Books

Chatting with Stursberg, My Ex-Boss and Arch-Nemesis

The former CBC veep shook up my work world, got fired and wrote a book. Time to catch up.

By Kai Nagata, 17 May 2012, TheTyee.ca

Former CBC vice-president Richard Stursberg

Richard Stursberg: Those hazel eyes haunted Kai Nagata's dreams when he was a young CBC journalist.

Related

  • The Tower of Babble: Sins, Secrets and Successes Inside the CBC
  • Richard Stursberg
  • Douglas & McIntyre (2012)

Richard Stursberg's new book includes one particularly perceptive passage: "They would look at me as though confronted by the Great Satan himself. The stench of sulphur and charred flesh seemed to follow me everywhere. Employees looked aside when I came into view."

He's describing the climate in Toronto after the 2005 lockout at the CBC, but that searing hatred never completely dissipated during his tenure as executive vice-president in charge of English services. He was the engine pushing toward a more populist, commercial CBC. He also oversaw the elimination of 800 jobs in 2009. Sitting across from him on the patio at JJ Bean, I ask if the ill will we wished him ever affected his day to day mindset.

"Yeah, it slowed me down dramatically," replies Stursberg. "The level of resistance within the news department, despite the fact it was failing, was unbelievable. I was very conscious of the fact that people were worried and resistant. But at some point it was pretty clear that if we didn't do something, the whole thing was just gonna kind of vanish."

Fort News

It was thus that under Stursberg's tenure, local newscasts were stretched from 60 minutes to 90 -- with the same staff. New, high-tempo graphics and music were brought in. And we had to be live, all the time. I remember as a videojournalist, editing my own news piece, having to abandon everything and run to the roof at 5:00 and 5:30 to deliver gasping, breathless "lives," before running back up for a third time at 6:00 to intro my barely-finished story. Some days in Montreal there were only four reporters to fill an hour and a half of airtime.

"When you look now at CBC News," I ask Stursberg, "do you see your vision realized?"

"Yeah, up to a point. But I had always thought there were two steps involved. One of which is, it had to be this sort of promise of breaking news, 24-hour-a-day breaking news. And going faster than the privates..."

I interrupt him. "I don't ask this out of disrespect, but have you ever broken a news story?"

"Of course not, I'm not a journalist. Why would I break news stories? I've never worked as a journalist in my entire life. But that's neither here nor there. I can still count. I can count how many news stories get broken."

Stursberg's book is called The Tower of Babble: Sins, Secrets and Successes Inside the CBC. The frontispiece contains the inscription "For my father."

Peter Stursberg, the author's father, is one of the living legends of CBC News. The elder Stursberg filed from the front lines during WWII. Yet despite this pedigree, and the framed photo of his war-reporter father in his office (holding "a microphone the size of a pineapple"), Stursberg knew he would be seen within "Fort News" as an "ignorant meddler."

Back on the patio, I try a different tack. "It felt like, after the changes, we were doing shallower, less substantive work." Stursberg eyes me over his coffee cup. "Is it possible," I ask, "to be important and unpopular?"

"Why wouldn't you want to be important and popular?" he asks.

"Do you know any popular dentists?" I reply.

"This isn't the dentistry business, this is the media business," he laughs. "The idea that you have to choose [between the two] is a recipe for complete disaster."

It would appear that news ratings did climb as a result of Stursberg's changes. Whether the CBC now produces more important content is the subject of healthy debate.

Intelligence

Being that we're sitting in East Vancouver, I can't resist asking the former executive about Chris Haddock's cancelled CBC drama Intelligence. Starring Ian Tracey as a local drug lord turned CSIS informant, it was supposed to be the hit follow-up to Da Vinci's Inquest.

In Dec. 2007 the Tyee ran an interview with Haddock in which the writer/producer shared his belief that somebody high up at the CBC was trying to "bury" his show. Three months later, his fears would come true.

"Is it the fact that I'm talking about dope, the narco-economy?" asked Haddock. "Is it the deep integration theme [between US and Canadian spy services]? Is that too politically sensitive for Harper's Ottawa? Is it personal?"

I put the question to Stursberg. Was Haddock correct that someone at the top deliberately killed his show?

"No, this is rubbish. In fact, it was exactly the contrary." As Stursberg talks about his conversations with Haddock, he methodically destroys a wooden stir stick, breaking it into thumbnail-sized pieces.

"The problem was, at the end of the day nobody watched it. The numbers were terrible, they just kept going down. It was not a vendetta."

This would seem to accord with the core logic of Stursberg's decisions at the CBC. "There would be only one measure of success," he writes. "Audiences." Hence his cancellation of arts shows like Opening Night in favour of reality fare like Dragon's Den and Battle of the Blades. Hence the much-maligned overhaul of Radio 2 and the abandonment of classical music. Hence the re-branding of Newsworld as CBCNN, with anchors striding to and fro in front of giant screens.

Despite the mantra about audiences, several top performing sports properties were lost on Stursberg's watch. Broadcast rights to the Olympics, the Canadian Football League, and curling were all snapped up by CTV. Each case, Stursberg says the CBC didn't have the financial leeway to outbid its private competitor.

Political appointees

Now the contract with the NHL is winding down, and the private networks appear poised to snatch Hockey Night in Canada, too. If so, 400 hours of content and half the CBC's ad revenue would disappear overnight. In the face of this looming calamity, on top of brutal budget cuts, the broadcaster's board and current managers appear paralyzed. Their life raft is a vague five-year plan titled "Everyone, Every Way." Could the dysfunction at the upper echelons be deliberate?

"You seem, in the book, a little bit mystified at Hubert Lacroix's appointment as CBC president." Stursberg smiles. "I was a little mystified at his appointment."

Lacroix, a Montreal lawyer, was tapped by the PMO to take over from Robert Rabinovitch in 2008. A basketball colour commentator for Radio-Canada TV and radio during the 1984, 1988 and 1996 Olympic Games, Lacroix contributed more recently to a French-language show about amateur sports. "Are you less mystified now?" I ask Stursberg.

"No, I'm still mystified.

"I think I lay out three criteria in the book that an ideal president of the CBC would have. One, they know something about media. Two, they would have run a large organization. And three, they would know something about the mysterious and byzantine ways of Ottawa. And as far as I can tell, Hubert doesn't have any of those qualifications."

Stursberg's eyes twinkle behind his sunglasses. "It would be like if I phoned you up and said, 'Hey, I have a really great job for you. How would you like to come run a cement factory?'"

Popular or elite?

Insubordination, he writes, is one of the reasons he was fired. Near the end of the book, Stursberg describes that day in Aug. 2010. "Hubert Lacroix came up to my office. He said, 'We are parting ways.' 'Really,' I replied as insouciantly as possible. 'Are you leaving?' He looked darker than ever. What happened after this, I cannot say. The terms of my separation agreement forbid me from describing the moment."

I myself made the decision to leave the CBC a month later. I ask Stursberg if the disintegration he describes near the end of the book -- the endless Kabbalistic parsing of the mandate, the wasted consulting fees, the personal rancour -- if any of that felt engineered. He takes a few moments to answer, fidgeting with the handle of his cup. Finally he says, "I don't think there's a plan to sow confusion."

In the Biblical account of the Tower of Babel, God sabotages construction by mixing up the languages of the workers. It would appear Stursberg does not blame divine intervention.

"Honestly I don't know what it is. I mean some things just seem so straightforward. Why people are uncomfortable being clear about what they want, I don't know."

The PMO, he speculates, doesn't know what it wants from the CBC any more than its appointees on the board. "You know, it's a broadly populist government is what it would like to be. It's a government that wants to reaffirm Canadian-ness, particularly in its historical dimensions. And it's a government that's very interested in reaching out to all the different kinds of communities in the country. The great vehicle for doing all that is the CBC."

"I think what the government should be doing is something really simple. They should stand up and they should say look, this is the kind of CBC we want. Not whispered in corridors, or where people have to slaughter chickens and examine entrails to figure out what the government wants. They should just stand up and say, 'We want a popular CBC' or, 'We want an elite CBC.' Choose, and then say it, and have a conversation."

There is certainly something to be said for conversation. I walk away from ours with a grudging respect for Richard Stursberg. One might not agree with all of his decisions, but at least he was capable of making them.  [Tyee]

26  Comments:

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  • G West

    1 year ago

    Killing me softly!

    CBC television news is such a disaster - not a little because of Stursberg's incompetence - that I doubt it can be saved.

    The only tiny thread of hope one has is the simple but clearly demonstrable fact that, despite the condition of the patient, it still has more to recommend it than the private networks do.

  • pwlg

    1 year ago

    so true G West

    There are two public affairs gems still available on CBC Radio One, "The Current" and "Dispatches"...oops "Dispatches" has been cancelled thanks to Flaherty's cuts.

    There are very few venues for freelance radio journalists these days and Dispatches provided one of those rare venues.

  • mrklyons

    1 year ago

    the last bastion of Canada.

    Growing up on a farm in central Manitoba, the choices for radio were, local am( good if you want to hear the farm report, or wanted to buy a used toaster on the " trading post"), or the CBC. The CBC kept you informed of everything in the "outside world". Without it i would have never heard classical music, or the air farce.
    It sadens me to think that Harper is going to strip down the CBC and sell it off to some multi-national, leaving Canada with some kind of " fox news north", " all the news we want you to hear programming.

  • Slawomir Poplawski

    1 year ago

    Stursberg EDITED FOR LEGAL CONCERNS

    Let us look more carefully at a quoted below fragment as it will show how tricky and profiting in our system is Stursberg. He says that he was fired and a few sentences later we see his words about leaving the CBC after agreement what means being paid (yes, well!!!) for ‘separation’:

    “Insubordination, he writes, is one of the reasons he was fired. Near the end of the book, Stursberg describes that day in Aug. 2010. “Hubert Lacroix came up to my office. He said, ‘We are parting ways.’ ‘Really,’ I replied as insouciantly as possible. ‘Are you leaving?’ He looked darker than ever. What happened after this, I cannot say. The terms of my separation agreement forbid me from describing the moment.”

    EDITED FOR ACCUSATIONS TYEE HASN'T VERIFIED

    I see Mr. Strusberg now as a resurrected EDITED writing book to promote his version of events EDITED. Will we see soon also books written by Rabinovitch and Lacroix?

    P.S. The Bronfman family made big money after intoxicating society with produced alcohol (during prohibition – smuggled production to the US) and now still intoxicates by their cheapest film/music products.

  • alda

    1 year ago

    The problem is that those in

    The problem is that those in charge don't seem to have a clue that public broadcasting has an incredible power to educate a populace (or perhaps they do, and are deliberately working against it). Everything for these Philistine number crunchers seems to be distilled to the bottom-line of popularity and/or profit.

    When execs such as Stursberg pour funds into amusing-ourselves-to-death crapola in order to "gain a popular audience," they contribute to a dumbing down of the public -- a self-fulfilling, Catch-22 situation whereby Canadians will no longer even know what quality programming is when they see it, nor have the patience for it. Furthermore, as junk content mimics what is already offered on private networks, how simple it is for the govt. to say (and rightly so and without much public complaint) why do we even need the CBC? It's suicide from within.

    Public broadcasting should serve to enlighten and uplift the knowledge of its citizens - in the same way that fine education, and, yes, museums, theatre, and the higher arts do. If CBC TV were to take that mandate on, even with POOR DEMOGRAPHICS, it could be revered as a valuable public institution offering historical dramas, in-depth interviews and panel discussions, arts, cultural and educational programming. (That's not to say the occasional sports, popular music, or comedy programs couldn't be included, within reason.)

    With time and an increasingly educated populace, audience numbers would slowly rise, as in Germany and France, etc. not diminish. But for many years now, poorly educated CBC honchos have had it totally ass-backwards, worrying about the top ten hit parade audience numbers instead of what they should be concerned with: educating and entertaining a populace that doesn't currently seem to have a sniff about anything other than Hockey Night in Canada, Canadian Idol, and Dragon's Den. What a waste of a marvelous opportunity, and one future Canadian generations will live to regret.

  • cucciolo

    1 year ago

    Stursberg's book

    So this is the guy responsible for cbc radio 2 format change and CBC TV's Dragon's Den?

    Too bad they didn't fire him before the changes.

  • marcerickson

    1 year ago

  • Slawomir Poplawski

    1 year ago

    So, please verify with me before editing.

    [COMMENTS REMOVED FOR LEGAL CONCERNS HERE...]It was referred to his firing of so many people without providing full explanation at that time.

    I also wrote:

    [...AND HERE...]

    I know what I am talking and it was published in McGill University paper on October 26, 1999.

    [...AND HERE...]

    Please, re-edit my previous post.

    [...AND HERE. - MODERATOR.]

  • Slawomir Poplawski

    1 year ago

    So, please verify with me before editing (additional link)

    a link about Rabinovitch is here:

    http://www.spop.addr.com/article2.jpg

  • Carol Pickup

    1 year ago

    We need to rebuild the CBC as a truly public broadcaster.

    My husband and I watch PBS and Knowledge Network in B.C. and I listen to NPR radio out of Seattle as well as the CBC. The programming on these media outlets are superior to current CBC offerings because they are PUBLIC and not commercial. Canadians deserve much better than,"Wheel of Fortune" and "Jeopardy"!!

  • Skywalker

    1 year ago

    Right on Carol!

    I would add that the tendency to want to make news entertainment is also offensive. After the what, when, why, where and who questions are answered I don't need to hear/see victims emotional accounts. I think I can imagine them. Keep away from the entertainment part of tragic stories. Just because CTV deals with fluff pieces and the latest celebrity brain lapse does not mean the CBC has to follow.

  • John Greg

    1 year ago

    Interesting

    This article brings back to me some long-ago chats I had with my dad, who was Chairman of the CBC in the late 80s, early 90s.

    At that time, his biggest challenge was determining how to deal with Mulroney's massive budget cuts to the corporation, while still trying to maintain some creative juice and journalistic quality and integrity.

    Nonetheless, and inevitably, he made a lot of enemies on the creative side.

    But nowhere near so many as on the beaurocratic sludgepit side. That was where he tried (ultimately in vain, as later chairman rescinded his changes) to make the most effective cuts: get rid of the beaurocratic nest-stuffers sitting around in Ottawa doing quite literally nothing but earning money and tenure, and maintain the creative side.

    But, it didn't work.

    In the end, if you look clearly at history, there is no way to avoid the simple fact that the Conservative party, and its corporate backers, have been waging an all-out war on the CBC since the 80s.

    The results of that war are so painfully clear today. The CBC used to be a critically important and vibrant participant in what made Canada, Canada.

    Now? Sorry, but it's shit.

  • Sask Resident

    1 year ago

    All the people

    Since all Canadian taxpayers pay for the CBC, plus advertisers, shouldn't the CBC serve all Canadians rather than a small group. I only listen to the CBC radio first thing in the morning for a half hour (national then regional news) and sometimes in the car. I usually watch hockey (or at least Coach`s Corner)and The National but have started to watch Land & O`Leary during supper. CBC carries few non-news shows that I would bother watching. The CBC has to become more relevant to a majority to Canadians. They use to have news and news magazine shows but they became advocacy shows for the big egos on them (such as the Nature of Things). Very little international news reporting now on CBC, especially for places outside of Europe. Funny that the CBC reports more about Greece than the US states that border Canada or countries like Australia, Japan or Russia.

  • Slawomir Poplawski

    1 year ago

    Questionably acting moderator

    He/she is afraid/scared of his own shadow.
    What a country, what a site?

  • Jeffrey J.

    1 year ago

    Very Good Writing

    Kai Nagata's raw talent shines through! Like his other work, this article draws the reader in. After the first sentence, I couldn't stop reading until the final paragraph.

    As to Mr. Stursberg's reign, it is obvious that the CBC has been deeply undermined by Harper and his right wing cronies. If Stursberg couldn't meet their 'standards', then no-one can.

    If elite executives like Stursberg ever decide to truly speak out against the Harper regime, Canada might have a chance. But if they remain muted (one's career is always at stake), then the rise of fascism will continue.

    Great coverage as always.

  • stver

    1 year ago

    Stursberg

    While he would never admit it, Stursberg was responsible for the loss of CFL on the CBC. During the lockout in 2005, whichwas totally orchestrated by Stursberg, the CBC "broadcast" CFL games without a play by play announcer or a colour commentator. All you watched was the video with crowd noise in the background. It was a disaster and the owner of the Lions, a rather influential person in the CFL that he would never agree to a contract with the CBC again. Stursberg's line that CTV outbid them is rather self serving.
    The man also didn't have a clue about the network's biggest property - hockey. If you want audiences in each of the NHL's cities, you should be showing the home team in each of those cIties on a Saturday night. He did not understand that ratings in Edmonton would be higher for an Oilers game than a Canucks or Flames game. Mr. Stursberg seem to be on an adventure to save his shattered reputation and the fact that his vision and management were massive failures.

  • Okanagan Orchardist

    1 year ago

    I spend about 6 hours a day at my computer.

    Next to my computer is a small TV, set mostly to CBC NEWS. In easy reach is my remote with the MUTE button colored in bright red. While reading the TYEE, and other on-line articles, I glance at the TV and stop what I'm doing on my computer if I see something of interest on the News. I would estimate that my TV is muted more than 75% of the time. I enjoy Manbridge's interviews and his one-on-one show as well as the Lang and O'Leary commentary. But the news items and the same ads are reapeated dozens of times throughout the day, so you don't miss anything by not watching it all the time. Good thing I'm retired.

  • Doug Park

    1 year ago

    Sadly...

    ...to a degree, I find myself unable to get too worked up about the current cuts because thanks to people like Stursberg, CBC (especially the television portion) is already so little different from the commercial stations, so I never watch it. I have no need for thirty second "it bleeds it leads" "stories." There are few things to recommend the US over Canada, but the acceptance in the States that Public Broadcasting needn't be, shouldn't be, and ain't never gonna be the ratings topper allows it to have at least some shows that actually look at issues meaningfully and in depth instead of just pushing jingles.

  • Gonzaga

    1 year ago

    Relevant

    The CBC needs more money. Its dramatic series aren't watched because they get made in tiny runs and before people can get hooked, they end. We need more public broadcasting, not less. Of course, when Jack Layton suggested that a few elections ago, he didn't win.

  • RickW

    1 year ago

    The Harper "Government"......

    .....is committed to it's libertarian ideal of complete privatization, and because the changes it is implementing may cause it to lose the next election, it must hurry. So one of the tenets of libertarianism it will ignore is size of government - which will continue to grow over the next three years. It will use this as a battering ram to overrun any and all objections to what it is doing.

  • lynn

    1 year ago

    Revealing article

    "I think what the government should be doing is something really simple. They should stand up and they should say look, this is the kind of CBC we want. Not whispered in corridors, or where people have to slaughter chickens and examine entrails to figure out what the government wants. They should just stand up and say, 'We want a popular CBC' or, 'We want an elite CBC.' Choose, and then say it, and have a conversation."

    Almost funny. It is foolish to believe this government is dithering over options.

    It knows what it wants: No CBC.

    What do we want? And are we willing to stand up and fight for it?

    As Rick W. states: "The Harper 'Government' is committed to it's libertarian ideal of complete privatization."

    The operating word being "committed".

    So there is no conversation to be had.

    No matter how some may want to spin it, this is a duel between opposing world views.

    Commitment and loyalty to the private sector.

    Versus -

    Commitment and loyalty to the people.

  • John Greg

    1 year ago

    Lynn said ...

    "Almost funny. It is foolish to believe this government is dithering over options.

    "It knows what it wants: No CBC."

    No truer words have been spoken on this topic.

    Frankly, anyone who thinks otherwise is either addicted to LSD, or is a chronic Libertarian loon, or ... well, nuts.

    I have, as I said, through personal experience, been directly involved with the combative and ugly relationship between the "Canadian Government" and the CBC for almost 50 years.

    Simply put: Pearson loved the CBC, Dief liked it, but was frightend by it, Trudeau believed it to be one of the most important defining characteristics of the country; Clark did not know what it was; Mulroney knew it was a challenge to his dreams and goals of turning Canada into the next Amercian State, and, therefore, began the intense campaign to kill it.

    Harper, of course, carries on that campaign.

  • RickW

    1 year ago

    John Greg

    Well said! What, do you suppose, was Chretien's view of the CBC?

  • John Greg

    1 year ago

    RickW

    "What, do you suppose, was Chretien's view of the CBC?"

    I wish I knew more than I do about that. However, I do know that he was more favourable towards the CBC than any of the past several decades' worth of Conservative politicians, but not as favourable towards the CBC as Trudeau was.

    And, for what it's worth, I also know he was a fan of that wonderful old CBC radio show (much to my embarrassment I cannot recall the name) that used to spoof him with its highly entertaining, very funny voice imitations of him.

    As an interesting side-note, one of Trudeau's early ventures into the public arena, pre-politics, was as an occasional interviewer (not interviewee) on one of my dad's first TV shows in the mid-sixties. And I presume that is, in part, where Trudeau developed his very strong support of the erstwhile valid and critically important CBC.

    I really miss the old CBC, and not just because of my personal connection. I used to listen to CBC radio almost religiously, but it has now become, in my opinion, almost unlistenable -- I have not, I must admit, listened to CBC radio in about two years.

    In my opinion, and at last listening, As it Happens had become little short of some kind of weird public relations program for all things corporate and dysfunctional, and Ideas (post-Sinclair) became not much more than some kind of theistic and woo nonsense proselytization booster, and as for the rest, well, all the good programs are gone, and have been replaced by junk.

    Boyo, do I ever miss David Wisdom.

    Also, unless I am mistaken and have misunderstood the Website, CBC radio is no longer even available over public and free airwaves; it's all become one of those horrid pay-for-it special interest online-only type of broadcaster. I really hope I am wrong about that, but I don't think I am.

  • lynn

    1 year ago

    John Greg

    I miss the old CBC, too.

    It's been really wonderful to read your personal take on this issue as well as the fascinating inside stories about your Dad and about Trudeau, among others, that you've included in your comments.

  • John Greg

    1 year ago

    lynn

    Thank you. I appreciate that.

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