A great deal depends upon format and moderation, obviously. A free-for-all might be entertaining, but if they are allowed to talk over one another, there'll be no opportunity to hear what they say.

I'm just looking for a Gordon Wilson moment.

While I would be thrilled with someone emerging with trenchant wit, distinct vision, and plausible reasoning, I'll also be happy with a complete train wreck!

Beattie's question is why isn't everyone sharing in the supposed economic growth of the province. His answer: income taxes are lower.

It's the right answer, but not necessarily one he wanted to make!

First impressions of the creepy opening smiles: Robopremier and two Stepford Wives.

My guess is this first round could set the tone for the evening: Campbell makes a pre-canned claim, then Carr and James hit back with pre-canned criticisms.

A minute in, Carole James has her 'read my lips' moment: "There are no taxes in my platform." This after she was served up a softball question about how the poor and working folks were being hurt by the Liberals' policies. That signals a real shift towards the Blair-ization of the NDP, an effort to position the party more like the European social democratic parties that are good managers of the economy.

Mm...first impression of Carole James...good. Has the Clinton smile going on in the eyes. Ditched the unflattering wide lapels. Me like.

Adrienne Carr's trying to jump in and get in the good soundbite -- "but you're backing fossil fuels." If only the voters cared. And were really into Vicki Lawrence.

My wife says: "Campbell has waaaaay too much blush on."

Baldrey wins in the worst haircut category.

Based on comments so far, Carr has decided that her theme is 'sustainability.' It's a mouthful for a debate theme. A key idea, of course, essential to the future of BC. But can you campaign on 'sustainability'?

The camera pullback to read the traffic lights on the leaders' podiums is going to drive me batty before the hour is out.

Campbell looks rough. And surprisingly nervous.

James: "No taxes." Carr: "Sustainability...remember Powerex?" And Campbell: "Eat your veggies." Weird...

Baldry asks James about public-private partnerships in health care.

She gives a direct answer (won't) and a good reason (it costs more).

She speaks well! I'm turning around on Carole James.

I'm listening on the radio.
It's a little uncomfortable up here but it sounds like James is pitbullin' a little better

Carole James' canned question on the splitting up of seniors in care homes was well presented; Campbell's prepared response was surprisingly poor, since he knew this charge was coming.

I'm not sure people waiting two years for a hip are too pleased about saving millions as per Campbell.

Campbell is in a tough position. Two ticked off women hitting him on being mean to old people, sick people. Bad optics. Not gonna play well to the already wide gender gap.

Adriane Carr's opportunity to be Gordon Wilson may already have slipped away. Interrupting Carole James's first question to Gordon Campbell was a mistake. James is projecting well, interjecting effectively and making Campbell hurry up, which doesn't look good on him.

Good topics so far. Campbell's weak points are exposed.

Can't see. Anybody SWEATING?

Carole budges in on Gordon's (somewhat stumbling -- it's not easy to be the front runner, is it?) explanation to say, "Leadership is not easy. It's about making choices, then keeping promises. You have not."

Zing!

Then she goes on to the somewhat maudlin story about Casey from Golden. It makes me think about Casey, our Golden Retriver. We miss you Casey!

Adrienne's ramblin' -- the Green Party's limited budget has given them limited access to professional Debate Style Hypno-Programmers.

James has struck a good balance between agressive and at ease. Given that her criticisms are not new, it's surprising how poorly Campbell is replying. Does he really plan to survive another 40 minutes by repeatedly telling us how great BC is these days?

...But you have to wonder. Don't the optics work the other way? Every guy who considers himself the long suffering victim of a hectoring Mom, wife, girl friend may be feeling for old Gordo.

Boy the lightiing sucks...

Campbell seems a little messy on the radio.
His handlers should have grilled him to a more "well done" level.

Check - First eyes-glaze-over moment. This is all nitpicking and stump speeching. Someone is going to have to demonstrate some vision for BC, or else all three leaders will poll worse at the end of the night.

James totally ruled on the "I was a school trustee for 11 years."

Enough to drive him to drink. And hopefully not drive.

It looks like they stole the set for Reach for the Top. I keep expecting Campbell to reach for the buzzer when he's got an answer...

Is anyone else freaked out by that black backdrop? It reminds me of the kind of lighting mimes use. I hope Campbell doesn't start walking against the wind or something...

It's Dogme 95, visually.

DB points out that Carr's running on "sustainability." James' meme is "leadership." She says that students are achieving because of their own good work (flattering the electorate), despite the lack of...leadership.

Good strategy, I think. It goes after the Libs' weak link (Campbell) and addresses the concern about James (obscure and blah).

Yeah Monte, but this is predictable in BC. It's where we all learn to vote with one hand - we hold our nose with the other.

Marion the librarian gets her revenge: "You want literacy, but school librarians cut by 23 percent." Simplest, toughest question so far.

Education. James talks of cut budgets. Campbell of cut strings. Has happened twice. Can't be a coincidence. Sounding like a canned sound bite.

"I think there's a lot of doubletalk about numbers" -- Adriane Carr.

I think that might be the understatement of the evening. -- Monte Paulsen

Gordo smacks his first base hit: "We have to put students ahead of strikes."

Uh-oh. I think the Girl's Guild has just decided to present a united front.

Although Campbell blinks, pops his eyes, and winces like a nervous nerdy kid, I'm feeling a twinge of sympathy for him.

If Campbell's facts about the dramatically shortened waits for drug treatment are true, that's a real good news story for the Libs. Hasn't been trumpeted much yet until now though.

Sisters in the hood are hoping to win the left.

The TV is now mine. There's a five second delay over the radio. I suppose someone might ejaculate an expletive.

The fact that they're actually managing to wrap up most of their answers inside the time limit (isn't that pretty much unheard of?) is a pretty good indication of just how pre-prepped/pre-recorded the answers are.

I wonder if Gordon Wilson is watching?

After Campbell's programmed eagerness and Carr's nervous antsiness, James' presentation seems firm and sober. The woman has a deep keel.

Gordon Campbell reaches out for Adrian Carr's shoulder as a crutch. I know what the strategy is, but it's not working.

James slips in the first mention of organized crime.

Yup... whoever came up with the line "students ahead of strikes" for Gordo deserves a martini... Nice soundbite.

Carr's said at least twice that she agrees with James' analysis.

A thought about these canned questions. If they got the questions a week ago, why weren't the questions published? Then we could all debate what they oughta say.

My vote for best quote of the night comes from Campbell: "Mental illness is a challenge for all of us."

And a wide transom.

"There's some right in both of you" says Carr standing in the middle. How often do you hear that in an election?

I think Gordon's righting his ship a bit. He sounds condescending, yes, but he's bringing out his talking point, and has eased up on his "patting the air" tic.

Do I vote for the hectoring mother, the mean father, or the wingnut sister?

What's wrong with El Gordo's face?
He looks like a girly man clown faced freakoid...or so my daughter claims.

Someone must have told Carr that "de-linking" drugs and crime will play better for the people who watch/listen to debates than scary terms like... "decriminalize..."

I wonder if Gordo getting beat up by two women will lead to an Elayne Benzinger moment live on camera?

Everybody who commutes down in the BIG SMOKE just dumped Carr on a knee jerk reaction.

James says transportation issues should be de-politicized. Can Campbell resist the temptation to bring up the fast ferries? So far he hasn't raised the ghost of Glen Clark by name.

"It speaks volumes that one of their first acts was to remove the Ministry of the Environment." Zing for James again.

What does groundwater protection have to do with transportation?

Bradley -- Carr makes a good point though. Eight lanes postpones the problem of four lane gridlock. The challenge is to get people to use transit. That doesn't have to be a bad news thing. What if transit could be made stylish and chic? I'd be thrilled if they could make it smell less like barf!

I think Carr may well pull some votes from James, basd on her performance here. She sounds far less scripted than the other two -- perhaps because of her background as a college instructor?

All I'm hearing when the other two talk is their spindoctors and image conultants.

Give Gordon props for not blowing his stack at James' needling.

Carr brings up fish lice. Rafe, are you here?

NDP brought us the plague of fish farming. We're just trying to keep the monster at bay. A good Zing! for Campbell

The premier seems to be having a hard time getting a word in.

Vaughn is loving this...

Gordo! For FOr For what?

Shannon: ya think? Carr looks like a Muppet being shaken vigourously back and forth.

James is right to run on leadership. I have no idea if she actually has it, but debates like this can be about nothing else. They'll all have reasonable points to make. You might think that style is not relevant. I'm thinking that it is the only thing. How else are we to know that, under pressure, the leader will deliver?

Now I've depressed myself.

Leadership is Gordo's strong point, so others should attack it -- always.

"I was an employer as a school trustee," says James... Um... not the best way to sell yourself to the corporate class...

Ron Y - you're preachin' to the converted. I'm all for mass transit and a balanced, visionary transportation plan. But try telling that to Joe Blow who moved out to frigging Aldergrove to afford a condo and now spends more time in his Echo than playing with his kids.

We're three quarters through with this thing and the toughest issue thus far -- fish farming -- was raised by a candidate (James).

The big losers tonight are the so-called questioners. This panel of committee-selected TV journalists was a mistake. Perhaps an inevitable mistake, given the joint-sponsors, but a mistake nonetheless.

Gord has a red squirrel morphing onto his left cheek.

Campbell, unlike James,spends all his time looking at the questioner instead of the camera.

Which makes him look shifty.

Took Gordo 46 minutes to mention the Olympics. Thought we'd hear that much earlier. And has he forgot fast ferries, Glen Clark and the long list of NDipper screw ups?

James goes all school principal medieval on Gordo. "I agree" he says sheepishly.

yeah, where is Glen?

I'm wondering if Gordo has decided not to mention Glen Clark so that James doesn't sound bite him with, "I'm not Glen Clark."

And James waited 49 minutes to mention the sale of BC Rail.

Fast Ferries is a trojan. I think the Libs took a crap deal to make the enemy look even worse.

James asked "which promises are you going to keep" and which promises not.

Campbell: "I think that's actually a fair question."

He didn't answer it. But it was amazing that he agreed to it.

Gordon Campbell reaches out for Adrian Carr's shoulder as a crutch. I know what the strategy is, but it's not working.

Of course... why none of the journalists has gone near Clark, Maui or the Green role as spoiler is another story...

Question? Is it too crass to bring up the leg raids?

The BC Rail sale is an "investment partnership", says Campbell. Principal James doesn't let up with the switch. Will she come off too strict by taking the scolding tone? At some time, as others have said, someone has to project vision.

Regis, I'd like another hour, please.

They need to set up some sort of CHAT or SHOUTBOX structure next time they want to do this.

Okay, if I'm Campbell NOW that James has made her final statement I invoke the ghost of Glen Clark...

Yawn. No surprise, no knockouts.
But only three minutes till American Idol.

Adriane Carr: the last word? Great luck, but too bad she's run out of gas emotionally. She's almost sighing her words.

"Choose a government, not an opposition?" Well, I guess Campbell has to say that since there are only 3 in the house now!

OK, there's being thick skinned and then there is being a barefaced...

Running on jobs and investment, good. Running on his commitment to social services, children, seniors?????? Is he on crack????

Can I vote for Vaughn Palmer?

Does anyone think it's a coup that Carr is standing in the centre? Some would consider the Greens a fringe party, even to the left of the NDP. But she got a chance to ask whether voters could trust the two standing 'to my left and my right.' Fits nicely with the Greens' strategy of attracting those disgusted with polarized politics.

Vaughn told me to buy London Calling, as a Vancouver Sun record reviewer. That set me on a course of good taste from which I have never wavered.

Greens have all the luck: centre seat, last word. If only they were lucky enough to have a better leader.

In the final seconds, did we see Vaughn Palmer just step in between James and Campbell? Did they decline to shake hands?

Carr won this debate the moment she was invited to participate... Whether she'll actually win any seats is another story.

MLY: I think you were dead-on the reason why Gordo don't mention Glenocchio.

Can't help but think James was told to interrupt Campbell because she is perceived to be "not tough."

It'll be interesting to hear the spin and see the polls on this one. Campbell was his usual policy-minded self, while Carole seemed unable to shed the spectre of the 90s. Adriane was, simply, Adriane, which means another lacklustre debate.

It will also be interesting to see what the war rooms of the BCLP and NDP bring out in the coming horus, nitpicking each other's statements to death.

You're right, David, Carr definitely positioned herself as being in the middle of the political spectrum.

Which is odd, given that most people would probably put them to the left of the NDP.

Well, that was predictable.
Everybody behaved themselves.
The set looked like college little theatre. I thought we were going to be treated to Death of a Saleman.
But it was just kind of canned. AS someone already pointed out.

I don't know, Tom, there are a number of pro-lifers in the Green Party. It's a big, big, big tent.

oops missed the debate itself - but your commentary works for me.

glad to read that carole james did well.

and not surprised.

i am interested in the comments about gordon campbell being set upon by two women, and men being turned off by hectoring, scolding, etc.. would those be the words you'd be using if the debaters were all men? i wonder.

Two ways to read the fact that Debate-gate never got mentioned once. 1) The NDP felt vulnerable somehow on the issue. 2) Editors of a certain website may overestimate the visceral pull of the issue on the average voter. Anybody want to weigh in? (No reprisals)

No one was as shocked as I was about Carole James, then? I thought she kicked ass. Very professional, gave meaningful short answers, and looked good.

David, in terms of stage management the star always goes centre stage. Neither leader would allow that for the other. I'm guessing Carr centre stage was the compromise.

But yes, I think it's a coup. When she's not blathering about environmental issues that were hot topics a decade ago, she sounds more -- what's the word? -- real than the other.

Although it would be good if she quit doing that sneering thing with her mouth. Usually when she gestures toward Campbell.

Is Anthony Federov (on American Idol) Gordon Campbell at age 15?

Same glasses and everything.

Cypress - the language may seem sexist but to divorce it from the context (a sexist culture) would seem disingenuous. But that's just what I think, sitting here in my sleeveless t-shirt scratching my balls.

Is it just coincidence that CBC radio has gone from the debate to a feature on the art of heckling, with Gordon Campbell as the showpiece victim?

Anthony Federov has been waiting 15 long years for his moment to say opn television: "I'm not Gordon Campbell."

Ron, the shock for me Campbell. I had no idea he was such a poor public speaker. No wonder he's not allowed to go off the greens. Every time he started to free associated he turned into Mr. Malaprop.

Throw in the shifty eyes and the cringing-and-pleading demeanor and I wonder how the hell the guy became leader in the first place.

It was definitely a handicap match for Campbell. The women folk were all over him like Ron points out. I'm just not certain that the James/Carr strategy will take any all-important male votes away from the BC Libs.

James wins, hands down.
Gordo looked uncomfortable for most of the debate, and the women were able to keep him off the topic of the economy for most of the last half of the debate.
Carr said some rediculously stupid things throughout the debate, stumbling awkwardly as she spoke. At one point, it seemed she accidentally praised Gordo’s leadership… “I praise you for [the citizen’s assembly]. That’s the kind of leadership we need.” She also backed up James’ claim of downloading costs to the school boards, making her look more credible.

James was the obvious winner - anyone who thinks otherwise wasn’t really paying attention.

Carr may have been real, but also very bad, sharing with Campbell a tendency to launch into the talking point instead of answering the question first. (The same error hamstrung John Edwards, who was soundly schooled by Darth Cheney.) She looked way out of her league tonight.

Bottom line:

Carr needed a miracle, and while her policy was the most inspiring, she herself was anything but.

James needed the most coming in to this hour. She needed to introduce herself to the province, and to hit Campbell. She did well both in substance and style. But she didn't score that memorable line or knockout punch.

And so in spite of a nervous and content-free performance on his part, Campbell likely won more than anyone else: He won the ability to maintain the status quo, and ride home in the same bubble he rode in.

(Gordo has left the building.)

I agree with Jordan. It's sort of like Dubya. The more Eastern liberal elites call him dumb, the more Bubba identifies with the guy.

Gordo's a policy wonk, Shannon. He was a high school teacher, and he likes educating crowds, which is impossible in a debate. Plus he has spent four years taking every opportunity to be on a wireless mic so he can roam past the podium and closer to the crowd.

It's been close, but so far Ron Yamauchi wins for funniest posts.

I'd agree with Monte's analysis. Gordon didn't a home run, all he needed was a single. He got it. Carr struck out. James needed that big drive over the Green Monster, but picked up a double instead. Just not enough.

Look at me using sports analogies! Maybe I'm reaching out to male voters, too.

might not take 'all important male' votes from campbell, but more women might be convinced to vote for NDP because of James' work tonight.

people might believe the green's are to the left of the NDP, but they aren't. their general libertarian stripe puts paid to that notion.

As for Campbell's public speaking -- he's ok at best. Kept himself still, used gestures, varied his sentence length. But was also boring verbally and kind of alarming to behold with the the sneaky glittering eyeballs.

How did he become leader? I dunno the behind the scenes machinations, but he launched off the Vancouver mayoralty. James rocked tonight but that doesn't fatten her resume.

From an outsider point of view, I would declare James the winner. I actually felt bad for Carr, I'm sorry, if you can't even get ready for a debate how can you make people believe that you can run a province? As for Gordon, what is there to say? .

Monte, with all do respect I think you're full of crap. I thought she was a lost cause and now I think she could win. This was a spectacular coming out party for Carol James.
If there was no knock out there were at least three standing eight counts. She dominated and was charming in the process. Congratulations Carol, you might just be our next premiere. The big question? Was anybody watching -- will it be to too little seen and too late?

David - thanks, and thanks for having me!

On to this issue of the male/female vote... the whole idea makes me very very uneasy. It smacks of presumption, like the idea about Joe Sixpack who votes for the candidate who is as dumb as hisself. (That's the "reasoning" that explains Bush Jr, and it is utterly wrong.)

Polls show males favour BC Libs, while females favour the NDP.

No way James did enough to pick up all 20 swing seats!

Actually, Ron, Gordo rarely says anything. He repeats catchphrases or slogans. He uses the trick of disarming a questioner by complimenting the question. Then ignoring and moving to his message track. But whenever he attemtps to say anything he babbles.

Maybe this is the oft-mentioned gender thing. Ever since his days in city council the man has made my skin crawl. And tonight's clammy-palmed performance (oh come on, you know his palms are clammy) was just disturbing.

I agree with David. I'm voting for Ron Y, Vonzell and Bo.

Carr missed out on a Gordo-Wilson-"This-is-why-nothing-ever-gets-done" moment. A pox on both your houses is her winning position.

Am I the only person who thought Gordon Campbell's mad eyes became madder and wilder as the hour wore on?

Quite frightening when highlighted by all that red on his cheeks.

I admit that I can't stand to think that people would intentionally vote on the basis of gender, or amiable dumbassedness.

Robert Heinlein once proposed a universal vote with no age limit, but you have to answer a skill testing question (e.g. a simple quadratic) to have the vote count.

While James wins the wrestling match on points, I agree male Liberal supporters won't be pulled away. But I think James will win some female Liberal supporters. Firm, polite, sober (!).

Carr may be real, but a little too real to draw votes. And did she ever drop the ball on electoral reform.

James was a creature of her handlers, but it was a good strategy to keep putting questions to Campbell. And a bad strategy for Carr to keep interrupting them. If she hoped to find her 1991 Gordon Wilson debate moment there, she missed it. I'm afraid I was thinking more of Rita Johnson.

My bold post-debate poll prediction: Liberals and Greens down one point, NDP up two, and James personal approval ratings get a real spike. The differences may not sound like much, and the next government may be a near certainty, but I think James won at least three seats tonight.

Perhaps CJ was the only one with anything to gain from this debate, and she did.

I'm so over this season of American Idol. America voted out Anwar cause he's gay and Nadia 'cause they're stupid. Also, there was no Barry Manilow night.

I thought Carole handled herself the best of the three. Campbell looked badly made up and very nervous, while Adriane Carr looked out of her depth. Agreeing on minor points with the Liberals and NDP didn't make her look fair-minded, just a little scatterbrained.

Interesting that Campbell pushed hard on the evil NDP record at least as much as on his own supposed achievements; it didn't work as well as Carole James's litany of broken promises. She kept her cool, looked at the camera much more than did the other two, and looked good, especially with the flash of colour under the grey jacket.

Campbell seemed rattled, and let James talk over him. Even granted that each leader's job was to slide off every question and to get on message, Campbell's avoidance of questions seemed awfully obvious. It was a surprising lack of self-confidence in a guy who's supposed to be 7 points ahead in the polls. He also needed a haircut.

I can't believe that Gordon Campbell lied on the fish farm issue. And amazed that Carole James didn't trash him on it.

The Socreds introduced fish farms to BC. The NDP imposed a moratorium once they saw the science that indicated there was massive environmental concerns to wild salmon.

Gordon Campbell lifted the moratorium and is hell bent on expanding the industry. These are the facts. The NDP should be nailing the Liberals on this disaster of an industry.

Campbell definitely had a squirelly air about him this evening.

Carr sang to her choir but probably didn't atract any new members.

Carol James swung me. Hard. She delivered something tonight I was utterly unaware she could. Tough minded and,as someone else mentioned, charming to boot. And a smile in her eyes when she wanted it. TVQ it's called.

Yup, once you've screwed up fish, blown off the shipbuilding industry, and regressed on timber processing, it's hard to stand as a Captain of Industry.

Next thing, the bugger will be spraying the pot fields.

James won my vote hands down.
Now if she can beat big labour off, I'm voting for the NDP.

It's always been a point of pride for me that I have never voted NDP, but she has me convinced she has the chops to lead this province.

Wow, a grandslam homerun for Carole James! And Gordon Campbell...what an utter lack of sicnerity and substance.

Here come the NDP hacks...

Becoming the Premier of British Columbia is similar to becoming to CEO of a huge multi-billion dollar company for four years. Nobody will refute that point.

Love him or hate him, Gordon Campbell has both a Bachelor's degree and a Graduate degree from notable universities. After completing his education, he engaged in a variety of undertakings, including teaching at a secondary school, representing CUSO all over the world, becoming a successful businessperson, and acting as the mayor of Vancouver for three full terms. He has been the leader of the Liberal Party for 12 years.

Carole James has a high school diploma and served as a member of the school board and the BC School Trustee's Association. She became leader of the NDP party two years ago.

Can we really put the future of this massive industry that is British Columbia in the hands of a woman that truly has no relevant experience?

I have nothing against Carole James, but perhaps she should serve as an MLA for a few terms practicing balancing her pocketbook before becoming Premier and balancing all of ours.

Carole James won the election tonight. She won the debate hands down. I bet a lot of men just changed their vote because she looked like a better leader than GC and the gender gap among women just got bigger. NDP up 4 points, Libs down 2, Green down 2.

Gordo was nervous, wasn't he? Maybe he was torturing himself in anticipation of being reminded of Martinis in Maui or police raiding the Legislature or illegal donations coming to the Liberals from charities.

She was good, wasn't she ... Carole James.

Nah, the NDP hacks are all over in babble.ca.

It'll be the Liberal hacks in here. Oh, there goes one now.

Don't worry Jordan, Langley will stay Lib :)

Campbell could have broken down sobbing and Langley would still go Lib.

He's probably sobbing right now...

Or raging at someone just as likely.

He really sucked tonite. Someone will pay.

Sorry Jordan are you referring to me?
Name calling is not a constructive method of discourse.
No hack am I.
I'm just a confused voter who may have always voted, but voted for the extremely wacky parties on the right or left on a whim. I voted because none of the mainstream spoke to me but I was going to exercise my vote becuase it is my right.

Now I am convinced that Carole James is the right leader for BC, clown-boy campbell is just a lying weasel, Carr is a bumbler, and James comes across as sensible and sincere.

As the possessor of a BA and MA from notable universities, I can say with confidence that such credentialling has nothing to do with the capacity to run BC--which is a province, not an industry.

As a former school trustee, I can say with confidence that it's a hell of a tough political job, conducted much closer to the voters than any premier ever gets. Carole James did a superb job as a trustee and as the president of the BC School Trustees' Association.

She also went into a badly demoralized party, won over or whipped the old guard, and conducted a well thought out grassroots campaign to rebuild the constituencies. Her ability to run the province stems from her political skill, not her ability to write a footnoted academic essay.

Carole James won the debate because she didnt lose it. I half expected her to trip up and put her foot in her mouth. She didnt. She took the offensive and Campbell for once had to defend himself. Without the comfort of his handlers, police, and advisers around him, he is as much the bully as people percieve him to be.
Campbell had to answer for his record. His defence of the BC Rail 'sale' was laughable. He did manage to score some minor hits on the NDP, but he clearly under performed tonight.
Carr...."ME TOO" Carr was a nice sidebar to the debate and she might score some disaffected liberals to her camp. But those who had parked their NDP votes with the greens are well on their way home.

I loved hearing Christy Clark trash James. That was predictable. But I thought the most hypocritical statement was complaining that James smiles when she attacks. Carole must have learned that from her.

The Liberals could run a bottle of Future Floor Wax in Langley and win.

Campbell could be caught in bed with someone elses wife and Langley would vote for him...Langley has 'never' voted NDP...ever...it went from Social Credit to BC Liberal with ease

James' thin resume is still problematic though. Then again, this is a bounce-back election for the NDippers (sorry, I'm stealing this word), not one where they were expected to win. They needed to go from oblivion to respectable Opposition status, with sights set on 2009. Carole can build up her chops in parliament for a while.

But... could she now seriously be thinking about forming a government? It was only one debate, but she nailed it. Glad I saw it.

Langley: home of the discerning free enterpriser.

Langley : Home of the commuter and highest property crime in BC

Adrienne Carr, looked good in spots but I thought she was very spotty. Terrible closing statement. Very inconsistent.

I suspect all Campbell had to do to hold onto his core support was look sober and not actually have any devil's horns sprout behind those designer glasses... It was a great coming out party for James but she's still running against Clark's record -- leading a party that took two seats last time out. How long did it take the federal Tories to recover from two seats?

The biggest challenge of James' political life is going to come after she wins enough seats to look like a plausible contender in 2009 and all the pros who sat out the last leadership race come out of the woodwork to take a run at her job... Just ask Gord Wilson about that.

Still quite fascinated by what they didn't talk about -- including their teams.

Crawford,

I agree that running the province is different from running an industry. I also praise Carole James for uniting her party from the poor state it was left in when she entered it.

But if you were handing over your money (which, fundamentally speaking, is what we do every day) to someone to manage it, would you be satisfied if this person had never managed money but instead had performed different tasks that - I will take your word for it - are just as difficult as managing your dollars?

I would not give my money to a doctor, no matter how great his or her track record might be in the operating room.

I was watching far away from my computer so sorry if this question is a little late: what is the "Academic Ambulatory Care Clinic at 12th and Cambie" that our Premier cited as an example of a successful health care initiative? Can anyone help me with this because it sounds like giberish you come up with when you rant to vamp. I live not far from 12th and Cambie in Vancouver. Even were I to conjure up some mental picture of what an academic clinic might look like, I can't picture it at 12th and Cambie. Did they put something up where the gas station used to be when I wasn't looking?

Don't forget that many, many BC Liberals vote that way in spite of Campbell, not because of him. He's never been popular, not even pre-Maui..

Take Carole James up against other female NDP leaders like Audrey and Alexa... no contest. Those two look positively weak in debates compared to Carole.

Great comments, and thank you for a splendid night of entertainment. However, I now have to brush the kids' teeth and read them some Lemony Snicket. Good night!

John, I believe it is at VGH.

My mind has been made up since some time in 2002 but I was impressed with Carole's composure. She seemed prepared and didn't seem to buckle on anything. I thought she would fold under the pressure and Campbell's experience.

Campbell, still, cannot answer a question with a yes or no. So much spin. No substance. He couldn't defend his lies as well as I thought he might.

OK, one more...Audrey and Alexa would look bad in comparison to leaf fungus. Their spectre is what burdened CJ with the cringe factor that attended her annointing.

Now on to the Amazing Race!

It sure did Ron, I was thinking Audrey III when Carole got elected but she's made a believer out of me over the past year.

Mark reminds me of a conversation I had one morning on a BC Ferry over 15 years ago. I'd taught a class in Sechelt the night before and bumped into Gordon Wilson, then a colleague at Cap College, who was then rebuilding the Liberals as a kind of eccentric hobby, a sideline to teaching geography.

He told me he was enjoying a lot of success in attracting new members to the party, and had already been asked by the money people what he would take to step aside and let someone else take the leadership. He said he'd turned them down, and the conversation turned to other topics. A couple of years later Wilson was leading the Opposition, and the leadership became truly valuable...as he learned to his cost.

In the present case, I can't think of anyone, in or out of the NDP, who might be a credible replacement for Carole James in the foreseeable future.

Campbell says the debate was even. This just in, he thought the debate would be in written form.

Biggest effect on the BC provincial economy today? The US Federal Reserve raised interest rates.

Whoever wins the election needs the low interest rates to continue, both to save hundreds of millions on debt-repayments and for the obvious demand it creates.

Great comments everyone, really enjoyed reading them.

Carr; Not controlled enough, had a little bit of passion, but no real strenght behind her statements. She probably lost support with her praise of Gordon Campbell and interrupting Carol James.

James: She was strong and steady, a slight crack in her voice at the end of the opening statement was never repeated, so it must have been a little nervousness but once she got going, she was very good. She gained a lot tonight, I think. She has not had very many opportunities to address a wide audience and this was a great eye opener for all.

Campbell: Didn't he look just aweful? The thick makeup and bulging eyes made for a bizzare effect. He did quite well in that he didn't actually break down and cry, but if people were looking for answers to questions, they didn't get them here.

Winner; James, hands down! She has my vote

Guess; Tomorrow's newspapers and television coverage will rate it a tie. :(

Michael, school trustees handle a lot of money, and under the present regime they have to decide where to spend it when there's not enough to meet all the needs. And the head of the BCSTA has to juggle still more competing demands: to express the frustration of the trustees as they have to close schools and drop programs, while still maintaining constructive ties with the government.

I would like to throw a point out for general political debate. Carr made a point tonight praising Mr. Campbell for the citizen's assembly (I believe). Why don't we see more of this in politics? That is, one politician praising the actions of another, regardless of political stance. It takes a very valiant politician to be able to praise the policies of another on the opposite side of the political spectrum. I gained a certain respect for Adriane Carr tonight for this comment.

I had another meeting to go to, so I couldn't listen in on this leaders debate. Still, it does sound like Carr at least nailed this point.

I think Carr was the most scripted, there is a depth of feeling missing. Knowing what you are expected to say is different than honestly feeling it...thus the stumbles.

Where Carole James was effective was in her questioning of his Highness. It was a good strategy because it diminished Campbell from his self-annointed royal court status ...of being beyond question.

James told us she had a plan but didn't mention any specifics. She said that she did not plan any new taxes. I understand that to mean that she would increase current rates.
Neither James nor Carr showed anything except an unattractive carping about Mr. Campbell's inability to effect cures for all what ails our current society.

..Indeed Carole James took this debate where she wanted it to go, framed the issues she wanted frame in her way, attacked Campbell on the record, and won "hands down'". Campbell looked very nervous, ill at ease, completely off the mark, his closing was the strongest. As for Carr...well, I would have preferred to see Tom Morino of the DRBC party up there instead.

...regardless of this opinion, and regardless of who won or lost this debate, the question that remains in the minds of many voters is: which leader and which party has the best capacity to deliver good governance in the public and NOT special interest -- ---and whose competency is best trusted in that regard?

Can you trust Gordon Campbell and his Fiberals to govern this province another four years - given his record --or is time for a change!...May 17th will decide that! I'm voting for Carole James and the NDP with the hope that if elected they will govern in a competent, more compassionate manner for the best public interest within the current political context of this province...and that on some issues, in some sectors they can be persuaded, after campaigning from the centre & centre-right, ---to actually govern more from the left of centre spectrum on the economy, health, labor issues, environment, education, etc. ---so we shall see!

CKNW is pretty much saying that Campbell won the debate.

Is Gordon Campbell good in business? There seems to be some presumption here. He got a degree or two, he taught school, and then what did he do? Gordon Campbell helped to raise the capital to build the Georgian Court hotel. Ask the investors in the Georgian Court hotel if they did well. If memory serves, Tony Parsons was one of those investors. I don't think they did well. Ask notable business pundit brother Michael Campbell if he was good in business. How did it go for him when he was running Equity magazine? I don't think it worked out. There is this presumption about management skill that a business administration degree or a political leaning somehow guarantees success. I'm thinking a business administration degree guarantees the ability to hire a good lawyer.

Jeeves, yep, they seem to be going out of their way to make excuses for Campbell. If Campbell had broken down and cried CKNW would say he looked very human hehe

"so we shall see"...good point Peter Dimitrov.

Close your eyes when Carole James speaks and it's like hearing the MOST annoying ex-girlfriend you've EVER had!

I thought that both Campbell and Carr did a very credible job, though it was difficult to hear all of their points with James' constant interruptions.

I can't deny that whenever James said something during the debate I couldn't help visualizing the following scenario:

A single mom (the public) gets involved with a real charming guy. He's the "fun guy" and at first does all sorts of things for her and her kids. But once he moves in she starts to realize that he's not at all fiscally responsible and is constantly spoiling her children, giving them whatever they want whenever they ask. She finally dumps his sorry ass. She then gets involved with a new guy. He's not as flamboyant but he's responsible and begins to help her & her kids get out of the financial mess they're in. Then 4 years later the sister of the ex-boyfriend comes back, seeking a Lesbian relationship with the woman. And lo & behold, she condemns the responsible new boyfriend for everything, most of which was caused by her brother!

Robert W.

Someone earlier made the comment that Campbell has a MBA and that being premier is akin to being CEO of a multi billion dollar company. Campbell has the acumen and James doesn't.

No. Government is not like a company. Companies are there to make profits for their shareholders. That ideology is what is wrong with the Fiberals. Government is there for all.

I wish Campbell had said that tonight.

rmdw: Which debate were you watching?

Robert, you may want to resolve those issues with your old girlfriend so you can move on and see that everything else in life isn't part of that movie :).

Wading in to the discussion...:

Gordo, nervous Toastmaster man:

Campbell, however was a piece of work.
The bubble boy when not re-breathing the
pharisaical exhalations of his own devotees, looked
lost, greasy and unscripted. He was in bad need
of a fine single malted.

And he stood there and still insisted that he
didn't sell BC rail. Holy hard man!
Not fit for prime
time but he did manage a pretty good Ratso Rizzo imitation.

It was hilarious when scripted Gordo stumbled
and paused, turning his hokey
"What is leadership toastmaster opening into
an inadvertent question." What is leadership indeed?
And don't forget your five heaping servings of ...,
'nough said.

It was like the 29th of September, 1960 all over again.
A tanned & confident Kennedy versus a wan and discomfited
Nixon.

Carole James, the little engine that could:

Despite being NDP lite, I think people saw some real
glimmers of hope in her ability bring warring factions to the
table. She was poised and wasn't shifty. I liked her a lot.
Oh yeah, and I like her policies too. Solving for our own special
capacity for self delusion and partisanship,
I still thought Carol James was poised, calm,
cool and professional. Win to Carol

Ms. Carr, that glass menagerie chick:

Carr, whose policies are attractive and in
MPP might even get my vote was outclassed
by Carole, I daresay. James sounded like
a confident mother calming a unruly child
when bringing Carr onside. There's no way
that Carr is going to pull off the same coup
like that other Gordon from Powell River.
Gord's love doll 'cause she's going to split
the vote for the Howe Street bamboozlers.

Is Jordan the only commentator tonight who actually did not see or hear the debate? ND Hacks? What on earth is he?

Jordan, thanks but VGH isn't at 12th and Cambie. Maybe he was thinking of the STD clinic which isn't too far from the intersection. Woops! Tocuhed the third rail there... careful. I'm pretty sure there isn't an Academic Ambulatory Care Clinic at 12th and Cambie. There is: an empty lot, a city hall, a hotel, and a shopping mall with poor feng shui. I hate answers that turn in to gibberish, 81 million for this, initiative for that, task force for another...when you slow it down you hear things like "Academic Ambulatory Care Clinic at 12th and Cambie" and realize he's more or less making it up as he goes along.

Jordan, thanks but VGH isn't at 12th and Cambie. Maybe he was thinking of the STD clinic which isn't too far from the intersection. Woops! Touched the third rail there... careful. I'm pretty sure there isn't an Academic Ambulatory Care Clinic at 12th and Cambie. There is: an empty lot, a city hall, a hotel, and a shopping mall with poor feng shui. I hate answers that turn in to gibberish, 81 million for this, initiative for that, task force for another...when you slow it down you hear things like "Academic Ambulatory Care Clinic at 12th and Cambie" and realize he's more or less making it up as he goes along.

Which is why Carole had to keep reminding him what the question was.

It's most hilarious how those of you who have drank the NDP Kool-Aid are clearly scared about how well Ms. Carr did in the debate. Wouldn't that be wonderful if the Green Party pulled a Gordon Wilson like feat and actually replaced the NDP as this province's opposition!

No reasonable, unbiased person could honestly say that James won that debate.

The clinic is supposed to go in at 12th and Oak, an intersection I used to know well when I was teaching at VCC's original King Edward campus there. The old building burned down over 30 years ago.

Exactly, Jeeves, the Fiberals have always thought of "the people" as the main obstacle to their quest of acquiring more and more profits for the chosen few. It has never been about governance. They would gladly erase us, in fact, as then it would be so much easier for them to seize control. We are just in the way.

I don't believe many of us have anything against Ms Carr. I imagine she's second choice for most of us. She comes across as nice and that's fine. I agree with her on a lot of issues but until she has seats in the Leg the Greens are still a fringe party. So even if I liked the Green platform better, and I don't, I would vote NDP.

http://talkpolitics.ca/talk/

Media guys like Michael Smythe even say James won it. No one watching that debate from an unbiased position would say anyone other than James won it.

Crawford, sounds like Gordon has a case of the "supposed 2s". 12th and Oak, 12th and Cambie - close enough, even for a policy wonk such as our premier. His other interesting counter-factual tonight:apparently, the 90's had some of the highest commodity prices ever? Really? Didn't his brother tell him about the Asian collapse?!

What struck me about Carr's performance is that she wasn't very good. She didn't come out with much in the way of policy, and she really didn't pull off any kind of Gordon Wilson zinger. She looked at her interrogators and the other leaders more than she did at the viewers. The best she can manage is a protest vote that might put her into the house, where she might have some curiosity value but zero impact.

The Gordo, suffused in the golden glow of his new era and out of his sycophantic coterie of true believers some of whom grace these pages, might just be able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on this one.

The guy sounded desperate. I mean the slush fund, weepy abusive husband with a diamond ring at the front door, policy millions fandango was dizzying. He's just making it up as he moves along.
"Must keep on goin', two witch bitches are killin' me...bzzzzt!'

My money's on DSM IV 301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder

[ http://www.psychnet-uk.com/clinical_psychology/criteria_personality_narcissistic.htm ]

On the other hand, as the Zalmer would say, Carole did fantaaaastic.

John, Campbell did say 12th and Oak--that's the only reason I noticed the point.

Carol James drove me nuts too. I could hear the coaching notes "Attack the Liberal record" , "say something caring, give examples of old people he hurt."

I was actually somewhat more interested in Carr, she's more comfortable speaking now perhaps? The Greens do actually have some important platforms -around supporting small business, and sustainable growth, and not cutting all the raw logs and shipping them elsewhere for processing. However many individual green candidates are not up he the job, and lack party iinfrastructure - which the NDP actually have a lot of.

The Liberals just have a way different philosophy that the Green or NDP, they really don't think gov't is there to redistribute wealth, or provide a social net. SO if Campbell comes across as a cold snake, that's just because he's embodying his party values. He's of no interest to me, so I don't really care how lame he sounds.

I just feel disapointed and frustrated by James.

Arnold:

Appreciate the link. I think you may have diagnosed heir Gordon.

Look, no matter what you think of the leaders, Gordon was a distant 3rd. His L'Oreal blush caked on like he was a hooker on Richards and he couldn't answer a tough question.

The leader of a Province makes all these decisions in the best interest of the province and he can't justify them. Why not? Why couldn't he admit to breaking promises. Whenever pressed he was like a petulant child saying "well... we fulfilled 90% (allegedly) of them".

I think Campbell would have so much more credibility with the electorate if he admited mistakes. Is he not human? It's pretty pathetic. He obviously has "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" - thanks Arnold.

Imagine if Gordon said "Look Ms. James. We made some poor decisions and I take responsibility for them. We've learned and we will ensure we don't make them again."

He's so damn arrogant and self righteous that admitting mistakes is beyond him. Good politicians confront questions on past mistakes with empathy and acknowledgement.

He's a puppet and dare I say... a lousy politician.

MaryJane,

i think Carr was scripted but just didn't manage to follow it. I'd even vote for them if we had a chance at true proportional representation under MPP just to keep NDP lite honest. STV as proposed is not up to the task.

James stayed on message, hit Gordo were it hurts, i.e, a record in office worthy of criticism and has indeed hurt people as a direct consequence of his decisions. What's James supposed to do in a debate? She's go to get to the issues and stay calm while taking on Fiberal man. She did that in spades. Head on a pike.

Jeeves,

Exactly. The guy can't admit a mistake. He was so insecure in power that he couldn't even manage to call the Ministry of Environment, the well uh.. Ministry of Environment. He's gotta call is "Earth Wind and Faire" in same insane Grover Norquist makeover. He's got to call the BC Rail Sale, a joint industrial partnership or some bullshit. They guy is scared of using words that mean something. Even the socreds manage to call a spade a spade. For the Fibs it's all account mangement and smoke and mirros while the furniture is slowly moved out the back door..

Godo wouldn't give the twin sisters of the apocalypse opposition status. a sore loser when he won! Bertuzzi man, sucker punches BC, drives it into the ice, insists this is fair play and that he dind't mean to hurt anybody. There, there does all this new arena make it better?

A debate is no place to be a wallflower, ie Audrey McLaughlin

rmdw dude,

'No reasonable, unbiased person could honestly say that James won that debate."

c'mon, welcome to the real world. if you breathe you are guilty of a bias.you might favour the right or the left nostril but you still need oxygen. so spare us the pious 'objectivity' homilies.

Listening to Michael Smyth's post-debate show on NW, it is very clear that the Campbell Liberals are very worried. By the calls, it became obvious that the Libs had orchestrated a mass phone in campaign to the show.

But instead of praising Campbell (I mean who could hold their nose and praise that stinker of a performance, save for Christy Clark), many callers praised Adrian Carr's dismal performance (remember "she's right"?), while spouting the Liberal line on all the issues.

Clearly, the Libs have been reading their polls, which I believe show the race tightening. After Carol James' strong performance in the debate, the Libs seem to be resorting to Plan B, which is to try to manufacture support for the Greens at every opportunity, to syphon off NDP support.

In the two remaining weeks, watch the (neo) Liberal money start to flow into the Green campaign; it's Campbell's last hope of avoiding a humiliating defeat, or near-defeat.

Very astute, Krispy. Was it just me, or was the green, sustainable candidate running interference tonight? Shades of the next few weeks? Might be a way to capture some of the gender-based votes. Gordo's noxious "90%" hornswoggle was sickening, Carr shouldn't have had a bong hit just before the debate, and CJ (I like that) picked the perefect pre-debate activity - a stroll through the city. Smart. I liked her tonight, and this from a rather sheepish steelworker who has (in the past) called Carole lacklustre. I hereby wish to retract said observation. She nailed that pigfucker but good. I only wish she had brushed up on the facts about the fin farms beforehand; that would've spanked his flaccid arse but good..

Yep, I agree that there was no serious zingers/ knock outs but James did real well, Carr not bad, Campbell trailed...badly...
The next couple of weeks is going to be quite interesting and amusing...

Krispy,

I hope you're wrong about the neo Fibs contributing to the Green campaign though it is not beyond the pale.

Did you hear Carr's plan for winning? Vote for the first Green member of the opposition in BC. There's a useful strategy against a united right. James talked about contained enclosure fish farming which would mitigate the lice factor. Did Carr listen, no she just kept on hammerin'. The best strategic bet is to get MPP off the ground. Then the greens have a real role to play. Though I agree with much of their policies, they're still a boutique party.

At the end of the day of course the Greens have every right to vote for Carr, Americans for Nader, etc. It's just that the outcome of that vote would be a pyrrhic victory. Four more years of Fiberal environmental mismanagement. How much more does Gordo need to destroy the province for the Greens to get a majority X number years from now? Will one tree be left standing, will the inland sea be awash in oil, a unavoidable negative externality? By then, it'll be way too late for a Green, "see, I told you so!".

tommymoore,

isn't that 90% of our goals accomplished thing just pathetic? we'll give ourselves an a+. what an interesting 10% that's been. bc rail underfunded so it would fail, so guys would get laid off and an american controlled compnay would own it. that's economic development. german u boat yards making our ferris 'cause the spriit class ferries weren't good enough? first class ferry seating for all those Fiberal lardassians (from that lost star trek episode "Gordo doesn't get laid on Thanatos IV but the Kirk gets lucky") don't have to sit with the rabble and breathe their stink.

Just like the fact that we paid bureaucrats to count how much "red tape" regulations they cut as they gleefully threw the baby out with the bathwater.

how could any serious analyst under the first decile think gordo is anything but a duplicitous gonif? beats me.

mr. beers; thanks for setting up this online debate.
tommy; nice language, you're truly a class act.
carole james carried herself well tonight and definitely won the debate but without a flip-wilson-type knockout punch it won't matter. she certainly will be a strong presence in the leg, however, and if she is serious about moderating ndp policies and can distance the party from the big unions somewhat it could be a very good thing for this wonderful province in the long run.

The part I liked the best was when James asked Campbell a pointed question about health care, and the cuts in services to seniors, etc. Camppbell's response was to eat more fruits and vegetables! Yup, that'll cheer up a lot of folks who have had to wait 21% longer to get a hip replacement.

BCTV did an instant Ipsos poll, which clearly showed that Carol James came out on top, by nearly a 10% margin over Campbell (31% James to 23-4% Campbell, if memory serves; 33% said no winner). Carr languished far behind.

Remember, 60% said in a Globe poll that they wanted change. "Bubble Boy" isn't helping his cause by the Emperor's Tour approach to campaigning.

To answer John's question: The Ambulatory Care Hospital at 12th and Oak is a P3 that very few people made much fuss about. There was a park at that corner with many tennis courts, all of which are now gone. The neighborhood has been promised green space to replace it.

Doctors moving into this "hospital" will have to pay a substantial rent to the P3 private partner. The fun will be seeing if this works at all. Right now it is nowhere near completion. I would like to know more about this project, myself. This project seemed to be all kept secret, very much like the planned construction of a new St Pauls Hospital in the downtown east side, which will be revealed after the Liberals win the election.

Gordon Campbell’s ability to deny that he cut any funding or sell off BC Rail is astonishing considering he held such a straight face. Or sort of a straight face. His face just looked weird, I imagine somebody got fired.

The Liberals reek of Enron style accounting, moving numbers around to prop up the bottom line and plain old lie when the numbers don’t add up. And that is just what Gordon did to his credit.

Carr stands for values many would believe in if the Greens were somewhat believable. They're not. Carr has a nice message but the devil is in the details. Who doesn’t want a healthy environment? People just want to feed their kids too.

Carol James has shown herself to be much more of a savvy politician than most expected. Maybe it is because the life hasn’t been sucked out of her yet being such a newcomer to the dirty political game. Did she sway any undecided voters with her tough but calm personae tonight? Probably.

Predictions: The local Canwest papers will pull an unflattering frame of CJ and paste it on the front page. The next polls will show the race tightened to within four points.

It all depends now on who shows up on voting day. If the kids and grannies come out, we could see an upset.

I can't get a straight answer on whether the British two tiered health care works well or not.

Wonder if the British election on thursday will have any effect on BC's. It seems the NDP are running a Tony Blair Labour style campaign. It seems to work for Tony.

It's pretty clear...our girl CJ kicked Gorgon's pimply white ass across the stage. I wasn't a CJ supporter before tonight, but I'm convinced--this election is far from over. Didn't Gordo look like he needed a drink?

Prediction: disgruntled NDPers will come home to vote, disgruntled Liberals will vote Green, and Mel Lehan will defeat Campbell in his own riding. Hold onto your ballots--it's going to get dirty from here on in.

Clearly Campbell's worried: "Don't vote for an opposition, vote for a government"...suggests he's worried that so many people are voting NDP to ensure a healthy opposition that the NDP might actually win! (teehee)

Interesting comments all. Although rmdw ravings are showing that no reasonable unbiased person can be a Liberal.

University degrees are fine for basic knowledge. But they are not that main factor in running either a government or a company, especially one that is dedicated to advancing the public interest and not focused on sucking as much money as possible out of the economy and blackmailing people with it.

The BC Business Council and similar elites are loaded with degrees and diplomas. Yet when it comes to building a prosperous and sustainable economy, they clearly couldn't fix a straw if it was bent.

James is the best leader despite her relative newbie status and overly moderate platform because she has the best vision backed up by the legacy of the CCF/NDP. Technical expertise is readily available and can be bought. Principles and values can't.

It's hard to say where things will go from here. But I think it's time for ethical and progressive journalists to go on the offensive and start exposing the lies about the so-called "dismal decade" vs the bogus "Golden decade" and push the facts according to Statistics Canada and other key research agencies showing that we were overall better off in the 1990s than today.

zena,

I just don't see disaffected liberals voting Green. I think like many middle of the road liberals, they will hold their nose, vote Gordo again and hope that CJ takes the Fiberal edge off in opposition, a woman's place is not in the premier's office, apparently. real liberal protest votes will abstain. there's nothing in the green platform that any self respecting dissendent liberal (not of the Fiberal kind, they do exist) can hang their hot on.

CJ's got the 'mo and were it not for the split on the left this would be a sure thing NDP win. it's gonna be a nail biter.

Carole James sounds more and more like a premier the more I hear her.
Based on the leaders' performance, my gut tells me the NDP went up thee points, the greens up one and the Liberals broke even, with all the increases coming from parties solidifying their universe from the undecided. Some soft right voters who think the NDP is evil will now vote Green.
If we ever get proportional representation, voting for third parties will make a difference but this time, it's a two-horse race. Tonight, a great many undecided, male and female, were drawn to Carole and the NDP.
That puts the two frontrunners in a virtual dead heat, which actually favours the NDP.
... as early results come in, the Liberals are elected or lead in 39, the NDP are elected or lead in 39, and in Kamloops, they'll be counting all night to determine who runs the province.
Is CKNW really still on the air?

Can West really is shameless. They commissioned an Ipsos Reid on line poll made contemporaneously with the debate to ensure that the results were unaffected by outside influences (spin doctors and media). I will give them credit for that, and for reporting the results, although I suspect they were a little reluctant to do so as evidenced by the fact that, while they did report that James WON the debate, the supporting graphic showed who LOST the debate as the "who won" results were being read. This was a little distracting, in that if you were looking at the figures they weren't jibing with what was being said and the graphic, being for who lost, had Campbell at the top with the highest number beside his name. Obviously, the straightforward thing to do would have been to report, by voice, and with appropriate graphic the one result a listener would expect to hear- who won. My take on the debate was that Carr won the first of the six rounds, James the rest, but that the whole thing was pretty unexciting. I was certain that Campbell would do nothing but mouth talking points and I was correct. I was disappointed that James did that as much as she did, especially in rounds one and two. She has proven in more in depth formats to be an attentive listener who actually responds to the questions asked in a very effective manner. But, even with that critcism, James does connect with me when she looks at me through the camera, while I usually have to avert my eyes from embarrassment when Campbell is talking. If that holds true for a large part of the audience then my take is that James may have gained some momentum for the rest of the campaign.

Matt writes: "James wins, hands down.
Gordo looked uncomfortable for most of the debate, and the women were able to keep him off the topic of the economy for most of the last half of the debate."

Sorry Matt, there was just so many posts and I stopped and read at a random spot and saw yours.
James wins hands down????? The women were able to keep him off the economy???? "Debate"???
There was no funkin' debate. Christ, I'm only 32 years old and I remember debates where people actually debated. Where sleeves were rolled up and spit started flying!! What a snoozefest. If just a couple times James woulda come out and called him an f'n liar and told Carr to get the "f" off of the Green's alleged monopoly on environmental consciousness. James is a bromide and though Campbell did wear too much blush he equaled James "debate" wise. F'n BS. I'll vote NDP cuz that's what I'm more in line with but god.

Side note. Conspiracy. Carr in the middle so she could conveniently gesture to NDP's James as an equally evil destroyer of all that's green and good. Arranged by pro liberal media???

Well, considering George Bush has an MBA from Yale, education is a moot point and in the case of Bush and Campbell, not an asset. Also, very low brow to bring it up.

I thought Carr did very well. But, not as well as the Liberal plants calling in to the radio programs praising her while staying on Liberal talking points thought she did.

Ms James was great. She showed she has what it takes to be premier. She looks like she's the premier now. If the sun shines on British Columbia, she'll be the premier May 17th.

Campbell looked tense, angry and terrified. Why terrifed? Well, it could be that he was finally treated to the scrum he should have been treated to on a daily basis. The scrutiny he is experiencing now is the scrutiny all prior premiers had to endure every day in Victoria.

It doesn't look like he can take it.

Oh, and James had this unsettling little smile coming through with every word. Didn't like it.

Because Gordon was so soundly whipped in the debate, you will see Liberal pundits and sympathizers (Vancouver Sun), say that Carr won the evening. Carr didn't win - she was a distant 2nd - genuine, off message sometimes, rambling occasionally and a little out of her league overall.

James was surprisingly good. Some might see her performance as a little too tough and hectoring, but she was very solid overall, spoke well to the camera, dictated the tone of the debate and the focus, and backed Campbell, into his corner and didn't let him escape.

Campbell was bloodly awful. He looked scared, missed some obvious points, appeared shifty and said nothing compelling all night - with the exception of "put students before strikes." He had a dismal, dismal performance -making me fully understand why they keep him tightly under wraps during the campaign.

However, because tonight's debate will move anywhere from 3 - 5 seats in James's favour the Liberal will be a little nervous that momentum could start to build for the NDP - which is still unlikely given the low number of undecideds. As such, Carr will receive very prominant and sympathetic coverage from BCTV and the Sun for the remainder of the next two weeks.

p

I also have to add that the sexism and rotten gender specific comments made also by plants, I'm sure, are shocking in 2005. It also is beyond normal public discourse and as such is probably seen as suspect by the public

Jordan,
In 1991, no one thought Surrey Newton could go NDP either. Fourteen years later, Langley reminds me a lot like Newton was then: fast growth, working class, many young first-time homeowners, a rapidly changing community pissed off with the status quo.
Throw in Mary Polak, a poisonous outsider candidate who destroyed the local Liberals' campaign, a credible Green candidate to take the soft right and protest vote, and the NDP's Dean Morrison might sneak up the middle with less than 40% of the vote.

redrivegirl

yeah, women are 'hysterical' (from the greek hysterikos "of the womb, suffering in the womb) harpies who remind me of my girlfriend, mother in law, dumb blone routine. nevermind that the NDP has been basically kept alive by Jenny and another hysterical heckler, joy macphail for the past 4 dark Fiberal years. single mom CJ should win the day if there's any justice in the word. women are the hubs of the social wheel, why shouldn't they be the hub of the political wheel. they couldn't do a worse job than the good 'ole boys so far.

men, debate, go mano a mano, make tough choices, cue the "hungry man soup commercial. bullshyte. it scares me to think that Gordo sits well with a particular male vote in BC. have they been out of the province at the playboy mansion all this time?

Pardon me, but I distinctly recall the first two dozen BC fish farms granted licences by the former NDP government... gaming doubling under the former NDP government... BC Rail being robbed of any prospect of solvency by the former NDP government...

And now Carr is a Liberal conspiracy? You guys kill me.

I was only able to catch the short clips on the 11pm news. Does anyone know where I can watch it online?

From the clips I saw it was much fun to see Campbell squirm. Even the editors at CanWest couldn't filter it. Both Carr and CJ seemed to fare well. It's great to see Carr in the debates and I'm hopefull that Green MLA's will add much needed balance in the Leg in the future. I wonder though if it's time to review the Green leadership in search of someone (dare I say?) electable?

Arnold Snarb wrote:

My money's on DSM IV 301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Gordon Campbell's body language sent disquieting messages throughout the leaders' debate.

Not just his eyes, though they were wild enough ... but also he kept looking sideways as if telling dirty jokes. Those clown-red cheeks! Scruffy hair! And he did crumple at one point, choked for words, and was only saved by Vaughn Palmer calling time.

I'm sorry, but this is a big important job he's vying for. We, his employers, have a duty to ask: is there a personality disorder in the man?

Maybe there's a simple answer to what's hurting British Columbia.

I was surprised by how weak the Premier's performance was. He had more to lose than Carr and James had to gain. A wash overall. Won't change any confirmed voters and the rest were out enjoying the evening. I missed Da Vinci's Inquest for this? was what I thought when it was over....

I missed, like I say, but it sounds like I attended a similar "local" political event. The overfawning politeness of everyone drives me nuts. I miss the old, more combative style of say a Tommy Douglas, and an engaged, heckling audience. I mean folks today are meek little lambies going willingly to the slaughter, and seem to feel its alright that they should be told to keep their mouths shut, and only ask questions.

I'd say the NDP candidate won this debate, using "won" extremely loosely. I mean, he hardly set the place on fire, and as the NDP is, generally, bordered on so compromised as almost to be... no, was wishy washy. My view, for sure. I'm certain there were those who hung onto his every word, like he was a rock star.

The Fib was a complete git, fortunately for the NDPer, who at the end decided that to attack the BC Fed, as a special interest group, to whom the NDP was beholden, was the way to go. The Chamber of Commerce, whose ass he couldn't stop kissing, wasn't though, of course. They are just community interests, right? No interest in profit or any self-interest. Which brought the only brief display of real passion and crowd engagement during the whole boring evening.

The Green was invited but a no show apparently. Too bad, he couldn't have been more bland than these two were. (Unless he is another Carr.)

I don't know. I must be getting really cynical. For sure I feel like I am. I want to shout and engage, when "the culture" of the times is for everybody to sit so friggin' nicey nice, polite and clonish. When I do go outside the "questions only box" anyway, you can feel the mortification, the horror that somebody has actually not obeyed the mandated clone ethic assigned the Great Unwashed.

They even had a Mountie standing at the back of the room, eyeing the assembly like a silent threat, who would start to move towards the source of the "trouble maker" threat-, as they perceived it anyway. It makes me sick.

You only have questions to ask, right folks? What the fuck could you have to say that anyone, certainly from the Chamber of Commerce might want to hear? Everone knows the masses are too retarded to string cogent thoughts or observations together. Just go put your X on that piece of paper over there-, or wipe your butt with it. Same, same.

Another hold your nose election in the Land of The Facsimiled Free and The Home of The Cloned, it looks like to me.

Cantanco, the problem with your Langley theory is that the NDP candidate is getting his butt kicked by the Greenie at every turn, and the Green has a stronger network in the community. NDP will be lucky to finsih second behind Polak.

Ah yes, Mary Polak, BC's one woman evangelical avenging angel. What a treat it's going to be watching her and Carole Taylor squirm together.

"She showed she has what it takes to be premier."

How did she show that? By incessantly complaining for an hour.

Carole James sounded like a leader of the opposition in that debate, not a premier. That's where i think Gordo's, "remember your voting for government not an opposition line came in." She did what an opposition does. She made sure she complained about everything the government does, yet offer zero in the way of solutions.

That's where Gordo dropped the ball. I think he could have attacked her on a few of the issues to see what she would so. Then he could have got her to say she's going for meetings etc. He played it coy which is understandable since he is viewed as mean spirited, but he still could have gone after them a little.

Carole James won the debate due to the fact that she controlled the debate. But the fact is all she did was criticize Campbell, hardly unexpected, all the while offering basically zero of what she would do. She said she offered a good balance, but that’s a joke.

What effect will this debate have? I know you in here are hoping for a miracle, but I don't believe an hour of complaining is going to make a whole bunch of people decide to vote NDP. Maybe it will, but as far as I know she was going after issues of common knowledge to most British Columbians. Carole did nothing to make her come across as a good premier, she came across as a good opposition. I have a feeling Joy McPhail did a lot of coaching before this debate.

Well! Well! Well! You would have to be very close minded to not realize that Carole James won the debate!

She was able to challenge Campbell constantly and to ignore Adriane Carr who came across as quite sanctimonious.

Campbell seemed ill at ease, stumbling and uncaring and really unable to debate! James will make a good leader in opposition or government!

The NDP will have to hope more Carr supporters ignore her also. As a vote for the Green Party may be a vote for a large Campbell majority again??

Even in the Okanagan the tide seems to be turning as Liberal candidates are getting beat up regularly!

Jim, don't forget that we don't select governments, we de-select least palatable alternatives.

Campbell's presentation last night: defensive, discomfort with direct confrontational questioning, pasty faced and rather bug-eyed, pleading, will turn off a lot of voters.

I'm a bit late but I saw something important in yesterday's postings from David Beers " ...But you have to wonder. Don't the optics work the other way? Every guy who considers himself the long suffering victim of a hectoring Mom, wife, girl friend may be feeling for old Gordo."

True enough, except for the visuals. Campbell's extreme makeup and perfectly stupid suit made him look ridiculous and totally non-masculine. Since Nixon and Kennedy in 1960 it has all boiled down to who had a tan and who was sweating on camera. Last nite Campbell was sober and he didn't sweat, ... but he didn't have to, because the other elements, the silly bugger clothes and the Tammy Faye Baker Industrial Stength makeup cost him so dearly.

I only saw a few minutes of the debate, but my impression is that James appeared younger and more healthy than Campbell, and her clothing was better by a long shot. Her dark eyes played well to the camera, and for male voters, she didn't come across as a whiny, bitchy female.

The real gender gap has been the big Liberal lead among men, and it probably got cut in half last nite.

As for michaeldscott's recitation of the academic credentials and business acumen argument, I think the business part has been well handled. Both Bros Campbell have been business failures, and Gordon has never been in business except as a corporate bureaucrat between political situations. As for the university degrees, yes, James doesn't have them, ... unlike such Premiers as Harcourt, Dosanjh and Campbell. Does michaeldscott not sense that British Columbia, having been cruelly disappointed, Hell, even burned by one Vancouver-based, university-educated, so-called "professional" after another may be getting ready to return to its populist roots?

The gender thing is one way to count the cards, the core federal vote is another. Neither the NDP nor the Liberals have anything like sufficient popular vote horsepower to win British Columbia on their own. The division of the Tory vote, who have no horse of their own in this contest, will be the decisive factor. James biggest mistake last nite, no doubt another bit of yahoo advice from Gerry Scott, was not to hammer away at the Liberal Sponsorship Scandal and appeal to all Canadians who are tired of corruption to join with her, and explicitly to tell Conservatives to make common cause with her party.

Jungle JIm,

Yeah, youse know 'dem broads don' 'ave no right to talk back. All deyse do is bitch and bitch 'cause hey, 'deyse bitches am i right, am i right?

Gordo, he's my main man. He be viewed as 'mean spirited' but i know he' be a hard man, ggod to fine, but we need discipline in this 950 year Reich of happy partnerships with CN, N. Like he couldn't bitch slap dat uppity James girl 'cause d'em ugly ass optics, dey ain't good, poor man is constrained, hands tied behind his back, no fair, he's gotta make nice. D'em feminista NDP types, they don have no plan 'cause she didn't go into specifics. 'cause in 45 seconds she shoulda done dat speed reading 'ting wid her whole manifesto. Did i tell you that CJ and AC deyse just complain'. Deyse no doubt synchronizing the curse and 'tractin grizzlies as we speak. What's all the complaining about, looks good from up here, foggetaboudit!

Cambell went off the rails right at the start. He was asked a question about homelessness specifically, and what did he do? Did he show some human compassion or concern about it? Did he say that he'd try to do something about it in his second term? Did he say anything at all about it?

Nope, not a word. Just a one minute canned piece of spin about "how good the economy is". Well, that's real comforting to the folks sleeping in the parks, eh?

Why didn't the Palmer step in and say "Excuse me premier, could you just even try to answer the actual question?" Not that it would have worked.

What happens to real people as a result of his decisions doesn't really matter to him, or so it seems. As long as the "numbers" are good everything must be alright. And if the numbers aren't good we'll spin them to look good.

He went downhill from there.

Jean Binette writes: Arnold, your such a lover. - Coyote couldn't have said it better...

Gee, now I'm really upset I missed the debate, but I've been more than compensated this morning by the walk through this comments section.

Nearly unanimous Carole James showed more grit and heart than did the tin man.

Reports that ol' Gordo blew it are certainly being confirmed by Liberal supporters on this thread who, for the first time since signing onto Tyee are what you might call muted.

Oh, bad time to get a flat tire, especially now that we're under two weeks to E-day and you can't get a replacement tire.

Oh well, they'll just have to patch it up as best they can and try to keep it out of sight.

Good-bye Gordon Campbell.

Hey, you guys, want a good laugh go to the Vancouver Sun in the on line extras section is Election site go in it on the far right is a column below the "sound off" on blogs is a click on to more in that is a sound off on last nights' debate....I think that they must have had two debates.....

Pitbull, Just Liberals trying to swing people, especially those who didn't see it.

allan,

i've heard and used lots of richly deserved perjoratives to describe the Gordo but gotta say, the tin man just nails it. bravo!

We shouldn't forget the poor quality of Campbell's huge majority. Last time he pulled a lot of people who never would have considered voting Liberal because they were buying the line about huge deficits from the NDP. That's now been exposed as a lie.

Then rather than cultivate those new voters, many from among working women, health care, teachers, loggers and millworkers and the like, he immediately screwed them hard. All of them. Unlikely they'll make THAT mistake twice.

James and Carr looked very Canadian. Very everyday, ordinary people. Campbell looked like a Yankee carpetbagger trying desperately to convince the stupid Canuckians that his particular brand of snake oil wasn't the cause of all the illness and death, it really does work. Honest!

The ladies represented us well in another way too. They were mad as hell.

The KO was for me the "Which one of your campaign promises should we believe this time?" line. Followed by the thud and crash of the Campbells "That's a fair question."

Practically a confession, that was. He's lying through his teeth again.

I must confess that a sly grin came across my face when I saw a recent Ipsos-Reid poll stating that men in B.C. were 23% more likely to vote for the Liberals than for the NDP. Though I don't always believe in polls, I'm convinced that this one is right on the money. Why? Because there's a great truth that all men know but few women want to hear. So in the interest of self-preservation (ie. avoiding sleeping on the couch) men rarely discuss it openly and almost never in the presence of women.

What is this big secret? Simply put, men hate being nagged! They can't stand it and will do almost anything to avoid it. Even SNAGs (Sensitive New Age Guys), of which I consider myself a charter member, will take great measures to get out of the line of fire of a nagging woman.

What does this have to do with Carole James' unpopularity amongst men? No man in this province, who is honest with himself, can deny that the constant whining & complaining that Ms. James exhibits on an almost daily basis doesn't clearly remind him of an old, or perhaps current, girlfriend or wife. Even the most emasculated men among us are surely clenching their teeth, turning off their radios, and changing their TV channels when she goes into one of her tirades. So when men hear anything that starts with "Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberals ..." they tune out the rest, instead hearing in their mind: "When are you going to take out the trash?", "Why do I always have to clean up after you?", "Can't you do anything right?", etc.

This is clearly one of those "elephant in the room" situations in life. It's there, everyone sees it, but nobody mentions it. Yet it remains very prominent in the private thoughts of men throughout the province. And come election day, the brief period each citizen spends in the voting booth is indeed a very private time on the most public of days.

You're such a hottie gal, no doubt. How could that not bring a smile to my day?

I'm so desparate for some praise from ya darlin', I'll even take it on the backhand. :-) Always did like my lust a little rough and tumble too. :-)

Jim, I disagree. THe NDP has publicized their parties platform, it's been out for a long time now. So much for the "no solutions" argument.

What I was disappointed in is that Campbell never got to answer Carr when she asked "why is the unemployment rate still at 7%" when Campbell boasted of creating "200,000 jobs". Hm, 7% of 3 million = 210,000. If Campbell was telling the truth unemployment should be a thing of the past in BC.

The Fibs certainly are more than a little down at the mouth this morning. Carole must have at least held her own, instead of Gordo's. :-)

Even Spinning Jeanie is more than a little subdued. (The Lion's Gate Bridge is that way, darlin'. I'll hold your coat and help you over the railing. Can't have ya thinkin' I'm not a gentleman.)

rmdw makes a great point.

Budd if anything that debate pushed more male voters towards Campbell.

The thing is they both played to their core, as obvious by the reaction in here.

How many new voters do you think Carole attracted by complaining about the Liberals record. Personally, I thought the Liberals record is fairly well known.

I'm really surprised that such a balanced message board like thetyee.ca would be heavily in favour of CJ and basically state that she landed the knock out punch.

We won't kow who really won the debate until the election or at least until more comprehensive polls are released.

rmdw posted this stuff today:

"I must confess that a sly grin came across my face when I saw a recent Ipsos-Reid poll stating that men in B.C. were 23% more likely to vote for the Liberals than for the NDP. Though I don't always believe in polls, I'm convinced that this one is right on the money. Why? Because there's a great truth that all men know but few women want to hear. So in the interest of self-preservation (ie. avoiding sleeping on the couch) men rarely discuss it openly and almost never in the presence of women."

It then goes on and on. These are the predictable rantings of a man who stays awake late at night writing paranoid diatribes about women in sports, and how men are being discriminated against by female athletes. See rmdw's rantings here:

http://www.mwtech.com/rw/writing/politics/2003-05-18.html

So many of you folks are in such denial about what the majority of B.C. citizens think. Let's just wait one week for the effects of the debate to settle. Then let's watch the polls regarding:

- Who people think won the debate
- Who people are going to vote for on May 17th

I have little doubt that on May 18th there will be a run on valium by NDP diehards. And if Adrienne Carr can make the breakthrough that the Green Party clearly deserves then the valium manufacturers will be rubbing their hands with glee!!

Robert W.

Budd, nice of you to take my comments out of context. Any reasonable person will obviously see the humour of that particular blog entry.

Can't say I'm surprised that someone of your ilk would immediately turn to the "shoot the messenger" tactic.

But thanks for advertising my personal website! You've helped me out in more ways than one!!

LOL

Majority? You think the Liberals will be over 50%? Even many right-wingers don't want Campbell for a 2nd term but will hold their nose and vote Liberal because they believe he's responsible for all the western provinces enjoying a boom.

Carole James didn't nag at all, she was aggressive and demanded Campbell answer the question. Its just Liberal spin to denigrate any woman that argues with a man instead of smiling and looking demure.

JIm-BOb is back in form today, helping his friend Robert:

"rmdw makes a great point.

Budd if anything that debate pushed more male voters towards Campbell.

The thing is they both played to their core, as obvious by the reaction in here.

How many new voters do you think Carole attracted by complaining about the Liberals record."

Tell me, JIm-BOb, the rmdw who made the good point, ... that would be the same rmdw who is worried that men are being excluded from sports by the rising tide of Amazon females and feminist public policies??? I just want to be clear on that, that it is one and the same person.

As for voter's perceptions of the debate, you're forgetting that it's the visuals that couint on television, just as they always have since the first Kennedy-Nixon debate.

Visually Campbell's age was showing poorly, he looked 55 going on 70. As others noted early on, he was wearing far too much makeup, which was obvious, and his suit was a ridiculous yuppie disaster, far too starched and rigid.

Male voters seeing this image of Campbell will think him a puffed-up wimp, not a policy wonk, a quiche-eating Merv The Perv, complete with molester glasses to match the glassy stare and pasty complexion. Campbell's physical appearance must have been a real serious downer for the average male voter in terms of projecting their own self image through their chosen political leader.

RMDW, not the first time I've heard that -about women nagging...so tell me how CJ could have gone about being forceful enough without coming across as "nagging"......Basically I'm asking how is it that men do it differently?

Regarding the first question posed in the debate about the burgeoning homeless population:

Is anyone else alarmed by the lack of response to the actual question?

Back to the future: Victorian England.

coyote; we're not subdued, we just realize that the debate meant very little, except to show that carole james may provide good opposition in the leg. she was well-spoken and very human and may no longer be called carole who. what you're seeing on this site is cj preaching to the converted. big deal.

The Academic Ambulatory Care Centre (AACC) is a state-of-the-art health care facility planned for the Vancouver General Hospital (VGH) site at the corner of Oak Street and West 12th Avenue. The project is led by the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority (VCH) and will be completed through a design, build, finance and facility management agreement with Access Health Vancouver (AHV), a team of companies selected through an open competitive process. I believe they broke sod last fall but don't plan to take your medical problems there for a day or two.

LOL , I hope Jim and others are campaigning hard for Gordo, the typical Bushite right wing
Paranoid fear of any minority group, either Gals, Gays or any non white citizen. The typical
If its not white it can't be right mentality, (that’s white rich guys) You guys must be eating cake today when you pick up the paper, even the right wing media cannot deny that Gordo got slammed, you see the wooden bubble boy is not used to open debate of anykind, just scripted stump speeches and a well financed media campaign. I also read today that on top of getting slammed it has been leaked that the Liberals were lobbying hard behind the scenes to not have an open debate. You see they can hide him from the TV ads and from the public accept for arranged Liberal events but last night we all got to see Bubble boy. He had to face his record of lies and broken promises and he looked slippery as a snake in snot, I hope Gordo is eating his 6 servings of fruit per day. LOL, Carole seemed like a regular person while Gordo seemed like the neo con wooden white collar poster boy. ( Jim's hero)

After watching the hour long debate, it succeeded in changing my vote. I'm from the riding maple-ridge mission where I would, key word would, have been voting for the NDP and Jenny Stevens, however I changed my mind. Watching Carol James was like watching a brutish politician not realizing what she was getting into. Although I do have a dislike for the Liberals, and Campbell did not fare that well in my opinion either. James' interuptions left a bad taste in my mouth, her interruptions and not letting others speak was like a dictator demanding their will on the majority. At least let Campbell answer the questions posed to him, but James did not, constantly interrupting everybody. I wish the moderator had the guts to cut her off, or at least take away her microphone. My votes changed from Green to NDP back to Green again and its where I am going to stay. This province can't afford four years of either Liberal or New Democratic Party rule.

redrivergirl

I think you'll find W's MBA is from Harvard, not Yale, although he did attend Yale as an undergraduate - got in on an alumni pass.

"Male voters seeing this image of Campbell will think him a puffed-up wimp, not a policy wonk, a quiche-eating Merv The Perv, complete with molester glasses to match the glassy stare and pasty complexion. Campbell's physical appearance must have been a real serious downer for the average male voter in terms of projecting their own self image through their chosen political leader."

I don't want the leader of my province to be my friend. If I was looking for friends that statement would be true, but this election isn't about who would be your best friend it's about who would do the best job of leading this province forward.

Stuart, in thetyee.ca of course CJ is getting rave reviews, but we'll see what the voters think.

PS. there are voters who aren't left wing extremists who feel that Carole needs to do more than bitch at the Liberls.

I know a few people who come across as regular people yet I would hesitate to elect them premier.

What did Carole do in the debate that shows she should be our premier. She just took Joy McPhails notes from the last 4 years and recycled them. Anyone can bitch, that does not make you a leader.

Good on Frank and Bailey for giving credit to the two women in the debate. I'm not a fan of Carr's but neither she nor James were shrill in their approach which is commendable. If they had been more demure they would have been criticized for that as well. It's a hard line for women to walk.

Still, James clearly won because she demanded answers of the man who has spent a lifetime avoiding them.

But it is Coyote's piece about his local candidates meeting that resonated the most for me ... far too many candidates appear more as if they are running for student council president than political office...the waters not running very strong or deep... taking on political positions rather like a trendy disposable suit of clothes, convenient because all the thinking has been done for them and with no connection to the idea of meaning in their own lives. No real wisdom.

So to have the audacity to question this level of superficiality is to expose how acceptable the shallow waters have become for most of the electorate... who have become quite comfortable in this temperate zone... that thrives on the belief that no one dig too deeply or feel too deeply. Doing either is almost criminal these days.

Arnold Snarb,

Look at the key words that form the arc of the right wing narrative,

leading, forward, world class, P3, state of the art, pussy whipped men in the doghouse/couch, there is a left but there's no 'right' , can't afford, women 'nag' whilst men 'debate', students ahead of strikes ('cause those female teachers piss and moan all the time), gord has an MBA, etc.

where's the beef, good burghers of the right unite, you have nothing to lose but your jetskis!

Generally, parties lose elections - the opposition doesn't win them. Seems pretty clear that the Liberals haven't screwed up badly enough - or confronted sufficiently dire economic conditions as yet for them to be defeated. They will certainly drop seats on Vancouver Island and in the interior but I can't see how that will threaten their majority unless something really strange happens in the next 13 days. I think, unfortunately, that it is still not possible to elect a woman premier (unless perhaps that woman is Carole Taylor) in this province - and that's too bad. Campbell is a poor manager and an abyssmal failure as the leader of his own party. For goodness sake, how many cabinet ministers have retired or decided not to run again? This is hardly the record of an effective leader at the head of a cohesive team.

"Anybody can bitch, that does not make you a leader," offers JIm.

Good advice from a man of experience.

Give it up JImbo, Carole won, Gordo lost and it's starting to look like someone's experiencing some free-fall.

RMDW, not the first time I've heard that -about women nagging...so tell me how CJ could have gone about being forceful enough without coming across as "nagging"......Basically I'm asking how is it that men do it differently?

And really, that what most of this is about, at least it's what I hear from the right wing male callers on the talk shows. Carol James sounds like a nag when she attacks the Liberal record. Funny the same thing isn't said when Campbell goes after the NDP (and he has done plenty of that in the last 8 years). Carr, who didn't do so much attacking last night, comes off as "polite." I guess we haven't come as far as some of us would like to believe.

JIm-BOb posted this today:

"Male voters seeing this image of Campbell will think him a puffed-up wimp, not a policy wonk, a quiche-eating Merv The Perv, complete with molester glasses to match the glassy stare and pasty complexion. ... "

I don't want the leader of my province to be my friend. If I was looking for friends that statement would be true, but this election isn't about who would be your best friend it's about who would do the best job of leading this province forward.

So, that's JIm-BOb's picture of leadership material, this is his idea of Premiership timber, a pasty faced man looking older than his years, wearing waaay too much make-up, a stupidly starchy suit, pervert glasses, and a glassy eyed look. Sounds like CEO material alright, ... assuming you subscribe to Law Prog Joel Bakan's view of the corporation!

great comment budd. boy, you sure are smart!

Carole James was strong, charming, confident and clear--a very polished performance. I've never seen her in action and was impressed, as I suspect that anyone who watched with an open mind would be.

Carr may have surprized many people--she surprized me with some unexpected hits and policy messages that went beyond trees & wildlife. But she then she just lost it a few times and came off ditsy.

Campbell was a deer in the headlights--the poor man really looked awful. I kept thinking he looked just like one of those cruel cartoons of himself that the papers publish. Still, I've no doubt his devoted supporters will stand firm with him--it has nothing to do with the man himself, it's what he can do for them, and the bad make-up and glinty eyes don't affect that.

Overall, the format worked quite well, although Campbell and James spent too much time mouthing slogans. I was a bit disappointed that they rarely responded to each other's lines.

Finally, I tremendously enjoyed watching Carr & James ganging up on Campbell--Just rewards for a bully who's done that to so many for four years (I think of all the times he & his packdogs in the Leg have reduced Joy & Jenny to the edge of tears). If his bubble ever burst and he actually had to face all the people whom his policies have hurt, he'd probably find some way to grow a heart!

Wow, great comments. Frank, you sound like a really decent man :) Have to agree with Verso, too. I didn't watch the debate but followed your comments last night (I don't have a tv). This morning I caught a headline (Metro) saying Campbell was "polite" and James "a pitbull." The writer of the article was male (not that that is totally relevant, but it's habit now- I always check to see if a female or male has written the article or review I'm about to read- gives a bit of a heads up on the slant- in some cases, anyway). I kind of laughed because I had read all your comments (from women and men) applauding James' performance and telling it like it really is with Campbell. Ah well, if the Libs win again and the homeless count quadruples and we end up with two schools in the whole province and half a hospital etc... maybe, just MAYBE the diehards will clue in. All this gender difference talk is getting dull, even I admit; the bottom line is do we want an elitist gov't or an egalitarian one?

If one can't campaign on "sustainability" because too few voters can understand it, then those voters at least (if not the rest of us) would seem to deserve the terrible run of unsustainable governments we have had.

Why is Carole James a nagging fish-wife, which seems to be the only substantive criticism of her performance last night, when she trashes Campbell's record and yet no one quibbles with Campbell's characterization of the shape the province was in before the last election - despite the fact that we now know he just plain lied about the state of the economy at the time. If he'd lie about that, why would anyone support him as:
a. a good manager and leader; and
b. someone you'd trust the province to for another 4 years?
I smell double standard.

Jean Binette writes: Well G West if she smells "fishy" you should ask Rafe, he's the expert. - maybe she caught sea lice!

dearpremier.ca

That really moves the conversation along! Did you read the whole post, or is that too much to ask a liberal supporter?

Jean Binette writes: Of course, I did, but I don't know why she's such a nagging fishwife.

That's why you should ask Tyee columnist Rafe, he knows everything about fish, and nagging wives to boot.

we'll see who wins when it really counts. You can praise carole all you want for her bitching , but your opinion does not matter, either does mine. The real test is on election day and the fact is right now more British Columbians prefer GC over CJ.

And again a question I haved raised before comes up. What is Carole going to do to fix the so called mess that GC has put us in. By keeping the status quo. enough said.

It wouldn't be bitching if she actaully offered solutions. But that would be expecting too much.

Now, if I had advice to give women, which I don't, and dared, which I dasn't, :-) I'd just say, if you feel like bitchin', bitch. I never hesitate, and most of the men I know don't either. The man that can't deal with a little aggression from the woman/women in his life, and give as good as he gets, and maybe even cut deals for the sake of the peace, when he's wrong, and I was once, is a wuzz.

Bitchy males and bitchy females are a fact of life along with wimp ass males and wimp ass women. Deal with it.

I clash with bitchy women only because I can be such a dick/bitch myself, on very rare occassions. :-)(Mustn't let the Mrs. see this, or she'll bring out one of her lists she's famous for.)

Jean Binette writes:

Aloha Rafe! - nice friends you have.

Actually JIm, your opinion does matter, and so does everyone's here. It could also be said that we don't know who British Columbians prefer as their leader because they haven't told us yet. According to previous polls, not many people were aware of who Carole James was. No doubt many still don't but regardless, more do today than at this time yesterday. Polling also suggests that as people see her in action they are more inclined towards her.

I doubt Carole converted anyone who could already be accused of being a misogynist but I'm sure she picked up a few more votes last night.

As for your status quo comment, you obviously have selective hearing, refusing to listen to what she says she will do differently. You instead seem to hear only what she won't, or can't, undo.

And finally, if you think GC was bitching for the past 10 years as he attacked the NDP constantly I never heard you say so on here. If you liked Audrey McLaughlin's style of debate of being very polite and never interrupting, you never said so before. Sounds to me like no matter what Carole says or does you will continue to dismiss her and resort to name-calling. No problem, I doubt any leader has ever garnered 100% support from an electorate who could choose from more than one candidate. Fortunately for the NDP others are listening to what she says and liking both it and her style.

Really Frank? - you might consider the fact that all four of your past Premier's have chosen to join the Liberal team during this past term of government.

(Mr. Clark could be the one exception, but he'll most likely vote liberal anyway because he knows where his Armani comes from.)

Furthermore Frank - the only past Premier left out of the humongous hoard is "Fat Dave", who probably never got over the George Kerster whipping. (which you may not recall)

Thank you Fii, and you too Lynn, but I'm actually a woman posing as a man on here so my opinion will be taken seriously. Okay, I'm kidding

Jean, to paraphrase Joy McPhail, at least GC and Paul Martin know where to look for talented people. And fortunately for them, NDP'ers are always willing to put public service ahead of partisanship.

Thank for coming out

Come on Jean, let's at least see something a little funny. I agree with Allan: we know you can be.

You are the enemy, but at least you have some flourishes of humour now and again. Buck up and get with the programme. I was just teasing earlier about the Lions Gate Bridge. I'll be content if you just jump off the curb.

And I mean really, I agree with you right wingers that much, that I don't see CJ and the NDP really having that much more to offer than the Fibs.It's mostly just that it's the old Devil and the deep blue sea choice thing again, and that the Tin Man (Shameless plagiarism for love of the concept.) and the Liars Party have to be punished for bare faced fucking us around. Next time, it's entirely possible we will have to punish the NDP, just with somebody other than the Liars, who can never be truated again.

But ehhh! If you just can't do more than the one liners, at least give us the old sense of humour and pugalism. I actually miss it. :-)

Now I don't know, fella, those wrists are hanging pretty limp. :-) He's even swishing his hips, the tart.

Jean Binette writes:

Sorry my fury fiend but that's all just Coyote Poo-galsim to me.

Really good one. I've seen that deer in the headlights lots over the years. (Only ever nailed one, that I can remember-, at the top of the hill heading towards the Anarchist, just outside Rock Creek.)

Whenever I see that again, it'll always be The Tin Man from here on in.

Please wait until I ring the bell Coyote - you're slobbering!

Ehhh, she's on the mend after that Fib defeat last night.. Whip me, beat me, babe. I love it. :-)

Thanks for the correction, G West. My apologies to Yale.

This just floors me: http://img153.echo.cx/img153/1095/nwpoll4bg.jpg

73% Think Gordo won last night's debate? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Jean Binette writes - Seems right lefty.