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Dead Soldiers Aren't Funny
New group takes aim at military messaging.
Juarez at rally: Media casts protesters as 'silly.'
Hundreds of people criticized NATO during a protest outside Victoria's Hotel Grand Pacific September 8, but it was the naked bike rider who led the television news and whose bare butt made the cover of the following day's newspaper.
The coverage was typical of the mainstream media, says Francisco Juarez, one of the founders of the new group Military Communities Speak Out (MCSO). Often the media is more interested in a chuckle, he says, than it is in communicating ideas. The impression one gets is "gosh darn, aren't these 'protesters' some silly folks," he says. Viewers and readers get a cheap laugh, but it's at the expense of a deeper understanding of the issues.
Says Juarez, "There's no moral weight given to the arguments. That's why controlling the medium of the message is so important. We can't rely on larger media organizations to communicate our arguments."
Juarez and his partner, Diane Bedard, launched MCSO in recent weeks with a website and an e-mail address (info@milcomspeakout.ca). It is aimed at "those unsatisfied by government policy and the bias of uncritical corporate media." But here's the twist: the organization is for current and former members of the military and their families. People like Juarez and Bedard.
Buffered from reality
They modelled the organization on the 3,000-plus member American group, Military Families Speak Out. Both groups are, says Juarez, "Places for people to share their stories, really, outside the military framework." Often, he says, military families get caught in the armed forces' and governments' efforts to control the message and end up feeling silenced. It's empowering, he says, to learn you're not alone. "To unite those voices is absolutely important."
Speaking on the phone from Massachusetts, MFSO co-founder Charley Richardson says he'd heard there were Canadians talking about starting a group, but didn't know they were organized yet. "We feel the voice of military families and those who are directly impacted are very important," he says. "I think the experience of MFSO in the United States is that we bring to the conversation what we sometimes call, 'skin in the game.'"
Despite the number of casualties in Iraq, most Americans are buffered from the reality of the war. People with military experience can give a clearer picture of what it is like, he says, and what it means to give a life for a cause of dubious worth. "It is frankly easy to send someone else's loved ones off to war, certainly than it is to send your own."
MFSO formed in November 2002 as America prepared to invade Iraq. It is opposed to that war, but has not yet taken a position on Afghanistan. There is debate on whether the war in Afghanistan is just, says Richardson, though it should be seen as connected to the Iraq war. He says, "Canada's role in Afghanistan has freed up U.S. troops to be in Iraq. In that way you can't entirely disconnect the two."
Shedding the uniform
Over the past year Juarez, who grew up on the Sunshine Coast and in Vancouver, has told his own story of leaving the Canadian army because of distaste for the direction of the country's mission in Afghanistan. He still feels stung by much of what reporters did with that story, especially a November 2006 piece that ran in Maclean's magazine with the headline "A resister without a war." The article argued that Juarez had portrayed himself as a "war resister" even though there was never any guarantee he would ever be sent to Afghanistan, and in fact he would have had to volunteer to go before that happened.
"I never claimed I was more than what I was," says Juarez. "It was a lot of journalists getting their facts wrong, which was disappointing, but I couldn't do anything about it." When he transferred from the navy to the army it was in hopes of going to Afghanistan, he says, but as he read more about Canada's role there he decided he wanted no part of it. He hadn't finished training yet and the army was not about to send him to Afghanistan. "I acknowledged and I said honestly during interviews that was my situation."
And yet the stories became very personal, he says, most of them attacking his character instead of engaging with what he had to say. Combined with a return to school, they contributed to a stressful year for him. "You can't fight that stuff all the time. I wanted to fight like a pit bull, but it ends up tiring you out."
So the subtleties of his story were generally missed. When he signed up, he says, the Liberals were in power and the war in Afghanistan was being spun as a humanitarian mission. "It was after 2001 and the Canadian government under the Liberals came to the understanding in the months after the attack there was going to be a seed change and they'd have to increase the number of people in the armed forces," he says. "I felt a three year commitment with the armed forces would allow me to serve my country, because I do believe in Canada very strongly."
'A good ally'
Juarez figured the armed forces would stand for the ideals Canadians believe in. He's proud, he says, that we are a multicultural society where people are respectful of differences. There is a way of doing things and a commitment to international cooperation that makes us distinct from the United States.
But soon conservative Stephen Harper became prime minister and it became clear the country and the armed forces were moving in a new direction. As Juarez sees it, Harper was much cozier with the United States. With the conflict last summer between Israel and Lebanon, Harper was unquestioningly pro-Israel, seemingly ignorant that there was more to the story. It was not a perspective that would lead to peace, says Juarez. "I saw the road ahead as being very problematic for Canada."
Victoria Peace Coalition activist Phil Lyons says Juarez is a welcome addition to the anti-war movement. "He's a good person to work with, a good ally," he says. "He learned some things in the army that are very useful to the movement." Skills like first aid are helpful at a rally, he says, but it's the perspective Juarez brings that's key. "What's really important is you're not going to get fundamental change in this society unless you can get members of the army and the police on your side.... It's a very important piece of the opposition to the Canadian military involvement in Afghanistan and to NATO's agenda."
Canada's mission shift
While the nature of our military has shifted, says Juarez, public opinion and governing legislation haven't kept up. "A lot of people identify them as peacekeepers," Juarez says. "In actuality an army has a whole set of beliefs and actions that are unrelated to peacekeeping." At its core, as taught in infantry school, the army's purpose is to "close with" and defeat an enemy. That makes it hard for the forces to do humanitarian work. Friends who went to Afghanistan said the "humanitarian mission" story was largely a lie, he says. There were no hospitals or schools being built. The support for strengthening the country was minimal.
Instead, whatever small aid the army offered became part of the military effort. "You get people who are very poor who'll respond to a private handing out a small package of medical equipment," he says. You generate good feelings in some people in the short term. But others will understand their land is being occupied by an invading force, he says. When the army leaves, how will those two groups of people get along? "What you're doing is sowing the seeds for the escalation of the conflict."
Canadians need to take a close look at what our army is doing in Afghanistan, he says, and whether it's likely to be successful. We also need a broader discussion on what our armed forces should be doing, what values they should be representing. "We need to look at what direction we want our armed forces to go."
Juarez says he hopes Military Communities Speak Out will encourage that debate, whether by participating in rallies like the one against NATO last weekend, or by connecting people. He says, "One should be an active member. One can be critical, certainly, but one should be critical and participatory."
Related Tyee stories:
- Talking the Kids out of Soldiering
A mother resists the military's push to recruit aboriginals. - 'Operation Objection'
As drive for new enlistees picks up, so does 'counter-recruiting.' - Anti-War Movement's Strange Allies: Hard Line Islamists
Canada's progressive Muslims wonder why left would embrace theocrats.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Who Mowed Down the Premier?
- Canada's Economy, Deconstructed (by a 12 year-old)
- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
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- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
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- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
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- Why Blackberry's Embrace of HTML5 Is Good Karma
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
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- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
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- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
57
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nightbloom
4 years ago
Great story. MCSO strikes
Great story. MCSO strikes me as the right sort of people to deliver the necessary message to the Canadian public. Real people, real families, with a real stake in the policies being questioned. Any young man in uniform who refuses to be an expendable pawn of policy is going to face character-assassination for taking off the uniform. Good on Juarez for clarifying the facts, not pretending to be a star, and sticking to his message and his principles. We know who the man is.
G West
4 years ago
The trouble is - the only story that appear in the press
Is one about 'security' measures and a naked bicyclist...Monday Magazine and the Tyee notwithstanding.
Until we actually have an independent press with some balls and a wider circulation, this kind of thing is about as effective as that stupid little camera on the street corner where every drunk jean and jenny can pop in a dollar for 60 seconds of 'fame'...
Good on Juarez!
Canada needs to get out now...we're hanging with the wrong crowd again.
robin
4 years ago
i see [EDITED] is still
[PERSONALLY ATTACKING ANOTHER COMMENTER DOES NOTHING TO COUNTER HIS ARGUMENTS OR FURTHER THE DEBATE IN THIS FORUM. -TYEE EDITOR.]
G West
4 years ago
Robin
More hugs and kisses babe - I really appreciate the support. Nothing makes my point(s) more succinctly and economically than your reaction to them!
nightbloom
4 years ago
If only everyone else
If only everyone else enjoyed the same immunities and protections which 'Gwest' seems to benefit from here. I'm surprised that robin's *entire* comment was deleted. That's a little heavy-handed. I could see perhaps omitting some of the more colourful adjectives ("pathetic" for example), but deleting the entire commentary sends the message that 'Gwest' is exempt from criticism for his behaviour here, while the rest of us are obliged to do our best to fend off some of his more personal insinuations, perverse ripostes and annoying psychanalyses. And when we defend ourself too vigorously in such cases, we get an e-mail from the editor telling us to back off. 'Gwest' has given more than his fair share of lumps - I think he can receive a few too. I've been called everything from paedophile to misogynist on these threads, and no one was censored or rapped on the wrist for it - I just rolled with the punches. Wholesale deletion of robin's comment also undermines the corporate memory of the threads - I think it's healthy to know what tricks some of the commenters here have pulled in the past. Lord knows 'Gwest' is always summarizing everyone else's foibles from past threads, sometimes posting old comments from bygone threads at length over & over again.
Anyway, that's all I'm gonna say on the matter. Thanks for the reminder, robin.
G West
4 years ago
Guess I'll have to post that link again
And thanks for the advert nightbloom - how many times have you and I been advised to drop this stuff now? You should see the file I have of letters ‘from’ the editor.
Anyone who wants to know my history can read it here - along with a lot of other 'stuff' about people I'll leave unnamed:
http://thetyee.ca/Views/Teacherdiaries/2007/02/27/BoyTrouble/
As for Robin, she thinks I'm a shill - that good enough for you?
G West
4 years ago
And that spelling
"psychanalyses" is a dead giveaway of your French background nightbloom - I didn't think you were into psychology.
As for corporate memory - I can pull up a lot more material from the past anytime you're ready for it nightbloom. I thought we'd reached some kind of a modus vivendi my friend - guess not, eh?
Geoff
4 years ago
Heavy-handed, perhaps, but...
As to the substance of robin's comment (that GWest had been caught using two identities), i would have let that stand (and have in the past) if that were relevant information that was logically arrived at when debating the issue. In this case, this was the commenter's first comment and, in fact, the third comment over-all in the thread, which leads me to the conclusion that he/she is trying to pick a fight rather than debate the issue. As for "protecting" GWest, if you look back at previous stories, you'll likely see that he has been censored as much, if not more, than anyone.
G West
4 years ago
Thanks Geoff
As I've said dozens of times before and as I wrote to David Beers on the subject - I had a very good set of reasons for using two labels to post exactly the same views over exactly one year here at Tyee. I'm actually quite proud of that record.
The curious thing is that one of the main reasons I started to post as a second identity was because of things certain other posters at another site called "Tanknet" said about a homosexual Canadian Infantry officer called nightbloom. These same people then registered here to mount a vendetta of sorts against other posters here. It dates back to a time when virtually anything was tolerated - as n/b's comment about what he has been labelled reflects.
I've never mentioned that before but I'm really sick of having this come up again and again.
I posted under two identities which had two distinct email addresses - in perfect keeping with the registration rules here. I know at least handfuls of other people who do the same thing some or all of the time so I think it's time to get over it. I only post as G West now and Alcibiades is in retirement.
Furthermore, I'll take on anyone: Robin, Adamwest, Elliot, Ron Erwin, jane doe or anyone else on substantive and knowledge based issues - and I'll do it without personal references or rancour - as long as the same courtesy is extended to me.
Cheers.
And anyone who cares to discuss it with me further can contact me at garthwest@hotmail .com.
Frank
4 years ago
Multiple handles
"Caught"?
He told us. Which kind of puts a different spin on it.
Whereas SirJohnA/Nemesis/Elliot/AdamWest never actually told us he had multiple identities.
Nor do I recall Ron Erwin telling us he was also IAMC.
I think all poster's names should just be changed to Spartacus and be done with it.
dr evil
4 years ago
I am SPARTACUS
Adam west is now robin ..is that not so?
Frank
4 years ago
You're wrong
I am Spartacus, and so is my wife
dr evil
4 years ago
so you and Mrs. Spartacus
have...I`m trying not to get personal here..
have ...multiple handles?
robin
4 years ago
you're absolutely right
you're absolutely right nightbloom. GWEST is the tyee's best customer, and he holds their very left-of-center views, therefore he is immune from censure. where the editor is wrong is to determine that it is kosher for a poster to support his own arguments with multiple aliases. i repeat: any credible organization would ban such a poster. the tyee shows it's true colours by supporting such a deceptive participant.
dr evil
4 years ago
snivellers and bs`ers
The only way you dudes think you can get at
GWest is to bring up the alias thing.
Pretty chickenshit. Very petty...very small.
robin
4 years ago
sounds like you may have
sounds like you may have even less integrity than he does doctor. or maybe you are one of his aliases?
nightbloom
4 years ago
Quote:The curious thing is
What? What??? Say WHAT?????
This is the first I've ever heard of this shit. I was never an "infantry officer". Never ever. Details matter, please. And I was never called nightbloom in any other context...that's only my handle *here*...exclusively.
Care to name which posters came to mount a vendetta (presumably against "nightbloom"...i.e. me?). I just don't get it....Please explain.
Should'a nipped this cyber-Frankenstein in the bud, editors. Instead we're stuck re-hashing this silliness over & over again because you guys tolerated a high-output troll with the correct ideological alignment. I have no sympathy whatsoever for you, in this case.
G West
4 years ago
Oh baloney!
The details are all on that thread nightbloom and I've never mentioned it because I didn't want to - it didn't matter. I'd have done it for anyone ..and I'm not going to bring up the name of the person who was talking about YOU on tanknet either - because I agree with you that its old news and I'm sick of it too. The vendetta wasn't about you either - I just came across the references to you while I was chasing it down.
The terms I used above here are, as far as I can remember, reflective of what was said about a character called nightbloom - who posted at Tyee - in entries posted by others at Tanknet.
By the way, I also advised David Beers about all of this when I told him I had been posting under two different labels...
End of story. I'd never have brought it up but I am really sick of this - as for your personal remarks just above - I'll just ignore them.
Would I do the same thing again - knowing you as I now do? I'll have to think about that, but yes, probably.
robin
4 years ago
...and the story changes yet
...and the story changes yet again. you're digging deeper gman.
Frank
4 years ago
I have less integrity so...
It was Colin. A poster I actually like.
Now as I recall Colin thought nightbloom was a good guy so it wasn't that he was attacking nightbloom. It was just that he put nightbloom forward as the subject of a discussion over there.
The attacks however were against a different poster that Colin disliked and believed was lying about his life experience. He called on his tanknet friends to help him expose this poster. Which I don't think is kosher but then nobody ever said what happens on the Tyee stays on the Tyee.
Anyway, I find it ludicrous that someone on his 5th handle because his previous 4 were banned (2 before Alcibiades ever raised his head) is calling on the Tyee to kick GWest off the forum for having 2 handles.
Frank
4 years ago
Banning GWest
Hey, it just occurred to me that since Ron Erwin and the one I'll call SirJohnA-Nemesis-Elliot-AdamWest-Robin continue to post after being banned whereas guys like Lewis Swift, Deep Forbidden Lake and Ghost Machine were kicked off for good that it must mean the Tyee is protecting right-wing posters.
So does this mean GWest can't simply come back and call himself Pericles or something because he's left-wing?
I think people that are banned should not be allowed to adopt a new handle and come back the next day like so many on the Right continue to do.
Strange how they all hate this place but even banning can't keep them away.
G West
4 years ago
Robin
more hugs and kisses babe!
Frank
4 years ago
www.Tyee-tharapy.org
I think what we need here is a new website for Right-wing posters that hate the Tyee but can't stay away.
Kind of a self-help group patterned after AA.
I foresee meetings going something like...
"Hi, my name is IAMC and I'm a nutjob.."
Then Robin can stand up and say "Atta boy Ron, we're here for you buddy, me and my 5 aliases!"
At the end of the meeting they can all spit on a paper mache skull with the name GWest written on it and go home and watch Fox.
Frank
4 years ago
nightbloom
Just for the record, it was Colin that thought you were an ex- infantry officer. The rest of us just believed him.
G West
4 years ago
Frank
The problem is: although I've been trying to keep all of this together in a kind of narrative for that book I'm working on it's pretty difficult when I have to keep adding new material.
Some of the recent stuff is just too good to leave out and that post of yours just above is just another example of why I may never finish....
lovely stuff!
Frank
4 years ago
Friday night
Its friday night, we're the only ones here G. The Tyee staff are on a pub crawl, the Leftees are working on a new oppression narrative and the Rightees are setting fire to the homeless. And somewhere out there I'm sure Amor de Cosmos is smiling.
G West
4 years ago
What about the Riders?
Do they play this weekend?
A bunch of people I know have tickets for the Canuck game here on Sunday(?) - lots of excitment and the Times Colonist actually has enough heft with the added sports pages to be mistaken for a 'real' paper.
Have a good weekend...brunodexterbob has a couple new pictures up at the other place.
Last time I heard from Skookum1 he was auditioning for a part with Trailer Park Boys in Halifax...
Frank
4 years ago
Riders
Us and Calgary tomorrow at 3pm on TSN I think.
Can't get into the Canucks yet what with the Riders being on a roll.
Skookum on the Trailer Park Boys? Now that would be great.
G West
4 years ago
Thx Frank
I'll let you know more abt Skookum...3pm it is.
nightbloom
4 years ago
Well, I think this has run
Well, I think this has run its course. Let's get back on topic.
p.s. just for the record, I was enlisted in the infantry, but as an NCO, not an officer. My secondary trade was Small Arms Instructor. I have only good things to say about the experience and the people.
BLONDE PITBULL
4 years ago
names,names, names
You guys still quibbling about names? Gotta give it a rest. I personnally couldn't care less what name is with each comment. I don't believe that much is "truthful" or "open" on these sites. Giving some one you disagree a few barbs on a current topic is one thing to show a continued feud is tiresome to those of us who aren't involved. Both of you keep posting just not on that, okay?
The brain
4 years ago
Is there a comment for the story yet?
70 dead soldiers, people. They had names, lives and families.
And the szhitstick of it is that they will all have highly likely died for nothing... except, of course, 10 billion plus of military increases in spending that helps certain lobbiests sluffing themselves off as politicians for directorships and share options, or the polite word for a bribe.
Where is the truth in war? Who was it that really picked this fight? Hasn't anyone learned yet that the U.S. has picked every war they've been in for the last 40 years, that this is their foriegn policy?
When will this nation and the nation south of us finally begin to stop electing corporate lobbiests, as if they and their greed and dimwitted shortsighted, dumbed down, docile, dullard ego feed chase for fleeting power to fill their pride and prestige for all they thinkk money can buy, knows whats best for us? Wake up, people! Why are we allowing such criminals to put a monetary value on that which is priceless? They have put dollar signs on life and the environmnents that support it! Its evil! Wake up!!!!
Were electing crooks and dummies who are only out for themselves, and its blatant!
70 dead up North, here, and 3000 dead south for nothing. They will have died for nothing, other than lies and greed. And its about time that people like Francisco Juarez and Phil Lyons started to turn up the heat. And yes, our corporate sponsored media won't say a peep. And yes, the corporate lobbiests (Bush and Co.) north and south are heavily connected, as is the war itself. Tony Blair, James Baker, GW Bush, these names stand out large with Carlyle International. Harper stands out with the NCC... David Emerson stands out with his 7 directorships especially so as the minister of trade... and my God, how many MLA's have had directorships in the Liberal party in this province alone...
Time to catch on, voters. 70 dead for the mere depletion of military hardware so a mere few can make alot of dough stolen from the public coffers. Its not hard to connect the dots.
Lorne Mccuaig
Revelstoke, BC
dr evil
4 years ago
the bulls onnit
Yep..gotta agree `bout the names Blondie...if you`re writing under an alias whats it matter if you got one, two, three, etc.
Kudos to those who post their real names
Trueman, Ed, Lorne and occasional others...one thing stands out they have in common. They`re all good writers.
BLONDE PITBULL
4 years ago
dr evil, thanks. I like your
dr evil, thanks. I like your handle by the way. And I like the brain's as well certainly suits him. Some folks on here are certainly quite succinct(sp?) and eloquent. A life skill that every one should aim for. I don't see how we all can survive if we don't learn/practice it.
dr evil
4 years ago
succinct..you got the sp right
and you know ..I`m kinda ok with not knowing who a lot of posters really are or aren`t.
Always enjoy your comments BPB, I`m kind of a secret admirer
.
If I knew who you really were I would send you roses...
Well I`m off...a world to dominate..to bend to my evil will. Moo-ha-ha-ha.
G West
4 years ago
nightbloom
Thought you might be interested in this:
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/TAYSEC.html
G West
4 years ago
There's an excerpt here
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/pdf/TAYSEC_excerpt.pdf
BLONDE PITBULL
4 years ago
Roses? I love roses. Secret
Roses? I love roses. Secret admirers sending me roses that idea makes me smile. That moo ha ha ha... I've heard that before...somewhere...good luck on the world domination if thats what makes your week end a happy one.
DPL
4 years ago
This article started with
This article started with the heading "Dead soldiers arn't funny". Did 't last long till a few oh so regular posters started slinging stuff at each other. Maybe staying on subject is too difficult for some folks. Dead People are mever funny. Military or other wise. Some folks join assorted militaries for any numer of reasons, and suddenly decide they want to leave for any number of reasons. If it's a volunteer service it's fairly easy to leave . It's tough for some folks to actually do walk away but its really not up to us to debate their reasons for doing so, I'm pretty sure a lot of military , every once in a while say" I'm out of here". I know I did a few times and on my time I did leave after 22 years. I regret none of the time spent. But right about now I'm quite pleased non of my kids followed me into the forces. Especially now with this minority government trying to look so strong and to impress some other countries bosses. He really isn'timpressing that big of a crowd. My God the fellow didn't want to write his home town in an Australian Government Guest Book. Insecure, I think so. So get back on subject if you want to keep others reading this stuff.
G West
4 years ago
DPL
Nice to see you're still reading the G&M.
Did you pick this out a bit earlier last week from one of the paper's biggest cheerleaders for the war and the military?
Maybe it'll be the start of some 'real' discussion:
The stink of our failure'
Globe and Mail Update
September 10, 2007 at 1:14 PM EDT
"I left Kandahar yesterday for the fourth time in 18 months. For the first time, I left filled with shame," The Globe's Christi Blatchford wrote in her Sept. 5 article
She wrote that the Canadian mission in Afghanistan is not failing, "though its progress is measured some days in millimetres ... and it is far from perfect.
"Like those of the other donor nations whose dollars flood this place, Canada's effort in this country has suffered from a surfeit of good will and a lack of hard-nosed resolve to make funds contingent upon action on the internal corruption that is rife in Afghanistan and the fledgling government of President Hamid Karzai.
"Rather, what stuck in my nostrils was a failure of nerve: Canada, I fear, has lost its collective stomach for this exercise. It's too tough, too hard, too damn slow, and the cost -- 70 lives down and, as an Ottawa-datelined story I read yesterday jauntily noted, 'and counting' -- is too great."
Do you think this is a failure of 'nerve'? Because I don't. I think it has been a bad job from the moment we decided to throw in with the Americans who themselves had lost their focus and moved on to Iraq...
You do have to wonder about a Prime Minister so deracinated that he can't pick a place to "be from"....
BLONDE PITBULL
4 years ago
Sorry, didn't mean to distract...
DPL, your so right, nothing funny about death to the human animal from what ever the background. We all cry, scream, sob, rage, ache from it when it happens to someone we know.
G West
4 years ago
Blonde Pitbull
Nice to see you back here again - like dr evil - I always enjoy your contributions - on topic or not!
cheers
BLONDE PITBULL
4 years ago
GW
I usually stop in and read...but I haven't had much to say lately mostly because someone else says it for me. Good to know that you all notice I'm gone, tho. Take care.
G West
4 years ago
This is taken from a Senlis Council Report
It deals with the Canadian effort(s) and their shortfalls in the Kandahar theatre.
Following US policies is turning Kandahar into a suicide mission for Canada
Canadian troops and Afghan civilians are paying with their lives for Canada’s adherence to the US government’s failing military and counter-narcotics policies in Kandahar. The US-led counter-terrorist operations and militaristic poppy eradication strategies have triggered a new war with the Taliban and other insurgent groups, and are causing countless civilian deaths. To a large extent, it can be said that Operation Enduring Freedom and the related militaristic counter-narcotics policies are significant contributors to the current state of war in Kandahar and the other southern provinces. Canada and the international community continue to seem to unquestioningly accept America’s fundamentally flawed policy approach in southern Afghanistan, thereby jeopardising the success of military operations in the region and the stabilisation, reconstruction and development mission objectives. The Canadian mission in southern Afghanistan must respond to three equally important crises:
1. The Poverty Crisis
After five years of international presence in Afghanistan and the establishment of a democratically elected government, little has been achieved to relieve the extreme poverty of the majority of the rural Afghan population in Kandahar province. The substantial efforts and vast amounts of funds provided for the establishment of stability and security in Afghanistan have not been matched by comparable measures in terms of development. The basic needs of the local population are not being met and as a result the population is giving its support back to the Taliban and other local power-holders.
2. The Opium Crisis
Forced poppy crop eradication has dramatically contributed to the acceleration of the deteriorating security and poverty situation in Kandahar. The most disquieting consequence of this ineffective counter-narcotics policy is that it has intensified the local power games. The allegiance of local populations is now shifting away from support for the international community and the central government towards Taliban insurgent factions which are regaining power by cashing in on growing local disillusionment.
Emphasis mine...more to follow
G West
4 years ago
conclusion
3. The Security Crisis
Although in 2001 a high security threat existed in Afghanistan, the current state of war has been triggered by the very interventions which were intended to counteract the Taliban and Al Qaeda. The security crisis has been produced by a combination of an aggressive international military presence, confusion surrounding the military mission and objectives, and a lack of respect and understanding for the local communities in Afghanistan. Innocent civilians have been the victims of the coalition’s counter-insurgency interventions in Kandahar province with no proper response to those deaths. Until now, the international community’s response to these interlinked crises has been largely ineffective.
Security, development and counter-narcotics policies have operated independently of one another with counter-narcotics and military responses given priority over responding to the poverty and development crises. The multi-dimensional nature of Afghanistan’s crisis situation requires a comprehensive and coordinated response, where each of the three crises is awarded equal importance. Additionally, none of the policy areas should be allowed to undertake operations that undermine achievements in other areas. The most blatant example of this lack of critical policy integration is that the US-led forced poppy crop eradication campaigns have been allowed to be pursued in Kandahar province, despite the extremely negative effect these policies have on the security and poverty levels.
There does not seem to be any learning process underway regarding the results of US military presence in Kandahar. Actions and policies implemented have not been successful, or have in fact exacerbated the dynamics (in particular the support of the Taliban in this province) that initially brought the international community to Kandhahar. Historically no foreign military presence has gained steady control of the southern parts of Afghanistan. The United States has been unable to do so in the years since 9/11 and it is not anticipated that the Canadian military will have any different experience if it continues to follow and support US policies there.
You can find lots more here:
http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/publications/013_publication/con_rec
Just listened to Noreen McDonald of Senlis speak about how far the pictures pee wee and Hillyer are painting of Canada in Kandahar are from reality and it is not a pretty scene. Lives are being wasted for little or no real progress. Refugees are not being helped - food is scarce or non-existent for children and families, the CIDA projects in the area McDonald recently visited are disasters: In a recent poll of 17,000 Afghan males, the majority of respondents said they thought the Taliban were going to win....
G West
4 years ago
And, if you still think
If you still think that 70 dead Canadians is a small price to pay for REAL progress in the Canadian zone of influence then you've been listening to pee wee and and his press mavens.
Maybe you should read this report:
http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/publications/publications/025_publication/documents/CIDA_Unanswered_questions
Which reflects the situation (and CIDA shortcomings and outright lies) to August 2007.
And pay particular attention to this as well:
http://www.senliscouncil.net/documents/Hospital_Report
Enough "on topic" material for you?
Then, when you're done - spend a little time trying to find any of this in the candy-coloured reports in the MSM.
cheers, and good luck to the MCSO - they have an uphill battle on their hands.
DPL
4 years ago
Thanks for getting this
Thanks for getting this thing back on track G.West.
The truth seems to evade a lot of folks. we got into this mess sort of backwards when the Liberal government turned down George's offer to go shoot up Iraq. The mission changed considerably as the troops headed south.Harper wasn't one to cut and run, but of course Harper wouldn't have to do the running.
Firts there was to be no public appearences at Trenton as the bodies came back. That changed but the bodies list kept getting bigger.
To the locals, we are simply part of the same gang who showed up there to get rid of the mastermind behind 9/11. Money keeps heading that way but who gets to see it?
One may ask are the kids on the side of the road better off now than before? Did hauling in long range guns and now ever bigger tanks really help the folks caught in the middle.
We are fighting against guys working out of half ton trucks and the odd horse. They are fighting a occupier. Canada is identified as the occupier. Each day we hear of more Taliban leaders getting killed. If the numbers are right the bad guys are recruiting quite well.
What has it cost us just getting fuel to some tank that even driving down a local road results in injury to a couple of army guys walking along side the thing?
How many thousands of person hours are going into the daily Herc flights in and out of the place. Do we get to ride in US helicopters for gratis? The arms companies are having a great time as your neigbour kids are getting killed or worse, badly maimed.
Gwynne Dyer has written a couple of pretty good books on that going on in that part of the world. "The mess they made" is his latest , the other "With every Mistake" shows some of the movers and shakers in that zone.
A local on line magaine The Straits sometimes post his articles. You may or may not agree with any one but after readings from other places one might be able to form a sensible opinion. The reporter Christi Blatchford has softened her tone since her first trip. Everone was like a brother etc etc. They arn't her brother, she is a reporter paid to write nice homey articles, they are young soldiers getting their asses shot off, and for what reason might we ask?
Can't ask because that would have folks calling us Taliban Jack or some other stuff. This is a sad state of affairs. We should get out of the place.
Sometime soon the enemy becomes a business associate. George has had his eye on Iran for sometime , but lets not get too buddy body with that lame duck president. he really wants to shoot up the place before his days runs out. It's harmful to your health. settle down a bit Steve and Co. and clean up some issues right here in Canada.
G West
4 years ago
Still not much going on here DPL
I wondered if you did notice this quote from Alan Greenspan:
He also elaborated further in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, where he said this: (In answer to the bolded remark from the interviewer)
Tell me about your views on the importance of deposing Saddam.
My view of the second Gulf War was that getting Saddam out of there was very important, but had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction, it had to do with oil. My view of Saddam over the 20 years … was that he was very critically moving towards control of the Strait of Hormuz and as a consequence of that, control of the oil market. His purpose would be very much similar to [Venezuelan President Hugo] Chavez’s actions and I think it would be very dangerous for us. So getting him out to me seemed a very important priority.
The complete interview with Greenspan is available here:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2007/09/17/qa-greenspan-on-bubbles-saddam-cheney-and-bernanke/
The brain
4 years ago
Interesting stuff
Glad I didn't give up on this thread. Appreciate your efforts, G.
G West
4 years ago
Hey Lorne
How was the harvest this year...and the price of wheat?
margot
4 years ago
gwynne dyer
In 2001, Dyer was touring Canada telling high school students and anyone else listening that Canada was obligated to fight in Afghanistan by NATO Article 5. It was not true.
margot
4 years ago
Outremont
I squirmed through the CBC pundits on the by-election.
Only the Canadian Peace Alliance seemed to get it:
"The outcome of yesterday’s by-election in Outremont should be seen as a referendum on Canada’s role in Afghanistan. The New Democratic Party, which focused its campaign on the war, won over 48 per cent of the vote. A clear majority of Quebeckers opposes the war in Afghanistan and, in Outremont, voted for the only major party calling for the troops to be brought home now."
Colin
4 years ago
Sad and pathetic
Having Francisco Juarez as your spokesperson is not a great way to start a activist group. His claim to fame is silly and he has made himself the laughing stock of miltary personal of all ranks by his claims. I think he just craves and enjoys the attention. Quite sad and pathetic.
G West
4 years ago
Colin
Gee, that sounds a lot like Ricky Hillyer.
What could be wrong with that? Fella can’t resist the magnetic flux of a microphone…
How anyone of any intelligence can actually listen to Ricky and his best bud Don Cherry when they start to emote about the Canadian Military is beyond me.
BTW, Did you read that Senlis council stuff? - sure doesn't sound to me as though all the impressive stories from the hood are all that positive...
Colin
4 years ago
Senlis Council
Although I don't agree with everything they write, I do agree with the proposal to buy up the opium crop and I think they should slowly work in a requirement to plant feed crops. I suspect such a program will be expensive and will take a decade, but could be done. You will need to be able to provide security to carry out such a program and that means having troops on the ground.
Even the council realize that a complete withdrawl is not good for Afghanistan. Funny how they change their core mandate in 2006 from concerns about drug eradication programs and drug abuse to being more anti-NATO, I guess that's where the real fund-raising money is.
Well considering under O'Conner and Hiller, the Canadian military received their first new cargo aircraft within 18 months of proposal and for the same money that the Liberals were going to buy 66 top heavy armoured cars, we are now getting 100 fairly modern gun tanks and 20 armoured engineering vehicles, they can talk all they want. O'Conners only failing is he makes a lousy politican, to busy getting things done to play the game well. You guys hate Hiller because he is effective and successful in getting the message across that the Military is not just another department of the government.
G West
4 years ago
I don't hate Hillier
I think he's just a goof and not much more than a shill a kind of Don Cherry in Camo - which is fine - but enough of the phony bs about saving the world for democracy and hockey night in Canada. The fact the military are so impressed with him says volumes in my opinion.
O'Connor is simply incompetent - and has managed to be not much more than Hillier's dog. McKay, from first appearances seems to recognize we've done about all we can in country and it's time to step back from a combat role that has been nothing short of a disaster. We can't even manage to clear the roads the CF uses exclusively - let alone actually create some new infrastructure and feed the refugees the American air strikes have created.
G West
4 years ago
And, about that $189 Million
For the old unusable Leopard tanks that O'Connor had flown over at great expense last fall.
Will the military be using the new heavy lift air capacity to bring those stinkers home or will they be rusting in the sands alongside the old Russian T34s long after we’ve pulled out and come home.
Moreover, what idle red-shirted military rah-rah has done to the once proud and independent CBC is even worse. Disband the whole bungling bunch of them before our reputation as in independent country is totally ruined. Thank God Bush at least will soon be gone.