- Ms Kaye is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Mary Carlisle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Prem Gill is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nancy Flight is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Justin Everett is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- John Westover is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Nora Etches is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Edward Henderson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Bharadwaj Chandramouli is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Dean Chatterson is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Marius Scurtescu is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Robert Parkes is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- James Murton is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Susan Doyle is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Vincent Strgar is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Helen Spiegelman is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Subir Guin is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Kimball Finigan is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- Joanne Manley is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
- David Leach is a Tyee Builder. You can be, too.
Give Us the Gold in Whining
Canada's athletes inspire. Too bad our politicians and media lack mettle.
Simon Whitfield's inspiring return nabs silver.
Sport builds character? Explain the Olympic whine.
In fact, just be grateful there are no medals for whining because Canada would come up gold.
That crossed my mind as I listened to couch potatoes bemoaning the Olympic medal "drought" during the first week of the games. Don't get me started on the irony of their lament being led by the lard-butted press corps.
Even my esteemed colleague Steve Burgess got off a few good zingers, while a guest host on CBC's Sounds Like Canada. But his jokes about the shame he felt when Togo took a medal while Canada didn't only reminded me that despite his long, lanky frame, Steve's favourite sport is hoisting coffee cups.
Prime Minister Harper got into the act, registering his disappointment. Ironic, given his reluctance to put his money where his mouth is. Usually governments like Harper's (with oppressive, totalitarian social values) compensate by pumping money into athletics, if only to prove the superiority of their kind. Just consider the Nazis. Or the Soviets. Or China, while we're on the subject. If Harper insists on that anti-abortion stance, the least he can do is put more money into sports coffers.
Gordon Campbell was also disappointed by the lack of honours, but at least he recognized that China's medal collecting was connected to its well-funded programs.
"These results are going to move their country forward, and we have to learn how better to provide support for our athletes," the premier told The Globe and Mail. "We have to have a good, hard look at how we fund our athletes, our coaches, our nutritionists.... Let's get on with doing something. It's critical."
As critical as a 29 per cent raise for MLAs?
Alas, he's a day late and a dollar short -- did I hear anything beyond a promise to "take a hard look?" It takes roughly a generation to build a program that will reliably put athletes on the international podium. If we start now, we should see results by 2026.
Throw another dollar on the barbells
Australia, by contrast, did something about its lack of medals in the 1976 Montreal Olympics. The country has a population of about 21 million, and Canadian Press reports that they spend about $250 million on sport. They'll sweeten that pot by another $200 million, in order to remain competitive in the summer sports at which Australians excel. Their team of 433 members collected 20 medals in the first week, and is expected to double that by the end of the games. By contrast, Canada spent about $166 million to fund both winter and summer sports over 2008-'09, and sent a team of 331 to Beijing.
With limited funding, Canada simply doesn't field competitors in all disciplines. The first week of Beijing had only three events in which Canada had serious contenders. Limited cash, stretched thin, and supplemented by the athletes' own pockets is Canada's proud Olympic tradition.
Yet the one thing I didn't hear amidst the bitching about gilt-free athletes was taxpayers complaining about the lack of athletic support. Apparently, too few of our citizens are jocks, and they don't get that athletes are not obligated, financially or otherwise, to sacrifice themselves to cover the boob tubers in glory.
Much bang for the buck
As it is, Canadians got to do plenty of flag-waving at bargain-basement prices. By day 12, there were 13 medals (more than in Athens), yet there were still mutterings about the athletes' "failures."
Seems to me they're punching well above their funding. Fencer Sherraine Schalm trains with her competition in Europe because Canada can't fund the calibre of coach she needs, yet she's fifth in the world and was the 2006 world-cup winner. She was knocked out in her first bout by a lower-ranked opponent -- yes, this happens in combat sports -- and suddenly people who don't know a foil from an epee are demanding to know why she isn't making the hometown tightwads feel good about themselves?
Incidentally, was I the only one who wanted to see her use her sword on CBC's Scott Russell, who demanded she explain why she made an early exit from the Olympics "once again"? TV reporters aren't known for their smarts, but I'd say that bit of hair-and-teeth is lucky he still has his.
Knowing the state is stingy when it comes to funding culture, I was astounded at how often Canadians had top-10 showings. Shot-putter Dylan Armstrong, for example, threw a personal best of 2.04 metres, beat the Canadian record, and found himself out of the medals by less than a centimetre. His disappointment must have been overwhelming, but I felt nothing but admiration for the guy who did better than his best.
Grunt and bear it
I can only imagine the whingefest that will accompany Vancouver's Olympics in 2010 if Canadians don't hear the national anthem (to which most of us don't know the words) played often enough. And they won't. Despite repeated studies about the economic value of both sport and the arts, Canadians have always been reluctant to fund anyone else's "fun."
Speaking of fun: anyone up for sculling before dawn in January on the West Coast? Don't let Victoria's balmy temperatures fool you -- the damp has a way of burrowing into your joints that makes it a much nastier cold than a -10 day in central Canada.
How about doing laps for stamina before anyone else is out of bed: in the pool, on the rink or on a track? A huge amount of training is tedium -- just relentless grunt work to build strength.
In any sport, you can expect to work 35 to 40 hours a week in a job that automatically comes with pain. Ever wonder why athletes (or dancers, for that matter) work until they snap ligaments and tear muscles? It's because aching is a normal part of training, so it isn't always easy to distinguish the good pain from the bad pain.
Most elite athletes toil with no glory and little chance of a payoff. Endorsements go to the glamour sports like swimming and sprinting. There are no million-dollar salaries in a national league for the power pixies who fly between uneven bars. As for javelin throwers, fencers and power lifters -- what were they thinking?
Obviously they're far less calculating than the reporters, politicians and lazy, healthcare-sucking citizens who insulted and demoralized them, while showing a stunning disregard for the facts. Amateur athletes labour at superhuman levels, at their own expense, while everyone else attached to the Olympics makes fat profits.
A modest proposal
As I write this, Canada has 15 medals and counting, but I've yet to hear a much-deserved apology to Team Canada and every other athlete in training for the next Olympics. Then again, talk's cheap too.
So I have a better idea.
Every reporter whose copy included the phrase "disappointing showing," every editor who ran it, and every politician in every government that concurred can do penance. They can spend a year living like athletes in training.
They may not be good at it, but there's nothing to stop them paddling at dawn, cycling, running, hitting the gym for at least five hours a day -- preferably with someone barking at them to work harder. They can fit it in around the job that earns their income, just the way athletes do.
Apparently, they're in desperate need of some of the character that sport has long been lauded for building. Really, it would be doing them a favour: while trimming their lardy butts, it might also sharpen their lardy brains.
Related Tyee stories:
- Vancouver Drops Olympics Housing Pledge
Promise was 'non-binding' NPA votes. - Our Olympics, Outsourced
It's a global gold rush, and VANOC doesn't give B.C. firms any advantage. - Is Anybody Watching?
The Olympics seem to have lost the race... to reality TV.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- BC snuffs out AirCare test program
- AFN national chief Shawn Atleo to launch re-election bid
- Citizens group releases video to fight undead Bill C-30
- Conservative MP says he might vote against budget, then 'clarifies' his position
- Genetically modified plants won't take root with councillors in Richmond, BC
- Hundreds at Vancouver rally to support Quebec students
- Could Fort Mac become an eco-tourist hotspot?
- Rick Hansen's Man in Motion anniversary tour concludes in Vancouver
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Who Mowed Down the Premier?
- Canada's Economy, Deconstructed (by a 12 year-old)
- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Death In Remand: 'A Gut Feeling'
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Alberta Fills Pipes with Corrosive Denial
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- How Our Immune Systems Exaggerate Fear
- BC biotech company seeks approval for GM apple
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Should You Run from that Medical Test?
- 'The Dictator'
- Death in Remand: Stacked Deck
- 'Moonrise Kingdom'
- From Financial Advisor to Occupier
- Seven Goals to Build the Conservative 'Dream'
- Double lung recipient dances on Ellen show
- ISS astronauts grab DragonX space capsule by the tail with Canada Arm
- Metro Vancouver gas prices peak at record levels
- Ottawa posts $9-billion deficit in March despite pledge to avoid spending spree
- BC phases out AirCare to focus on fighting bigger vehicle emissions
- Tsunami senors to be dropped into deep sea off of Vancouver Island
- Student groups file court challenge against Quebec protest law
- ...while on the streets, pirates and ninjas put aside mutual animosity to join student protests
130
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G West
3 years ago
Who cares?
I think all that really needs to be said about the OLYMPICS was contained in Jacques Rogge's pathetic statement about Usain Bolt's lack of 'respect' for his opponents because of his celebrations after his stunning and other-worldly performances in the 100 and 200 metres on the track.
The whole business is a farce, turned into a 2 week mugup for every stupid politician and clueless media vamp in the world. Rogge and the lords of the rings can't have it both ways - it's either about money for them and their friends or it's about real athletic achievement.
As for character - it has very little to do with it - as our CEO premier proves every time he opens his mouth.
I'd much rather you'd write a column about how the Chinese promise to permit 'approved' protest demonstrations during the Olympics has, so far, nor approved a single demonstration.
If you want a real Olympics hold the damn thing in Greece permanently, select a country or two each four years to manage the thing and upgrade facilities, send all the stupid commercial interests out to pasture and then we'll talk about sport. In the meantime – let’s not pretend – these are very well paid professional athletes – expecting some kind of results from them is hardly unjustified.
That being said, I’m perfectly happy with Canada’s performance.
Canada is no worse, and no better than the rest of them - they're all pathetic.
Gary
3 years ago
Olympic Athlete Funding
Quite a few years ago the governments in this country set up a lottery. That lottery was 6/49. I remember quite distinctly hearing that it was set up specifically to benefit Amature Sport.
So can anyone tell me why parents and relatives have to financially support our amature athletes when the 6/49 payout on winnings is in the 30 millions. Surely that is only a fraction of the gross revenue. Are the governments using this money for other things?
Jeffrey J.
3 years ago
Refreshing Commentary
Way to go Shannon Rupp! As always, one can immediately distinguish critical commentary from corporate spin and "towing the line". First, it is only in places like the Tyee where citizens can read something honest about the Olympics "industry". Secondly, the pundits, reporters and politicians are playing a well defined role as they sit back and 'critique' Canadian athletes as if they know what they're talking about. The arrogance of these pundits is only exceeded by their hypocrisy, as Shannon points out.
But as everyone in the "know" knows, the Olympics has never been about our athletes. Its about real estate and money. As UBC Prof. Chris Shaw explains in his brilliant 2008 book Five Ring Circus, which was followed by a DVD by the same name (http://www.thefiveringcircus.com/).
The Special Olympics are an example of how athletes can compete without the interference of corporate spin. One day we can only hope we will see the same occur for the rest of the world's athletes.
Great article.
Hughes
3 years ago
Olympians
Well said ShannonRupp!
Having competed internationally in a sport that receives little recognition outside of its fraternity and almost entirely financed on my own dime, I have nothing but the highest respect and admiration for most of our Olympic athletes – yes, I still differentiate between the truly amateur (sans loaded trust fund) and the highly paid professional athlete despite the IOC’s decision to amend its charter in 1986 making way for professionals to participate in the Games of the XXIV Olympiad in Seoul, South Korea in 1988 – who toil and train in obscurity, day in and day out while holding down a job in order to pay the bills.
If only those politicians, talking heads and couch potatoes who bemoan non-medalling performances or jump on the bandwagon every couple of years for a fleeting moment when an athlete reaches the podium, possessed a fraction of the commitment, character and determination of our Olympians, what a better world we would live in.
sanamark
3 years ago
Sorry But....
China is a totalitarian dictatorship. Children are chosen in kindergarten and then intensively trained to attain gold medals. They do not live with their parents.
China does not have a publicly funded education system. All parents pay to send their children to school. However, if you give your child to the state to raise in the name of Olympic gold, all expenses are paid. Nor does China have a publicly funded medical system. As a parent, I would not give my child to the state to train for Olympic trinkets.
Is sport really that important? I for one would prefer that our tax dollars be spent on things like better schools and health care for all of us than for "elite athletes" who really don't contribute anything to society as a whole.
Steve Burgess
3 years ago
A formal complaint
I would like to complain about Shannon's vicious attack on my routine. But perhaps that would be falling into her little trap.
macsasquatch
3 years ago
Olympics and sport...
I've watched quite a bit of the Olympics on tv. I know in my head that the bigshots use it for economic and political gain. I know there are likely a lot of 'enhancers' in use, that the real money is behind using them successfully than by ferreting out the users. I know that the gold medal payoff is big endorsement money for winners.
But..every time, the athletes seem to do things that just break through all that stuff. I liked the Italian 50 K walker coming into the stadium yesterday, and the smiles and waves from the second and third place finishers. I like the tough young sprinter from PEI. I like the bmx kid from Airdrie...there's a sport that blasts a fresh feel to the games.
For sport, tho, I figure that sport is not really work, no matter what the coaches yell at the athletes. Sport is play. Even the training is play and it is a privilege to be able to play at these various activities.
So when public money goes to sport, I like to see it go to local participation encouragement. I definitely don't like it going to sending people on annual junkets to Europe or even the states.
A few decades ago we (public) put $300 million or so into a stadium in Van. I figure that such a stadium enables outsiders to come and drain off sport and entertainment dollars from Vancouver. Most sports and entertainment in that stade is by outsiders. At the time I pondered, well, what if we used the $300 million to build 300 local sport facilities around the province..would not that do more for our people's health and fitness than having a stadium where our people pay to sit and watch outsiders play some sport?
I even enjoyed the first week, even tho we had no medals. Maybe it's because I actually buy the olympic slogan.
(Will we be having a column soon on Christmas being too commercial?)
macsasquatch
3 years ago
And another thing...
...just want to add, for people who want to hear the Canadian national anthem on the Olympics broadcasts, just catch the Bombardier commercials.
freebear
3 years ago
And the winner is
Besides the corporate race to profit the most!
Sport is indeed play, and great for you if they also call it a job and you can earn a living doing so.
But the emphasis on medals is ridiculous.
Remember, in order to have first, second, and third place finishers in a competition, you need the fourth, fifth, sixth and so on place finishers!
There is nothing wrong with , and a lot to be proud of placing fourth (of fifth or 16th)in a world competition!
Of course if its infamy your seeking, and first place is your goal, hopefully you still compete fairly-no performance enhancing drugs.
Of course, I wonder if Mr. Bolt had any pharmaceutical assistance in breaking to world records - I hope not!
Glen Murtz
3 years ago
Here's some ideas for people
Here's some ideas for people who whine about a lack of medals for a country who's cultural identity comes from ugly, stylized, stolen First Nations symbols.
Shut up. Grow up.
But hey, now it looks like Harper's playing to the torch carrying crowd. Now if only he can find a Riefenstahl for his own "Rally Round the Rings"....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080822.wcuts22/BNStory/Entertainment/home
My god, I hate the governments people vite for...
lynn
3 years ago
A cuppa Olympic medals
Don't worry, Steve....it's obvious Ms. Rupp needs to wake up and smell the coffee... as the way things are going... beach volleyball and all... I'm sure one day "hoisting coffee cups" will be considered an Olympic sport. ;-)
I'm in training right now.
See you on the Canadian team. ;-)
Frank
3 years ago
Olympics for Campbell
I wish he was as worried about child poverty, homelessness, health-care, senior's care, corruption in his gov't (BC Rail) and people who work full-time in low-wage jobs yet are still mired in poverty.
Nope, for Captain Gord what's "critical" is winning medals while he hob-knobs at the Canada pavillion. Is it any wonder the Right loves this guy?
sanamark
3 years ago
Olympics?
I believe the original idea for the Olympic bid was floated by the Clark government. Whomever had the idea, bread and circuses for all!
blujaycan
3 years ago
for the glory of sport
You go girl, Shannon.
Take a deep breath Steve, and have a cup of coffee.
Meanwhile, I agree with having the conglomerates out of the activities and subsidizing, promoting and whatever destructive attitudes are required to pursue ones goals. No need to feel pity totally for the athletes, they get their rewards, but the percentages are what? It's almost like winning in a lottery. Recognition for dedication and following ones goal is definitely show of respect for an individual. Nationalism should be put aside, and politicians and story tellers should not be able to comment, period. Go to Athens for each Olympic game is an excellent idea!!!!!!!! I strongly agree and applaude to that wisdom.
For the dollar signs and opportunists, shut up, and spend your own money only to support such events. Privatize it if you like, let's see if the IOC will go for that.
And RIP.
Fii
3 years ago
Feeling overly proud because
Feeling overly proud because someone who happens to have been born in the same country as you.... and um, that's about it... has won a medal is a bit pathetic. I can feel just as proud of the Chinese woman who kicked ass at whatever-sport... wrestling say, simply because she's a strong woman. Or the elderly man from whatever-country because he's so much fitter than most people his age. To sit in front of your tv and pat yourself on the back because "MY COUNTRY" has XX amount of medals is ridiculous. So?? If the US ends up with 5 times the amount of medals as Canada (and it may :), does that mean the average US citizen is stronger and fitter than ME? Pffft.
But I guess that is what's meant by "vicarious living"....
realisticman
3 years ago
OK you can have the Gold, Shannon
Truly, the gold in weird ranting.
What is that stance Shannon? Are you angry because Henry Morgentaler was recently awarded the Order of Canada during Harper's term? Do you think the debate should be reopened even though Harper has said it's closed?
Is Canada totalitarian like, say, China? Do you have an escape strategy, Shannon, for when they come knocking on the door?
G West
3 years ago
Perhaps you're unaware of this
CALGARY, Aug. 17 /CNW/ - Canada Family Action Coalition felt obligated to the more than one million Canadians who joined in the complaint to the Canadian Judicial Council to respond to the comments made on Saturday by Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin.
"In her response about the complaint to the Canadian Judicial Council, Justice McLachlin addressed an issue that was not even alleged in the complaint. And she failed to provide any answers to the significant allegations about violations to the constitution of the Order of Canada," said
Brian Rushfeldt, Executive Director, Canada Family Action Coalition. "Judge McLachlin is deflecting the issue. Judge Scott must now assess the deflection
of McLachlin's response as well as the substance of the complaint. This is exactly why we MUST have a full investigation of the McLachlin's conduct and the deliberations of the Advisory Council. Canadians deserve honesty and openness."
Anyone who thinks that, given a majority, Pee Wee will not introduce legislation to limit access to abortion hasn't been paying attention to this government's actions on a whole range of things - including, but not limited to, the recent mad rantings of health minister Clement about doctors and the ethics of harm reduction.
These guys are already out of control.
Rupp is absolutely right to compare them with the totalitarian precedents she cited.
Readers might be interested to know that there's a poll being gathered right now about Canadians' attitudes concerning access to abortion and the question of whether or not it should be an insured service under the Canada Health Act.
sanamark
3 years ago
Coming soon!
Well, I guess we'll just have to control them at the next election. Looks like it will be fairly soon, too.
slim
3 years ago
Sochi, The Dictatorial Republic of Russia
I wonder how many Georgian flags will be flying in Sochi, Russia in 2014.
realisticman
3 years ago
Hidden Agenda Redux
If at first you don't succeed.
August 20, 2008
MP Ken Epp responds to the Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada's Claims about Unborn Victims of Crime Bill.
"Bill C-484 does not make the fetus a 'person' as ARCC claims," Epp said. "It does recognize the existence of the fetus, as a number of presently existing laws already do, including the Criminal Code and tort law.
"Importantly, Bill C-484, if it were to become law, would in fact not affect the law on abortion nor would it criminalize pregnant women for any harm they may cause to their own fetuses/unborn children. C-484 is only about abortion for those abortion-rights advocates who are so extreme in their views that they cannot get past their strident ideology to feel any compassion for a woman who is such a tragic victim."
Epp added, "Ms. Arthur and ARCC claim to be the great defenders of women's rights, and yet by opposing Bill C-484 they are robbing women of the added protection, in criminal law, of bringing their children safely into the world. They are denying justice to the woman who has been victimized by a brutal crime, one which has violently taken her yet-to-be-born but very much wanted child from her womb. How can Ms. Arthur and ARCC claim to speak for women when they work so hard to rob such a violated woman of basic human compassion and justice?"
I'd hoped that the Liberal campaign would be more exciting than a re-hash of the last one. Perhaps the 'Soldiers in the Streets with Guns' ad will come back too. Just re-run the old ads. "We're not making this up, We're not allowed to make stuff up." Is guess that's what we can expect because there's no money.
G West
3 years ago
Speaking of making things up
For anyone who took the trouble to check the 'million' referenced in the Canadian Family Action Coalition chop job it turns out to be more like a few dozen.
Pretty funny actually.
You can read about it here:
http://www.thecourt.ca/2008/08/19/the-complaints-against-chief-justice-mclachlin-are-less-than-impressive
And speaking of making things up, if pee wee keeps sending his fear mongering little pre-election diatribes through peoples' mail slots at taxpayers expense he may find he has about as much support as the campaign to dump Bev McLachlin does.
Not very much.
By the way, I wonder how impressed the right wing is that pee wee's heritage ministry is chopping funds for art, ballet and God knows what all else.
realisticman
3 years ago
More Spinning Headlines Ignoring FACTS
The Globe the CBC and all the others that love a good silly spin trip are making headlines out of nothing. What's new?
If they said they were cutting broccoli from the military meals and replacing it with double portions of spinach and beans, the headline spinners would make front page fodder claiming, "Tories cut essential vegetables from soldiers diets!"
It's just like that silly headline in the Globe this week and the story by Robert Matas about government control over the 2010 Olympic extravaganza. The federal government has obligations and policy commitments regarding bi-lingualism and multi-culturalism and, since they're fronting more than half cash too, needs to ensure that the obligations are fulfilled. A tempest in a teapot made the headline!
Tories spent more on cultural programs than Liberals
David Akin and Juliet O'Neill , Canwest News Service
Published: Friday, August 15, 2008
OTTAWA - The federal government, after three years with the Conservatives in charge, is spending more on cultural programs each year than it did during the last year of the Liberal government, according to a Canwest News Service analysis of government financial documents.
For the current fiscal year, which ends March 31, 2009, Parliament has voted to spend more than $4 billion on cultural programs, including the CBC, the Canada Arts Council, the National Gallery of Canada and the Department of Canadian Heritage. That amount is $660 million or 19.7 per cent more than was spent in fiscal 2006, the last year when the Liberals controlled the purse strings.
Overall program spending during that same period is up 18.6 per cent. In other words, Conservatives have boosted spending on arts programs faster than they have boosted overall government spending.
The analysis was prompted by a flurry of criticism prompted by the cancellation, first reported last week by Canwest News Service, of a program that gave Canadian artists and cultural workers small grants to travel abroad.
G West
3 years ago
What kind of culture?
I heard the heritage minister being interviewed on that subject yesterday.
He was hilarously unconvincing.
The fact is that that this government is politicizing the expenditure of cultural funds to an extent unheard of under the Liberals - and they were bad enough.
This has nothing to do with headlines, it has a lot to do with actually supporting the arts.
A little research would show anyone who cared that the 'heritage ministry' has:
- confirmed it would no longer fund the $4.7 million PromArt program, which subsidizes the promotion of Canadian artists touring abroad.
- funding of the $9 million Trade Routes program, which promotes the export of Canadian arts and culture products abroad, had also been cut.
- elimination of further federal cultural funding included contributions of:
$300,000 to the Audio-Visual Preservation Trust of Canada, for programs archiving important film, television and musical recordings.
$1.5 million to the Canadian Independent Film and Video Fund.
$2.5 million to the National Training Program in the Film and Video Sector.
Two programs that provide administrative support to arts organizations — the Stabilization Projects and Capacity Building — will also be eliminated, as will two New Media Research funds, the government announced in updates on the programs' respective web pages.
As Rob Macquire of Arts Threat put it:
"...
The timing of the announcements, at the peak of Canada's summer holiday season when many Canadians are distracted with summer holidays and family vacationing, has also been criticized as a cynical attempt to have the cuts go unnoticed.
Talk about cynical, hypocritcal and just plain dishonest.
And I thought you were a supporter of the 'arts'.
Now, let's get back to so-called facts.
Pee Wee is shaping up to be the biggest threat to arts and culture that this nation has ever seen.
realisticman
3 years ago
All Spin
Fact is arts spending is up almost 20% under the Conservatives, Artspeak spin notwithstanding. Allocations always move around and some pet projects from the loosing aggrieved with suffer while others succeed.
A few Toronto arts-types are squealing, probably because they want to see Dion fall on his face and Bob Rae take over. Fact is, if you want less funding for the arts then, as the record proves, vote Liberal. I guess these artsy types don't know which side their bread is buttered on.
G West
3 years ago
Like I said
You pretend to support the arts - in actual fact you don't - and neither does anyone who would provide excuses for the way pee wee spends his money.
It's perfectly plausible that funding would be up - despite a 44 million dollar cut in funding - because pee wee and his friends are shuffling the dough to the kind of things his mentally challenged view of the country appreciates.
You may not like the Toronto/Montreal arts establishment but it's head and shoulders ahead of anything done by the provincial hicks in Calgary.
Apart from the Glenbow pee wee's stomping grounds is about as cultured as cottage cheese.
If Mozart came to pee wee for funds he'd have him set up to write a jingle for a political commercial.
The man and the clones in his government - I can't name a single one with any credibility or any independence of thought - are a joke.
You should see if you can find the Newsworld interview with Heritage Minister Jim Abbott - as good an example of a worn-out Reform retread as I've ever seen. I suspect he has an assitant to knot his tie.
realisticman
3 years ago
All Spin; All the time
Feeling better after your morning invective?
I can see why your new toy pundit is so enthralling. I should thank him too. In 2004 he helped bring down the last Liberal regime, yes the one that was stingy with arts funding.
G West
3 years ago
Toy Pundit: What ARE you talking about?
There are dozens of other spokespersons for the arts in Canada out there - Maguire just happens to be one - you can check yourself if you like.
And when have I ever written anything positive about Federal Liberals?
The agenda I wonder about is the one subscibed to by folks who say they love the arts and who choose to ignore Abbott and Harper and what they're up to.
The fact that Abbott, among others, is completely incompetent also seems to have escaped the government's purblind defenders.
You used to have a sense of humour. Perhaps you'll enjoy this:
http://blog.macleans.ca/tag/gwynne-dyer/
G West
3 years ago
Maybe you'd care to see
What the Canadian Independent Record Producers have to say about pee wee Rambo and culture:
http://www.cirpa.ca/Page.asp?PageID=751&SiteNodeID=212
Please note the first reference - perhaps you'd be more at home back in the old country when the Tories show Gordon Brown the door?
sanamark
3 years ago
Hmmm
I don't recall this poster ever writing anything positive about anything.
G West
3 years ago
Not very observant
Actually, as realisticman will attest, G West gave pee wee credit for the one good thing he has done since coming to power...changing the preferential tax treatment on income trusts.
It wasn't much and it was done in a pusillanimous and half-assed way, but it was certainly more than the Paul Martin or Stephane Dion Liberals would have done.
As for not posting much positive, you're absolutely right; the Campbell government has ruined this place, sold much of it off to his friends and turned the civil service into a joke.
When something good happens - I'll let you know.
realisticman
3 years ago
Small mercies
I don't know about pusillanimous, it seemed a somewhat progressive and courageous move that rocked a large section of both their hoped-for and current constituency. Truly an extraordinary kudos, coming from you.
G West
3 years ago
Yes, pusillanimous
If you're going to change the rules - change the rules - don't give your buddies in the investment community (now there's a euphemism that would make Orwell's blood boil) a handful of years to adapt.
Therefore, pusillanimous: Would you prefer chicken shit?
Thanks for the witness though.
By the way, I take it you're elated by the transfer of millions of dollars of arts funding (no phasing in of those measures) to the 2010 Opening ceremonies and the torch relay?
Nice.
realisticman
3 years ago
Allen's worth more
Bruce would have an open cheque-book were I the giver.
I hope you're not going to be lurking in a gutter somewhere, ready to trip a bearer up.
Since it was all Glen Clark's idea, I do hope he's sent an invite. Maybe he'd like to carry the torch through Burnaby. I hear that to save the planet there'll be no flame, just a cardboard cut-out.
G West
3 years ago
Sounds offensive and personal to me
Which seems, sadly, to be where you always end up my friend.
sanamark
3 years ago
Nice Day!
I see lots of good things happening all the time. I am sorry that you don't.
I am sorry to hear that. I am not sure I agree because I see many nice things in British Columbia but I guess he is assured to lose the election next May.
Frank
3 years ago
R'man
As I've pointed out before, you have yet to say anything positive about anyone besides the Conservatives and BC Liberals. So it seems hypocritical to complain about balance from everyone else.
On the other hand you have a great view when you live inside a glass house.
sanamark
3 years ago
Ballot Box Success?
Well, if political success is measured in winning elections, the Liberals and Conservatives hold 10 of 11 governments in Canada. I guess they are doing something right if so many people vote for them, or at least they represent the will of enough voters to put them into government.
Frank
3 years ago
CityPerson
On your third alias already WorkingMan? You'll notice I'm still on my first, but unlike you I don't get banned for trolling.
In a 2 party system its amazing they only hold 10 out of 11. Manitoba must bring a tear to your eye.
sanamark
3 years ago
Not really
The voters are entitled to elect any government they want.
Frank
3 years ago
Democracy
That's right WM, I would hope you also believe that our electoral system should produce results that represent the democratic will?
sanamark
3 years ago
I do
I have never missed an election in my life, Frank, voted in every one. As for our electoral system, well, it is the only one we have and I must play the cards I am dealt. And what is wm?
Frank
3 years ago
WM=WorkingMan
As a professed democrat I would hope you'd agree we need a system that reflects the will of the people, unlike the current one.
sanamark
3 years ago
Sure, Frank
Sure, Frank. But until that happens, I have to vote in the system we have. How about you? Are you going to vote some other way?
Frank
3 years ago
WM
Other than what?
So you're a supporter of electoral reform here in BC? In the interests of improving our democracy of course?
sanamark
3 years ago
As a matter of fact.....
I tend to prefer a system where each riding still has an elected member while each political party also receives seats based on their proportion of the vote received. The number of ridings may have to be reduced to keep the number of MLAs or MPs to a reasonable level. However, to receive seats under the proportional system, the party would have to poll at least 10%. I believe this is the system used in Germany. I think the STV system is too complicated.
However, I don't see this kind of a system coming any time soon since none of the political parties in Canada support it.
G West
3 years ago
I prefer a system where
I prefer a system where big bucks and a purblind media can't buy elections with lies and ignorance.
I have lots of confidence in the people - unfortunately, the current Premier doesn't and therefore he does nothing but cater to his corporate friends and ignores the needs of the majority.
All the while selling out the province while he pretends to love natives (as long as they comply with his corporate buddies needs) and passes pointless and costly laws to spin money as a green campaign.
If you like folks who don't keep their promises and smile while they sell the family silver - then by all means vote for Campbell - he's your man.
realisticman
3 years ago
Frank
Complaining about balance? I only got into this thread because the assertion of reduced funding for the arts & culture had smothered the airwaves and is at the risk of becoming gospel, when it's all spin!
If someone sees Harper swatting a mosquito on his arm expect the Animal Rights horde to claim that "Defenseless tiny animal murdered by Harper in cold-blood!". I don't see a demon as many do. I see a caucus with some strange characters but I do not see the swath of resignations due to impropriety that we saw under both the Liberal and, in particular, under the Mulroney regimes. Many complaints read on this forum refer to areas of provincial jurisdiction, yet the feds are chastized - and vice versa.
I saw no benefits to anyone here during the NDP rein. I saw a declining economy, people leaving, bad relations with the federal government and the province slipping into an isolated economic basket case. I guess the NDP did bring us the 2010 Olympics and that's good.
I'm not interested in class wars. Life and opportunities in BC is quite good. Dissent is healthy and stimulates progress but the social utopia of dreamers is impossible, particularly since many consider the hard worked gains of others to be theirs.
I'm interested in fairness and the facts.
sanamark
3 years ago
Well...
Best of luck with that one but campaign finance reforms have made an attempt to level out the playing field somewhat.
sanamark
3 years ago
Utopia
Utopia is as cool concept now as when Sir Thomas More wrote it in 1516. It means "not place" and it is just as much a dream then as it is now. It was an excellent piece of satire, too.
Of course they are. We have one of the best standards of living in the world. BC is full of negative naysayers to a level I have never seen anywhere else in the world. I do note that said naysayers have somewhat limited horizons, and little to compare their good fortune to. They criticize but I don't see them offer many workable solution. Is the seizure of wealth going to happen? A revolution? Not any time soon.
It is the job of government to govern. If they listened to naysayers nothing would get done. Finally, if the naysayers are not content with the government in power, they can vote for whatever party they feel represents their interests.
Frank
3 years ago
sanamark
Which is like saying chickens will never get the vote because none of the fox parties are in favour.
The system you would like to see was voted down in Ontario unfortunately. A sad day for democracy in Canada but a good day for those in favour of voter apathy.
Frank
3 years ago
realisticman
Kinda like now? Entire towns shutting down. Entire industries sold off and shut down. Public assets sold at fire sale prices. Property values in decline.
Really? I very much look forward to seeing evidence of that.
Frank
3 years ago
sanamark
I'd like to ses a government that has ideas and solutions for the problems that confront our society. Too bad you prefer to vote for those that don't see any problems and therefore don't have to have ideas.
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
I'm a positive guy Luke, I like to believe people can fix problems. Unlike sanamark and realisticman I don't like to just put my head down shuffle along and tell myself that there's nothing we can do.
I would imagine all that negativity will lead to early graves, hopefully they'll snap out of it one day and believe in fixing problems instead of ignoring them.
G West
3 years ago
Torch relays and opening ceremonies
So that's your idea of 'high' culture and 'the Arts'. I suppose you’d be happy if pee wee gave Michelangelo a roller and a paint tray and told him to get started on the Sistine Chapel.
Enjoy your little two week fling – but don’t expect the taxpayers to pick up the garbage afterward.
Still, thanks for clarifying.
I'll file that one for future reference - I was sure you were a ballet fan.
As for things being good here in BC - the stats don't back you up; inequality and poverty are growing - in a time when they should be things of the past.
You rosy optimists have a very narrow - actually I'd say non-existent - perspective.
How about addressing unaffordable housing, child poverty, crumbling infrastructure, moribund health care, failing universities, impossible transportation, the decimated forest industry, unsustainable pressure on agriculture, a stupid and wasteful gas tax?
I'm glad things are nice for the three of you - too bad you can't see what's happening to everyone else.
Kinda works that way when your Dear Leader doesn't understand why flying free to Beijing with his bosses is inappropriate.
realisticman
3 years ago
Who's Michaelangelo?
Never heard of them. Spray-paintings easier though.
I don't expect to be going to any Olympic events. I did go to one once to see the spectacle when I happened to be in a city that was hosting a games and was given a ticket. Good for the city with many visitors seeing the city and spending that will give a boost to all the services visitors use.
Don't go into the inequality and growing poverty again because the stats just show that the last initial figures were taken out of context, as usual, and actually people are better off than ever before. Been there, done that.
Either people are crazy or perhaps things are not as bad as some other people stubbornly insist.
12 July 2005
A survey carried out on over 17,000 people in 16 countries, asked the question: Suppose a young person who wanted to leave this country asked you to recommend where to lead a good life, what country would you recommend?
Australia was the top choice of respondents from Britain (31 per cent) and Canada (18 per cent), while Americans and the French chose Canada (16 and 14 per cent respectively).
Australia and Canada were the most recommended destinations for people from the Netherlands and Germany.
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2005_07_12/europe/young_people_immigrate.htm
Of course, the irony is that the most powerful, enduring and effective art usually comes forth from artists that are not subsidized by their governments.
What are amongst your favourites?
realisticman
3 years ago
Maybe you can have silver
Sorry Garth but Shannon has been awarded the gold in whining.
How do like this? Do you think they should be sued for false advertising?
The United Nations has ranked Canada the best place to live for five consecutive years.Their surveys are based on quality of life, educational opportunities, unemployment and crime rates, and life expectancy.
A 1997 survey of people in 20 countries found that the majority placed Canada in the top ten lists of countries where they would like to live. Most countries consider Canada a generous, peaceful and compassionate nation, while they see Canadians as honest, friendly and polite.
Canada is a highly developed country, with excellent working conditions, an outstanding education system, a very high standard of living and a health care system ranked one of the best in the world.
Canada is one of the leading G-7 Nations and the second largest country in the world with a population of approximately 30 million people.
Each year, Canada welcomes more than 200,000 new immigrants. No matter where you come from, once you are a landed immigrant you have all the rights of Canadian citizen. The diversified backgrounds and cultures are what make Canada unique. Multiculturalism is promoted to help maintain this unique "melting pot".
Canada is a country composed of immigrants from practically every country in the world. Canada's success is largely due to the contributions made by these immigrants.
During the 1990s, Canada received between 200,000 and 250,000 immigrants per year
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms entrenched in the Canadian constitution guarantees such fundamental rights as equality, mobility and legal rights, as well as freedom of speech, assembly and association.
These rights are protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Should you wish to become a citizen, you can do so after you have lived in Canada for three years. As a Canadian citizen, you can apply for a Canadian passport and you are eligible to vote. Canada has a long tradition of welcoming immigrants. Home to two official languages, English and French, Canada is also a multicultural society, with more than 17% of the population reporting a mother tongue other than English or French.
http://www.infoicic.com/
Keep it up and, perhaps, we'll consider you for gold in curmudgeonliness.
G West
3 years ago
Out of context?
I don't think so.
Any more than the situation in dozens of interior communities is out of context, or the cost of owning a home in Vancouver is out of context, or the pretense of being green because you pass a money-laundering tax and at the same time rake in billions from selling oil and gas leases.
WHAT kind of context would you care to discuss.
We're going the way of our stupid neighbours to the south and out idiot cousins across the pond. Folks who think buying a lot of useless stuff has anything to do with happiness and well being.
I will award you the gold medal for pretense though - all those posts about how much you love the arts couldn't possibly deliver anything less than first prize. Next time you decry a cut to arts funding, I’ll be sure to remind you how much you 'love' torch relays - even more than Michelangelo.
If I could, I'd post a few of a collection of photos of abandoned houses for your wall; they, especially printed in sepia tones, provide a rather artistic vision when tastefully matted and framed.
Totalitarian states do manage a wonderful spectacle though - I wonder if Dear Leader Campbell and his fellow travellers will be up to the standard set by Hitler and now exceeded so spectacularly by Hu Jintao.
However, my colleague at Peking University, is singularly unimpressed.
The only people who are better off are Gordon's small circle of friends. The rest of us - not people you apparently have anything to do with - are either losing ground or treading water.
Keep on buying bespoke suits and taking trips to the Far East while real people struggle to pay the rent and put food on the table.
Living rough is only romantic when you're looking back on the experience in a self-satisfied way.
Sadly.
realisticman
3 years ago
Vacation Time
Perhaps a well earned holiday in Haiti or North Korea would help you develop a perspective.
You should be careful.
By ERICA GOODE
Published: September 2, 2003
Most people accept the idea that stress and depression chip away at the body's natural ability to fight off disease. But many medical scientists have remained skeptical that the mind can exert such a direct influence over the immune system.
In recent years, however, evidence has accumulated that psychology can indeed affect biology. Studies have found, for example, that people who suffer from depression are at higher risk for heart disease and other illnesses. Other research has shown that wounds take longer to heal in women who care for patients with Alzheimer's disease than in other women who are not similarly stressed. And people under stress have been found to be more susceptible to colds and flu, and to have more severe symptoms after they fall ill.
Now a new study adds another piece to the puzzle. Researchers at the University of Wisconsin are reporting today that the activation of brain regions associated with negative emotions appears to weaken people's immune response to a flu vaccine.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806EFDF1538F931A3575AC0A9659C8B63
cboo44
3 years ago
Athletic Supporters
Why should it be all about "The Government", that all too familiar whine of Canadians?
How many top Canadian athletes are we going to send to both the 2010 and 2012 Olympic?
Total of ? 400 max. ? Divide those athletes up among the top 200 most profitable public Canadian companies or public companies operating in Canada and say "Here, you TOTALLY underwrite ALL living, training, travel, clothing and incidental expenses of TWO of our athletes EACH, over the next two and four years(depending on which games). THAT is an additional responsibility of doing a profitable business in Canada. Now, on the OTHER side of that Olympic coin, all support is tax deductible and company related promotions, appearances, ad campaigns, etc, using those "company athletes" are acceptable.
The "Top 200" would take ownership of athletic achievement for ALL of Canada. "The Government" will concentrate on development programs for athletes who are then eligible for "the Top 200 sponsorships" .
sanamark
3 years ago
Next May, Frank
Well, Frank, you speak of voter apathy. If what you say above is true, get out and vote for the party you feel will deliver what you want.
There is plenty that I can do, and it is exactly the same as what you can do, Frank. I can get out and vote for the candidate who I feel best represents my concerns. Just because voters may not have the exact political system they want doesn't mean they are apathetic.
G West
3 years ago
Thanks for that realisticman
I assure you my health and my mental functions are in perfect order - perhaps the Ombudsman can suggest the provincial government should fund extra holidays for the the folks working in the care homes she's investigating - maybe our Dear Leader Campbell could spend a few weeks each year filling in for them.
He might find that almost as 'inspirational' as Olympic ceremonies organized, run and paid for by totalitarian states like China - especially ones with high cultural values and a lot of lip-synching.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
realisticman...
I'm not interested in class wars. Life and opportunities in BC is quite good.
OTOH, perhaps this sums up the other side of the political spectrum??? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta26MfAJTt8
G West
3 years ago
political involvement
If all anyone can do about the appalling inequality and corruption in this province is vote once every four years then we really are in trouble.
Somehow constantly hearing the same Pollyannaish toothy refrain from three optimists: 'I'm all right Jack' …in the face of the obvious disintegration of community and hopeless homelessness (among the rest of a long list of REAL problems) in this society does tend to make me despair of ever seeing any change here. How many hits has Greater Vancouver experienced this year? Remind me again how great things are when old folks spend their final days slumped in wheelchairs in dirty Depends in for-profit care homes.
Tell me more about how a province with such a huge GDP has among the lowest minimum wages and the highest cost of housing?
Greedy self-interest and purblind ignoring of reality does tend to make me a little pessimistic about the morality of some of my fellow British Columbians.
Of course it's not as depressing as several right-wing websites I could name - but almost.
It must have stuck in Gordo's craw that Rogge handed the baton to London and NOT Vancouver today - y'think?
sanamark
3 years ago
Hmmm
I note that "depression" is a theme....
Don't like right wing web sites? Don't read them. They have every right to express themselves, as do you.
If the political system outlined in the Canadian Constitution is not suitable to you, GWest, there are legal means to change the system. Just find a political party you support and vote for it. You can even run for office yourself.
DPL
3 years ago
For those folks who go out
For those folks who go out to Elk Lake two to three times a day and still do training on land it's work but alos fun to compete, and unfortunly some have to stop to feed the family, or the families cna't afford to pay for the training. They are there at first light and they all arn't only the Olympic Team but all hope to get there someday.
Silken Luaman said it best a few days ago. The Canadain athlets are not necessasily under funded, but their coaches who must be world class often are. The facilities at Elk Lake are in rough shape so lets see some money heading that way of King Gordos statements are to happen. As an aside let's not forget the place set up in China by BC to lure in as Gordo estimated would be over 400,000 to the place. Turns out less tha 30 thousand dropped in. Heck it was only 12 million that would have sure been appreciated by the kids on the way up who train because they dream of winning, not like in China where they get selected about the time they leanr how to walk and the family ses them only when the state allows. Other sports in this country are poorly financed as well.
G West
3 years ago
Hardly a serious suggestion Sanamark
Just try it sometime Sansamark - you know how long G West lasted on any neo-con website he's ever posted?
I'll tell you - less than a minute. Right wingers don't like the truth and they won't abide anyone who tells them they might not have a lock on it.
There is some protected free speech here at Tyee, not a lot, but some - but there is none whatever on right wing comment boards.
Believe me, I know.
By the way, you're still into personal and insulting remarks - not real debate: A lot like several other posters of a similar political bent who used to post here and some who still do.
Attack my ideas and views all you want - I'll handle anything you and luke can dish out - but the personal stuff is off limits - the only depressing thing is those whose mode of argumentation always defaults to stuff like that.
How come?
Is the right wing so unsure of itself that you can't defend its record on the merits?
In fact, you sound precisely like City Person - someone who posted exactly that same suggestion to G West here a few months ago.
Here’s the rule you’re breaking when you don’t just stick to issues and ideas:
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We ask you to reflect this spirit in your comments, to relate your comments to the subject matter of the preceding articles, and to refrain from personal insults towards authors or other commenters.
The Tyee is not responsible for the content of posted comments.
We reserve the right to delete comments we deem vulgar, personally insulting, libelous, racist, or sexist, or for any other reason harmful to the quality of the Tyee forum.
sanamark
3 years ago
Attacking?
I am not attacking your ideas in any way, shape or form. What I am doing is asking you to tell me a better way to achieve your goals than the exiting political process. It is a simple question that can be simply answered.
I believe I am sticking to issues and ideas. You decry the status quo and rail against the present government, which was legally and constitutionally elected. I point out that said government, or any other for that matter, is responsible to the citizenry as whole during elections. Therefore, if you are unhappy with any government, you are free to vote against it or even run for election yourself. Finally, if this system is acceptable to you, I await your alternative in the name of healthy debate.
And why do you speak about yourself in third person? I was taught to never do that.
realisticman
3 years ago
sanamark
You might be tarred and feathered. You're meant to be depressed too.
Expect 'The End is Neigh' speech very soon, with a stern reminder that it's all your fault unless you join the revolution.
sanamark
3 years ago
Realisticman
RM, you can be assured that the sanamark is in the best of health and not depressed at all. The end will certainly be neigh at some time or other since we are all mere mortals. Besides, I have never heard of a revolution starting on a web board.
G West
3 years ago
Oh, then you didn't write this?
or this:
That's condescending, pedantic, insulting, irrelevant and it does not discuss anything but me, personally, and what I may or may not do - it has nothing to do with ideas.
As for the third person thing - what does it matter - I was merely illustrating the facts. Almost everyone here uses a handle - I use a name - G West, and I used that same name when I was posting on several right-wing websites. For, as I mentioned, no more than 60 seconds.
Clear?
Oh, and your remark about using the 3rd person and making a reference to what 'you've been taught' is also personal, irrelevant and off topic.
Now, can you please tell me why you think the Campbell government is doing a good job?
I've given you several concrete examples of how I think it isn't - and you haven't responded with anything but empty generalities about the electoral system and the Constitution, remember?
Oh, by the way, are you City Person?
Frank and I have a little side bet on it.
sanamark
3 years ago
Quote:That's condescending,
I am sorry you feel that way. That was never the sanamark's intention. The sanamark humbly apologies to the GWest.
I didn't say they were. I have been asking the GWest what his alternative to the democratic process is. But since the GWest does not wish to answer the sanamark's question, the debate is over.
The sanamark realises he is hopelessly outclassed and awaits the last work below.
Insert Last Word Here
Frank
3 years ago
GWest
What you have to remember about sanamark/CityPerson is he's anti-democracy. He doesn't support electoral reform and instead has suggested revolution on the Tyee just 2 days ago.
Besides rounding up the homeless and sending them to work on farms.
Sad really but it takes all kinds I guess.
Obviously a person with such a sad outlook would be welcomed by realisticman, he who spouts the downfall of civilized society if anyone even mentions one of Harper's hairs are out of place.
Stump
3 years ago
The End is Neigh?
Is that a another way of saying straight from the horse's mouth, or something from the other 'end'.
Better reign it in. LOL
Frank
3 years ago
The Neighs have it
Good times
G West
3 years ago
The point is, I guess
The point is, I guess, that some folks just don't actually understand what debate is all about.
Instead of give and take, they're only interested in the give.
I'd still like to know how the right wing justifies (apart from their own self-interest) continuing to support CEO Campbell.
Frank
3 years ago
GWest
They don't, they never talk about him. In fact I think you've violated some sort of dictate in even mentioning his name.
The beast (or maybe Ezra Levant) will be unleashed upon you G for daring to talk about politicians other than the responsible-for-every-evil NDP.
There's also a bit touchy about falling property values and are pretty sure its Gary Doer's fault.
Frank
3 years ago
For those playing along at home
"There's" should be "They're"
G West
3 years ago
Speaking of CEO Campbell
I don't know if you've been following the destruction of the career of Paul Battershill, the recently resigned police chief in Victoria and a leader in the infamous and - unique in the British Commonwealth – raid on the BC Legislature a few years back.
I don't actually know much about him but it appears he angered someone in a position of power and he's been done in by the Byzantine operation of a Police Board, the majority of whom are appointed by the province and at least one member who came from the Premier's Office through the actions of a well-known ‘Liberal’ law firm. You may have read about it. But the interesting part – information we’re just now pulling together includes some details about the makeup and operation of the Police Board.
The Board is tasked with
"... perform(ing) due diligence in keeping themselves fully informed. The board must be "a full partner with the chair and must work with other board members so that the board functions as a UNIT ... It should mean that there has been a full debate and that all members are willing to publicly support majority decisions of the board. It is imperative that the board take into consideration and respect the role of the Chief Constable when having these discussions."
Now in the case of Battershill's destruction, the board, as described by lawyer and provincial appointee Ralston Alexander, says it didn't even 'see' the whole report on Battershill - and yet voted 'no confidence' in him.
Again, where's that openness and transparency the CEO promised? I think, like so many other aspects that touch the purloining of BC Rail, the hands of the Executive Council are reaching out once again in the interests of Gordon Campbell.
I almost forgot that another member of this see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil and definitely know when to shut up Board is a certain Catherine Holt. I’ll just mention that she comes from the Premier’s Office… where she was the province's senior representative for Intergovernmental Relations, responsible for strategic management of a broad range of international and national issues, and Assistant Cabinet Secretary. She now works with a group called Sage Group Management…you might want to have a google at some of their clients.
G West
3 years ago
And, just for you realisticman
Seems to me it was you who brought up the subject of abortion the other day - which led to an interesting but inconclusive discussion about Dr Morgenthaler and his Order of Canada.
Anyway, just thought you might find this interesting - if you're still convinced that Conservatives and their brothers aren't above doing a little bending and spinning when it might be to their advantage.
And, what it says about polls and opinions is kinda interesting too.
http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2008/8/21/3849950.html
ME2
3 years ago
GWest
Tell us more about Paul Battershill, Garth.
G West
3 years ago
ME2
Best place to start is Mary's blog - http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/
It'll get you up to speed pretty quickly.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Another View of the World... #1
G West:
And, what it says about polls and opinions is kinda interesting too.
Firstly, it appears that KLR VU is some wannabe pollster that doesn't have any track record and is linked to the sibling of a Tory MP.
Wouldn't touch that poll with a ten foot pole (poll???). I even have my daruthers about several mainstream pollsters' track record but I will leave it at that.
FWIW, Democratic Space, a well-known blog that had the best riding by riding analysis of the last federal election utilizing various credible methodologies (including the current federal by-elections) had this, in part, to say:
The jury is of course still out on KLR VU, given that it just doesn’t have a track record for us to judge its reliability.
http://www.democraticspace.com/blog/
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Another View of the World... #2
G West:
Still remember when Mike Harcourt was running for the NDP in 1991 promising "no more jobs for friends and insiders". Yeah right. After Harcourt was elected, all the NDP stalwarts began feeding like pigs at the taxpayer's trough.
The pressures turned personal for Harcourt on March 10, when provincial Conflict of Interest commissioner Ted Hughes opened an investigation into the premier’s dealings with an advertising company owned by one of his long-standing supporters.
Harcourt's troubles, however, have their roots precisely in the amount of the people's business that his government has directed to its own friends and insiders. Most controversial has been a series of government contracts worth more than $5 million awarded to Vancouver-based NOW Communications, owned by former NDP communications director and campaign strategist Ron Johnson, whose wife, former national NDP president Johanna den Hertog, has also found work as a provincial government trade consultant.
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0010411
Literally hundreds of such cases were reported by the media during the 1990's. Hypocracy at its best.
As for the current "CEO" premier, Harcourt proudly boasted that as premier he was the "Chairman of the Board". Big deal.
BC truly needs a re-alignment of its political structure akin to that of Ontario provincially and Canada federally whereby there are two major parties, the Liberals and PC's and a minor party, the NDP at around 15% +- a few points in both jurisdictions.
It represents Canada's "real world" political environment and former NDP premiers Harcourt, Miller, and Dosanjh would then run Liberal both provincially and federally instead of having to cross over federally to the Liberals, which is unnatural.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Another View of the World... #3
G West:
And as for BC Rail, historically BC's biggest pig-in-a-poke, in today's dollars "billions" were lost in capital expenditures over the past few decades (the Dease Lake extension, for example), notwithstanding lost revenue in terms of subsidies and operating losses of the same magnitude.
Then there was the MacKenzie Royal Commission into BC Rail's activities.
Yep, a real winner. The CN lease takeover likely provided synergies to their operations but I still don't know how it can be profitable, since it's a north/south line mostly hauling forest products in today's market.
Perhaps, the NDP should make it an election plank to re-nationalize the leased assets of BC Rail??? ;)
G West
3 years ago
Sorry Luke won't do, and inaccurate.
You still haven't answered a direct question about why Finance Minister Gary Farrell Collins stood on his feet in the legislature and crowed about how the 'sale' of BC Rail was bringing in a windfall profit of one billion dollars into provincial coffers.
I pointed out the references for you months ago and you've done absolutely nothing since to explain why the actual 'gain' on the transaction as reflected in the province's books of account is just $199 million.
Somebody's lying. And the fact that the CEO and his aide-de-camp the current Attorney General are dragging every appendage to prevent the courts getting to the bottom of what happened to the nation's third largest railway and the king's ransom of land that went with it is the real story here.
Absolutely, BC Rail should be re-acquired from Campbell's friends at CN who stole it - and also the hundreds of hectares of land that the government has quietly, by Order in Council, transferred to other uses and owners for little more than a song.
I don't like it when the servants steal the family jewels. Campbell, although he's forgotten it, is a servant of the people - not the provincial CEO of sell outs.
Now, about that lie Gary Farrell Collins seems to have told in the legislature, please?
G West
3 years ago
As for your other points
1) KLR VU - not really very different from sloppy outfits like CanWest's strategic partners - you clearly didn't read the background information up thread – and the material wasn't meant for you anyway. You’re several days late and completely out to lunch: It was addressing something realisticman said...you can check it out.
2) On the other comment - irrelevant - we now have a CEO government run off the Premier's credenza - all appointments vetted through his office; there is no comparison and, even if there were, whatever damage the NDP might have done to the furniture has long since paled in comparison to what Campbell has done in order to enrich his small circle of compromised friends - you know the ones who pay his political bills and fly him, gratis, to international events to make a fool of himself in public.
BC Mary
3 years ago
Paul Battershill's story deserves attention
G West, ME2,
Many thanks. The Paul Battershill story does deserve attention. Unexpectedly, it has become almost a replica in miniature of the BCRail fiasco. And unless we push hard, we're not going to be allowed to hear or to correct either one of these B.C. stories. And that's just not right.
From everything I've read about him, Battershill was an outstanding Chief of Police for 9 years in Victoria. He was in charge of the iinvestigation into certain criminal activities which eventually led to the raid on the B.C. Legislature in 2003.
That means he will be an important witness giving evidence at the Basi-Virk / BC Rail trial and it's making people wonder if this is why somebody began this attack on his integrity. The next pre-trial hearings get under way again on September 17. Coincidence?
Google Paul Battershill, and read about this public servant ... and the things he accomplished in his 23 years as a BC cop.
Victoria was a lot safer when Chief Battershill was on the job, if you ask me.
The attacks on him just shouldn't be happening. The good news is that many people understand this and seem to be ready to shout "We're mad as hell and we aren't gonna take it any longer!"
Read about it at The Legislature Raids.
.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Again...
Oh brother, apparently ya still don't know the difference between "diamonds" and "cubic zirconia".
And I really have no interest in attempting to look at the complex BC Rail transaction.
Political working class rhetoric.
Nationally both Nanos Research and Ipsos [the "sloppy" CanWest strategic partner] are considered the "gold standard" in federal polling... in BC that would be Mustel and also Ipsos. For Quebec that would be CROP and Leger.
But you will never understand.
More political rhetoric. Sheesh you would make a good fit with Vancouver's left wing COPE.
That's why moderate provincial New Democrats and federal Liberals want nothin' to do with 'em and are now a part of Vision Vancouver.
Frank
3 years ago
Luke Luke Luke (sigh)
Still prefer to live in 1991? Suffer from flashbacks? An inability to stay focused on present times?
So your world would be a better place if all of us Leftists just disappeared into the ether. How charming.
Instead you (A Paul Martin acolyte) could pick between two parties that represent YOU.
I didn't know you were such a democrat that you believed only you should have choice and the rest of us should simply go away.
What is it with you guys on the Right and your hatred of democracy?
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
But it is cool you're willing to allow two parties as long as they both agree with you. I guess that's as democratic as you guys get eh?
At least its something.
Its the end of August, I bet your Liberal membership is expiring, better get that payment in.
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
The strange thing is Luke you're always on about how everyone except you is some sort of political freak. That everyone else is outside the comfortable conformity box.
Do you stand outside of Skytrain stations yelling "freak" at everyone that doesn't want one of your "Campbell is my saviour" pamphlets?
Instead of yelling poll results at bewildered passers-by in the hope that you can return Canada to the comfy world where there was only Liba and Cons, you should instead calm down and deal with the new political world of multiple parties.
I've never yet seen anyone put a Genie back inside a bottle, I doubt very much you'll succeed.
Until then by all means keep yelling "you shouldn't exist!!" at us.
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Frank...
Thought ya were still contemplating Bismarck's opinions of the Bavarians. ;)
Perhaps a little common sense is in order, n'est pas?
Is it not natural for provincial New Democrats to run as federal New Democrats?
Provincial Liberals as federal Liberals?
Provincial PC's as federal PC's?
Of course it is!
1. Former BC New Democrat premier Dosanjh running as a federal Liberal...
2. Former BC New Democrat premier Miller supporting IWA Canada head Haggard as a federal Liberal...
3. We all know that former BC New Democrat premier Harcourt has federal Liberal inclinations. Sheesh, even his long time secretary/assistant Shirley Chan ran as a federal Liberal...
4. Former BC New Democrat MLA Bill Barlee ran as a federal Liberal...
5. Former BC New Democrat MLA Lyle MacWilliam ran as a federal Liberal...
Are these people leftists???
Are the federal liberals leftists???
NADA. They are centrists!
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
I would love to see some.
Depends on their motivation. I would but I would do so with the full knowledge I'd never be part of gov't. Other New Democrats might prefer to serve in a Liberal government than on the NDP 3rd party benches. People aren't robots, they have a variety of motivations and such.
I imagine many provincial Liberals prefer the federal Conservatives.
And yet many federal Cons seem to vote for the Libs provincially. I wonder why?
Is this a rhetorical question?
You say you're one, you tell me. Are you a leftist Luke?
You've already agreed with me on another thread that there is no such thing as centrists, that they are in fact people that don't believe in anything except personal power.
Whenever I've tried to get you to define "centrist" you tell me what they aren't but never what they are.
Frank
3 years ago
Long may the Centrists reign o'er us
So tell me again why it is we on the Left shouldn't exist? You want a Right-wing party, that's clear. And you want what you call a "centrist" party.
If you only have two parties how can one be centrist?
It would seem to be a bit of a contradiction, like a party calling itself the "non-democratic" party yet participating in elections.
In hockey, if there was no left-wing how would the centre know where he should be?
Frank
3 years ago
Let's play a game
I raise some taxes and create new ones.
Run the debt up to almost 100 billion.
Sell assets at fire-sale prices to friends and other associates.
Drive drunk.
Have almost my entire gov't investigated including our emails.
Refuse to resign.
Am I a gov't of the Left, Right or Centre?
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Frank...
NOPE... never said or agreed to anything like that. lol There are leftists, centrists, and rightistas of various shapes, sizes and colours.
To a certain extent, disagree again. Most Canadians lie within the centre-left/centre/centre-right political spectrum.
A poll of Canadians from awhile back had some interesting findings... only around 15% of Canadians identified themselves as leftists or rightists. Just tried to find it without success.
Now why do ya think that the Liberals have historically been Canada's natural governing party???
Luke Skywalker
3 years ago
Hockey...
Good point... the left-wing forward, the centre forward, and the right-wing forward.
Very apropos to politics.
And ya know what???
I still play left-wing forward on my beer league team.
Go figure!
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
Ha! I told you that 6 months ago and you argued with me.
I told you on here that almost everyone thinks of themselves as "average", "normal", "reasonable" and "middle of the road".
Even Reform Party supporters think of themselves that way.
I have my opinion, but I'd love to hear yours first. And please think about it before you answer because there just might be one obvious flaw in your logic.
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
Maybe, but you want to do away with the left-wing which leaves an issue unresolved.
G West
3 years ago
Still no answers luke
But lots of this:
Political working class rhetoric.
But you will never understand.
More political rhetoric. Sheesh you would make a good fit with Vancouver's left wing COPE.
Nothing but offensive personal and vindictive remarks - not a single actual argument, not a single real fact - but lots of rude, irrelevant and completely off the wall references to another individual.
Better be careful, remember the rules.
Because you're breaking them.
By the way, I'm very pleased to think that you'd think I was using working class rhetoric - that's both a feather in my cap and a gold star for people who actually work for a living - unlike certain 'elected' public servants who don't.
And further, the fact you're not even willing to look at the obvious disjunction between what's been said about BCRail and what's actually happened in the financial statements says volumes. Thank you.
All told, a pretty decent day for truth and the future of this province.
Frank
3 years ago
15%
By the way, if you had taken that poll you wouldn't have called yourself a right-winger either would you? You prefer to think of yourself (a Paul Martin Liberal) as a "centrist" correct?
Frank
3 years ago
Luke
To a certain extent, disagree again. Most Canadians lie within the centre-left/centre/centre-right political spectrum.
By the way, you avoided trying to define what a centrist is.
Stump
3 years ago
trains
BC Rail should be re-acquired from Campbell's friends at CN who stole it. I don't like it when the servants steal the family jewels.
Oh brother, apparently ya still don't know the difference between "diamonds" and "cubic zirconia".
And I really have no interest in attempting to look at the complex BC Rail transaction.
They found a buyer didn't they? Guess there must some glitter to that gold, to mangle your metaphor.
Rocky Mountain Railtours was happy to snap up the Whistler run. The profit they'll be making could have been going into provincial coffers for years to come. Short-sighted sell-out IMO.
sanamark
3 years ago
Source?
.
Do you have a source for that figure, Frank? I would be interested to see it. Otherwise, it is just a number you pulled out of the air.
Frank
3 years ago
sanamark
Luke knows it well, we've argued it before on here recently. And he's read the article in the Vancouver Sun himself because I've linked to it 3 times as has another poster.
In a nutshell the column wondered why "contractural obligations" was rising at a rate of 27 billion in one year to a total of 55 billion. What seemed obvious was that the Libs were hiding debt in the "contractural obligations" folder.
In other words, why borrow 27 billion when you can get buddy to borrow the 27 billion instead and you then guarantee payments to him for the next 30 years or whatever.
Its exactly the same as borrowing but you don't have to call it debt.
I'll dig up the link for you.
Frank
3 years ago
sanamark
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=be4c05c2-444b-4624-afbb-fb98ac8b799e
Here's a quote from it
So in my discussions with Luke my point is that you have to add "contractural obligations" to the debt number (among others) to find out what we really owe.
sanamark
3 years ago
I understand
I understand, so, if we move it to a personal level, my personal debt is a lot higher than I thought it was because of my "contractual obligations" such as mortgage payments. However, since that obligation is also an asset, I guess it still counts as a liability.
Another example is my RRSP. Since I contribute $500 a month to it, it is a pure liability because it is a "contractual obligation." The asset or future revenue don't factor into the equation.
G West
3 years ago
And since we've moved on to economic matters
Perhaps you'd find this interesting:
http://www.bcbc.com/Documents/BCEIndexv7n2.pdf
Your example isn't valid.
If the value of the asset begins to decline beyond the point where the cost of the 'contractual obligations' exceeds the book value of the property then the future revenue is a polite fiction
If it happens to enough public assets and current revenue flows then the real consequence of the practice of mortgaging the future to pay for present profligacy isn't just, as Wilkins Micawber would have put it, "misery", it's bankruptcy.
Alberta is the only province to have experienced that result - so far.
Running up huge piles of debt in the good years would seem to be, from a Keynesian point of view (and aren't we all Keynesians now? - with certain 'conservative' exceptions here and in Ottawa) the way to end up (again with Micawber) saying:
Welcome poverty!..Welcome misery, welcome houselessness, welcome hunger, rags, tempest, and beggary!
I might ask you also to consider another ‘inconvenient’ fact:
1) Since 2001 almost 25 million cubic meters of raw logs have left B.C. – devastating our saw mills and pulp mills while creating foreign jobs.
BC gets less than12% of its forest industry jobs from manufacturing…in Oregon they they’ve upped that to 40%.
The provincial government allows raw log exports because it says the logs are surplus to the mill capacity in the province.
In fact, as everyone knows, BC has an over capacity of mills and a surplus of forest workers who have been thrown out of work since Gordon Campbell brought his travelling road show to Victoria.
Next question?
sanamark
3 years ago
Well, it's a forgone conclusion
It is certainly a forgone conclusion that Gordon Campbell could not possibly from another government. Perhaps Tyee posters should now start speculating on who will be in the next cabinet?
How about David Chudnovsky as education minister? He has only ever had the best interests of children in his career.
And Gregor Robertson as finance minister? Since he has a background as a small, such an appointment would allay (totally unfounded, of course) concerns in the business community.
Adrian Dix, health minister. He has diabetes, so he knows all about it.
Jagrup Brar, Children and Families.
Corky Evens, Forests of course.
Jenny Kwon must get Highways.
Bob Simpson, mines.
Any other suggestions? And where should the victory party be?
G West
3 years ago
You're a little late and light in your predictions
Chudnovsky isn't running again and Robertson has resigned as an MLA - Corky isn't running again either.
Perhaps we'll look to others who are a little more au courant than yourself for predictions.
Further, I'm not quite sure what Tyee posters you're talking about. The fact that Campbell has been a disaster is pretty widely shared. That his brand of corruption won't manage to deceive the electorate one more time is certainly devoutly to be wished. However, given the support and financial help of a compliant media (have you looked at the BC Liberal Party donors list lately) it is far from a sure thing that an ostensibly lack-luster leader of the NDP won't manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory once again.
In the end, as is usually the case, parties don’t win elections – incumbents lose them.
sanamark
3 years ago
Gee, I didn't know that
Really, we just have to look forward to the inevitable victory as a chance to undo the damage done. How about making corporations illegal and expropriating any business with more than 50 employees? Seems like a good start to me. A 90% income tax on all incomes higher than $50,000 a year. A doubling of the minimum wage to $16 an hour, an a further hike to $20 an hour in one year. Expropriate all liquid wealth more than $10,000 and then redistribute it equally to all citizens. Poverty would end overnight.
Mandatory unionization for all workplaces. All shop floor decisions must be approved by the workers. Kick all people out of homes worth $1,000,000, expropriate them and give them, for free, to first homeless and then working people.
While we are at it, remove all gasoline and diesel taxes since they hurt the poor. Stop selling electricity to the USA and give it to the workers for free.
With the correct vision, this could be reality a year from now.
sanamark
3 years ago
While we are at it
Install solar panels on all roofs. Abrogate every contract made by Gordon Campbell. Make public transportation free. Rip up the Canada line. Compensate the businesses on Cambie St. Replace all urban roads with street cars. Ban private cars in urban areas an while we are at it, build covered bike lanes so we can ride in the rain without getting wet. Settle with every First Nation but giving them what they want. Local control of all resources. All education free and university students get an equal amount to the $20 per hour minimum wage as a stipend. Make it illegal to sell anything that was made more than 50 km away. Put a 1000% tax on air travel and all travel must be approved by the government to save the environment.
Oh, I am all giddy and it is only a year away. Have I missed anything?
Frank
3 years ago
sanamark
You asked, and I pleasantly provided. If you don't like hearing about it then why did you ask?
As for a mortgage, everybody I know counts that as debt. If you want to go around telling people a mortgage is no longer debt because you say so then fine. I'm sure that will all go very well until someone approaches a bank and hits the reality wall.
The ability to reason? The ability to approach an issue with an open mind? The ability to have a conversation?
It will all come with maturity and in your case, a first mortgage.
sanamark
3 years ago
Banks...
Frank, of course all banks have to be nationalized. Then the capitalist roaders will no longer be able to keep working people under their thumbs.
Frank
3 years ago
sanamark
Do you lie awake at night wondering why you get banned for trolling?
sanamark
3 years ago
Frank....
Frank, why would you stand in the way of social progress? My points are all excellent and very possible.
G West
3 years ago
Frank
Apparently, despite his statements yesterday, sansamark DOES approve of the Campbell government and its record.
Not too surprising really - I had a feeling he was a supporter all along.
Like most Campbell supporters he can't point to anything but his own 'feelings' to counter the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Therefore, get ready to face another barrage of arbitrary and irrelevant grape shot. It may tickle a bit, but it'll do no permanent damage.
Frank
3 years ago
yawn
I'm sure they are sanamark, all really really excellent, now run outside and play, its sunny.
sanamark
3 years ago
Absolutely not!
Gordon Campbell is the worst political leader in human history. It is a 101% certainty that he will never get elected again. What is important now is undoing the damage he has done and making British Columbia a Worker's Paradise.
Carole James is listening to the working people in BC and is preparing to give us real prosperity.
clubofrome
3 years ago
Comparison?
Selective comparisons? I've always wondered why we compare ourselves with Australia when it comes to the medal count. I guess those that use this comparison really are couch journalists. By my count the Aussies have won 6 medals in total, for all time in the winter Olympics. Makes sense I guess if you look at the geography. We start at the 49th parallel, in the south perhaps Tasmanaia is comparable. The rest of that country is warm. It would be like the equivalent of Northern California to Panama. (I'm guessing) Not that I've checked but I'd assume NZ has more winter medals than Aus. We're a winter sports nation, that squeeze in a few summer sports in and around poor sleding season. So, some one add up all the medals winter and summer and tell me how far behind us the Aussies really are. Of course Australia will be well represented at 2010, we need them to operate the ski lifts...
DPL
3 years ago
AS is often the case the
AS is often the case the subject folks are suppodly writing about which was whiners and sports, in case you all forgot, has drifted way off the subject. Maybe The Tyee is short of news this week so is allowing the ramble.
no1important
3 years ago
Well only 3 gold so yet
Well only 3 gold so yet another disappointment. Sure we came in 2nd, 3rd, 4th but no one remembers anyone but first if that anyway.
On a general Overview of the Olympics i think the whole thing should be 'put to bed' aka canceled.
I don't think they are worth it and only benefit the few.
People complain about China and their human rights but Canada has a bad history too, Chinese head tax, sending away that boat full of refugees, First Nations, poor people, interned Japanese.. yet we are in Afghanistan and is not that the reason we boycotted 1980 Moscow games?
The Olympics when they were invented was noble but now with pro's, paid for medals, drug abuse it is not the same anymore and has not been.
It has become far too political (Starting with the 1936 Berlin games, maybe even before that even??) in my books and I would not lose any sleep if the Olympics were to fade away...
realisticman
3 years ago
Not Fading anytime soon
The claim came despite the estimated cost of the London games rising from 3.4 billion pounds when it won the bid in 2005 to 9.3 billion (11.9 billion euros, 17.8 billion dollars) now.
He said he "mourned the passing" of the Ancient Greek pankration event "whose chief exponent was Milo of Croton, whose signature performance involved carrying an ox the length of the stadium, killing it with his bare hands and then eating it on the same day."
He joked he was trying to persuade London Olympic chiefs to bring it back for 2012.
G West
3 years ago
Relying upon that reference - Mon dieu
To suggest that the buffoon Boris Johnson might actually be telling the truth about anything is about the funniest thing I've ever seen from you. When he isn't apologizing to the people of Papua New Guinea for "cannibalism and chief-killing" he's busy insulting every Muslim in Great Britain.
You might wish to check with Petronella Wyatt about the truthiness of this Englishman by convenience (how long since he gave up his US citizenship by the way?)
The Olympic farce will undoubtedly continue – sadly. It has nothing much to do with athletics and brotherhood – and everything to do with money making and marketing
I understand, however, that the Chinese merchants who sought to cash in handsomely on the latest edition of Rogge’s boondoggle are sorely disappointed at their empty tills after two weeks of restrained expectoration.
happy
3 years ago
C'mon West!
Backing up a little I'm amazed that a man with your astounding ability of recall forgot of two other Con policies that fit right into a NDP playbook:
Cancelling the sale of MacDonald Dettwiler to an American firm. You must recall the VERY lengthy post here condemning the Cons before the fact. No surprise there of course. Lots of that goes on here constantly.
Raising the Legal Age of Consent. Anybody with a young daughter appreciates that.
Selective memory perhaps?
G West
3 years ago
Nope
You're absolutely right - that makes two things pee wee has done since he came to power that I agree with.
Nothing selective about it at all - I just forgot.
I didn't agree with the legal age of consent thing (not so much because I disagree with the age part of it, but because, as I recall, there were a lot of really negative things that went along with it (stuff that would certainly be popular with pee wee's law n'order pals) - so I won't put that in the positive column either.
In any case, pretty much proves my point - it's a very short list.
I have to give you credit for mentioning the NDP though - do you get extra points for bringing up a federal party that has never come close to being in power?
realisticman
3 years ago
Wonders Never Cease
GWest
Truly a quote to remember.
As for Boris, well, it was before his time but they're only about 12 billion dollars over budget, so far.
You must hope they do bring back the pankration.
Frank
3 years ago
realisticman
Truly a quote to remember.
The one I remember is when you said "I was wrong" about New Zealand.
Oh, that's right, you didn't say it, you just quit the topic.
realisticman
3 years ago
The Dynamic Duo
Probably some silly interference, Frank, like work maybe. Did you think I sulked off with my marbles?
I see NZ is doing OK. Did they lower taxes? Was that it? I can't remember exactly but you seem to have a good memory.
G West
3 years ago
I should also have mentioned
Unlike those who just 'leave' when discussion 'goes' a certain way I also wrote positively about the MacDonald Dettwiler decision when pee wee's government nixed the sale.
As I said, that's two positive things, things a Paul Martin majority government probably wouldn't have done (in a minority position, who knows?). But then, as you well know, I consider the Liberals and the Conservatives to be manifestations of the self-same disease so that's not surprising.
I think that amounts to fulsome praise for a lackluster performance and probably more than this government deserves.
But, you have to work with the material available.
As for Boris, do you think he finally knows the difference between rugby and football?
The New Zealand debate with Frank was a lot more fundamental than that by the way.