Some people think high rents are desirable

I enjoyed reading this article even though the last time I rented was twelve years ago. We rented the top floor of a home two blocks off Main at East 46th for $1200 per month, plus utilities. It had three bedrooms, all rather small, and the kitchen and only bathroom were quite compact.

This year we noticed that house, dating from the late 1950s or early 1960s, had been demolished to make way for a mini-monstrosity house, which no doubt sold for well over a million.

Prior to that I rented a one-bedroom apartment in a three story building in Kitsilano for $700 per month. When the landlord raised the rent to $800, in spite of less than zero sound-proofing and zero security for bicycles or tenants' suites, I resolved to move.

I think people need to remember that there's a prominent school of thought in Vancouver which holds high housing prices and high residential rents in great esteem. They see it as a symptom of economic good health and a sign that we are encouraging intensive use of land and buildings, a sort of environmental good news story. Needless to say, the professional advocates of this viewpoint are not hunting for apartments on the same budget as Ms Addleman.

Steath camping by Motorhome

If you park in a area with lotsa yuppies nobody knows their neighours so a visiting motorhome for a week or so goes unnoticed. Areas with lots of apartments like the Westend and Kits are easy peasy.

Make sure that the windows are light blocked so nobody knows your unit is occupied.Just park it on the street and change locations occasionally so as not to piss off the locals.

You can often buy a motorhome for a couple of thousand in your trusty Craigslist- Sometimes even free. Saw one where the wife was offering the first comer $200 to just get it off the property.

Vans, pickups with canopies and campers are also useful.

I saw a perfectly usable Lumina van for $200 in the Bellingham craigslist. Remember you only have to drive your unit a few blocks every week so gas and mechanical fitness are not big factors. Rent a storage locker, or a small office if needs.

Gym memberships are a useful accessory. It's relatively easy to pick up WiFi from a local library if you park nearby or use the new Roger's or Bell portable internet terminals. Libraries are often handy to charge your batteries.

You are pretty cute, you could have lots of boy/girl friends platonic or otherwise, for occasional or often overnights.

Me I've lived in vans and canopy equipped pickups in Vancouver for years and nobody was ever the wiser. And I always stayed close to work during the week and close to the beach on weekends.

Having friends romantic and otherwise was always helpful. One year I think I stayed in my van about 3 times. I had seven different girl friends at the time. Turns out another guy working at the same place was doing the same thing parked right behind me - different girl friends though.

Spent a lot of time in the longbox pickup canopy. The van or pickup with a canopy uses a lot less gas if you need to drive a lot. You need to insulate the canopy/box or van cargo areas. I recommend the interlocking half inch foam concrete floor panels you see at crappy tire.

I removed the pickups rear cab window for stealthy access to the canopy so you could pull in to just about any neighbourhood crawl in the back and have a wonderful sleep.

Lunch buffets like Uncle Willies are a very economical way to eat. If you hit them at the end of lunchtime, you can often wait out the half hour until dinnertime service and get the better food at the cheap price.

I used to live in Longueil and dreamed of this life but it was too freaking cold.

The cost to live this way. Almost nothing!!!!

Welcome to Vancouver.

way off base

the focus of this series of articles and this overall issue is NOT on rental houses at $1800/mo. to smugly brag about being able to afford that and thinking it's such a great deal is totally out of keeping with the theme here.

at issue is the high demand for rooms for $600/mo or less, 1BRs for $800/month or less, and 2BRs for $1000/mo or less - and the lack of vacancies thereof (unlike in montreal, for example). and this in a province, mind you, that has seen its minimum hourly wage frozen at a stupendously sub-poverty level for nearly a decade.

would you have your friendly neighborhood baristas and servers and housecleaners and cashiers stacked in bunkbeds alongside strangers, sir? oh, you would? fine then. but get your family ready for when the neighborhood won't be nearly so friendly, for that day is fast approaching.

what good will your 4BR rented house be to you (BTW: why haven't you bought already? bad credit?) when bricks and rocks start flying through windows? when labradoodles are drowned in inground pools? when flaming rags are stuffed into the gas tanks of new audis, volvos and hummers?

it doesn't take much to spark a riot.
and you, sir, are not much.

Sad Lack of Concern

jrb, while I understand your sentiment, threatening and browbeating The_Scribe is surely a waste of time.

The_Scribe's type of arrogance and clear lack of awareness and concern for the realities of Vancouver's housing crisis is emblematic of many Vancouverites. Informing and educating are the only effective salves we have.

The_Scribe said:

"I am not sure why there is a perception of no rentals."

There is a perception of no rentals simply because the facts, as stated in the article and easily found if you cared enough to take a minute to look for yourself, are "with a vacancy rate of 0.5 per cent and the second-highest average monthly rent in the country, this city is in the midst of a housing crisis...."

That is not preception, that is fact.

The_Scribe, congratulations. You are in a very lucky spot indeed to be able to afford the kind of rent you are paying. Clearly, however, you do not represent the vast majority of renters and potential renters in this city who must find housing at rates well below $1,000 per month.

I would remind you that since the beginning of the year there have been well over 100,000 job losses in this province, and that a large share of those occurred here in Vancouver. The housing situation is only going to get worse (especially now that that sociopath Gordon Campbell has been re-elected) before it gets better.

We're in for a rocky ride in this city and in this province. The_Scribe, would you like to be one of the concerned and caring few who are trying desperately to make a change for the better and to help out their less fortunate neighbours, or would you rather just continue to float along on the ship of I Don't Care 'cause I Got Mine?

@seth

I admire your resourcefulness, but your plan only works for those who don't have kids. Some of us rent and have families to think of.

jrb: The answer is YES!

jrb
would you have your friendly neighborhood baristas and servers and housecleaners and cashiers stacked in bunkbeds alongside strangers, sir? oh, you would? fine then....

The answer is YES! That's exactly what some of these people want, a Whistler-type economy of high real estate prices supported by service industry workers living in steerage class conditions.

As I tried to point out earlier there's an entire school of thought in Vancouver, subscribed to by many popular intellectuals with their own websites, public platforms, media reputations, etc., who hold that high prices and high rents for residential accommodation are a good thing, the primary indicator of economic health as far as they're concerned.

I have had people tell me with a perfectly straight face that as more and more and tinier and tinier "suites" are carved out of existing houses, and rented at "world-class", the easier it is to rationalize the high price those houses are sold for! These are the people who keep on praising Vancouver as "such a beautiful city", and who regard anyone questioning these price levels or complaining about the smug propaganda as some kind of nerd who just doesn't get it.

None of these advocates of high prices has ever reckoned with the fact that the rental market has to clear based on existing wages, and that eventually advertising the weather doesn't cut it. At some point, there will be out-migration to suburban and rural locations and to other provinces.

If overseas buyers begin to sell large numbers of vacant condos, or just decide to rent them out, there will be immediate downward pressure on either the resale or the rental markets with eventual consequences for both. For the next several months, watch closely for big media pieces designed to reassure people that the Vancouver market is stable, only limited downside risk, no need to panic, etc.

decisions decisions

rent or food, rent or food, rent or food?

In a tight market

I still believe the best way to find somewhere to live is to pick a few neighborhoods with apartment buildings and then pound the pavement with a cellphone in hand, calling immediately all the vacancies you see. I've been successful three times with this method. Frequently you will be able to see the apartment on the spot if the manager is there and you avoid the cattle calls.

Skip Craigslist and the newspaper classifieds. They are a waste of time.

In South Granville in the last few months vacancy signs have been increasing and the duration that they stay up has become longer.

Yawn! Another wide-eyed

Yawn!

Another wide-eyed newbie pens another sad sad story about same old/same old-must be tough to drum up new content after the election we just had.

FYI-I see 2 signs on my street alone in Kitsilano and more on neighbouring streets-if there are that many signs up many many more apartments are on offer with place like Craigslist.

Sam Salmon: For how long? At what price?

FYI-I see 2 signs on my street alone in Kitsilano and more on neighbouring streets-

How long have these signs been up? At what price are they offering to rent?

I used to rent what used to

I used to rent what used to be a cold storage room (no windows, no heat and the walls perspired) for $450 a month... gosh. Seems like a bad dream now.

Screw Vancouver.

Bring Back Co-op Housing Programs

Yeah we've all seen various versions of this one. There's a different "wide-eyed newbie" tale of rental housing woes every year in the Whistler papers.

Lack of affordable housing is not just an issue in Vancouver, it is happening everywhere in BC that still has an economy. When I had to leave my previous place it took me over a year to find a decent place I could afford. In the meantime, my possessions remained in storage and I worked out of camp and camped or stayed with friends and family on time off.

Meanwhile one of my co-workers is bragging to me how he has a brand new 5 bedroom home with a deck and garage on a rent to own deal for $525/mth. That's the kind of deal members of Indian bands are getting compliments of the Canadian taxpayer.

It's still whine, whine, snivel snivel though.

It wouldn't seem so unfair if the federally funded co-op housing program was not axed back in the 80s. I know a lot of people in Vancouver who enjoy beautiful apartments, duplexes and even houses whose cost is pegged to their incomes and who will, as cooperatives, own the properties outright once the mortgages are paid out.

Our governments is much more concerned with bailing out sunset industries and privatizing public assets so that foreign shareholders can turn a profit rather than using our resources to fund formerly excellent programs like this for the benefit to all British Columbians and thus freeing more market rental units for the newbs.

Who's to Blame?

A recent article in the Globe & Mail on a study performed by a foundation started by Bing Thom, suggests that the empty condos owned by overseas speculators is mostly a myth. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/empty-condo-myths-untrue-research-shows/article1151247/

So, now that we can't blame overseas speculators, who do we blame?

Oh, we blame the fundamentals of our economy, the desirable weather and landscape of the lower mainland and all those fools who aren't happy to stay in Winnipeg and Regina.

So what are they supposed to do?

So, Vancouver expensive. Nobody can live here in an unskilled worker's salary, or a recent uni grad for example.

This is a fair point, and not at all contrary to what the article says, In fact, it's fully consistent! It does miss the point that even skilled worker's and semi-professional's wages aren't keeping pace with Vancouver rents and prices, but why quibble?

The point is, what are these workers supposed to do? Vancouver hasn't eliminated the need for skilled workers, semi-professionals or unskilled workers, so if these jobs are to be filled, where is that labour supply supposed to live?

Ahhhhh....

"The point is, what are these workers supposed to do?"

They commute from suburbs. Have a look at the Skytrain in the morning. It is packed.

Have a look at the growth in Surrey and Langley. That is where people are living.

Vancouver has never been affordable. I still live in the same little townhouse I scraped a down payment on 20+ years ago and it was lean livin' for ten years after that. Not going to change, either.

They commute from suburbs.

OKay. So why is Metro Vancouver still pushing the idea of saving money on transport infrastructure (and they say, reducing GHGs) by "encouraging" people to live close to work in "complete communities"?

lame i know

i'd be happy to rent you my 600 sf condo for cheap, if i wasn't paying $1400 a month for the mortgage......

Deals

Until a couple of months ago I was renting a large (700 square foot) 1 bedroom apartment in the West End (west of denman) for just under 1K. It was a good building and the apartment had hardwood floors. I've seen smaller places advertised for closer to $800 in that neighbourhood.

When this recession hit I noticed a lot more for rent signs around, compared to 2 years ago. I treat official vacancy numbers with a grain of salt. Those figures are only published once a year by stats canada and do not include condos or basement suites.

But yeah, it is more expensive here then in Montreal.

No doubt rental housing is expensive

in most parts of the province. One of the reasons is the high property taxes in BC. Perhaps if local governments reduced this burden, rents would decrease. The province could help out by providing rental property owners with the same grant that is now given to homeowners.

or just give up on this region.

if rents and /or real estate prices are a certain percentage higher in one region than in other regions, but income averages are not higher by an equal percentage, then it is prudent to relocate to a region where things are more balanced and less askew.
if someone is making $15/hr or $30K/yr, for example, and is having difficulty find much selection in affordable housing here, they will find other areas of the country where the same income will get them much more.
insisting on staying in a particular location for only sentimental or superficial reasons, when one could go elsewhere and maximize the utility of his or her income, makes any subsequent complaints about one's hard lot seem blatantly and needlessly self-pitying.
think about where you can get the best overall deal and ... go there.

Dearth of rental accommodation

One year ago February 2008 I was told I had to move to make room for his sister. After five years, I had three months to find a new two bedroom apartment with two caveats I need to have at least one entrance in the building that is wheelchair accessible, and if the apartment is on any higher floor than ground level I need an elevator.

I used Craig's list (totally useless) to rental companies (useless) any paper that had a apartment rentals, word of mouth, wheeling around on the street and calling from my cell phone any posted vacancies. I called all my friends, all my associates and board members (I do a lot of volunteer work) and asked them to keep an eye out for any vacancies for me.

In Mid March I hired a moving company that had storage facilities so that I had a safe place to store my stuff if I could not find a place. I arranged short time accommodation (two weeks would be all I could afford) if necessary.

Finally I found a place two weeks before my move. The rent was higher, the place is smaller but I have a place.

Now in my three month search I was able to find only three apartments that filled my needs. All were higher rent, but I did the interviews and handed the landlord/manager a kind of resume about myself and son and our incomes.

One called back but the suite was dismal, dark and damp. So I refused the offer. One landlord did not call me back. The third had me fill in an application and called me the next day to say I got it.

I have to enter by the underground parking and exit by a fire door BUT it is clean, bright, friendly and safe.

I am not eligible for subsidized housing, I am not eligible for co-ops because they can not use my LTD as income so market housing is what I have to use.

The rental situation here is dire, my second son has moved in with me because on his wages he can not afford anything decent or safe in Vancouver.

This is real life dealing with the housing in Vancouver. we are all three months away from being out on the street.

blueknitca

Thanks for that.

blueknitca: Vivian is right

Thanks for sharing in somewhat painful detail the human reality of the rental market.

It's often overlooked by would be economics majors that the market for housing, owned or rented, has characteristics quite different than markets for most other goods or services. Housing services must meet individual and family needs to a much greater degree than most goods, and changing from one unit to the other involves major costs.

Supply/Demand/Tax Structure.

Between 1981 and 2006 the population of Montréal grew by roughly 20%. The population, over the same time frame, in Vancouver it grew roughly 40%.

During the 1980's there were federal tax benefits for builders and owners of apartment buildings (MURBs).

Previous to that, a long way back, successive waves of immigrants settled in Montreál during it's golden years as the financial centre of Canada, the centre of the railways as well as a multitude of manufacturing from steel to clothing. Thousands of apartment buildings were built. Toronto has taken over finance, Pearson is far, far busier than Dorval/Trudeau, much manufacturing has moved down the 401 or offshore, etc., and don't start me on the politics. The dwellings remain but many people have moved on.

There's the answer.

Puzzling Rental Scene

I've been really puzzled about the rental market situation. I put ads on several roommate places, including Craigslist. I was offering shared accommodation where the other person would have the whole bottom floor to themselves, with some shared areas. With pictures of what a nice place it is, although an older home, close to transit, stores etc.

It seemed that most people wanted to live in the downtown core, so although the place was clean, spacious, with great yard, fully furnished, decent roommate (me) I had very few bites. I even lowered the price a couple of times.

I was actually shocked at how unreliable some of the callers were - not showing up for viewings, no call to explain, but calling again the next day to see if they could come. Um, no. Young people e-mailing several times, totally interested, come to town, never hear a word from them. I gave up and decided the roommate thing ain't for me. It's too much like dating.

I became even more puzzled when a friend has looked for roomies and he has a place that can charitably be called a ....hole and he's had quite a bit of luck finding people to live in his dark, dank basement with big dog, cats and chaos. Go figure.
But, I've been much more selective in screening. I've rented for the last 20 years in Vancouver, I've always found decent places, even with cats.

Strata fascists

I only leave in Vancouver 1/2 a year and would love to tent my condo, but I cannot as my strata as a clause that I totally dismissed as stating that I could rent the place (when I first read the rules), but upon further reading a few years after, discovered --to my bewilderment-- that I could not. Aren't those strata rules not restricting the supply of rentals, artificially jacking up "legitimate" rentals. Maybe everyone breaks those rules, using a loophole I don't know about, but my condo is vacant for 6 months of the year. BTW, I am about to sell this condo (was last year, but circumstances beyond my control prevented me to), in a few years now that prices have stagnated --if not depreciated.

Making assumptions demonstrates ignorance

@jrb While I appreciate your intellectual response, I felt I should make a couple of corrections:

- in the fifth paragraph of the article, Ms Addleman indicates that she is looking at paying $600 for 1/3 of a rental unit, making the total rent $1800/mo. So, while she does not know her roommates, and I do, we are still dealing with a similar total rent.

- I was not bragging about what I can afford, I was offering an illustration that if you look, you can find deals. Ms Addleman could round up 2 roommates and live in the townhouse that I turned down and pay less than $600/mo.

- I haven't bought, because prices are too high. I plan on buying in 2010. And FWIW, my credit is very good because I don't spend beyond my means.

@SicPreFix: I see that I was not clear in my statement. You are correct that the published vacancy rate is 0.5%, but what I wanted to highlight, is that this rate does not take into account illegal basement suites, or private condos, houses, or townhouses that are available for rent. It only considers legal, designated rental units. As such, there are many units available that are not included in the official stat.

Can you provide a source for your statistic that most renters can pay under $1000? If Ms Addleman's situation is typical, then many of the sub-$1000 renters could get together and rent a house or townhouse in Burnaby and cut their rent. Or are the 'burbs too boring?

Finally, to both of you, while posting anonymously to a web-site does allow for far less concern with what we say, or how we say it. I suggest both of you stop making silly assumptions about people based on a single post, it simply displays your ignorance for all to see.

@crh The opposite of what you typed. The rents on Craigslist are often higher than what the place will actually rent for, and with a simple request the rent might be cut.

East Van whatever

"think about where you can get the best overall deal and ... go there."

I know way too many people who put with crappy living conditions so they can live in East Van. For most people, there are various affordable options, but you just can't be too picky about the location.

Rod Smelser, that Yuppie dogma means nothing to the working class. Its going to be fun watching the real estate economy fall apart. I want to see the the Yuppie scum crying in their lattes.

The rental market is loosening up now. I've been in various parts of Greater Vancouver and seen many FOR RENT signs. More than I've seen in recent memory. The thing about Vancouver is a good part of the population has to go when they lose their jobs (move back to their hometown or in with Mom and Dad).

reality_check

You are right, those strata by-laws are completely part of the problem. I'd love to see the province make it illegal to restrict the rental of strata properties.

Not True

"Vancouver has never been affordable."

Not true. Check out an old copy of the Van Sun from 1965. Two columns the whole length of the paper with sleeping rooms and bed sits for $30-50 a month. This at a time the minimum wage was $1. per hr. (20- 30% of income) A friend paid $50 a month for a bed sit in Kits in 1968. In 1970 I paid $25 a month, my share of the rent of a duplex. 1977 $125 for a 2 bed house, East End. Paid $220 for a 1 bedroom apt. in the West End, 1980. etc.

Things started to go off the wall in the mid 1980's.

Welcome...

Katie,

Welcome to The Best Place on Earth (TM). However, once you get past the smoke and mirrors and scratch below the surface, what you find may be kind of ugly.

Try London...

Vancouver is certainly expensive for Canada. But the prices seem downright affordable compared to London, UK. I currently pay £476 for the smallest room in a three-bedroom, two storey flat. In Vancouver, I shared a one-bedroom apartment that was going for a little less than $900 a month.

Patiently Waiting: I agree completely!

Patiently Waiting
Rod Smelser, that Yuppie dogma means nothing to the working class. Its going to be fun watching the real estate economy fall apart. I want to see the the Yuppie scum crying in their lattes.

I agree completely, though I do like a Starbucks myself now and again, ... like about three times a day!

The grass is greener

We found that the secret to affordable rent in Vancouver was to rent a house, then sublet the rooms to others. The longer you stay in a rental, the relatively cheaper your rent will be, as rent control limits rent increases while you remain. Be careful of your landlord/sublettee duties, and enjoy better living! You need a good interviewing ear to pull this off.

Apartment rents are astronomical, and the source of much couch-renting. Downtown and Kits are particularly guilty of the highest prices because of the high demand. However if you are willing to bike to work, you can get there just as quickly as if you live near a skytrain station and enjoy many lovely rooms a little off the beaten path in east van. As soon as I moved off of either Commercial or Broadway, things looked up. Pockets of affordability remain. And, yes, the beautiful rentals of Montreal are very scarce in this recently built city.

Some Stats

Hey,

I too enjoyed the article. I just did the math using census canada stats for Metro Vancouver between 2001 and 2006 10,700 rental dwellings disappeared in Vanocuver. At the same time the number of owned dwellings increased by 69,080.

If you look at the percent of all dwelllings that are rentals between 1996 and 2006 there is a consistent drop:
40.60%(1996) 38.98%(2001) 34.88%(2006)

As would be expected as the number of available rental dwellings declines while population goes up the cost of rent goes up and the vacancy rates drop. The value of dwelling going up faster then income means that most housing is beyond the means of Vancouverites to purchase, thus the owned dwellings are not afforadable.

All of this points to a major housing crisis in Vancouver, and everything seems to be pointed towards a continued housing crisis.

I'm currently in Paris where I could if I wanted to purchase a studio apartment in the heart of Paris (not the suburbs) for a cost well within my price range(I've found apartments here for as little as 68,000 Euros or 100,000 dollars). I can't say the same for Vancouver. These Parisan apartments are small generally 250 - 500 square feet, but at least they are available on the market and for a price that is affordable for many low income people (Incomes in Paris are comparable to incomes in Vancouver except that Parisians are paid in Euro's which are more valuable than the Canadian dollar).

Until planners and policy makers start to address the housing crisis in Vancouver we will never be a truely world leading city.
Lets hope we can solve this problem

echman: Good post!

Thanks for the Census information, and the report from Paris. I agree with the conclusion in your last paragraph, but would simply repeat my basic point. The Establishment and their supporters like it the way it is. For them, high prices and rents are good thing that they have worked long and hard to achieve, and they're not interested in solving this problem because for them, ... it's not a problem, it's an opportunity!

Paris?

It is all about supply and demand. Comparing Paris or Berlin (both of which have an oversupply due to reasons well beyond anything that could be considered as planning) to Vancouver is an excersize in self justification.
There is no way with today's costs you can build a 500 sq ft apartment and sell it for 100K. Unless you plan to allow for slave labour or will work for free in order to provide cheap housing. Vancouver is young and grew too fast with little planning and multitudes of bad decisions...like most if not all cities in North America.
Too bad the basic economics of supply and demand on the Tyee always ends up being a rant about The Man and (his) conspiracy to gouge the prols. "The Establishment and their supporters..." LOL

where there's a will (and money) there's a way.

my hat goes of to the_scribe and to countrytype.

you're right, scribe:
$1800/month rent really isn't too much of a splurge at all for a couple with two decent (hard-earned and well-deserved, i'm sure) incomes. and, yes, 2010 looks to be the year for finally getting the most out of your down payment savings.

countrytype is also a smart cookie.
renting, say, a 3BR apartment at $1500 and sub-letting the remaining two rooms at, say, $600 each reduces your effective rent to $300 and gives you access to more overall floor space, better surroundings, and the ability to choose better roommates than if you were to go searching for a $300-600 room yourself.

admittedly, not everyone is in the positon to adopt these strategies, but it's nonetheless heartening to see that there are people out there who are oriented more towards creating solutions than lookng for excuses.

Follow up

Another sort of advantage to European countries is the presence of large ammounts of non-market/or sort of market housing. From what I can tell a large percent of housing in European countries is public housing. The advantage being you can house people who couldn't afford housing otherwise. It's not perfect but is necessary in cities where geography restrict the outward expansion of the city. The best example of a city with large ammounts of public housing is Hong Kong. Apparently Hong Kong has the largest public housing system ourside of former/current communist countries. I always found this ironic since the city is considered by many (Milton Friedman included) as the model of a perfect capitalist country (Although it's not a country anymore but a special region within China).
The point i'm making is this, housing doesn't always work when approached from a purely market stance. It's one of a handful of issues in modern economies that don't always work well in markets. I think the key is geography. Vancouver, like Hong Kong, is geographically restricted. The mountains, fraser river, english bay and the strait of georgia, the boarder, and environmentally sensitive land all prevent the outward expansion of the city. This is similar to Asian and European cities, but isn't the norm in most North American cities. Restircted outward growth combines with population growth (and a north american tendency to support single family housing over denser forms of living) to jack up the price of land. Land isn't made via the market it's given a value. Unless you start create artificial islands in the georgia strait you can't increase the supply of land. Eventually you have to densify.
Anyways, enough from me, just some thoughts.

Echman

Right on.
There is an idea that the Right will not accept public housing. From a social and economic perspective publicly funded housing will have payback if you consider the labour housed, stability of low income earners, increased spending potential in areas, improved efficiency for services per dwelling etc.
Social housing I saw in East Germany was poorly planned, constructed and ugly but it doesn't have to be. Nor does it have to be the classic '50s suburb.
Even so-called capitalists like me are for anything that improves efficiency, social structure, community stability and health. It makes my life better, and a better environment in which to be a capitalist and a Dad. Time to dump the old media driven stereotypes so people like me can make money in a healthy community and environment. The Big Bridge will not help, density and trains will help and then Vancouver's economy will iimprove.
Density makes sense for all political stripes. Most important the environment prefers it.