Alcibiades - this isn't actually old news. This is a big story on CNBC, Yahoo! Finance and probably tomorrows papers.

The topic may be old, but the report and Blair's speech was released today. I agree that there are major societal and economic ramifications to global warming.

I would however caution the source of the report - Al Gore & Tony Blair. I would have preferred a less biased report. That being said, Britain is perhaps the only country that has followed the Kyoto protocol.

Wait till Greenland melts, it will be very big news!

Capitalism said: "I would however caution the source of the report - Al Gore & Tony Blair. I would have preferred a less biased report."

Do you really know who wrote the report? Do you really think Al Gore and Tony Blair wrote it?!

Biased? How so?

Do you prefer the deluded approach-Don't worry, be happy(never could stand that song!)?

Wait, we will just manufacture a climate change sized supply of paper towels to deal with all the water from melting ice caps!

Capitalism? Tony Blair? Are you dumber than I give you credit for? Tony Blair, the chairman of Carlyle defense, the same Carlyle that has Rumsfelt, Bush Sr. and Jame's Baker as Carlyle's directors, the most notable of war mongers is suddenly environmentally green...

You're quip is to stupid to be laughable. The rest of England's ruling party and electorate isn't quite so blind and gullible. As for the U.S. elections, its a wait and see.

(God, where do these knuckle draggers come from...) Cappy, try learning to read the article first before commenting. Maybe someday, readers could actually take you seriously, even when most will disagree with your obvious bias and greed filled motives.

This isn't old news Cappy?
What have you been doing for the last 10 years?

Only the brain dead don't know what's been happening to the environment.

You didn't even read the article closely enough to know who authored the report - as your post above so plainly demonstrates.

You might want to read it again, slowly, and aloud - it may make a real impression that way.

The report was written by, wait for it:
Sir Nicholas Stern, former chief economist of the World Bank - someone who's right up there in your list of capitalistic icons no doubt; and it, was referred to in the Daily Telegraph (Conrad Black's old paper so it's no left-wing tabloid) as an intellectual knock out blow.

Are you still seeing stars or what?

But it's so exagerated! Why, on the radio today, I heard it would cost the world economy only 7 trillion dollars......sheesh!

Another opportunity to contact polititians instead of just posting a comment to the converted.

For starters, write provincial and federal politians and demand they spend more on public transit and less on highways so people have the option of driving less and thus reducing their GHG emmisions.

Thanks for committing to make a difference!!

Rt. Hon. Stephan Harper
Prime Minister of Canada

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cc:

Hon. Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities
Hon. Bill Graham, Liberal Party and Opposition Leader
Hon. Rona Ambrose, Minister of the Environment
Hon. David Emerson, for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics
Hon. Jack Layton, Leader, New Democratic Party
Hon. John Godfrey, Liberal Critic, Environment
Hon. David McGinty, Liberal Critic, Transport
Hon. Andrew Scott, Liberal Critic, Infrastructure and Communities
Hon. Stephane Dion, MP, Liberal Party leadership candidate
Hon. Michael Ignatieff, MP, Liberal Party leadership candidate
Hon. Peter Julian, NDP Critic, Transport
Hon. Nathan Cullen, NDP Critic, Environment
James Moore, M.P., Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam
Bob Rae, Liberal Party leadership candidate

Premier Campbell

http://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/38thParl/campbell.htm

BC MLA's can be found here:
http://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/3-1-1.htm

This Global Warming debate has become political, not scientific.
It's all about money [ funding ], and the vanity of man.
Kind, the money transfers to Russia were ridiculous.
I would rather slit my wrists than agree with Kyoto.
Let's start the fight now, because it's inevitable.

That is so typical of you Ron. And I thought Forest Gump was stupid.

Grumpy

And good news for the Greenlanders. Maybe all the people from Richmond can move there.

Saw this on the news tonight, and immediately pondered that the 7 trillion in costs, 200 million in refugees, seemed a bit low, unless it's a time-limited deal ending in 2025; I'd venture it's going to cost at least that every ten years, and more, and the displacements of people from rising waters, spreading deserts, dried-up rivers and a dwindling food supply will hit the billions by 2050. I think it's also that a lot of current political and social problems are inherently environment-global warming related, and Stern hasn't considered those or calculated them in (this includes the MidEast as well as Chinese/Indian industrialization).

RickW:

-surely every good capitalist (okay, I know - oxymoron) cannot ever underestimate a future expenditure - we can't even cap the cost for a 2 week sports event - which we seem to be idiotically more enthusiastic to plan our corporate vomit for. What is slightly more distasteful that the concern is for dollars - not the real cost of life, habitat, and the continuation of our parasitic relationship with our host. We have mastered many natural laws, but never learned the natural law of civilization - as humans have seen them rise and fall - none having achieved sustainability. Either we employ all those with a quick mind (thereby excluding all neocons by definition)to see us through this shotgun deadline - or lament the fact we were gifted with the self-destructive gene - and we never got to spend all those millions we were saving for that rainy day that never came.

rac:

You can send emails to every single Con MP you want and what you'll get in return is the exact same response in return, letter for letter, diglot for diglot. The only exception would have been Garth Turner. He happened to be a real Conservative, someone who would answer back personally, not like Harpers Republican yes men MP's we've got today.

Say, if you want to make a difference, file a complaint with the RCMP against the Conservative party for canvassing for campaign donations for MP's that don't belong to their party... like they did in Garth Turners riding in Halton Ontario.

Fact. The Cons listed Garth Turner as an independent in the house of commons 25 days before they brought up the idea to get rid of him in a Conservative meeting in Ontario.

Fact. The Conservative party was canvassing in Halton for Conservative donations days before Garth Turner was uncerimoniously given the boot.

Fact. Its a clear case of fraud.

Avicenna:
Always good to read you, woman. :-)

No question about it we as people are SELF DESTRUCTING and the planet is being contimnated quickly. Think positive and you may live longer!

Just an LSD - Light and Serious Discussion.

Writing to the cons, as noted above, is a serious waste of effort. Diane Findlay took 8 months to respond to a letter I wrote in regards to their child care policy. The letter was an insult to my intelligence as it stated only the party line and referred me to various websites. She could have sent me a party brochure. There was no reference to the issues I raised whatsoever. I've written her back pointing out what she missed and letting her know that an 8 month delay getting back to someone who pays her salary is unacceptable. So when it comes to a truly serious issue, such as the environment, expect to hear from rona the robot in, say, 2050. She comes across as one who has trouble spelling her name.

This world is truly screwed and there is no way out of it for any of us with the leadership of any country currently in power.

aalborg:

Would you agree, that one solution would be if somehow the people of this planet had one party that has a platform going beyond the local issues?
The multintionals have their organizations worldwide, and they have no loyalty to any specific country!
Is it not sensible that WE,the consumers (who are feeding them), should unite worldwide?
Just asking, not pushing any left/right dialogue, but a consumer facing up to the way the world is waylead insearch of profits!

Funny how the media seems to be running more stories on climate change now that an Economist has added his '2 cents worth' (yes pun intended!).

Before, most economists were lamenting how much it will cost the economy to address climate change and reign in greenhouse gases.
Seems everyone is listening more intently when an economist speaks of how much it will cost if 'we' do not address climate change.

I wonder if climate change and the steps taken to address the issue will ever have an effect on the price of oil or investment in oil? When will stock holders abandon ship?

Up the revolution is my mantra. I'm good at the talk, not the walk. If someone knew how to organize and motivate the masses, I'd be there. In a heartbeat. But it won't happen. The majority of us are beyond angry at all levels of governments, for so many failings on their part. The arrogance is number one in my mind. To know that each word they utter is a blatant lie and to know that they are laughing uproariously at us behind closed doors is, sometimes, too much. To know that profit and greed are more important than any single citizen is beyond galling. Their greed is one thing but you can't motivate the masses when they are caught up in their own kind of greed and their stupidity. We are all going to die, surrounded by our stuff. A nuclear war or the environment. Something is going to get us and it will be soon.If you can't stir your own small community to feel anything beyond apathy, then how do you unite the world? There are lots of mini-revolutions by regular people who don't feel they can take it anymore. These are going on daily. What do they do to make the situation better for whatever the cause du jour? Nothing. There really is no hope for mankind.

It is always good to see climate change in the news. It's is the only way to educate the public on the dangers of global warming. In the last election it didn't even rank in the top 5 issues which is hard to believe considering the horrific consequences.

Capitalism demonstrated his ignorance when he said "Britain is perhaps the only country that has followed the Kyoto protocol". He must be getting his information from Stephen Harper and Rona Ambrose. The fact is that 30 of 34 countries are on track to meet their Kyoto targets which include Britain, France, Germany, and Sweden.

The "Made in Canada" Clean Air Act is not worth the paper it's written on. Instead of having emissions targets and timelines it is full of more consultation with industry. The Conservative government use to accuse the Liberals of doing nothing but talk and now they are doing the same thing.

It is time for Canada to join the rest of the world and start reducing our Greenhouse Gas Emissions now.

Sweden's emissions are 2% below their 1990 levels. They are committed to be free of fossil fuels by 2020.

Germany is 18.5% below 1990 levels and have offered to lower it to 40% by 2020 if the European Union accepts a 30% reduction target.

France has reduced emissions by 2% already surpassing its Kyoto target.

The U.K. has reduced GHG emissions by 12.5% and should reach 25% by 2010.

So Canada (that would be you) do your part. Go buy a few compact flourescent light bulbs and ride the bus to work several times a month. Its clear that our federal government is lacking leadership and has no intention of doing anything constructive to solve this global crisis.

My concern is that when countries really accept that they have to meet Kyoto targets, they look to nuclear power, or acknowledge, in the case of many countries, that it already plays a big part.

Nuclear power was not mentioned in the 58 pages of their 2002 Discussion Paper on Canada’s Contribution to Addressing Climate Change nor in their 2002 Climate Change Plan for Canada. In 2003 over $1 billion dollars was allotted to various energy efficiency, transportation, industrial research and development, and other programs aimed at climate change. Nuclear power was not mentioned, though subsequently $46 million from the climate change budget was given to Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL) for research on it Advanced CANDU Reactor (ACR).

Besides nuclear waste, the problem is regulating an industry that requires a uranium enrichment or plutonium reprocessing industries that undermine nuclear nonproliferation efforts. If things continue as they are, history will show that the current international politics of Iran will be seen as just one symptom of a broader causes of burgooning energy demand combined with climate change concerns. Indeed, the direct effects of climate change will create human migrations that undermine the systems in place the regulate the nuclear industry.

The funny thing is the Stern report is the optimistic side (as opposed to the blind ignorant side). The pessimistic view is that of Lovelock (Gaia fame) and Hansen (NASA) and others of similar stature.

Hard to be optimistic at all.

Moosebeer said:

"So Canada (that would be you) do your part. Go buy a few compact flourescent light bulbs and ride the bus to work several times a month. Its clear that our federal government is lacking leadership and has no intention of doing anything constructive to solve this global crisis."

Were you being sarcastic in the post?

Because if you believe what you suggest will make a difference, then you are one of the many deluded ones!

Its all about the continuous and increasing consumption silly! Do the math!

...Exactly Freebear-consumption and our insatiable desire for stuff is a huge part of the global issue.

Why is it that we expect government (at any level) to foresee and solve our problems? Are we really that stupid? It is clear that as citizens of this planet we all have a stake in preserving the climate.

So, it is ultimately our responsibility-each and every one of us- to look at our lifestyle of excess and ask ourselves: "What do I really need for everyday survival?" Stop being excessive-don't buy over-processed, over-packaged imported goods. Spend more time with family and friends-preferably outdoors, instead of the boundless pursuit for stuff. Look for items produced closer to home-and ask yourself "Do I have to drive my car? Do I really need IT? Will IT enhance my life? How long before IT breaks or loses appeal and winds up in the garbage?"
We need to embrace a "Take what we NEED" mentality and focus on leaving the smallest footprint we can on the Earth. In all of these discussions there is no consideration of other species, many of which are far more susceptible to the changes to the environment. And why is it only when $ are brought into the discussion does anyone pay (ha-ha) attention? Groups like David Suzuki Foundation and Western Canada Wilderness Committee have been for years warning us of the inevitable global changes.

t doz said:

"Groups like David Suzuki Foundation and Western Canada Wilderness Committee have been for years warning us of the inevitable global changes."

Yet a great deal of the demand for energy and the sources of greenhouse gas emissions come from urban environments; yet WC2 and Suzuki Foundation pay little attention to urban planning, design and how we can plan and design our cities and towns to reduce the ecological impact.

But then you must also recognize that there is a limit to the physical growth of settlement; and that a city will not keep physically growing.

The adherence to the growth philosophy will be our demise-whether its growing waistlines, consumption, or the continued paving over of ecosystems!

How a 200-Mile Consumer May Save Disappearing Glaciers

Some seven winters ago, in a very small town in cold,
cold, northern Michigan, where furnaces run 11- ½
months a year, I huddled by a fireplace in a public
library reading a stack of magazines. It was amazing to
see nearly 75 different magazines available in a
library of an American town, population 1,500 souls,
according to its welcome sign.

The main story in one obscure magazine's back issue was
about how the magazine contracted one of this planet's
super-geniuses to devise an action plan by which any
person (not just governments or corporations) could
make a really big impact on global warming, and save
the environment.

One result of his research, oddly enough, was recipes
for novel dishes, mainly vegetarian. The magazine
article told of a very simple way to save the planet:
'Eat nothing grown outside of a 200-mile radius of your
home, and you will help put an end to increasing
greenhouse gasses, wars, and even pollution-caused
cancers.' Wow.

The 200-mile diet advocated by this magazine claimed
the power put an end to many of mankind's ills. For
example, it would make nuclear power plants, wind
turbines, and protests over coal-burning and highway
expansion, largely unnecessary. Environmental groups
could be disbanded, as would secret police and death
squads in countries with resource conflicts.

The magazine's author/genius lived in a desert area.
Therefore, he had to prove that he could live with a
200-mile diet, himself, eating cactus and succulents.
Hence, he had to publish his recipes of desert dishes,
as proof.

However, to myself, the 'pill' prescribed by the
research seemed to hard to swallow: I imagined being in
a dietary jail, committed to a diet of plum ginger
chicken salad, poached pears, honey-sweetened apple
tarts, and salmon on a bed wild rice pilaf. Who could
possibly live with that?

However, there would be some benefits, too. With so
much energy saved by the 200-mile diet, I'd be able to
trade in my electric bikes for a fire-breathing Tesla
electric car. Cities would change, too, as the need for
wind turbines are eliminated. No longer economically
viable, Toronto would have to chop down its downtown
wind turbine and have to live with its only other
tourist attraction, the CN Tower. With no more
environmental problems to protest about, the David
Suzukis of their communities would have to work normal
jobs, like say, prepping sushi. With fewer cancer
patients, many cancer research organizations would have
to close their doors, or find even better cacti recipes
than the magazine's researcher/genius did. Why, the
world would be so different that we'd hardly recognize
it: Our soldiers would be repairing leaky condos
instead of doing battle with the Taliban; the Trout
Lake farmers' market would be bigger than Oakridge Mall
and Metrotown combined; Granville Island's brewery
would need Annacis Island just for itself; oil
refineries around the Fraser's riverbanks would be
replaced by hemp fields; gas prices would collapse to
20 cents a litre; Greenpeace activists would be
protesting about bottled water instead of climate
change. For that, and more, all I'd have to do is to
buy nothing grown outside of my 200-mile feeding zone.

[continued.. my comment was too large for one posting]

Gadzooks, the little magazine's researcher/genius
managed to figure out a world citizen's action plan to
Save The Earth, nothing less. Suddenly, I started
imagining planet Earth on the tip of my fork, little
ice caps shrinking, and polar bears drowning for lack
of an ice floe to sit on. That was some seven years
ago. Now, even more dire forecasts and predictions from
scientists, climatetologists, glaciertologists, and
Santa Claus (he lives on the North Pole) compel us to
go even further: We must activate a 200-mile
consumption plan as well as a 200-mile diet, if we are
to save this planet for future generations. Yes, it
will be very hard on you and me to survive on just BC
wine, BC seafood, and BC beer. But what about really
essential, everyday stuff that they can't possibly make
in BC? Like great-looking cowboy boots, skunk-blinding
flashlights, and super-long-range WiFi adapters? Oops,
I recently learned I was misinformed-- yes, apparently
we do make those products locally, too.

Encouraged by this new information, and strengthened by
the diet of local seaweed, fire mushrooms, and
free-range salmon, I eagerly agreed to help Silbury
School (silbury.ca) students take the 200-mile
consumption plan one step further: Revive single-use
batteries that the battery manufacturers say "should
not be recharged." But why pick on these little
harmless batteries, you ask? Well, according to a
Mountain Equipment Coop blurb, these little harmless
household batteries allegedly comprise up to 70% of all
heavy metals in landfills. And landfills will
eventually leach their contents to the water supply.
You can trust the lawyers from "A Civil Action" on
that! (Yes, you can trust lawyers to do something.) The
alternate route for dead batteries is a battery
cemetery: BC's dead single-use household batteries are
usually trucked to a state, like Texas, where they are
buried, at a cost of up to six loonies per kilo just
for the burial privilege. And you thought that pet
cemeteries were ridiculous, eh? The co-op's members are
paying for this battery-burial privilege, along with
several other greater Vancouver municipalities, happily
subsidised, by happy taxpayers, like you. Now that we
know the cost, and where, our little alkaline batteries
end up, let's just hope Silbury School's students
succeed where we grown ups have miserably failed to act
more responsibly. The obscure magazine's article
pointed out, nearly a decade ago, how we could put an
end to climate change, reduce cancer, the arms race,
and stop the killing over oil. Basically, us grownups
had the knowledge for a decade or more, but had neither
the will, nor did we collectively take action. So,
today, we are starting to pay the price. And, there
will be an even higher price, tomorrow!

So, you're asking, just where are the great boots made
here? At Rino's, almost right across from Mountain
Equipment Coop, on Broadway in Vancouver. I got a great
pair of boots for just over a hundred bucks, too.

Rob Matthies

NOW, IF YOU WANT TO REALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS, CONSIDER ENROLLING YOUR KIDS AT THIS NORTH VANCOUVER SUSTAINABLE EDUCATION WORKSHOP SERIES

Kids' (ages 8-14) sustainable Future Tech workshops offered at Capilano College, Jan-Mar 2007

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The DSF website begs to differ.

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/Solutions/Sprawl.asp

Hey Stump:

Its about time, perhaps my e-mail to them last year tipped them to the fact that they were missing something in their approach!

I guarantee that is a recent addition to their website. Note also you did not respond with any WC2 stuff!

And now (old) news that 'we' are decimating fish stocks and ocean ecosystems!

I look forward to all the future hand wringing and head scratching when our consumptive and deluded ways pushes the planet's resilience past the tipping point.

Poor humans!

So much form my guarantee!

But further review reveals how limited the Suzuki Foundation's position is on human settlements.

It is these urban areas and the citizens that are placing the strain on hinterland ecosystems and peoples.

Not to wish anyone ill will, including the real setate speculators and profiteers, but it seems an earthquake is what is needed in order to re-design human settlements like Vancouver

I didn't bother to check WC2's website freebear. But in all fairness, it is the Western Canada WILDERNESS Committe, and despite the fact that all things are connected, they make it pretty plain right in their name which part of the problem they are attempting to address. They may not have an action plan on the issue (I have no idea either way), but I would hazard a guess they're not FOR suburban sprawl or unlimited growth of urban areas, wouldn't you?

"Its about time, perhaps my e-mail to them last year tipped them to the fact that they were missing something in their approach!"

'fraid not good buddy! :-)

First lines from a press release in the DSF urban planning section. Note the date.

-------------

News Releases

Stopping urban sprawl must be a priority for provincial governments
Oct 14, 2003

TORONTO – The ever-expanding sprawl of Canada’s cities must be one of the first issues addressed by all levels of government because it is seriously affecting the health of Canadians, says a new report from the David Suzuki Foundation.

Just heard most of an interview with George Monbiot on As it Happens.

He made, very quickly, several important points:

That individual consumer choices (the cars we buy/or not, etc etc) are inconsequential as ways of solving the environmental mess we're in.

That collective action, as citizens, is the only way to effect real change by forcing government to develop the kinds of clean alternatives (trains, transit, clean manufacturing, alternatives to petroleum) which can make a difference.

And, that flying, in high altitude jet planes is by far the worst thing humans do (in terms of transportation) to contribute to atmospheric CO2.

Further, in N America especially, there is a coterie of climate change deniers who plug phony science and create skeptics who are holding back the progress toward real change.
He puts climate change deniers on a par with evolution skeptics and flat earthers