Mediacheck

Facebook Aims to Kill One of Its Largest BC Groups

NO BC HST has 125,000 Facebook members, but not for long it seems.

By Bill Tieleman, 27 Sep 2011, TheTyee.ca

Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg

Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg: Poof! You've been archived!

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"The thing that we are trying to do at Facebook, is just help people connect and communicate more efficiently." -- Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook founder

Why would Facebook want to kill B.C's largest Facebook protest group, with over 125,000 members, and one of the province's biggest Facebook groups overall?

Search me, it makes no sense. I created the group -- NO BC HST -- back in July 2009.

But today's column isn't about the Harmonized Sales Tax, it's about Facebook’s bloody-minded disregard for its users that's forcing many to bail out of the giant social network.

What Facebook is doing it calls "archiving" some groups but "upgrading" others to a new format.

Problem is, only Facebook gets to decide if you are eligible to upgrade and if you are archived, your group loses all its members. And Facebook is killing groups with as many as a million members.

In the United States, a Facebook group called "Barack Obama (One Million Strong For Barack)" has 989,421 members but is being archived.

As a result the group creators set up a Facebook "page" to replace it -- and currently just 1,784 people "like" it.

Changes like these may explain why in Canada in May alone Facebook lost 1.52 million users -- that's eight per cent of the still amazing 16.6 million Canadians who use the service.

Facebook also lost six million users in the United States, dropping from 155.2 million to 149.4 million.

And that was before this month's radical new design changes to Facebook that has generated outrage from many users.

That Zucks!

So why does Facebook founder and CEO Mark Zuckerberg keep getting in people's faces?

And will Facebook eventually turn into the online version of an 8-track tape? Already Twitter has become a powerful alternative and Google has just launched Google+, a new service directly aimed at disgruntled Facebook users.

Zuckerberg is a genius, no question, and worth $17.5 billion at just age 27.

Facebook claims to have signed up 800 million users worldwide since it launched in 2004 and has an estimated market value of a cool $50 billion.

But that doesn't mean Zuckerberg can't make huge mistakes. Just ask Enron or WorldCom, if you can find them.

Message from HQ

Back here in B.C., I have politely tried to convince Facebook not to "archive" NO BC HST since I found out about its plans in May.

At the top of NO BC HST was ominous news.

Clicking "Learn More" I found this friendly message:

"Things that will NOT be available in the archived version include:
• Recent news
• Group officer titles
• The info box under the old group picture
• The group network
• The members of your old group."

Oh, is that all -- just lose all your members. The message continued:

"If your old group has enough recent activity to make it a good candidate for a new group, you will see a message at the top of the group with the option to upgrade."

But no upgrade option was offered.

So Facebook was told that NO BC HST -- which I created to oppose then premier Gordon Campbell's plan to impose the HST -- went viral in B.C., growing at a phenomenal rate of more than 6,000 members a day to peak at over 136,000.

(That interest was further confirmed when I helped found Fight HST with former B.C. premier Bill Vander Zalm, ex-Unity Party leader Chris Delaney and others to eventually launch the successful citizens initiative petition signed by 705,000 British Columbians.)

The current 125,000 members compares very favourably to other B.C.-based Facebook groups.

What appears to be B.C.'s biggest group -- though members could be anywhere in the world -- is the Vancouver Canucks Facebook page with 618,521 fans.

A page called "Beautiful British Columbia" but not connected to the magazine has 160,377, while the BC Lions official Facebook page has 37,158 supporters. Premier Christy Clark has a Facebook page too, with 3,942 fans.

Facebook was also made aware that NO BC HST is a very active group, with thousands of posts from members in the lead-up to the referendum vote and beyond.

(They may have already known that after NO BC HST disappeared completely for three days in Jan. 2010 and became a news story. Facebook then declined to talk to me but eventually told media here that it was merely a "technical" issue.)

But it was all to no avail. Facebook wasn't listening or helping "people connect and communicate more efficiently."

Facebook's official response was -- too bad.

Face the Wall

"We are currently migrating various Facebook Groups into a new format that makes it easier to communicate with smaller sets of people. During this process, some groups will be given the opportunity to upgrade into the new design while others will need to re-create their groups," said a June 1 email from Kelly Ornelas, a Toronto communications consultant working for Facebook.

"We determined what groups to archive based on a number of factors, including the amount of recent activity. We encourage people who are trying to engage with large numbers of people to create Pages," Ornelas wrote.

But there was some good news, at least from Facebook's twisted perspective.

"However, the HST referendum vote is scheduled for June 24, which is before the Group is scheduled to be archived," Ornelas concluded, referring to the original balloting end date that was later extended.

Well, thanks for that. I had explained that Facebook killing NO BC HST during the vote would be a really big story and appear to be an intervention on one side of the referendum.

In a telephone call June 15, Ornelas suggested that I could: "Post a message on your Wall telling members you're starting a new group."

Sure, that will work well. See what happened to Obama's group!

Or perhaps I could ask Zuckerberg to next invent a time machine so I can go back to July 2009 and set up a non-Facebook page that won't be subject to his whims.

And to pour salt in the wounds, the pro-HST group YES BC HST with all 408 members, including several BC Liberal MLAs -- isn't being archived. They got picked for the upgrade.

You will be assimilated, er, archived

But at least I'm not alone in being totally frustrated that Facebook, which is a great social network despite itself, is intentionally alienating group creators and members for no obvious benefit.

One huge Facebook group is sending Zuckerberg that message. Called "We Hate The New Facebook, so STOP CHANGING IT!!!", it was set up in 2008 when the first annoying set of tweaks was introduced and now has 1,541,806 members.

I would suggest that you join up but guess what? It's also being "archived" and those members will disappear shortly.  [Tyee]

25  Comments:

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  • Dungeness_Crab

    21 weeks ago

    Mark, see Shark.

    JUMP!

    That is all.

  • west coast

    21 weeks ago

    Need to look to open source social networking

    It's now more clear every day the degree to which social networks run by corporations can shape the way people interact, share information and speak out.

    It's time to look at open source alternatives to Facebook to start owning our own data and deciding the fate of our friendships and forums. Particularly as businesses turn to Facebook or Twitter for in house communications over email, and families share all their photos and memories. What if they get "archived"?

    http://elgg.org/

    https://joindiaspora.com/

    http://mashable.com/2007/07/25/open-source-social-platforms/

    There doesn't have to be just one social network, there can be many that talk to each other.

  • Gary

    21 weeks ago

    Seems to me...

    That on the political end Facebook is trying to muzzle anyone who is not right wing.

    For me I think it's time to change.

  • Fiat lux

    21 weeks ago

    Went on Facebook over a year

    Went on Facebook over a year ago and it took me 3 days to realize it was a waste of time.

    Still on it, keep getting the odd message, but never bother to look, or put anything on.

    Ed Deak.

  • elbillug

    21 weeks ago

    he

    ""If your old group has enough recent activity to make it a good candidate for a new group, you will see a message at the top of the group with the option to upgrade."

    But no upgrade option was offered."

    maybe you should get the hint and move on. I held my breath for months for this HST crap to be done. And now IT IS DONE. LET IT GO ALREADY.

  • Skywalker

    21 weeks ago

    A 27 year old with $17 billion...

    ...won't give a crap about fairness or anything democratic. He'll have solidified his notion that he is one of the privileged and can do whatever he wants. elbillug is OK with that because he liked the HST. The end justifies the means and as long as people use facebook they have the power. I don't and never will.

    Some years ago telus wouldn't let you log onto the website of their union workers who were on strike. The people reacted and they changed their position. Maybe that is what needs to happen here.

  • freewilly

    21 weeks ago

    a waste of time

    "It's time to look at open source alternatives to Facebook"
    I couldnt agree more. And yes its also a waste of time. Why certain political and societal groups use facebook is a mystery to me. Its not difficult to host ones own bulletin board. If they have their own website and pay hosting fees to a reputable company, all the tools necessary are usually included.

    Not sure if facebook has an agenda. Other benign groups are being 'archived' as well, whatever that means. I guess Im getting old but I still like newsgroups and programs like major domo. Most people I talk to dont even know how to use an email program like outlook express they are all using browser based email accounts on yahoo or gmail. Even our ISP uses gmail's servers now.

  • nolanrh

    21 weeks ago

    Makes sense

    A social media group created expressly to fight a single issue being disbanded after that single issue has been dealt with?

    That makes sense to me.

  • Shannon Rupp

    21 weeks ago

    Google+ is a better option

    Bill makes some good points about Facebook, which is easily the most unethical of the social media. I'd like to add one more point: Get the hell out of Facebook.

    Social media aren't going away because they're useful for a lot of industries. So the best thing any of us can do is refuse to use FB and move to better platforms.

    Google+ just opened to the public and saw a 1200 per cent jump in sign-ups in five days. Not a coincidence. People who understand how FB works are angry about the new data mining changes.

    G+ seems to have learned a lot from all FB's mistakes and the exodus. That 800 million users number is an illusion: most people have more than one account, and many no longer log on.

  • cosmicsync

    21 weeks ago

    @vanpmaml14 and @nolanrh

    You both claim the HST is either "done" or "dealt with," yet it is still being charged and may well be for another year or more. The BC Liberals have used every trick in the book to delay, confuse and otherwise avoid doing the will of the citizens of this province with regard to the HST (among other things).

    Once the HST is gone and we have returned to the PST and its exemptions, you can say it has been "dealt with."

  • Vox.Pop

    21 weeks ago

    Facebook is a CIA Scam

    Facebook was funded from the beginning by an organization fronting for the CIA, with the intent that ALL this activity WILL be processed by the mega computers of the CIA to search for 'terrorists'.
    I tried Facebook a few times but, as a retired software developer, I was appalled at the very poor quality of the software. I walked away in disgust. Just like Bill Gates & Microsoft (also crap software), Suckerberg & Facebook are only rich because they got there first. As the US economy collapses, all this "playing around online" will disappear as millions will have to start doing real work for the first time in their lives to survive in a desperate world: playtime is over.

  • 37stan

    21 weeks ago

    HST has been dealt with?

    The day we stop paying the hst is when it has been dealt with? Looks like the face book founders are getting bored . Going to try their hand at being dictators .

  • IndyJones

    21 weeks ago

    Stuff Facebook

    Facebook, like a lot of other similar digital "conveniences", is simply not necessary. I say stuff Facebook and all the cellphone companies. All this digital junk, which constantly changes and continually costs us money, is speeding up our society and making us stupid crazy. Facebook is worth "cool $50 billion" - for what?

    A grassroots movement needs to emerge where substantial numbers of people boycott Facebook, Twitter, Rogers, Shaw and the rest of the robbers. Let them lose money. Maybe people sitting with one another at a pub, restaurant or just the bus stop will once again find pleasure talking to each other.

  • Conductor274

    21 weeks ago

    False information

    Facebook is starting what they call "Timeline". Somehow they are supposed to be able to compile each person's history going back to their birth. Check it out.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/26/tech/social-media/facebook-users-will-revolt-cashmore/index.html

    I went in and changed all kinds of info about myself. Added all kinds of false info so let's see what they do with their new scheme now. They want to play games, we can all play games.

  • ReeferMadness

    21 weeks ago

    Who cares?

    Bill, did you run out of partisan political issues to write about? Did the NDP flack who usually gives you instructions on what to write go on vacation?

    More to the point, does the Tyee actually pay you money to write this dreck? Personally, I'd be embarrassed to cash the cheque. But hey, that's capitalism for you. And you're a good capitalist, right Bill?

    Give it up, already. Facebook (the organization) is a for profit company, not a charity. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. Facebook (the website) is mainly for amusement purposes. The fact that you managed to use it to inflate your business is a bonus. You should be sending them money, not criticizing them.

  • Langley

    21 weeks ago

    Haven't logged on in years

    I set up my acct in '07 but within a year I found myself thinking 'what am I doing? 90% of my friends don't exist outside of this site...'

    I found it amusing how FB was kinda 'under the radar' for a while, then when the corporations and big labels moved in and BLAMO! The media has to mention social networking everyday(of course, the social media 'experts' began to appear in abundance) and now universities are offering courses and paying instructors to 'teach' this crap. Ka-ching!

    I'm going back to 2003 and staying there.

  • zalm

    21 weeks ago

    Fiat lux and Langley

    Don't just leave your Facebook account hanging around. It's being mined for data about you in the most unorthodox ways possible.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reasons-to-delete-your-facebook-account-2010-5

    Delete your account by following the strict instructions in various posts such as this CNET post:
    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/social/how-to-permanently-delete-your-facebook-account/392

    If you just go to Facebook and type in "delete my account" it will NOT be deleted, but archived for future use by you.... and others.

    Be careful with your data - it's one of the few things about you that's truly you.

  • mikev

    21 weeks ago

    Google+

    Google+: same shit, different pile. Not the answer to any useful question.

    The problem is not Facebook, the problem is organizing your online life with tools supplied by corporations. Corporations whose customers are not you. You are the product, processed and packaged and sold to marketing departments. They don't care about you, they only care about selling more ads. Support Diaspora.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_%28software%29

  • Tieleman

    21 weeks ago

    Bill Tieleman faces the posters

    Thanks as always for your comments. Shannon - your points on Google+ are most welcome and I intend to check it out - some friends have gone there already.

    As to ReeferMadness and others - this isn't about the HST, as I said, or about me - it's about how Facebook deals with its users and groups. There are thousands of groups with more or less members than NO BC HST and about a myriad of issues that are all being "archived".

    Facebook never gave NO BC HST the option of upgrading, but other groups did get that chance. Facebook won't explain its rationale more than its obscure statements to date.

    If this was only about an outdated format that had to be changed, why not eliminate ALL old groups? Why pick and chose some to be upgraded and others to lose all their members?

    Put aside your views about me or about the HST and address the Facebook issue - that would be far more productive.

  • igbymac

    21 weeks ago

    Facebook issue??

    Bill Tieleman: "Put aside your views about me or about the HST and address the Facebook issue - that would be far more productive."

    This issue is either you can use Facebook as they decide or you can leave, is it not?

  • surlycat

    20 weeks ago

    The root of the problem...

    It surprises me that so many people think Google + will be any different. Hello, Google is a big corporation that is in the business of tracking and information, you think they care about your privacy more than just creating a facade to convince us all to fork over all of our info?

    Lets support Diaspora. Its open source. You control and own your info. You can even host all of your info on your local machine and physically control it to boot if you decide to be super nerdy.

  • Mooney

    20 weeks ago

  • realisticman

    20 weeks ago

    "Fight the Smart Meters"

    Is this your next Facebook page Bill?

    By the way, did you see Harper today in Québec. You know what he said to Charest, "Hey, Jean, I've got this $1.6 billion that BC just gave me back, sitting in my pocket. Do you wan' it for your HST thingy?". Charest said, "If you can make it 2 billion, I'll take it". Stephen figured that since Québec is three times the size of BC that was reasonable. So he gave him the extra $400 million.

  • capedcrusader

    20 weeks ago

    Can't delete Facebook

    After I deactivated my account, I was locked out of facebook. Now, I cannot delete my account without photocopied identification. I cannot see what others post on my page nor can I do what I want to do...delete! see http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=138541339516082&v=wall

  • TYRONE

    20 weeks ago

    DON'T BE ANGRY OR ANNOYED . . .

    . . . . facebook is said to spy on people's computers, even when one is not on their page(s) at the time. They monitor your every move and which websites are being visited. I for one would be glad, if I belonged to any "facebook" group, to be archived out of there. Think about it and don't be angry!

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