I agree Ed; there are

I agree Ed; there are certain terms in which you describe our funny (and I don't mean ha ha either) economic system. I heard terms like Cowboy Capitalism, Voodo Economics, The Money Culture, Rogoue Economics. The basics of our system is to make money and how it's done the money boys don't give a rats ass how.

seth... #1

AFAIK, it's BC Hydro's only run-of-river micro-hydro generation asset, which was inherited when BC Hydro purchased the generation assets of East Kootenay Power during the 1960's.

And it makes for a comparable generation cost estimate in terms of MWh. And that Aberfeldie micro hydro generation asset already had infrastructure in- situ... transmission lines, wier, powerhouse, etc.

Ergo, the cost of BC Hydro's Aberfeldie reconstruction should have been lower than any new micro hydro start-up requiring these additional infrastructure costs.

But yet...

http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/info/pdf/bc_hydro_aberfeldie_application_for_cpcn.Par.0001.File.bc_hydro_aberfeldie_application_for_cpcn.pdf

Of course BC Hydro's cost of generation at $81 MWh for RoR Aberfeldie, after redevelopment, would be cheaper than a micro hydro start-up.

Again, BC Hydro already had the transmission lines already in place, the powerhouse was already in place, etc. Makes sense, n'est pas?

Pirate power? Ya still utilizing that silly epithet?

Where were you when BC Hydro provided IPP's with a list of 600 rivers for RoR micro-hydro development in the late 1990's under the NDP? Ya likely never blinked an eye, I'd wager.

That's when the NDP was less dogmatic and less ideological... IOW.. more pragmatic. Common sense also comes to mind. ;) But I get it... it was still under the NDP government. ;)

And if ya think that these micro hydro RoR's are gonna rake in the cash... think again... construction cost risk (BC Hydro experienced that big time with Aberfeldie), fall/winter monsoon rain risk, and spring freshet risk...

If those IPP micro hydro stations experience any of the foregoing risks, it doesn't matter what BC Hydro pays 'em... they won't have the power generation to get paid. Simple as that.

And BC Hydro/ BC Transmission are now looking at increasing their workforce in order to catch up with the infrastructure deficit.

From Vaughn Palmer:

BTW, you also a proponent for nuclear power in BC under BC Hydro, aren't ya? :D

seth... #2

Now Seth, as an ideological and dogmatic New Democrat, why don't you focus your energies on public (as opposed to "pirate") power regarding the Manitoba NDP and Manitoba Hydro? Doesn't the proverbial "buck stop there" (among the NDP brotherhood)?

Manitoba Hydro is now a big proponent of IPP power, esp. from much more expensive MWh wind energy. Fer instance, the 100 MW St. Leon IPP wind farm and the recently announced 300 MW St. Joseph IPP wind farm.

http://www.hydro.mb.ca/projects/st_joseph_wind_farm.shtml

And those IPP's are all owned by American multi-nationals.

Impress me and let me see you do some good work taking down the NDP's Manitoba Hydro IPP's. Now that's very expensive "pirate power". You might even make a name for yourself within the NDP! :D

Yeah, well....

I just watched an "expert" hired by the RCMP tell the Braidwood enquiry that Robert Dzeikansky was "moving towards" the police when he was shot with the Taser. Then two other experts refuted that evidence. The RCMP spent $80,000 on a trip to Poland to prove Dzeikanski was a drunk. More experts refuted that, too.

Successive expert studies have shown that the City of Victoria's 150 year-old practice of discharging raw sewage into the ocean has no effect on marine life. The most recent expert panel was commissioned to tell the CRD whether they needed a sewage treatment plant or not and they failed to answer the question. In 1993, three medical conventions planned for Victoria were cancelled at the last minute because the organisers were told by someone in Washington State that the city had no sewage treatment plant. They still don't.

What is the connection to run-of-the-river hydro? It is that in this province, I would not expect an honest answer from any of our politicians on anything, including yesterday's weather. The facts on any issue are obscured by interest groups to the point where 50% of the electorate does not even bother to vote.

Our cops are crooked, incompetent and cowardly; worse, they are murderers and accessories to murder. Our politicians are even worse. Drunk on their own cocktail of booze and speed, they are not even worthy of contempt. Voting from the rooftops looks more attractive every day. Low-calibre cops and politicians deserve high-calibre treatment.

Run-of-the-river hydro will be yet another average disaster, brought on by incompetent managers. The rivers will run dry as excessive amounts of water are bled from them and no one will even know. The businesses that build them will fold and the rivers will be left with great big holes in them. Our tourism trade will continue to decline as the world realises that BC is an empty promise.

Fish-counter

You had me thinking "Sock it to 'em, fella", as I read through your post.

Then I read your last paragraph.

Oh well......

Humour

Why Lukey who knew you were such a jockster.

You keep lobbing softballs like that at me people gonna think we are related.

We are not discussing microhydro here - 3000 gigawatts annual from the pirate project at Bute is hardly Microhydro.

Nothing silly about pirates Lukey my Skywalking friend - they live to steal. Why when you picked your nom de plume weren't you dreaming of fighting space pirates somewhere!!!

Apparently, you are a challenged person when it comes to reading. Aberfeldie is not the ideal process to be used. If Hydro were allowed to replace Plutonic, they would contract it out to any of the myriad of companies that like to build things worldwide. The best bid would be accepted and work would begin. That is how almost all contracts were done in BC until you Neocons showed up. Construction risks were assumed by the bidder. That is exactly what Plutonic has done. If you have a problem with that reread it. Perhaps a remedial reading teacher could help you with comprehension?

The NDP signed a few small really microhydro contracts generating about 1% of the total power calls issued to date. Those contracts were signed at very favorable rates, much better than your fascist friends have been signing. Will McMartin's report showed the NDP to be much better financial managers and businessmen than you Neocons.

At 12 cents a kwh, can't find anybody who thinks there is much risk at all. Certainly thats not what GE thought when it a put few billion into Plutonic. I imagine down on Wall Street they are laughing themselves silly over the Gordo and his gang of Rubes giving away the farm.

Once again your reading skills sadly are causing you difficultly. The Manitoba Hydro link you posted says the wind developer is Australian not American and that they are negotiating. That doesn't sound to me like being a big proponent. If you had any knowledge at all about power generation you would understand that wind power has almost no value because it is so variable. It requires lots of land and produces enormous amounts or greenhouse gases with all the concrete, steel, and gas leveling plants necessary to build and operate these ridiculous facilities.

You have a problem with nuclear? Thats how your spaceship is powered!!!. Seems Alberta is proposing nuclear as the only green solution available as is Saskatchewan. Westinghouse is just beginning construction of four gigawatt class generation 3.5 nukes that it sold for China for $5 billion. Had BCHydro bought the plants instead of China they could have been located on the Burrard thermal site, generating almost 40000 gigawatthours annually of prime baseload power with no emissions whatsoever at 2 cents a kwh, no transmission costs, and no destroyed or flooded rivers and land. Compare that to Plutonic's Bute which will cost taxpayers $16 billion generating 3000 gigawatts hour of power of unreliable early summer power and ruining up to 45,000 hectares of land.

Luke

Just curious about:

"Quote:

Hydro has embarked on a greatly expanded three-year capital plan, which calls for combined spending of $5.3 billion over this year and the next two."

How much of that $5.3 billion involves PPPs ?

Another Comedian...

seth:

From a cost comparison perspective in terms of micro-hydro generation, it's the ONLY recent comparable that can be used.

Capital cost creep just ain't part of your parlance, is it? :D

Alright, everyone learns somethin' new every day. Case in point, BC Hydro's Aberfeldie micro hydro redevelopment and estimated costs:

October, 2004: $46 million
February, 2006: $65 million
December, 2006: $95 million

http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/info/pdf/bc_hydro_aberfeldie_application_for_cpcn.Par.0001.File.bc_hydro_aberfeldie_application_for_cpcn.pdf

A doubling of estimated costs within a short time span. Seth, you'd make a good financial analyst. NOT. :D

And 10 years ago, under the NDP, BC Hydro already had plans to increase that proportion to 10%. And in 1999, BC Hydro was already paying $5.69/kWh to IPP's. Expensive stuff.

http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/info/pdf/bc_hydro_aberfeldie_application_for_cpcn.Par.0001.File.bc_hydro_aberfeldie_application_for_cpcn.pdf

Are you for REAL????

Australian/American ... Babcock and Brown/Enbridge... 400 MW is equivalent to roughly 1,800 MW here in BC on a per capita basis.

Negotiating? Why don't you use the same argument about BC Hydro and its selected IPP's. They also negotiate prior to entering into a power generation purchase agreement. That's how the real world works. :)

And if you had any knowledge about the different sources of green power, you would know that wind power IPP purchases are some of the most expensive around ... a helluva lot more expensive than micro hydro.

.

How far left-wing are you? Certainly only representative of 5% of BC's population at the most! ;)

ME2:

The total figure relates to capital expenditure by BC Hydro relating to its own assets. Nothin' to do with IPP's.

Fish-Counter

"Our cops are crooked, incompetent and cowardly; worse, they are murderers and accessories to murder."

I suggest you don't call the police the next time you need help.

Lukey, lukey lukey

No wonder Gwest and others have stopped responding to your quips.

I would be as frustrated as they but I understand that you are challenged and as such are an object of pity not disdain.

“'s the ONLY recent comparable that can be used”

When you've finished your remedial reading course your teacher will walk you through the meaning of the words asked, answered and irrelevant.

“Capital cost creep just ain't part of your parlanc”

Not on a signed contract no. I've had to sit and listen to vendors complaining about the money they lost on a contract. And I was sympathetic, it was tough, but a contract is a contract.

“ aying $5.69/kWh to IPP's. Expensive stuff.”
Seems pretty good now though eh. A lot less than Enron was charging at the time. You are right.Glen Clark was sure a great financial manager compared to the Gordo.

“ Hydro already had plans to increase that proportion to 10%”
At that price no wonder given what PowerEx was getting for sales to California. Good work Glen!!!

“Are you for REAL???? Australian/American ... Babcock and Brown/Enbridge... 400 MW is equivalent to roughly 1,800 MW here in BC on a per capita basis.“

You are overwrought my friend. You need to take to your bed. Manitoba Hydros capacity is 37000 gwhrs while BC Hydros is 50000. The proposed 300 Mw might provide as much as 800 gwhr of worthless sometimes available power. Meanwhile Manitoba Hydro is working on 2600 gwh of new high value baseload hydro development unlike BC Hydro. Negotiations just began on the wind project and I doubt they will conclude well. So it appears my friend that Manitoba Hydro is in the IPP business with for a tiny fraction of its proposed capacity much like Glen Clark. You really need to work on those reading skills

“ any knowledge about the different sources of green power, you would know that wind power IPP purchases are some of the most expensive around ... a helluva lot more expensive than micro hydro”

Yes indeed my challenged star voyager. Thats why nobody is buying any.

“How far left-wing are you? Certainly only representative of 5% of BC's population at the most!”

Why Lukey I was quoted that Left wing communist FDR for you

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group,” Sure seems to fit Gordo and his gang does it not.

"How about Rafe, or anybody

"How about Rafe, or anybody writing on this blog getting up enough courage to research and challenge the crap that's accepted and forced on the world as "economics"?"

Doesn't look like it'll happen here, Ed. I've been asking the Tyee and Mair, Dobbin, Beers et al for years to do an expose on the banking system. Not a peep.

The banking system loans our money supply into existence, creating the principal only and making no provision for the payment of interest. This is not a conspiracy theory, it is a fact, conspiracy or not. This is the root to hack at. This is what drives the growth imperative that is destroying ecosystems, this is the debt slavery that defines the human condition.

You have to admit that

You have to admit that "creating" money from the air, using the infrastructure to be taken over for nothing, as collaterals, then charging interest on nothing, to be paid out from the value of the stolen property is a damn good racket.

Legal and enforced by governments, who call it "investment". Especially "wealth creating foreign investment", that brings in nothing, but steals countries blind by pushing them into perennial debt.

The biggest crime wave in history, signed, sealed and enforced.

Ed Deak.

quotables RE: BC Liberal policies

As I told you when you visited the Interior during your speaking tour, Rafe, "You are (and will always remain) one of my heros."

I put the following quotes on another thread, Rafe, but I thought that you may be able to use one or two of these when you speak and write while trying to save BC:

On BC's rivers and resources, and Campbell's plundering of said:

"Thinking to get at once all the gold the goose could give, he killed it, and opened it only to find - nothing." - Aesop

On Liberal Directorships in "energy" and "power" corporations that now able able to freely take and abuse resources that once belonged to all people and all of nature in BC:

"A gold rush is what happens when a line of Chorus girls spot a man with a bank roll." - Mae West (Klondike Annie, 1936)

On the BC Liberal's policies and decisions that create huge increases in "wealth" for BC's and the USA's already wealthy and connected while at the same time increasing homelessness, child poverty, and addictions in the BC population as a whole - destroying our salmon-based ecosystems-economy-heritage in the process:

"Increase in material conforts, it may be generally laid down, does not in any way whatsoever conduce to moral growth." - Mahatma Gandhi

Peace and sharing be with you, Rafe.

Fish stocks, people and Gov

I find that many electorate in BC have a loser mentality. By that it says people in BC are so laid back that we can lose all our freedoms, natural resources, not vote(47%)our economy and not really care. It was obvious in the last election.
I was at save the pacific salmon rally and met Rafe and Alexa. These people are trying to educate us on not losing what we have. Why is it falling on deaf ears.
Wake up people of BC before it is too too late and all is gone by the liberal Gov you voted in, not me.

Fiat lux and Cynic are on the right track

They are right to question the banking system as the myth and obfuscation that surrounds how we exchange value transactions is at the core of what ails the world these days.

If you have not educated yourself sufficiently to know that the Bank of Canada is indeed a Crown Corporation but is not part of the Government of Canada then you have no idea is to the ramifications of "tens of billions of dollars being printed to stimulate the economy". If you do not know that the US "Fed" is a private corporation, then you do not understand who will or will not benefit from monetary policy.

The same relative ignorance of our very own banking system is at play with our understanding of "the commons", "crown land", "public-private partnerships", "international obligations" etc etc.

The greatest irony is that the same people who brought you the "banking system" are the same people who bring you the PPPs and "second tier medicine" and "lets toll something we paid for already" and the like.

Ignore the SPP and the Bilderberger meetings at your own peril folks. For two reasons actually. One, they really don't know what they are doing as most of them either inherited their money or never actually started a successful enterprise. Second, because they are not working for you folks.

And they couldn't give a rat's behind for the salmon.

No respect for anyone, or anything

"There are many environmentally concerned citizens and organizations that do not allow flaws and weakness in the NDP platform to eclipse the view of what the Liberals have done and will do if re-elected," wrote Valhalla Wilderness spokeswoman Anne Sherrod. "Many of us are aghast that newspapers as far away as the New York Times have been falsely led to believe that the Liberals are the environmental progressives and the NDP are anti-environment in this campaign."
http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=78e577ff-5129-4c1d-b97a-5a614fbfddef
"I am disgusted with the environmentalism in B.C. There is no respect for anyone, least of all your peers. You seem to have no idea of what Gordon Campbell is bringing down on us, irreversible wild salmon extinction."

Blackie

I do believe what people are saying is they feel ripped of because of the media's spin doctrine not allowing democracy to work at its finest. You know where the evening news is about how the NDP can't run the province. Well no kidding its what happens when the Liberals have a majority. And I do believe that Canwest Media is once again is controlling the message. And we know how that story goes.... as Canwest news and broadcasters take their spin as its the NDP Baaa Baaaa dah for the province and boy the money is Goooo Goooo dah with the Liberals. And this they call news. It goes beyond a conspiracy it is to blatant for that as its big power and immense greed that wants us to get the message. And what do you do with that? Don't buy the paper and forget Canwest news because like its trash already. And with that door closing a new one will open. And look at it like its a helping hand out to a struggling media giant as readers put them out of our misery.

Reallife

"Our cops are crooked, incompetent and cowardly; worse, they are murderers and accessories to murder."

I suggest you don't call the police the next time you need help.

Thanks for the tip. My vehicle has been broken into six times in the last five years and I have lost about $5,000.00 of scientific equipment. The cops can't track it. No problem.

What frosts my ass is the idea that they spent $80,000.00 on a trip to Poland trying to prove Robert Dzeikanski was a drunk. Two of them beat the tar out of a newspaper delivery man a short while ago. They failed to prosecute in the sinking of the Queen of the North and the bombing of Air India Flight 182. Considering that our RCMP have murdered an innocent, mentally challenged, would-be immigrant, I don't want to ever see a cop again. They scare the crap out of me. They are all tainted until Kwesi Millington is behind bars and his three buddies fired with no severance pay.

We need our own provincial police force, like Ontario and Quebec. It would not solve all our problems, but we would have some control over them. I think about Mr. Dzeikanski's mother, and the reaction of every Pole in Poland. Canada's name is contaminated dirt over there, and will be until justice is done. Murder-by-cop is still murder. There is no other way to call it. Thank God Wally Oppal was just arse-kicked out of office! It is about time.

Fish-counter

Boy that felt good! Just what you said and how you said it. I don't understand why there isn't a provincial force it defies logic or maybe not. I mean the first thing Coleman did was strip the Ministry of Public Services of many of its services as he informs Campbell. And I'm certain Martin found far more pressing things for the RCMP than keep its eye on government especially since he was kinda involved. And the police just got to be into a provincial force as they are such control freaks to begin with. And understandabily so but there are limits just like there are laws. And I think we have a wonderful system as have heard there is none better when it not being tampered with. Its the one I grew up with and have grown to respect and admire. Thats were my heart is and its called home where the individuials rights and freedoms are respected while maintaining their dignity. A thing of the past it shouldn't be as the RCMP extended their deepest regrets for the unfortunate death and are looking into investing into their men and women. Along with going back to measures such as time and talk instead of down on the count of 5.

seth...

Now that's one helluva an argument!

Are you gwest in drag??? REALLY! :D

Bingo!

You just collected another 'offensive' comment citation luke.

Well done.

Contempt for the cops is a dangerous thing.

I will be 60 in about one month, and my confidence in Canada's law enforcement agencies have never been lower. Kwesi Millington should suffer the same fate as his victim; death by Taser. End of story. Instead he, and his three colleagues are still on the RCMP payroll and still defending their actions. THAT is a crime.

Back to the fish; with corrupt and deceitful politicians and police, what chance do the fish stand? None whatsoever.

If our police stopped giving out seat belt tickets and arrested some of the gang members in Vancouver, that would be a hell of a start. Instead we have 219 deaths and 40 shootings. In my book that is a crime wave.

Wally Oppal is denying the results of the election recount as if it were an option to disregard the voters. His arrogance is unacceptable in a democracy, yet he is just one member of a corrupt party.

Checkmate g west...

You far left-wing dudes are one helluva sensitive bunch! [when ya aren't knockin' others] :D

Why is that???? I wanna know!??!! :D

Bingo again.

You just collected another one - if you have to ask it means you just don't get it luke - and I'm not interested in educating you.

As Seth implies, it just isn't worth it to respond to someone who's little more than a casual amusement at best and a kind of virtual pothole at worst.

g west...

Never forget... I'm here to educate you... Once your mind comes to a balance of reason and common sense. But it certainly ain't there YET!!! ;)

Bingo again

No you're not.

You're simply a pain in the ass.

My typo

Only 19 people were killed in the 40 shootings this year, not 219 as written.
Is this Vancouver 2009 or Capone's Chicago?

My typo

Only 19 people were killed in the 40 shootings this year, not 219 as written.
Is this Vancouver 2009 or Capone's Chicago?

F-C, do you know any police officers?

There are three policemen living in my neighbourhood and they all are exceptional human beings. They work hard every day to protect us from theives, thugs and other assorted hazards to our well-being (including traffic law violators). While doing their jobs, they are physically and verbally assaulted and always second-guessed by armchair quarterbacks with excellent hindsight.

"Kwesi Millington should suffer the same fate as his victim; death by Taser" is simply out of line. At the time of the Vancouver Airport incident, the potential for tasers to be lethal was little understood - remember that many police officers were tasered when they were learning to use the weapon. Did this particular officer make a mistake? In hindsight, certainly. Does this make him a criminal who should be put to death? Only the most sanctimonious (or racist?) person would beleive this.

This is simply and factually untrue

There was all kinds of evidence which predated the Dziekanski incident about the potential lethality of multiple applications of directed energy weapons. Kindly look for the several reports - interim and final - which have been published prior to the YVR cock up.

There is also a good deal of anecdotal evidence - much of it backed up since - that RCMP teams selected for airport duty are notorious slugs and ne’er do wells who are shunted into a position there (or at other airports) in order to get rid of them...in other words the police equivalent of sending them to 'Newcastle'.

In fact, in testimony before the Braidwood commission, it's absolutely undeniable that this is the case here.

Obviously fishcounter is speaking hyperbolically and ironically - but anyone who is not outraged at the neglect and dereliction of duty of the RCMP would have to be blind, deaf and dumb....

At the very least the officers involved in Mr Dziekanski's murder are chargeable for a prima facie case of criminal negligence and the prosecution team that decided not to charge them is equally negligent.

Oh, and for your information

I know a good number of current and former RCMP officers.

I can assure you that, to a man, they would agree with my observations above here unconditionally.

In fact, several of the retired officers are now so ashamed of their former employment that they go out of their way to NOT mention it in public.

Lest it be thought that this is only a problem in the RCMP, I'd suggest you need to look a little more closely at the record of both the Vancouver and the Victoria forces.

And watch the papers - there's more to come.

Are we talkin' fish or cops here?

Just got this in an email:
Our letter asking government that the Fisheries Act, which is the law in Canada be applied to protect our salmon from fish farms has been signed by 14,000 people to date at www.adopt-a-fry.org has still not been answered

Speakin' of Cops

Long ago in a far away place (Armstrong, B.C.) I was a child.
The one local RCMP Officer met me (and I him!) on the pokey little street. For some occassion he was dressed in the Scarlet.
He actually looked at me and spoke to me. No recollection of what he said but I sure wanted to grow up to be like him.
Since then I have worked in places where the local police have no respect - You do NOT want to go there!
I want the wild salmon and the boys who "Maintains le Droit" RCMP/GRC to find their
way home

Doggone

I believe we are actually speaking about finding our way home...thanks for that.

cops and fish

Begging your indulgence for just one more moment doggone, I'd like to lay out another small piece of evidence for my good friend reallife - someone whose commitment to looking objectively at the record of the RCMP in this province clearly needs a re-boot.

Just a small thing - another needlessly wasted life. Another hopelessly compromised example of the coppers investigating themselves:
http://tinyurl.com/l8s6yk
There is one lesson to be gained here though.

If you happen to be walking along the street of a fine summer evening alone, say in Vancouver, Victoria, Surrey or any other of our fine cities and towns and you come across 6 uniformed 'officers of the law' tuning up a 'suspect' on the sidewalk; don't take it in your head to make a comment of the sort:

'Think you boys can handle that fellow? Would you like a hand?'

Just cross circumspectly to the other side of the street and wend your merry way back home.

Irony doesn't work on thugs!

Now, back to the fish

back to the fish...

irony doesn't work on the salmon, either.