I couldn't imagine my own kids needing to go to re-orientation camp or living in a fake marriage in order to feel loved by me and accepted by me. It's quite sad that people force others to adhere to their own view of the world rather than accept them as they are.

The only thing sad about this story is that the same tired myths and prejudices live on.

For truth, Dolphin might go to the source and not Dr. Spitzer. Any witty, caring, happy, healthy homo worth his or her socks will tell you they were born that way and that they are anything but disordered.

The pitfalls to happiness for people like Brady lie in the intolerance and self-serving attitudes of the Church, parents and the conversion-therapy hucksters. Ironically, this torture is often presented as caring guidance for the 'afflicted' one.

The mother of one gay friend of mine once told him that she wished she had drowned him in the baby-bather. Her husband piped in with his belief that gays were worse than murderers.

I know several gay men who married for the sake of family appearances, thereby thwarting happiness for themselves and their wives. This was done to appease parents and the church-going community.

While I know many who have been subjected to the process, I have never met anyone who claims to have been successfully 'reoriented', despite the testimonials.

From "Love thy fellow man" to "God hates fags"... it's a strange leap. Don't buy into it, Brady!

Here is a question for "Brady"

What happens if one of your treasured children grow up and come out? When your parents and friends and fellow church members heap scorn and abuse and poisonous vitriol on the child that "matters more to me than anything ever could" what will you do then?

Will you defend that child with your entire being? Even if that means coming out after all those years of hiding? Or will you abandon your love for your treasured son/daughter and disown them in order to "get along"?

Interesting article – very much a “Brokeback Mountain” scenario, but without the other man.

The reality of same-sex attraction and the politics of being part of the “gay community” are two entirely separate things. The first is real, the second is contrived. It’s entirely possibly for men to make their peace with the first, while demurring from the second, and there’s nothing hypocritical about it. Trudeau, the Charter of Rights, and gay marriage should be given their due….but what they represent to society should not be exaggerated (either by the proponents or the opponents). There will always be straight & gay people who are forced to make due with unfulfilling domestic partnerships that provide rewards and benefits that transcend the bedroom. Great sex & that intense adolescent romantic love are powerful things, but they can't be our #1 reason for living our lives.

Happiness is something we negotiate out of what life presents us with (sounds trite, I know). I know lots of gay men in loving but entirely sexless long-term partnerships. And Brady has something they’ll never have: children to be a father to. Who is to say which is the correct path? Brady shouldn’t be too melancholy. If he’d conducted his life differently, instead of being a loved husband and father, he could be a wasted scarecrow of an ex-party boy with major addiction problems and three varieties of chronic sexually transmitted illnesses (there are a lot of those). If Brady has achieved a balance he can be happy with, I would definitely not recommend him to dump it all to jump head first into the "gay scene".

The gay demographic that fascinates me most are those who have gone the full nine yards and then boomerang back to the real world with a heightened sense of self. As I hit my mid-thirties, I’m starting to meet a lot of those. To the extent that I have a natural “community”, those people are it.

I'm sorry if I'm commenting "out of place", seeing how this is my first time doing so on Tyee. I just had to say something to that. Nightbloom, it really seems as though you don't know very many GLBT people. If you did, you'd realize that gender and sexuality aren't "black and white" ideas. Being straight doesn't necessarily translate to an SUV and a trophy wife, and being gay certainly doesn't imply "fruitcake."

An older person who is gay is not necessarily an 'ex-party boy' who has 'major addiction problems.' I happen to know happily married gay couples who plan on adopting kids. I myself hope to do that for myself one day.

Again, sorry. It sounds like the "reality" of same-sex attraction that you paint is misleading, judging by what you say in the subsequent paragraphs. Same-sex attraction doesn't necessarily provide you with two dead-end options - which include closeted life and "[queer] community life." Such false dichotomies are exactly the kinds of things that keep people in the closet.

Balance? Wow. I would surely not feel "balanced" being married to a woman. I really don't know about your own sexual orientation, but assuming you're heterosexual, being in a false partnership with someone of the same sex would not be the best manner of introducing "balance" into your life.

Good post, Nightbloom.

Brady Bunch husband can be a good life role, but when it starts with that lie... marriage is a contract afterall. The wife deserves the same happiness and no-one should have to play the dupe.

Still, with love and respect for self and others, any formula can work.

The gay scene holds its perils and might be a bad trade for this guy, I agree, especially if he cherishes his family life.

I believe that gay men are at their best when they celebrate their love of women. Who would want to give that up for the fleeting allure of the bar scene?

The Church, I think, has nothing good to offer this man.

Listen to the heart, Brady Boy! Life is good!

afro-dude, you're stating truisms, bromides & clichés without reading what I actually said.

Everyone knows sexuality isn't black & white...that's exactly why I see Brady's dilemma as a trade-off, not an all-or-nothing scenario.

In no way did I suggest that same sex attraction provides 2 dead-end options. What were you reading? It seems you’re the one promoting the artificial dichotomy. Is everyone with same sex attractions who doesn’t immediately drop everything and hop on your pride-float intrinsically “imbalanced” and in a “false partnership”?

Moreover, I wouldn't necessarily say that people in Brady's situation are ipso facto in "false partnerships" (although if he's that unhappy, he should probably do something about it). At least it's no more false than the huge number of gay male couples I know, who integrate a variety of "falsehoods" into their partnerships in order to make their domestic scene work for them. Marital bliss is no more in our reach because Parliament passed a law than it was before. Go back to what I said about happiness. Each one of us has to negotiate that one for ourselves. Again: you’re the one foisting the dichotomy.

Moreover, at no point did I suggest that all mature gay men are former party boys with addiction problems (although they do abound). The point (again) is that it's a trade-off with no guarantees. Perhaps this one individual (or someone like him) is as close to "utopia" as he's going to achieve in this lifetime. We have to acknowledge that possibility. If he can negotiate happiness where he is, why is he politically obliged to jump on your pride-float?

I was separating the reality of human sexuality from the contrived politics and invented issues which surround it. In the end, the orthodoxies of the gay community are hardly any more of a roadmap to happiness than, say, the directives of religious leaders. Each person must negotiate those shoals for themselves, and live with the outcome. I've met both happy & miserable people at either end. I don't think the essence of Brady's dilemma (and others in his situation) can be seen clearly until we separate the sexual from the political (on both ends of the spectrum).

I think the political nature of your outlook is revealed by your use of the acronym "GLBT". That's fine. It's a useful umbrella term to represent an artificial political construct. It's not reality, however. There is very little true relationship between any one of the letters in that acronym, although the term has its uses.

And yes, I've been out for over fifteen years now. We've probably bumped into each other on the proverbial float.

Hi afro-dude, and welcome!

I don't think Nightbloom was suggesting that Brady's circumstance was ideal by any means (not for me to explain, whatever).

My limited acquiantance with closeted church-going married men suggests that such men would face serious discrimination and rejection from entire support system if they come out to their whole community.

The prospect of hurting and losing everyone you care about must be terrifying. Certainly, it is more than I ever had to deal with and I can understand that for some, it is not an option.

Let's hear more!

As a straight female I probably have little right to comment but here goes: Brady should ask himself how close his wife is to the person - not in a sexual sense - who he'd like to spend his life with. I believe that "marriage" is alot more about enjoyment of company than sex (I'm NOT knocking sex!) As you spend alot more time with your partner out of bed than in it.

Nightbloom says, "I know lots of gay men in loving but entirely sexless long-term partnerships"

So do I, as well as I know personally of a "straight" couple who rarely if ever have sex but if you tried to take one from the other you'd have one helluva fight on your hands. He might be ATTRACTED to men but he LOVES her and visa versa....How or when they got to this point in their relationship I'm not sure but if you ever met them you immediately see the love and commitment.... IMHO it comes down to who you form the "best" relationships not what gender.

I have a good friend who discovered after 25 years of marriage and several children that her husband was gay. She seems to have found a way to cope with it and build a life on her own but it can't have been easy. I'm sure it was no picnic for her husband either although I think he's managed to move on too.
Will these things still happen now that gay relationships are more acceptable? From Brady's more contemporary story you have to wonder. Sad, all round. And there aren't any simple answers, not then, not now.

Yes, because we over-estimate the acceptability of homosexuality outside of major North American (majority-white) urban centres.

Most of the immigrant cultures feeding our population growth in the West are very much against homosexuality. For example, the biggest anti-gay-marriage rallies in the Lower Mainland invariably comprised a veritable sea of angry Chinese faces. Virtually every Vancouver gay bashing I've ever read about seemed to have an 'Indo-Canadian' connection of some sort. These "newer" cultures (new to Canadian society & values) are having big problems with the issue.

It's a learning curve that we'd better be prepared to re-hash many times over the next generation or so.

No kidding! And of course there is a vital political context behind all of that these days - the re-hashing I mean.

Yeah, the politics are horrendous all around. There are all sorts of alternate agendas swirling around the issue (on all sides) which don't actually have anything to do with human sexuality and its permutations.

The debate almost always veers way off, and becomes a touchstone for far deeper social (and personal) anxieties that has little to do with your garden variety gay guy or girl trying to find his/her way to a happy life.

On the one hand you have fanatics quoting Leviticus & Natural Law Theory, and on the other you have dogmatic nut-cases decrying "binary-ism" and "hetero-normative patriarchy".

Reasonable people can't make sense of it, let alone get a word in edge-wise.

Amen! If that isn't too much of a non sequitur!

There is not a shred of credible evidence that anyone is "born gay"--even the authors of studies which suggest it may be a possiblity deny that their studies "prove" orientation is innate. I have personally met over a dozen ex-gay people, and all of them are happy that they are no longer part of that lifestyle. Orientation change therapy is not advisable for teens--only for adults who have decided they wish to pursue heterosexuality. NARTH therapists have found that about 1/3 make a complete re-orientation, 1/3 make significant lifestyle changes (but still deal with attraction issues), and another 1/3 are unable to make the change. The point is that there are therapy options for those who expressly request it, and it is nobody's business if a homosexual person wishes to have this as a therapy goal.

you know dolphin, no one is born strait either. One's sexuality doesn't enter into the picture until puberty so you whole "nobody is born gay" arguement is not only a non sequitur but it also smacks of prejudice. Your stories of success regarding re-orientation therapy are to be taken with a grain of salt. perhaps if individuals such as yourself removed your head out of your you know what, you'd understand that your so-called therapy has no merrit. Stop for one moment to consider what other possible causes exist why a homosexual suddenly becomes "cured". Do you think that for one second, it could possible be due to living in an environment that promotes the notion that being gay is not natural? Why would a homesexual person enter into therapy? Pleae dolphin, use some critical analysis here, it won't hurt. Is it because they are confused about their sexual orientation? Obviously, it is. Do they think that it's wrong? Possibly. Why do they think that it's wrong? Because it is wrong? Or because some segments of society make life a living hell for those dealing with sexuality that doens't conform to YOUR ideals or norms.

I imagine, Dolphin, that the odds of making a point with you are about the same as those of my being reoriented, were I to opt for the aversion therapy, the electroshocks or the full castration package on Dr. Spitzer's menu.

Born gay, I was, as different from my siblings as they were from each other, a bit softer, more artistic, popular with mothers, not into contact sports... known since I was five, felt it all my life, even when I didn't have a name for it, finally discovering that those special qualities in me that people have appreciated all these years are aspects of - guess what? - my gay side! It was a thrilling realization, one that I would wish for every gay youth out there who is struggling against the tide of social prejudice.

Dolphin, if you are genuinely interested in the subject, you might step back from Dr. Spitzer and try reading some life stories from the broader range of readily available gay literature. As it is, your arrogance in preaching so boldly (and dare I say, meanly) on something about which you know so little is very unflattering on you.

It is a difficult climb out of homophobia, but it is a thrilling journey (one that many homosexuals must make for themselves also). From disgust and fear through begrudging tolerance and acceptance to deep appreciation and celebration of what it means to be gay - it is real, but I wouldn't want to be the one to have to break it to the congregation.

Sometimes knowledge is painful, Dolphin, and I will understand if you can't go there.

There's a telling little fragment of homophobia from Dolphin. Straight people get a life, gay people get a "lifestyle". The gay community that I am a part of is fraught with parenting, work, mortgages, gardening...a fairly ordinary living, if you ask me. Very little partying and promiscuity...but some of my straight friends are into that.

When I saw Brokeback Mountain, I felt very sorry for the men, but had even more empathy for the wives, who were not only unhappy but were being lied to. People in the closet don't only repress their own happiness, they are lying to their faux spouses about what they feel. That eventually will come out (pardon the pun) and cause a great deal of hurt. I feel for Brady in the article, but I feel even more strongly for his wife, who is not getting any choice in all this--and is no doubt already hurt and confused by his lukewarm feelings towards her.

The virtue of Brokeback Mountain was that it portrayed the basic reality of love between two men in a natural environment free the group identity that was just starting to crystallize around that time. No politics, no Donna Summers, no bitchy club-cliques...just two guys trying to find their way. It’s kinda like an original Adam-&-Eve Garden-of-Eden story for gay guys (at least that what it meant for me).

The “born gay” debate will never be resolved. Personally, I lean toward the belief that my “gayness” crystallized sometime between age 3 and 5. I vividly recall the deeply emotional fascination I felt for male strangers entering the house – they were “the Other” to me. Women showered me with infantilizing attention, but when the brawny chief of my dad’s construction crew picked me up and tossed me on his shoulders – WOW!

Puberty charged those emotive responses with an overt sexual energy that wasn’t there before. An accumulation of sexual experiences (“repertoire”) does the rest. The power of habit has more of role than lots of people admit. I’ve never quite understood those gay men who seem to have a deep-seated physical repulsion to women (and female genitalia). On that question, I’m with Camille Paglia – there’s something other than sex going on with them. The first time I slept with a woman (long after my first gay experiences) I remember feeling such a sense of affirmation over breakfast the next morning. Can't explain it - I was initiated in a crucial & distinctly masculine way that gay sexual awakening cannot provide.

I've only knowly met one "ex-gay" person (a woman). Nice enough. I think we have to accept that some gay people are subjected to some pretty shitty "gay" experiences that turn them right off the whole deal. I've had just enough of those experiences to understand why someone might be pushed down that road.

I have, however, met several gay men who were involved with a celibacy movement specifically for and run by gay men. It wasn't about turning straight - it seemed to have more to do with re-establishing respect for their bodies and escaping the compulsive search for The Perfect Orgasm. It seemed to have a significant following - funny that you never hear it discussed in gay media. I guess "celibacy" per se doesn't sell too many bathhouse or phoneline memberships.

I don't think anyone can truly reverse or re-program their sexual orientation. I'm not going to condemn those who make the attempt....I just think it's a recipe for turning people into haunted shells of their true selves.

Hehe - okay, maybe that's too much information.

For anyone who doesn't want to wade thru my navel-gazing soliloquy: I think "gayness" is part predisposition (innate) which is then confirmed and reinforced by early formative experience & subsequent habit.

One thing gayness definitely is NOT is a choice.

The debate over choice/compulsion is rooted in the nature/nurture question, which in turn is driven by the political interests surrounding the issue. We need out of that semantic box and deal with the contingent realities.

Great article, btw, Jodi.

Lots more work to be done, not just here in North America, alas

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/02/16/rabbytoo.shtml

Ugh - nice to see Orthodox Jews and hard-line Islamists finally agree on something...

I feel most sorry for Brady's wife - not to minimize Brady's unhappiness, but at least he made a conscious choice. I can't imagine that she could be unaware of the absence of sexual interest apart from creating children, and unless or until he tells her about his sexual orientation, she is bound to feel that she is the one who is unattractive, and will be struggling to fix a problem that isn't hers - or his, for that matter.

It is about the choice not to live in truth - Brady made the choice, and I am sure he felt that he has good reasons for doing so, but he didn't have the right to make that choice for his wife. She is also married to the 'wrong sex', but she didn't get to choose. Actually, the more I think about it, the more angry I feel about Brady's decision to marry her, knowing that he was gay and she was heterosexual - he chose a solution for his dilemma that creates a potential nightmare for her, and that seems selfish to me.

Marriage between people of different sexual orientations could work, but I think only if both parties are aware of what they are entering into.

I agree - "Far From Heaven" is another great movie that explores this theme. I felt a lot of sympathy for Julianne Moore's character (who played the wife of a un-self-realized gay man). Denis Quaid did a good job playing a career-man whose suppressed contradictions start to eat away at him. On the whole, though, his character wasn't nearly as sympathetic - very self-centred in fact.

So on the whole you felt a lot more for the wife's situation, who worked so hard at the marriage because she thought she was the problem, until she gets the nasty shock. Even then she has to somehow work the situation out for her child.

Julianne Moore really can do no wrong when she's on screen.