Suzuki is a Fraud

Give me a break. Severn Cullis Suzuki and her father represent the great Canadian hypocrisy and a huge fraud deprecated on Canadians.

Firstly, to answer the question above, Canadians can only export raw logs because they do not have the manufacturing ability to add value to this product in the current environment. Manufacturing is a diminishing skill in this country. The Japanese and Koreans beat you guys at it and the Chinese are finishing you off. Years of militant unionism and a sense of welfare self-entitlement has driven Canadian manufacturing offshore. Heck, even the Americans do a better job.

Severn Suzuki graduated from Yale, an elite private US college funded by major US corporations. Now she is talking about asking average Canadians to make a sacrifice for the environment? She benefited from an education funded by Exxon, Mobil and General Motors!

She proposes policies that would kill the working families of this country. Families who could never afford to send their daughters to Yale.

And David Suzuki? He's made a fortune being an enviro-media star. He never has to feel the losing end of environmental regulations that causes unemployment.

So these limousine liberals should think twice before taking jobs from other people.

unions, eh?

"Years of militant unionism and a sense of welfare self-entitlement has driven Canadian manufacturing offshore."

Actually, I don't think so. Not because I have any particular veneration for unions, only to the point that it's better to deal with organized than unorganized labour. But I think that industry in this country may have been driven elsehwere, because we dont, sorry for the broken record syndrome, set quality before quantity. In fact, there are people here, in all walks of life, who wouldn't know quality if it walked up and bit them. And, since the productivity is not something we can compete on, not having the required self-destrucive mindset, and nobody in their right mind want to compete on price and work conditions with Hong Kong (if they treat their customers with poison, how are they not dealing with their staff?), it then remains that quality is the only thing we can compete on. But every time somebody makes something of quality here (the Avro Arrow comes to mind), it gets quickly buried so we wont threaten the fragile neighbours to the South. They are better than we are? duh - when they are allowed by us to repeatedly rig the game.
Ed Deak has made the point before, that it now pays to buy used clothes and shoes and other daily goods, simply because they stay in one piece longer than some stuff you buy new today. There seems to be LOTS of room to compete on quality. When do we get started?

And one more thing

Hey, Bobby Peru, I neglected to say I am in total agreement with the rest of your post. If environmental protection just slides into being another snobbish pursuit and rankist religion, we're no better off. Only intelligent solutions that can realistically inspire participation from everyone should be entertained.

Well Bobby

If Suzuki was a bearded woodsman living off the land without a penny to his name,talking about the damage to the environment, you would afford him credibility and your respect. Yeah. Sure!

Who's the hypocrite?

So Dorothy.

I don't disagree with you but are you suggesting that you agree with Bobby Peru to whom my response was directed.

I do and I don't

OK, sorry. I've never been any good at talking only when spoken to...

No, I do not agree with calling people swindlers and frauds without better evidence of what actually goes on in their minds. What I tried to say in my two postings on this was that I could agree with the general direction Bobby P was coming from, when he pointed out, that the Suzukis are not necessarly in the same economic boat as everyone they might be proposing to speak to. It is perhaps not directly their limitation, but people who get sold on their evangelium through third parties should be aware that 'environmentalism' is now a multi-miliion dollar industry with its own PR and all, and some entrepreneurial types think the possibilities are endless. Time will show whether the Suzuki family will let itself be used or will get off the express-train.

I then proceeded to explain, why I think academic types may be overrated as gurus on dirt, quite my own thoughts on that.

Hopes this clears it up

Fraud?

Fraud? Hardly, but I know why Bobby Peru is so wild at heart and believes his statement to be true.

Fraud would imply that The Suzuki Foundation has done something to intentionally fool you, plus, they did so with the express intent of causing harm and for personal gain, but that is not the case here.

Unless you have had direct experience in promoting a cause that is global in nature, or if you did quite a bit of thorough research, you will not be able to understand the circumstances one would have to manage.

Canadians have a narcissistic vision of how they affect the world. When you travel globally on business you soon realize that we don't command as much respect or have as much impact as you think. Don't listen to local mainstream news media, especially in Vancouver. They coddle the public irresponsibly.

Is The Suzuki Foundation behind the times respective of communication strategies, and do they "appear" deceptive to the uninitiated, yes, but fraud, no.

Like many, they are caught between a rock and a hard place, which in this circumstance just happens to be a tree.

How do you fix this misconception some people here have of you?

Don't feel intimidated and explain your political motivations more clearly so we understand.

This thread is an opportunity for Severn to engage us and explain why she, and her family (extended too), do what they do, and an opportunity to tell us how difficult it really is to preach to the world from a Canadian pulpit.

I hope she consults with her father, and then has a conversation with us here.

I would truly like to hear what a young Yale graduate who has raised in such a progressive family has to say about the saving of trees.

We may challenge you, and you may have to address issues that, from a PR perspective, were verboten in the past, but no one has a choice regarding how communication evolves. We play by today's rules here.

Get in the game of transparency.

Good point ME2

I always wondered about the motivation of enviros who had the appearance of very spartan life styles. Some may have chosen that path and therefore had credibility when the spoke of environmental degradation but there were others who seemed content not to work, or they were on welfare and it seemed that anyone who had achieved a measure of success was the enemy. There are hypocrites at both ends. My thinking is that it is easy being an environmentalist if you have nothing. It is just as easy if you have lots. Suzuki is credible and the fact that he his wealthy is irrelevant.

It is all about the truth of the message and how appreciative you are of what you are asking the other guy to give up.

Since all this started with a vitriolic rant by Bobby Peru, who has since faded from the scene, I asked the question, "Who is the hypocrite?." Enough said.

And, isn't it ironic

Moreover, how is it that someone like Severn Cullis Suzuki; who decides to dedicate her efforts and talents as an educated young person to saving or preserving public values and assets like the environment; should attract such hostility as Bobby the P and other ingrates display here, while captains of commerce and industry (lets use Peter Munk as an example) spend their careers raping that same environment and pillaging its values for their own profit will end up being lionized and having academic chairs named in their honour?

We truly live in a reciprocal world - to riff a little on Madonna.

Gratefulness and such

"..how is it that someone like Severn Cullis Suzuki; who decides to dedicate her efforts and talents as an educated young person to saving or preserving public values and assets like the environment; should attract such hostility as Bobby the P and other ingrates display here.."

Put it down to the perversity of human nature. People who dedicate themselves had better do so because they believe in the cause, and not for the gratitude they will receive. It may very easily be nil. What goes around does come around, but don't go holding your breath: The mills of God grindeth slow indeed, but, alas, exceedingly small.

It also should be remembered, that it isn't only what you do, but equally the way you do it, and, if I read between the lines of the writings of 'ingrates', I think this is where there is a grievance. I have a feeling, that some parties hear a jarring note maybe in the delivery:

"All parents should be able to comfort their children at night by assuring them that everything's going to be all right."

You can't help asking what planet indeed this 'child' grew up on. The reassurance cannot, and never could, lie in 'everything going to be all right.' People who tell their children that are lying. What we need to say is that some thing are not working well, and others are downright rotten, but if we work hard we can improve things, and we believe we will be equal to the task. Delivering a perfect world - sorry no parent has ever been able to do that. At least there are no saber-toothed tigers in the one we're passing on - and if you think that's a shame, I know you're a pampered prince or princess, who would never have to confront the wilderness unaided by layers of technology and all kinds of minions.

I think this is where there may be a cognitive gap between this young lady and her audience. If you don't think the delivery is important, look at the impressive array of studies in communication done down through the ages.

I don't know if Mr. Munk particularly deserves our hatred, and why he gets singled out. He is a gold-miner. Do you own any piece of gold? Sure you do. You have a computer, or I wouldn't be meeting you here. There is gold in the plugs if they're a decent quality. So what right have you to spew disdain at this man? He delivers what you are making use of. If you don't like his methods, stop buying the product. Money talks, nothing else does to people who are in business.

Hope this helps to clarify things...

dorothy

EDITED TO REMOVE PERSONAL INSULT OF ANOTHER COMMENTER -- NOT ALLOWED UNDER TYEE FORUM RULES. TYEE MODERATOR

peter munk was only the first example that came to mind

I could have chosen any one of dozens of others. If his company hadn't pillaged and poisoned much of the land in countries where he got the gold which made his fortune I wouldn't have named him. Of course, gold is necessary for some industrial and technical uses but I think it can be acquired in ways that do not cause the degradation and human misery sometimes associated with its mining and smelting. It is possible to behave ethically - and not just relative to the country you call your home.

Whatever Ms Suzuki has or hasn't done, she at least deserves a lifetime to do it in before she's accused of anything; especially fraud and being an elitist because she got an undergraduate degree at Yale: That was the source of the irony. She also happens to have a Master’s degree from the University of Victoria. What does ‘that’ make her? An idiot?

The point I was making referred to Bobby Peru specifically but there are certainly plenty of others who seem ready to climb on and condemn Ms Suzuki at this early stage in her career.

Of course, she has a lot to learn but from my point of view at least, she seems to have understood the interconnectedness of life and the health of the environment in a way that Peter Munk - despite his enormous donations to the University of Toronto - has completely missed.

By the way Dorothy, I’m curious why you’d like to see an interview here in Tyee with Daniel Igali.

By the way

I don't think I said Peter Munk deserves anyone's hatred. I just said I thought it was ironic that he was being singled out for praise.

I certainly don't hate him...

Never fading away

Oh no, I haven't faded away, I've been carefully reading all of your views and responses. I did not mean to provoke for the sake of provocation although I am intellectually 'wild at heart.'

And I wasn't using the word 'fraud' in the legal sense; I was using it in the rhetorical sense.

Everyone should think carefully about the policies environmentalists - especially the radical ones are proposal in response to global warming. Indeed, the global warming movement behaves like the Catholic Church did in response to blasphemers during the Inquisition. Alot of these policies have little to no consideration to whom they will hurt the most- working and middle class families. After all, George Clooney can afford to buy a few Prius' to ameliorate his habit for flying on private jets. But, can the man or woman who runs his/her own plumbing business afford to replace the gas guzzling van?

People like Suzuki (father and daughter) are advocating policies which could cause great hardship to people who work in industry or the oil fields. And substantially raise the cost of living for the rest of us. And, they are advocating lifestyles which alot of people are not interested in. Raising environmental awareness is one thing- in fact, that is David Suzuki's biggest accomplishment. But advocating or supporting policies puts them in an unobjective arena and open to criticism. In fact, they are like 21st century Quakers.

No, Severn-Suzuki attended a private, elite, US college- Yale- which is privately funded by some of the biggest companies and wealthiest people in history. John Rockefeller is one of Yales's biggest donors. UVic is largely govt funded. Sorry, you can't trash the oil companies and then benefit from a college they directly funded. It's too close to home.

Don't ever think the environmental awareness business is holy and beyond it's own inbuilt tendencies to corruption.

And another poster is correct- Canadians living in Canada are brainwashed by the govt and media into believing their own sanctimony. Once you live outside Canada you'll find out that we are neither rich or powerful enough to make a big difference. All the rampant anti-Americanism doesn't dispel the fact that Americans donate far more to charity than Canadians. Or that George Bush has almost tripled the US' contribution to alleviating AIDS in Africa- even Bono and Geldof applaud him on this. Not that I am an ardent Bush fan, but we have make observations that even hurt us if you want begin to see some semblance of truth.

Munks Barrick Gold

Palast: George Bush’s gold mining company Barrick Gold, an evil little company. I reported that when it’s gold mining properties in Africa were cleared, 50 gold miners were buried alive.

The Alibi: George Bush Sr.? He had a big stake in the company?

Palast: Bush Sr. and his advisor got paid the big bucks by this gold mining company out of Canada. The reason you haven’t read anything about this company is because every time a reporter wants to write about the story, their editors get threatening letters from lawyers. It’s cheaper just to can the story.

Greg Palast

Maybe Daniel Igali can comment on the trees in Tanzania

And so good that little George is giving money to Africa for AIDS..and applauded by Sir Bob and Sir Bono at that!

What you are saying Bobby Poo is "I am the truth" and "baby the truth hurts"???
full:
http://www.gregpalast.com/bush-sr-mining-company-goes-for-the-gold-in-chile/

Thanks dorothy

I could never quite understand Daniel Igali's choice of party affiliation when he (tried) to enter politics. I did always find it a certain irony that he was essentially on his own until he won the gold medal and that, even afterward, he never seemed to get the kind of support and funding that one might have expected. Last I heard of him his residence in Nigeria had been burgled while he was there in connection to a school he'd helped build and finance.

There's a Bob Dylan song that brings the immigrant experience to mind. I wonder if you've ever heard it:

I pity the poor immigrant
Who wishes he would've stayed home,
Who uses all his power to do evil
But in the end is always left so alone.
That man whom with his fingers cheats
And who lies with ev'ry breath,
Who passionately hates his life
And likewise, fears his death.

I pity the poor immigrant
Whose strength is spent in vain,
Whose heaven is like Ironsides,
Whose tears are like rain,
Who eats but is not satisfied,
Who hears but does not see,
Who falls in love with wealth itself
And turns his back on me.

I pity the poor immigrant
Who tramples through the mud,
Who fills his mouth with laughing
And who builds his town with blood,
Whose visions in the final end
Must shatter like the glass.
I pity the poor immigrant
When his gladness comes to pass.

I know that's not a real parallel for Igali's experience, but, there must always be a certain confusion for folks like him torn between two solitudes.

By the way, Igali's village is in the Niger Delta - I'm not sure what that means relative to trees but it is a very poor place. (the following is from a description I found somewhere or other.

It should not be. The Niger Delta is oil-rich and Nigeria is the world's eighth-largest oil exporter. What fuels the poverty is greed, corruption and political turmoil. And poverty has ignited an increasingly militant movement backed by villagers demanding a share of the wealth.

Bobby the P

Perhaps you'd care to spend a little time contemplating this:

Charity rejects US aid

NAIROBI: An international aid group has turned away $46 million in funding from the US government, arguing the way American food aid is distributed hurts poor farmers.

CARE said wheat donated by the US government and sold by charities to fund anti-poverty programmes destroys local agriculture by dumping low priced crops on the market and local farmers cannot compete. Other expert say they share CARE's concerns, but say different kinds of help suit different situations.

"We are not against emergency food aid for things like drought and famine," CARE's Atlanta-based spokeswoman Alina Labrada, said yesterday, adding the process did not help those who consistently went hungry. "They are being hurt instead of helped by this mechanism."

Labrada said it was critical to push through policy reforms while the US legislature was debating the Farm Bill, which is reauthorised every five years. CARE decided to phase out grain donations in 2005, but the current debate over the bill has focused attention on their decision.

CARE has said it will totally phase out the programme by 2009, and seek to replace the lost funds by seeking more cash donors. [from the Gulf Daily News (Bahrain)] 17 August 2007

You can find a similar story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6950886.stm

Or, if you're actually interested in learning something rather than idly sniping at people based upon where they went to university, you might want to take the time to read this and work on an understanding of what's wrong with America's methodology.

http://www.tradeobservatory.org/library.cfm?refid=73512

Nothing anti-American about that: I'd hasten to add however that Canada has, at least, begun to reject the dead end of tied aid and move to a locally sourced supply model.

I'm sure the many excellent and independent academics who've graduated from Yale University will be surprised to know that they are in the pocket of the Rockefeller foundation by the way. I happen to know a couple of them - I think your opinions of their alma mater will make for an interesting laugh the next time I see them for drinks.

You should talk to David Horowitz - he thinks American Academia, public and private, is the breeding ground of pinkos and reds. He'll be oh so pleased to hear it ain't so.

Podcast feed ?

If this is going to be an ongoing series, why can't we subscribe to an RSS feed to the audio (aka, a podcast) ?

Doesn't need to be through iTunes or anything, but I don't think the Tyee loses a single page view my me receiving audio-interviews automatically through subscription.

Yale ?

So Bobby P,

Does the fact she's now doing an MA at UVIC - a public university - change your charges of elitism ?

The fact is most higher education is an elite privilege that most human beings can only dream of, regardless if it's a private Ivy league or public institution. Does that mean we should charge individuals lucky enough to attend these institutions as being elitist hacks ? What if she went on a full scholarship ? Still just as bad ?

As other people have commented, you blast her for 'recklessly' attacking industry .... yet criticize her choice of university for its corporate affiliations. How about some consistency?

BP, did you even listen to the interview ? How about discussing what you think about that, and not where she went to school .

good!

"The fact is most higher education is an elite privilege that most human beings can only dream of"

Thank you for pointing this out! This should put a cork in the widely voiced assumption, that if you haven't got your skills inside those halls, you're an abject failure. Yet, I don't hear this country, or any other, screaming for more Science professors, but for more people who can screw a light bulb into place without breaking it or killing themselves, which might actually serve to get us the coveted competitive industry.

Most people shouldn't get a 'higher' education or dream of one, they should go about acquiring some of all these practical skills we really need, but the training for which is scarce indeed, and which most people do not want to acquire, because such honest professions have not got enough snob appeal.

One partial remedy is to bring to bear on the privileged elites the demand that they curb their flapping lips and live up to the responsibility entailed with the privilege they were given, instead of letting them think they can just take their privilege and run with it. No man is an island onto himself.

I'm even more upset

You shouldn't have challenged me to listen to Severn-Suzuki's interview because it met my expectations. She is a naive, self-righteous, sanctimonious graduate student who has no idea of what it is like to make a living in the real world.

Hearing the sychophantic interviewer describe her as being from 'the first family' of Canadian environmentalists smacks of a Canadian liberal left version of elitism. You're no better than the people on the right you vilify. Do you think she would have spoken in front of world leaders at age 12 if her dad wasn't David Suzuki?

And then hearing her say that her studies in the US and making American friends showed her 'that all Americans weren't like George Bush' - showed me how ignorant and smug she really is. You mean you needed to go to Yale - where George Bush, Al Gore and John Kerry graduated to understand this? Look who is living in a world of convenient stereotypes.

Maybe if she looked to the left and right of her in class she would find classmates who are sons and daughters of the heads of Exxon, GM, Weyerhauser, Ford and Enron? Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

But I will.

Working class Canadians would love to send their kids to an expensive college like Yale, but we don't have an enviro-media superstar dad who can afford to do this in a green way. Instead, I have to rape the land with activities like construction and factories to afford this. Why should I listen to Suzuki if I want to make the money to send my kid to Yale?

So don't complain about the corporate elite when you have your own enviro elite which clogs up public discourse with it's own hypocrisy.

Bobby Peru has a point

No one has to listen to Severn and believe her unconditionally.

Instead of criticizing how she learned what she knows, focus more on what she is saying - or not saying.

When Severn refuses to address your legitimate comments it speaks volumes.

If celebrities want to use the internet to promote their agendas they have to play by "new media" rules, not conventions brought forward from newspapers or television. New media is a two way street.

For example, I asked earlier why The Suzuki Foundation is not following through with "their" claim that the Hydrogen Highway is a scam. Severn had an opportunity to answer, but chose to ignore me. Her silence should tell you something.

The Hydrogen Highway is a program promoted by the Olympics to convince naive people that 2010 is a good environmental neighbor. We know from documented reports from all past Games, that the first thing to get cut is funding for environmental issues. For example, they cut billions from the Salt Lake City environmental budget and then clear cut trees in their Wasatch Mountains to make parking lots for the 2002 Games.

If Severn won't fill us in, then let me offer a suggestion as to why she is ignoring this simple question.

My theory Bobby P, is that The Vancouver Sun, through their own admission last June is now paid to officially boost the Olympics, while several months ago Dr. Suzuki joined forces with The Sun to promote Green issues. The Sun needed to align with Suzuki to improve their poor credibility, and Suzuki had to align with The Sun because he thought it would extend his reach into the community. They both benefit, but for different reasons.

Here's where it gets interesting; Dr. Suzuki thinks 2010 a scam, even though his new partner, The Sun is a paid Olympics booster.

One thinks 2010 is great for our region because they are being very well paid to say so, while the other thinks it is a bad thing for our community, because the Olympics has a horrible environmental record. Who do you believe?

Both are hoping we won't notice that they sit at opposite ends of the spectrum because then they won't have to talk about their partnership in forums like this.

I'd like to know what Severn thinks about the Hydrogen Highway campaign, but even more, I'd like to know why her family is running away from the Olympics environmental issue instead of addressing it head on.

VANOC brought the fight right to your front door. You have an opportunity to use your vast education and family experience to educate our community about what is really happening here environmentally respective of the Olympics, but instead you run the other way. While Vancouver is being mauled, and the IOC literally pisses in your backyard, you are trekking in Tasmania.

Maybe that's why Bobby P is so pissed off.

Read more here about Dr. Suzuki’s 2010 involvement.

http://www.olyblog.com/06/CaseStudyS06012006.shtml

http://www.olyblog.com/f/06/EagleridgeF04112006.shtml

Enviro-royalty

Working Memory- you used a very specific issue to come around to addressing the naggin hypocrisy that I was thrashing at. But you nailed it with a very specific issue.

Simply stated, Suzuki is in the business of self-promotion, which in turn promotes his TV shows, documentaries and books. Being a guest editor of the Vancouver Sun provides him with a better profile than the white noise in the internet. Of course, he can't bite the Sun for it's support of the Olympics. Nor can Suzuki cut to the heart of the issue- that the Olympics is draining valuable community resources.

The Sun is cool if Suzuki talks about saving trees, recycling and composting. All innocuous, every man, crunchy granola stuff that diverts attentions from the real issue - misallocation of public resources.

And Severn talks like some naif about fluffy trees while the interviewer treats her like she's from the Royal Family. She makes vacuous remarks about trees- of course, who doesn't love trees? I thought enviro types were far too proletarian to introduce caste and class into their ranks but I was wrong. What makes Severn Suzuki so special and gives her the right to lecture me about my lifestyle?

Why should we treat her like she's special? Why should we defer to her judgement when she isn't demonstrating any or making any intelligent remarks?

If Severn Suzuki wants to be a public figure then she ought to be prepared to be attacked. Instead, we have a fluffy interview that leads nowhere. Hey, no one forced her to take the pulpit and if this is her best performance she ought to stick to partying like other grad students.

She has no moral suasion to tell us how to live our lives or to say she is a self appointed saviour of the environment. She is no better than Madonna braying about global warming while flying on her own jet.

BP

Oh Bob,

I wasn't challenging you to listen to the podcast, it was just a question ! Glad you enjoyed it, I thought it was a little boring personally, but that's mostly the interviewers fault IMO.

The Suzuki's do tend to bring strong opinions with people, but I think we can all agree that's better than just being braindead tee-vee addicted zombies.

Dorthy:

A university degree and skills training aren't mutually exclusive things ! I know pently of people who have graduated from university with a BA/BSc who then go to BCIT to acquire more marketable skills.

Likewise, some of my university classmates had spent 10 years making decent money using their hands but didn't want to do that for their entire lives. Neither should feel regret for their respective decisions.

Back to BP's point:

Somehow I doubt that many sons and daughters of the Fortune 500 went to Yale to study ecology and evolutionary biology ... but if SCS had these as classmates she has a better vantagepoint than most on how our system of crony capitalism really works (one big happy circle jerk).

Meritocracy goes both ways; criticize Severn all you want, just base it on her words/actions and not who her father or the school she attended.

And of course

There would need to be a TILMA exemption from the beginning or some deep-pocketed Albertan would just stride over the horizon and take over and the craziness would start all over again.

Of course Severn knows where

Of course Severn knows where money comes from - big US foundations like the Packard Foundation who shovel hundreds of thousands of dollars to the likes of Suzuki, Greenpeace and any other so called environmentalists.

This allows them to finance their attacks on big bad industries in BC like forestry, which also happen to employ tens of thousands of people.

A Home!

Trees are a home to me (one attribute of many), and 'we' are fouling our home!

Unless we ditch the growth policy, or mantra,(sustainable development allows for 5 percent GDP growth per year???!!!!) our 'forest' or home will be fouled.

I imagine one day that humans and their behaviour on Earth will be a lesson to all other 'intelligent' species!!

Does recycling have an impact if in year one you make 100 margerine tubs; all 100 are recycled and in year two you make and sell 200 margerine tubs? Has recycling margerine tubs really made a difference? (insert any recyclable into the question!)

Unless 'we' do more with less 'we' (the species any way - Earth will go on despite what 'we' do!) will be recycled off the planet!

better, greener lifestyles

George Monbiot

full:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=13373

what indeed

"It's easy: just make your own bread, butter, cheese, jam, chutneys and pickles, keep a milking cow, a few pigs, goats, geese, ducks, chickens, beehives, gardens and orchards. Well, what are you waiting for?"

The crash, of course, where 'jobs' will be history, and only those who had everything ready for their very own Waco-compound will survive (including the ammo).

No, seriously. We will have to go further back than we think. Tubs for margarine??Really insane when we think about it! When I was a very young kid back in my old country, you could still bring your own jug for milk and have it filled from the big thing in the corner of the dairy-outlet. Pandemics are only a scare now, because we are wildly overcrowded, not to mention less clean and sensible in general. Can't set the clock back? I think it's that or Ragnarok. Just my opinion, of course. Everyone is entitled to their own.

Ragnarok

Ragnarok..as good an opinion as any..probably better `n most.

Go back? The majority as they have to and only then in all probability...some never will.
Some are already there..and others are
preparing..

When I was a young kid we had chickens , pigs.. a goat..I was raised on goats milk and delivered any surplus to the neighbour...turkeys for a time..Huge vegetable garden..fruit trees planted for early through late fall fruit...3 types of apple grafted as one tree...transparent, gravenstein and spys.
Species of apple you`ll not find easily now..Wolfriver, Northern Spy, Blenheim orange, wine saps in late fall. Always plentiful.. organic ..no spraying mostly.
The milkman brought milk (cream at the top) in glass bottles with little red tokens..the iceman with great big tongs and the huge blocks of ice for the icebox..precursor to the ice cream man..a crowd of barefooted waifs in summer would crowd around and he`d quickly and expertly chip several shards of the beautiful shiny ice for us with his pick.. to roll smooth in our grimy little hands and suck on.. feeling the cold and comparing shapes and imagining little ice creatures formed from the melting pieces.

Cherries..Byng, Queen Anne, Montmorencey for cooking ,wild choke cherries..

Plums in variety, pears always hugely abundant and all canned for the winter.

Suggestion for an INTERVIEW... Ralph Kelman , artist extra-

ordinaire.., ( light artist in his earlier incarnation), then became TREE ARTIST.

His credentials..: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=ralph+kelman+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=, can be found by googling his name... RALPH KELMAN.

I recall his exploits years ago when he tracked down some of the rarest and largest trees on the Pacific Coast. He also impressed me one day when he came up with the tallest tree in Canada..( can't recall which variety ).. but what stuck in my memory was that he'd located this specific tree in our very own backyard.., here in the FOREST of the COQUITLAM's..,

Why I believe he should be interviewed is that he became intrigued about the REGION that I live in, and furthermore accepted my invitation to explore the very idea that this CITY of COQUITLAM.., had a certain trait/signature written all over it.

I'd become convinced that the URBAN FOREST within this particular City was quite unique and I invited a ''Tree Artist'' TO confirm my hunch that this was one of the defining elements of that particular CITY*..,

An identity signature that would be confirmed when this individual (Ralph Kelman).., focused on the different FOREST ECOSYSTEMS., and realised that there was a very clear case to be made for THE CITY OF TREES.( Coquitlam)., to be recognised as such.

REMEMBER this was before we ever took in the very existence of RIVERVIEW LANDS themselves., we were concentrating on the very large territory of COQUITLAM itself, and came away fascinated by the obvious forested canvas backdrop of this CITY.

With all of the subsequent declarations that were made AFTER our exploration, *( about 2 weeks later ,I would say , came the announcement from Victoria , as per their interest in possibly developing this UNIQUE SITE*..

Hence , what we have in the making here,with an in depth INTERVIEW.., is a HUMAN SETTLEMENT ISSUE.., as per what TREES and FOREST actually mean to a CITY and I might add a community that is indeed at it's moment of IDENTITY.*..

( continued.... )

Hence , an EXPLORATION and a DISCOVERY of what this particular '

Hence , an EXPLORATION and a DISCOVERY of what this particular '' TREE ARTIST '' found within my region.., is not only warranted but needed. And I can't think of a better medium - at this moment - then THE TYEE.. itself.,

for this particular region in many ways encompasses the challenges of any and most URBAN CITY in this province.., and I truly believe that it has something to offer ( IT'S STORY). to the larger PUBLIC.

Thanks for your consideration on these MINDS and MATTERS.,

Village,

P.S.. I might add that the local paper ( Tri-City News..) is reflecting on questions of identity and in particular HISTORY.. these days..,hence , re-inforcing my thoughts of how important is IDENTITY.., in the creation act of COMMUNITY*. ( sense of place, sense of belonging and sense of identity itself*, ) emerging as an important question..

The COLUMN in question is entitled.. : FINDING HISTORY IN THE SUBURBS A TOUGH JOB.

http://www.tricitynews.com/ (very interesting read.., I encourage one and all to have a look* ) .

Other interesting related matters ( and minds ).. are these following letters to the paper .

FACE TO FACE: Stick with the city’s vision
I love the Riverview lands. (Aug 19 2007)

FACE TO FACE: Allow market housing on site
Everyone should know by now that money doesn’t grow on trees, even the lovely and varied ones on the Riverview lands in Coquitlam. (Aug 19 2007) ,

AND IN THE MOST RECENT PUBLICATION OF THE TRI-CITY NEWS.., 3 very significant communications made by CITIZENS of not only Coquitlam but clearly Citizens of THE REGION itself.

For those who are interested in grounded and local matters and minds* that are struggling with trying to hold on to a sense of place, sense of belonging , and sense of identity itself..,I highly recommend following this STORY*.., ,

Village

your writing would be so much more enjoyable to read if you would lose the capital thing.

Maybe use italics..so much more gentle.
I`ve taken to reading only the capitals part of your essays..kind of a BEBOP prosody..maybe I`m a uni tasker...but I find the use of capitals really tears apart the flow a real interruption the capitals.
Maybe I`m not a capitalist..and you`re just a now and then one.

Ralph Kelman is a good idea.

Testing your suggestion..., as to the idea of interviewing Ralph

KELMAN.. artist extra-ordinaire.., ( light artist in his earlier incarnation), then became TREE ARTIST.
His credentials..: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=ralph+kelman+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=, can be found by googling his name... RALPH KELMAN.
I recall his exploits years ago when he tracked down some of the rarest and largest trees on the Pacific Coast. He also impressed me one day when he came up with the tallest tree in Canada..( can't recall which variety ).. but what stuck in my memory was that he'd located this specific tree in our very own backyard.., here in the FOREST of the COQUITLAM's..,

Why I believe he should be interviewed is that he became intrigued about the REGION that I live in, and furthermore accepted my invitation to explore the very idea that this CITY of COQUITLAM.., had a certain trait/signature written all over it.

I'd become convinced that the URBAN FOREST within this particular City was quite unique and I invited a ''Tree Artist'' TO confirm my hunch that this was one of the defining elements of that particular CITY*..,

An identity signature that would be confirmed when this individual (Ralph Kelman).., focused on the different FOREST ECOSYSTEMS., and realised that there was a very clear case to be made for THE CITY OF TREES.( Coquitlam)., to be recognised as such.

REMEMBER this was before we ever took in the very existence of RIVERVIEW LANDS themselves., we were concentrating on the very large territory of COQUITLAM itself, and came away fascinated by the obvious forested canvas backdrop of this CITY.

With all of the subsequent declarations that were made AFTER our exploration, *( about 2 weeks later ,I would say , came the announcement from Victoria , as per their interest in possibly developing this UNIQUE SITE*..

Hence , what we have in the making here,with an in depth INTERVIEW.., is a HUMAN SETTLEMENT ISSUE.., as per what TREES and FOREST actually mean to a CITY and I might add a community that is indeed at it's moment of IDENTITY.*..

( continued.... )

and without the Capital..., let's see what that looks like..

Hence , an [i]exploration[/i] and a discovery of what this particular '' Tree Artist '' found within my region.., is not only warranted but needed. And I can't think of a better medium - at this moment - then The Tyee.. itself.,

for this particular region in many ways encompasses the challenges of any and most Urban Cities in this province.., and I truly believe that it has something to offer (It's Story !). to the larger Public .

Thanks for your consideration on these Minds and Matters.,

Village,

P.S.. I might add that the local paper ( Tri-City News..) is reflecting on questions of identity and in particular History.. these days..,hence , re-inforcing my thoughts of how important is Identity.., in the creation act of Community*. ( sense of place, sense of belonging and sense of identity itself*, ) emerging as an important question..

The Column in question is entitled.. : FINDING HISTORY IN THE SUBURBS A TOUGH JOB.

www.tricitynews.com/ (very interesting read.., I encourage one and all to have a look* ) .

Other interesting related matters ( and minds ).. are these following letters to the paper .

FACE TO FACE: Stick with the city’s vision
I love the Riverview lands. (Aug 19 2007)

FACE TO FACE: Allow market housing on site
Everyone should know by now that money doesn’t grow on trees, even the lovely and varied ones on the Riverview lands in Coquitlam. (Aug 19 2007) ,

AND IN THE MOST RECENT PUBLICATION OF THE TRI-CITY NEWS.., 3 very significant communications made by Citizens of not only Coquitlam but clearly Citizens of The Region itself.

For those who are interested in grounded and local matters and minds* that are struggling with trying to hold on to a sense of place, sense of belonging , and sense of identity itself..,I highly recommend following this STORY*.., ,

And so as to the story of seeing the Trees and or the Forest...,

What is critical in this metaphor.., is whether we actually have any sense of the ROOTS..., without which neither Tree nor Forest can exist.

Taking this idea now to being able to see the ''sense of place'' , ''sense of belonging'' and ''sense of identity ''that I speak of.. as per ..
COMMUNITY*.., ,
(*Leaves) one wondering whether we've lost that contact , that connection , really.., of what role Roots themselves play in the making of any Community.

Human Settlements .. and our HABITAT*.. Circa 2001 and beyond..

Did we not have a World Urban Forum recently, and were we not the birthplace of that very idea of dealing with Human Settlements Issues.., right here in Vancouver in 1996?

Fast forward now to 2006.., I attended the WUF in question and what I came away with was the disconnect of that first memory when Vancouver played a pivotal role in the creation of a branch of the UNITED NATIONS.., that was to encourage for decades that followed an attempt at finding solutions to Human Settlement Issues..,

Our Habitat ..,what Buckminster Fuller called our Spaceship Earth.., beckoning once again for us all to pay attention..,

And so in the '' Best Place on Earth'' as this government tells it..,we are undergoing fascinating challenges and what is critical in our actions will be how we've factored the very Ground we all walk on.., as well as the Air we breathe..not to forget , the quality of living that comes with an abundance of clean Air and Water..,(which are clearly reaching ''critical mass '' scenario's as to being able to maintain the standards we've come to accept as an everyday scenario..,

We all know that this part of the world, ( Pacific Coast) and specifically B.C.., within the House called Canada, is undergoing a lot of pressure to absorb the projected growth that is being touted as essential to our maintaining the level of Growth and Standards of living that we enjoy today..
But where does happiness , and good old clean air and clean water get factored in this equation.., ?

Just thinking out loud ..,wondering if we actually can see the root question and answer to the riddle.., of not being able to see Forest nor the Trees.. because we've lost sight of the EARTH itself.., as the one and only Habitat, we really have.

Pied Nu sur la terre Sacrée ( indeed )
Village,

the date should read... 1976*.. as per the first United Nations

Conference held here.. called HABITAT*
, dealing with Human Settlement Issues..,
The very same ones we are grappling with to this very day.

Village,

Poem

the disconnect of that first

memory

will be how we`ve factored the..

very Ground we walk on

clearly reaching critical mass scenarios

But where
does happiness,
and
good
old
clean
air

and
clean water
get factored in
this equation....?

of not being
able...

to see Forest
nor

the Trees

let me clarify

Should read poem for clarinet with trees

Warm puppy? maybe...

Tried to look up ‘happiness’:

blessedness, beatitude, beatification
radiance
bonheur
gladness, gladfulness, gladsomeness
gaiety, merriment
rejoicing
belonging
cheerfulness, blitheness
contentment

Well, it stands to reason, that a word with so many meanings and connotations is practically worthless. Why use it? To shut up those who would gainsay you, in a way I can’t help finding unsportsmanlike. Demand happines, and you end the discourse effectively, for who would deny that? Well I would. Happiness never had a free-standing existence. In fact you could say it never had an existence at all. The best way of describing what most people mean by the word is that it is a sauce that oozes out of right action, so it goes together with that and only together with that. Think and do right action, and happiness will (sometimes) be yours. The other peculiarity is, that it will visit you when it suits it, not when it suits you. It does not come when you call, nor when you know all the answers in the answerbook, nor even when you ‘sacrifice’ something, or a lot. It sneaks up, when you’re slightly out of focus, lays itself on you like the grey elven cloaks the hobbits were gifted with, and like those, it gives you strange gifts of protection and abilities you never dreamed, but then the visit is over, and you will have to remember what it felt like – till next time. True happiness is a glimpse of the Gods, a momentary certainty of the great cosmic truths, which cannot be described in words you can share. That’s why there are so numerous attempts at doing so, all of them failing. Happiness is the exception, the despite-of thing or quality that life also contains, but try to make it into a political football, and it will for sure not visit you for a very, very long time…

An Update ... as per Riverview Lands ..,

A most recent article in the local papers speaks of a fascinating development surrounding this site . And by development , I don't mean the 7,000 market units that has been floated about.

Anyhow.. it is is : found in the COQUITLAM NOW local newspaper.. entitled

Riverview Facebook group grows

Riverview Facebook group grows
Page on social networking site has more than 775 members
Stephen Thomson, Coquitlam NOW
Published: Friday, August 24, 2007

Hundreds of web surfers from across the Lower Mainland are voicing their concerns about the future of the Riverview Hospital grounds on an Internet forum started by a local MLA.

The popular social networking site Facebook.com has become a gathering point for those upset about the proposed development of the historic, 244-acre site in Coquitlam.

Port Coquitlam-Burke Mountain MLA Mike Farnworth created the online group shortly after a July 27 Vancouver Sun article revealed that the provincial housing minister is interested in building several thousand units of market and social housing on the Riverview grounds.

The Riverview Hospital grounds contain buildings ranging in age and style, as well as a collection of rare trees.
NOW files

Email to a friend

Printer friendly
Font: ****As of early Thursday afternoon, the Facebook group had grown to include 778 members, representing a range of ages and places of residence.

"I think it's terrific," Farnworth said in an interview. "I think it's a great way to reach people who quite often you don't reach through traditional media. I think it reaches out a lot to younger people and I've been really, really pleased with the response."

He said the goal of the group is to raise awareness around the Riverview development issue and to encourage people to make their opinions heard.

"It starts off with a couple and the next thing you know, people become aware of it and it just grows exponentially," he said, referring to the number of members connected to the "Protect the Riverview Lands" Facebook group.

The website, which has more than 30 million active users around the world, allows people to post personal profiles, images and connect with others who share similar interests.

To access the site and any of the groups, users must create an account and log in.

(continued .... )

CONTINUED from above.. as per FACEBOOK page and site .*ARTICLE *

The Riverview group page features dozens of photos of the hospital grounds from different seasons and comments from members on a discussion board.

On the page, Port Moody Coun. Karen Rockwell writes, "I was shocked at the attitude of Rich Coleman (the minister of housing) et al in their 'floating' the idea of the densification and inclusion of market housing to 'pay' for mental health services at Riverview, in spite of being fully aware of the wishes of the people of Coquitlam and the work done by the Riverview Lands Task Force. Shame!"

Another member, Sue Haberger, who is also involved with the Riverview Horticultural Centre Society, writes, "It is impossible to build the housing for over 7,000 people on the Riverview site without destroying the heritage landscapes, trees and buildings that define it. Any part of the property sold for market housing is fair game forever.

"It is like selling a piece of Stanley Park to get money for a homeless shelter."

Amy Zywiecki from Coquitlam writes, "I drove through Riverview today on my scooter, and I have to say there is definitely something about that place. Firstly, it feels like you've stepped back in time, and how many places can you go (to) to get that feeling? The buildings there are truly amazing."

On the main page of the site, a message reads, "We believe the future of the Riverview lands should be decided by the residents of Coquitlam and the Tri-Cities -- not by the governments in Victoria and Vancouver."

Since Coleman announced his interest in developing the site, local politicians and community members have expressed their opposition.

The minister has said a consultation process involving the community and local government will take place related to any development plans.

© Coquitlam Now 2007

Village

Thanks for your last post Village.

Interesting NIMBY perspective re Riverview.

Do we save people, trees, or old buildings?

Hmmm ...

I vote for ... trees

no ... people

no ... trees and buildings

no no ... buildings, but only if there are no people in them - same goes for the trees.

Who would have thought that Facebook would be impacting the fate of Coquitlam residents?

As I've noted before , THIS STORY'S GOT LEGS.. as they say...

The fascinating thing about this is that as I was driving in from Abbotsford earlier this morning , and as I was turning on CBC , Rick Cluff early edition, there was mention of this precise story- or at least this phenomena you describe , Working Memory.

Facebook, it would seem did indeed grab the attention of those that do research for that particular program. And from that angle they were able to factor in the RIVERVIEW LAND angle.., ( very interesting times we live in.., ) and as I predicted much earlier in my post...,

THIS STORY'S GOT LEGS.. , ( MEANING , THAT TO GO THE DISTANCE , 1,000 MILES , ONE MUST TAKE THE FIRST STEP. ).. and me thinks that the Trees themselves.., though not having travelled very far from their earliest days within that site, are indeed travelling far and wide..

It must be the winds of time.. and the seeds of reason.., ( and of course the leaves themselves.., offering up a new chapter in the history of this PROVINCE..*) , or so it seems.. should the Government not take heed and pay attention to what is really going on in B.C...,

The message is clear.., and ''green''.
In my books.

P.S. .. Glad you liked the post Working Memory.
Village,