No - I believe he has just become a better actor and will bend himself into any image to get into power.
I agree with the above post and the CBC issue and failure to accept numerous invitations to do the same thing Martin and Layton have done and accept questions from the audience.

So many questions to ask especially about Foreign Policy. Rick Salutin is the only reporter that has mentioned it in his a column in the Globe and Mail a couple of days ago.

Also a Washington Neocon paper keenly interested in our election had an article called "Morning in Canada?" (you can google that to read it) in the last paragraph they say the table is set for Stephen Harper and if he wins he could change the course of Canadian policy and North American politics.

Also Stockwell Day was on Israel radio saying if Harper wins Canada will finally be a staunch ally to Israel. What effect will this have on our country and what exactly does he mean by that? but the press is keeping it quiet. Why?

all three of these leaders leave much to be desired. given my druthers, i'd love to vote for "bill nye the science guy"

Has Paul Martin changed? Is he going to keep running an incompetent government by stealing our money?

Has Jack Layton changed? Is he still a millionare socialist?

I like the Bill Nye idea for leader.

My election advice: understand your neighbourhood, and vote for YOUR candidate not the leader. Vote with your heart, not your head.

I feel bad for the people of Vancouver Centre & Vancouver East, who have three universally horrible candidates to choose from.

Just wait until they form government and the muzzles come off. The social conservatives in Canada have been waiting for this for years. You think they will be able to contain themselves after an election win? I believe that the Stockwell Days will ensure this Conservative government to be a one term government at best.

"They have also sent him to the back of the Conservative jet to joke and chat with reporters, a move that appears to have made him more acceptable to the national press corps. So far, as the news media have feasted on the hobbling Liberal campaign, Harper's pronouncements have been reported largely at face value."

I think this is the real story of the campaign. The MSM has largely given Harper and his conservatives a free ride. I mean who knew it was so easy? Crack some jokes with the press, smile for the cameras, moderate your message and soon they'll be talking about your amazing transformation instead of the issues.

Of course, the liberal campaign has helped. Martin has know one but himself to blame (and perhaps his handlers) for their misfortunes this campaign.

All this reminds me of when the BC Liberals (even their name is a lie) repackaged themselves and their Leader and ended up with all but 2 seats in the Leg. As one who has (barely) survived the last few years of a provincial right wing gov't, a national conservative gov't is a truly scary thought. Gordon Campbell hid his agenda, and Stephen Harper is hiding his. If the Conservatives win a majority, it's going to get ugly for the next few years.

In my riding and more specifically my town of Squamish our so-called all-candidates meeting has beened turned into a cynical sham! "No questions will be allowed from the floor, but can be made via the moderator..."(prominent local citizen who owns car dealership)
Gee if all we can do is mail in our questions WHY EVEN BOTHER HAVING A PUBLIC MEETING!!!!!
Furthermore a so-called 'representative community panel' seemingly will screen submitted questions. Who picked this panel and what criteria will they employ?
You better believe I'll be listening real close for cherry-picked questions to favor the conservative candidate.
Sounds like someone doesn't want ordinary citizens to ask open, unfiltered questions.
Welcome to the conservative new era!!

The reality is that the Liberals have had such a hold on Canadian politics, for so long, that theirs becomes the formula for getting elected, used by ALL parties still.

As much as the Conservatives are sounding like Liberals, no less do the NDP and even the Greens. It's one of those measures of the limitations to current FTP capitalist democracy. And it's the measure of the degree to which post war "liberal-capitalist" values have been applied and maintained throughout the ideas system of capitalism. Though there is clearly an effort underway, and increasingly successfully, with the drift to the right of ALL parties of recent years, to lead us and the "acceptable ideas set" in the direction of those neoconservative values compatible with those of The Empire to the South, and of our own corporate ruling class which is drawn towards it like ducks to water.

Indeed, much of the empirical social evidence is that we have been living through a "transition period" within status quo capitalism, since the late 1970s, only now with the slow but near sure implosion of the Liberals and the steady but equally near sure ascendancy of the Conservatives, matters appear to be arriving at qualitatively new levels.

And as in any changing of the guard within an ideas set, here that of the capitalist system set , it is always preferable that the transition at least appear smooth and unbroken, especially in the early going. Mustn't alarm folks too, too much. Maintain the appearance of normalcy until and as the new normal is laid over the old.

And, since the 1970s, the new normal has been more or less successfully applied. Everyone from "official" Labour to the NDP and the Greens, to the population at large, has been stepping into line and adjusting "rightward" appropriately.

The natives are some restless, of course, but nothing clearly outside of manageable limits-, as of yet or as can be immediately forseen.

Except for the significant "disengagement" of a large swath of the population, largely confined to the lower class strata, Order is otherwise being successfully maintained. And the maintenance of "order" is the key during almost any transition. Besides, these lowest class strata are really surplus to the requirements of the new period in any case, and/or merely there as a threat to other elements of the working class, to secure their submission to the New Normal.

They are like the slave who was positioned by authority, to ride into Rome with the great military generals of the time, whilst they were being feted. It was the position of this slave to constantly remind the General that they should beware of Hubris themselves, for they too could quickly find themselves reduced to a slave.

They, the ruling class and its corporatist systems of ideas control have been leading us to here for a long time now, and one must admire the finesse with which it is being achieved. Me, no less than the neoconservative supporters of capitalism.

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but this isn't nearly as comnplicated as this article and these forum posts seem to suggest.

At the end of the day, few voters are keeping score on who's left or right of center.
Winning an election is about acting like a winner. Walking like a winner, talking like a winner and most importantly making the voters feel like winners. Everyone wants to back a winner.
Martin is looking scared, showing weakness and desparation. The stench of death is hard to ignore.
Layton's got it figured out: he's secured his niche and isn't going for the Big Win, which is beyond his means. He understands that this marathon is longer than 1 or 2 election cycles. The spread is huge for the NDP and picking up a few seats will be a major victory.

Harper has won this by keeping on good terms with the press and subtly waiting for the Liberals to implode.

Looking ahead, Harper and his party are going to be the ones with everything to lose. With the Liberals on the ropes, the NDP will have to strike the very second that the iron becomes hot.

It is frightening to think of how many deaths Canadians would have sustained in Iraq by now if Harper had been our leader when he wanted us there with the U.S. How sad to contemplate, with history in mind, where his judgement (and that of his cronies) will probably lead us. How sad that people can be so damned blind until it's too late.

this is unbelievable. every article so far has been about the negatives of the other guy. does the tyee have nothing positive to say about the other parties? gee, i wonder why? amazing what passes for journalism these days. very sad. shameful.

I didn't know Harper refused to go on CBC.

CBC (that means us) own extremely valuable historical footage and intellectual property. Where's that going if Harper gets in? Which friend of theirs will steal it?

Screened questions and refusals to appear just like his the man they idolize, GB.

Plunderers. Teenage boys who never developed past pulling the wings off flys.

The public will never vote for them.

Ask yourselves why the Cons would comission a prominent economist to assess the financial end of their platform but when they present the platform they insert a couple of items. Then have the audcity to tell us that the presented platform is backed by the Conference Board. This is a blatant lie to the people of this country.
They have a hidden agenda. There is no doubt. They are lying to the people, there is no doubt.
And if the people of this country vote them in they will be crying foul for the next five years and they will not be able to stop them from pushing this hidden agenda. We've seen it before in provincial politics.
If you are eligible to vote, get out and vote.

jsinger wrote:

I imagine the author's ommission was deliberate, but jsinger picked up on it. I refer to the great probability that had Stephen Harper been PM we would also have been, today, up to our elbows in the blood of innocent Iraqis in vile complicity with the U.S./U.K. forces in this contrived war - and also shipping home Canadians in body bags.

Harper's sudden gain in popularity is truely frightening. Even here in the Kootenays, where their stellar candidate Zeisman crashed and burned. Some people have stated they want to vote conservative more now that ever, due to Harper's decisive action in dumping Zeisman.

Its amazing how gulible the electroate really is. Put on a goofy cowboy suit,stop talking about your real agenda, and presto, you're a moderate. The people of Canada are going to regret the outcome of this election for generations to come.

Well hopefully everyone has had their hissy fit by now.
I see no new arguments against Mr. Harper that hasn't been repeated a thousand times already on this site, obviously it has had no influence.
The man is middle of the road, nothing about him is radical right wing stuff.
But I guess to those that regularly visit this site are alarmed at anything more conservative than Michael Moore.

hahaha Ron. Good one. Its so hard to tell when you are joking.

I think this election will go down as the single biggest political con job in Canadian electoral history. Canada, hijacked by a bunch of right wing fundamentalist evangelicals. Winston Churchill once said; “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." He was right.

Dale

We'll just have to wait and see what people think after a year or so of brilliant ideas from Harper's band of Mulroneyites, Mullahs, and Stooges.

:)

tks,
rjm

Well with things heating up in Afganistan we will probably be hearing more and more messages of condolence from the PM whether he was a Liberal or CON-job.

Since 911 I have not had any fear at all in terms of our national security. I will be re-visiting those thoughts after the 23rd however.

I'm undecided on the implications of a Harper Government. Virtually everyone I know is currently experiencing loss of bladder control at the prospect. I'm somewhat more continent, thankfully, and can't help feeling a bit of Schadenfreude for the arrogant scolds of social progressivism and identity politics.....that, even though I won't be voting Conservative. Svend simply must be kept off my television screen at all costs...therefore Hedy is getting my strategic vote, I'm afraid.

There's nothing overtly objectionable in the Conservative platform document. The complacent liberal-Left could use a nice bracing turn out in the cold to help it find its soul again (and kill all the fleas). Chretien ran this country like a mafia boss...We never realized what a softy poor Mulroney was!

Nevertheless, even I am not perverse enough to contemplate a Conservative majority without some concern. Too early for that. Either way, what we need is another minority followed by an election in another year and a half. The political dysphoria of the last decade and a half will only be purged if we allow the engine to turn over several times in rapid succession. We need to hit the fastforward button & work this out of our system sooner rather than later.

I'm afraid the best thing is for us to play Italy (or Japan) for a few more years. Hopefully that'll shake all the crooks & nutcases out of Canada's unmonitored, unregulated, mafia-esque political party system.

Having Harper as a PM would be like having a prostitute as a wife. You never know what she is up to. It wasn't that long ago Harper's crew were too "embarrassed" to be Canadian. Now they want to "stand up" for the country they detest. Harper refers to Liberal as "rats". That's the dehumanizing term Hitler used to describe Jews. So I expect those who are Jewish should stand against Harper lest history repeats itself and we see a purge of the unwanted. Take it up with Harper. He's the guy who thinks pension reform is a good idea. That is, after he lifts the ladder behind him.

That Stephen Harper is about to become prime minister should be a surprise to no one who has followed Canadian politics over the past 20 years.

Everyone acknowledges the incredible ethical hole the Liberals have sunk into. The finance minister fell under a deep, deep cloud of suspicion about irregularities on the very eve of the election.

Liberal candidates across the country are being outed for alleged bribery attempts, parachuted candidacies and questionable donations to say nothing about inside agents or double agents tossing wrenches into Paul Martin's gears.

Would you vote for a party like that?

So, what's a primarily right-wing national media to do other than to prop up the only other political party likely to continue granting favours and tax relief to those who can most afford to pay.

The Globe&Mail may have named Ed Broadbent the best politician of the past century, but it ain't enough to propel Jack Layton and his still active (thus dangerous to some), NDP into the Globe's favorite team.

Support by the Globe for the struggling Green Party would do little other than to high-light the fact that a life-long conservative sits at the helm of what is supposed to be the political arm of a world wide environmental movement.

A media endorsement of Harris would only add weight to the argument that Harris is using the party to hurt the left and help his real friends.

So who's the Globe going to support?

It seems pretty easy, even if the Globe has to hold it's nose a bit when contemplating the potential of Stockwell Day projecting Canada's wisdom onto the world or a rabid professor from Calgary, who happens to be a highpowered Conservative strategist ranting about the inferiority if Aboriginals.

Hey, at this stage I'll take heart where I can and offer congratulations to the people of Chile who continued Sunday to distance themselves from the brutal right-wing forces of the past by again electing a Socialist, this time the first woman president.

Canada needs its own South American solution to this capitalist inspired mess we call normal.

"inside agents" wrote Allan. Isn't that what brought down Nixon with Watergate? Where's the press on this one?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if closer to 100% of our population voted. I believe that we would see more minority governments and a more balanced approach. I speculate on the basis of past politics that right wing thinkers follow politics more and are more motivated (money) to vote. There are alot of us who are just trying to hold things together. When people are under alot of stress they tend to pull into themselves and focus close to home. A Federal Election seems along ways away for alot of people.

Eddy Haskel, where is the press?
Good question, but I'd like to know where Jean Chretien and his some of his hangers on are right now.

The "press" appears to be far to absorbed in a coronation process to pay much attention to the background noise as the Liberal Party sinks while some exercize their pay-back time cards.

When we have a media and a culture that can no longer differentiate between advertising (which is what political policy has become now) and the real thing...and that doesn't even bother to question the genuine difference between the two anymore....well, then as Harper is proving...people will just about buy anything.

PeteL, brings up a really good point about the future of our national security if Harper wins this one. In that case, better start removing all those Canadian logos from your back-packs, folks.

and with advertising goes hype...the falsehood of political celebrity.. and an almost orgasmic momentum that the press and our culture now seeks and lives for...

Not just in Iraq. How about here in Canada, too? From a story in the New Yorker last year:
"...the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, a group claiming affiliation with Al Qaeda, sent a bombastic message to the London newspaper 'Al-Quds al-Arabi', avowing responsibility for the train bombings [in Spain]. 'Whose turn will it be next?' the authors taunt. 'Is it Japan, America, Italy, Britain, Saudi Arabia, or Australia?'"
Not on that list was Canada. The list was basically the coalition that went into Iraq or were on-side with the US invasion. Had we gone into Iraq, I'm sure they would have tried to target us at home, too.

Anyone have any idea how Harper's idea for set election dates would work in a minority government that doesn't last a full term? Or has he not thought it out that far (can't believe that would happen!)?

And Ron, if Harper really is "middle of the road", why are you trumpeting him so much? Where's the criticism?

grw, because everyone else took a left turn and crashed.
And we were on a list Osama put out in 2005. Are still so smug and secure ?

Hey come on grw. Everyone knows that Harper is a "moderate" and has "no hidden agenda". Well, he hasn't really said that. The fact is he's not saying, it's the press and his henchmen who say that.

I think Stephen Harper will be a great Prime Minister. I'm happy the way the polls are changing.

For all you chicken-littles: get a grip.

From what I can tell, Osama put us on a list "some time ago". That was probably before Iraq. Still, look at Spain. Look at England. Look at Australia (or at least a place visited mostly by Aussies). The fact is, had we gone to Iraq with the U.S., we probably already would have been targeted. As it is now, we're probably fairly far down the list. Put us lockstep with the U.S. and we most likely move up quite considerably.

What does Harper mean when he refers to "ordinary Canadians". I've never really met any. Perhaps I'm a little sensitive and find the term condescending. What do you think, Ron?

To be fair, Eddy Haskel, most political leaders talk about "ordinary Canadians". I, too, have always hated it. But you can't single Harper out for that.

Whilst I agree with StanM that the greater danger is of a "majority" Conservative government over a minority one, I am still "nearly" as concerned about the creeping neoconservatism within our society, especially as the years go by, as the old capitalism was of "creeping socialism/communism".

But, mostly I agree with Allan above, in a generally good piece of analysis.

The US Empire and the most reactionary neoconservative elements of capitalism need to be "tamed" and "circumscribed", at the very least. And where these homegrown neoconservatives of ours are looking to the Neocon US for inspirational ideas and values, those of us on the left and of a more progressive bent need to be looking more to Latin America right now.

The have seen the pragmatic value of US imperialism being bogged down in Iraq, and have chosen to use this time to move and break with the economically and politically controlling and sovereignty damaging influences of the Empire. They are creating a "leftward moving" critical mass that it will soon be too much for Washington to reverse, or even undo with force of arms. (Especially if it ends up getting its ass whupped in the Middle East.)

And we should be a part of that process ourselves. Certainly even now we need to be working on it, however this corporatist ruling class controlled election turns out.

Because really, given the overall rightward movement of society over the last twenty plus years, whether it is the Liberals or Conservatives in power, in a minority or majority, the trend is wrong-, away from progress in social, class and economic development, and towards increasing economic inequality and classism, and drift towards the smothering blackhole embrace of the Empire . And this will continue to need to be changed regardless of the outcome of this election.

In fact, now that I think about it, I am really more concerned about and focussed on what comes AFTER this election, regardless of who secures what toe holds on power, than the actual election itself, towards which I feel a certain ho-hum fatalism. Which doesn't mean that it is unimportant.

Just that we need to get ahead of this neoconservative period, with greater aggression, rather than always playing catch up with it.

And "aggressiveness" is the key, in my view and life experience. Until then, we are doomed to merely playing second fiddle to this game which they control.

Uh-huh. And I'm told that high-altitude flocks of migrating pigs have been detected by NORAD.....

You know, I think we could survive one Stephen Harper majority. But if we don't learn from:

The privatization of the CBC.
Federal deficits.
Less equalization payments for social programs than we have now.
Growing minority predjudice.
The separation of Quebec and other provinces to follow.
Canadian sons and daughters dying in the Middle east.
People locked up indefinitely and permanently institutionalized.
International spy games.
Religious control.
Tax breaks for the rich and increases in taxes for the poor.
Privatization of healthcare.
Americanized institutions.
A weak canadian dollar during strong commodity values...
Media propaganda to push paper instead of truth.
Worsening environmental damage. (No kyoto)
Getting into bed with U.S. international policies. (et.el. war)
Terrorist attacks.
U.S. values (Everyone gets to own a gun).
More deaths of our sons and daughters in Canada from guns and terrorism.

"Greater conflicts of interest with corporations and institutions..."

The Cons have been blatant in the past with all of this, mentioned above (other than a poor economy). The sad truth of it, is that he has a good perentage of support for these changes... Some of us actually want these changes. And no one expects a bad economy, but you can't have harlets in power without selling their ass and common sense.

If you asked a broker, would they support a Con majority? Sure. They'll get tax reductions for the first term and when the economy tanks in a couple of years, they'll short everything, make more money, and then put the currency in other places. I would.

Stephen Harpers changed? Yah right. And your mother was born on the moon... and your brother is Jesus... and your sister is the planet venus... and pink is everyones favorite color... and we can eat 50 pounds of sugar a day and not get fat...

Excellent post, Coyote

Hehe. My thoughts exactly.

Although as I said above: I wouldn't want to see a majority of any kind at this point.

As for Stephen Harper having potential for greatness, I'll reserve judgment on that. He's too intelligent & deliberating to be a complete disaster, which is encouraging. It's some of the boobs in his party that I'm worried about. I'm amazed Harper has been able to get them to keep their traps shut throughout this whole campaign. They've also weeded out a few of the worst ones, so that must help.

Isn't it interesting how inconspicuous Stockwell Day has been throughout this campaign? That man is such a liability, and still seems prominent within the party, that I'm surprised the oppenents haven't made political capital out of his lingering influence.

It doesn't matter about Day el al because best sources indicate that Harper has a problem working with others. Anyone remember Stronach?

But that's exactly it, Nightbloom. The leader isn't all that important. He's got to answer to the people who put him there. The Conservatives may put a reasonable face on their party, but that face knows that if he loses support from the religious right and other extreme factions of his party, he's toast. That's why I always say forget about the party leader, forget about the individual candidates and vote philosophically.

Sure, and neither neocon or nightbloom were at all worried when it looked as if the NDP might win the provincial election.

I remember quite a few comments about parts of the sky falling into the Georgia Strait back then in the Tyee comments sections.

If Stephen Harper should become Prime Minister this will be the first time we would have someone who doesn't like Canada in this position.

Harper and Ducette both have the same vision for the country.

grw, Osama put us on his list last year. It's got nothing to due with Iraq.
Canada is in Afghanistan, the Liberals sent them there. I am happy they did, but none of this has anything to do with the Con.
I don't know how someone like Mr. Harper can defend himself from things he never said.
Or is there thought police out there somewhere ?
And Eddy, what ever happened to Belinda. I here she is losing in her riding. Maybe she will join the NDP next, want her ?

Wow, lot's of heaving breathing going on here...relax, people. The first thing that Stephen Harper's going to do when he slides into the PM's chair is start to wonder what he can do to hang onto it. It certainly won't be loosing the wingnuts and whackos in the party on the Canadian population.

Brain - wrong on just about every count.....

Harper's cabinet is full of loonies and he will allow free votes in the house, a majority will roll Canada back into the dark ages,

Anyway check out Harpers new cabinet , Ron Erwin's dream cabinet.

http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/2006/01/conservative-cabinet-revealed_09.html

Stockwell just got sued from a group because he made the baseless accusation that they support Hamas, this is not the first time around for Stockwell, he cost the Alberta gov over 800,000 in court costs when he made fun of a lawyer who represented a pedophile.

Anyway check out the cabinet.

I agree, only we ain't going to get it with milquetoast appeals to the public like the words uttered by Jack Layton today: "Vote for us this one time only."

Just waiting to hear his "pretty, pretty, please" on the end.

Certainly not words to inspire or gather your forces behind...somehow I don't think that's quite how that would have been said in South America.

Will the real Steven stand up

I quote
"
"Withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan... Collect our own revenue from personal income tax... Resume provincial responsibility for health-care policy. If Ottawa objects to provincial policy, fight in the courts... [E]ach province should raise its own revenue for health... It is imperative to take the initiative, to build firewalls around Alberta... "

- Stephen Harper in an "Open letter to Ralph Klein," January 24th 2001.

Check out this link and forward it to the MSM

http://www.intheirownwords.ca/harper.php

"That's why I always say forget about the party leader, forget about the individual candidates and vote philosophically."

Listen to the sound of the clock. Tick, tock, tick, tock. As you drift deeper and deeper into a deep sound sleep. Your mind is becoming heavy and shutting down. You just want to sleep, sleep, sleep.

Frank - What are you talking about?

Are you sure you're not thinking of the recent civic elections?

Did anyone get a cheque in the mail today from The Govt. of Canada for some kind of heating rebate ? Last week before the election.
I know someone who got $250.00 today.
Funny I saw Rick Mercer write in the Globe and Mail this weekend that he thought Steven was a great guy.

Sturt - I think I've got it now. Harper's only going to allow the negative things about his policy to occur.....who'd a thunk it???

Very clever of you to suss that out.

I dont think Osama has ever put us on a list, he simply pointed to all the coalition countries assisting Geroge Bush. I beleive it was last August that the Liberals made the shift from non-coalition peacekeepers, to combat role coalition soldiers.

The media then ran with that, failing to point to the fact that it was actually the coalition association being used as the basis to infer a specific targeting.

btw, it went against the will of the people too.

correct me if I'm wrong.

tks,
rjm

wrong. he specifically named canada as an enemy.

where? when? quote specific source and statement pls.

tks,
rjm

Hey Ronnie, beware , be very scared.

Osama only will attack fundamentalist Christian areas, because he's a fundamentalist Muslim, Only Alberta and the Fraser Valley are at risk, and other pockets of fundamentalist. Who trained Osama anyway, what a pest. I can hear it now with Harper

Attention all citizens of Abbotsford and surrounding area.

We have an orange Alert , did you hear me an orange alert.

yeah, like i have the source in front of me. where you been? it was several years ago in a recorded statement. canada was named along with several other countries.

various media organizations provide texts of Osama Bin Laden's statements. I have never seen any reference to Canada, good or bad.

here is but one example, and once again, no reference to Canada.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

tks,
rjm

Are you sure you're not thinking of the recent civic elections?

Actually nightbloom I don't have a clue who you voted for provincially. My point was that neocon called those who would be less than thrilled by Harper, "Chicken-littles" and assured us the sky wasn't falling.

I simply wished to remind him that if you go back to the Tyee archives circa April-May last year you will find lots of "chicken-little" predictions from the right about the possibility of the world coming to an end if James was elected.

I included you in my response because you said you agreed with him. That's all

Stuart, you are disgusting, if you talked about anyone else the way you just talked about Christians, you would be vilified by even your few friends.
This is enjoyable however, reading these posts have been very entertaining for me. I'm sure it will get better as the week goes on.
The left has nothing original to say against Mr. Harper, just more links to flaky left wing websites.
Why not try Angry in the Great White North or Small Dead Animals.
You must be sick of moveon.org by now.
Please lets here lots of goofy stuff this week because you will drop out of site with embarrassment on Jan.23.

Really, Ron? His own speeches and writings bely that, don't they?

Mr. Erwin,

I am noticing you don't seem to have any evidence of Mr. Bin Laden threatening Canada either.

Do you then retract your statement?

tks,
rjm

Anyone not scared of harper's love for the bush administration check out this link:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011606Y.shtml

(I don't know how to make a direct link like the one above-sorry)

rjm, I don't have time right now to dig up this statement, but I will later. It did happen.
Working Man, you are probably not surprised by my lack of concern for Mr. Harper's previous statements, I agree with them..
And apparently millions of other Canadians do as well.
It's not like this is all some big surprise to anyone.

rjm hasn't seen it, so it must not have happened.

- Stephen Harper, speech

Sadly, or should I say happily for the Liberals, Harper and his cronies will screw up once they become elected. Just as Muylroney was as crooked as a three dollar bill and Joe "who' Clark has become the national windbag, Harper is bound to screw up. Why?

Too many political debts to pay off, too many right-wing wingnuts to satisfy. Our only hope is a minority government, as a Harper majority will move too quickly, too brashly alienating almost everyone.

The Liberals are 'deadmen walking' and the NDP too weak, too trapped in 1890's class warfare, to accomplish anything.

I'm still voting Green, because I do not like any of them at all!

Mr. Erwin and Mr. Elliot

You seem to be operating at a level where you presume that I trust you. The fact is... I don't.

If you can't provide evidence of your claims, you should retract them. If you think you can win any valid debate by inserting wild and unsubstantiated runours, then you obviously need the practice and as such should think again.

I'm certainly not inferring that I never miss anything but one would think that an assertion as important as to be used as a basis for our participation in war should have its own basis in reality.

tks,
rjm

Grumpy, you are, in my opinion, the most astute commentator on this board. I almost welcome a minority Reform government for the comic effect, which would also uncover their religious fanatic platform. A majority, which is unlikely, would lead to a real whirly-gig and tons of street protests which no politician wants.

Here is an example we can look forward to if Herr Harper forms a government:

."

- Canadian Alliance MP Larry Spencer speaking

Just waiting to hear his "pretty, pretty, please" on the end." Lynn.

I don't know, I intend to vote NDP for purely "strategic" reasons, but am I (and apparently Lynn) the only ones that finds the NDP approach to this election... I hate to say it. ...but "pathetic"?

These guys are like taking a soft-on to an orgy.

Certainly it has dispelled all remnant images of that old gutsy firebrand, Tommy Douglas, right out of my head. These guys need to reach down into themselves and find their... their ... I don't know. They just don't have it at all anymore.

All the charisma and vision of over cooked noodles. No "el dente". :-)

Best I could do without getting just downright insulting.

A vote for millionaire, private medicine Layton is a vote for Herr Harper and you know it.

Yea a Harper minority would be fun to watch, I can't wait to see his cabinet.

I give them 8-12 months total if this happens, a few major cuts and you will see massive
protest on all major Canadian cities especially TO, I remember Mike Harris and the days of action gang, we basically shut down all major hwy's into town, those were the days.

a few big protest and and the gov will collapse and no more wing nuts for another 10 yrs

But this will not happen polls are for strippers. These national polls are a joke, if Harper gets 15-16% in Quebec that will not give him one seat. Not one, he will pick up a few maybe in Ont and that's it. All hype by Ronnie's and Elliot's favorite media. Just see my above link to Harper quotes and get the message out, Hey Grumpy , I am going to donate
2 bucks to the green party now go vote NDP and be useful.

I've been of the opinion for many years that these polls shouldn't be permitted during election campaigns. If the governments don't permit the publishing of the Eastern vote before our polls close, why do they permit these jerks to create a bandwagon hysteria, going on every day, for weeks, leading to the last, blanked out day?

Typical political double standards and idiocy. I have no problem with the election day blackout, but it should start 2 months before.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

jsinger - Why do you and most people assume that its too late for Canada to go to Iraq - once Mr. Harper is "ruling" ? Dubya needs new coalition allies - since the rest are leaving - and the Americans clearly plan to be there for years yet. After all, Harper seems perfectly willing to open other issues we all thought were closed. I'm sure the media will think to ask the Cons ask their position on this - ya right

I have been following the news very closely during the last month, and I have yet to see any media interest in the vast gulf between what Harper has been saying for the last 6 weeks and what he has been promulgating for the last 20 years.

Will Canada wake up on January 24th with its first Prime Minister who actually dislikes his own country?

Should be interesting to hear what Thompson, Day et al. say when the gags are untied. What a splendid cabinet the Cons. will have.

You can fool some people some of the time, Steve.

..for all those Lefties still left out there...and also those small l-liberal disgusted with the Liberals, here is a chance to put your ass on the line...just like the 'right' has done ...we need a collection of lefty writers from across the country to collaborate - not informally- as has been the case during the past years...but formally---to form an organization of writers, intellectuals on the Left...to "write", to advocate, to push for ...a social progressive agenda...that includes when the moment is right....a dire need for a constitutional constituent assembly' ...as I have many times mentioned. Who will join in...who is interested in this?

I'm sure there's a message in there somewhere, but you got me.

As for a Conservative minority government, I'm still waiting for an answer on what would happen if Harper keeps his promise to Americanize our system with set election dates every four years? Obviously that would fly out the window in a minority. But how would it work, I wonder.

As to Erwin and Elliott, the onus is on you to come up with proof of Osama calling Canada out. It wouldn't take long in today's electronic age to find that quote somewhere. Ron says he has no time (although he sure has enough time to post nonsensical ramblings here for hours on end).

I supplied quotes above from an Al Qaeda off-shoot group about the countries they might target, and Canada wasn't in it. And I also drew the conclusion that since the countries that have been hit were in Iraq fighting, and we haven't been in Iraq fighting and haven't been hit, that maybe my list is correct and your non-list isn't.

And since when is the British newspaper the Observer Guardian in England just another left-wing link? Sure, it's a liberal paper, but it's hardly just making things up.

grw, On Nov.14/02 Osama said "What caused your governments to join America in attacking us in Afghanistan ? I mention in PARTICULAR, Britain, France,Italy, Germany, Canada and Australia. " Google it on ctv.ca, I found a few more but what's the point. There is no Santa Claus !
Black, Did Lincoln love his country when he took it over and had to deal with a civil war and slavery ?
What a hollow argument this 'love Canada' thing is.

Fiat, ban poll information from the public ? Please don't shoot the messenger.

Stuart, we have to do more to protect minorities like you.

If I can be of use Peter, let me know. I don't have quite the stamina of bygone days, but I can scribble a line or two. More, if the situation and the opportunities are really there. (You have my email address.)

Good luck with this.

This certainly has been one of the most biased media's overall, in election history. It's all about selling paper, and pushing corporate agenda's. Large corporations so love weak majority governments.

It's like... the media wants to profit on misery and failure to such an extent, that they are willing to promote it at all costs. When I see newspapers like the Globe and mail offer support for the Conservatives... or any newspaper for that matter, offer support either way to any party... people trust the media to some levels and degree's here. Its a major conflict of interest. Its shameful to know that the media is that partial, that biased, and that dangerously persuasive.

Whatever happened to the good old days when honest media would report the facts? You know... reporting the impartial truth? When was the last time anyone read a story that made them all look bad? It's the same old same O... fleeting power and elected success built on the counterparts failure. What a recipe for disaster.

This talk of the CBC being gone under a Harper majority government is for real. People laugh at how foolish the Cons would be if they got a majority... thing is, foolish majorities can do so much damage by the time 4 years is over, that... its a bummer to think about it, and the questions to ask after all of the fallout is, "who wanted it, who caused it, and what will it take to heal the damage?"

We all know that those who are a part of the problem, most certainly won't be a part of the solution, and they'll be waiting to try it again, if left uncontested. That much is guaranteed.

I'm in, Peter, if you'll have me.

Erwin: Are you comparing present-day Canada with the antebellum US?

Pathetic.

Count me in, Peter. You know me well enough.

Ed Deak.

I could not find that specific article, you will have to provide a link.

tks,
rjm

Peter Dimitrov proposes:

Peter, while your proposal sounds good on the surface, I would like to alter it somewhat. I say, forget about left or right. Before left, right, green, indifferent, or whatever political stripe can adequately contest elections, we need an electoral process that works. FPTP is a useless system.

Let's join together to advocate for electoral reform in the form of some kind of PR. Then, once we've achieved that, we can go our separate ways and start advocating for left, right or green.

The reality is, Canada is already committed to helping the US in Iraq, and it is the Liberals who put us in harms way. We are there in the Gulf doing interdiction duty for US Imperialism with our Navy, freeing up their treasure, ships and manpower to focus on Iraq. And we are there for The Empire, on the wars "Second Front" in Afghanistan, as that war begins to resurge and evolve towards Iraq proportions. And our forces are already taking growing levels of hits for US imperialism.

Additionally, the rumours have been there in the media from the beginning of the Iraq front, if you can recall, that we already have "exchange" troops there, attached to US units, even from the opening days of the invasion.

The reality is, though it is still "relatively" low level, we are in fact already playing our classic "Stooge State" role in that part of the world, in the US war for Empire and oil. All Harper really has to do is expand by degree what is already in place-, put there by the Liberals.

And I don't recall hearing any protests from the NDP in parliament or anywhere else either, do you?

Oh, and the Israelis are acting on the "Third Front", against the Palestinian Arabs, on behalf of the State to which they are also beholden for cash, arms, war materiale and underwriting their war debt-, in exchange for The Empire helping guarantee it that they will be allowed to serve as the US prison guards over the Palestinians and hold their land as if it belonged to themselves, European Jewry.

Oh, what a complex web imperialism weaves when it practices to deceive, night wahr?

And thereby all, the Liberals, bowing to their Master's Voice in Washington as well, only modestly less than the Conservatives woould like to, it is that they have already put us in the harms way of Amerika's enemies-, those whom they call "terrorists' Though to most Arabs, they be perceived their patriots.

Which has ever been the way of the world, not? One man's terrorist is anothers patriot.

I, for example, would claim that The Empire is a Terrorist State, with a very long history indeed, of being so.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050718/terroristattacks_questionperiod_050717/20050718/

The above ctv.ca url is from last summer. though there is an inference of threat from al queada, there is no direct evidence presented nor any reference to bin laden.

one would think that if there was the 'smoking gun' that Mr. Erwin and Mr. Elliot keep referring to, that it would have been made reference of.

tks,
rjm

Peter,

That is an interesting idea.

tks,
rjm

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050711/public_safety_050711/20050711/

This from a few weeks earlier where McLellan admits there is no specific threat against Canada.

hmmn...

tks,
rjm

oops, my bad.

it seems Jason Kenny is determined to promote information taken from audotape, claiming to be bin laden including Canada in a list of countries whose participation he is questioning.

It is odd that there is no video or written evidence of this claim, and no subsequent reference to Canada.

Its as if this was a tailor made statement, released once in order to provide extremists with some ammunition to stir up hysteria and fear. probably courtesy of the CIA.

same old same old.

tks,
rjm

grub....I absolutely agree that electoral reform is vital...as a first step to genuine change of the institutions of governance. I personally however am not interested in working with those "who consider themselves part of the neo-con camp and are de facto in support of big Capital and 'deep integrationist policies". Neither can I work with those who might want to do away with a woman's right to choose in matters of abortion - as is tending in the USA. I know which side of the fence, the class line I sit on and it is not the 'privileged' class of elites who run this country or those that collaborate with them as quisling lawyers, bureaucrats, labor leaders, etc.

While I appreciate that they too might aspire to do away with FPTP voting systems...what I am proposing ought to not include those later-mentioned 'folks' ...they have the capability & resources to do their own advocating.

Look, given the impending election of Harper - it will be full speed ahead with deeper harmonization with the USA, ballistic missle defence....even moving towards a 'continental currency. A careful study of Harper's past, Flanigan, and the Calgary School...reveals those guys are intent on restructuring the governance institutions and "Liberal" policies of the Liberals in a major "conservative" way...a revolutionary way....think Newt the Grinch from the USA, google the US conservative movement, concepts like 'unitary executive power', etc.

The Right is very well organized in Canada, they have their intellectuals, their Foundations, their newspapers, media outlets, their lawyers, intellectuals and writers...and they are 'organized', organized...and on the other side...we have much to do. There is a consistent cast of writers who write for the Tyee, and while this is only a 'draft idea', a task is to identify writers/intellectuals from across this province and nation - who will then (a) exchange emails or form a list-serve so that we can collaborate all together...a common front, and then (b) to get the papers and articles out to the public to try and inform the public about the progressive view...translated into various languages, Chinese, Punjabi, Persian, Italian, the various ethnic groups in BC/Canada...have to be educated in a 'popular education' manner, hell, even 'podcasts' for the young. The idea is to create a social movement over time, so that in two years perhaps a national political movement can be created....to either support an existing political party or form a new one - with a prime objective to elect by proportional rep, a gender balanced constitutional constituent assembly, composed of delegates from English Canada, Quebec, and First Nations, to write a new set of 'rules' for Canada, in effect a new constitution, to be approved or rejected directly by the citizens of Canada in a national referendum. Forget the current amending formula, the assertion is that sovereignty vests not in the Provinces and the Executive Branches of Government, of the Crown, but directly in the citizens of this country who have a de jure right to decide the rules under which they wish to be governed. To continue under the current set of rules will imply the utter destruction of Canada and its complete sell-out to, and absorption within the USA.

Right on Brain

All that are CBC fans and it is so important to a big diverse country like ours, can support it by going to friends.ca and sending a msge to the politians to support it

Great idea, Peter. There are a lot of us who think this country is worth fighting for.

Regarding the polls, I agree, they should not be permitted during elections. I think there has been a concerted effort, especially this election, to make the outcome so.... before it really is. To manufacture a momentum (and advertise it through the media ) in order to create the desired outcome, more so than is usually the case, both in the polls and in the media this go-round.

Powerful influential winds blowing from the south, I think. Major storm warning.

Peter, too little, too late. You were warned by me and others that to simply parrot the American Left you would be okay.
How could you have been so lazy, the conservative movement has been on the job for years.
We had our Rush, Sean,NRO Online, need I go on. Maybe I should include buurque newsatch. drudge report, front page magazine.
To simply bitch about the same old shite, as the left has done was fruitless.
There is a new media.
CBS cannot ( CBC ) cannot bully the conservatives around anymore.
You are playing catchup my friend.
The left in the USA put up a channel called Air America. Funded by George Soros a wealthy left wing fanatic, and it has gone into bankruptcy.
The liberal point of view is floundering and to push an agenda of extreme criticism of the right won't work.
I don't know what to tell you, but perhaps you have to get the right to split on ideas.
Maybe you can join the side of the right you feel more comfortable with.
After all, that's the reverse of what I have had to go through before this Renaissance age of freedom and choice.

Ron Erwin,

I have done some looking, in an attempt to verify the statement quoted by Mr. Kenny. I have found a number of transcripts of Bin Laden statements, but none mentioning Canada.

You quote a tape from Nov 14/2002, so far the closest I can find to that is a letter from Nov 24/2002. In the interim I will keep looking, if you find the specific source of that quote, pls let me know.

tks,
rjm

erwin, it rare indeed that I find myself agreeing with you...but in this you are correct "it is too little and too late" for this election....but since I am not quite as pessimistic as yourself, and since I am not a professional politician..."now is the only moment there is" to build for the future...and hopefully, as you say, the 'right' will split...as Harpo sheds his cloak and the Canadian people see him and his party for what they really are.

Ron Erwin

This headline sort of sums it up I think
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/11/13/osamatape021113

If you can provide some evidence of a subsequent verification by any legitimate authorities then we can revisit this.

I think the reasonable conclusion is that Mr. Kenny has far exceeded any legitimate position provided by the clearly questionable evidence.

If the 'tape' was legitimate, why was it not backed up by anything in the Nov 24 letter?

I would remind you and Mr. Kenny both that fear mongering of this sort is a form of terrorism in itself.

tks,
rjm

:)
Ron,
I cant tell you how much I appreciate having had this conversation with you.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1038524483919&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037

tks again,
rjm
:)

gee rjm, you are on a mission aren't you.
Let me summarize.
I fear the thought of being controlled my an Islamist Theocracy.
I would rather be controlled by George Bush.
Do you have any credible alternatives ?

Peter, You really shouldn' refer to me as pessimistic. I wasn't educated that way, and will not accept that shot.
I am using the conservative vehicle to advance my altruistic cause.
I don't want us to go 'too' liberal again.
Give my side a chance.
I mean, if these hillbillies are so backwards, you should be able to profit on thier incompetence.

Good job on your mission rjm.

Actually, it seems that it is Jason Kenny who is on a mission, and a potentially traitorous one at that.

I just like to get to the facts underneath the lies.

I see you have bought into the us or them argument. You have accepted that you must be a slave to one form of theocracy or another.

give me 400 billion dollars a year, I will come up with something.

tks,
rjm

Peter

Have a look at the Canadian Action Party website.
We may be political allies.

Well rjm , you brought it down to the crux of the matter.
Money, US dollars, EU Dollars, Yen ( is there still a yen ? ) meth, Canadian Steamship Line, coke, George Soros, moveon.org, Maude Barlow, General Motors, CIBC, Hells Angels controlling our ports, The Liberal Party of Canada, genetically modified people, Polygamy, The Supreme Court, social engineering, dare I through in Aboriginal Rights, elected Senate, Rick Mercer 1 ton challenge BS, trees as our worst enemy in global warming, Paul Martin is on crystal meth.
Steven has a natural high.

Well, Peter, we would take a serious look at Canada's constitution, analyze it, look at its weaknesses and strengths, and draft a constitution that addresses those weaknesses and strengths with sound, sustainable solutions.

We would also have to take a more serious look at history, look at what the differences are with Quebec and the rest of Canada, look at the why those differences are there, look for similarities, and this (similarities) is our saving grace.

On a lighter side, maybe the Cons will get minority instead, and it'll be easier to defeat fairytale policies. On a darker side... it'll be a war waged by generals seen and unseen, with truths and lies. We'll know the shades of gray in a week.

Its true, what you say. We need to organize, regardless. The cons need to be taken seriously. Its organization, education and good will that built this country. It will be organization, education and good will that will preserve the quality and quantity of all life in this nation for all the generations to come. You've got my support. May I suggest a chat line meeting to begin with?

ok, Ron E. --you're not pessimistic. ...as to giving your side a chance...what 'side' is that? I've read up on the quotes attributed to S. Harper and other Conservatives...there is nothing there for me to agree with....not a shred...and to give that side a chance ...will lead to the dismantlement of the Canada I want to live in, the Canada I want to leave behind as a legacy for our children. If you're a Red Tory, well then, Ron - sorry to say...the Red Tories, indeed the real Tories of the John A. MacDonald variety were not so long ago sold down the river by the likes of Peter McKay, Steven Harper & the Alliance take-over. ...they surely have no voice, no power within the Conservative Party...and it is utterly delusional for any Red Tory, or even a 'Joe Clark Tory" to think so. The S. Harper Conservatives is a new breed of political right wing 'animal' ...with minimal semblance to the old Tory party...more akin in political orientation & philosophy to the hawkish extreme right wingers supporting G. Bush and his theorists of 'unitary executive power'....Indeed as Harper promises to expand the Canadian military, coupled with a impending Quebec "crisis" ...what does that make him them ---well --"Commander in Chief"...just like "G. Bush" and bingo...a Harpo argument for 'unitary executive power' to expand the Prime Minister's already enormous executive powers, that plus his utilization of the Peace, Order & Good Government (POGG) powers to push the Conservative agenda to restructure this country according to Capital and Empire's agenda, or to clamp down in case of 'crisis' over Quebec.

More to the relevant point, indeed as Lynn, Coyote, the Brain and others have stated "This country is worth fighting for"...but looking beyond this election how are we best going to organize ourselves to do that? What does it mean to be a Canadian? What 'institutions' and 'values' can or ought we call "Canadian' as distinct from "American"? How do we define ourselves as progressive Canadians, in both a negative and in a "positive sense"? How do we get beyond the illusionary belief that because we 'blog' and rant about 'matters' that such acts alone are sufficient enough of a strategy or action to save this country from (a) absorption/integration into the US or (b) utter dis-integration from within. The dysfunctional rules/constitution by which we govern ourselves...plus the allegiance of political elites to the sway of continentalist ideas and values, the concentration of the media, and the inordinate power of big-time Capital which has no allegiance to this country or its people are some of the causes of the impotency of this country and its potential demise as a sovereign state.

yes Ron, and I couldn't have done it without your help.

here is a rought draft of the result of todays discussion/debate, I hope you enjoy it, indeed I hope Stockwell Day enjoys it too. He will have an opportunity to read it (or a slightly more well tuned version) sometime this week.

tks,
rjm

Nov 14 2002, Aljazeera broadcast a muffled and difficult to understand tape recording, supposedly of Osama Bin Laden. Within 2 weeks a Swiss Laboratory had, after digitally comparing the voice to 20 known Bin Laden recordings, concluded that it was a fake.

U.S. authorities claimed that the tape was of to poor a quality to be unequivocally verified... how convenient.

The acronym ‘WMD’ is well recognized as a symbol of the Bush administration’s willingness to attempt to bamboozle the American People. Independently corroborated accounts of U.S. military attempts to corrupt various media outlets in Iraq show clearly that they have no qualms about spoon feeding the Iraqi people all the propaganda they can handle. Why then would anyone be sceptical that the forces of American Conservativism would attempt to skew Canadian public opinion by providing us with false information?

In as much as it is unlikely that the tape is genuine, it was probably the product of some branch of the U.S. military, designed specifically to be vague enough to be unverifiable, yet specific enough to give their friends in Canada something with which to effectively terrify the Canadian people. Given the zeal with which Mr. Kenny has proceeded, it is safe to say he knows his job.

Further to the suspect nature of that which Mr. Kenny holds holier than though, is a letter released by Osama Bin Laden on the 24 of November 2002. There doesn’t seem to be any connection between the tape of the 14th and the letter of the 24th.

What is clear and without any doubt is that Conservatives have used this non-evidence as if it came directly from the burning bush. The reason is obvious, they want us involved in these wars and they don’t care what length they have to go to do it.

Compounding the problem is the fact that, unlike the situation in 2002, as of last summer and thanks to the Liberals, we are now actively involved in the Afghanistan component of George Bush’s terror wars. Any threats that may have been implied or otherwise in the past and that didn’t apply to us then, apply to us now.

As the potential Minister of Foreign Affairs, I think it is incumbent on Stockwell Day to make a commitment to his constituents prior to the election. I would like to know if Mr. Day would commit to giving each of his children a rifle and a pair of gumboots and sending them off to the killing fields before even considering sending the children of any of his constituents.

Robert MacKay
Merritt
BC

If you think this county is worth saving then you need to face the reality that liberals think that there is some kind of old Conservatives holding the fort, and that there is nothing to worry about. this is Canada after all.
Actually there aren't many of these people left.
The new reality is facing you. If you want to fight for Canada, in your way, I hope you see 2006 facing you that you will need to speed up.
With all respect, I can be assured that liberalism is dying as a major influence.

And I am not trying to be smart, obviously.

I like what you say Brain...but not this:

" we would take a serious look at Canada's constitution, analyze it, look at its weaknesses and strengths, and draft a constitution that addresses those weaknesses and strengths with sound, sustainable solutions. "...who is that "we"...it is not I, or you, or Coyote, or Lynn, or others who might take it upon themselves such a task..rather I believe that (1) it is first important to create a social movement, gaining support from all sectors of the political spectrum for the idea', the 'big idea', of the need to to create a Constitutional Constituent Assembly, members to be elected by proportional representation, with equal weighting to French, English and First Nations peoples, so that they may write a new constitution for Canada; a constitution that hopefully vests sovereign power in the people of Canada, with such a constitution to be decided upon directly by the people of Canada in a referendum. In a sense, we the citizens of Canada must decide that the time is upon us to come together to fairly and democratically elect a Constitutional Constituent Assembly' to write new rules by which we wish ourselves to be governed as a people and as a soverign nation.

Listen to Ron here. He is what we will face if Herr Harper gets a majority government, as unlikely as it is.

To Nightbloom
Your earlier quote caught my eye:
"I'm afraid the best thing is for us to play Italy (or Japan) for a few more years. Hopefully that'll shake all the crooks & nutcases out of Canada's unmonitored, unregulated, mafia-esque political party system."

Despite how I am voting, I would almost have to agree with you, especially getting rid of the Chretien appointees and bureaucrats. Maybe putting Kinsellas' ego in check, they all seem to worried about the Chretien legacy. Seems it is no different from the Mulroney legacy...

On another note, anyone have any ideas about Harpers' concept of "Open Federalism".

Peter,
It's nice to see you appeal to what you think is a ( your ) base.
But it's a defeated base.
I was one of the 58% of people that voted for our STV.
But back at the ranch, I am happy to see conservatives have our day.
If we can figure a way for all of us Canadians to be richer, considering all we have to offer, I will support anyone that has a plan.

Its the same with me, Peter. I'm convinced that the Cons, especially with a majority government, will hurt this country in some major ways and cause some huge turmoil and losses.

Already, we can thank Paul Martin for 2200 soldiers in Afaganistan soon to be assigned to military excercises to capture or kill insurgents. This number is likely to grow by a zero or more within a year under a Harper majority.

U.S. intel (so trustworthy) has it that Iran is building nukes to justify their next war. this is why Afganistan is such a strategic region to the U.S., but it goes much deeper than this.

It has always been Iran with the Bush family, and it has always been politically motivated going back 14 years or more, likely from the Saudi's since they own over 7% of the U.S. economy now, along with the Bush family.

Its no secret that the Bush's are bought and paid for with Saudi money. Iraq was just a pure power play that benefited a corrupt whitehouse and secured oil markets, but the Iraq regime also had to go down to get at Iran.

Iran is a different ball of wax, and the Saudi's are most likely behind who's pulling the strings to go there (I would be the first to hope I'm wrong with all of this). Its chilling. Iran isn't Iraq. They have a real military and airforce. When you connect the dots and see the pressure that Mr. Martin is truly under...

Its to soon to say until the polls have been counted, but... Until there is a major shift in the Conservative party in leadership and goals (and this shift is highly doubtful), they are very dangerous and its mind blowing that people don't know it. If we only knew...

I can predict this much. If its a majority government, its war, likely with a major increase in middle east troops by May or June. It'll also be a war here at home on many fronts. I have trump cards that have yet to show face... I have a playground that is much larger than the tyee, and far more powerful.

Nevertheless, I'll help you with what you decide to do. We'll know how far to take it a week from now and prepare, either way for the future to come.

Peter:
My apologies for not fully understanding the concept you were speaking of. I had to much else on the mind in terms of what is more dangerous than constitutional divisions.

There are two problems with your idea. The first is that changes to the constitution is normally what an elected government is for. We already have the system in place to make these changes. Unfortunately, we just don't have the right group of players.

Although your idea is sound in forming an equal gender minority proportionally represented, elected group of men and women to specifically take on the task of reexamining the needed changes, it still isn't a recipe for complete success.

If, for an example, elected individuals don't have equality and human rights within their own constitutions, it will fail. Elections aren't good enough in determining a constitution that is iron clad tight from design to production, or from draft to interpretation of the courts.

We both know that we will likely have too many obstacles in getting any political parties to take your idea seriously as well, except, maybe the Greens or a new party, or an organization that, as you say, has enough social clout with the populace, an organization that developes a distinguishable and credible enough of an identity to try getting it on the radar.

The second problem lies with our newly elected governments reopening the constitutional debate, which, by the way, Stephen Harper has said he would do. This would likely dwarf any possible media to a sounder approach, especially with a majority gov who has the ear of the media.

The only way you or any organization could be taken seriously with this plan is to build a reputation with an organization that was known for sound think tank solutions and harsh criticisms of failing platforms, ideologies and legislation.

This latter approach would need to be fast tracked by high profile individuals, namely writers and political activists who are known to write without bias, and there aren't many such individuals in journalism or public fish bowls at the moment. This does in no way mean that we can't attempt to try regardless, if we deem ourselves to be such individuals. It just means that we have to be aware of certain realities.

The best case scenerio is to define our voice and work with an honest government with a proven track record of at least 5 years plus, majority or minority, it doesn't matter which, who has the public will to open the constitution with proposals that aren't politically motivated. I only go go back so far... I haven't seen one in my day, and it likely that constitutional debate will be forced on us, but again, the polls will tell the extent of it.

Back to the supposed quote from 2002 of bin Laden, even if it were true, this is from before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, which happened in 2003. Obviously Canada's non-compliance with the wishes of the Bush administration would play some sort of factor in any new threat.

Ron, when you said, "give my side a chance", that was the most human I've seen you here. I'd like to see more of that than the knee-jerk baiting and taunting. If your side wins (and it sure looks like they will), we'll all get to see what happens.

Still no word from anyone about how a minority government affects a fixed election date...

This election is beginning to look very much like the Mulroney, VanderZalm and Campbell landslides.

The same puppet masters pulling the strings, the same ideologically corrupted puppets, the same gullible public falling for their glowing promises, the same awakening when it is too late.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

The Tories have a twelve point lead according to the polls. It just keeps getting better.
Hopefully the polls ring true on election day.

Fiat - looks a lot like a Glen Clark win too -even the qualifiers are the same

At this point, in this election, for myself, I shall be supporting Jack Layton & the federal NDP--they aren't perfect...but they are the only party that has come out in support of MMP (pro-rep) voting, and their record shows they do not support tax cuts for banks & big corporations as both the Liberals & Conservatives did ...and continue to do. Likewise, they have ideas to more strictly regulate lobbyists, and they adopted the Ed Broadbent plan to limit contributions from corporations & labor unions to political parties. etc...not perfect...but if politics is the art of the possible ...theirs is at least a vision that is more in accordance with my values, and perhaps more in tune with dissaffected Liberals, Progressive "Red" Tories, and those on the Left who want at least some voice in Parliament.

I appreciate your views Brain and note:

"The only way you or any organization could be taken seriously with this plan is to build a reputation with an organization that was known for sound think tank solutions and harsh criticisms of failing platforms, ideologies and legislation. "

I agree..."an organized approach." ..not an ad hoc approach. CCPA, and other groups do good quality research on some matters...others in other areas...what are needed are writers to help get those views, and many others out to Canadians, including immigrant communities in Canada.

This latter approach would need to be fast tracked by high profile individuals, namely writers and political activists who are known to write without bias, and there aren't many such individuals in journalism or public fish bowls at the moment.

I agree about "fast tracking" this...high profile individual without bias...cannot be found ...everyone has a bias...at least then one would know about their bias upfront and take that into account. My bias for instance is support of MMP, more econonic democracy, concepts of participatory democracy, need to address the 'fiscal imbalance' by addressing the political power imbalance brought about by a constitution/rules that are dysfunctional, out-dated...and need to be modernized, nation-building economic & social policies in key sectors of health care, day care, services to seniors, education, energy, communication, transportation, infrastructure building, a unique & independent foreign policy to promote peace and reduce misery in this world, --basically to increase inclusion, equality & to build a more compassionate, caring society - a more sovereign country...more distinct from the USA...and where citizens make a conscious choice to defend that sovereign difference against 'deep integration/continentalist/harmonization policies, ...fair trade policies...not free trade policies, using the Bank of Canada rather than private lenders to nation build, etc. policiies of national reconstruction and reconcilliation. That in short...is my bias...upfront, honest, if you like good, if not, c'est la vie.

"The best case scenerio is to define our voice and work with an honest government " ... I agree Brain.

Intuitively I feel in accordance with your views, now you know my bias...of course, you and others can read, have read about my bias in my numerous posts here and at bcpolitics.ca If you want to get in touch with me -

. Law office tel: (604) 684-4446

...perhaps the Greens also support MMP - I forgot to say that...but I don't think they yet will elect a member to Parliament...so from a pragmatic perspective, the NDP is the only party with the leverage to push this agenda inside Parliament, while the Greens,and ordinary citizens can push outside the House. I do think a national push by citizens for pro-rep should be started asap...MMP is my preference...

Glen Clark was elected by the barest majority.

I'm talking about hysteria landslides for incompetent leaders. Zalm , for example, didn't even publish a platform and his candidates were not permitted to make statements and answer questions. When the candidates were asked questions in the papers, there were big empty spots where their answers should have been, yet still elected. 2 here in the Cariboo. He was the end of the Socreds, now reborn as BC Libs.

Mulroney was elected on an anti FTA platform, 2 days after his election he was in Washington getting his orders from Reagan and came back as an FTA supporter. He was the end of the PC Party, now reborn as Conservatives.

Campbell was shown on TV walking around, promising "helthcare where you want it, when you want it" . The first thing he did was to give away $2.5 billion in taxcuts and start firing people, closing schools and hospitals, cutting services all around.

Harper is Mulroney junior, apart from the chin, they even look alike, with the same eyes. Elected by the daily polls.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Just my 2 cents, first of all like I have said before "Polls are for strippers"

They were calling for a Harper win last year but presto the real vote happened.

barryjo says

You have missed one thing like the MSM always does barryjo , the NDP is now at 19% and
growing, once they break say the 20-21% mark they will go right up the middle in allot of
ONT and BC ridings. Who will disenchanted Lib's vote for, not a bunch a social conservatives pro Bushies, but they will go NDP.

barryjo go ahead and vote against your own economic interest if you like, explain how tax breaks to the big banks and shell oil affects you.

How about that 1200 a year child care , remember its a taxable benefit, translation is that people making say 28 -37 K per year will get 400 bucks and folks making 100 k plus will take home 1000 dollars
If the lazy media would just point this simple fact out and show us Harpers real base,

P.S Hedy Fry got grilled last night over Haiti while Svend said he would pull out the troops and not take part in the occupation.

Just of the wire, Chile elects women socialist pres,

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1510971&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Fiat -

As Stephne Harper will be.

How does spending billions more per year on Health Care qualify as a spending cut?

Every responsible government should close schools and other facilities when they are not needed. Otherwise the one room scholl house in my neighbourhood from the 50's would still be open.

Stuart -

Please explain who suffers and who beneifts from corporatet tax policies. As I see it lower corporate taxes benefits ordinary people as much as the coprrate mavens. I know you hate the latter but why pick on the former?

Brain

There are only about 5,000 combat soldiers in the army presently, of the 2200 there, only about ½-2/3rd will be combat arms. Our military might be able to sustain another 1,000 troops, both combat and support in theatre. As I mentioned before you can roughly guess that to maintain a commitment overseas you need to divide your existing forces into 1/3rds. 33% in country, 33% on leave, course and other duties, 33% training up to replace the ones there.

It is unlikely that the forces will employ a significant number of reserves to Afghanistan such as they did in Bosnia, as Afghanistan will likely be a much nastier place. It takes at least 4-6months to train up a reservist (with approx 2-4 years in) for overseas duty and around 18 months to train a new recruit. Even if they hired a large number of recruits on Jan 24th, there are not enough instructors to train them. It will take 5-10 years to build the forces back up to a level that we can send further troops or support two oversea ground missions. You notice in the paper a few days ago that we could not afford to send our jets to Afghanistan, so the Canadians there will have to rely on the US for air support and heavy lift helicopter capacity.

Just a few quotes from John Kenneth Galbraith, that are so relevant at this time in our history.

And, three words from me to those who are thinking about voting for Harper.

Little Red Ridinghood.

LOL , whatever poor starving Shell oil making billions needs our help, and when they make a few more billion that will send all Canadians
a check , or lower the price of Oil by one penny.

Canada has seen the standard of living being lowered for the last 20 -25 yrs
people are being taxed more and are getting less, why is this happening.

At the same time we have seen an enormous concentration of wealth in fewer hands, The top 10% of Canadian earners make 50% of all income in Canada, (and stop dreaming you will never make that top 10%) while right wing governments lower corp taxes, break unions, lower standards remove pensions, and basically anything that may affect shareholder value

So the answer is simple, corporate Canada has been able to lower tax rates and that short fall has been transferred onto the backs of Canadians, but of course just bring up abortion, gay marriage and peoples eyes gloss over and off to the polls they go like funny little corporate clowns,

The same has happened with heath and Education, Ottawa sends the province
less money and guess what, service goes down and prices go up hence massive tuition increases, so like I said if you think companies like Shell need the money
more than average folks trying to get by and make a living than go ahead, how
about it rightwingnutter, send you cheque to Shell today, why not its good for Canada

Well your at it I am sure Dow Canada needs money to, go for it,

Conservative Party of Canada = Mission statement

We the Conservatives are proud of our screwing the little guy for 125 yrs now, we always find bogus wedge issues to distract the masses from real debate and the constant lowering of their standard of living, we hate unions, fags, women, seniors , minorities and yes even our soldiers have been shafted under conservative rule, yep if your rich and while your just right.

What greater sense of acheivement in life than, indeed, making a point.

:)

this gettin somewhat closer to a final draft.

tks,
rjm

Nov 14 2002, Aljazeera broadcast a muffled tape recording attributed to Osama Bin Laden. Within 2 weeks a Swiss Laboratory had, after digitally comparing the voice to 20 known Bin Laden recordings, concluded that it was a fake.

U.S. authorities claimed that the tape was of too poor a quality to be rejected... these same authorities backed up Mr. Bush’s claim of Iraqi attempts to purchase yellow cake uranium from Niger.

The acronym ‘WMD’ is well recognized as a symbol of the Bush administration’s willingness to attempt to mislead the American People. Independently corroborated accounts of recent U.S. military attempts to corrupt various media outlets in Iraq show clearly that they have no qualms about feeding the Iraqi people “all of the propaganda, all of the time”. The release of this tape, months prior to embarking on a war which had already been decided upon, was clearly designed to promote a false sense of apprehension within Canada, and with it support for participation in the Iraq war.

In as much as it is highly unlikely that the tape is genuine, it was probably the product of some branch of the U.S. military, designed to be vague enough to be unverifiable, yet specific enough to give their subordinates in Canada something with which to effectively terrify the Canadian people. Given the zeal with which Mr. Kenny has proceeded, it is reasonable to conclude that he is one of those subordinates.

What is clear and without any doubt is that Conservatives have given this non-evidence credence far beyond that which is warranted. The reason is obvious, they want us involved in these wars and they don’t care if they have to lie in order to achieve that end.

Compounding the problem is the fact that, unlike the situation in 2002, as of last summer and thanks to the Liberals, we are now actively involved in the Afghanistan component of George Bush’s terror wars. Any threats that may have been implied against coalition forces in past, and that didn’t apply to us then, apply to us now.

As the potential Minister of Foreign Affairs, I think it is incumbent on Stockwell Day to make a commitment to his constituents prior to the election. I would like to know if Mr. Day would commit to giving each of his children a rifle and a pair of gumboots and sending them off to the killing fields before even considering sending the children of any of his constituents.

Robert MacKay
Merritt
BC

Redrivergirl, I liked your John Kenneth Galbraith. Looks like Canadians are going to vote in a guy who doesn't even particularly like the country--at least not when compared to his beloved United States.

Check out Harper for yourself.

http://www.intheirownwords.ca/harper.php

I can't believe the MSM is complacent in this.

Noleftnut... if you start adding items to the Health Care budget that never really existed before or were covered by another ministry, then you could easily start spending billions more without increasing any services. For instance, Royal Columbian Hospital bought some houses and created a parking lot that they lease out to Impark. Those are Health care dollars. My friend is an Xray technician. She told me she went to New York for a few days to get some instruction on a new machine. The instructor did not come here. We went there. Those are Health care dollars and the decisions are made by bureucrats who need cool places to park.

To Colin:
Thanks for the insights. I got the 2200 number from CBC last night, with soldiers going to combat exercises against insurgents in Afganistan. Apart from this, your information is much more accurate than mine in terms of military capabilities.

At this point in time, I remain convinced that the U.S. is determined to pressure Canada into using as much as we've got. The 3 third's ratio is our failsafe in terms of what we can send, if this pressure continues, and it likely will, but Canada's overall military budget is destined to balloon under a Marin/Harper minority compared to past spending, and much more so with a majority goverment.

Although much of it is speculative, I would like to hear any future estimates you could provide in contrast to where our military is at now, overall, and where it would be in the future, as military budgets continue to grow.

It's a vague recollection as well, but I remember now, (somewhat rusty, but recollect) Stephen Harper taking that 5,000 number and expressing interest to double and quaddruple it over shorter timeframes in the house of commons. Thanks again, Colin, and would appreciate your inputs on this.

To Peter: I'll look you up. Like the transparency. :-)

A couple of my favourite quotes

"I want the whole world to know that I do not condone homosexuals. I do not condone their activity. I do not like what they do. I think it is wrong. I think it is unnatural and I think it is totally immoral. I will object to it forever whenever they attack the good, traditional Canadian family unit that built the country."

- MP Myron Thompson.

"When you go into the issue of homosexuals and lesbians it's in the interest of society to have the right to discriminate against that group in areas of ... schools is one that comes to mind."

- Conservative Party Natural Resources critic Dave Chatters arguing in favour of discrimination against gays on a radio station in Westlock, Alberta, on April 30th 1996.

NLN asks, "How does spending billions more per year on Health Care qualify as a spending cut?"

Well, actually, the budget only got increased in the last year or so but at the beginning of the Libs term in 2001 they handed out 23% raises to nursing, HSA, then came the partially broken binding arbitration raise of the Dr.s' as well as the doubling of MSP premiums (a paid benefit for a majority of employees. Pretty standard for most employers really.) BUT they didn't hand out a dime extra for years to come causing serious cutting.

Hope that helps you understand the truth of the numbers....

RRG, thanks for the JKG quotes. I've mentioned him on the Tyee several times before. A Cdn economist who went to the US and became one of their top people from WW2 on. One of those responsible for the post-war prosperity. Professor-emeritus at Harvard. Outstanding economist and excellent writer. His books are very readable and are available in most public libraries if anyone is interested. And unlike some modern-day economists he doesn't tie himself in knots trying to prove with charts that poverty is good and an unemployment rate below 7% is bad.

JKG also said " The purpose of economic competition is to eliminate competition".

In other words, the "competitive equilibrium of the marketplace" is a planned fraud to set up mono and oligopolies, as we now have in oil and food distribution systems. What we poor sucker ranchers get for our cattle and what you poor suckers pay in the supermarkets is controlled by a special interest oligopoly, all over the world.

He also concluded, in an official report to the US government, that the WW2 bombing of Europe was virtually worthless, as industrial activity has increased almost to the end.

The generals and politicians knew that the bombers can't hit military targets, so they haven't even tried very hard and went for the cities, killing civilians and destroying their homes to terrorize them.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Gasp! A politician is a pragmatist and an opportunist?

Thanks for the news flash, Tom Brokaw.

"The new Harper...is more flexible, way less ideological." And what was Barrett smoking when he wrote that? Harper's true colours were shown this morning with the latest attack ad on the NDP. Did Harper’s advisor approve of the latest “attack ad” on Jack Layton or did Harper dream that one up himself? To attack an individual on the basis of facial hair is one of the clearest indications of Harper’s neo-fascist thinking. If you can't attack the policies then attack the individual's personal characteristics. Any 10 year old child knows that is wrong. The black spot, not the black X, to him and his kind.

Stuart - you never explainded what Shell and Dow do wtih all that money. As for me sending them a cheque, well, becasue I'm a shareholder they are actually sending me one. And frankly, I'm glad that I'm not an employee or a customer of theirs cause in your world I'd have to work for lower wages or pay higher prices...on top of the billions of extra tax dollars that you want every government to take to pay for your pet projects.

BP - I'm not fully aware of where all the money in Health Care goes, who is? It's untrue and disingenuous to say that there have been cuts to Health Care when the amount of money being put in is going up.

"It's a sincere question. Why do we need [the CBC]? Why should we have it?"

- Jim Abbott, Conservative Party Heritage Critic, National Post, February 5th 2002. Abbott believes the CBC English-language service should be scrapped and some of its newsgathering functions transferred to CBC Newsworld.

This is the nut I've got in my back yard. Unfortunately, its also one of the most red neck, ill informed constituencies overall, so...

NoLeftNutter, yes there is more money going into Health care today than there was three years ago.

But it is a far cry from the amount spent by Ottawa before Paul Martin pulled his famous deficit-beating bs by stealing back much of the health transfers to the provinces.

Remember when he was our fiscal hero? Ya sure and pigs fly.

Transfer payments are still far below the 1990 levels, something anyone who has been in Canada can't help but to have noticed.

Oh, perhaps I missed the fact that you are a wealthy Canadian who has the option of flitting across to the US for whatever top up you need in health care.

Of course, there have been no cuts in access for you to health care in that case has there?

Slightly unrelated topic, but perhaps you would be willing to trade. Take all the subsidies and tax breaks Canada gives the bloated oil and gas industry in Canada and transfer a tenth of it to universal health care.

rightwingnutter says

This comment explains allot about you, profit at any cost, in fact all Canadians are shareholders of Shell and other energy companies, their are biggest welfare bums always at the public trough for more
and more subsidies and research monies, they also are externalizing machines, the public picks up the cost of clean ups and pollution etc,

Yes poor corporate Canada has really been neglected, 20 yrs ago we had corporations paying their fair share and now we the public picks up the extra tax Burdon, I guess rightwingnutter likes to pay taxes because he's afraid to offend his masters. I guess he knows his rightful place eating the crumbs as
they are swept of the table. But always hoping one day to sit at that table.

http://www.bigmattress.com/shell.htm

Check out the link above for a record of what Shell does with its money.

Good post Allan

I think its Port Coberg Ont where an energy company has turned the entire community into
a toxic waste dump, it is going to cost 750 mil to clean up 50% of the mess, guess who
pays for this, we do. Not a penny from the energy company, we live in a false economy
where we pay tons of hidden taxes to prop up the old way of thinking, aka right wing
thinking, anyway at least we don't live in Port Coberg , right rightwingnutter.

Stuart, you're confused if you think I support corporate welfare, it's one of the biggest wastes of my tax dollars. Frankly, I am likley a sharehoulder of Shell and other large companies through my pension funds. But then you don't think I'm entitled to fair return there either.

I'm all for paying less taxes, that thinking doesn't seem very popular here as all the whacko's promote greater government involvement in their pet projects.

You're either for more or less government and considering how incompetent most of the ones in recent memory have been, I'll take my chances with less. How about you?

Sorry to hear about Port Coburg but it looks like the local, provincial and federal government was just as much to blame as the company, or don't we expect governments to oversee business affairs in our country?

Paul Martin's annual program spending has risen by 60% since he tamed the deficit. I don't like it becaue it's costing my family $7,000 more per year to support that increase.

It's not that the Liberals aren't spending lot's of money. It's that they're spending too much of it stupidlly.

Allan - you're off by a mile with your claim of Health Care spending in Canada. In 1993 we were spending about $2500 per person. Now we're spending about $4500 per person with worse outcomes. By all means, be passionate about your position but try to be factual as well.....

My goodness, I don't know why I'm not getting threw , I feel maybe because this debate is so foreign and never talked about in the MSM people get their backs up , we are paying more taxes because corporations have effectively lobbied both major parties to lower their corp tax rates, in short they pay less and we make up any short falls via cuts or increased taxes.

Tax rates can never be low enough Corp Canada and the Fraser Pimpstitute, they claim that they create jobs and basically blackmail the population. When in fact we supply the companies with highly educated employees , low resources cost and a business friendly environment, if they don't want to do business
here and pay their fair share then get lost and I am sure we can manage ourselves. We have been pumped with fear very effectively. Oh God don't raise business tax as the sky will fall, please let me pay for it.

As we have seen in the latest global scandals via the markets and companies like Enron that has no respect even for shareholders we need regulation badly. ON the way companies report , on the way they act globally, and what they contribute to a community, maybe we should have more self determination and
run our own local companies, at the turn of the century we had over 200 auto makers, not we have a handful (going broke by the way)

We need taxes to run a country , we have a massive country and a small population that has been overburdened via tax transfers onto our back from greedy corporations. IF we had more money in our pocket we would spend
more and drive the economy more. This is the crutch of the issue, you need social housing we have to go threw a 3 yr report, Shell needs 3 more billion, we need 3 weeks. Please don't vote for this insanity anymore, Harper wants to lower our taxes to the US model, thats 3-4% lower flat tax, get ready to pay for that.

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/corptax.html

Stuart - corporations are legal entities that serve 3 constituents - shareholders like individuals, Gov't pension funds, Union pension funds etc., employees and customers. When you insist on increasing the tax burden on companies you either create lower returns for shareholders, less wages for employees or high pirces for consumers. Illegal activity aside, becasue most companies that I know operate within the law, which of those constituents do you want to punish and why?

Suart - BTW, your link shows that Canada has the highest coporate tax rates amongst developed countries. How much is too much?

Fait

You’re quite right that the Germans did manage to increase war production during the bombing, however they did so at the expense of civilian production. Incredibly the Nazi’s did not want to shut down civilian production until around 1944 as it would create disillusionment on the home front. However the bombing did affect key production facilities and supplies of certain alloys and ball bearing became critical. Of course Sweden was happily selling these to both sides.

Brain
You will notice that promises made to the military by politicians from any party are taken with a very large bag of salt by those people, they have been burned to many times already. Part of the problem is that our military has had no clear plan to follow for over a decade and any equipment purchases have been done on a adhoc basis (ie: when soldiers start dying) or when the present equipment becomes to much of an embarrassment politically. Even if the CPC threw large amounts of money at the forces on Jan 24th, they couldn’t spend it right away as they need to decide what they really need, contracts would have to be let, and factories tooled up. Some time and money can be shaved off by tacking our requirements onto existing production runs, but this means spending the money outside of Canada and the subsequent screaming by politicians.

also as I mentioned before the ability to upsize the army is limited by the number of Combat arms Instructors, Officers and NCO’s and those you can’t just buy. So it will take 5 years of hard and expensive commitment to increase the army to the point where it could take on a 2nd role elsewhere as light Infantry. To provide a fully functionally all-arms combat brigade would likely take longer. You can’t “buy” a modern Western style combat capable military, you have to “build it” first

When the conservatives talk of lowering taxes they relate it to the U.S.

Let's see what low taxes beget:

1. A crumbling infrastructure which needs 3 trillion to re-build.

2. a lack of social programs to aid the poor, instead they have masses of bored under-educated and under-employed youth.

3. Bored youth means more crime more prisons paid for with the few tax dollars.

4. they have massive annual deficits with no end in site and a huge cummulitive debt

So how long can the U.S. go like this an not raise taxes?

If we lower our taxes our standard of living will suffer as we start jailing the poor and locking ourselves into gated compounds.

Mel -shake your head, do you mean to tell me that we're even coming close to getting fair value for our tax dollars? The litany of waste over the past 20 years is legendary.

Most Canadians are so seducred by tax dollar bribery that they don't care how or how much the governemnt takes as long as they get their share back.

It's a mugs game and as long as the populice is willing to keep bending over the politicians are willing to keep givin 'er.....

There is waste in any organisation the question is there more waste in the federal government than the provincial governments(who the press seem to think are wiser) or corporations. Probably not.

Rather than have a 200$ cut in GST or personal income tax only to have to buy health insurance for my family for hundreds of dollars a month, I will take the current tax regime and social programs.

Nor do I want my taxes going to build more prisons and courts.

Let's not forget the millions Stephen Harper plans on spending re-fighting the court cases on abortion and marriage. Talk about waste!!

Did you even read the link NoLeftNutter, just stop and think for a few seconds and read and learn. Your acting like those people you claim to be ideologues etc, I am not saying we need to throw away the baby with the bath water, I am saying we need an adjustment , why are you so scared to pay less taxes, why are you so scared to stand up to corp Canada, was life better or worse 20 to 25 yrs
ago, what happened,

Education was more affordable for normal people
People had more free time and better benefits,
Worked less, more stay at home moms
More Vacations, free time
Healthy youth and less violence,
Less gated communities,
Better health care, less line ups
Housing and no visible homelessness

What happened , well their has been a effort to scare everyone into paying more tax without
pointing the finger in the right direction, its the unions, its the fat civil service.
Like good paying jobs were the problem, more McJobs will help us.

The world is becoming a much poorer while the elite are becoming the super rich, this is not
me just do some research.
your basically wrong in your thinking, check out the very interesting move the

http://www.thecorporation.com/

You pick it up in most Libraries and video stores now. The system we have is crashing you just have not hit bottom yet.

Stop eating PR Sh** and open your mind to a new way of thinking and living.

Hey Colin, COKE had financial difficulties to in WW2 , so they just rebranded their German pop Fanta , Fanta the drink of the Nazi's

in 2004/005 54% of total federal revenue came from personal income tax,
corporate tax contributed 18% to the coffers

doesn't seem like they are paying to much to me. Big business has all the money these days and should be paying MORE taxes, not less.

Mel-recently the TD bank analysed the last 15 or so years of Canadian federal government performance. GDP had risen 25%, government program spending has doubled and the standard of living of the average Canadian family has remained stagnant.

Our economy is growing, the government is expanding and our standard of living is suffering. There are literally billions of dollars misspent every year.

How do you rationalize that program spending has increased by $60 billion per year since 97/98 with no appreciable improveement in your liefstyle. How does that make sense?

crh - you're ignoring that you and I pay for corproate taxes. Additionally, who do you think pays the GST and EI premiums that make up most of the balance of taxes?

Stuart - you clearly aren't seeing the whole picture. I'd love to return to program spending fo 20 years ago. Almost all the increase in spending since then has been social engineering and tax bribery.

My major comaplaint about most of the posters here is the push for increased social spending, or heaven forbid that Stephen Harper might actually limit growth in program spending.

This is where we are going, of course the conservatives will spin it as cleaning up the mess with media in hand, get ready for massive cuts across the board, private health is a certainty as Harper has said in the past.

This whole debate over off-shore shell companies, and how they're used to avoid taxes, is taking place against the bigger backdrop of an overall decline in the amount of taxes paid by U.S. Corporations. In 1960, corporations paid 24% of all federal taxes. In the 1970's, that share fell to 15%. As recently as 1996, it was 12%. Now, corporate taxes make up only about 8% of U.S. revenues. That, Bob McIntyre, of Citizens for Tax Justice, says, is the result of all sorts of loopholes and laws, written by politicians friendly to corporations.

Watch the move NoLeftNutter

http://www.thecorporation.com/

And stop voting against your own economic interest and those of other Canadians, watch and learn.

Colin: Or, as you've pointed out, increase casualties.

To the rest of you:
As far as the U.S. economy goes, its already toast... they just don't know it yet. The U.S. is in the middle of a currency crisis.

Its all about bang for your buck. Prop up fed rates, and currency rises with foreign investment, until one of two things happen. It no longer works on fears of large repeated trade deficits. It no longer works because interest rates are raised at banks on all loans Fed or otherswise, to threshhold extremes, with nowhere else to go but flatline or go dangerously higher.

High interest rates creates a stall and then fall on currency and real estate equity under such climates. This triple whammy of high deficits and federal debt, high interest rates and falling currency, and lower equity values, is further compounded by shrunken domestic manufacturing capacity and shrunken consumer spending. Its all a recipe for economic disaster. All that is left to ask, is... when.

Up here in Canada, to think that the U.S. collapse won't affect Canada is to not acknowledge 85% North/South trade. To also think that GDP growth cannot reverse itself under these conditions, as well as budget, as the Cons have, commodity royalties at all time highs, is to face deficits, rising rates, and social program cuts here at home.

I have yet to hear one MP of any party talk about what to do during "bad times". This is the problem with Goverment's that cry "less goverment" with looming issues such as the economical collape coming down south.

To add to all of this, large cap corps. are flush with cash as a result of higher currency and commodity values. This too, will evaporate in time as trends reverse.

Corporate losses usually begin at the beginning of the first quarterly reports of each year, setting a trend for recouping prior taxes paid on previous tax years in the U.S.. As long as commodities and U.S. currencies remain strong, commodity driven stocks will do well and support various parts of the economy, but manufacturing could take a hit first, like we haven't yet seen due to raw resource climbs and squeezed profits as it all is more slowly downloaded onto the consumer that is facing shrunken spending, so... the thing to watch closely as economic collapse indicators are:

Interest rates.
Federal deficits
U.S. and Canadian currency values.
Commodity values.

Question to all you smart guys out there is... what should the policies be in regards to high interest rates, falling currencies and commodities? Less goverment? This mandate is also one of failure in bad times. As much as righties cry "privatization and less govermnent!", its the worst thing to do in bad times. Good times, yes, partially. Bad times, no, and like I say, where is the plan for bad times? There isn't one put forth by the Cons. In fact, their platform is full of gapping holes in two critical issues that all program spending relies on:
Environment
Economical forcasts

Add what their platform stands for on international affairs, and this Con government isn't yet fit to govern.

You see those pesky Canadians expect silly things like

Health Care
affordable education
clean and safe streets
nice environment
safe workplace
good transit
etc

The way most people see it is that we are shelling out huge tax dollars and are deserving of a few things for that. We want the best bang for our buck, we know that corporate Canada is not pulling its weight. We get stuck paying more so we want more, sorry but have not bought into the US vision of the rugged individual cowboy yet, GDP is a flawed measure, if you spilled 50,000 gallons of oil into the Fraser River GDP would go up, can you name anything that makes GDP go down. The decline in the standard of living is directly proportional to Corp Canada stealing from us. It will get worst before it gets better.

Stuart - watching the movie isn't likely to change my perspective much after 30+ years of watching governments devolve into looking after the interests of party power, friends and insiders and tax bribery. You seem stuck in the concept that taxing coprorations will improve the quailty of life for the average taxpayer. I say that if you increase corprate taxes we all simply end up paying more or getting less.

The central question for me is do I prefer more government or less and after all the incompetence over the past 25 years I'm prepared to settle for less.

Brain, you and I don't agree on much but I'm wondering where the money comes from in a defaltionary cycle when we've ratcheted up program spending to $200 billion a year?

Just watch the bloody movie, your never to old to moderate your perspective, at min you can study how others see our economy and its problems, it's actually shot in Van and is quite well done and very funny at times. Your sounding old and crusty. We are asleep at the wheel and headed for a brick wall, we need to sober up.

NoLeftNutter;
You should be ashamed of yourself for questioning this socialist math.
If you ever go to an NDP meeting they reveal, to their members, a deep dark secret, like the Free Mason secret, very deep. You see they have discovered they have seeds for a money tree, the only problem is that it won't germinate unless they are elected.
Now you know.

Vancouver Sun
Tuesday, January 17, 2006

Vanoc delays releasing venue costs

A plan to tell Canadians this week how far over budget the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Games is on its venue construction program has been scrapped by the organization out of fear it would become an election issue.
______________________________________________
Vancouver Sun
Tuesday, January 17, 2006

Abbotsford Liberal riding association to stand by Oliver

Continued support despite bribery allegations by NDP candidate

The federal Abbotsford Liberal association says it is sticking with former candidate David Oliver, who is running as an independent in Monday's election despite bribery allegations levelled by the NDP.

NoLeftNutter, don't be coy with your numbers.

Any increased spending on health care during the '90s came as a result of increased provincial expenditures, not reimbursed by Ottawa.

Ottawa did ante up promises of added transfer payments for healthcare later, but that was long after most provincial taxpayers lost other services when their provincial governments slashed away to cover their new health cost realities.

In hindsight, the gutting of those health care transfers was really the signal from Ottawa that the neocon slash-and-burn programs were now in season in Canada.

Must have made the International Monetary Fund executive wet their pants over the quick conversion in Canada.

Oh, and I'll bet not a few for-profit healthcare operators found a few jollies in it all too.

Allan - Coy with my numbers? How many different classes of taxpayers do you see in this country. What a futile comment that because my money is taken federally or provincially I'm bettter off....

NoLeftNutter: In answer to your question, its borrowing money creating Deficits. When these balloon and currency drops when hiking interest rates don't work, the only alternatives to stop the bleeding is spending cuts to social programs, stop borrowing, and re-finance at lower interest rates.

The libs had no choice in doing this alternative when they inherited a failing economical climate in the 90's. The economic climates of the 70's, 80's and 90's should be fresh in our heads, regardless of who was in power, as well as what it should have taught us.

The bottom line is this. We cannot run more red ink federally with the amounts of Federal debt that we currently have. Harper talks of correcting Fiscal imbalances without a hint as to who gets what. Considering that he is a western separatist turned so called conservative...

And considering that he just made the boldest lie of this election campaign in declaring that majority governments don't hold absolute power due to hold ups in the senate... lets just say that the senate can only stall for so long.

Any majority goverment can ram through legislation as much as they want, within 2 year time frames as a rule. Harpers lie is the largest one yet of all lies in this election. Whether or not anyone picks up on it... time will tell. I'm doubtful.

At this point, I wouldn't trust a thing that comes from that man's mouth, other than the fact that he can't emotionally lie just yet. He still squirms when asked about whether or not he loves this country, among other emotional issues. That will fade as well, in time.

You know, its funny. Brian Mulroney campaigned the exact same way in the early 80's. You would think the electorate would have learned. So many inexperienced voters. Truly amazing how successful the new Cons are with mimicking earlier successful PC campaigns with the exact same promises and platforms that later failed miserably at the expense of every Canadian.

I am not so sure Harper is so much a pragmatist as he has simply learned to to put on a gentler face. He brings to mind another socialy conservative man who was around in the 80's His name was David Duke, they even bare some resemblence in looks. Duke the good looking Grand Poobah of the Ku Klux Klan went for race hating leader to soft peddling his racist concepts. No longer did he hate black but instead he felt they would be more comfortable on thier own. He dropped the insulting and racist terms for a kinder and gentler race seperation belief. Harper is still the man who took far more extreme positions on social issues. Who was and is aligned with the Christian right wing. Give Harper one majority government and we will see a good deal of change to the right in Canada. Give him two mandates in a row and we will see a Bush like regime reborn. Abortion, bash the gays and likely even a resurfaced captitol punishment debate. Harper and the reform faction have strong agendas to push, its just that so far the muzzle has worked. I doubt we will see it long after an election unless its a minority government. This would be no Mulroney style populist movement, these are folks with clear moral agendas. After four years of Harper it may well be Americans will be posting websites for Canadians who wish to flee the ultra right Government in Canada. Wont that be a change

NoLeftNutter

Why is when corps screw up you blame it on gov't and when gov't screws up you blame it on gov't? Shouldn't you blame gov't screwups on corps? At least 50% of the time?

Corporate profits have done rather well on the other hand. Especially in the financial sector. Obviously the reason for Cdn living standards falling must be bank profits, which of course might get the gloss over treatment from TD.

Money sent out of the country and back to foreign ownership has also increased. Might that too have a detrimental effect on money being in the pockets of Canadians? After all, money spent by the Cdn gov't stays in the Cdn economy, money sent to the US does not.

That's not bad since you're using absolute numbers. But its okay, many people use absolutes when it suits them and percentages when thats better and inflated dollars instead of real dollars etc.

Compared to GDP Canada has not broken the bank all of a sudden when it comes to health care costs. Our outcomes are worse than they were but there's lots of reasons for that which I've already outlined in arguments with you and barryjo on other threads. One can ignore those reasons but its best to actually counter them than pretending they don't exist.

The population has increased too. Medical costs have also gone up, especially drugs...which come from corporations...which don't support the NDP...

I thought you said you were living, working and paying taxes in the US?

Ron

Except that the Conservative platform promises to spend more than the NDP one. Probably double as much when you add in redressing the fiscal imbalance. So who has the money tree again?

The problem with government spending has never been with tax and spend progressives; it has always been with borrow and spend conservatives. Look for more of this from Herr Harper. With the defecits he will create will come hikes in interest rates, higher umemployment, people losing their homes, higher demands on EI, higher inflation... it is a spiral just like his idol Lyin Brian did.

It took a lot of pain in this country to undo Lyin' Brian's work.

How short memories are.

Pual Martin during his " reign of error " failed us. This fascist regime has perpetuated a corruption unknown since the Democratic rule of the USA during this same period.
Our generation has to fix up this mess. The Toronto NDP have no answers ( except to beg for your vote, like a sad panhandler on the streets of Toronto ).
The Lib is without an original thought, and they can't believe they are toast yet. They were an criminal organization.
They are busted.
Broke, if effectual, neutered, gone like the Dodo Bird.
I guess most of you won't buy my point, but there are 50% of the public that have came to this conclusion without my help.
This site The Tyee is a refuge for you.
Anywhere else in the world you would be toast.

Isn't this an overstatement since you said yourself the Conservative view of original thought is lowering the GST from 7% to 5% and replacing a long-promised national child care program with a tax break?

Not a big fan of PM the PM but I think fascist might be over the top. But then I'm assuming you see Bush's regime as being a beacon of light in comparison to Clinton's corruption so I'm probably expecting a lot.

50? Really? Are you counting Albertans twice?

It tis indeed

Somehow I think my social democratic carcass could find more friends than your Bush lovin one.

Ponder this thought

I hate polls but try this on, the NDP are at 19% national and the Libs are at 27%,

BUT the that includes Quebec where the NDP is very weak, so the true # is NDP 17% Lib's around 17% , The NDP is coming right threw the middle and may pick up more seats than the LIb's,

Plus its not in the bag for Harper , minus his support in Quebec and give him extra percentage points for the west like usual and he really does not have a big lead, not to mention this is the final week get ready folks.

The NDP does not have the big bucks of the other 2 parties, in others words that
have held of on the ads until this week. Ask yourself who has been most effective
in the house, who has got things done.

I have no love for Paul Martin but the conservatives have been asleep at the wheel, it was the NDP that discovered the income trust etc, name one policy that Conservatives have moved forward. Just one policy.

Stuart
Ford was in Germany in WWII
Building trucks for Hitler’s army

Ford supplied trucks to the Canadian military
While under a Liberal government

Trucks, Ford trucks

In Canadian cities

I am not making this up.

:-)

Okay Colin , I admit it you made me smile.

It is quite amazing the amount of US and Canadian companies that profited from Nazi rule,

that was my earlier rant, these multi nationals have no interest in loyalty , just profit.

Their is a good documentary that points out these things called The Corporation, check it out.

http://www.thecorporation.com/

Every time I see someone drinking a Fanta I know their Nazi wannabies.

How about IBM, their were no computers back in the day so the Germans used the punch
card machines to label prisoners in the concentration camps,

Corporations have their handmaidens in Politics and use them very effectively, they have lobbied and driven down corporate tax rates and basically transferred that onto the backs of Canadians, the military needs new equipment and better pay , no new money while both conservative and Liberals reward their
corp. backers, It was BUSH in the US who was rewarding Halliburton and Bechtel and giving blushing tax cuts for the elite while war veterans got reduced pensions and reduced health benefits.

Just like in 2004 right after the election it was the Libs and conservatives first task to reward big oil and other insiders, it was the NDP who took that money back. Hey the sky has not fallen because we didn't shell
out more corp welfare.

The corp now want less gov in their lives like here in BC, less regulations and protections for workers, like in BC where 14 people have died in 2005 in logging due to lax policy. The political arena is the only lever of power people can have and use , the corporations want a free hand, with Harper and Paul that will basically have it.

Colin.. not to mention that Ford was compensated billions because American Bombers Command accidentally bombed Ford factorys in Germany and that German civilians fled to the properties of American based companies in Germany during bombing raids because they were well aware that American companies would not be the target of the bombing. And let's not forget that all that German production was accomplished with slave labor, at the point of a gun. And that the Germans paid Ford and American shareholders for the production of tanks that were built with slave labor.

Good posts

anyone for some real history and not the pulp we usually get.

http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/barparent.htm

Most of the slave labour was used in construction or in light industry, technical manufacturing was done by Germans civilians mostly. The Germans were so convinced that they would win that they didn’t allow their allies to build German equipment under licence except for some aircraft in Hungry. French workers were well known for ensuring components made by them had a short lifespan.

I know a few historians that studied Germany’s wartime industrial practices, they were quite bizarre and I think German propaganda prevented them from fully realizing what they were involved in.

Meanwhile the Japanese had taken over huge resource industries, which they mismanaged and then were unable to ship back to Japan. When the allies where able to take back Malaysia they found huge stockpiles of tin and rubber produced by the Japanese sitting in warehouses.

Has Harper Really 'Evolved'?
No.I am beginning to think however,that a short term with "Cowboy Stevie" at the helm should help cure Canadians of the confusion of whether or not he belongs in the top job.(He doesn't.)Meanwhile,the Liberals can lick their wounds and get their sorry act together and start behaving like "real"Liberals instead of "neo-Liberals".Whilst they are at it,they can punt kick ol' bucktoothed Mr Dithers out of the party.Never could stomach the phony.

martin's done. should be one hell of a nasty battle over the next year. going to be loving it.

So Colin... Do you think there is a connection between the Lake Balaton German counteroffensive and Standard Oil's granting the US administration access to it's until then secret patent information in 1945? Perhaps the Gs left some technology in the oil fields when they were overrun by the Russians. I worked with many Europeans in the seventies from both sides of the war. Slavery was common practice.