try to insult and bully your way out when you get called on your crap!

This comment

"P.S. Don't say I didn't warn you...(or am I also fearmongering ? )"

would in my opinion appear to be a threat, was that your intention?

SORRY. MISSED SOME WORDS AT THE END

Good article, Tom. Bottom line is that, whenever a politician, or his/her office, go into "no comment" mode, you know for sure they're up to something they know we would not approve of. This is not a left vs right issue; it's a matter of our right to a sovereign democracy, and to a country with distinct and separate values. Lynn's quote and some that preceded it, tell it like it is. Paraphrasing modern-day lingo: With politicians and corporations like ours, who needs enemies?

Keep the information coming, Tom - and the next item for discussion needs to be: If the Liberals want power to continue their sponsorship-dipping, and the Neo-Cons want it so that, aided and abetted by the Gordon Campbells of the world, they can give the country away, who do we get to run the country? Depressing, isn't it?

are you threatening us in our own country, saying that if we have an anti u.s. or more accurately a pro Canadian opinion that big brother u.s.a. will come after us?

Ursus:

Canadian Bro'

No,.... apparently the U.S. has exactly the Hi Tech intelligence infrastructure to monitor much modern - day communication, and will focus in on key words and phrases.

Surely you have heard of that, haven't you, and likely even more so since 9/11?

Religious fanatic eh ??? ..Ok ....so whats my Rabbi's name??
----------------------------------------
Alci:

Agreed,....No one has a monopoly on Fear Mongering.

However, certain facets of the political spectrum unwittingly reduce themselves to the same jokester level they often accuse others of aka the marijuana calling the kettle black.

Many of us base our comments on our life experiences, with many other people of a myriad of beliefs and backgrounds. Many on the right side of the political centrist demarcation point are often more "left wing" on important issues than the generic brand of "Leftie Ltd".

Like the old saying, many, if not most of us in our youth had Leftie views ,had our individual epiphanies and our individual conclusions , and over time saw history repeat itself with the same old tired rhetoric message using the same old tired Illogic logic aka "Leftie Ltd".

Part of that Leftie Ltd. is a basic sheer intolerance for anything other than the party line...but luckily the self-induced shot in own foot "parody" trumps any "concern" that Leftie Ltd. is a major threat.

"Less than Leftie" or " Leftie Lite " will actually discuss things with a more open mind , but won't start off with a demonization of a group ie the Americans ,nor most of the facts at hand. Americans' classic and amusing stereotype of Canadians is far less a threat than Canadians own quasi Al Qaida demonization of the U.S.

Like someone blogged earlier..what defines us as Canadians, at least in the past, is we are NOT Americans ?!?! Great!!! ..is that it ???

Oh Boy..Formula = I'm not ____, and thus I am ____better???

Blue Rinse crowd???...geez that's the 2 nd time in about a month I've read that old stereotype on the TYEE.

One more time ursus...

The technology apparently exists, careful what you say.

The only counter strategy is to prostelytize 30 million Canadians into the same toxic views and then we call it even...ie overload the system.

Hmmm.

I am aware of the eavesdropping that has been taking place for years, and am not disputing the tech side of this only your comments which I do not like. Rabbi???

I do find your attempt at labelling us as lefties quite amusing, so let me see if I have this right, if I am pro Canadian concerned about further integration with a foreign government and loss of sovereignty I am a leftie and a commie. Nice try pal!

What I really am is a Canadian first and foremost, not willing to give up our sovereignty to another nation who has been and continues to piss off the entire planet with their foreign policies!

Right-on Marysue. Americans have "Flag Poisoning", all that saluting and praying, Onward Christian Soldiers kind of thing all the while rattling the sword behind the back. How did they get like that?

maestro:
That crap of Churhill's was crap when he said it the first time and it's still crap every time it's repeated by members of the blue rinse crowd like you - the sad part is I think you know it - and you post your typical stuff anyway. Go for it. Every thread needs its Brent Butt I guess. Just like the socred party needed its Grace McCarthy and that other whackjob Tilly Jean Rolston who wanted to change BC Schools by introducing her Effective Living Today guide into the curriculum. You think things are bizarre today? Jeez, hardly. There are hardly any ‘new’ bad ideas – just re-hashes of the same old ones – much like the lies Gary Lunn was spinning this morning about Canada’s continued support for the asbestos industry while the rest of the world tries to ban the stuff.

All thanks to Canada’s ‘New’ Government.

As for the problems in Canada being the fault of the left that too is such utter nonsense that I can't believe I'm even bothering with you.

If you want to find a group of raging loonies (and that seems to be what you're looking for) these days you don't have far to look. Last time I checked into the subject there were people who ought to know better in the states who claim that every gay member of the Republican party - including I guess the Veep's daughter - are really democratic plants. There's a place with the requisite dissonance for a good old boy like you.

If the monster raving loony party needs a new home I'd say the Republicans have prepared a place for them and it's not on the left.

Rapture anyone?

hey maestro do you support allowing the this deal signed by the liberals?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20050616&articleId=174

this is a small part of it!

And ultimately what is at stake is that beneath the rhetoric, Canada will cease to function as a Nation:

Its borders will be controlled by US officials and confidential information on Canadians will be shared with Homeland Security.
US troops and Special Forces will be able to enter Canada as a result of a binational arrangement.
Canadian citizens can be arrested by US officials, acting on behalf of their Canadian counterparts and vice versa.

Yes or No?

treason |ˈtrēzən| noun (also high treason) the crime of betraying one's country, esp. by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government : they were convicted of treason.
• the action of betraying someone or something : doubt is the ultimate treason against faith.

Back to Byers, Belatedly: TG, I'd like to see his comment "There's nothing particularly sinister in the secrecy surrounding the Banff meeting" in context. In fact, I'd like to read the whole of what he said not just what Barrett thought was the gist of it. I've read only the many items he's commented on in the Globe, and every time he's backing Canadian autonomy as in the Devil's Lake issue where he warned us that the US was about to move water from Devil's Lake on Dakota's border with Canada into the Sheyenne River which flows into the Red River and would take toxins and deadly parasites straight to Lake Winnipeg and destroy the $5m fishing industry there. (This is underway now)
An excellent column of Byers' in the Globe last week "True North strong and...free to give up our sovereignty?" reveals his position on the Security & Prosperity Partnership Report and shows how the convergence of the US and Canada is occurring through regulation rather than legislation so that human rights and national identity aren't factored in. So, when Byers says there's nothing particularly sinister about the secrecy, he could have meant that as everything else subversive is happening in secrecy, that is now the norm and we shouldn't be surprised?

aorangi, Byers also apparently said that the forum: "...is well organized and they're well funded. These are actors we know about and who, in many cases, are very public about their views and their efforts."

Doesn't this, "...actors we know about," stuff suggest that it's more "not to worry" advice?

And: "It's a project that's being advanced by people who have thought these things through. This is a major collaborative effort by a group of pretty smart people."

I think these sentiments are in contradiction to, as you say, much of Byers' other work on the Canadian sovereignty issue, regarding the United States.

And so, normally, when I notice apparent contradictions, I'm suspicious that the writer has a secret agenda, and it tends to make me not trust him/her.

At any rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Byers is reading this stuff, so maybe he'll come on and clear it all up.

Or maybe Barrett will come on and advise me that I've misinterpreted what he was intending to report about Byers' attitude.

If Byer's is actually trying to advise us that the secrecy's no big deal, I'd suggest that he's probably not to be trusted, wouldn't you, aorangi?

Well TG, the "well-organized" etc comment is true, right?

The "actors we know about" is true.

The "group of pretty smart people is true.

His sentiments I don't see as a contradiction but as a warning. Read it again with the thought of it being a warning in your mind and you may see no contradiction as did I the first time when I read it that way.

We don't know enough about him to come to a conclusion: there's not enough on which to form an opinion we can stand by. I was influenced also by someone telling me he's a friend of Murray Dobbin - that would do it for me if it was true.

For sure he reads all this stuff so let him clear it up himself unless profs aren't allowed to do that. I don't know how far their freedom extends.

Truman have you gone back and read Byers earlier pieces? Try this one:

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/10/05/globalcitizen/

Hi, Nana. Yes. I quoted from that article a few posts ago--4 days ago according to the time log. Scroll back.

Here it is again: "Global citizenship empowers individual human beings to participate in the decisions concerning their lives, including economic, social, cultural and environmental conditions in which they live."

That's why I said his remarks to Barrett seem to be in contradiction.

I had a creative non-fiction piece in the Tyee in '05. A few people thought it was absolute crap, and so I came on the forum and tried to explain what I was up to.

Maybe it's just me but I'd jump at any opportunity to clarify what I've written, especially when people are taking an interest in it.

It's a serious privilege for one person to be able to influence the lives of thousands, and now that sites like the Tyee make it interactive...that seems like writers' heaven to me.

Oops! I left the word, "political," out of the Byers quote.

It should have been: "Global citizenship empowers individual human beings to participate in decisions concerning their lives, including the political, economic, social, cultural and environmental conditions in which they live."

I just emailed Mr. Byers asking him to join this discussion and present a clarification of whether the secrecy surrounding the Banff convention is something we should be concerned about.

Barrett writes: "Byers, who holds the Canada Research Chair in Global Politics and International Law at UBC, said he doesn't see anything particularly sinister in the secrecy surrounding the Banff meeting."

Not sure I should be divulging email responses, but I got an automatic response saying "not reading emails" until a certain date, so if you guys keep writing interesting comments mabye we can keep this thread open until then.

Can't divulge how long though.

Bumper sticker seen recently in Vancouver:

Republicans for Voldemort

I did not get a chance to look at the license plate.

Ursus...

In the spirit of the MLB playoffs(Oops no Canadian team "s" ....eerrr Canadian team full of mostly Non - Canadians).

Here's a curve ball.

Give me Ursus' armchair view of what Canada would be like if for W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R reason we joined the U.S. and formed ONE big country.

Ursus:

I seem to recall that when 9/11 happened ( ie 2001 = pre 2002 ), the air space over most of North America was ultimately secured.

I also seem to recall a 747 , which I believe was from China, was not responding very quickly to requests to land at YVR.

Apparently 2 US Air Force fighter jets (usually a stronger hint than a Cessna) were scrambled to escort the 747 to land , which to me implies we didn't have the Canadian fighter jets ready or ready in time.

Luckily AFTER the fact we realized the 747 wasn't a threat. However, before that was established, this 747 "may" have been a threat to either Canadians or Americans.

I think pragmatism trumped dogmatism,....given (i) the UNIQUE circumstances (ii) at the GIVEN time ...hint hint.

PS Actually...9/11 would have been a perfect smokescreen to take over Canada,....chaos, confusion, send the U.S military in (aka like a quasi- Trojan Horse ) under the guises of protecting our best interests...then "stay a while". I am VERY surprised our intrepid conspiracy theorists TG and N haven't tied up the loose ends of 9/11 with this aforementioned "missed opportunity" by the U.S.

G West:

You are becoming like Trudeau...an enigma wrapped up in a mystery, or a mystery wrapped up in an enigma..whatever the quote is...

It's like another blog on another topic where "Working Man" makes his comments under the democratic umbrella we ALL do...Then he seems to get pigeonholed, and when he doesn't fit the Leftie profile of who they think he is, the heavens open and the Lefties heads spin and projectile vomit more party line comments . That's more an indictment of the Lefties Ltd. than anyone else.

Now you are regressing back to a similar mode, when in recent past blogs your " closet objectivity " was beginning to find its way out.

The Left Ltd. ( a sub group of the overall left )often reminds me of those PNE salesmen selling "Magic" this or "Super" that. I have an open mind...so sell me on the Left Ltd product.

However sorry...30 + years of Non Delivery and poor quality Control by Left Ltd. leaves one jaded aka "Put Up of Shut Up".

Digging up the names you mentioned is another subjective stretch..ya forgot Flying Phil and Zalm. Suprised you didn't scrape up that Right Wing Socred approx. 40 years ago that got caught charged and sentenced via corruption.

That's now 3 times I have heard the blue rinse crowd comment in the last month...and you used it twice.

More nonsense maestro. The misallocated resources of this great province are not the consequence of 13 years of mild leftist administration in the last 106 years and you know it. What's wrong with this province and this country is what's right about places like Scandinavia where the ordinary people vote for their own self-interest and not who the folks with the big wallets tell them to do.

The sad part of the deal is that I think you're smart enough to know this and actually become a decent person. Instead you persist in being a bad joke.

I think even working man has it in him to change but he won't let go the idea that all the people who aren't impressed with his money are out to do him in. Sad.

That's a true enigma, in my view.

As to the blue rinse remark. I guess the truth hurts, eh? Remember the line from the song: 'Ah but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now!'

Which is, in my view, far more reflective of reality than Churchill's old saw about youth and the left.

You mean Robert Sommers. There are, sadly, lots worse crooks than him around today.

yes or No maestro?

Maestro... all those blogs... center of his own attention.

Brainiac:

See you at the rally at the corner Commercial and Nanaimo.

Be there man !!!

G West:

The sad pathetic thing with yourself and the TYEE Leftie Ltd. posse' is that, as Dubya would say " ya'll" think you have a monopoly on virtue that the Leftie party line is the way the truth and the light.

Maybe on paper, but rarely in reality.

Luckily my own schedule allowed me to attend a meeting today at out children's school and look towards planning for the upcoming school year...unpaid totally volunteer. This was followed by a spontaneous extended meeting later. We have a common goal and objective. Call me Leftie lite.

Thanks for the comment re "smart enough", as I've also alluded to that I don't dispute most TYEE bloggers(even Spanky's no B.S. glibness ) are intelligent. After this is where the forks in the road and the "fork u's" start.

I don't even remotely perceive that the majority of BC Gov'ts or the people they represent are heartless amalgam of frontier mentality environmental rapists etc.... whose sole Allah is self -interest...and who only participate in democracy so as to further their individual agendas.

It may have been like that in pre -Begbie days, but we sort of formed a Gov't...and a democratic framework and if the Leftie Ltd. version have been mostly on the outside looking in well maybe that says something about Leftie Ltd.

Leftie Ltd.cannot sell itself to the average Joe and Jane,only rarely , and when we do get the UNfree trial offer,... we wish we could get our money back.

Leftie Ltd. seems to be like King Kanute, in delusional rage against the tide and cursing at every water molecule that dares disagree with them, let alone point out the flaws in their logic etc.

Personal observations based on experience and more so supported by many TYEE blogger comments.

Again that's now 4 ....count em 4 times the blue rinse crowd comment has been made...more of a "pink-o" phenolphthalein pigeonholing test.

PS Yes Sommers was the one...name slipped my mind .

yes or no maestro

you say

You don't think so eh, why don't you go on google earth and take a look at the area in the north east corner of tweedsmuir up to takla lake over to mackenzie and get back to me on that comment.

Ever heard of coal bed methane, do a little homework on what happened to the ranchers in the states then read up on what el gordo has allowed here in b.c. with regards to coal bed methane. Same company btw has been given the rights.

Alberta has a few problems with methane gas coming out of the tap, this gas has SO2 in it.

Good for the kids eh!

53 33 '28.68"N X 125 32'12.27" W

will get you in the ball park, it helps if you have a map of b.c. handy.

If you really want to see what is happening go up there yourself and look at the clearcuts.

you might also want to take a look at an old map of Tweedsmuir (50s)and compare it to todays park.

if campbell really cared about people then you would think he would be doing something to care for the thousands of homeless.

Many of them are there as a direct result of el gordos cut backs from what I have been reading.

This would make him pretty heartless in my opinion!

Ursus:

Yes vs. No???

With respect to the link, it was duly noted that it was originally published almost 2 years ago and is likely based to some degree on a book by the articles' author.

So, the author has summarized some points on a broader topic, assuming what he says is true.

So upon reading the link, the first thing that comes to mind is why , if the ultimate agenda of the U.S. to take over and amalgamate Canada, why go through creation of some silly trans-continental laws etc.?

Simply go for it and invade Canada.

In the comparative context of the Global Village, I never claimed the U.S was perfect and neither is Canada for that matter, but all other things being equal, they, the U.S. are a far better neighbour to have than many other "theoretical" options out there.

The premise that the world's largest undefended border is allegedly evolving into something a bit MORE defended is simply a reflection of the "constant of change" and the pro-active adjustment to the current reality of world events.

We can't even seem to extradite immigrant criminals who take refuge in our "secure" Canadian way of life....nor deal with our own internal societal terrorists via the Justice Industry....so to add a U.S boogeymen to that already long internal list simply creates another Canadian -defined straw man.

The so-called powers listed in the link are more likely to be used in extreme cases , not in any broad and sweeping fashion. Even the "evil" U.S. does not have the resources to nail every potential threat it "may" identify, hence the resources will be expended on concerns that are in the major potential category. The rest is simply fear mongering.

Even history has shown, and the U.S the prime example, that any major Imperialistic initiatives ,especially military, simply creates another unwinnable quasi-Vietnam. Personally, I like the Canadian odds in such a scenario.

Other than that I'd look forward to seeing G West and other 'Lefties Ltd.- istas " wearing their Che Guevarra Limited Edition Kevlar T-shirts and their bandoleers, leading the charge to defend Canada,( after they get in the long line to do the typically Canadian thing make absolutely sure ALL their Gun permits are UPdated and be in total compliance with Bill C-68 IF and when the Yanks attack.

You can't defend Canada without permission , filling out ALL the forms, in both official languages and having all the "i"s dotted and the "t" s crossed. OR let in about 270 million people and then it becomes a Cold War stalemate.

Advice to Ursus: don't sweat it.

yes or no. never mind all the rhetoric which I am unable to finish reading as your style is a little hard to take!

Ursus:

My spouse and I had an interesting work related stint in the U.S. in the late 1980's. We were in the San Francisco area, and my spouse was training a locally based U.S worker.

She, the American, commented on the scenery and the locale,etc. and I noticed the homeless phenomenon then,there in San Fran., 20 years ago... which I hadn't seen that phenomenon before, except one local individual who became rather well known, but certainly not a threat to anyone. (Our local homeless person then apparently had a family tragedy and it was apparently his re-active choice to live that way).

Sorry, but the homeless issue we saw in San Fran was under a fairly liberal U.S City regime...but I won't translate it into blame game down there.

However,....Blaming Gordo up here is not a direct correlation. In my view especially the " we're for the little guy" NDP were in office for two terms, and Vancouver also had an NDP friendly COPE council since then , and YET in typical NDP Leftie Ltd. fashion F'd up a golden opportunity with the WoodWard's
site to secure social housing which would have been a perfect and positive fit for the area ,and possibly even serve as a model of how to do it right.

Of course, like usual, conveniently forgotten.

Sorry dude, pack that Gordo straw man up..its raining out . Lefties seem to seed problems that others are ultimately solely blamed for.

PS yes we have donated to the food bank...even hand - picked for them.

Ursus:

Sorry

I don't sign blank cheques on the subjectivity- pigeonholing account...if you really knew my style you'd see that.

How about both YES and NO...which implies a hung jury on the pros and cons, given a lot of the details are missing.

gordo has been in power long enough to have either helped or screwed the homeless, he has obviously chosen the latter, if it was the ndp in power you would have blamed them I am sure.

The woodwards deal had a lot of opposition from some pretty powerful right wingers as I recall including gordo.

maestro:
You realize you're keeping me away from a much more interesting debate on the Glavin thread. Very quickly, then.

1. I don't think Socreds and BC Liberals (although I think some former Progressive Conservatives did) get into politics to help people. My experience with them - and the vast majority of them are lawyers - is that they get in to take a stab at helping and facilitating their 'friends' and, as much as possible, to keep taxes down.
2. I think that when the economy is buoyant that there are sometimes some extra crumbs on the table after the 'friends' have finished gorging themselves.
3. If the NHL can see the value of a salary cap and a redistribution draft as well as a mechanism to try and make small market teams competitive then I can't understand why the finance departments of our various governments aren't as open-minded and sensible about our fellow citizens. It certainly seems to work in Denmark, which is, according to the UN, the happiest place in the world just now.
4. In places like Saskatchewan and Manitoba where there is a tradition of socialist government (and where: Sask.) I've lived long enough to know what I'm talking about they have a more egalitarian and fairer society than we do here in BC. Same's true of Quebec - where I've also lived - not so much Ontario though. And Alberta - where I've also spent some time - well it's a lot worse than good old BC.
5. So, I draw my practical conclusions, but, one thing I'll add in a friendly and clarifying fashion:

The United States, for all the criticism I've heaped on its 'administration' (not its people mind you) has managed to address the problem of homelessness and extreme poverty as well as and often better than we have here in Canada. One reason, the earned Income tax credit - paid out as a monthly income top up - and a sensible and extensive program of building new homes for people who need decent supported housing. Many of which contain housing for a variety of economic classes and categories of people – surprise, surprise. If they could only find a way to get them all decent health care now – sigh.

Your suggesting that the left caused these problems is, plainly (and you know it too) nonsense.

Like I said, if you want a sane discussion you know how to start one. If you wanna do stand up comedy - I'm outta here.

Right on, ursus. Well said.

maestro is conveniently forgetting that the UN condemned the Campbell government for its ruthless cuts to BC's social programs. Of all the provinces in Canada they singled out BC alone for the Campbell government's devastating effects on the lives of women and children.

The UN committee was also concerned about the serious effects of drastic cuts to legal aid, welfare, Aboriginal and women's services, domestic violence services and other support for women.

Not to mention that the Campbell government was also condemned by the UN for violating workers' human rights by contravening international labour standards that as members of a Canadian government they are supposed to uphold.

Maestro There is no need to

Maestro There is no need to invade us since we capitulate so easily.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Yates/steven23.htm

If there’s anything you can take to the bank, this “harmonizing” process is not about, e.g., increasing food and drug safety for the people; it is about making life easier (and profits fatter) for the superelite CEOs in leviathan-sized food and pharmaceutical corporations—wired to leviathan-sized governments through public-private partnerships. What is likely is that food safety will go down, and consumers’ choices of, say, dietary supplements over expensive, poorly tested and therefore possibly hazardous pharmaceuticals will begin to be restricted. Major globalists, we ought to note, are well connected to the multibillion dollar pharmaceutical industry. Rummy owns over $5 million in stock in Gilead Sciences, the company that developed Tamiflu® and sold it to Roche, the pharmaceuticals giant. George Schulz owns more than $7 million in Gilead Sciences stock and unlike Rummy, actually sits on the company’s board. At one time, the concept conflict of interest would have applied. Today, those in the transnational globalist class do as they please, unencumbered by considerations of ethics, law, or Constitution.

When confronted, shills for the power elite (including on the SPP website, which for the past several weeks has sported a disinformational “Myths and Facts” section) insist that its goals are benign. They just want to increase the prosperity of the three nations so as to better compete with the booming economies of China and India, as well as the European Union, while also ensuring the safety of our peoples in an age of terrorism. The sovereignty and independence of Canada, Mexico and the U.S., they insist, will be respected.

But if the superelites of the three nations have the populations’ best interests in mind, then why the secrecy? Why have the agendas (and memberships) of the various working groups of the SPP been kept out of sight, not even available on the SPP website? Why does the latter’s “Myths and Facts” describe the SPP as only a “dialogue” between the leadership of the three nations when it is clearly much more than that? Why has it been necessary to invoke the Freedom of Information Act to penetrate the wall of secrecy?

Geri Wood, SPP Secretary, told Jerome R. Corsi that the working groups did not want to be “distracted by answering calls from the public.”

What incredible arrogance!

ineresting

ineresting site.

http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas.bunkahle/defaulte.htm

Lefties Ltd. et al

(Less than Leftie and Leftie Lite are excused for recess).

Re Gordo and homeless etc.

I see Ms. Carol James , NDP leader,perhaps taking the party into a new transition/ transformation and I do wish her well. Other than a few bad moves, I am still giving her a chance.

The overall "left" can serve a very useful purpose, in perhaps the conscience or assisting in quality control and keeping others honest. Call it a devil's advocate approach.

However, when that GOLDEN moment arrives. the qausi -lottery ticket aka a Leftie Ltd. election victory and the democratic process declares they have the keys to Gov't ,....they seem to continually drive on the crosswalk, in reverse gear, and run Gov't like Stevie Wonder taking his first driving lesson.

Hope springs eternal...but often patterns emerge, and I see the Leftie Ltd in BC on par with the disgraced Federal Liberal regime, catering to special interest groups , returning favours,... and what's even worse MISSED OPPORTUNITIES...that would actually give them credibility to support the false hope they often dangle. aka Competition is good even in politics ..."right" ... err "correct" Lefties?

I can vividly recall the WoodWards chain closure,in the early 1990's attending the sales, the BC economy was on a downward trend, and having also walked the decrepit area around the old WoodWards building.

HOWEVER All the stars had aligned , the property could have been expropriated, or negotiated mutually beneficial deals cut,.. ALL stakeholders become part of the solution, in an area where it appears the choice will now be clean up via gentrification and displacement.

Sorry, ursus et al, the NDP "lefties" were certainly more interested in Millenium lines and fast floating beer cans....billions of dollars..." Brother Mike, Glen , Ujjal can you spare a dime for your OTHER constituents" ???

Unfortunately lost opps don't often repeat /sequel.Thats; why they are called LOST .

Again, its raining out...bring in the straw man..you simply cannot deny the lost opp. in a ripe time. That's why the Left CONTINUALLY looses even credibility in the so - called political and democratic "conscience niche"....and why many of us have big concerns when they do get in via the usual protest vote ....and not via merit aka " Let's see , how can Leftie Ltd. top the LAST phuque- up " ?

Now we see another downtown east side hotel in the paper in the same process..There is always a phyrric moment in which way the dominos will ultimately fall.

Again a lost opp. by the Leftie gods.

Truly sad.

"Nana"

Re Capitulation et al

For the record...

I think we all have to agree we each have have our own individual tolerance point when we are pushed to a certain degree.

Now are YOU and the others sitting down??

Maestro (and I am sure many others on the Non Leftie Ltd. side) will be more than willing to join the underground resistance movement if and when any invasion by any hostile force takes away what we hold dearly or affects our loved ones. I am already forming strategies...

However, one aspect of a cold war is the toll that sheer dread, fear and loathing takes and actually leaves one more vulnerable. Terrorists use this as well.

The lessons of history often lay out the future and if we learn from them we are that much further ahead,...knowledge is power ...and forewarned = forearmed.

I could probably make a postulation that Walt Disney was the Anti-Christ, based on many loose ends tied together, including a past comment by an Americna executive that the U.S. exports its culture (and thus insidiously brainwashed the world with Americana ...ripe for takeover?). Maybe that's "Goofy" ..maybe its not...but there is some thing to think about.

I think there are FAR more internal concerns within Canada to "worry" about aka be concerned about. Let's work on the winnable battles, not theorize of wars that have a very low likelihood of happening, for various reasons especially via history.

Life is too short to worry about potential boogeymen.

Have a good one...should be a sunny weekend..I'll watch my kids do battle at the hockey rink in typical Canadian fashion.

What is truly sad is your continuing wasted effort at stand up comedy. In fact, maestro, your posts are always a few pounds light and several hours (or days) late.

It's all been said before, better, and by the left's own critics.

The privatization of this province’s resources and assets by the current 'Liberal Government' - beginning with BC Rail and continuing with forest lands, BC Health and BC Hydro - to mention just a handful of examples - is the real crime that's going on underneath our noses.

In this sense, the privatization of public assets - in many cases through income trusts (like Telus’s) that are primarily held in the hands of foreigners - won't even be taxed at the ridiculously low rates of corporate tax that Gordon Campbell delivered as his first reward to the sector that bought him into power - they won't be taxed at all.

A far worse crime than all the floating cats on Georgia Strait - and a gift that keeps on taking.

I’d have to say you're hopeless…fiddling while Rome burns and talking about the horse that got away last decade – even as his offspring are even now fleeing the wide-open barn doors. The ones’ with that big sign on them about BC being open for business: Get those curlers in and tighten up your kerchief, it's going to be a long winter.

Alci:

BTW: Sorry for the repeated and unpredictable response delays...

However,...Unlike the continually attempted "closed societal experiment" ad infinitum by Leftie Ltd...attempting to keep certain variables as constants aka ALL of them....or what is really the mostly Lefty Ltd. intellecti artiste' critiquing of the Real World.... some of us actually make deep forays into the REAL world for a variety of reasons, on a daily, if not hourly basis, to experience the REAL World and "the masses of the great FELLOW/PEER UNwashed " and make our own rational and objective conclusions ......hence the oft delayed responses.

This is all versus the verbatim Leftie Ltd. party line which is becoming like fossilized dinosaur shite...all the while acknowledging the theory that the larger dinosaurs had two brains to control the disconnect. Leftie Ltd. some escaped the dinosaur purge pre global warming theory.

I am myself being currently quasi-disconnected by the TYEE article re Terry Glavin...looks great...and the Leftie Ltd. look like they are losing badly...and the non Leftie Ltd are winning big time. Something called merit versus propoganda and Leftie spiral - logic "which way is up???" etc. condescension. Some of the best blogs are from the epiphanized Ex- Lefties.

Sorry Alci...we'll simply have to agree to disagree. The Leftie Ltd message is simply trying to sell me on the wheel has been re-invented but you can only add so much chrome between elections...

Also sorry to hear about the floating dead cats...I hope they don't stick to or dent Jimmy's boat as Glennochio designs new signs warning others " WARNING: Dead Floating Cats".

PS Say hi to your fellow greek philospoher Hypocrites.

Pretty much what I expected. All sizzle, no steak. And, in the end one gets that overfull but still unsatisfied feeling after reading each of your posts. So be it.

The left will do just fine without you. Too bad the reciprocal probably isn't true.

When power comes to pooling.

Alci quote/s:

" The left will do just fine without you " .

What can I say??? ...GREAT !!!Competition is great.

RE: " Too bad the reciprocal probably isn't true ".

Well I think its pretty damn clear, Alci , we collectively support a system that allows each of us free speech....but Lefties if "left" in charge of the same system would certainly make life a lot easier by simplifying what that free sepeech should be....albeit the Leftie predeliction to the the double dip of (i) bite the hand of the system that supports them and (ii) also continually shite in their own nest.

Really Alci, when the Leftie Ltd. own "gods" not only fail their fans/cult members ,( besides the rest of us ) and continue to fail it's own fans/cult members(besides the rest of us)....you not only support the premise, the premise is FURTHER embellished that the Leftie Ltd. should remain in electoral purgatory.

The Leftie cult members can't even debate specific examples like WoodWards I mentioned above...the truth hurts don't it...PUHLEEZE!!! quit the straw man BullSh*te.

PS While you (ie Lefties Ltd.-istas) are all out doing just fine....Send me a post card from that desert island stuffed in a bottle...and say hi to Gilligan and the Skipper.....try to go easy on "wealthy" Mr. and Mrs. Howell though .

One more thing...bring a copy of "Lord of the Flies" with ya...maybe even " Animal Farm".

Lots of rhetoric, repetition, off-topic stuff blowing in the wind: How many have sent off well-worded, hand-written letters to all the Govt. people who attended the Security/Prosperity Forum?

Maybe we'll see some of their dodgy answers posted here?

aorangi -
don't hold your breath - they didn't answer mine.

maestro:
Double dip? DO you still carry a rat-tail comb in your back pocket?

Sounds like a kind of 1950s sock hop phrase or were you meaning what the BCLiberal Basi/Virk gang were up to?

When are those guys actually going to appear in court?

Why do you continually shoot yourself in the foot like that? It just can't be that much fun.

Nana:
you out there?

You might be interested in this site:
http://thinkprogress.org/abramoff

Lots more there besides abramoff too.

G West:

aka "All seeing god of cyber space..."

aka Charter member of the pink-0 rinse crowd

It's been almost 12 hours since you mentioned Ron.....please adjust your programming.

NOTE to TYEE EDITOR:

I think it is highly INappropriate that G West use the TYEE for their own personal gain and attempt to sequester a date with Nana. Poor Nana would probably fall asleep while G West puts on his Che Guevarra T shirt and reads from his Funk and Wagnall's from A to Z...including each abridged version. G West would probably insist they go Dutch as well, cheap commmie B*stard.

That is a slight improvement maestro; but, you're still not ready for prime time.

How long did it take you to come up with the 'pinko-rinse'idea?

I have missed Ron though. He's almost as easy a target as you.

G West:

Thanks Teach'..I guess the grade you previously gave me goes from an "A" to an "A+".

Answer re: Pink-O rin$e???
It didn't take very long at all...actually it came the day BEFORE the day before you used the blue rinse comment. Also , to some degree, call it pre-emptive /pre-meditated profiling in response to your pre - medicated blogs.

PS .....don't fight the tide (...but harness the energy instead and $$$ell it !!! )

I am still waiting for the Tyee cyber god's "Sustainability" definition...oh its in the mail...I see.

"Peace bro" (cc)

G West

For the record "double dip" was used in the nouveau context as words and terms evolve...the double dip you refer to was certainly before my time...ok "23 skidoo"?

Double -dip term I use often refers to parties who cleverly access a middle ground with feet in two or more camps and sequester personal gain from each .

Usually refers to the public sector where parties "accidentally" purposely place themselves in such a situation.

In the Private sector usually not applicable...

Davey boy would be a prime example...to my knowledge he dips into BOTH (i) his ex BC premiers/MLA's pension and (ii) his ex MP's pension
given his professional career -politician status.

NOTE: Likely wears a sackcloth as he and others like him cash the secured cheques with the Brinks truck waiting.

REMEMBER follow the money...especially with their types.

End of today's lesson.

maestro
I can see you have not even a passing familiarity with the tax system in this country.

Apart from an additional deduction for all persons over a certain age, pension income is taxable at the same progressive rates as all other earned income - except for capital gains, dividends and the other breaks that the corporate, professional and managerial class can avail themselves of - that's the only double dipping (and I wouldn't call it that, I'd call it corporate welfare and incipient theft of public resources) that has an meaningful effect upon the economic well-being of the average taxpayer in this country.

Dave Barrett is not double dipping in any way relative to his earned pension income. He is statutorily and contractually entitled to whatever payments his public service has entitled him to. Period. You may recall that Preston Manning (of the sack cloth and ashes) who had: decried the idea that the leader of the opposition should have an ‘official residence’ actually decided to live there and, although he and his “Reformers” (there’s a laugh) refused to take their MP pensions for a time they soon repented of their ways and changed that policy too.

The types who need following are the sorts of fellows Paul Krugman was talking about in his column yesterday in the New York Times. Unfortunately it’s behind subscription.

I'm busy now, but if you're back from the hairdresser later I'll post it for you. I'll assign further homework then.

peace

G'ster

Much like you deftly avoid the points , or simply tap dance in cyber space tangents...I am starting to believe you did survive that Kootenay snowslide into the lake...hence your soon- to -be exposed secret identity. However, all is not lost, Herr "he" left quite an inheritance to the surviving offspring spawn...I'm sure you'll look at all that filthy lucre and donate it (drumroll) ....to yourself.

Hairdresser???
c'mon...you know in my neck of the woods its called a BARBER, which we access with our 4 X 4 pick-up trucks ,our gun racks fully- loaded with fully - loaded guns...

Did ya load up on Quiche at the Bellingham Costco ??? I heard ya got in quite a scrap with the J.W's ....especially that one that married Elvis' daughter.

BTW....sorry I think even in -utero parties are aware of the taxable income re: pensions....Private parties respond to the given rules(which never seems to stop the Lefties from another "double dipping" and criticizing the Private parties for simply applying pre-drafted rules the Lefties have no hesitation in creating to solve all problems (ie TAX TAX TAX...SPEND SPEND SPEND) ...

Davey boy etc. and other Leftie Ltd career protestors simply access another one of the 3 certainties in life..(i) DEATH (ii) TAXES and secured (iii)SAFE/SECURE PUBLIC SECTOR PENSIONS. Davey pays taxes??? ..sure...but based on the "gross" which leaves one nice " net" ...COLA clauses and many other perks.

Leftie Ltd. is a nice gig...the rest is often risky business.

Thanks for that G West, isn't it amazing what a "bad apple" can do with lots of help.

Somebody brought up the question of whether there were civilian internment camps in the US. Here's the answer.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/concentration.html

It's been a long standing policy.

Nana: Thought you might like to see this one too:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday

Alci That was a powerful piece, but I don't know that I should thank you for it. I can handle text, but the sight of those beautiful young men and knowing one of them is dead has really brought me down.

That's always a problem for those of us who are parents, especially.
I know what you mean.

By the way, some of us are trying to get another place set up where there isn't so much 'flak' flying around.

Send me an email if you want more information

You might find it interesting!

Quote:To those dwindling

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/211006Takeover.htm

Thanks for the invitation Alci but I don't think this is the time for it.

you might be surprised - coyote and I have been trying to get you to check this out for quite a while.

Take a minute and drop me a line - no pressure.

I found the surprise. I'll stay in touch through it, but now that I've healed I need to be outside doing things and not sitting at the computer so much.

okeydoak! Be well.