Yes Fiat lux,

because I see Capitalist Democracy as the 'fraternal twin' of communism - now that one has died the other cannot be far behind.

The environmental movement may be part of what, in the end, pushes over the greedy, even despotic - so called - democratic, governments.

We need to send a few spies to Asia. Pictured, today, is an eleectric motorcyccle capable of up to 180 kilometres on one charge. It is the Japanese Axle EV-X7.

Actually, my first sentence is total BS because we've long known the potential of dc permanent-magnet motors for vehicle use.

Such powered vehicles would put little into the coffers of the oil industry or governments that talk environment but do little, and although the auto industry could produce such vehicles it seems determined to not abandon the internal combustion engine.

Kentucky farmer and writer Wendell Berry once made an astute observation about the profound flaw underlying both communism and capitalism as systems of human organization: both force humans to be subservient to a colossal institution -- in the case of communism it is the state and in the case of capitalism it is the “free market” -- a market run by anonymous and unaccountable piles of money voraciously seeking to acquire still bigger piles of money, otherwise known as corporations. (1)

Economic analyst David Korten took this observation about the nature of capitalism a step further. He described how capitalism is eerily comparable to the disease of cancer in that the economic players in a “free market” economy that is run capitalistically will forget that they are one unit of a larger network of units that comprise a systemic whole, all of which are ultimately dependent upon each other for survival. When this forgetfulness occurs in a cell in the human body, and the body’s various lines of defense against it are overridden, a tumor will develop as the cell seeks endless growth by dividing itself incessantly, eventually destroying major organs and killing the host through its selfish consumption of resources.

more at: http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Apr06/Baldwin24.htm

more:

We could start by getting rid of a bunch of corporate hacks and yes-men (hey gary lunn!) who answer to corporate america and the oil-sands.
New election now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"But progress will not happen if we stay stuck in our comfort zone; being served a steady diet of nice words..."

I agree. Now for some words with more "edge" perhaps. :-)

I have a slightly different take than either Fait or Murdock, for example. Which is that what has to here passed for "Communism" is in fact but another "form" of the same institution of "Capitalism". (I think there is an objective basis for that development, rooted in the reality that relatively "economically" referenced "backward" societies, generally/ most typically feudal in their main character, in order to move beyond that stage of development, have, and likely all must pass through "capitalist" development in one form or another. The "West" from its Industrial Revolution base in England, followed later by France, evolved by chance an more individualist centred "private entrepreneurial" model(s). Others particularly in Asia, including Russia, took the "dictatorship of the proletariat" concept advanced by Marx into the form of a highly centralized "non-popular democratic state", from which evolved a kind of what I refer to as "Centralized-State Capitalism" model. In many ways, for all its talk of a "workers state", in part due to its later developmenty out of Czarist feudalism, "the masses" in fact quickly came, especially during the Stalin period, to experience certainly a "democracy" that was inferior even to the so-called democracy model that evolved via class struggle within the individualist Entrepreneurial model of Capitalism. (Especially in conditions of waves of counter revolution and invasions that wracked these countries, the "Central State" model of Capitalism became particularly brutal, compared to the relatively more favourable conditions out of which Capitalism evolved in the West.

But the reality that has come down to us regardless is, both have proved only marginally less suitable, one compared to the other, as models of a very deep or meaningful democracy that integrate the great mass of people into an effective democratic system of management and control over either the economy or the state. While both State models remain effectively in the control of Elites who serve an "economic based" ruling class, and hold "popular" or "mass" participation in the affairs and decision making processes of the State, only marginally less than the economy, at arms length, subject to extreme manipulation and so-called democratic systems that are more formal than real.

Which, to return to the threads theme, as one of its effects, has allowed the economy and State to remain beyond remedy to "evidential" scientific and growing but frustrated "popular" concern about the effects greed, never ending growth capitalism are having on the environment of both human communities and the great natural systems of air, land and water, all aspects showing increasing signs of extreme stress and breakdown. Our Neocon friends may choose to keep their heads stuck in their armpits, enamoured with life there, but many if not the majority of us in the scientific, intellectual, street life and aye, working class life are aware of good cause to be alarmed.

Continued next post...

Continued from previous post...

Our Neocon "friends" are so enamoured with simple wealth creation, disregarding as Fait says, its inextricable link with the destruction of these natural systems, easily seen all around us, and the source of all our life sustaining materiality, which they simplistically mouth and jingoistically sloganize their preparedness to disregard, brushing aside with contemptuous dismissiveness, that I think we are going to have to treat them similarly. In this period, with the risks and excesses of greed, and yes the war drives that they are a part of rationalizing and acting as apologists for, if it is not yet, it should become abundantly clear that what is needed is a social force that can and will simply roll over them.

They are, many if not most of them, increasingly beyond the pale of the need to engage in rational discussion. Such periods of history and people unfortunately come to exist from time to time. And these Neocons are the leading edge of such a development within current capitalism, in my view. They run counter to the new direction of a social and economic development model that needs to be set in motion, if lives worth living for all of us are going to be recovered and further evolved.

They are committed "street thug" foot soldiers in the crime wave these, as we are going to have to witness the development of "progressive" foot soldiers no less committed and prepared to deal with them, for a more meaningful democracy, the quality of our lives, and a re-connection of ourselves and our human social form to the natural world we must be a symbiotic part of or slide into extinction.

My view.

coyote..excellent view..and analysis IMHO
Didn`t Marx and Engels caution against revolution under those conditions that Russia was in at that time.. an unindustrialized feudal situation .but Lenin, Trotsky and the Bolsheviks saw the opportunity and went for it while the chance of success was there?

In a word, yes.

And I think it has by now been proved that Lenin, Trotsky and the Bolsheviks, for all of what may have been their good intentions in the beginning, and were I there I would have doubtless joined them, they have been proved wrong by history and Marx right. To this degree.

It is why I think, the models which their experience sought to hand down to us, of the Dictatorship of The Proletariat, in that form at the very least, and the highly Centralized State, is not suitable for radicals and progressives here in the "advanced capitalist" countries."

I think if there is truly a desire that emerges for significant/ major social change in this country, and throughout the so-called "advanced" world, it will be necessary to develop our own model of it, around the central pivot of "democracy"; circumscribing and withering away ruling class power through the creation of a new legal structure (on which Peter Dimitron has very many excellent ideas, in my view), while deepening the content and expanding the range and application of democracy to all social strata levels, but especially the lower.

IMHO.

Having been researching the question of the "common denominator of history's tragedies" for 60 years, and having discovered the currently used, fraudulent definition of economic efficiency 21 years ago, I can solve the problem and cause of the failures of economic systems in one sentence:

"All economic systems that ignore, or try to overrule physical, which also means environmental laws, have always and will always fail"

We have thousands of years of history proving this simple fact. Yet, our so called "economic thinkers" still haven't figured out the obvious. As far I'm concerned, all ideologies and their prophets and pushers, are welcome to go to hell.

Ed Deak.

kind of like whats happening in South America?

I never could figure out how the hell we were going to get "The Aurora" up the Rideau Canal.
:>O

Heavens, how you all ramble. I haven't seen this much running at the mouth since my daughter was a drooling toddler - except that she was cute and dumb and the Tyee gang is ugly and naive.

People are craven and selfish. Has that occured to any of you? It's why people do volunteer work. Because it makes them feel good. People making themseleves feel good is the entire raison d'etre of modern civilizations (and a few old ones too.)
Its why you all come here to snivel about poverty and homelessness, or babble and whine about your inability to become wealthy in either spirit or cold hard cash. You do it to make yourselves feel better, to feel like you're part of a community, to *FEED YOUR EGOS*.
It's neither good nor bad. It just is.
I find it a trifle sad and pathetic for those thinking that rambling on here will do one iota of good though.

For those poor things that stopped thinking about the dialectic when they reached "The End", here's an idea... what happens when there is NO opposing ideology?
Why, the dominant one collapses into itself. My suggestion is for all you crybabies to leave things as they are and simply allow pro capitalists (like yourselves) to run the planet into the ground.

All I am saying, is give SHIVA a chance!

Including your own ideology, Ed? ;-) I personally put more stock in it than you even might then.

Marx claimed his "ideology" as scientific fact/methodology as well.

"All economic systems that ignore, or try to overrule physical, which also means environmental laws, have always and will always fail"

Agree entirely, be it science and/or ideology.

It is difficult sometimes, to know where ideolgogy begins and science leaves off. Sometimes only "experience", assuming we are cognisant even then of what the correct conclusion of it is, makes clear that difference between science and ideology.

Ideology, to me, is but a system of ideas, which may be right or may be wrong, through which we look at and interface with the world.
What makes an ideologue an ideologue, again in my humble view, primarily, is one who stubbornly clings to an idea or system of concepts, when evidential experience transparently makes clear it/they is wrong.

Some of the best ideologues I've encountered come dresseed up in their "scientific facts" suit.

Regards.

And I agree that I have an ideology too, a kind of composite, much plagiarized and very little original, if any of it, that is nonetheless my own-, I think evidence and science based, but which only time and experience will make entirely clear. I am but a living experiment, and perhaps thee?

It is a spring day here, though still with lots of snow in the high mountains, but with the hint of a hot summer in it already. How is it up there on the tundra? 8-D

And you Godschild, can kiss my Shiva-like phallus too. :-) With your own brand of egotistical pretentiousness, eh?

Shiva? But one more of many mythological God creations to rival those of Christianity, and less relevant than a cockroach-, to me. In yo ear, darlin'.:-)

Dream on, religious people. We can talk saving the environment until we're all blue in the face but our polution of this planet is beyond the average person's control.

Some scientists say we've already reached the point of no return - some say that we've got 10 years before we have to turn it around.

Simple question to convenience lovers. How many would give up their TV sets to save the environment?

Let's stick with ideology. So much more comfortable. If specifics are mentioned, ignore them.

The third post was prompted by an inescapable irony in the business section of one of my morning papers. Below the picture of the electric motorcycle, already referred to, was an article headed: Chinese spies in Canada.
Admittedly, China is not Japan but much innovation in greener transit modes comes from both countries.

Hence the suggestion that Canada send spies to Asia.

The Author's contention that environmentalism needs Stephen Harper reminds me of how a catatonic patient might have once been thought to need electroconvulsive shock therapy. Perhaps the diagnosis and treatment are incorrect.

Even at its most triumphant hights in the 80's and 90's, the environmental movement was set up to fall far short of any real accomplishment. The innumerable campaigns to save this and protect that were always prosecuted as battles in a limited war. The most exciting victories resulted in mere partitions dividing what was temporarily preserved from what was left for spoilage.

I clearly remember the point when society en mass wised up to the interminable war aspect of the environmental movement. The moment had clearly gone to the environmental cause. New parks were announced. New clean-up and harm-reduction initiatives were announced. Everyone and everything was suddenly as green as Kermit the Frog. The naive and the cynics together declared that nature was saved.

But apart from the banners and declarations, little had really changed. Worse, much of the public was lulled into a sense of acomplishment.

Confrontations and mass arrests are exciting and make for good news coverage, but always create a situation of winners and loosers. The mobilization of mass protest required images of pure pristine nature at dire risk of irrecoverable loss. The language of conflict made words like compromise and consensus anathama.

However sexy the wartime posture, real, long-term change was made very difficult to achieve by it. Actual environmental preservation provides much less potential for e-rambo action and strident sloganeering.

If you really want any progress in advancing environmentalism, find some comfort in

and hope that the anti-globalization crowd changes its ways or stays away.

Honestly ask yourself how you will make more progress preserving the environment. Is it by convincing the people actively involved in the destruction and degredation of habitat to find more sustainable and equally profitable methods? Or is it by recruiting the action-packed, "us vs. them", crowd to hold a demonstration or padlock themselves to industrial equipment?

The only way that our economy can become truely sustainable in a way that preserves ample healthy non-human habitat is if the economy is made dependent upon it the continued existence of a healthy environment.

Unfortunately, President Harper of the Republic of Alberta will be able to do massive damage in a few short years. Large scale environmental collapse is happening right now. This summer may have the most intensive UV rays on record. The chemistry of the ocean is changing, fish stocks are collapsing or are on the verge of collapsing all over the world. In short, the capitalist monster, just like the dinasours, is becoming extinct. It will be up to communtities to figure out how to live in the ruble of the post capitalist world. Do we have the foresight to protect our local drinking watersheds, our farmland and forests so that we might survive? People like my good friend who ran for mayor of Victoria against a greedy capitalist developer mayor have a vision of sustainable communities with urban agriculture, markets, and an end to pumping PCBs and other terrible POPs into our ocean. Guess what, Matt Price and his so called Conservation Voters of BC decided to back the incumbant greedy capitalist developer who gave some lip service about sewage treatment. My friend recieved 44% of the vote and lost by a margin of around 1000 votes. There is a problem here. Why did this happen? My concern is that too many urban environmentalists do not really want to change their lifestyle. My freind really challenged the status quo including the urban elite envriros. If I learned anything in my activism, it is this: ENGO's are just as corrupt, self serving and scared as any other institution. They don't really want to change the world because then they would be out of a job.

Well, when you anti-capitalist ever discover or invent anything from scratch, perhaps I will listen to you.
The writer makes a good point. It's better to be connected to the power base than estranged from it.
Free markets breed solutions to any obstacle.
If it's a sensible presentation from environmentalists , any sensible Govt. would listen.
It's a reality that you should engage the power base to get things done.

Thanks for admitting that the "power base" is the solution to everything.

It used to be called fascism and people democratic communism, now it is called free enterprise. Under each of these the power elite can screw anybody and they'd better enjoy it, or else.

So what else is new?

You, my friend would have made a beautiful little nazi, or communist with your twisted mind ready to jump on power bandwagons.

Ed Deak.

With the Economyred hot and the country at WAR the only GREEN people are worried about,is that GREEN in their pockets and if you check the price of GOLD lately,you know it's rising out of FEAR[B] not confidence...

IAMC sez ...

haraldkann sez ...make sure you get a reach around from your power base .

"People are craven and selfish."

Don't project your faults onto me mmmkay? I have enough shortcomings without being lumped in with the MINORITY like yourself who appear or like to pretend they don't give a rat's ass for anyone else.

"How many would give up their TV sets to save the environment?"

How would that help the environment? It's already manufactured. Throwing it away would be worse than just keeping it and using it judiciously.

Really, some people's ideas beggar comprehension.

I'm not going to waste a lot of space dignifying the comment by dogsBreath, but while it is obvious that it is fulfilling to do some good in this world, many are guided by this nebulous quality in human beings referred to as a sense of morality. It is not a fear-driven thing. It is something inside some people that says "Hey, let's do this. It's a good idea. Win/win." Altruism and self-interest do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Craven and selfish? I agree with Stump. Sounds like this is the norm in the social world of the dogsBreath ilk. Well, enjoy the bed you've made for yourself, dogsBreath. I suspect one day you will be humbled when someone extends themselves beyond their comfort and convenience for you...just because they can.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/26/washington/26bush.html?ex=1146801600&en=1a700191ed07cb63&ei=5070&emc=eta1

So if our "best friend and trading partner" figures that more poison in the air is the way to go, is our Mr. Harper going to chastize him? Or will he still be practicing Bootlicking 101?

You want to help the environment? Then tax energy consumption. Prices of commodities and activities would be taxed according to the energy required to manufacture, transport, and use.