Cute article. I can

Cute article.

I can remember doing short sessions of yoga in Phys Ed as early as grade 3 (circa 1979), as both warm-up and warm-down exercises before and after more high-impact team sports. This is nothing new, nor should it threaten established the established phys ed curriculum.

Phys Ed for kids has some very practical uses aside from simple physical fitness. It provides high-impact release of kids' energy (preparing them to settle down and concentrate at their desks), it teaches teamwork, co-operation and socialization, it teaches how to channel aggressive and competitive instincts constructively, leadership skills, anger management, etc....These additional benefits would not be provided by yoga alone. So I see yoga as a good supplement that has a lot to offer to existing phys ed programs , as long as we bear in mind that there are a lot of other needs (especially for boys) that would simply not be met by yoga alone.

Just a final thought, to

Just a final thought, to reinforce my point about keeping our eye on the ball when it comes to experimenting with the curriculum:

In an era when the Public Education System's most common solution for restless boys is to put them on drugs, it's more important than ever to keep in mind what Phys Ed is really for. I wouldn't want to see yet more boys getting involuntarily doped in the classroom because 8-year-old Jimmy couldn't sit still while doing his prana-bindu breathing exercises.

But if Yoga can be adapted to help with this situation, then by all means.

(Check out the stats regarding the prescription of Ritalin and similar drugs to schoolboys. We're compensating for a weak & unengaging curriculum, over-burdened teaching staff, and highly feminized learning environement by drugging the kinetic energy right out of our boys).

Yoga may be the autobahn

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/01/09/bc-yoga.html?ref=rss
but some places in BC prefer ruts in the road......

Sounds like the officials at

Sounds like the officials at the Quesnel school board haven't handled their corporate communications very well, with regard to this issue.

A proper information strategy explaining this change to the curriculum should have been undertaken. The officials are answerable to the constituency whose children they purport to teach...irrespective of what we cosmopolitan sophisticates might think of that constituency's particular worldview. It should have occurred to someone that yoga is non-traditional and therefore may require a bit of explication at the very least.

Yoga as religious practice

Swami Vishnudevananda, the Hindu missionary who introduced yoga to the western world (in 1957, with the first training institute opened in Montreal 1959)clearly stated in his seminal text, the Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga (1960) that the Hatha yoga practiced as "exercise" was designed for religious purposes, and that the practice of it was to train the body in order to promote spiritual union with god (Brahman or Shiva).
Most religions have specific postures or physical practices with religious significance (Catholic genuflection, sign of the cross, Falun Gong poses, etc.). To suggest that yoga has no religious meaning might be viewed as insulting to those in the Hindu faith who spent thousands of years perfecting these forms.
Now Mrs. Cummings (who I know personally) may have gone over the top with the Satan comment, but since the School Act forbids instruction in any religion, her contention that yoga is religious instruction merits consideration.

Evangelical legend Billy

Evangelical legend Billy Graham gave his verdict on Transcendental Meditation (derived from Hindu yoga meditations)about 30 years ago, after TM had gained popularity in North America.
He said "Transcendental Meditation opens up spaces in you where the Devil can get in".
I thought that was hilarious.

It appears some Christian fundamentalists
are still purveying the same intolerant alarmist crap.

There's a non-amusing aspect to this. A group of religious fundamentalists
denounces a another group's religious practice as of the Devil, and therefore evil. And , to extrapolate, isn't evil to be resisted, suppressed and punished?

Isn't this getting close to hate speech?

Shannon Rupp , Yogic "Moon Head"??

Wasn't it Shannon Rupp (author of this article)who wrote disparagingly, some months back, about scientist, Rupert Sheldrake and his experiments which appear to prove the existence of paranormal phenomena,and his theories explaining such phenomena?

As I recall, Ms. Rupp was firmly in the fundamentalist materialist camp which
"knows" paranormal phenomena (ESP,precognition, etc.) does not exist, 'cause it can't possibly exist.
And that Sheldrake is therefore delusional or fraudulent or both, 'cause his findings and theories just can't be.

Rupp seems to be going easy on Yoga by comparison to her treatment of Sheldrake.

So, how come she's not loudly denouncing the "delusional, fraudulent" belief system underpinning yoga?
The yogic postures she practices come out of a yogic philosophy and yogic model, which postulates far more "woo woo" than Sheldrake can be accused of spreading.

The traditional yogic model postulates that we have "subtle bodies", not just physical ones, and that our subtle bodies can astrally project. Subtle energies are believed to course through our subtle/physical bodies in pathways similar to the meridians of Taoism and acupuncture.
Yogic postures are believed to affect beneficially our subtle as well as our physical bodies.

Yogis, as they advance, are believed to often develop many paranormal powers: telpathy, telekinesis, precognition, astral projection, healing.
Certainly, there is a belief in a soul, Atman, and a spiritual ground of all being,
Brahman, that exists beyond all god images
of Hinduism.

Sheldrake's theories and scientific findings are very much compatible with the
Yogic model of reality and of human consciousness. You could say Sheldrake is proving by experiment some of the postulates of yoga.

So how come Yoga gets a friendly nod and some acceptance from Ms. Rupp the yogi, while Sheldrake (who once studied in an Ashram in India)is subjected to ridicule and denunciation as a purveyor of "woo woo"?

Reductio ad Absurdum

Hey dolphin, with arguments similar to yours, I'm sure I can make anything taught in school a form of "religious instruction."

How about a little tolerance, folks? There is a big difference between teaching, "This is a way of doing things that involves a system of beliefs that you may be interested in," and saying, "If *I* think it's religious, it's gotta go!"

All it takes is religious fervor to make any system of belief into a religion. Science, philosophy, mathematics -- they are all really just systems of belief.

What one needs is a hierarchy of beliefs. For example, one can value non-violence more than tolerance, and therefore be intolerant of violence, and still be tolerant of other things.

Or one can absolutely value one thing, like booze, your country's right to plunder others, or a slavish following of some leader or single idea or religion -- I think they're all equivalent. This leaves little room for the ideas of others in an increasingly crowded world.

sheldrake

Did he not write the book on information theory?

My daughter teaches yoga classes and is forever encouraging me to try it. When I cross my legs in that position it takes me a long time to work out the cramping. I am not worried about the devil I don't like pain.

I got a chuckle from the article and some of the posts. If it's any comfort to those who feel threatened by the devil being allowed in to their kid's bodies Buddhists and Hindus, who both practice yoga, don't trust each other either.

Sheldrake

Doggone: Probably a different Shelrake wrote on info. theory.
From Wikipedia:
Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, born 28th June 1942 is a British biologist and author. Perhaps drawing on the work of French philosopher Henri Bergson to develop the theory of morphic resonance, which makes use of the older notion of morphogenetic fields, he has researched and written on topics such as animal and plant development and behaviour, telepathy, perception and metaphysics. He has a popular public following, particularly because his books are aimed at the lay reader, but some of his ideas are controversial and are considered by some scientists to be pseudoscientific. Others consider Sheldrake a genius and cite that much of his work is supported by simple experiment. In fact, Sheldrake stands out as an avid experimentalist with his constant encouragement to his readers to "try this experiment at home". Most of Sheldrake's experiments are easy to replicate and show statistically significant results.

The Tyee ran a couple of negative articles about Sheldrake, but allowed Dr. Sheldrake to write his own Tyee rebuttal.
Some of the liveliest, most interesting and memorable Tyee debate and conversation ensued.

Quote:Now Mrs. Cummings (who

Yikes! Do you think testing for methane levels goes far enough!?

Tolerance

Bytesmith: I agree, a little tolerance would be fine. But the Supreme Court ruled definitively in the Surrey Book case that the "no religious instruction" section of the School Act, meant that no matter how well meaning the intent, decisions which involve a religious component aren't allowed. People can't honestly say yoga is not religious when it was specifically designed for a religous purpose--the exercise and flexibility are side benefits. We have pilates or calisthenics or aerobics or any number of non-religious exercises--why push yoga when (whether others like it or not) it smacks of imposing an unwanted religious value in the guise of exercise? In any event, the school is providing alternate stretches for the boy in question, and mom was happy with that (I spoke with her last night). When her son came home demonstrating his yoga poses and saying Namaste (I bow before the God in you)she asked that her son be excused and the school agreed. It's the press that has blown it all out of proportion.

Yoga advertising ... just like the msm

Didja notice the Yoga advertisements bordering Ms Rupp's "Me, a Yoga devil?" story?

Yeah, clubofrome, push the methane testing.

Yes, yes oh my God yes!

Does this mean that those adhereing to these Christian beliefs can only make love in the missionary position? I would have to assume that the Kama Sutra would be strictly forbidden...

Dolphin, in light of what

Dolphin, in light of what you say, the mother's objection is much more understandable. That nuance was not conveyed in the article. Clearly a line was crossed when they inserted the aspects of the spiritual tradition into what should be a strictly physical exercise.

It would be interesting to see what sort of consultative process went into the development of this innovation in the curriculum.

No more sandwiches for lunch

Geez, Catholics have bread and wine as centrepieces of their religious observances. Let's make sure any school lunch programs don't have any bread or grape juice involved.

I wonder if these good Christians put up a tree at Christmas (pagan ritual, the idea of the devil, no doubt) or have worship at the foot of a cross (phallic symbol, really; Jesus was likely crucified on a straight post.)

It's becoming pretty standard for so-called Christians to pick and choose the parts of their own religion. Just ignore Jesus' genuine concern for the poor, or his near-heretical embrace of outcasts like tax collectors. (How much would you bet that one of the 12 apostles was gay?) So it's not surprising that they would pick and choose at the religions of others.

And how, pray tell, would Jesus feel about his followers accusing adherents to other religions of being Satan-worshippers? Well, the story of the Good Samaritan isn't just about doing good works. It's a story about the goodness in all humanity. Samaritans were outsiders -- not Jews. The zealots of the day considered them the equivalent of Satan-worshippers: doomed because they weren't of the chosen race. Jesus' willingness to laud such an outsider is pretty telling, I think.

Zealots. Now there's a group to exorcise. (Ha! I made a funny!) Seems to me there were few groups who caught the wrath of Jesus more than zealots. Maybe there's something to be learned from that as well. Just don't be stretching at the time.

Contrary to Nightbloom's

Contrary to Nightbloom's belief that young boys have different "needs" pertaining to letting off steam than young girls, there is no proof that before puberty girls and boys are (left un-influenced by social and/or cultural conditioning) any different in their active lives, or for that matter, that there is much difference in physical strength between them. At puberty, girls fall off the map when it comes to sports and physical activity, and that is mostly a result of rising body image problems- if anything, they should be greatly encouraged from a young age to partake in sports of all kinds. It is attitudes like this that result in girls being left behind when it comes to developing physical strength throughout their lives.
I tutor a 16 year old girl who was so hyperactive at school (and yes, it was recommended she be prescribed Ritalin) that she ended up being taken out and is currently enrolled in home-schooling. At least now she spends the better part of her day roller-blading around the neighbourhood and, as soon as I have her convinced, hopefully practicing yoga!

Your point is contingent on

Your point is contingent on the caveat "before puberty". Puberty changes everything, doesn't it. To be inclusive, I would place the start of that benchmark no later than 9 years of age. Patterns of social behaviour and participation begin to crystallize even earlier.

And it's not the girls who are being left behind anymore, although all kids today face massive problems of adjustment for a wide variety of reasons that are very specific to their circumstances. We need to stop peddling the myth of girls "left behind". Let's look honestly at the systemic patterns. Who's getting prescribed the Ritalin? Who's academic performance and participation has been going down, down, down for years? Who's getting sucked into the correctional system at ever younger ages? Who is the education system failing?

The evidence is undeniable.

I would also challenge the

I would also challenge the assertion that there is no 'proof' that boys experience different needs. Has the issue really been given a due examination? Again, if there are not different needs, then why are so many boys sent to school drugged with a powerful personality-altering prescription phramaceutical? Why the pervasive behavioural problems and development difficulties? Why the lagging academic performance?

HTTP/1.1 500 Server Error

Shannon:
Maybe you should check the links to positions in the text: see above.

Bobb999
You're absolutely right, Shannon is a bit of a hypocrite. I think an awful lot of people consider Yoga to be very 'NEW AGE'. But then, that's not a big surprise is it?

How does she live with the internal conflict?

Demonization leads to genocide

Demonization of the other person's belief system can lead to, or at least be the rationalization for, genocide. FN peoples had their culture and beliefs destroyed by missionaries who slandered such as the work of Satan. The so-called cultural genocide which is what the missionaries practiced is actualy an aspect of genocide, plain and simple.

G West, Yes,

Ms. Rupp does appear somewhat hypocritical. As you say, some of the links she provides don't seem to fit with the fundamentalist materialist persona she adopted for her denunciation of Sheldrake.

And she says she's been a 20 year devotee of Iyengar yoga! She's hardly a dilettante then.
If she was in it for mere stretching and relaxation, one might think she'd adopt something like pilates instead of a spiritual philosophy which in fact pitches lots of what she denigrated before as "woo woo"!

From her link to the Vancouver Iyengar site:

"Thus, a dedicated yoga practice unites mind, body and emotions, and, at its highest level, the individual self with the Universal Self, or Soul."
Unite with the Universal Self??
Sounds pretty "woo-woo spiritual" non-materialist-model to me!

Another Iyengar site says:
"Iyengar Yoga is firmly based in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, an Indian sage who lived about 1700 years ago...[Rupp's guru]Mr. Iyengar has described his yoga as Patanjali Yoga, however it is commonly known as Iyengar Yoga, giving credit to his teaching and example."

Ch. 3 of Patanjali's "Yoga Sutra" describes a number of paranormal powers (siddhis)that the advanced yogi can attain to including :
telepathy, consciousness traveling away from the body (astral projection), direct perception without the need of any of the 5 senses (ESP), realization of the Universal Self, invisibility, and levitation.

Rupp's guru Iyengar said:
"When I practise, I am a philosopher. When I teach,I am a scientist. When I demonstrate, I am an artist"

So, how come Rupp isn't willing to accuse her guru of being a PSEUDOSCIENTIST, as she's so quick to do with Sheldrake (who IS a qualified scientist)? There's at least as much spiritual woo-woo underpinning Iyengar's Patanjali yoga, as there is in Sheldrake's work, yet she gives
Iyengar more than just a pass - he merits 20 years of devotion!

I suspect Mr. Iyengar would likely applaud Sheldrake's work, because it appears to prove and explain scientifically some of the claims of Patanjali/Iyengar yoga.
I doubt Mr. Iyengar would applaud his devotee, Ms. Rupp,though for her hatchet job on Sheldrake, whose work is so compatible with yogic teachings.

Ms. Rupp should be ashamed of herself for her double standard/hypocrisy.

Dolphon

For many, mathematics and science are held in great reverance. They are in many cases "worshipped", especially in contrast to the much demonized arts and literature......

Bob benign - nice catch

Do you play rugby?

You can run down the wing with me anytime. Very nice pickup. Good for a try I'd say.

G West ,

...actually, I've only ever played "rugby" here at the Tyee, teamed up with you. Thanks for a good game.
I wonder, is poor Shannon Rupp the metaphorical ball? Or is she captain of the opposing team? If so, her team seems to have abandoned the field and forfeited the game!

I recall last time she engaged in some of the discussion following her Sheldrake article.
Is the difference now, that this time she's been shamed into silence?? If so, I hope
she might possibly be rethinking her (now puzzlingly) rigid, uncompromising stance against Dr. Sheldrake. (I'll be waiting for
her mea culpa and apology to appear soon on the Tyee!)

Did we win?

Rupp, Worse Than a Hypocrite?

Another thought just occurred to me regarding Ms. Rupp's writings at the Tyee.
Is it possible she's not just an apparent hypocrite, but that she could possibly be demonstrating an even worse trait than hypocrisy?

Is it conceivable she may never in fact have believed the negative opinions she gave voice to about Sheldrake in her article, and claimed as her own opinions?

Is it possible she's simply a completely cynical hack, who chose to take an ultra-skeptical, materialist view against Sheldrake 'cause she believed that's the spin Tyee editors would approve of and publish?

Did she calculate that an anti-Sheldrake article would likely please Tyee approvers-of-articles, while a pro or neutral one might not get approved?
Did she, to get an article of hers published, submit one "written to order", so to speak, full of negative opinions which did not, in fact, reflect her own beliefs?

If so, this would make her the journalistic equivalent of a soldier of fortune, an amoral mercenary for hire, who will happily join any side, temporarily, and attack others, so long as it pays them or bestows personal aggrandizement.

I'm not accusing, just asking, because I find her Sheldrake vs. yoga positions unexplained and quite puzzling.

Entirely possible Bobb999

The hack label...a kind of modern practitioner in the New Grub Street style...but far more cynical than the characters Gissing portrayed is likely not far from the truth.

I looked back over her 'journalism' including a poison pen piece she did for the Globe and Mail. Note particularly the twin articles just before Xmas on Tyee for both 2005 and 2006.

She (or some other editor) did repair the text links to the various yoga position illustrations - one has to 'give' her that.

Where is the cling-free?

Well it can't be denied that Sheldrake is a woo-woo proponent for claiming scientific validity for his pseudo-scientific nuttery. His conclusions of supernatural powers aren't justified by his findings.

Yes it would be interesting to know whether Rupp literally buys into the mythological baggage that comes with yoga. As exercise and as a form of meditation the physical aspects of yoga appear to work exceptionally well. The superpowers, however, are, to be overly kind, a stretch.

But I also find bobby's level of obsession with the article interesting as well. As far as I can tell from the article, both Rupp and those teaching yoga at the school in question have stripped yoga of its mythological underpinnings, and are performing it strictly as exercise. And despite bobby's "obvious expertise" on pilates there is a considerable difference between it and yoga.

But then looking back bobby has a thing for making leaps, and not just of judgment but of faith. bobby I know you have an intense desire to believe in the existence of the supernatural, but it seems clear you harbor more than a little anger at having your desires demolished by science. Your mantra of "fundamentalist materialist" won't protect you and your fragile ego from the truth. Dreaming up lengthy fantasies about hypocritical conspiracy theories only reinforces your crank(y) image.

Now I know nightbloom and dolphin, in their traditional christian apologist paranoia point out the use of namaste by one of the boys being taught yoga as an indication of stealthy spiritual corruption. Anything I suppose to create a crack to wedge in their love for trumpeting christian persecution, while heretical new agey types influenced by satan get to corrupt the minds of youth by showing them how to stretch...

Oh and let's not forget in nightbloom's case, his fear that boys are being turned them into girly-men that need to be drugged to the gills when they resist the feminist gender fascism that is public school (does NB get out much?)

But really guys according to wikipedia (not to mention the travels of many I know who have gone to India) namaste is most commonly used as a greeting, with about as much religious connotation as me saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. Nor would I want to be accused of being christian for saying "Jesus Christ!" after seeing a car accident. Yes namaste certainly can have religious connotations. But, I'm sorry, anyone who promotes the notion that someone teaching school kids yoga postures uses namaste in any kind of religious context is, to yet again be overly kind, an imbecile.

Clearly new cultural trends make fundamentalists leery. No surprise there, as it tends to force them to think dangerously outside the ideological boxes they've cobbled together for those wee pea brains of theirs. But do you guys have to behave like such a bunch of clingy mewling brats?

Who's being left behind?

Nine?? I'd say that's a tad early. Anywhere from 9-14.
"why are so many boys sent to school drugged with a powerful personality-altering prescription phramaceutical? Why the pervasive behavioural problems and development difficulties? Why the lagging academic performance?" Nightbloom asks.
Well, to answer the first question, I'd guess because their parents are brainwashed into feeding their kids drugs rather than finding out what the problem really is. I didn't realize boys had more 'behavioural problems' than girls- only that they are more prone to act out whereas girls become introverted or cause damage in self-inflicting ways (thus the higher proportion of eating disorders and body image issues in girls). As for your last point, the 'lagging academic performance', I think that just may be a result of the fact that it's finally dawning on boys that they actually have to do the work in order to get the prize, something girls have always known (when they weren't being suppressed form learning entirely, or made to think they weren't as intelligent or as strong as their male peers). Finally, if a boy spends 3 hours after school watching tv and playing video games rather than participating in sports and outdoor activites, whose fault is that? It is up to the parents to guide them in activites that allow them to release their pent-up energy, be they female or male.

Here, Here JB

Harumph, Harumph....
Setting things straight again! There's a good man....

Oh, she went a lot further than that

Here's what Ms Rupp posted on a Stan Persky ariticle a while back. I think the Yoga stuff she's linked to here make enough 'New Age' claims of one kind or another to catch her in a bit of a cleft stick:

Stan Persky is such an astute critic - today's New Agers and the last century's fascist philosophers are dipping into the same well for a lot of their ideas. A number of researchers have drawn a parallel between today's “human potential movement,” and the underpinnings of Nazi notions of a new society, and Ayn Rand's creepy mix of capitalist ideas, metaphysics, and self-realization. Or as the New Agers say, “self-actualization.”

Like today's New Agers, members of early 20th century groups like the Thule Society incorporated occult ideas - astrology, face reading, telepathy - along with snippets of Eastern philosophies from Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. They wove this combo of magic and spirituality-lite into 19th century ideas from German Romanticism about the mysterious power of nature. It wasn't much of a leap for these nature mystics to embrace the idea of “Aryans” -- a mythical race that had supposedly evolved from some ancient Indo-European strain of people who became that tall, blonde, blue-eyed ideal for Nazis and supermodels.

They attempted to establish their own superiority via racism, but only because that was an acceptable yardstick in that era. Today's fascists, I notice, tend to assert their own superiority by calling themselves “enlightened.”

Sorry about the strange characters - seems to be the result of the recent formatting changes.

Who woo?

Ok GW but just as practicing meditation doesn't automatically mean you're religious or a believer in supernatural powers, I fail to see how practicing yoga automatically designates you as religious or a believer in supernatural powers. Both have roots in religious practices. But I would think that an expression of belief in a religion or supernatural powers is what is required.

Given Rupp's stances on the supernatural in the past, which you also highlight, bobby's attack looks a lot more like an ad hominem tu quoque that depends entirely on guilt by association. As far as I can tell Rupp has never made any claims about the supernatural powers of yoga.

As for all that new age stuff, a hell of a lot if not most of it is money grubbing creepery that plays on people's hedonistic desires and tells them lies to assuage their fears of death. In other words, it's boutique religion where you can shop and buy the bits you like.

JB - of course it doesn't.

However, I think honesty required at least a disclaimer. You see that all the time in modern journalism. Just by posting the information that she’s been practicing it for 20 years, along with the web material about its history and meaning, would lead a reader to think such a serious adherent was most probably buying into some of its ‘spiritual’ aspects. If not, she should have said so. And that created the raison behind Bobb999’s assertions.

I'm sure Bobb999 was getting his digs in for what Rupp said about Sheldrake and, in my view, good for him. She was outlandish in the way she demeaned the man (Sheldrake) and his ideas. The fact someone thinks a guy like Sheldrake is pitching woo woo notwithstanding, a responsible journalist would make a reasoned case with logic and empirical evidence. In fact, in Sheldrake’s reply he made that point himself.

If you've sussed out Shannon's piece from the Globe and Mail you'll see another example, it’s a different topic, but she's still out to get her man.

Even if we're skeptical about many New Age things, suggesting that such folks are closet Nazis is not the kind of thing I think leads to mature discussions; any more than the idea that criticizing Israeli policy is tantamount to being anti-Semitic.

A Juicy find , G West

...you found in the Rupp archives! Wow.
I agree she seems to have caught herself up in even more embarrassing contradictions.

So, this woman has belonged for 20 years to an organization that teaches traditional yoga, including its spiritual philosophy.

According to her link
to the Vancouver Iyengar Yoga Assoc., the ultimate goal of Iyengar teachings is to "unite with the Universal Self" i.e. Enlightenment.
-yet in the piece you post, she seems to be implying that one should beware those who might claim enlightenment, or belief in telepathy, occultism and mysticism, because they may be, or could turn into, dangerous racist fascists!
She even names "smatterings of Hinduism" to her "danger!" list!
-Further,the leader of her yoga assoc. teaches traditional Hindu yogic philosophy chock full of those same very dangerous ingredients.

Ms. Rupp is one irritating, exasperating, puzzling, walking contradiction, with a poison pen, as you say, G West)!
I saw her 2 "Merry Christmas" pieces you found. Same theme, same time, same place,
2 years in a row...and I'll wager "version 3" is on its way for Dec. '07.
I'm unfamiliar with that New Grub Street book you mention. From what you say, it sounds like it describes temptations writers can face in trying to scrounge a living, leading to ethical lapses.
I misunderstood your message to Shannon about bad links (by the time I tried them they were okay.I didn't know they hadn't worked). Your message got me
searching for contradictions instead!

I noticed at Amazon they offer the introductory chapter from Rupp's guru Iyengar's "Light on Yoga".
Quote: "In Indian thought everything is permeated by the Supreme Universal Spirit (Paramatma or God) of which the individual human spirit (Jivatma) is a part...[Yoga] teaches the means by which Jivatma can be united with or be in communion with Paramatma, and so secure liberation (moksa)." Mystical Enlightenment again, as the goal.

He appears to be very much a yoga traditionalist with Iyengar yoga being "firmly based...on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali" (as the UK Iyengar site says),
and on the Bhagavad Gita which Iyengar gives high praise to, and quotes liberally from, along with Patanjali, as authorities on yoga. He defers , uncritically, to these traditional authorities, from what I've seen thus far.

I see absolutely no evidence that Iyengar or his Associations have rewritten, or updated yoga, or have edited out or jettisoned any "mythological" elements, as Burns would like to think. Burns appears to be the one making "leaps".

Patanjali's book contains 4 chapters. Ch. 3 is known as "The Chapter of Powers", and describes the many abilities that can be acquired through yoga. Many of these powers are mystical, or paranormal or quasi paranormal such as extreme physical strength.
Mr. Iyengar says he teaches "Patanjali Yoga". I see no evidence that he in fact teaches Patanjali minus 25%, i.e. minus Ch.3!

From everything I've seen so far from Iyengar sites and Mr. Iyengar's writings,
the traditional yogic model of reality and human consciousness is accepted essentially as-is in Iyengar yoga teachings, with all the mystical/occult/paranormal "woo woo"
intact.

How does Rupp justify her sneering, even alarmist attacks against those who purvey mysticism and paranormal beliefs, while she
apparently remains a contented member in good standing in an organization that believes in and teaches those very same beliefs???

So far, she's apparently too chicken (or embarrassed or ashamed or guilty) to actually engage us here and explain herself (if that's at all possible). Coward!
Burns as her accidental stand-in/apologist hardly suffices.

G West

I just now saw your last post.
I agree with you that in the light of Rupp's previous published stands on all things "New Age", some kind of disclaimer or explanation seems due in her yoga article, where she (so puzzlingly)comes out as a long time yogi herself!

I appreciate your defence of me to Rupp's accidental, insufficient stand-in, Burns!

Exactly right. I'm not trying to take cheap shots at Ms. Rupp, or to ridicule her to amuse myself or even to "get even". Many people besides us were offended by that outlandish,unreasoned,sneering, unfair,arrogant hatchet job she wrote on Sheldrake.

Her unexpected announcement that she has been practising ,for 20 years, a traditionalist form of yoga, opened up a large can of worms for her, for all the reasons we've noted. Tyee readers and editors(and Sheldrake)deserve some kind of explanation for her apparent hypocrisy, mendacity, multiple personality disorder, or whatever the heck it IS exactly that can possibly explain her inherent contradictions!

More of the same

GW, I agree Rupp could have been more explicit, but I think the following quotes are telling:

and

That doesn't sound like a mystical approach to yoga by any means. In fact it sounds overly strenuous to me. Yoga injuries are becoming a lot more common, in large part due to the newer "power" yoga styles. Hell, I know someone who got heatstroke doing one of those hot yoga classes. Leave it to western practitioners to turn a gentle exercise into a test of endurance and pain management. Then again these days there are more flavors of yoga then there are of Baskin-Robbins.

As for you bobby the guilt by association shtick was tired the first time you tried it. Why beat the same dead horse? Why play the same old tune? I would have though a proponent of woo-woo would have a better imagination.

You got it - exactly.

You'd probably like rugby; it's an exercise in barely ordered violence in which those who find a way to work together can succeed.

Gissing's dates are 1857 - 1903. New Grub Street is about the struggle to make a living through the 'manufacture of printed stuff' while constantly falling short of the 'literary' ideals to which the hero 'wants' to dedicate himself.

There's a little passage about him in H.G. Wells' Experiment in Autobiography that describes in grisly detail Gissing's death from pneumonia. Here's the last paragraph of that bit:

JB - methinks the lady protests too much

Why include the link to the Spiritual stuff at all then - if she dismisses it, which no doubt she would, the fact that the actual 'practice' contains something more than the torture she describes seems peculiarly persuasive to me. Western folks don't normally torture themselves for 20 straight years.

I like to run about 8 - 10 k at least 5 times a week...if all I 'got' out of running were the pain and misery that goes along with it - I'd stop. And I'm no promoter of woo woo of any kind.

The point is that Ms Rupp has no sense of empathy and her writing, and attitude, show it. She's a mean-spirited piece of work, and, as I said above, I see little problem with Bobb999 laying on a little stick.

Ah...well then attack the mean...

If it's the lack of empathy that is Rupp's problem then hammer her for that. Pretending she believes something she likely doesn't is a waste of time as an argument. But I guess as a pure and simple intentional misunderstanding as a vehicle for revenge it might have some uses.

On the other hand the notion of the unity of all things is supported by science, and it's something I certainly believe, as I've stated in other threads. Who we are and what we do have infinitely greater consequences than the limited effects we perceive on ourselves and our immediate surroundings (which is why I believe parasites like cappy and the corporate elite are such a problem for humanity). But I'd just laugh at someone who insisted that sense of interconnection I have means I believe in souls, or the paranormal, or superpowers. I don't see the point of letting my desires or fears bully me into clinging to fantasies. Down that path there is only suffering.

The flip side of all this, which I'm surprised you guys didn't glom on to yet, is that if Rupp is into yoga for the pain... heh well that would go further, based on what she did write, to explaining the traits you say she has.

jb

Entirely possible.

As I said, she's a nasty piece of work. None of what I posted was really indicative of the depths to which she stooped on another thread. You many not have noticed and I'd prefer to let it lie.

The purpose is informational - not revenge.

Truth is, JB

I couldn't care less if Shannon Rupp ever reads the comments. I'm only interested relative to what happens the next time she jumps down some poor sucker's throat cause she's having a bad day and has to churn out 750 words of hack work.

Others will notice.

There are enough journalists in the main stream media doing that kind of compromised performance now. Try writing a reasoned response to a Paul Wells column and see what happens.

If David Beers is going to give readers a chance to make their feelings known, I'm gonna use it - just as you do.

JB's misrepresentation

You're developing a bad habit of misrepresenting those whom you disagree with, JB.

I stated that I had nothing against a little yoga in the classroom, and that the idea was nothing new, as my own public school experience demonstrates.

I added, however, that we need to bear in mind what Phys Ed is for before tampering too zealously with the curriculum. I would extend this conservative rule to all aspects of the curriculum.

The concern that boys are getting short-changed by 'innovations' in the curriculum over the past twenty years has been widely expressed by professionals. Changes to Phys Ed are fair game for critical examination. There's some complex issues here. At no point did I suggest boys were being turned into 'girly-men'. That's an idiotic statement on your part. I simply question the effectiveness of any curriculum that requires up to one third of the male students to be chronically drugged.

It's a fair point to make. Didn't mean to rattle your cage again.

G West

Writing reduced to "manufacture of printed stuff" (or 21st century equivalent)!
In too many cases, that's what it likely comes down to, including, perhaps, in the case of our article's author.

Your point is well made about the disturbing lack of empathy in Rupp's output. It may help "explain" her mean spiritedness.

Maybe she's come to believe there's even commercial advantage to her mean approach in writing about people...Her schtick that draws attention, and makes her "stand out".
She may have noticed it works for Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh, so why not Shannon Rupp? Unfortunately, meanness sells.

characterizations

nb wrote:

It's not the curriculum, the drugging is a result of a mix of factors, the most important of which is a pharmaceutical industry looking for and inventing markets. I suspect ADHD has far more to do with the way children spend their free time, and the media they consume, not to mention their diet (in fact it probably goes right back to the way their metabolic patterns developed as a result of their prenatal diet and environment). But ADHD primarily is an invention of mental health authorities, and it has been endlessly promoted by the makers of Ritalin.

As for me mischaracterizing you, well what I do is summarize your points of view in terms that point out the nonsensical elements, sometimes harshly. Pet theories about the world are fine. But if you're going to broadcast them publicly, don't be surprised if people take issue with them. You have a very bad habit of declaring your opinion as fact, in many (if not most) cases without providing anything to back those declarations up.

Burns is grasping at straws

Burns is grasping at straws in a comical
attempt to declare Iyengar yoga "non-mystical", based on the dubious "authority" of a few Rupp quotes! Yet, the end goal of Iyengar yoga is , according to Mr. Iyengar himself and the Vanc. Iyengar Assoc. - not "spinal alignment" - but mystical union with the Divine!

Rupp may very well be more interested in the physical exercises than in the meditation.
But she appears to be misrepresenting the teachings of her guru and her organization, if, by her quote about meditation and mantra, she's implying meditation is not part of those teachings!
From the Vanc. Iyengar Assoc. site: "Physical firmness, emotional stability,and intellectual clarity are the keys to meditation"(-Mr. Iyengar).

If Ms. Rupp has not encountered mantra, well,there are many other yogic meditation techniques, she no doubt has. Various forms of concentration, for instance. Even the breathing (pranayama)Rupp mentions as practicing, is viewed as a means to alter consciousness, and has mystical implications:
Pranayama means "control of prana". Prana
is not air. Prana is a subtle energy that fundamentalist materialists do not recognize as existing.

(The last I looked, the "skeptics" were still denouncing acupuncture too- studied extensively and used routinely in China for local anesthesia, etc.- as a fraud 'cause it too postulates subtle energies. Such "skeptics" are willfully blind and ignorant. They place their hands firmly over their eyes while chanting their own mantra "I haven't seen one shred of evidence!...",ad nauseum.

Obviously, meditation IS taught in Iyengar yoga,with the real goal being to bring one, more and more, into accord with the Divine, according to the Iyengar site, and Iyengar's writings. Rupp's brief comments offer but a few fragments only, and possibly misrepresentations, of the actual teachings of her organization.

For Burns to grasp at Rupp's straws as
definitive statements on the nature of Iyengar yoga is a joke. It would be like
relying on a filing clerk in a large co. to explain company objectives and strategies,
while completely ignoring all statements by the CEO, Board and managers on the same subjects! Nonsensical.

It's clear from their sites the Iyengar Association(s) defer to their guru Mr. Iyengar, who in turn defers to the traditional authorities on yoga who wrote the classics: most notably Patanjali and the Gita. From perusing some of Mr. Iyengar's writings - which Burns has not read - it's quite clear Iyengar's a traditionalist, espousing the traditional yogic model, with all the accompanying mysticism intact. Whether it's intact in Rupp's own personal belief system is a different matter entirely.

Iyengar has is not editing out or watering down yoga teachings to make yoga acceptable to the fundamentalist materialists of the world.
Burns seems keen on pretending otherwise, wanting to imagine Ms. Rupp, instead, as belonging to an organization that does not pitch mysticism and a non-materialist model, despite all evidence to the contrary. Dream on, "Mr. Burnished Rationality"!

It may be unpalatable to contemplate for some, but Rupp has admitted to being a long time member in an organization whose philosophical basis and reality model are
essentially spiritual, mystical and non -materialist. A model incompatible with the materialist view of the "skeptics".

Whether or not Ms. Rupp disbelieves the mystical aspects, and is in it strictly for the perceived health benefits, is a secondary question.

Whatever her personal beliefs are, she is actively supporting Iyengar yoga (monetarily, if she pays dues for classes, money for books, etc.), and she is advertising/promoting it (by writing the article and providing site links)...An organization which is every bit as woo-woo-spiritual model based as Sheldrake's work is.

But Sheldrake gets brutally trashed by Ms. Rupp, while Iyengar yoga gets supported and promoted! Yet the core beliefs espoused in Iyengar yoga are in fact very much "Sheldrakeian", including those same mystical and paranormal beliefs that Rupp elsewhere has derided as being false and dangerous!

Some of us find her breathtaking hypocrisy
to be puzzling, exasperating, appalling.
-And, as yet, unexplained.

Nightbloom: Yes, Burns is not above posting misrepresentations.

G West: It's too bad a disc problem in my neck prevents me from playing such a worthy sport as rugby. Hiking, paddling and a bit of working out is my limit!

Fantasize away

bobby, to be honest, I just find it kind of sad that you spend as much time as you do fantasizing about Rupp's hypothetical beliefs.

Rupp's Beliefs ?

I thought my prior post should have made it clear enough that what Rupp does or does not believe is, in my opinion, almost beside the point. It's surely not the main issue.

I am more interested in establishing what Iyengar and his Associations' beliefs are, not what Rupp's may be. (I thought this would have been clear from my post too).

Why?
(See my last 3 paragraphs on the topic from
last time}.

...I maintain Shannon Rupp should deem to
show herself and do a little 'splainin' for the benefit of Tyee readers, editors, Sheldrake ,(and perhaps herself).

I wouldn't pass off ADHD and

I wouldn't pass off ADHD and Ritalin as simply a profit-driven ploy by pharmaceuticals (although that's certainly a big part of it). The school system is complicitous. As I understand it, they identity kids for observation using their own specialists, and then forward them on for diagnosis. Teachers are frustrated, overworked and spread thin, and parents are exhausted, short on time and out of answers. It's a perfect storm. Drugging the kids seems to solve the problem for everyone. We don't know what kind of legacy awaits us down the road as a result of this widespread practice. I think there are many kids whose prospects are legitimately improved by resort to medication, but everything I've heard from teachers (both friends and family) is that it's massively over-prescribed and is often used to compensate for all sorts of other root causes.

I think you're right about activities out of school having an impact on development. It's not hard to imagine how the dopamine-driven cult of video gaming, for example, might have a hand in this. The school system needs to do whatever it can to counter these influences and put forward alternatives. If yoga has a role to play in this, then by all means. But the school board needs to bring people onside and sort out their communications and rationale, and not jeopardize the experiment by commiting stupid errors which (understandably) could be interpreted exercising a double-standard with regard to the banishment of religion from the public school classroom.

What the hell's going on here?

I bet Rupp was doing yoga and getting woo woo lessons while she was crapping on Sheldrake's reputation.

If she's, in fact, this soft on mysticism, somebody must have put her up to trying to destroy Sheldrake, basically writing about him as though he's some kind of charlatan, when in fact, he's an extremely honourable and sincere researcher and philosopher.

Too weird! Actually, I've never read anything in the Tyee remotely like Rupp's trashing of Sheldrake, and now with her yoga involvement, well, I'd certainly never believe in anything she writes again.

I thought she was at least just sincerely mistaken about Sheldrake. Now it appears she has no particular thoughts about 'woo woo' one way or another.

And of course, James Burns is sad again, Bobb999, as he customarily is when people don't see things his way.

Burns: "bobby I just find it kind of sad that you spend as much time fantasizing about Rupp's hypothetical beliefs..."

Burns, as I recall, was right there cheering Rupp on as she fantasized about Sheldrake's hypothetical beliefs.

These two deserve each other.

Hey Truman! Glad to see you

Hey Truman!
Glad to see you found this thread! I was hoping you, and others who voiced opinions sympathetic to Sheldrake on prior threads, might find their way here.
I think all those folks should be made aware of Rupp's inexplicable double standard.

Thanks go to G West, for his "enlightening", revealing research into Rupp's oeuvre, and for his own insightful comments. That Globe piece suggesting mysticism and paranormal beliefs lead to racist fascism, I found jaw dropping - after reading of her 20 year devotion to yoga!

As you say, it will be difficult now to accept anything she writes as representing sincere opinion or honest research.

Yes, one can't help but wonder if her Sheldrake piece was a put up job, written to order, suggesting she's the most cynical type of hack.

A good come back too, on Burns and his cheerleading of Rupp's fantasizing about Sheldrake.
On this thread he's been happily fantasizing a fiction that Iyengar yoga is yoga-minus-mysticism, when all declarations
by its leader and spokespeople prove otherwise...And Burns claims to be a serious exponent of rationality??

I'd like to think Mr. Beers and Rupp's other Tyee colleagues might also find Rupp's inconsistencies troubling, once these are pointed out. Of course, they may be oblivious to this thread.
And I suspect Mr. Beers leans toward the skeptic/materialist camp, which may make Rupp's inconsistencies appear less appalling to him than to us,
who see clearly an injustice and unacceptable hypocrisy.

errata

Couple quick points:
The Globe article is this one:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060506.WIKI06/TPStory/

It's allegedly about Wikipedia but soon turns into a slash job directed at Kevin Potvin who had, at the time, been having a fairly public disagreement with David Beers over other matters. Draw your own conclusions.

Rupp's conflation of New Age folks with fascists came from a comment she left here at Tyee on an article written by Stan Persky, you can find it here:
http://thetyee.ca/Books/2006/08/08/TheMasterPlan/

And of course, you're all familiar with her hatchet job on Sheldrake.

Just being careful about accuracy; hope you don't mine Bobb999.

Even the 'devil' deserves his/her due.

errata of my own

'mine' above should be 'mind'.

G West

Thanks for clarifying and giving the links.
It's too bad the Globe article is behind a subscriber firewall (or purchasable for $4.95)...Rather than spend $4.95 on a Shannon Rupp article, I choose to go without, content to accept your assessment of the contents. You've found a recurring pattern (of mean spiritedness) in her output, which I doubt her yoga teachers would endorse.

I'd not seen that Persky article before.
I was amused just now to notice someone (Alcibades)in the post just prior to Rupp's there, mentioned "...one of Bobbb999's destructive 23s..." (synchronicities involving #23 which I'd posted a fair amount about on that Sheldrake thread, as you know).

I mention this, 'cause your typo "mine" you mention,happens to have a small synchronicity attached to it: I attended a mineing conference today. The twice yearly Goldshow at Canada Place, primarily about investing in mining stocks...Just a little amusement at day's end!

`

This may get you behind the firewall

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:fFRCwtsKekgJ:www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060506.WIKI06/TPStory/+shannon+rupp+globe+and+mail&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1

Drugged out students

As a person who works in the education field and deals with a population that is 3-4 times more likely to be declared "Behaviour problems", I am disgusted at the use of drugs in schools.

The whole problem is that everyone in the system is grossly overworked, and rather than deal with the child on their level, it is off to the docs office for some drugs.

There have been numerous times in my 9.5 years on this job, where I have merely suggested giving the child a snack with a low glycemic index, at recess or just before recess. While I am no pediatrician, I do know that a large number of my culture are hypo-glycemic (When I get grouchy, my gf laughs at me and hands me a granola bar). This suggestion to parents is not iron clad, nor would I say it works every time, or is it a proven scientific fact.

However, when it does work that's one less kid on drugs in our schools.

I find it utterly reprehensible that we have no longterm studies on these drugs or their effects, but we'll bitch and complain over one little namaste.

Get a grip Audrey Cummings!

Satan is for children

Anyone who actually believes in "the devil" ought to read "Satan - A Biography" by Henry Ansgar Kelly.

Belief in a god or devil figure is keeping themselves in a infantile, childlike state.

www.godisimaginary.com

G West

Something's odd...earlier today I tried your new link and it worked, but I didn't have time to read then, so I went back to it just now, and I was unable to get to the full article this time!
But, somehow I managed to locate it via a new Google search anyway.

I wasn't even aware of "Google cache" before you pointed me toward it today.(I'd heard of web caching but did not know how to access historic pages before).
What a great resource! I imagine one can find lots of cached articles for free which otherwise would be available only behind subscriber walls. Besides the Globe, I'm thinking of the NY Times, and the Washington Post, and others, which I believe charge for archived articles.
Thanks.

It was interesting to read.And I found the last portion of the article ironic:
[Rupp]:"...Which suggests that, new media or old, the same guideline applies: Always consider the source."
(-With you Ms. Rupp, we shall in future
do that!)

Yes, she appears to have set out to do an
unsympathetic piece on Mr. Potvin.
Written-to-order, maybe?

Do you know, I've read a few Potvin pieces
which were smears against mystically inclined people, particularly one or two he wrote about the Dalai Lama, which I considered quite unfair, ridiculing him and even planting some alarmist tripe about him - not unlike what Rupp's been up to!
(What goes around...-?)

Yeh, Bobb999

I noticed that too.

Google cache is a great resource. I take advantage all the time - especially against the G&M whose fees are extraordinarily steep.

At least the NYTimes is only what $40(US) per annum and it it gives you access to their whole archive (max 100 items per month).

I couldn't manage without TimesSelect but I'd never pay for the G&M or any of the CanWest online services.

Funny thing is that the London Times used to be behind subscription but they moved back into the open a couple years ago.

Beers and Potvin were in the middle of a tiff at the time - I think you can find the evidence in the Republic of East Van's archives.

Mencken puts it about right:

But the whole thing, after all, may be put very simply. I believe it is better to tell the truth than to lie. I believe that it is better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe that it is better to know than to be ignorant.

It's been fun.

G West

I wasn't happy to see the NYT introduce Times Select, after I'd gotten to like reading their columnists. But fortunately Times columnists (at least the progressive leaning ones)are regularly bootlegged and posted on various blogs. Easy to locate via searches at technorati.com.

Of course, not everything in "Select" gets bootlegged, so I can see why you like to subscribe. Krugman mentioned that his (and others') readership fell significantly when
Select appeared, which is too bad (I don't think NYT is divulging their actual subscriber stats numbers).
With luck, the NYT may end up following
the London Times' example.

My own general view is there are so many online papers, and news/opinion sites, often with quality reporting and opinions, that one could easily spend all day reading on those sites as it is, without ever subscribing to anything!

I didn't know about the tiff between Potvin and Beers. I'll check out those Republic archives.

I enjoyed the Mencken quote. Thanks.
-If only more journalists might take it to heart!