I went to a strip club once, twenty-five years ago. I was out hanging around with a friend of mine while he was looking for a cool shirt, we didn't find anything so we decided to stop off and have a bite to eat. We ended up in this little bar and greasebomb plae near the university and ordered burgers and a beer. While we were sitting and waiting for them we noticed a few more guys coming in and settling themselves at the tables nearby. And then, just when our fiood arrived, this woman climbed up on the little stage in the corner and took off her clothing. There didn't seem to be any particular purpose to it, I wasn't especialy erotically interested, and I ate my food and drank my beer and headed off with no fuss, shortly after she finished her set.

I findwomen I know erotic, women I don't know not especially, and I often hang around naked with friends, so what's the big deal? In a sex-positive, healthy culture (if there ever were such a thing) strip clubs would close down, and erotic dance would be broadcast on TV after dinner. Something to work toward.

Best wishes.

Amusing read. I'm so removed from this phenomena of women going to "men's" strip clubs", I didn't even know it was going on. But then, I guess, what should one expect from an "old man", long married. (Though even, maybe especially, we have our fantasies too.)

But even when I was young, which wasn't that long ago :-), loving the female body no less now than I did then actually, I then as now had a rather serious dislike of public strip clubs. (Which is not a claim to being less of a perv or kinkster to other men or "more moral".) They simply made/make me feel uncomfortable-, for the woman humping the pole up there, and for myself, for I really did feel I was being exploited. (And I seriously hate being exploited by anyone.)

And of course, to me, there is as was a certain callous pointlessness to such overt sexual display, when it leads nowhere that I could tell, certainly not to consumation-, which to me is the only relevant point of such clothes off, in your face display. And it is certainly far, far way and beyond the classic flirting all men and women engage in, and which I do enjoy, even now.

Now masturbation is, of course, also an aspect of human, male and female, sexuality. And my sense of the stripper thing, everytime I did follow the "run with the bulls" into some more or less sleazy watering hole strip joint was that this plugged into that aspect of human sexuality more than anything else. (It's there on the same level with the widespread availability of porn, with the same masturbatory stimulation/ exploitation objective to it. Which sometimes makes me suspect that there really is more male and female masturbation going on, than any real sex between the sexes per se. (Certainly it would be one explanation to the low birth rate.) Hopefully, I'm wrong. But there is something really strange going on between men and women right now-, is my sense of it, though the relationship has nearly always been more or less strained, or had a tension to it. And "feminism", at least in some of its forms and outcomes, contrary to the early expectations of those I was associated with, has not reduced that, but if anything the tension is even more strained, in my sense of it. Am I wrong? )

Anyway, I accept that consenting adults should be free to do what they do, and I certainly wouldn't want to over moralize about the male or female stripper. It's enough, for me, that the "public" way of it makes me uncomfortable, which does as it has, lead me to avoid it. The naked woman I want to see is, and I love a naked woman, within reach and going to receive my manhood. Cold shower sex is not where its at with me. Never was. :-)

Anyway, a fun and interesting read.

I'm sure alot of us have actually seen the article by Aubry Levy which was published in MacLeans a few months ago. I am a man and I think it was absolute genious.

Levy describes a common line from the girls doing this as "I want to be like a man". It isn't much of a leap of faith to realize that a big part of this behaviour is rejecting the femininity. Ironic in that the whole name of the game is looking at naked chicks. But common - femininty is a whole lot more than tits and ass.

There is that neediness, that wanting love, that romantisization. Granted these are not traits exclusive to women, but there is a feminine edge to the way women go about it. And these are traits that as a man I find really attractive (and wake up guys, this is one of her most feminine traits that is far less likely to fade as fast as the rest with age). And yet the current trend is to demonize these feminine traits, because they denote weakness or something. Make women into men, right down to the competing for beautiful women. The guys that chear this on...... get a grip, you're selling yourselves so short.

Seriously we're really heading towards this porn-drenched lesbian-o-phile version of the Brave New World. Where not only people but their relationships are comoditized, and love is for sex rather than vice verse.

My girlfriend just called me. It's late and i i usually don't get a call from her at this hour. She called simply because she wanted to hear my voice. She wanted to talk to me. Now this is sexy.

What a great feeling. Truly. Makes me feel terrific. I hadn't realized it, but i was in need of a little intimate conversation as well and i'm so glad i did get to talk to her tonight.

Yes, I've been to a number of strip clubs. Mainly while i was in my twenties. The women are always beautiful. Undoubtedly. Pysically appealing to be sure. But for whatever reason, i never, ever seemed to find them all that 'sexy'. I could never get off on that. I don't know-i went along with the guys in whatever moment we happened to be in but it always seemed a little cheap. And usually it left me feeling somewhat disgusted with myself. Maybe i have an issue here. I mean, why don't i just lighten up right? It's only harmless fun.

And the truth is, I have no problem with women taking off their clothes. In fact, i'd be the first in line to jump into a human daquiri with a pair of university nymphettes going/gone wild, but, when it comes right down to it, I have to admit, I find the intimacy of sincere conversation and subtle feminine affection far more alluring than sitting in a room full of men guzzling cheap draft and gawking at a woman with too much synthetic lubrication swathed over herself.

Years ago, a married friend of mine who occasionally went to strip clubs told me he had recently confessed it to his wife, hoping to make her understand the purely physical attraction of male voyeurism. Unhappily, she was deeply upset and insisted that he never go to such places again.

"So, what did you reply?" I asked.

"I'll never do it again," he said.

"Never do what again?" I asked.

"Never tell her again!"

Coyote reflects,

and continues

I think, as the writer suggests as one aspect, at any rate, that there is a power dynamic involved. Obviously, said dynamic relates, is in fact inseperable from, sexuality itself, but is not sexuality itself. Coyote cannot see the callous pointlessness when it doesn't end up with the real thing. I suggest that many men go to a strip club, not with any intention of it leading to the real thing; you could probably count on one finger how many men pop a wood while watching a peeler; certainly there may be something in the male viewer's mind that fantasizes about getting with the viewee but that is more incidental than the point, I think. It has to do with power. And it is a fall out of feminism and secularism more than it is of any innate sexual desire of men to see strange women dance naked in a semi-public space. I am not disparaging feminism nor the rise of secularism. I have welcomed both, but I am not ignorant enough to suggest that only "good" comes from both. I suggest it's a political/gender thing that makes the average modern man attend strip bars. Speaking for myself, and I don't think I'm unique, I from time to time go to a strip club just to feel like participating in a ritual whereby the woman dances for me and I am a man. As the writer says, it's much about the cash, an economic deal. But there's no economy without the demand. So at root, in our time, I submit most men go because it's a place where roles are clear still. "Woman naked, man watch". Related to sex but not really about sex. I figure I haven't made my point very clearly but maybe some out there catch my drift.

Interesting comments by all...and some very honest writing, Carla.

My first reaction to the strip clubs, pole dancing etc is how highly choreographed and even predictable they are...

Though I do get your point, jtothemfk, about it being an uncomplicated refuge for men (and apparently now even for women) from so many of "the rules" now surrounding the man-woman interplay.

The movie, Dr. Zhivago, has a scene in it, which says what I would like to say much better than I ever could.

Though known more as a historical romance... it really is one of the sexiest movies around, I think, at least, because it gets that almost silent quality, that mystery, present in the deep resonant quality of real sex.

It is a wonderful scene, Lara is simply ironing and she is lit by director David Lean in this wonderful light, while Yuri stands in the darkness watching her, trying to say good-bye by declaring the love both of them are denying. She is trying her best to appear non-chalant and concentrate on her ironing...but every time her old heavy iron hits the ironing board, the sound of it is like the desperate thud and pull of their hearts towards each other.

Nothing is "outside" in this scene between the two of them, nothing staged...it is all "inside."

They don't need to take their clothes off..though you know they eventually will. It is just the sexiest, lovely scene because of the sense of deep intimacy it suggests.

Nothing against strip bars, whatever makes you happy, only I think, they are more of a performance act...keeping men and women at a safe distance from the depth of their real feelings.

jtothemfk, you make good points and don't worry about not being clear. It's a tough subject to even talk about for most of us.

I seldom go to peeler bars. The last time was in San Fransisco about eight years ago when my wife and I joined another couple for a weekend there.

The hubby wanted a visit so I tagged along.

Let's face it strip clubs, peeler bars, whatever you call them, are pretty tame considering what is available elsewhere today and, in my estimation, are about as risque as the latest Victoria's Secrets catalogue available to anyone who applies.

My wife, who is now my ex, liked to look and that excited me as much as the pics, er.. I mean the latest swim suit lines.

Hey Canada Post delivers so it ain't official porn.

In fact, I'd suggest strip bars as pretty much sex neutral places where you can look, laugh and have a good time, just as thousands of people do each night before heading off to dreamland.

It's kind of liberating that you might find a table full of gals sitting right beside, I think.

Too tame for you? Then stay home and google up something real hot.

Lynn, love stories are like that for women. Men, unfortunately have trouble reading between the lines unless the subject is stripped right down to the bare essentials.

Butnot to worry, according to Darwin we'll eventually get beyond it. There's no rush, is there?

ahh, that's one comment I wish I hadn't written...I sound like such a romantic dork....

.

No rush at all, allan....the bare essentials, in any form they take, are always what life is really about. :-)

So... what I see as tender longing on the part of Yuri is really just Yuri imagining what Lara would look like naked? I'm quite okay with that as well...in a parallel universe kind of way. :-)

Lynn, without getting too far out there, I guess it supports the Women are from Venus Men are ....

Though known more as a historical romance... it really is one of the sexiest movies around, I think, at least, because it gets that almost silent quality, that mystery, present in the deep resonant quality of real sex.]

That is my ALL time favorite movie....

Now that says it, I think. Better than I did.

And enjoyed Allan's comments as well.

Lookin' for love in all the wrong places, as the cowboy singer said.

Women go to strip clubs to raise their sexual status. Its the same reason to women who may not be particularily bi-sexual will make out on the dance floor. They know it is guaranteed to get the attention of all the males. They can then select which of the drooling males they wish to bed based on their appearance (ie genes) and or wealth (ability to provide).

It's well and good to say that women going to strip clubs is the new "trend". But this story never actually proves that. There are no facts or figures to back this up, only the writer's presumption based on going to one strip club.

In defence of the author the preponderence of women now in the audience at strip clubs and even lap dancing establishments is well established as a fairly recent cultural phenomena.

I just read the article; thank you for writing it. It gave me a chance to look at things differently for a moment. I've done my own research and spent many nights in strip clubs with a different experience. I believe the media still wants to glamorize stripping and these clubs. This makes me afraid for our daughters who may believe this is a wonderful way to make a living. It is not. It is harmful for everyone involved. In your piece, you did touch on the power and money of men in the strip clubs, unfortunately that is what is comes down to, men paying for sex from women, prostitution. They say it's the oldest profession in the world but really it's the oldest way of keeping women down. The whole sex industry is getting out of hand. I wish women would try to beat this instead of join it. Some of what I’ve discovered:

61% of strippers are routinely called whore
85% are routinely called Bitch
94% of strippers said their breasts are grabbed repeatedly
91% have buttocks grabbed repeatedly
61% said men have attempted to penetrate them with fingers
39% were indeed penetrated
100% of strippers said they are propositioned for prostitution
79% said it’s daily
67% of strippers said men expose their penises, rub them on the women, and masturbate
100% reported physical abused by customers

(How is this good for our daughters… that is somebody’s daughter, sister, maybe even mother)

Not to mention that Howard Stern said that every stripper he’s ever talked to was sexually abused as a child.

So it looks like we are allowing the abuse to continue but only now, we’re participating in it!

But I do believe that women going into these places make it less likely that men will behave in the same way, and that makes the strippers a little safer.

Sincerely,
Becky Due
Author of The Gentlemen's Club, A Story for All Women and Clildren's book, Blue the Bird, On Flying

I have to say that although I have attempted to be open minded and see this industry as just that, an industry where money is exchanged for some harmless fantasy/entertainment, as a woman, a daughter, a sister and a mother, I just can't quite buy the harmlessness of this. There is a sub-current of contempt and oppression in this so-called entertainment where it is indeed all about power and money, both of which are controlled, for the most part, by men. Yes, the dancers are well paid, but the lingering, negative stereotypes that are formed in these strip clubs spill out into the real world and affect women who don't get paid to get leered at, grabbed at or just plain disrespected. I think the women going to strip clubs and declaring themselves "liberated" and "just like one of the guys" are basically lying to themselves and it is really just another way to compete for the male regard, and if you can beat the sripper at her own game, well, aren't you hot! It's unfortunate that our society is so turned on by degradation. We are so far away from what is truly fascinating about sex, that mysterious, driving force of potentially creating life.