Payoff

Mulroney will be "pilloried". But as a self-confessed "poor person", just trying to provide for his family, he will accept a hansome payoff for "taking the bullet".

We the lay public would like to see corrupt leaders go to jail, but tht will never happen, as our successive PM's tend to protect one another, as it could well their turn at one time or another. I mean, look how quickly Chretien wrote that 2 mil cheque to Lyin' Bryan.........

What makes me laugh is the

What makes me laugh is the portrait of Lyin'Brian at the top.

I could have made a fortune painting the portraits of these characters, using a polite expression describing them, but just couldn't do it and live with myself.

So I became a cabinetmaker and in the years I've spent in their company, offices and homes, designing and making furniture for them, I remained poor, but never regretted it for a single minute.

Of course, I couldn't have done it without a marvelous life partner, who supported me all the way.

Now I paint pretty girls and give them the paintings to make them happy, which makes us also happy.

If I'd had to paint the portraits of these Mulroney like characters, they would all have turned out showing what they really are.

Ed Deak.

How about........

The death penalty for corrupt politicians? Nope it will never happen, as no one will run for politics.

But really, it is my belief that one corrupt politician is as evil as 100 drug dealers; why, you ask? Simple, a drug dealer breaks the law. A corrupt politician destroys the fabric of our society. That we refuse to deal with the political 'corruption' issue, means that Canada's fabric of society is equally corrupt.

Time to buy a gun I guess and form a militia, someone got to clean up the mess.

The death penalty is too

The death penalty is too easy on them. Make them sit in jails for the rest of their lives. And I mean "sit in jails" ,not in some resorts called jails.

I have seen fascism, nazism and communism and could never have imagined the corruption that goes on now with big business owned governments, all over the world.

It is no better in Europe, also slowly sinking back into a corporate dictatorship, buried under propaganda, brainwashing in universities, and the pollution and garbage of "wealth creation".

Far worse than some individual crooks pocketing monies.

Ed Deak.

I always knew that there was

I always knew that there was a direct line between Pee Wee Harper and lyin' Brian. Harper takes direction from his ol' mentor really well and that was more than evident when he won the election just shy of 2 years ago; it only took him a couple of weeks to become arrogant. It took the Liberals at least a couple of years. When Pee Wee says he didn't know about any letter from Schreiber to him is just a bold face lie or someone in the Prime Ministers office is hiding it. If one understands how the Prime ministers office receives and processes the PM's mail then it's the first scenerio or the second. It seems as if our political leaders are like athletes on steroids; if you're asked just deny, deny and then deny some more. Then when your caught just lie, lie then lie some more.

exposing the core corruption in Canada is a good idea

as I've noted in other places cops and prosecutors make deals with crooks all the time to get info on other crooks so no biggee to getting Schreiber to testify

Canada and the RCMP are thoroughly corrupt, imo and basically the RCMP brass is part of the Conservative Party of Canada - yay prohibition, kill cannabis users families yay! yay unaccountable power - yay!

I'm looking forward to the Ethics Committee - I saw the live coverage last week and it is abundantly clear the Cons are trying to prevent Canadians knowing what Schreiber knows.

May the CPC experience the same fate as their pal Mulroney - political extinction.

Perspective... yes please!!!

Daveyy... I don't hate Brian Mulroney, but I hate what he does. And the $300,000 amount is irrelevant. What is crucially important for us to be concerned about is that decisions of our government, which represents you and me and our tax dollars, are made on the basis of good value and merit, and not by the quantity of $100 bills that are stuffed into the back pockets of our politicians.
If you are happy about back room bribery being part of our appropriations policy, then go on voting for your tweedle-dee Conservatives or your tweedle-dum Liberals.
I am not happy with this, so Jumpin Jack is for me.
And that is perspective!

Good questions.

Excellent article Rafe. My worry is that the cost of this whole exercise will be so extreme that we may wonder whether knowing for a fact that which most intelligent people suspected is worth the price. How much faith can we have that Harper will do anything that might expose the underside of Reform/Conservative cronyism.

When Mulroney gets three standing ovations from his business cronies while he is under this cloud there is cause to be concerned about the ethics that govern people in high places.

Nightbloom's memory of politicians who have been pilloried is very selective. Many have been pilloried for a lot less than Mulroney. Rafe asks some good questions

Brain, that was a fantastic comment

on Nightbloom's weird minimalizing. I was going to write the same stuff. Taking three hundred grand in a paper bag in a hotel room is enough in itself for Mulroney's reputation to be thoroughly besmudged. The guy's a creep, let's face it. There are no reputable reasons for taking this kind of loot in cash, 'nevermind' in a hotel room. These people never heard of cheques?

How come you don't know that any PM who takes money like this deserves to be investigated, Nightbloom?

I'd like to know why the tax people accepted Mulroney's explanation of what the money was for when he finally got around to paying income tax on it.

Didn't Mulroney at one time tell somebody in the media that the money was to be used to open a pizza joint? Or did I just imagine that?

I'd say we should put Mulroney in jail if he's been lying to federal agencies even if the money wasn't bribe money.

And lets's take back the 2.1 mil, eh. I always figured Rock and Chretien gave up suspiciously easily on that one, too, and handed over the 2.1 to lyin' Brian.

And yeah, as Rafe asked, how come Mulroney doesn't want to sue the Fifth Estate? I saw the show and if they're wrong, they've definitely libelled Mulroney.

Hey, maybe Mulroney could give the money back to the feds, then sue the Fifth Estate for the same amount. Just a thought!

Rafe, on Bill Borings' show.........

Wow, on Bill Boring's CORUS show (guest hosted by Micheal Smythe this week) the two pundits, Tielman and the 'other' guy, including Smythe pooh-poohed the whole Mulroney - Schreiber story. Old news!

"Nothing too it", was the refrain. "Karl-Heinz Schreiber is not telling the truth" and "he's making these accusations to stay in the country".

No mention of Stevie Cameron, rather the "Globe and Mail and the CBC is covering this very old news story."

It makes me sick that the elites in the media are trying desperately to discredit the story. Oh I know, Mulroney eventually told Revenue Canada about the money, so it isn't criminal. My god, do they think we are idiots.

The Taser death at YVR last month has awoken a very nasty population that now is beginning to see that this Country, province, cities are being ruled by some of the most incompetent, yet evil people there is. I wonder if the population will go back to its slumbering or come full awake, demanding justice for the innocent and a reckoning with the guilty.

Time will tell.

The CBC had a article on

The CBC had a article on last evening with the clip from BrianM that he hardly didn't know Schreiber?" Then they ran some documents saying the opposite. I immedialty reminded me of Garry Collins Finance Minnister around the ledgislature raid. who Basi, I hardly know the guy follwed by a picture of Collins and Basi shuffling down the halltogether. Basi's deskt was in Collin's office. why do we keep supporting folks who fib as required?

Typical Con Hypocrisy

Right Daveyy - and if tomorrow some similar evidence was forthcoming with regards to Chretien while he was in office, you and your ilk would be demanding that Harper spend whatever it takes to put the crooks behind bars.

Sure, we know that Mulroney

Sure, we know that Mulroney took $300,000 and EDITED FOR LEGAL CONCERNS. -- TYEE MODERATOR about his association with Schreiber. Those items may not make it worthwhile to pursue the question but the questions which really need an answer are two asked by Grumpy.
Why did Chretien authorize the 2.1 million payout and what was the involvement of the Liberal government of the day?
Let us all hope that only a sensible course of action dictated the actions of the Liberal government of that day.

Perspective please???

So it's Mulroney haters now is it. I think of it more as haters of those that lie, cheat and steal while holding the highest office in the land. As far as all aflutter over 300k and some bizarre link to the NDP, how 'bout that deck of Glen Clark's? Now there's a capital offence for you.

Quote:It's not hard to

Fair enough. I see them doing to same thing to Stephane Dion now too...a perfectly fine Steady Eddy who's loathed because he had the temerity to remind Quebeckers (over and over again) that they get more out of Confederation than they put into it.

Maybe we should pay our Prime Ministers more. Or maybe I'm just jaded. 300K isn't that much....talk about a modest Canadian....If he were a former Italian P.M. the figure would be several times higher.

They're all doing it, one way or another. The only difference is that this one's a conservative.

Did anyone else listen to

Did anyone else listen to Cross Country Checkup on (our beloved) CBC yesterday? It was very telling, I thought, as to how far we have fallen. Simply astounding listening to the mental gymnastics, the apologisms, the apathy.

Why are we so unable, generally, to call a spade a spade? How do we let the incessant corruption of the elite continue year after year, generation after generation? I can see it now, I'm gonna die and nothing will have changed and the streets will be filled with the poor and homeless.

[EDITED FOR LEGAL CONCERNS. -EDITOR.]

Standing ovation.

Why Isn't Corruption........

....treated as treason when it is committed by public figures?

Spend the money The gov has buckets of it.

Excellent points all! Lyin' Brian's got some 'splaining to do, thats for sure.

There are all of these signs of corruption most of which has never been investigated, we have an RCMP which is itself tainted.

Yes we do need a full open and thorough investigation of this. After which the investigative group can carry on with the investigation of Premier Gordoccio's sellout of the publicly owned BC Rail to his buddy.

one other thing

The money should be paid back and I expect jail sentences for the guilty.

graft

If I wasn't so afraid of Global Warming I'd be worried about all the corruption and graft behind the scenes.

As it is, I feel like I'm watching a horse race down the stretch to the goal of seeing who will go over the cliff first, like a bunch of lemmings hurling themselves into perdition.

Is there really no one out there who cares enough about the country and the public to actually do something unselfish?

P.S. "Aspirational" goals are as unsubstantial as smoke rings and just as effective at holding the blower responsible for anything.

Corruption

One can measure severity of corruption in dollars and cents. Trudeau and Liberals purchased Dutch Petrofina shares without dividends worth billions of dollars. Auditor General, Kenneth Dye tried to get records of Cabinet Meetings but was unsuccessful to find out whether Cabinet knew anything about those dividends. Petro Canada was created as a Socialist business, to be privatised as Government should not be pumping gas.
Shady hotel business of Chretien with loans and firing of the honest directors at the cost of 4.5 million dollars was similar to mafia dealings not that of the statesman.
[EDITED FOR LEGAL CONCERNS. -EDITOR.] so called sponsorship scandal, makes Malroney look like a kid stealing candy in a store. Martin's shipping company does not look good when examined. When Dion cries "catch the thief" he may open the can of worms, he wish he did not.
Allegations of involvement of Maurice Strong and other Canadian Privy Council in planning and execution of WTC attack and carbon credits theft could be found on [url=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawkscafe/
] When that matter developes [ALLEGED] petty theft of former Prime Minister, would not even make page 16 news.

Latarnik

I think that the ongoing payout to Mulroney by big business is what sets him apart. As the Prime Minister who stacked the Senate by creating more seats to get the neoconservative agenda through, Mulroney seems to have been rewarded for his deeds over and over again by being given high-paying directorships on over 30 large corporations. The money keeps rolling in... $300,000 was chicken feed for him - yet, he couldn't resist a bag full of cash.

Perhaps this is like Capone: can't be tried for being a gangster (or selling out his country) but he can get it for income tax evasion or something similar.

Tyee Intercom......

I mean Lyin' Brian committed "petty theft" and a more important issue is Maurice Strong and the Privy Council bringing down the World Trade Towers?????? OK Mr. Lats, how come Maurice Strong's passport wasn't found INTACT on top of the rubble right after the towers collapsed - gotcha huh?

I've accepted the fact that aliens have absconded with Rex Murphy's brain and that Canned Waste has reduced the average Canadian to one notch above drooling, but Latarnik really colonizes new ground in whackoVille.

All these apologists for Lyin' Brian and Peevy Stevie who think this is much ado about nothing and Mr. Scrieber should be deported post haste are a laugh riot. You know for a fact that if he had the LEAST amount of dirt of say Jean Chretien, he would arrive in Europe (if he ever did arrive there) with severe writer's cramp and carpel tunnel syndrome from typing and signing statements 24/7 in perpetuity. I plan to sue the Tyee at the Hague for exposing my conciousness to the comments of Mr. Latarnik - which I'm sure qualifies as torture.

grumpy:
Not trying to be picky but in this sentence above:

perhaps you intended to use the word ordure, which is so appropriate as it means - excrement or something that is morally degrading.

Quote:....treated as treason

Treason is a special category. This isn't treason, irrespective of the rhetorical temptations of the word. This is just garden variety corruption. Sorry to disappoint.

I guess this wouldn't really fit into the category of "white collar crime" although I imagine it shares the same psychology and motivations - i.e. no sense of wrongdoing or guilt, no "victims"...except the public trust in the event of exposure. I guess that's why Haper felt to had to "protect the office of Prime Minister".

Too Lenient on the Little Guy

Hey there elbillug, you don't want them little "average joes" starting to think they can get away with stuff too, do you?

No exzemption for little guys - scam a dime, do some time!

Ex-PM's, however, especially when they are the mentor and hero of the current sitting PM. The sky is the limit with these guys, and the only thing a "real" Canadian should ask is "do you need more Mr. Mulroney?" Oh yeah, and btw "Brian, would you like fries with that?"

Now that I think of it, what better use for the Canadian "surplus" than to assuage Mr. Mulroney's hurt feelings?

nightbloom

Please note first definition of TREASON.
TREASON
1 : the betrayal of a trust : treachery

2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

Merriam-Webster....

I think Mulroney qualifies very nicely under the first meaning of the word.

Added to that is the charge of serial dissembling and, not hard to imagine, un-apprehended perjury as well as receiving an unearned benefit from the state.

Oh I think he fits very nicely!

mulroney

And then there was the fact that Mr Mulroney
was chosen by former US Vice-President Dan Quayle to become Air Canada's President if Cerebus had been successful in taking over the company.
Air Canada...Mulroney..Airbus...Schreiver...Cerebus..Something smells and it aint in Denmark.

The Brian Mulroney “Cash Grab” Scandal

The Brian Mulroney “Cash Grab” scandal is the worst Canadian political scandal ever, in that a two term Prime Minister, and Order of Canada recipient is now by his own words, a proven liar. Not a little lie either. But a big one that provided him with a non-taxable, $2,100,000. cash reward from the Government of Canada. It is very ironic that Brian Mulroney won the political debate and the subsequent landslide election in September 1985 against the then Liberal leader, John Turner, by uttering the following statement, "You had an option, sir. You could have done better." The exchange led most papers the next day, with most of them paraphrasing Mulroney's counterattack as "You had an option, sir--you could have said 'no.'". This is exactly what Brian Mulroney should have said to Karlheinz Schreiber. He would today have his honour and his impressive record intact. Now his family’s name is forever tarnished, over what in hindsight was a trivial $300,000. to a man who earns millions per year. But the worst effect is the damage done to Canada’s political system and to all of the thousands of honourable people who daily manage our mostly world class political system. Brian if you want to truly apologize to Canada and all Canadians, you can start to redeem your honour and your family name by, giving back the $2,100,000. plus interest to the Government of Canada and returning the $300,000. plus interest in trust to Karlheinz Schrieber to be held by the Government of Canada. Then you should humbly request that you keep your Order of Canada. Now that would be the start of redemption while adding a positive gesture of contrition. That is what an honorable man would do.

G West

The committee has obtained the 'Speaker's' warrant.

graft

Woody - that's right, Milliken issued the warrant calling for Schreiber's immediate appearance before the parliamentary committee. And to show the importance of his action, it should be noted that this is the first time since 1913 the Speaker has exercised this right.

But wait, isn't Milliken a - horror of horrors - Liberal?

Rob Nicholson is quite right is his avowal of powerlessness in this case. He may be a Minister of the Crown, but he can't make a move until Steve says so, and let's go of the leash.

Nightbloom

From G.West post:
2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family
-- Merriam-Webster

But scamming the treasury by a public figure IS treasonous, because it goes toward compromising the security, safety, and well-being of the nation.

I said perspective not ignorance

@elbellilug

I never said ignore the whole thing, I am saying that it will be impossible to prove any Mulroney wrongdoing based only on the testimony of KHS. Reading some of the reactions on this blog, I don't see many who believe in the presumption of innocence. We have gone from accepting 300k payment for reasons as yet unknown, to state treason without the benefit of any kind of due process.

May I remind readers of the House committee on the sponsorship scandal. That committee gave a hero's welcome to one Myriam Bédard, former olympic medalist and Via Rail employee. She went on at lengths about a scandal inside the Via marketing dept. linked to sponsorship. When the then president of Via stated that the lady appeared a little mixed up, he was summarily fired by PM Martin. Two years later, Ms Bédard faces a jail term and was, as it turns out, more than "a little mixed up". The government of Canada and Via Rail have been ordered to pay Mr. Pelletier dammages of $ 350 000 for the cavalier way he was dismissed.

House committees are not the place for finding guilt or innocence, whatever you may think of Brian Mulroney. They are about politicians looking to score political points. The NDP in this case comes across as particularly scheming.

To those who claim to be defending democracy by finding Mulroney guilty of treason without any due process, your outrage is one sided. Democracy demands due process. Schreiber has had due process, his deportation case has dragged on for eight years and went before the Supreme court twice. He has tacitly admitted perjury and is threatening the government of Canada.

Again, whatever pre-conceived ideas one may have of Mulroney, finding him guilty of anything in front of a House committee with only one witness of dubious credibilty is a formula for a three ring circus and most probably a complete waste of taxpayers money. Hence my call for a little perspective.

Daveyy

When one voluntarily accepts the public spotlight, one must recognize the practical necessity of being seen to be doing the right thing, regardless of one's actual actions. Mr. Mulroney was seen to be involved in an act that would put most of us in jail (or under the taxman spotlight - virtually the same thing), and his terms of office did not give him the right to be "above" the rest of us............

Besides, using a public office to solicit private gain IS a conflict of interest.

BTW, Mulroney campaigned on an anti-free trade soapbox, which puts his word in some disrepute.

Daveyy

You seem to have a particularly selective memory.

If there were no evidence (evidence which has been in the public sphere for years) that Brian Mulroney has been lying through his teeth on this issue you might have a point.

There is, on the contrary, exactly the opposite.

The former Prime Minister has made, in the past 30 days, at least three public statements about wanting to have a public airing of these matters. Which airing is impossible without Schreiber's presence - which you well know.

I'd have thought that Brian's supporters would be the last ones anxious to send Schreiber to Germany for any reason simply because he's told them (particularly at that StFx bun toss in Toronto) that he's so anxious to fight this out for the honour and reputation of his family.

I think it's hard to be on both sides of this issue and that's exactly what Pee Wee is trying to do. He should get with the program and stand up for openness and justice.

That's the kind of perspective I'd expect from a real Prime Minister and not just another idle stuffed shirt: Get it out in the open and let the chips fall where they may.

As to the other point - comparing the sponsorship scandal to Mulroney's years in power...I don't think that holds water either. People have very short memories. I'm no supporter to Paul Martin or Jean Chretien; but, Brian Mulroney's administration was so thoroughly larded with pork and payola that it deserves comparison with that of Sir John A and the CPR scandal.

That's a non-starter.

Its still: "he said, I said"

"People have very short memories. "

I'm mot comparing Mulroney's years in power to the sponsorship scandal, I'm comparing house of commons committees and using the Bédard case to illustrate just how these committees are platforms for politicians to score points, whether that happens to accord with the truth or not.

"Mr. Mulroney was seen to be involved in an act that would put most of us in jail "

Let me make a wild guess on this one: Mulroney and Schreiber's versions of the cash payments will be at opposite ends of the morality scale. OK, then what? The RCMP spent years and years investigating and came up short, are they going to put Mulroney away on the sole testimony of Screiber, or will Screiber refuse to testify unless guaranteed residence in Canada and thus avoid jail in Germany.

In my book this is not a "slam dunk" case of treason, just a recipe for a three ring political circus. After we the taxpayers spend untold millions, we will still be back to square one.

No one's saying it is - a slam-dunk

The point, daveyy, is that Mulroney himself has called for a fully-open public inquiry into all aspects of his behavior...remember?

Perhaps you forgot this:

The reason(s), might I be so bold to suggest, that the RCMP came up cold in their investigation and the government was sued (and subsequently paid off) is that Mr Mulroney is a liar.

It was suspect all through his administration and it's absolutely obvious now.

He's hoping, either that his close personal friend Stephen will see that Schreiber never gets his day in court...or...that his legendary gift of the gab and Irish charm will not desert him one more time.

I think his skein of blarney has run out and I don't care how the evidence comes out - in an inquiry - or before one of the few parliamentary committees that hasn't already been castrated by Stephen Harper.

a stalling tactic

Conservative MPs, should be very concerned for their political futures, due to what I perceive, as a stalling tactic by their leader and the Justice minister. These guys are fooling no one, other than the ones who wish to fooled. If one gets to close to a skunk, it becomes difficult to differentiate which is the real skunk.

quote: After we the taxpayers spend untold millions,

QUOTE: After we the taxpayers spend untold millions, we will still be back to square one.

Only if we don't open up our EYES.. Davey.
and besides.., as to your comments on the Bédard case and how the house committee dealt with this particular case..,

Who said DEMOCRACY was nice and neat. ( it reflects human nature doesn't it?..).. however, to quote one great poet of ours.., ( it is the best of the worst and the worst of the best )..,

Politics as you bemoan it , is the process by which the cleavages of forces and vested interests in our country.., GET TO BATTLE for the hearts and the minds of the electorate.., ( and though a blood sport at best .., is nevertheless effective .., as both elected and opposition battle it out in the political arena of the nation... PARLIAMENT!..

Pure and simple, it is ingenious in it's deviousness and yet produces consequential outcomes.. such as the INFORMATION and MEDIA ( fourth estate role ) of bringing to the public KNOWLEDGE of the going's on in that particular .., environment .. THREE RING CIRCUS it might seem to be at times.., but nevertheless our- CITIZENS - boxing ring.. ( through which , we inherit a VOICE and a SAY.., ( translated in opinions we make.., which we then actualise by voting , come VOTING DAY*..

THE POLITICAL PROCESS WE'VE GIVEN TO OURSELVES IS BY A MIRROR OF HUMAN NATURE , that is..,

With the mechanism of parliament having stood the test of time , trial and tribulations.., we have in our system of democracy a way to ...AIR OUR LAUNDRY.., be they... in whatever condition they may be..,

Thus, the process to get this sordid mess out in the open is becoming vital to our .. '' sense of place'', '' sense of belonging ''and SENSE OF IDENTITY itself.., in other words to our sense of who we are and what we stand for..

it all boils down to transparency and a political/judicial process being not only seen to be open, but a judicial and governance system that is above all.. , cognisant to whom it is a servant.., and to whom it owes it's existence to:.. THE PEOPLE OF CANADA., no less.

Village.

Only if we don't open up our EYES

Village,

Thanks for the philosophy/political science 101 short course. You could apply your logic to parliament taking a year to debate the colour of the carpet in the foyer. As long as its transparent, the process can needlessly bog down the important work of running a large country.

So when Schreiber says black and Mulroney says white, we open our eyes and then what? There is no sense of proportion, no perspective, all I read here is Mulroney has to be guilty of something, so lets just keep at this indefinitely until we can prove his culpability. You can call it democracy if you like, I prefer to call it an expensive witch hunt.

Oh I don't think so daveyy

And you're the only one suggesting this will go on indefinitely too.

How come?

Where's the perspective in that point of view?

Let's just assume that Brian has to end up paying back the two million dollars he's been paid out of the federal treasury...I think that may go some way to assuaging my concerns about badly-spent tax dollars.

You may not be aware of it, but your friend Karlheinz is also suing the former PM for the $300 G he gave him too.

We've been sweeping stuff under the carpet for too long in this country - it's time for a good airing. I'd also like Brian to explain his behavior relative to Air India and the actions of former RCMP commissioner Norman Inkster too - aren't you the least bit curious?
Somehow your mention of the details surrounding the sponsorship scandal leaves me with a strong suspicion that your attitude would be different if BM had been a Liberal PM.

Me, I have no boats in either harbor – I just want the people running my country to behave ethically and honestly and openly in everything that do.

I know that’s naïve and foolish, but somehow, every chance I see to put a little pressure on any of these guys seems like a good thing to me.

'Witch' hunts, as you put it, may be a little expensive - doing nothing is far more costly though.

Welcome to Reality!

It's nice to see some folks drawing some lines around Davy boy's fantasy of ongoing fantasies. One minor advantage of a FULL inquiry is that every minute that all these guys spend investigating each other is one less minute they have to devote to their primary objective - screwing us, the bent over Canadian taxpayers and citizens.

A little more than he said, Davey said

What part of cash (with no invoices and no taxes paid) seems like business as usual to you, Davey or are you in a business where that is the standard OP.

Already Brian has effectively admitted to perjury. Remember when he was taking us innocent taxpayers to the cleaners for over 2 mil, for besmirching his already worthless (remember what happened to the REAL Progressive Conservative Party, thanks to Brian), he didn't even KNOW Karlheinz, may have had a coffee with him....

It seems to me that just in his public rallies recently he has admitted to much more than that, and I don't hear any denials about Karlheinz visiting Harrington Lake. Do sitting PMs entertain guests there that they don't even know? Think of the security issues, even pre-9/11. Are you getting bags of money from Lyin' Brian, Davey? Just askin'

It's all important

as to tom above who said:

When you are a money grubbing greed monger with that world view, every piddly $300,000 counts. You don't become a millionaire or a billionaire by not sweating the small stuff.

Think of poor Bill Gates if you were tempted to pirate a shred of his bloated software. Do you think he would care? But Bill does often give deals to educational institutions, otherwise why would graduates ever want to use the stuff?

QUOTE: ''As long as its transparent.........

As long as its transparent, the process can needlessly bog down the important work of running a large country.

So let's think about this... as per your assertion that what is most important is.. and I quote: THE IMPORTANT WORK OF RUNNING A LARGE COUNTRY*..

Me thinks that keeping all of us CITIZENS in the loop , so they say.., so that we can make an educated and well thought out OPINION of the LEADERS we've elected goes to the very core of the important work you hint at....,, for without a GOVERNANCE MODEL that respects what citizens deem to be representative of their VALUES...then you have nothing my friend..*

That's what a country is.., the aggregate sum total ( and representation of those aggregate VALUES ) of the engaged CITIZENRY that feels and cares enough about their country to be involved and .. VOTING comes election time. I would say that if you do not have an open and accountable system of government then.. you have zilch.. nada, zero! ...

How much ''bottom line'' clearer can this be.., ?

ACCOUNTING.. accountability.. very similar for a good reason.., though one deals with quantifiable material things.., and the other deals with..., the THINKING and the bonds that UNITE..which invariably makes a country what it is.. ( and eventually will also determine the direction , charting the course of it's future destinations..)..

Thus , in this particular case Daveyy.. THERE IS AMPLE EVIDENCE or lack thereof to justify the call for a full public inquiry.. , on this subject matter..,

Pure and simple.., ( and since I have no ties with any political parties of this country - or others for that matter.. - I would like you to fully grasp the INTENTION of MY INTERVENTIONS.. as a CITIZEN who is troubled by the fog that surrounds many issues of this land.., these days..

And I thank the internet and the WWW .. for the new frontier that CITIZEN JOURNALISM offers up to the caring and thinking masses of this world..*..

Could you expand on why you feel that this should be simply swept under some parliamentary carpet.., ( of whatever colour you wish to pick.)., I will not quibble with the colour.., it's your LOGIC that I question..

Please explain further
Village.

graft and corruption

G West mentions the former Prime Minister by his initials, "BM."

Now do your best to follow along... Brian was a friend of Nfld.'s premier, Frank Moores, about the same time as Brian was also doing business with Schreiber quietly as a lobbyist for the Air Bus, shilling for new airplanes for Air Canada. Nothing illegal here. As yet.

When a politician takes under-the-table money for using influence to tip a government contract a certain way, that's graft. When the politician does not achieve the paid-for end, that's corruption.

It becomes criminal when accusations are made, but a good lawyer can always find some kind of a needle-in-a-haystack. The Canadian people paid out more than two million dollars to assuage hurt feelings when it turned out that the initials, "BM,"
could also apply to Frank Moores' wife, as well as to Brian Mulroney, when they turned up on incriminating evidence, though Mrs. Moores was not known as an entrepeneur.

Watch for those initials to play an important part of any inquiry coming up. They closed down an investigation before. They may do it again.

On the money!

You are sharingisgood, as they say, on the money! There is no politician that has more directorships for his "jobs well done" than Lyin' Brian. His directorships just keep on mysteriously... rollin' in.

Personally, it shouldn't take much in the way of smarts to follow the paper trail on that one in terms of how many times Mulroney has been on the take, and for what. But since, as they say, corporate shares given to directors for such jobs well done are declared as earnings, its all nice and legal like... whalla! No bribe here! Taxes have been paid...

The saddest part of all this is that a directorship offered for decisions made by members of parliment given after they are out of office, is still a bribe... even though it is presently still legal.

Note that David Emerson has 7 directorships and his number, especially as appointed minister of Trade under Harper, will most definitely swell... but Lyin' Brian is still and likely will be for all time, the directorship king.

Daveyy... do you really still wanna defend the obvious crooked liar in question?

Truman: It does feel good to be on the same side as an excellent debater such as yourself!

Oh he's done okay, Brian has

You might want to download the following:
http://www.agribusinessaccountability.org/pdfs/182_ADM%20Price%20Fixer%20to%20the%20World.pdf

And look at how much Bri received as a director and fixer at Archer Daniels Midland...while you're reading up on how big agribusiness fixes the prices the rest of us pay for the commodities we need.

The title of the paper is: Archer Daniels Midland: Price Fixer to the World

Brian and Archer Daniels Midland

The Right Honorable M. Brian Mulroney

* News

Director/Chairman of the Board

Quebecor World Incorporated (IQW)

Age: 67

Industry: Professional Services

Board Afflilations: Hicks Acquisition Company I, Incorporated (TOH), Wyndham Worldwide Corporation (WYN), Archer Daniels Midland Company (ADM), The Blackstone Group L.P. (BX)

Overview

The Right Honourable Brian Mulroney, 67, has served as a director since our separation from Cendant in July 2006. Mr. Mulroney was a Cendant director from December 1997 until the completion of Cendant's separation plan in August 2006. Mr. Mulroney was Prime Minister of Canada from 1984 to 1993 and is currently Senior Partner in the Montreal-based law firm, Ogilvy Renault. Mr. Mulroney is a director of the following public companies: Archer Daniels Midland Company Inc., Barrick Gold Corporation, Independent News and Media, PLC and Quebecor, Inc. (including its subsidiary, Quebecor World Inc.). Mr. Mulroney was a director of HFS from April 1997 until December 1997.

ADM gross operating profit for the last quarter of 2006 was $1.08 Billion (US)

ADM and the law

It's not just price fixing that ADM has been sued for either. The company has quite a tradition of not telling the truth and shutting people up as well.

Please note the former PM's name in the list of defendants as well as the plantiff's statement of claim:
http://lw.bna.com/lw/19971014/14638.htm

Bio at Ogilvy Renault

He also serves as Chairman of the Board of Quebecor World Inc., Chairman of Forbes International and Chairman of the International Advisory Boards of Barrick Gold Corporation and Independent News and Media, PLC.

Mr. Mulroney serves as Chairman and a director of Persona Communications, Inc., and as a director of Quebecor Media and Said Holdings Limited, all privately held companies.

He is also a member of the International Advisory Councils of the China International Trust and Investment Corporation, JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Lion Capital LLP.

You really think he 'needed' that $300G on the QT?

Wow, G! Thats quite the link!

Among some excerpts from your link is this one:

In September 1995, Mulroney said “ADM is the cleanest company in America.” Mulroney
coordinated ADM’s guilty plea. The greatest concession was immunity of the HFCS price fixing allegations. - G's link

Interesting to note, if there are readers with a memory of what ADM is most noted for in the corporate world, ADM holds the largest antitrust violations and lawsuit settlements of the last century in both Canada and the U.S. in corporate history.

After reading this link (and its quite long and exhausting) there is no question in my mind that Mulroney participated in ADM's corporate price fixing in Lysine, Citric Acid and refined Corn products. Its hard to imagine an ADM board member not being corrupt in this one.

ADM is, in other words, one of the most corrupt corporations in food manufacturing history, with Andreas, former chairman and CEO minding the helm and Brian Mulroney being one of Andreas' "best friends" throughout.

I found the link to be rather disturbing to find that Brian Mulroney was a board director of ADM through through one of the worst corporate scandals in North American history and a mere decade later, the average Canadian has allowed Mulroney's popularity to rise simeotaniously with the rise of the Conservative party itself.

I mean... I knew Mulroney was dirty as a politician and on the take, but I didn't realize just how much of a crook he really is until now.

Thanks for the link and historical reminder of just how corrupt Mulroney really is, G. Wets my appetite before looking into his other directorships and what dirt they have to offer...

I'll see your commission of inquiry and raise you a royal commis

"Daveyy... do you really still wanna defend the obvious crooked liar in question?"

So, because this blog is populated by generic Mulroney haters, for all the things he has done wrong for Canada while PM and for being a business big shot, lets spend another $ 10 Million chasing after the $2 M we paid him and lets help Schreiber get his $300k back.

You can rip your shirts off your backs all you want, you can criticize Mulroney's business career, you can point to his failings, none of that will get any of that money back. You don't seem to get it, I'm not defending Mulroney, I'm saying that if the case is based solely on Schreiber's testimony, we are collectively throwing good money after bad, and the only reason to do so, if I distill most of the above comments correctly, would be because Mulroney has such a large anti-fan club of people who hate him so much, they are willing to spend lots of money in the hopes that they will be vindicated in their prejudices.

Fine, go ahead, lets make it a Royal commission while were at it. But when all is said and done, and it comes down to BM's word against KS's, the Mulroney haters will believe KS and the courts will not convict.
And I hope nobody gets upset when I say " I told you so" Does nobody remember that the RCMP spent several years and untold millions investigating and they came up short. But hey, lets do it all over again because of one man's finger pointing, a man awaiting deportation and jail in Germany, an self-avowed perjurer. In the justice system, thats what they call a weak case.

Daveyy

I haven't even started to list what Mulroney was up to while he was Prime Minister...that's another whole sack of hammerheads.

Are you sure you want to get into that?

Tangential point to note,

Tangential point to note, Rafe:

Teddy bear teacher appears in court as Islamic fanatics demand execution
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23423342-details/Teddy+bear+teacher+appears+in+court+as+Islamic+fanatics+demand+execution/article.do

How much longer is this going to go on? Where's Dawkins' now? Oh right, he's bizzy haranguing the grannies in the local Catholic Knitting Club. Because those old ladies are just as bad as the Taliban, when you get right down to it...

Interesting rebuttal

Since every MP and government staffer is already on a salary anyways... er... ah... why not, Daveyy? Have these guys got anything better to do? They are getting paid anyways, after all.

And yes, G, your point is quite noted. Of interest to me back in the day was his nudge to spend 11.7 billion on the military to assist in GWB seniors first invasion of Iraq in 91'. Betcha lots of kickbacks to the Republicans/Con's from defence contractors were in order for that one. By the way, 11.7 billion dollar decisions far out weigh the paltry few million or so spent on Mulroney's trial... if you get my drift, Daveyy. After all, little spending spree's like this is what led to the Cons 230 billion in added federal debt in their tenure in government and forcing a GST introduction.

In retrospect, this years 10 billion being applied to the debt covers Mulroney's participation in the Iraq war... without interest. So while a few million bucks seems mis-spent to some in bringing Mulroney to trial, the dividends with the education and increased awareness for the taxpayers and voters of this country might very well lead to the avoidance of pure piss poor fiscal management at the highest levels of government... especially so, for self interested reasons.

In other words, bringing Mulroney to trial is money well spent. And the question you should be asking... Daveyy... is that if Mulroney is indited due to the testimony given by Shreiber, what will the fallout be for our current privatizing, deregulating, Canadian selloff to U.S. multinational's, minority government we have now? Seriously, if Canadian's really did wanna go on a major witchhunt with Mulroney, where should they start? Airbus? Air Canada? Lying under oath? Archer Daniels Midland? Quebecor? Barrick Gold? Campaign contributions?

Cont.

And you wanna know what really makes me laugh... is in the final hours of the FTA agreement, Mulroney tried to include Canadian banks in the agreement. It would have effectively deregulated the entire Canadian banking industry and opened the door for the international takeover of Canada's chartered banks. It didn't happen due to the fact that the business community in Canada (as well as the polls) revolted against him with quick speed and Mulroney was forced to dropped it just as quickly. This year, Mulroney was on record for saying that it would be a serious mistake for Canada to do it... and thats quite a laugh considering he tried to introduce it in the last seconds leading up to the agreement.

Do you have any idea at all, Daveyy, what the consequences of this would have been to Canada's economic sovereignty and ability to claw back from Canada's staggering federal debt load?

There are reasons why Mulroney anti fan clubs exist. You might wanna look into the many ugly reasons as to why in their entirety. It goes beyond corruption and weighs into out right incompetence... much like the subprime mess is doing with the Republican party to this day. This thread, in truth, barely scratches the surface.

Gwest, a little tid-bit on

Gwest, a little tid-bit on the Catholic Left. The ideological nihilist Left is ignoring the anniversary, naturally:

Anarcho-Catholicism: Dorothy Day's Day Has Come
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joshua_s_071127_anarcho_catholicism_3a.htm

I used to light candles for her

On the 29th of November every year nightbloom.

I'm not sure her faith in the record of the Church as the defender and supporter of 'family values' would be as uncritical today as it was while she was alive.

There's a nun from LA who lives in a Tijuana jail. Her name is Mary Clark.

I'm actually pretty impressed with her chances of being elevated to sainthood - when she dies.

But in truth, I'll take her alive for a few more years - more good will come of it.

We can't assume that. Her

We can't assume that. Her movement is still going strong.

http://www.catholicworker.org/

Don't you find the silence on the liberal-left deafening? What are they afraid of? We have to rely on maverick bloggers for this kind of coverage.

It was an excellently written article, btw, by a well-known blogger based in South Korea http://orientem.blogspot.com/

I'm kinda curious what Dorothy Day made of liberation theology.

Some other links along the same lines, of possible interest:

Christian Anarchism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

Catholic social teaching
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching

Brain just proved my point

Thanks for the anti-Mulroney rant Brain, it just proves my point. Since you have listed in nefarious detail all of his dastardly deeds, (including the war in Iraq???), there isn't much left to say except for good luck with the proof part.

Oh and by the way, the NDP aren't even close to getting power in Canada, so you have a long life of ranting aimlessly ahead of you. may the force be with you!

A lot of things are unknowable - nb

You 'assume' what works for you and I'll lean a different way, I guess... But do do a little due dilligence on Sr Mary Clark ..I think you'll be impressed too - and I'm still hopin' she'll be kickin' around for a few more years.

I find the sum total of the amount of good done by so-called Saints pales a lot in comparison with the good works of living, breathing sinners in the here and now.

RCMP murderer

Cont. Paul Koester gets off scott free with cold blooded murder of Ian Bush. Why am I not surprised the ciminal gang called the RCMP would protect their own and disregard the evidence. They ignored the blood spatter experts testimony that the official story didn`t stand up but still the cold blooded murderer is still on the job. Better watch out citizens of Williams Lake any one of you could be next.
All good members of the force should be ashamed to show their faces in public, if they do not turf these lowlife swine murderes from their midst they all deserve to be spat on and told by all citizens they no longer have any authority over we the citizens that hire them to protect us not execute us at their whim. I am totally disgusted with their criminal behavoir

Some people

can be very good at looking after other people - like Mary Clark, like Dorothy Day, like Vanier, like Tommy Douglas.

Other people are very, very good at looking after themselves, like Mulroney, like Harper, like MacKay, like Karlheinz Schreiber, and many more.

The works of the first group are usually denigrated as unimportant, inefficient, unwanted, non-productive, and Roget lists a lot more synonyms as well.

The second group, regrettably, draws the admiration of the crowd, but thankfully shows the clay feet of false pretenses if one looks carefully.

Not every onlooker has the good vision to perceive the falsity, and so we have 'debates.'

Gwest, then you concede that

Gwest, then you concede that anything published on the subject here on this website is bound to be a lopsided hit-job which ignores all that other stuff in favour of the usual litany (i.e. the inquisition, bad popes, and Adolf Hilter).

Hardly!

What I said was that I'm more impressed by the work of living breathing human beings in caring for and about their fellow human beings than believing in the intercession of dead people who have been, by means of a process not all that different from sympathetic magic, turned into so-called Saints.

Surely, that explanation wasn't necessary - it was entirely clear from what I wrote.

In other words, I'm much more interested with the work people actually do than the institutions that try to take credit for it.

Clear enough! They can assign blame or credit as suits them - I couldn't really care less if the results aren't there.

I don't believe in heroes either.

more on Schreiber/Mulroney

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20071129%2fschreiber_court_071130

Please note the statement toward the end of this report from Schreiber's lawyer...

This bit

Schreiber's next step will be to push for bail.

"From the time that we filed in the Supreme Court of Canada, he could well have sought bail... and he will seek bail," said Greenspan.

Greenspan said he will seek bail for Schreiber with the Department of Justice.

"If they do not consent then I will seek bail in court," he said.

Greenspan also said that in any other case a stay would have been automatic.

"I think there are people in Ottawa who are in power would like to get rid of him," he said.

Despite Prime Minister Stephen Harper's call for a public inquiry, "the minister of justice (Rob Nicholson) has done everything in his power to get Mr. Schreiber out of here before that inquiry and that makes no sense," said Greenspan.

He said it looked like the government was making a concerted effort to appear like they want a public inquiry while what they really want is to send Schreiber back to Germany.

bolding is mine!